Wow. All I wanted was an updated response regarding the issues many of us have had with the level of culling and relationship decay that Dining Out brought us. That was a little over two months ago. Unless I've missed it, there has been no updated response other than the initial bringing it up at a meeting. Taking the feedback to the team is great, however when there is no further response it's really disheartening. There are times where I feel my concerns just disappear into the ether, never to be seen again.
I'm beginning to get the strong impression that although I'm permitted to voice my unhappiness over the impact a feature has on my game, I better not expect an updated response. Instead of feeling listened to, I feel lectured, which makes me feel like my concerns do not matter one iota.
at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you.
The things that make many players unhappy are just being totally avoided and remaining unanswered (culling? possible world editor? etc) so as long as these things aren't addressed, then yes, many players will remain unhappy and it won't necessarily be their faults.
For me it boils down to the very fact that Maxis calls these people/sites "influencers". Are they supposed to be influencing Maxis or us?
If they are supposed to be influencing Maxis then what they say to Maxis should carry more "weight" so to speak. Are they not giving feedback on toddlers, additional color selections, supernaturals, cars, build tools, CAW, culling, etc.? Do these things not bother the influencers? This brings me to my next point. Once you decide that the opinions of a certain few carry more weight than other people you start to alienate people. It's no longer about what's best for the playerbase. It becomes about what's best for the influencers and that's not how you foster a sense of community.
If these influencers are indeed telling Maxis all of this, and/or their job is really to influence us, this whole "influencer" business then becomes condescending. As in we Sims players are not smart enough to make our own decisions about what to buy that they need community celebrities to convince us that this game is worth throwing our money into.
Either way, this whole thing comes across as being very divisive and hostile for the community.
@Phantomflex Influencers / Content Creators are normally people with very large social followings who do have an "influence" over those who follow them. The individuals who follow them trust their opinions on things like beauty products, clothing, books, art supplies, video games, etc. Companies work with these individuals because their one voice can reach hundreds of thousands of people who feel their views align with this individual.
Influencers are also used as "beta testers" to get hands on with products early (like some of what I listed above) as they have built trust with the companies that work with them to not break NDA's or Embargoes and to think about not only what they personally like or don't like about something but also remarking on areas where they could improve to attract even more people to the product by thinking of some of the big sticking points that those who follow them constantly talk about.
Working with individuals who have a large reach is part of any companies strategy and it is a major part of my job to foster relationships and trust with every one of those individuals that I work with and would like to work with. The fact is that there will always be people who get more access to things than someone else. It's not done out of spite or to be "divisive" it is simply another way to not only promote the product but to empower these individuals to be the liaisons for their community and to pass along their feedback to us. They are basically like me in a way, I am your representative in studio as I am the one that takes your feedback from here to those who need to hear it. I am also the one that would flag stuff if I feel something would rub you the wrong way or needs to be clarified more because it seems confusing.
Been thinking about this all day - and you know what burns my psyche to the core is the fact it seems these "rules" just apply to Maxis and The Sims 4 - and not EA. I find it extremely odd that we cannot even have a single answer to anything regarding future content - but EA on the other hand can go massively live - world wide with their big games - like Battlefield 4, Titanfall 2, the New Star Wars - the coming FIFA - not only with info but trailers and on top of that literally days of play with thousands of players at both the E3 private conference & 3 day event and the Gamescom 2016.
I just checked on just Titanfall 2 is slated to be released October 28th, 2016 - it was first played and viewed June 12th- the 14th, 2016 and now again for another 3 days August 16-18th. What gives on the parent company and it's numerous other studios not having the same rules as Maxis then. Seems to me they are straddling numerous quarters with all EA's game but we can't know a thing about Sims 4.
I fail to get this and I read that whole post Graham linked to. It would be a different matter if EA who owns Maxis lived under the same rules - but seems Maxis is special and has a special set of rules all to themselves.
@Writin_Reg Every one of those games you mentioned would be considered new base games. People haven't been able to purchase any of them yet and you can promote them for as much as you want for as long as you want without having to risk rev rec issues. They are in no way similar to us. We also would be completely overshadowed if we made any kind of announcement of anything when competing for air time with the likes of Battlefield, Titanfall, FIFA, and [c]especially[/b] Star Wars. We are also the only franchise under EA that releases so many different types of content so yea, in a way, we are a special butterfly. Lastly, announcements for new paid content can be announced at any time in or outside the quarter it would be released, doesn't mean it will.
Honestly when plenty of customers are telling you than they consider that EA have been far from transparent (yes since you've arrived it's got slightly better and well done on that) and then the response is that you reject those concerns completely and say that EA believe they have it makes it worse for the customer who feels that way. Nowhere is there a 'sorry you feel this way, can you explain why and I'll take it to those who have the power for future decisions or road maps to try to avoid these feelings in the future'. It's a flat out rejection. This is why people feel let down by Maxis and EA. It's the total rejection of concerns because your company believes otherwise. You know how customer experiences improve? By learning about what works, what doesn't work, how different methods of communication translate in reality to the customer base by listening, taking the time to be understanding and by having an open mind to listen to what the reality is for your customers.
See it's a similar vein to your statement the other day about being negative. You told someone if they were negative then they likely wouldn't have a positive experience. I'd say this situation and similar ones come across to customers as EA having a negative attitude toward any complaints or concerns raised so when things could be learnt and handled better in the future those lessons won't be learnt because the prevailing reaction to those being raised is a negative one. When I say negative I'm talking about the rejection of some customers experiences based on how your company felt it was doing and often myths about why these concerns are raised. Another example-the 'TS3 mindset' comment in the press, the inference in another interview that people don't know what a base is like after many of them have experienced up to 4 bases!
For me, as your customer, it's experiences of rejection of concerns and complaints which have absolutely contributed to my breakdown of trust in the company, the product and the team. I wouldn't have bought the base if I didn't trust you guys to make good on what you ran out of time with and I preordered so I paid a premium to support the studio despite the issues. I was more than willing to support you and wait. But I'm beyond disappointed at the reaction to valid concerns and it has been these instances that has actually caused more damage to the situation and my trust (which you had a lot of given i supported Maxis since before The Sims existed) than the shock of the poor experience with the game. In two years this situation has turned around decades of accumulated goodwill.
In terms of customer service and experience when 'themes' of issues with your product or how the translation of your methods occur in real life amongst the customer base are raised unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers. Every one of them. Doing the opposite just shows a lack of care towards the customer being dismissed. Whether the company agrees or not is beside the point. They should be striving to deal with these issues to improve the situation for all their customers.
@sparkfairy1 I wanted to address the bolded sections in the first quote and this specific portion of the second.
1. How many times have I asked people to explain why they feel the way they do? That I would take my feedback to the team? I've even reached out to several individuals in these forums privately to have a more 1:1 conversation to figure out how we can mend that relationship. Too many people here stay in the past. Yes, your opinions and concerns are valid but in a way they do have an expiration date. If someone, like myself, is speaking directly to you almost every day all day to engage and mend relationships, comment on things that they are able, to hunt for the answers to the questions they can answer for you, and are an advocate for you to fight to make sure we are being as transparent as possible and people STILL try and say that we aren't being transparent or are hiding things or are trying to find double meaning in their words than they would clearly rather stay negative than even try to let their past issues go and look to the future.
It doesn't mean they no longer care about the issues they had in the past, it's that they themselves acknowledge that they are willing to accept the olive branch being given. If they swipe it away and "scream" and "yell" about things from the past they clearly want to stay there and we can never change their minds. I spent my first year as the Community Manager working to mend relationships with those who felt disenfranchised; those individuals took up a lot of my time (including time I should have been spending with my significant other) because I felt it was important to spend my first year trying to mend relationships and really learn about what those who feel upset / completely unsatisfied were coming from so we could work towards making "peace" and starting a new. Now that my position has gotten bigger and I have to think globally I can no longer just focus on those individuals anymore.
2. That particular individual wasn't giving feedback. They were, in a way, yelling into a room and were dismissing everything I've said before. It is one thing to be frustrated and to share that frustration in a constructive and controlled manner, it's another to yell "in someone's face" and not be willing to hear anything the other side has to say.
3. As for the final quote: It is absolutely impossible to make every single person who plays our game happy. Additionally, the same mention of "unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers" can be said for the customers as well. If you aren't willing to listen to what we say with an open mind when we are providing you with straight answers and way more insight into things then we are even obligated to give you you will never learn to trust that we are being honest with you within the constraints that we can and you won't improve the relationship with the team you say you want to have hear you. There also comes a point where you are in a lose lose situation with those who are unhappy and you simply have to move on because nothing you say or do will please them--its never something you want to do but sometimes it's more worthwhile to engage with those who are willing to provide constructive feedback over ones who just want to yell.
Island Paradise and Into the Future were announced without screens and videos. They teased us for months about basketball and other things when they were marketing the base game, SimGuruGrant had to say on Twitter "Things change". Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines and even Microsoft (Windows Insider) have a open relationship with their community, announcing and showing content in development.
Grant is right, things do change in game development all the time, and those communities you gave an example for are more willing to understand the intricacies of game development and don't go attacking the devs on a personal level because those things changed in development that those teams don't have control over. If the Sims community could also ingest that and accept that game development isn't a straight line from point A to point B and is rather a very curvy line that has lots of loop-de-loops then maybe we could have an open relationship. As it is now we get shot down multiple times when we talk about what goes into making The Sims, told we are just making excuses, that the team is lazy, that the team has no heart, that the team doesn't listen, and the list goes on and on.
While that may be true, we're already two years in. Maybe they should've started working on including all the basic stuff people are actually missing instead of one SP after another. I think a lot of people could've done with far less SPs if instead they'd gotten back the content they want... but that's just an opinion of course Maybe for TS5 they should think about the kind of game development Planet Coaster & Parkitect have chosen. I like co-creation & asking the people who'll eventually buy the game to chime in & help make it what they like - instead of telling them "here you have a fabulous engine that will make all your dreams possible" only to then never add the things people say they dream of.
See the problem with only focusing on the people who, as you say, will eventually buy the game is that you completely limit yourself from appealing to a wider audience. You HAVE to think bigger to remain in this industry, you HAVE to evolve, and you CANT just focus on the ones you "know will eventually buy the game". This is why so many games on Steam Green Light / Early Access never get out of Early Access because you have too many cooks in the kitchen.
And Lastly:
Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc.
With all of that I am off for the rest of the day as I am going to be on a long flight back to EARS tomorrow. I bid all of you a good evening / morning and I hope that you have a wonderful weekend
@SimGuruDrake if those issues are never dealt with sufficiently they don't have an expiration date. They affect relationships and they influence the future interaction. It doesn't actually take a lot to engage people who want to believe in you and the sims-give them a tiny acknowledgement and apology that maybe things didn't translate well and I'd bet most who have stayed around will appreciate it more than your company realises! And with your pointed comments about looking at ourselves-maybe you would like to ask yourselves why people who have supported you for so many years are suddenly telling you there *are* issues, what they are and why but without any acknowledgement of these from EA and attempt to deal with them directly why they are still looking for a response. Please can you point me to when these issues have been addressed officially and put to bed by EA other than recent claims of transparency meaning that those who feel their experiences weren't were wrong to feel that way. I'm all for giving credit when it's due. If you knew me you'll know that for every criticism I make with a company when I see things dealt with well I sing their praises and go out of my way to tell all and sundry how awesome that person or organisation was at dealing with an issue. You see its important that it works both ways.
As for not offering constructive feedback I'm really rather offended. I have repeatedly offered to help you in keeping track with the family thread, have tried to do something similar with the stickied thread in this section and it isn't something that is ever responded to. I knew you found those threads mammoth and hard work (they are for the best of us who enjoy them!) -I also spend my time learning a great deal about all kinds of different simmers and encouraging their own experiences so I know a lot that is being missed out on because of your time pressures. I understand that and it's why I've repeatedly offered my assistance-if I'm doing it anyway then you may as well benefit from it because it's why people are here! I've got all this untapped knowledge of a subject and the common threads which weave their way through different types if individual players! If you were playing a game show on the sims my specialist subject would have to be this!
It is not about making everyone happy. It's about not allowing customers who want to believe in you and who care a lot about your product and your team to feel like they aren't welcome. We haven't seen any apologies for the missteps in communication that led to customers feeling that way so your assertion that people are holding onto something dealt with previously is erroneous. It hasn't been dealt with. Please deal with it and I'll be more than happy to get back on the benefit of the doubt train.
