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Questions for Gamescom Q&A Panel

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  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited August 2016
    Evalen wrote: »
    Gamescom would have been the perfect opportunity to build stronger relations with fans domestic and afar.

    I don't understand why it was decided to use up valuable time to discuss game packs. It seems to me that discussion about game packs and what they have to offer should have been done before deciding to release three of them. And pretty much every one who frequents the forums and other Sims communities knows how far the game has come over the past two years.

    The only good that could come out of this is hearing more about what this "live service" is because I've seen it in other games and it looks nothing like the way the Sims team is handling it.

    I find it very valuable for my time to actually meet our international fans and talk to them face to face. We have talked about what game packs are in the past but there is clearly still some confusion on how they fit in to the grand scheme of things so we want to provide some clarity. Also everyone who frequents the forums and other Sim communities do not know what goes in development or what our production is like, you just have the speculation of members who do not know about our inner workings and so we are going to talk about them. Again, this isn't something that is NDA'd, those who are attending can share what they learn to everyone afterwards.

    @SimGuruDrake That is all nice, but how about building some stronger relationships here. We are in the dark all the time, secrets, can't talk about that. All we ever hear is speculation and no comments about if they are true or not. What is the point of simmers asking for toddlers and we cannot even get a truthful answer. If they are not coming in Sims 4, just be honest and say so, Keeping customers wondering, and hoping for something that might not even come, to me is not good relationship.
    Good relationship is truthful open communication with one another no matter what it is. Don't mean to be offensive, but with all the asking about toddlers around here is very disturbing with no answers.

    I build relationships with all of you every day that I talk to you in these forums. You get infinitely more attention than any other non-english language community in the Sims. You aren't in the dark you just assume you are. There are no secrets. And there are things we can't talk about and won't until we are ready to.

    When we have something to say about Toddlers we will. We aren't going to answer anything until then --that will always be our answer until we have something to say about anything that falls under future content.

    Additionally since it is being talked about in here: We are not obligated in any way, shape, or form to tell you about revenue recognition. That is not something consumers need to know whatsoever. The only reason we even explained it to you was to tell about just one of the reasons why we don't talk about stuff early. I've said it plenty of times now, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, that we have been transparent with you and have been getting even more transparent with you in the past year. I don't "consider" it I know we have and if you choose not to listen and instead want to find double / hidden meaning in my words or any other member of studios words I can't very well control that. I can only tell you what I can and what you take from it is on you.
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    The issue isn't with changes to already purchased and installed software: that revenue is already recognized. The issue is with recognizing revenue on new basegame sales when an update to them has been announced. That update has to be delivered in the same quarter for those sales (the ones in that quarter) to be considered "delivered", with full utility available, and the revenue recognized:

    That idea makes sense, yet at the same time it doesn't. The people who are buying the base game today are not buying the same base game that people bought two years ago. That much is true. However, the updates to the game are free. Someone buying the base game today isn't paying any more for the update than someone who's had the base game for two years, so I'm still confused about how that causes an issue with recognizing revenue. I could understand if the updates were paid content which would require having to collect revenue during that specific quarter, but this isn't the case.

    It has to do with receiving what has been indicated to you that you'll receive when you purchase. So a person who sees that staff have said that basements are going to be patched in and then buys the basegame has to get those basements before the next quarter for that revenue to be recognized in that quarter, or they haven't actually received their full purchase - their full purchase is more than mine was when I bought on release day - my revenue was counted way back in that July-September 2014 quarter. It's done; the story is revenue from basegame sales in the current quarter. (Basements did, indeed, get released in the last week of March, before that quarter ended.) Maxis seems to have been told that anything hinted at that is due to be a patch applies in this same way.

    Fine - then where are my toddlers? We were told all our wishes would be met - my wish since day one was the toddlers. So where are they? End of story.

    Anything that changes prior to a base game release does not fall under the same revenue recognition / quarter issue as at that point we hadn't collected any money for it (pre-orders aren't considered recognized revenue until AFTER release). Anything stated about any future content after a release is a different story as we have already recognized revenue for the base game and thus what Luth describes goes into affect.

    Thank you for answering this, but players have their doubts. We are not asking "When toddlers or other stuff will come". All players want some kind of assurance from EA, like "be patient, we are working on that" "Rest assured, it will come in time"
    Instead of all that all the players get is "We cannot talk about future content"

    This kind of reply became so annoying that it feels it is an auto reply from an answering machine.

    I remember asking one of the gurus when the Sims 2 base game was released in one of those live chats if they intend to release rain since it was supposed to be in the base game, you know what did he answer me? "No, it wont be rain alone but full seasons"
    Someone else asked if pets will be part of Sims 2 and the answer was "Who don't want pets? it has to come"

    What happened to this kind of honesty? It gave us players so much to look forward to. It is totally the opposite with TS4. We players feel that EA is not trusting its own product that is why does not want to talk about the possibilities.

    Whatever happened to the strong foundation we've been told about?? If in 2 years this foundation is still not touched when it will? We all know every base game has a life cycle of 5 years and we are nearing half the life cycle of TS4 and you can still read lots of dissatisfaction of the direction.

    Edit: And this is coming from someone who loves The TS4!!

    If they've got some kind of contract, and they do, that says that they cannot state what they're working on, or have seen until such and such a date, or so many weeks before release, then they literally cannot mention it until that date. Either actually or in a roundabout way, not even to allay your fears that the studio is shutting down. They can be sacked and sued for breech of contract. I'm sure there'd be other consequences.

    If I had to fathom a guess, what happened to that kind of honesty is tied in with the live service and the accounting/tax rules that they're not allowed to mention the content except for the quarter it's released in. It's literally the only difference between then and now. It's nothing to do with not trusting the product, they do, they just aren't allowed to mention it per their rules and contracts. It doesn't matter how much you ask, beg or plead otherwise.

    It also means we won't know about toddlers, cars etc until the teaser trailer or they drop out of a clear blue sky.

    The strong foundation was mostly market speak. If I recall correctly it was said around the time that the announced toddlers wouldn't be there. I could be wrong, my memory of dates not being wonderful. It in no way means that the game engine is defective or incapable.

    As to the person who keeps asking why we weren't told about relationship culling and decay, to them, likely as not, it wasn't important, but a change to culling, which is a back end change (I don't know how to word that properly) to an already existing feature, and thus wouldn't be mentioned.

    (These are either my opinions and beliefs and in no way reflect on other people)

  • simgamesimgame Posts: 538 Member
    Why do you only focus on one part of the fans, while there is a huge part that's bored of the game?
  • TerraTerra Posts: 1,353 Member
    edited August 2016
    Arletta wrote: »
    As to the person who keeps asking why we weren't told about relationship culling and decay, to them, likely as not, it wasn't important, but a change to culling, which is a back end change (I don't know how to word that properly) to an already existing feature, and thus wouldn't be mentioned.

    (These are either