I used to be a huge advocate for patience and telling people to believe in the team and the product. I used to go out of my way to help people with issues accessing your game time without sharing my own experience. Why did I do that? I cared not to influence those people negatively and encourage them to make their own minds up. They didn't need my experience. Why did I stop feeling that way to give that benefit of the doubt? It's the time and time again having concerns pushed aside, that your customers are the issue and not only having a bad experience with the game but the after care being worse than the game itself. I know EA can do better. Why? Because I've experienced what your better looked like in the past. It's why I bothered to help your company in the first place. I believe in EA. Maybe even a little now, however foolish I may feel now. You are a industry leader company with the greatest minds in the industry. It would be sad to see customer service issues affected the end product that way.
I am not yelling, I'm not even angry. What I am is disappointed in you and your company because I know full well what better looks like. And its not writing off themes of criticism that dont fit EA's belief system of how they acted over what the reality has been for sections of their customer base. The suggestion otherwise is actually pretty upsetting as I've always tried to advocate being polite, articulate and have encouraged others to avoid the 'yelling' thing. If you feel that I am not worth the Gurus or yourself bothering with please say so. I will go away knowing that clearly customers that feel as I do are not worth EA's time and that's a closure maybe you need to actually give. Maybe those customers who love your company need to be told that they have become irrelevant because they have been written off as 'lost causes' because of their experience and your company feeling we should've got over something that wasn't addressed.
It is not about making it personal and may be this is where stuff is getting lost in translation with the team?! I'm not accusing anyone of deliberately lying maliciously or excuses. I'm purely addressing my feedback to the company. Individually I think some Gurus I've *met* are pretty lovely but that's got nothing to do with the price of cheese here. I'm saying I do not understand given the assertion that EA was transparent these examples that are being given are what caused those feelings of distrust in the first place! That is telling you the why, when and where you say you want to hear! To then have it said that it's a personal insult is not the case at all!
When I see an acknowledgement of the issues that doesnt include a disclaimer that EA doesnt accept it was an issue and a real willingness to work with people who are disappointed I'll be singing the praises of EA again. I've been waiting to see it for a long time so I can go back to my happy 'give them the benefit of the doubt' answers and a belief that things will get better. It's what I've been waiting for. I truly believed you would be the one to bring it too. I believed green shoots were coming on the odd occasion you would appear to discuss issues but we still never got to the point where the concerns were acknowledged by EA.
You arrived after a long time where we had abysmal communication on the forums. Yes its hard work improving things (especially given you inherited a lot of history) but I believe your customers are worth it and a lot of us would lend a hand in helping you if it was needed. I'm not averse to helping you in any way, shape or form and if I were such a 'monster' customer that couldn't ever be happy then surely I would be against helping you?! I would have been gone like others. But if the decision has been made that I'm in a category of 'lost cause' customer then please tell me so I can extinguish that last little ember of hope I've been carrying in the sims and your team. Thanks.
For me it boils down to the very fact that Maxis calls these people/sites "influencers". Are they supposed to be influencing Maxis or us?
If they are supposed to be influencing Maxis then what they say to Maxis should carry more "weight" so to speak. Are they not giving feedback on toddlers, additional color selections, supernaturals, cars, build tools, CAW, culling, etc.? Do these things not bother the influencers? This brings me to my next point. Once you decide that the opinions of a certain few carry more weight than other people you start to alienate people. It's no longer about what's best for the playerbase. It becomes about what's best for the influencers and that's not how you foster a sense of community.
If these influencers are indeed telling Maxis all of this, and/or their job is really to influence us, this whole "influencer" business then becomes condescending. As in we Sims players are not smart enough to make our own decisions about what to buy that they need community celebrities to convince us that this game is worth throwing our money into.
Either way, this whole thing comes across as being very divisive and hostile for the community.
@Phantomflex Influencers / Content Creators are normally people with very large social followings who do have an "influence" over those who follow them. The individuals who follow them trust their opinions on things like beauty products, clothing, books, art supplies, video games, etc. Companies work with these individuals because their one voice can reach hundreds of thousands of people who feel their views align with this individual.
Influencers are also used as "beta testers" to get hands on with products early (like some of what I listed above) as they have built trust with the companies that work with them to not break NDA's or Embargoes and to think about not only what they personally like or don't like about something but also remarking on areas where they could improve to attract even more people to the product by thinking of some of the big sticking points that those who follow them constantly talk about.
Working with individuals who have a large reach is part of any companies strategy and it is a major part of my job to foster relationships and trust with every one of those individuals that I work with and would like to work with. The fact is that there will always be people who get more access to things than someone else. It's not done out of spite or to be "divisive" it is simply another way to not only promote the product but to empower these individuals to be the liaisons for their community and to pass along their feedback to us. They are basically like me in a way, I am your representative in studio as I am the one that takes your feedback from here to those who need to hear it. I am also the one that would flag stuff if I feel something would rub you the wrong way or needs to be clarified more because it seems confusing.
Been thinking about this all day - and you know what burns my psyche to the core is the fact it seems these "rules" just apply to Maxis and The Sims 4 - and not EA. I find it extremely odd that we cannot even have a single answer to anything regarding future content - but EA on the other hand can go massively live - world wide with their big games - like Battlefield 4, Titanfall 2, the New Star Wars - the coming FIFA - not only with info but trailers and on top of that literally days of play with thousands of players at both the E3 private conference & 3 day event and the Gamescom 2016.
I just checked on just Titanfall 2 is slated to be released October 28th, 2016 - it was first played and viewed June 12th- the 14th, 2016 and now again for another 3 days August 16-18th. What gives on the parent company and it's numerous other studios not having the same rules as Maxis then. Seems to me they are straddling numerous quarters with all EA's game but we can't know a thing about Sims 4.
I fail to get this and I read that whole post Graham linked to. It would be a different matter if EA who owns Maxis lived under the same rules - but seems Maxis is special and has a special set of rules all to themselves.
@Writin_Reg Every one of those games you mentioned would be considered new base games. People haven't been able to purchase any of them yet and you can promote them for as much as you want for as long as you want without having to risk rev rec issues. They are in no way similar to us. We also would be completely overshadowed if we made any kind of announcement of anything when competing for air time with the likes of Battlefield, Titanfall, FIFA, and [c]especially[/b] Star Wars. We are also the only franchise under EA that releases so many different types of content so yea, in a way, we are a special butterfly. Lastly, announcements for new paid content can be announced at any time in or outside the quarter it would be released, doesn't mean it will.
Honestly when plenty of customers are telling you than they consider that EA have been far from transparent (yes since you've arrived it's got slightly better and well done on that) and then the response is that you reject those concerns completely and say that EA believe they have it makes it worse for the customer who feels that way. Nowhere is there a 'sorry you feel this way, can you explain why and I'll take it to those who have the power for future decisions or road maps to try to avoid these feelings in the future'. It's a flat out rejection. This is why people feel let down by Maxis and EA. It's the total rejection of concerns because your company believes otherwise. You know how customer experiences improve? By learning about what works, what doesn't work, how different methods of communication translate in reality to the customer base by listening, taking the time to be understanding and by having an open mind to listen to what the reality is for your customers.
See it's a similar vein to your statement the other day about being negative. You told someone if they were negative then they likely wouldn't have a positive experience. I'd say this situation and similar ones come across to customers as EA having a negative attitude toward any complaints or concerns raised so when things could be learnt and handled better in the future those lessons won't be learnt because the prevailing reaction to those being raised is a negative one. When I say negative I'm talking about the rejection of some customers experiences based on how your company felt it was doing and often myths about why these concerns are raised. Another example-the 'TS3 mindset' comment in the press, the inference in another interview that people don't know what a base is like after many of them have experienced up to 4 bases!
For me, as your customer, it's experiences of rejection of concerns and complaints which have absolutely contributed to my breakdown of trust in the company, the product and the team. I wouldn't have bought the base if I didn't trust you guys to make good on what you ran out of time with and I preordered so I paid a premium to support the studio despite the issues. I was more than willing to support you and wait. But I'm beyond disappointed at the reaction to valid concerns and it has been these instances that has actually caused more damage to the situation and my trust (which you had a lot of given i supported Maxis since before The Sims existed) than the shock of the poor experience with the game. In two years this situation has turned around decades of accumulated goodwill.
In terms of customer service and experience when 'themes' of issues with your product or how the translation of your methods occur in real life amongst the customer base are raised unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers. Every one of them. Doing the opposite just shows a lack of care towards the customer being dismissed. Whether the company agrees or not is beside the point. They should be striving to deal with these issues to improve the situation for all their customers.
@sparkfairy1 I wanted to address the bolded sections in the first quote and this specific portion of the second.
1. How many times have I asked people to explain why they feel the way they do? That I would take my feedback to the team? I've even reached out to several individuals in these forums privately to have a more 1:1 conversation to figure out how we can mend that relationship. Too many people here stay in the past. Yes, your opinions and concerns are valid but in a way they do have an expiration date. If someone, like myself, is speaking directly to you almost every day all day to engage and mend relationships, comment on things that they are able, to hunt for the answers to the questions they can answer for you, and are an advocate for you to fight to make sure we are being as transparent as possible and people STILL try and say that we aren't being transparent or are hiding things or are trying to find double meaning in their words than they would clearly rather stay negative than even try to let their past issues go and look to the future.
It doesn't mean they no longer care about the issues they had in the past, it's that they themselves acknowledge that they are willing to accept the olive branch being given. If they swipe it away and "scream" and "yell" about things from the past they clearly want to stay there and we can never change their minds. I spent my first year as the Community Manager working to mend relationships with those who felt disenfranchised; those individuals took up a lot of my time (including time I should have been spending with my significant other) because I felt it was important to spend my first year trying to mend relationships and really learn about what those who feel upset / completely unsatisfied were coming from so we could work towards making "peace" and starting a new. Now that my position has gotten bigger and I have to think globally I can no longer just focus on those individuals anymore.
2. That particular individual wasn't giving feedback. They were, in a way, yelling into a room and were dismissing everything I've said before. It is one thing to be frustrated and to share that frustration in a constructive and controlled manner, it's another to yell "in someone's face" and not be willing to hear anything the other side has to say.
3. As for the final quote: It is absolutely impossible to make every single person who plays our game happy. Additionally, the same mention of "unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers" can be said for the customers as well. If you aren't willing to listen to what we say with an open mind when we are providing you with straight answers and way more insight into things then we are even obligated to give you you will never learn to trust that we are being honest with you within the constraints that we can and you won't improve the relationship with the team you say you want to have hear you. There also comes a point where you are in a lose lose situation with those who are unhappy and you simply have to move on because nothing you say or do will please them--its never something you want to do but sometimes it's more worthwhile to engage with those who are willing to provide constructive feedback over ones who just want to yell.
Island Paradise and Into the Future were announced without screens and videos. They teased us for months about basketball and other things when they were marketing the base game, SimGuruGrant had to say on Twitter "Things change". Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines and even Microsoft (Windows Insider) have a open relationship with their community, announcing and showing content in development.
Grant is right, things do change in game development all the time, and those communities you gave an example for are more willing to understand the intricacies of game development and don't go attacking the devs on a personal level because those things changed in development that those teams don't have control over. If the Sims community could also ingest that and accept that game development isn't a straight line from point A to point B and is rather a very curvy line that has lots of loop-de-loops then maybe we could have an open relationship. As it is now we get shot down multiple times when we talk about what goes into making The Sims, told we are just making excuses, that the team is lazy, that the team has no heart, that the team doesn't listen, and the list goes on and on.
While that may be true, we're already two years in. Maybe they should've started working on including all the basic stuff people are actually missing instead of one SP after another. I think a lot of people could've done with far less SPs if instead they'd gotten back the content they want... but that's just an opinion of course Maybe for TS5 they should think about the kind of game development Planet Coaster & Parkitect have chosen. I like co-creation & asking the people who'll eventually buy the game to chime in & help make it what they like - instead of telling them "here you have a fabulous engine that will make all your dreams possible" only to then never add the things people say they dream of.
See the problem with only focusing on the people who, as you say, will eventually buy the game is that you completely limit yourself from appealing to a wider audience. You HAVE to think bigger to remain in this industry, you HAVE to evolve, and you CANT just focus on the ones you "know will eventually buy the game". This is why so many games on Steam Green Light / Early Access never get out of Early Access because you have too many cooks in the kitchen.
And Lastly:
Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.
With all of that I am off for the rest of the day as I am going to be on a long flight back to EARS tomorrow. I bid all of you a good evening / morning and I hope that you have a wonderful weekend
Thank you for that condescending lecture. I'm not entirely sure how you managed to come to the conclusion that prattling on in such an unprofessional fashion was a good idea, but I can't say that I'm completely surprised. This is EA/Maxis.
It's obvious to me that the greater reality here seems to be escaping you and your organization. That reality being that most of these customers like @sparkfairy1 are simply looking for an acknowledgment and an apology for the horrible mis-management of this games release and subsequent missteps. I'm even willing to bet that if this was done you'd gain a greater amount of patience and understanding from many that feel hurt here.
A mea culpa is a starting point of any relationship gone astray, and the only way to put the past behind and look towards the future while repairing and gaining trust again.
Until that happens not much will change, not for the better anyway.
Your organization messed up, it's as simple as that. Admit it, apologize, and fix the issues you can.
i actully blame those people in the sims 3 period that tried to play the sims 3 on not good enough computers and whined all over the orginal sims 3 forums and hence the sims 4 was dumbed down for people with low spec computers it made it so people with high spec computers found it boring
For me it boils down to the very fact that Maxis calls these people/sites "influencers". Are they supposed to be influencing Maxis or us?
If they are supposed to be influencing Maxis then what they say to Maxis should carry more "weight" so to speak. Are they not giving feedback on toddlers, additional color selections, supernaturals, cars, build tools, CAW, culling, etc.? Do these things not bother the influencers? This brings me to my next point. Once you decide that the opinions of a certain few carry more weight than other people you start to alienate people. It's no longer about what's best for the playerbase. It becomes about what's best for the influencers and that's not how you foster a sense of community.
If these influencers are indeed telling Maxis all of this, and/or their job is really to influence us, this whole "influencer" business then becomes condescending. As in we Sims players are not smart enough to make our own decisions about what to buy that they need community celebrities to convince us that this game is worth throwing our money into.
Either way, this whole thing comes across as being very divisive and hostile for the community.
@Phantomflex Influencers / Content Creators are normally people with very large social followings who do have an "influence" over those who follow them. The individuals who follow them trust their opinions on things like beauty products, clothing, books, art supplies, video games, etc. Companies work with these individuals because their one voice can reach hundreds of thousands of people who feel their views align with this individual.
Influencers are also used as "beta testers" to get hands on with products early (like some of what I listed above) as they have built trust with the companies that work with them to not break NDA's or Embargoes and to think about not only what they personally like or don't like about something but also remarking on areas where they could improve to attract even more people to the product by thinking of some of the big sticking points that those who follow them constantly talk about.
Working with individuals who have a large reach is part of any companies strategy and it is a major part of my job to foster relationships and trust with every one of those individuals that I work with and would like to work with. The fact is that there will always be people who get more access to things than someone else. It's not done out of spite or to be "divisive" it is simply another way to not only promote the product but to empower these individuals to be the liaisons for their community and to pass along their feedback to us. They are basically like me in a way, I am your representative in studio as I am the one that takes your feedback from here to those who need to hear it. I am also the one that would flag stuff if I feel something would rub you the wrong way or needs to be clarified more because it seems confusing.
Been thinking about this all day - and you know what burns my psyche to the core is the fact it seems these "rules" just apply to Maxis and The Sims 4 - and not EA. I find it extremely odd that we cannot even have a single answer to anything regarding future content - but EA on the other hand can go massively live - world wide with their big games - like Battlefield 4, Titanfall 2, the New Star Wars - the coming FIFA - not only with info but trailers and on top of that literally days of play with thousands of players at both the E3 private conference & 3 day event and the Gamescom 2016.
I just checked on just Titanfall 2 is slated to be released October 28th, 2016 - it was first played and viewed June 12th- the 14th, 2016 and now again for another 3 days August 16-18th. What gives on the parent company and it's numerous other studios not having the same rules as Maxis then. Seems to me they are straddling numerous quarters with all EA's game but we can't know a thing about Sims 4.
I fail to get this and I read that whole post Graham linked to. It would be a different matter if EA who owns Maxis lived under the same rules - but seems Maxis is special and has a special set of rules all to themselves.
@Writin_Reg Every one of those games you mentioned would be considered new base games. People haven't been able to purchase any of them yet and you can promote them for as much as you want for as long as you want without having to risk rev rec issues. They are in no way similar to us. We also would be completely overshadowed if we made any kind of announcement of anything when competing for air time with the likes of Battlefield, Titanfall, FIFA, and [c]especially[/b] Star Wars. We are also the only franchise under EA that releases so many different types of content so yea, in a way, we are a special butterfly. Lastly, announcements for new paid content can be announced at any time in or outside the quarter it would be released, doesn't mean it will.
Honestly when plenty of customers are telling you than they consider that EA have been far from transparent (yes since you've arrived it's got slightly better and well done on that) and then the response is that you reject those concerns completely and say that EA believe they have it makes it worse for the customer who feels that way. Nowhere is there a 'sorry you feel this way, can you explain why and I'll take it to those who have the power for future decisions or road maps to try to avoid these feelings in the future'. It's a flat out rejection. This is why people feel let down by Maxis and EA. It's the total rejection of concerns because your company believes otherwise. You know how customer experiences improve? By learning about what works, what doesn't work, how different methods of communication translate in reality to the customer base by listening, taking the time to be understanding and by having an open mind to listen to what the reality is for your customers.
See it's a similar vein to your statement the other day about being negative. You told someone if they were negative then they likely wouldn't have a positive experience. I'd say this situation and similar ones come across to customers as EA having a negative attitude toward any complaints or concerns raised so when things could be learnt and handled better in the future those lessons won't be learnt because the prevailing reaction to those being raised is a negative one. When I say negative I'm talking about the rejection of some customers experiences based on how your company felt it was doing and often myths about why these concerns are raised. Another example-the 'TS3 mindset' comment in the press, the inference in another interview that people don't know what a base is like after many of them have experienced up to 4 bases!
For me, as your customer, it's experiences of rejection of concerns and complaints which have absolutely contributed to my breakdown of trust in the company, the product and the team. I wouldn't have bought the base if I didn't trust you guys to make good on what you ran out of time with and I preordered so I paid a premium to support the studio despite the issues. I was more than willing to support you and wait. But I'm beyond disappointed at the reaction to valid concerns and it has been these instances that has actually caused more damage to the situation and my trust (which you had a lot of given i supported Maxis since before The Sims existed) than the shock of the poor experience with the game. In two years this situation has turned around decades of accumulated goodwill.
In terms of customer service and experience when 'themes' of issues with your product or how the translation of your methods occur in real life amongst the customer base are raised unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers. Every one of them. Doing the opposite just shows a lack of care towards the customer being dismissed. Whether the company agrees or not is beside the point. They should be striving to deal with these issues to improve the situation for all their customers.
@sparkfairy1 I wanted to address the bolded sections in the first quote and this specific portion of the second.
1. How many times have I asked people to explain why they feel the way they do? That I would take my feedback to the team? I've even reached out to several individuals in these forums privately to have a more 1:1 conversation to figure out how we can mend that relationship. Too many people here stay in the past. Yes, your opinions and concerns are valid but in a way they do have an expiration date. If someone, like myself, is speaking directly to you almost every day all day to engage and mend relationships, comment on things that they are able, to hunt for the answers to the questions they can answer for you, and are an advocate for you to fight to make sure we are being as transparent as possible and people STILL try and say that we aren't being transparent or are hiding things or are trying to find double meaning in their words than they would clearly rather stay negative than even try to let their past issues go and look to the future.
It doesn't mean they no longer care about the issues they had in the past, it's that they themselves acknowledge that they are willing to accept the olive branch being given. If they swipe it away and "scream" and "yell" about things from the past they clearly want to stay there and we can never change their minds. I spent my first year as the Community Manager working to mend relationships with those who felt disenfranchised; those individuals took up a lot of my time (including time I should have been spending with my significant other) because I felt it was important to spend my first year trying to mend relationships and really learn about what those who feel upset / completely unsatisfied were coming from so we could work towards making "peace" and starting a new. Now that my position has gotten bigger and I have to think globally I can no longer just focus on those individuals anymore.
2. That particular individual wasn't giving feedback. They were, in a way, yelling into a room and were dismissing everything I've said before. It is one thing to be frustrated and to share that frustration in a constructive and controlled manner, it's another to yell "in someone's face" and not be willing to hear anything the other side has to say.
3. As for the final quote: It is absolutely impossible to make every single person who plays our game happy. Additionally, the same mention of "unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers" can be said for the customers as well. If you aren't willing to listen to what we say with an open mind when we are providing you with straight answers and way more insight into things then we are even obligated to give you you will never learn to trust that we are being honest with you within the constraints that we can and you won't improve the relationship with the team you say you want to have hear you. There also comes a point where you are in a lose lose situation with those who are unhappy and you simply have to move on because nothing you say or do will please them--its never something you want to do but sometimes it's more worthwhile to engage with those who are willing to provide constructive feedback over ones who just want to yell.
Island Paradise and Into the Future were announced without screens and videos. They teased us for months about basketball and other things when they were marketing the base game, SimGuruGrant had to say on Twitter "Things change". Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines and even Microsoft (Windows Insider) have a open relationship with their community, announcing and showing content in development.
Grant is right, things do change in game development all the time, and those communities you gave an example for are more willing to understand the intricacies of game development and don't go attacking the devs on a personal level because those things changed in development that those teams don't have control over. If the Sims community could also ingest that and accept that game development isn't a straight line from point A to point B and is rather a very curvy line that has lots of loop-de-loops then maybe we could have an open relationship. As it is now we get shot down multiple times when we talk about what goes into making The Sims, told we are just making excuses, that the team is lazy, that the team has no heart, that the team doesn't listen, and the list goes on and on.
While that may be true, we're already two years in. Maybe they should've started working on including all the basic stuff people are actually missing instead of one SP after another. I think a lot of people could've done with far less SPs if instead they'd gotten back the content they want... but that's just an opinion of course Maybe for TS5 they should think about the kind of game development Planet Coaster & Parkitect have chosen. I like co-creation & asking the people who'll eventually buy the game to chime in & help make it what they like - instead of telling them "here you have a fabulous engine that will make all your dreams possible" only to then never add the things people say they dream of.
See the problem with only focusing on the people who, as you say, will eventually buy the game is that you completely limit yourself from appealing to a wider audience. You HAVE to think bigger to remain in this industry, you HAVE to evolve, and you CANT just focus on the ones you "know will eventually buy the game". This is why so many games on Steam Green Light / Early Access never get out of Early Access because you have too many cooks in the kitchen.
And Lastly:
Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.
With all of that I am off for the rest of the day as I am going to be on a long flight back to EARS tomorrow. I bid all of you a good evening / morning and I hope that you have a wonderful weekend
It's amazing how you can say ALL of that, yet say absolutely nothing at the same time.
If, after all these comments you *still* don't get it, then you're not going to.
Don't mind me, going to take a good long look at myself to see what *I'm* doing wrong because obviously, according to you, it's me. Not the game.
All quotes below are from @SimGuruDrake 's most recent post but it's easier for me to talk about it in pieces.
How many times have I asked people to explain why they feel the way they do? That I would take my feedback to the team? I've even reached out to several individuals in these forums privately to have a more 1:1 conversation to figure out how we can mend that relationship. Too many people here stay in the past. Yes, your opinions and concerns are valid but in a way they do have an expiration date. If someone, like myself, is speaking directly to you almost every day all day to engage and mend relationships, comment on things that they are able, to hunt for the answers to the questions they can answer for you, and are an advocate for you to fight to make sure we are being as transparent as possible and people STILL try and say that we aren't being transparent or are hiding things or are trying to find double meaning in their words than they would clearly rather stay negative than even try to let their past issues go and look to the future.
I was not part of the community before you became its advocate, but from what I've heard things have gotten much better since you came. I'm sorry if you felt like my insistency on pointing out that I don't think the team has been transparent about some pretty important points was a personal attack or a devaluation of the work that you have done. I know that other Simmers care more about transparency on different topics than I do, for example, like the quarterly teasers, which are very important to some but I can take or leave, and I am sure you are right that there are plenty of areas where you have opened communication. In fact, I didn't start going on about the patch notes issue until you started reaching out to the community with the question of "why do you still feel like communication is bad after all the work I've been doing?" I've been trying to answer that question, not clinging the past but speaking to a current issue for many Simmers. I do feel that communication is still lacking because I feel that the team should be honest about the changes it makes to the game and responsive to the upset of players who feel that these mechanics are a big deal and should be announced with due warning before they tear apart our stories, if they have to be introduced into the game without toggle options at all.
I know that there are forums users here whose feedback devolves into personal character attacks on members of the team when their frustrations are voiced, and that's not good. It must be difficult to work out a one-size-fits-all response to such a delicate topic especially when you feel that your co-workers are being unfairly personally attacked, which sometimes sadly does happen on this forum. But there are many of us (as @sparkfairy1 has been explaining) who do not attack your character, who are not blindly determined to hate the game, but out of our love for this game and the stories we make with it continue to express our criticisms of where the game and the "team" have left us feeling unheard or disserviced, so your response has come off as very condescending to those of us who have been giving constructive criticism and have been trying to speak on issues without it exploding into a massive character assassination.
When I say, for example, that the decision not to announce the "big three" (culling, relationship culling, and inactive played relationship decay) comes off to the players as one of cowardice, I'm sorry if it was not clear enough that I was not calling any individual a coward. When I say that the presentation of updates into the game has been dishonest, I'm sorry if it was not clear enough that I was not calling any individual a liar. What I have been trying to do is represent to you what the feeling on the forum topics about these issues is, while filtering out the more outrageous accusations flung at individual team members when these topics come up, so that we can have a serious discussion about the issues at hand instead of a straw man argument about individual team members' character or apocalpytic conspiracies about the future of the game. I believe that a corporate identity can be accused of dishonesty and cowardice without it being a personal attack towards any individual you work with. At the very least, now that you have been made aware that these issues are a big deal to the players, it would reflect poorly on the team if the pattern of added mechanics that cut down on Sims' relationships with each other are set loose into the game continues with similar silence. Many players have been waiting for an apology or an admission that, whoops, we didn't realise your Sims' relationships meant so much to your gameplay - we'll try to fix this soon and cut down on save bloat/lag/whatever another way.
Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.
You want me to take a hard look at myself and wonder if anything you do will ever truly make me happy? Whew. The short answer is yes, there are lots of things you can do that will improve my view of The Sims 4's communication issues. Have we not been making these clear? I understand that in this thread alone there are a few strands of conversation going on at once so it's a bit difficult to entangle which ones you were exactly talking about in this post. Maybe you understimate just how upset we are if you think that many of us are not trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you? Like @sparkfairy1! Or take me, for example. I used to be very annoyed that we didn't get more information on future updates in the predictable TS3 fashion. After reading about the flexibility inherent in the live service model and the accounting restrictions about free content announcements, I was satisfied with the explanations provided and stopped being so upset about it.
Right now what would make me happy, regarding the specific issue I've been bringing to your attention? In a perfect world I would love an explanation of whose bright idea it was that we didn't think our Sims' relationships were a big deal, that we wouldn't notice our Sims disappearing or forgetting almost everyone they've ever met, along with an apology for such a royal misunderstanding of how we use your product. That would make me "truly happy". But that's probably not going to happen for a variety of reasons, some of them nobler than others, so what would make me satisfied as a customer, if not "truly happy"? The removal of inactive played relationship decay and relationship culling or, at the very least, an option to toggle them on or off. I get the same option with graphics - I can assure you that my game performance takes a much greater hit from the new lighting update than from my Sims knowing 50 people, since I currently mod out all forms of culling and relationship decay and only experience mildly slower performance, whereas my laptop would just about combust from the new lighting update considering how much it whines about even low-medium graphics settings. And if this isn't possible, I'd like to hear a convincing explanation as to why. Is it so hard to admit that whoever made the call that relationship culling and inactive played relationship decay weren't "a big deal to players" probably made the wrong call? And to adjust that viewpoint for future, and take our concerns into account so that future updates won't cripple rotational play the way these ones have?
It's us, the community. We are asking for too much, we are being ungrateful/hateful and all that stuff.
Totally skipping the fact that many of us already have a relationship going on with this franchise for 16 years, and still holding on because they HOPE the game will improve.
Giving feedback on a daily basis. There are threads with TONS of replies and feedback (check out the toddler thread @sparkfairy1 created for example).
But what is the point of giving feedback when it clearly doesn't matter anyway. It seems like this team already has their ''vision'' for this game all; mapped out, and no matter what we say or how much feedback we give, it's not going to change their vision.
I also hate the fact that they are totally ignoring the fact that there is a very hardcore fanbase here on the forums. And from the wording SGdrake used it doesn't matter what the hardcore fanbase asks for, since they have to look ''wider'' (we are just a tiny subset, remember?)....
Agh well, there is no point in even having a discussion about it, since it's obvious enough the only thing we will get are the same repetitive answers anyway.
Yeah it's totally not logical people are getting upset when you don't acknowledge the issues and just start to wipe it under the carpet for 2 years already. It's not going to make things better at all.
Relationships should work both ways, not one. A relationship is build on trust, and this company lost trust of many customers already over the past years, and as long as they are not doing anything to gain that trust back, there is no way this relationship is going to be better.
Oh yeah and another thing:
If you really want to know what ALL the fans want, instead of just newsletters, send the EP ideas surveys out to everyone so everyone has a fair chance to share their preferences. Just to get over with the ''subset'' talking, because most of the players aren't even getting a chance sharing their vision if they are not on the forums and social media.
For me it boils down to the very fact that Maxis calls these people/sites "influencers". Are they supposed to be influencing Maxis or us?
If they are supposed to be influencing Maxis then what they say to Maxis should carry more "weight" so to speak. Are they not giving feedback on toddlers, additional color selections, supernaturals, cars, build tools, CAW, culling, etc.? Do these things not bother the influencers? This brings me to my next point. Once you decide that the opinions of a certain few carry more weight than other people you start to alienate people. It's no longer about what's best for the playerbase. It becomes about what's best for the influencers and that's not how you foster a sense of community.
If these influencers are indeed telling Maxis all of this, and/or their job is really to influence us, this whole "influencer" business then becomes condescending. As in we Sims players are not smart enough to make our own decisions about what to buy that they need community celebrities to convince us that this game is worth throwing our money into.
Either way, this whole thing comes across as being very divisive and hostile for the community.
@Phantomflex Influencers / Content Creators are normally people with very large social followings who do have an "influence" over those who follow them. The individuals who follow them trust their opinions on things like beauty products, clothing, books, art supplies, video games, etc. Companies work with these individuals because their one voice can reach hundreds of thousands of people who feel their views align with this individual.
Influencers are also used as "beta testers" to get hands on with products early (like some of what I listed above) as they have built trust with the companies that work with them to not break NDA's or Embargoes and to think about not only what they personally like or don't like about something but also remarking on areas where they could improve to attract even more people to the product by thinking of some of the big sticking points that those who follow them constantly talk about.
Working with individuals who have a large reach is part of any companies strategy and it is a major part of my job to foster relationships and trust with every one of those individuals that I work with and would like to work with. The fact is that there will always be people who get more access to things than someone else. It's not done out of spite or to be "divisive" it is simply another way to not only promote the product but to empower these individuals to be the liaisons for their community and to pass along their feedback to us. They are basically like me in a way, I am your representative in studio as I am the one that takes your feedback from here to those who need to hear it. I am also the one that would flag stuff if I feel something would rub you the wrong way or needs to be clarified more because it seems confusing.
Been thinking about this all day - and you know what burns my psyche to the core is the fact it seems these "rules" just apply to Maxis and The Sims 4 - and not EA. I find it extremely odd that we cannot even have a single answer to anything regarding future content - but EA on the other hand can go massively live - world wide with their big games - like Battlefield 4, Titanfall 2, the New Star Wars - the coming FIFA - not only with info but trailers and on top of that literally days of play with thousands of players at both the E3 private conference & 3 day event and the Gamescom 2016.
I just checked on just Titanfall 2 is slated to be released October 28th, 2016 - it was first played and viewed June 12th- the 14th, 2016 and now again for another 3 days August 16-18th. What gives on the parent company and it's numerous other studios not having the same rules as Maxis then. Seems to me they are straddling numerous quarters with all EA's game but we can't know a thing about Sims 4.
I fail to get this and I read that whole post Graham linked to. It would be a different matter if EA who owns Maxis lived under the same rules - but seems Maxis is special and has a special set of rules all to themselves.
@Writin_Reg Every one of those games you mentioned would be considered new base games. People haven't been able to purchase any of them yet and you can promote them for as much as you want for as long as you want without having to risk rev rec issues. They are in no way similar to us. We also would be completely overshadowed if we made any kind of announcement of anything when competing for air time with the likes of Battlefield, Titanfall, FIFA, and [c]especially[/b] Star Wars. We are also the only franchise under EA that releases so many different types of content so yea, in a way, we are a special butterfly. Lastly, announcements for new paid content can be announced at any time in or outside the quarter it would be released, doesn't mean it will.
Honestly when plenty of customers are telling you than they consider that EA have been far from transparent (yes since you've arrived it's got slightly better and well done on that) and then the response is that you reject those concerns completely and say that EA believe they have it makes it worse for the customer who feels that way. Nowhere is there a 'sorry you feel this way, can you explain why and I'll take it to those who have the power for future decisions or road maps to try to avoid these feelings in the future'. It's a flat out rejection. This is why people feel let down by Maxis and EA. It's the total rejection of concerns because your company believes otherwise. You know how customer experiences improve? By learning about what works, what doesn't work, how different methods of communication translate in reality to the customer base by listening, taking the time to be understanding and by having an open mind to listen to what the reality is for your customers.
See it's a similar vein to your statement the other day about being negative. You told someone if they were negative then they likely wouldn't have a positive experience. I'd say this situation and similar ones come across to customers as EA having a negative attitude toward any complaints or concerns raised so when things could be learnt and handled better in the future those lessons won't be learnt because the prevailing reaction to those being raised is a negative one. When I say negative I'm talking about the rejection of some customers experiences based on how your company felt it was doing and often myths about why these concerns are raised. Another example-the 'TS3 mindset' comment in the press, the inference in another interview that people don't know what a base is like after many of them have experienced up to 4 bases!
For me, as your customer, it's experiences of rejection of concerns and complaints which have absolutely contributed to my breakdown of trust in the company, the product and the team. I wouldn't have bought the base if I didn't trust you guys to make good on what you ran out of time with and I preordered so I paid a premium to support the studio despite the issues. I was more than willing to support you and wait. But I'm beyond disappointed at the reaction to valid concerns and it has been these instances that has actually caused more damage to the situation and my trust (which you had a lot of given i supported Maxis since before The Sims existed) than the shock of the poor experience with the game. In two years this situation has turned around decades of accumulated goodwill.
In terms of customer service and experience when 'themes' of issues with your product or how the translation of your methods occur in real life amongst the customer base are raised unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers. Every one of them. Doing the opposite just shows a lack of care towards the customer being dismissed. Whether the company agrees or not is beside the point. They should be striving to deal with these issues to improve the situation for all their customers.
@sparkfairy1 I wanted to address the bolded sections in the first quote and this specific portion of the second.
1. How many times have I asked people to explain why they feel the way they do? That I would take my feedback to the team? I've even reached out to several individuals in these forums privately to have a more 1:1 conversation to figure out how we can mend that relationship. Too many people here stay in the past. Yes, your opinions and concerns are valid but in a way they do have an expiration date. If someone, like myself, is speaking directly to you almost every day all day to engage and mend relationships, comment on things that they are able, to hunt for the answers to the questions they can answer for you, and are an advocate for you to fight to make sure we are being as transparent as possible and people STILL try and say that we aren't being transparent or are hiding things or are trying to find double meaning in their words than they would clearly rather stay negative than even try to let their past issues go and look to the future.
It doesn't mean they no longer care about the issues they had in the past, it's that they themselves acknowledge that they are willing to accept the olive branch being given. If they swipe it away and "scream" and "yell" about things from the past they clearly want to stay there and we can never change their minds. I spent my first year as the Community Manager working to mend relationships with those who felt disenfranchised; those individuals took up a lot of my time (including time I should have been spending with my significant other) because I felt it was important to spend my first year trying to mend relationships and really learn about what those who feel upset / completely unsatisfied were coming from so we could work towards making "peace" and starting a new. Now that my position has gotten bigger and I have to think globally I can no longer just focus on those individuals anymore.
2. That particular individual wasn't giving feedback. They were, in a way, yelling into a room and were dismissing everything I've said before. It is one thing to be frustrated and to share that frustration in a constructive and controlled manner, it's another to yell "in someone's face" and not be willing to hear anything the other side has to say.
3. As for the final quote: It is absolutely impossible to make every single person who plays our game happy. Additionally, the same mention of "unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers" can be said for the customers as well. If you aren't willing to listen to what we say with an open mind when we are providing you with straight answers and way more insight into things then we are even obligated to give you you will never learn to trust that we are being honest with you within the constraints that we can and you won't improve the relationship with the team you say you want to have hear you. There also comes a point where you are in a lose lose situation with those who are unhappy and you simply have to move on because nothing you say or do will please them--its never something you want to do but sometimes it's more worthwhile to engage with those who are willing to provide constructive feedback over ones who just want to yell.
Island Paradise and Into the Future were announced without screens and videos. They teased us for months about basketball and other things when they were marketing the base game, SimGuruGrant had to say on Twitter "Things change". Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines and even Microsoft (Windows Insider) have a open relationship with their community, announcing and showing content in development.
Grant is right, things do change in game development all the time, and those communities you gave an example for are more willing to understand the intricacies of game development and don't go attacking the devs on a personal level because those things changed in development that those teams don't have control over. If the Sims community could also ingest that and accept that game development isn't a straight line from point A to point B and is rather a very curvy line that has lots of loop-de-loops then maybe we could have an open relationship. As it is now we get shot down multiple times when we talk about what goes into making The Sims, told we are just making excuses, that the team is lazy, that the team has no heart, that the team doesn't listen, and the list goes on and on.
While that may be true, we're already two years in. Maybe they should've started working on including all the basic stuff people are actually missing instead of one SP after another. I think a lot of people could've done with far less SPs if instead they'd gotten back the content they want... but that's just an opinion of course Maybe for TS5 they should think about the kind of game development Planet Coaster & Parkitect have chosen. I like co-creation & asking the people who'll eventually buy the game to chime in & help make it what they like - instead of telling them "here you have a fabulous engine that will make all your dreams possible" only to then never add the things people say they dream of.
See the problem with only focusing on the people who, as you say, will eventually buy the game is that you completely limit yourself from appealing to a wider audience. You HAVE to think bigger to remain in this industry, you HAVE to evolve, and you CANT just focus on the ones you "know will eventually buy the game". This is why so many games on Steam Green Light / Early Access never get out of Early Access because you have too many cooks in the kitchen.
And Lastly:
Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.
With all of that I am off for the rest of the day as I am going to be on a long flight back to EARS tomorrow. I bid all of you a good evening / morning and I hope that you have a wonderful weekend
Hey @SimGuruDrake, first off that was a very long read & I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this before going on a long flight. I also understand very well that you Gurus, all of you, are people with lives and relationships outside of your job, and I'm sure none of us - or at least most of us - never meant to imply that you shove all that aside just to give us answers. I do think that you too need to understand that most of us - or at the very least not me and many others whose comments and input I've read - don't think you guys (that means you, the dev, sales, marketing and all other teams) sit around doing nothing most of the time (i.e. lazy, as you said). I'm very, very willing to like a game for what it is. I was a huge fan, for example, of Darksiders I and when Darksiders II released and everyone was complaining about how different it was to the first installment, I gave it a try and loved it. To this day I know why some people don't like it - because they're right, it is very different - but what they added surprised me. It made me happy, and I loved playing both these games, and I have never complained. So trust me when I say this: I approached the Sims 4 with as much of an open mind as any other sequel to any other game or series I love. I'm willing to accept changes, I love playing games for what they are. So if I tell you that I don't understand why EA still hasn't added things to the base game they know for a fact a lot of people are missing, I'm not saying this out of spite or because I will "never be able to be happy with anything you do". I find that very condescending way of looking at your customers. I appreciate what you're trying to do. In fact, in the thread no Guru has ever answered to (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/893704/is-anyone-improving-the-mood-based-system-at-all/p1) I didn't only try to explain as constructively as possible why I think emotions are lacking (something that has been said by a lot of other people before and after my post), but I also mentioned more than once that I see very great potential in this game.
Because I do. Because it took some things from the previous Sims games and greatly improved upon them. The game is smooth, it doesn't stutter, I understand why the lack of open world helps you achieve this, I think the emotions are a very good idea overall. I think three trait slots can be enough, that CAS & Build mode are a little feat of perfection. There are a lot of things I really like about this game, and I actually do play it too. If someone asks what kind of things I'd like to see, whether in sims 4 or 5, I try to put some thought & effort into thinking of what could be possible (like the financial system I recently mentioned somewhere) and what would give me enjoyment.
You seem to think however that people who have doubts, or who would like to see certain things in the sims, are only focusing on what THEY want and that they aren't willing to listen. You're saying that the influencers give constructive feedback because THEY see the bigger picture. Don't you think that you're sort of presupposing that everyone who has a different opinion doesn't? And why are there still so many influencers on youtube and other channels today who actually do criticize the very same things we're criticizing as well? Who had the same doubts when TS4 was released about missing features like CASt, open world, toddlers, missing base game features and interactions - sometimes outright telling people to hold off on buying it until EPs may or may not finally improve the game. Some of those still seem to be unsure of whether making the jump from 3 to 4 is worth it today in 2016. Are you telling me that none of the influencers you work with have mentioned any of that, or for that matter, anything about making drastic improvements to moodlets / traits / emotions, adding more interactions to make the events in the sims' life feel more relevant and influential, and seriously curbing back culling and relationship decay to make the game feel less like a dollhouse? Do you think saying that those things are important to us is "screaming, blaming and complaining"? Do you think we'd put so much though into this - spending time away from our own significant others to as carefully as possible share our ideas with a community that seems pretty torn apart lately - if we didn't care? If we didn't believe that, yes, you COULD make us happy?
Seems like that'd be a waste of time to me.
Lastly, I don't think Planet Coaster will remain stuck in its alpha phase. And I think, having had these lectures in my own marketing classes (and my own work experience), that co-creation models will be a part of a lot of future development phases. Why? Because it makes sense. They're not only focusing on the people that play the alphas because they are the only ones that will ever buy the game, but because the feedback those people give (if it's constructive and useful)helps them make it a better game for everyone else too who'll eventually play it. Do you know how much time some people put into giving feedback on those games? How much time they spend away from their lives to make this an enjoyable experience for everyone? Even though they get nothing in return for that? You know, customer feedback can actually help companies see things that they would've missed. Because we're all human, and we tend to overlook the flaws of the things we work on all of the time simply because if you look at the same thing long enough, it becomes blurry to you. That's normal. And gaining a new perspective can help. Plus, this isn't the only company that uses certain features of co-creation, successfully at that. Companies that haven't gone out of business, whose products have in fact seen the light of day.
The point we're trying to make and that apparently you don't hear is: we don't blame YOU personally, we don't even blame the devs personally. We understand fully well that we cannot have every single thing we personally want in the sims game and that it takes a lot of time to implement something well. But when it comes to very, very, very basic features we are missing from a game that has always had those features, we are not "living in the past". We are not refusing to let things go. We are not refusing to let you make us happy. We are tired of not knowing at all what's going on. We are tired of politely asking you to explain us since the very beginning of the game whether you'll bring those things back. And EA has never, not once, told us clearly and openly what to expect. You say 'those games are base games' - sure I get that. TS4 was once a base game too. So why didn't they just tell us then? Why do they keep saying 'everything will be possible', or 'they will not be added AT release' (leaving a lot of hope for possible future implementation), and two full years later we still have the exact same question, just that now the answer is suddenly 'stop living in the past' and 'restrictions keep us from telling you anything'. Well then maybe EA should consider telling us right away, instead of luring people into buying something because it will one day be what they want.
I respect the time you try to take to write these things, but I think that @sparkfairy1 has a point when she says that these answers sound a lot like "our annoying customers are to blame if they're not happy, because they're not being constructive". Really .. you can make us happy. EA could make us extremely happy, and if they did, people would jump on it. They would make their friends jump on it. Because as opposed to what you seem to believe, that is exactly what they're waiting for. They've been loyal to this franchise for a lot, lot longer than the release of TS4. Trust me when I say this: we can deal with changes, that's fine. But we also want to feel like our feedback isn't just yelling to you.
Before I go, I just want to make a firm point about myself that is bugging me @SimGuruDrake
I've explained over and over again the reasons as to why I cannot enjoy this game. I am just met with "no comment". I've told you (Drake/Company) time and time again that I'm not interested in any other packs past the base game until you FIX the base game. Period. I like DO, I'll buy Spooky Stuff. Heck probably even Spa Day and I've never been to one in my life. But there's no point in all of that until you talk to me (us) about toddlers.
Where are they? What are you doing, as a company, to meet the demand? THAT'S a big start into getting me to even open this game again. You (Drake) going on about looking at ourselves to see why we don't like the game is moot because I've TOLD you (Company) what you need to do. You know, I'd be jumping for joy over the apartments we are inevitably getting in EP3. But I can't until you address the toddler issue. I don't *want* to keep going on and on and on and on and on (you get my drift) but you (Company) saying "no comment" leaves me doing just that. I *want* to play a new sims game.
Add or acknowledge toddlers. You are not being transparent when you cannot even talk about a bloody base game item. I don't care about quarters and dates when it comes down to content that should've been in the BG. Period. Your company NEEDS to make an exception on this. The base is out. Has been for two years. Where are the toddlers? I honestly don't want to hear about anything else. I'm not interested so you ca not talk about 'future content' all you like, I'm still at 'toddler'.
@SimGuruDrake I'm speechless. Just...wow. I can't believe your bosses think that speaking this way to its customers is acceptable. Condescension, finger wagging...I'm at a loss. I wish I could formulate a great, detailed response like some of the others before me have, but I'm just too shocked. And in the end, it doesn't matter anyway. You simply won't listen. You're going to cling to the people who tell you the game is awesome and continue to believe that anyone unhappy is simply wrong. It's not worth the effort.
Kudos to you who still have the strength to keep going, I don't. I'm done with this garbage.
I think you have to understand something: alot of us here have been playing, thinking and dreaming Sims for 16 years, which is alot more than most of your devs. I have personally been day dreaming about how to make The Sims the best game ever for that long. That doesn't mean we need that perfect game to enjoy it or play it, it just means that enough of it has to be good enough and let us play our play style. Our feedback and our 'big picture' is invaluable to a company like Maxis. In a way we are just as much a part of the company as the devs. We love this game so much we'd rather start yelling at a wall of silence than stop playing. We'd rather have a nice conversation about it, but yes we'll yell from the rooftops if it comes to that, because we love this game, and we want the best for the company. You haven't seen true customer loyalty until you've seen a simmer - spending days creating, helping, discussing, dreaming and living the game. You don't think you can make all of us happy? I respectfully disagree. It doesn't take much to make simmers happy, because we already love the game, and we will tell our friends and family and strangers on the bus, that this game is fantastic.
Listening to feedback in the context of this game means actual improvement of the game. And trust me, we know the difference between 'improvement that really breaks more gameplay than it adds' and true improvement i.e. sandbox gameplay. If you ever feel like you don't know your way when developing this game, just ask a simmer. We know. Because we have lived this game for so long. We know every play style, every possibility, even when we don't use them ourselves.
yes I can understand that it's hard to have people being so loud about a game, but it's passion, not hate. Silence would be alot worse, because that would mean nobody cared. Thank your lucky stars you have fans like simmers, that holler and cheer and makes ruckus of everything. We care.
I care to the point of not needing a perfect game to play it - I have played Sims 4 from the start, because even though in my mind 90% of the game was gone, I still loved it. So yes, I care. But at a certain point there's too much missing, too much lost immersion, too many bugs. If Maxis could just bring back the balance a little, then we'd all be happy. Sure, some may still yell and run around and jump in your bed, but that's just simmers being simmers. Trust me, we'd be happy.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
You know, perhaps @SimGuruDrake was talking about the community as a whole, not just the forums. How many times have you looked in the comments, replies, or whatever and just seen people saying "Where are Toddlers? This isn't toddlers, you guys are just wasting time on this pack." "Why didn't you announce Seasons? We want Seasons right now!" "This isn't Pets, you guys are seriously being so lazy right now."
I would consider some of that yelling... although there are chances that most of them don't know about the forums and that they can voice concerns here, the focus seems to be more about yelling and calling the team insults whenever they announce something they don't want.
But I would say that sometimes that can carry over to here. When @SimGuruDaniel responded honestly about how it would be unlikely for them to dd ocean swimming in existing worlds as they would have to make new terrain for it, nearly every post after the first page was pretty much just a form of "So you guys just don't want to do it then, pfft, during TS3 it was so easy for you guys, but now you can't? Give me a break!"
Take whatever subtext from that you will. I'm assuming that after yet another SimGuruDrake "controversy," as we've had one like, what, last month, we're going to get another one again probably around, let's say EP3's announcement time.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
If this is the confidence Drake has, that she can speak to customers in the way used recently in these forums, then it's time for people to hang it up. Because displaying this kind of confidence, with this sort of message, shows that her stance and position is considered secure.
Face it people. The wrong sort of people steer the ship at Maxis. They've lost what made them great and are anchored well and truly in video game development nonsense land. The game will NEVER again be what it was or what you want it to be.
I've never seen a less professional company of this size in the developed world. I used to think it was cute until everything started the chaotic barrel roll around the beginning of 2012. Come on, what kind of professional uses passive aggressive writing techniques like using an example of less time spent with a significant other to portray an example of effort at work? And woe is the poor staff member forced to cop the rabble of the forums!
The crybaby generation has taken over. What a despicable and abhorrent mess.
You'll never get another dime from me, and I will use MY miniscule "influence" to tell others of how ridiculously incapable I find this company, its employees and its products.
Anyone still hopefully thinking they'll get something they had from previous versions of this game, from these developers, needs to take a step back, then keep walking. The veneer of professionalism is wafer thin, and these people just aren't capable of giving you what you want. You're asking lego builders to make you the Taj Mahal. And instead they're playing Jenga.
Thank you for explanation @SimGuruDrake - some things are clearer now (though I still don't understand these laws ).
And I'd like to assure you that there are lots of simmers who really enjoy and love the game. And we appreciate what the team is doing for the game (and for us).
Yes, we don't like some things in the game and want something to be changed and something to be added. But nevertheless The Sims 4 is my favourite game and personally I am not going to give it up.
Have a safe trip home.
I don't get it. This whole influencers. No offence to the people invited to that meeting, but I don't know anyone of them.
But I get it. I'm old and I'm not enjoying watching kids playing games on youtube and apparently that's how influencers looks these days. I have to adjust, ok.
But I can't understand how it is possible that I couldn't find single person from Poland attending that meeting? I mean - Germany is Polands neighbour. We have a lot of Influencers, awesome people which are just amazing but none of them was worthy of an invitation? It is really, really sad that Polish community is so discriminated. In my personal opinion it is really, really significant that EA refused to invite anyone from a country which was so close to the place where main event was held.
Well look, it's one plum of a lot better than calling them yibsims! At least the title is an honest description of what EA are hoping their role will be.
So, I'm going to throw out a hypothetical situation at you all.
It is now summer of 2018. TS4 is still going strong. There's another 12 stuff packs, 4 GP's, 2 EP's (remember hypothetical) You know for definite that there are no toddlers. You were told a year ago that they weren't able to put them back in. Likewise, family play is much the same. Whole bunch of sims talking, not much doing. Lots more content. Culling is still there, a little better than it was at now 450 sims per game, because there's 3 new towns that came with packs. Relationship culling is also still prevalent. Maxis have not apologised, as such, but acknowleged what you perceive as their mismanagement. Ultimately, communication hasn't altered much. They still announce packs in the quarter they're coming in and don't talk much outside of it.
In that situation, where are you?
Have you made peace with it and are buying and playing, providing feedback on the content available?
Have you walked away, knowing that fundamentally, they're listening to your feedback but not much has changed, is changing or will change?
Are you happily playing away?
Something else?
I don't expect or mind if I get no response to this. I want people to consider, in that situation, where you'd be.
To be honest, I would have been very happy to have The Sims 1 with 3D graphics. My real main frustration with TS4 is lack of CFE when building, and the behavioural system too obfuscated to do much in-depth modding.
While I'm waiting to board my flight (it's going to be 12 hours in the air! O.O) I wanted to take the time to comment on a few things, I'm on mobile so please bear with me.
Remarks about me being condescending: Nothing I ever say is meant to be an insult to you. Do I come off strong when writing lengthy, no jokes in sight, kind of responses? Absolutely. That's because I believe I should be very serious with you during conversations like this because you deserve my unde attention.
To those of you who I've had polite conversations, reached out to me or responded to me in private messages to chat about things in a more "quiet" space, and those who facilitate a welcoming conversation in threads for all kinds of feedback my comments should have been clear that I wasn't referencing you. The way you engage in providing your thoughts and opinions is the exact engagement that I would like to see throughout all the conversations in the forums and other areas of the Internet. Having mutual respect for one another (developer and customer) is a big deal and I'd like you to know that I have respect for quite a lot of you and am very thankful when you take the time to correct the course of threads when you see someone misquoting or taking something out of context and that you take the time to be constructive with your criticism.
Culling, Relationship Decay: As I've mentioned before, I don't work in development, but as I do work in communications there are somethings that I can do. I had a chat with another member of the Comms team and we will be having a meeting with the right people to see what exactly is going on with this so we can provide you with a clearer answer. I may not be able to provide you an answer right away (traveling plus I have a Disneyland vacation coming up) but I will be working hard to get you some kind of insight into this.
Toddlers: We know that this is a big issue within the community and we definitely are not blind to your pleas for us to tell you something. I wish the answer wasn't one I keep repeating but it's the only one I have for you. With that in mind I want you to know that we absolutely hear you, this is something that is a topic of conversation every day that I'm at work. Because the team hears you, they understand this is a big part of how you immerse yourself in the game and it's a most loved part of the game for many of you. I stickied that toddler thread as acknowledgement that we absolutely hear you, I asked Lyndsay to go into that thread so that she could express that she hears you, and the team appreciates reading every idea/picture that is provided in that thread. We just simply don't want to constantly give you the same answer over and over because it does feel self defeating for us and we know it is frustrating for you. I absolutely HATE asking you this but please be patient when we have something to say in either direction we will tell you.
Influencer feedback: Yes these individuals tell us about things that they see talked about but each has a different community with different concerns. For example: Some are more focused on building than stories so their feedback will be on terrain manipulation, spiral staircases, platform staircases, roofing options, split levels, etc. I try to make sure I work with a variety of people and there are some I've started working with recently so we have even more variety in feedback. But we absolutely look at the feedback / ideas section for themes that we may have never thought of or to confirm that a theme we were thinking is of interest to you.
Phew that was a lot of typing but I'm on my flight now so I will chat with all of you Monday when I'm back in the office
I don't get it. This whole influencers. No offence to the people invited to that meeting, but I don't know anyone of them.
But I get it. I'm old and I'm not enjoying watching kids playing games on youtube and apparently that's how influencers looks these days. I have to adjust, ok.
But I can't understand how it is possible that I couldn't find single person from Poland attending that meeting? I mean - Germany is Polands neighbour. We have a lot of Influencers, awesome people which are just amazing but none of them was worthy of an invitation? It is really, really sad that Polish community is so discriminated. In my personal opinion it is really, really significant that EA refused to invite anyone from a country which was so close to the place where main event was held.
I've a daughter. She's in her mid teens. She watches very little in the way of real television. All of her 'tv' watching is YouTube. She watches some who play games, some who live their lives via webcam and some who review products. The amount of times that she's asked me to get a demo or buy a game on Steam because she's seen somebody else playing it is amazing. She'd ask for more if I had a more recent console. She knows though that I won't buy her games that are too violent.
They've more influence than people think. To a game company (not just EA) that kind of marketing would be important.
Toddlers: We know that this is a big issue within the community and we definitely are not blind to your pleas for us to tell you something. I wish the answer wasn't one I keep repeating but it's the only one I have for you. With that in mind I want you to know that we absolutely hear you, this is something that is a topic of conversation every day that I'm at work. Because the team hears you, they understand this is a big part of how you immerse yourself in the game and it's a most loved part of the game for many of you. I stickied that toddler thread as acknowledgement that we absolutely hear you, I asked Lyndsay to go into that thread so that she could express that she hears you, and the team appreciates reading every idea/picture that is provided in that thread. We just simply don't want to constantly give you the same answer over and over because it does feel self defeating for us and we know it is frustrating for you. I absolutely HATE asking you this but please be patient when we have something to say in either direction we will tell you.
Thank you so much for saying this. For so long I've just wanted to know that you guys at least understand why we want them and what they mean to us. Its just a relief to hear (read) that you acknowledge this, and it made me pretty emotional just to read that.
@SimGuruDrake Thank you for clarifying some of these things. Like I said before, I realize you alone cannot bend the rules and just tell us what we want to know, even if you did know. Which is why so many of us tried to stress the point that we do not blame you personally, and that we know that our frustration with these things isn't your personal fault. Again, when we criticize this game, we do not mean to criticize the people that play or the gurus that come on here to talk to us. We criticize the game, and yes sometimes EA for the way it tends to handle its franchises (not just this one). Just please remember that we say what we said in this and many other threads because we love the series, and because we still have faith in it. Also, if I should ever come across a bit condescending myself, or perhaps even seemingly hostile, please know that I'm a fairly emotional person with ADD who tends to write from the heart, doesn't always manage to structure the many things I want to say very well (which is why I go back to edit so often too ), and that whenever I sound a little harsh it's because I'm, just like you, very serious about the topic (or in this case, the game and where it's going). I never actually intend to be hostile. So with that, I wish you too a nice flight back and a lovely time at Disneyland.
Comments
I'm beginning to get the strong impression that although I'm permitted to voice my unhappiness over the impact a feature has on my game, I better not expect an updated response. Instead of feeling listened to, I feel lectured, which makes me feel like my concerns do not matter one iota.
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The things that make many players unhappy are just being totally avoided and remaining unanswered (culling? possible world editor? etc) so as long as these things aren't addressed, then yes, many players will remain unhappy and it won't necessarily be their faults.
**edit to fix formatting
@SimGuruDrake if those issues are never dealt with sufficiently they don't have an expiration date. They affect relationships and they influence the future interaction. It doesn't actually take a lot to engage people who want to believe in you and the sims-give them a tiny acknowledgement and apology that maybe things didn't translate well and I'd bet most who have stayed around will appreciate it more than your company realises! And with your pointed comments about looking at ourselves-maybe you would like to ask yourselves why people who have supported you for so many years are suddenly telling you there *are* issues, what they are and why but without any acknowledgement of these from EA and attempt to deal with them directly why they are still looking for a response. Please can you point me to when these issues have been addressed officially and put to bed by EA other than recent claims of transparency meaning that those who feel their experiences weren't were wrong to feel that way. I'm all for giving credit when it's due. If you knew me you'll know that for every criticism I make with a company when I see things dealt with well I sing their praises and go out of my way to tell all and sundry how awesome that person or organisation was at dealing with an issue. You see its important that it works both ways.
As for not offering constructive feedback I'm really rather offended. I have repeatedly offered to help you in keeping track with the family thread, have tried to do something similar with the stickied thread in this section and it isn't something that is ever responded to. I knew you found those threads mammoth and hard work (they are for the best of us who enjoy them!) -I also spend my time learning a great deal about all kinds of different simmers and encouraging their own experiences so I know a lot that is being missed out on because of your time pressures. I understand that and it's why I've repeatedly offered my assistance-if I'm doing it anyway then you may as well benefit from it because it's why people are here! I've got all this untapped knowledge of a subject and the common threads which weave their way through different types if individual players! If you were playing a game show on the sims my specialist subject would have to be this!
It is not about making everyone happy. It's about not allowing customers who want to believe in you and who care a lot about your product and your team to feel like they aren't welcome. We haven't seen any apologies for the missteps in communication that led to customers feeling that way so your assertion that people are holding onto something dealt with previously is erroneous. It hasn't been dealt with. Please deal with it and I'll be more than happy to get back on the benefit of the doubt train.
I used to be a huge advocate for patience and telling people to believe in the team and the product. I used to go out of my way to help people with issues accessing your game time without sharing my own experience. Why did I do that? I cared not to influence those people negatively and encourage them to make their own minds up. They didn't need my experience. Why did I stop feeling that way to give that benefit of the doubt? It's the time and time again having concerns pushed aside, that your customers are the issue and not only having a bad experience with the game but the after care being worse than the game itself. I know EA can do better. Why? Because I've experienced what your better looked like in the past. It's why I bothered to help your company in the first place. I believe in EA. Maybe even a little now, however foolish I may feel now. You are a industry leader company with the greatest minds in the industry. It would be sad to see customer service issues affected the end product that way.
I am not yelling, I'm not even angry. What I am is disappointed in you and your company because I know full well what better looks like. And its not writing off themes of criticism that dont fit EA's belief system of how they acted over what the reality has been for sections of their customer base. The suggestion otherwise is actually pretty upsetting as I've always tried to advocate being polite, articulate and have encouraged others to avoid the 'yelling' thing. If you feel that I am not worth the Gurus or yourself bothering with please say so. I will go away knowing that clearly customers that feel as I do are not worth EA's time and that's a closure maybe you need to actually give. Maybe those customers who love your company need to be told that they have become irrelevant because they have been written off as 'lost causes' because of their experience and your company feeling we should've got over something that wasn't addressed.
It is not about making it personal and may be this is where stuff is getting lost in translation with the team?! I'm not accusing anyone of deliberately lying maliciously or excuses. I'm purely addressing my feedback to the company. Individually I think some Gurus I've *met* are pretty lovely but that's got nothing to do with the price of cheese here. I'm saying I do not understand given the assertion that EA was transparent these examples that are being given are what caused those feelings of distrust in the first place! That is telling you the why, when and where you say you want to hear! To then have it said that it's a personal insult is not the case at all!
When I see an acknowledgement of the issues that doesnt include a disclaimer that EA doesnt accept it was an issue and a real willingness to work with people who are disappointed I'll be singing the praises of EA again. I've been waiting to see it for a long time so I can go back to my happy 'give them the benefit of the doubt' answers and a belief that things will get better. It's what I've been waiting for. I truly believed you would be the one to bring it too. I believed green shoots were coming on the odd occasion you would appear to discuss issues but we still never got to the point where the concerns were acknowledged by EA.
You arrived after a long time where we had abysmal communication on the forums. Yes its hard work improving things (especially given you inherited a lot of history) but I believe your customers are worth it and a lot of us would lend a hand in helping you if it was needed. I'm not averse to helping you in any way, shape or form and if I were such a 'monster' customer that couldn't ever be happy then surely I would be against helping you?! I would have been gone like others. But if the decision has been made that I'm in a category of 'lost cause' customer then please tell me so I can extinguish that last little ember of hope I've been carrying in the sims and your team. Thanks.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Thank you for that condescending lecture. I'm not entirely sure how you managed to come to the conclusion that prattling on in such an unprofessional fashion was a good idea, but I can't say that I'm completely surprised. This is EA/Maxis.
It's obvious to me that the greater reality here seems to be escaping you and your organization. That reality being that most of these customers like @sparkfairy1 are simply looking for an acknowledgment and an apology for the horrible mis-management of this games release and subsequent missteps. I'm even willing to bet that if this was done you'd gain a greater amount of patience and understanding from many that feel hurt here.
A mea culpa is a starting point of any relationship gone astray, and the only way to put the past behind and look towards the future while repairing and gaining trust again.
Until that happens not much will change, not for the better anyway.
Your organization messed up, it's as simple as that. Admit it, apologize, and fix the issues you can.
It's amazing how you can say ALL of that, yet say absolutely nothing at the same time.
If, after all these comments you *still* don't get it, then you're not going to.
Don't mind me, going to take a good long look at myself to see what *I'm* doing wrong because obviously, according to you, it's me. Not the game.
Good to know. Smh.
--T
All quotes below are from @SimGuruDrake 's most recent post but it's easier for me to talk about it in pieces.
I was not part of the community before you became its advocate, but from what I've heard things have gotten much better since you came. I'm sorry if you felt like my insistency on pointing out that I don't think the team has been transparent about some pretty important points was a personal attack or a devaluation of the work that you have done. I know that other Simmers care more about transparency on different topics than I do, for example, like the quarterly teasers, which are very important to some but I can take or leave, and I am sure you are right that there are plenty of areas where you have opened communication. In fact, I didn't start going on about the patch notes issue until you started reaching out to the community with the question of "why do you still feel like communication is bad after all the work I've been doing?" I've been trying to answer that question, not clinging the past but speaking to a current issue for many Simmers. I do feel that communication is still lacking because I feel that the team should be honest about the changes it makes to the game and responsive to the upset of players who feel that these mechanics are a big deal and should be announced with due warning before they tear apart our stories, if they have to be introduced into the game without toggle options at all.
I know that there are forums users here whose feedback devolves into personal character attacks on members of the team when their frustrations are voiced, and that's not good. It must be difficult to work out a one-size-fits-all response to such a delicate topic especially when you feel that your co-workers are being unfairly personally attacked, which sometimes sadly does happen on this forum. But there are many of us (as @sparkfairy1 has been explaining) who do not attack your character, who are not blindly determined to hate the game, but out of our love for this game and the stories we make with it continue to express our criticisms of where the game and the "team" have left us feeling unheard or disserviced, so your response has come off as very condescending to those of us who have been giving constructive criticism and have been trying to speak on issues without it exploding into a massive character assassination.
When I say, for example, that the decision not to announce the "big three" (culling, relationship culling, and inactive played relationship decay) comes off to the players as one of cowardice, I'm sorry if it was not clear enough that I was not calling any individual a coward. When I say that the presentation of updates into the game has been dishonest, I'm sorry if it was not clear enough that I was not calling any individual a liar. What I have been trying to do is represent to you what the feeling on the forum topics about these issues is, while filtering out the more outrageous accusations flung at individual team members when these topics come up, so that we can have a serious discussion about the issues at hand instead of a straw man argument about individual team members' character or apocalpytic conspiracies about the future of the game. I believe that a corporate identity can be accused of dishonesty and cowardice without it being a personal attack towards any individual you work with. At the very least, now that you have been made aware that these issues are a big deal to the players, it would reflect poorly on the team if the pattern of added mechanics that cut down on Sims' relationships with each other are set loose into the game continues with similar silence. Many players have been waiting for an apology or an admission that, whoops, we didn't realise your Sims' relationships meant so much to your gameplay - we'll try to fix this soon and cut down on save bloat/lag/whatever another way.
You want me to take a hard look at myself and wonder if anything you do will ever truly make me happy? Whew. The short answer is yes, there are lots of things you can do that will improve my view of The Sims 4's communication issues. Have we not been making these clear? I understand that in this thread alone there are a few strands of conversation going on at once so it's a bit difficult to entangle which ones you were exactly talking about in this post. Maybe you understimate just how upset we are if you think that many of us are not trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you? Like @sparkfairy1! Or take me, for example. I used to be very annoyed that we didn't get more information on future updates in the predictable TS3 fashion. After reading about the flexibility inherent in the live service model and the accounting restrictions about free content announcements, I was satisfied with the explanations provided and stopped being so upset about it.
Right now what would make me happy, regarding the specific issue I've been bringing to your attention? In a perfect world I would love an explanation of whose bright idea it was that we didn't think our Sims' relationships were a big deal, that we wouldn't notice our Sims disappearing or forgetting almost everyone they've ever met, along with an apology for such a royal misunderstanding of how we use your product. That would make me "truly happy". But that's probably not going to happen for a variety of reasons, some of them nobler than others, so what would make me satisfied as a customer, if not "truly happy"? The removal of inactive played relationship decay and relationship culling or, at the very least, an option to toggle them on or off. I get the same option with graphics - I can assure you that my game performance takes a much greater hit from the new lighting update than from my Sims knowing 50 people, since I currently mod out all forms of culling and relationship decay and only experience mildly slower performance, whereas my laptop would just about combust from the new lighting update considering how much it whines about even low-medium graphics settings. And if this isn't possible, I'd like to hear a convincing explanation as to why. Is it so hard to admit that whoever made the call that relationship culling and inactive played relationship decay weren't "a big deal to players" probably made the wrong call? And to adjust that viewpoint for future, and take our concerns into account so that future updates won't cripple rotational play the way these ones have?
Add Manage Neighbourhood Options - assign your own Sim to NPC jobs!
The Problems with Death in The Sims 4
Distinguish Elder gameplay with Elder-only reward traits
Filter Rugs by Room Size
Totally skipping the fact that many of us already have a relationship going on with this franchise for 16 years, and still holding on because they HOPE the game will improve.
Giving feedback on a daily basis. There are threads with TONS of replies and feedback (check out the toddler thread @sparkfairy1 created for example).
But what is the point of giving feedback when it clearly doesn't matter anyway. It seems like this team already has their ''vision'' for this game all; mapped out, and no matter what we say or how much feedback we give, it's not going to change their vision.
I also hate the fact that they are totally ignoring the fact that there is a very hardcore fanbase here on the forums. And from the wording SGdrake used it doesn't matter what the hardcore fanbase asks for, since they have to look ''wider'' (we are just a tiny subset, remember?)....
Agh well, there is no point in even having a discussion about it, since it's obvious enough the only thing we will get are the same repetitive answers anyway.
Yeah it's totally not logical people are getting upset when you don't acknowledge the issues and just start to wipe it under the carpet for 2 years already. It's not going to make things better at all.
Relationships should work both ways, not one. A relationship is build on trust, and this company lost trust of many customers already over the past years, and as long as they are not doing anything to gain that trust back, there is no way this relationship is going to be better.
Oh yeah and another thing:
If you really want to know what ALL the fans want, instead of just newsletters, send the EP ideas surveys out to everyone so everyone has a fair chance to share their preferences. Just to get over with the ''subset'' talking, because most of the players aren't even getting a chance sharing their vision if they are not on the forums and social media.
Hey @SimGuruDrake, first off that was a very long read & I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this before going on a long flight. I also understand very well that you Gurus, all of you, are people with lives and relationships outside of your job, and I'm sure none of us - or at least most of us - never meant to imply that you shove all that aside just to give us answers. I do think that you too need to understand that most of us - or at the very least not me and many others whose comments and input I've read - don't think you guys (that means you, the dev, sales, marketing and all other teams) sit around doing nothing most of the time (i.e. lazy, as you said). I'm very, very willing to like a game for what it is. I was a huge fan, for example, of Darksiders I and when Darksiders II released and everyone was complaining about how different it was to the first installment, I gave it a try and loved it. To this day I know why some people don't like it - because they're right, it is very different - but what they added surprised me. It made me happy, and I loved playing both these games, and I have never complained. So trust me when I say this: I approached the Sims 4 with as much of an open mind as any other sequel to any other game or series I love. I'm willing to accept changes, I love playing games for what they are. So if I tell you that I don't understand why EA still hasn't added things to the base game they know for a fact a lot of people are missing, I'm not saying this out of spite or because I will "never be able to be happy with anything you do". I find that very condescending way of looking at your customers. I appreciate what you're trying to do. In fact, in the thread no Guru has ever answered to (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/893704/is-anyone-improving-the-mood-based-system-at-all/p1) I didn't only try to explain as constructively as possible why I think emotions are lacking (something that has been said by a lot of other people before and after my post), but I also mentioned more than once that I see very great potential in this game.
Because I do. Because it took some things from the previous Sims games and greatly improved upon them. The game is smooth, it doesn't stutter, I understand why the lack of open world helps you achieve this, I think the emotions are a very good idea overall. I think three trait slots can be enough, that CAS & Build mode are a little feat of perfection. There are a lot of things I really like about this game, and I actually do play it too. If someone asks what kind of things I'd like to see, whether in sims 4 or 5, I try to put some thought & effort into thinking of what could be possible (like the financial system I recently mentioned somewhere) and what would give me enjoyment.
You seem to think however that people who have doubts, or who would like to see certain things in the sims, are only focusing on what THEY want and that they aren't willing to listen. You're saying that the influencers give constructive feedback because THEY see the bigger picture. Don't you think that you're sort of presupposing that everyone who has a different opinion doesn't? And why are there still so many influencers on youtube and other channels today who actually do criticize the very same things we're criticizing as well? Who had the same doubts when TS4 was released about missing features like CASt, open world, toddlers, missing base game features and interactions - sometimes outright telling people to hold off on buying it until EPs may or may not finally improve the game. Some of those still seem to be unsure of whether making the jump from 3 to 4 is worth it today in 2016. Are you telling me that none of the influencers you work with have mentioned any of that, or for that matter, anything about making drastic improvements to moodlets / traits / emotions, adding more interactions to make the events in the sims' life feel more relevant and influential, and seriously curbing back culling and relationship decay to make the game feel less like a dollhouse? Do you think saying that those things are important to us is "screaming, blaming and complaining"? Do you think we'd put so much though into this - spending time away from our own significant others to as carefully as possible share our ideas with a community that seems pretty torn apart lately - if we didn't care? If we didn't believe that, yes, you COULD make us happy?
Seems like that'd be a waste of time to me.
Lastly, I don't think Planet Coaster will remain stuck in its alpha phase. And I think, having had these lectures in my own marketing classes (and my own work experience), that co-creation models will be a part of a lot of future development phases. Why? Because it makes sense. They're not only focusing on the people that play the alphas because they are the only ones that will ever buy the game, but because the feedback those people give (if it's constructive and useful)helps them make it a better game for everyone else too who'll eventually play it. Do you know how much time some people put into giving feedback on those games? How much time they spend away from their lives to make this an enjoyable experience for everyone? Even though they get nothing in return for that? You know, customer feedback can actually help companies see things that they would've missed. Because we're all human, and we tend to overlook the flaws of the things we work on all of the time simply because if you look at the same thing long enough, it becomes blurry to you. That's normal. And gaining a new perspective can help. Plus, this isn't the only company that uses certain features of co-creation, successfully at that. Companies that haven't gone out of business, whose products have in fact seen the light of day.
The point we're trying to make and that apparently you don't hear is: we don't blame YOU personally, we don't even blame the devs personally. We understand fully well that we cannot have every single thing we personally want in the sims game and that it takes a lot of time to implement something well. But when it comes to very, very, very basic features we are missing from a game that has always had those features, we are not "living in the past". We are not refusing to let things go. We are not refusing to let you make us happy. We are tired of not knowing at all what's going on. We are tired of politely asking you to explain us since the very beginning of the game whether you'll bring those things back. And EA has never, not once, told us clearly and openly what to expect. You say 'those games are base games' - sure I get that. TS4 was once a base game too. So why didn't they just tell us then? Why do they keep saying 'everything will be possible', or 'they will not be added AT release' (leaving a lot of hope for possible future implementation), and two full years later we still have the exact same question, just that now the answer is suddenly 'stop living in the past' and 'restrictions keep us from telling you anything'. Well then maybe EA should consider telling us right away, instead of luring people into buying something because it will one day be what they want.
I respect the time you try to take to write these things, but I think that @sparkfairy1 has a point when she says that these answers sound a lot like "our annoying customers are to blame if they're not happy, because they're not being constructive". Really .. you can make us happy. EA could make us extremely happy, and if they did, people would jump on it. They would make their friends jump on it. Because as opposed to what you seem to believe, that is exactly what they're waiting for. They've been loyal to this franchise for a lot, lot longer than the release of TS4. Trust me when I say this: we can deal with changes, that's fine. But we also want to feel like our feedback isn't just yelling to you.
I've explained over and over again the reasons as to why I cannot enjoy this game. I am just met with "no comment". I've told you (Drake/Company) time and time again that I'm not interested in any other packs past the base game until you FIX the base game. Period. I like DO, I'll buy Spooky Stuff. Heck probably even Spa Day and I've never been to one in my life. But there's no point in all of that until you talk to me (us) about toddlers.
Where are they? What are you doing, as a company, to meet the demand? THAT'S a big start into getting me to even open this game again. You (Drake) going on about looking at ourselves to see why we don't like the game is moot because I've TOLD you (Company) what you need to do. You know, I'd be jumping for joy over the apartments we are inevitably getting in EP3. But I can't until you address the toddler issue. I don't *want* to keep going on and on and on and on and on (you get my drift) but you (Company) saying "no comment" leaves me doing just that. I *want* to play a new sims game.
Add or acknowledge toddlers. You are not being transparent when you cannot even talk about a bloody base game item. I don't care about quarters and dates when it comes down to content that should've been in the BG. Period. Your company NEEDS to make an exception on this. The base is out. Has been for two years. Where are the toddlers? I honestly don't want to hear about anything else. I'm not interested so you ca not talk about 'future content' all you like, I'm still at 'toddler'.
I'll be off now.
--T
ETA: to tag
Kudos to you who still have the strength to keep going, I don't. I'm done with this garbage.
I think you have to understand something: alot of us here have been playing, thinking and dreaming Sims for 16 years, which is alot more than most of your devs. I have personally been day dreaming about how to make The Sims the best game ever for that long. That doesn't mean we need that perfect game to enjoy it or play it, it just means that enough of it has to be good enough and let us play our play style. Our feedback and our 'big picture' is invaluable to a company like Maxis. In a way we are just as much a part of the company as the devs. We love this game so much we'd rather start yelling at a wall of silence than stop playing. We'd rather have a nice conversation about it, but yes we'll yell from the rooftops if it comes to that, because we love this game, and we want the best for the company. You haven't seen true customer loyalty until you've seen a simmer - spending days creating, helping, discussing, dreaming and living the game. You don't think you can make all of us happy? I respectfully disagree. It doesn't take much to make simmers happy, because we already love the game, and we will tell our friends and family and strangers on the bus, that this game is fantastic.
Listening to feedback in the context of this game means actual improvement of the game. And trust me, we know the difference between 'improvement that really breaks more gameplay than it adds' and true improvement i.e. sandbox gameplay. If you ever feel like you don't know your way when developing this game, just ask a simmer. We know. Because we have lived this game for so long. We know every play style, every possibility, even when we don't use them ourselves.
yes I can understand that it's hard to have people being so loud about a game, but it's passion, not hate. Silence would be alot worse, because that would mean nobody cared. Thank your lucky stars you have fans like simmers, that holler and cheer and makes ruckus of everything. We care.
I care to the point of not needing a perfect game to play it - I have played Sims 4 from the start, because even though in my mind 90% of the game was gone, I still loved it. So yes, I care. But at a certain point there's too much missing, too much lost immersion, too many bugs. If Maxis could just bring back the balance a little, then we'd all be happy. Sure, some may still yell and run around and jump in your bed, but that's just simmers being simmers. Trust me, we'd be happy.
I would consider some of that yelling... although there are chances that most of them don't know about the forums and that they can voice concerns here, the focus seems to be more about yelling and calling the team insults whenever they announce something they don't want.
But I would say that sometimes that can carry over to here. When @SimGuruDaniel responded honestly about how it would be unlikely for them to dd ocean swimming in existing worlds as they would have to make new terrain for it, nearly every post after the first page was pretty much just a form of "So you guys just don't want to do it then, pfft, during TS3 it was so easy for you guys, but now you can't? Give me a break!"
Take whatever subtext from that you will. I'm assuming that after yet another SimGuruDrake "controversy," as we've had one like, what, last month, we're going to get another one again probably around, let's say EP3's announcement time.
Face it people. The wrong sort of people steer the ship at Maxis. They've lost what made them great and are anchored well and truly in video game development nonsense land. The game will NEVER again be what it was or what you want it to be.
I've never seen a less professional company of this size in the developed world. I used to think it was cute until everything started the chaotic barrel roll around the beginning of 2012. Come on, what kind of professional uses passive aggressive writing techniques like using an example of less time spent with a significant other to portray an example of effort at work? And woe is the poor staff member forced to cop the rabble of the forums!
The crybaby generation has taken over. What a despicable and abhorrent mess.
You'll never get another dime from me, and I will use MY miniscule "influence" to tell others of how ridiculously incapable I find this company, its employees and its products.
Anyone still hopefully thinking they'll get something they had from previous versions of this game, from these developers, needs to take a step back, then keep walking. The veneer of professionalism is wafer thin, and these people just aren't capable of giving you what you want. You're asking lego builders to make you the Taj Mahal. And instead they're playing Jenga.
Block me if you want. I no longer care.
Thanks, but make sure I have my own room. I snore! :P
And I'd like to assure you that there are lots of simmers who really enjoy and love the game. And we appreciate what the team is doing for the game (and for us).
Yes, we don't like some things in the game and want something to be changed and something to be added. But nevertheless The Sims 4 is my favourite game and personally I am not going to give it up.
Have a safe trip home.
But I get it. I'm old and I'm not enjoying watching kids playing games on youtube and apparently that's how influencers looks these days. I have to adjust, ok.
But I can't understand how it is possible that I couldn't find single person from Poland attending that meeting? I mean - Germany is Polands neighbour. We have a lot of Influencers, awesome people which are just amazing but none of them was worthy of an invitation? It is really, really sad that Polish community is so discriminated. In my personal opinion it is really, really significant that EA refused to invite anyone from a country which was so close to the place where main event was held.
It is now summer of 2018. TS4 is still going strong. There's another 12 stuff packs, 4 GP's, 2 EP's (remember hypothetical) You know for definite that there are no toddlers. You were told a year ago that they weren't able to put them back in. Likewise, family play is much the same. Whole bunch of sims talking, not much doing. Lots more content. Culling is still there, a little better than it was at now 450 sims per game, because there's 3 new towns that came with packs. Relationship culling is also still prevalent. Maxis have not apologised, as such, but acknowleged what you perceive as their mismanagement. Ultimately, communication hasn't altered much. They still announce packs in the quarter they're coming in and don't talk much outside of it.
In that situation, where are you?
Have you made peace with it and are buying and playing, providing feedback on the content available?
Have you walked away, knowing that fundamentally, they're listening to your feedback but not much has changed, is changing or will change?
Are you happily playing away?
Something else?
I don't expect or mind if I get no response to this. I want people to consider, in that situation, where you'd be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influencer_marketing
Remarks about me being condescending: Nothing I ever say is meant to be an insult to you. Do I come off strong when writing lengthy, no jokes in sight, kind of responses? Absolutely. That's because I believe I should be very serious with you during conversations like this because you deserve my unde attention.
To those of you who I've had polite conversations, reached out to me or responded to me in private messages to chat about things in a more "quiet" space, and those who facilitate a welcoming conversation in threads for all kinds of feedback my comments should have been clear that I wasn't referencing you. The way you engage in providing your thoughts and opinions is the exact engagement that I would like to see throughout all the conversations in the forums and other areas of the Internet. Having mutual respect for one another (developer and customer) is a big deal and I'd like you to know that I have respect for quite a lot of you and am very thankful when you take the time to correct the course of threads when you see someone misquoting or taking something out of context and that you take the time to be constructive with your criticism.
Culling, Relationship Decay: As I've mentioned before, I don't work in development, but as I do work in communications there are somethings that I can do. I had a chat with another member of the Comms team and we will be having a meeting with the right people to see what exactly is going on with this so we can provide you with a clearer answer. I may not be able to provide you an answer right away (traveling plus I have a Disneyland vacation coming up) but I will be working hard to get you some kind of insight into this.
Toddlers: We know that this is a big issue within the community and we definitely are not blind to your pleas for us to tell you something. I wish the answer wasn't one I keep repeating but it's the only one I have for you. With that in mind I want you to know that we absolutely hear you, this is something that is a topic of conversation every day that I'm at work. Because the team hears you, they understand this is a big part of how you immerse yourself in the game and it's a most loved part of the game for many of you. I stickied that toddler thread as acknowledgement that we absolutely hear you, I asked Lyndsay to go into that thread so that she could express that she hears you, and the team appreciates reading every idea/picture that is provided in that thread. We just simply don't want to constantly give you the same answer over and over because it does feel self defeating for us and we know it is frustrating for you. I absolutely HATE asking you this but please be patient when we have something to say in either direction we will tell you.
Influencer feedback: Yes these individuals tell us about things that they see talked about but each has a different community with different concerns. For example: Some are more focused on building than stories so their feedback will be on terrain manipulation, spiral staircases, platform staircases, roofing options, split levels, etc. I try to make sure I work with a variety of people and there are some I've started working with recently so we have even more variety in feedback. But we absolutely look at the feedback / ideas section for themes that we may have never thought of or to confirm that a theme we were thinking is of interest to you.
Phew that was a lot of typing but I'm on my flight now so I will chat with all of you Monday when I'm back in the office
Hope you're enjoying your weekend!
I've a daughter. She's in her mid teens. She watches very little in the way of real television. All of her 'tv' watching is YouTube. She watches some who play games, some who live their lives via webcam and some who review products. The amount of times that she's asked me to get a demo or buy a game on Steam because she's seen somebody else playing it is amazing. She'd ask for more if I had a more recent console. She knows though that I won't buy her games that are too violent.
They've more influence than people think. To a game company (not just EA) that kind of marketing would be important.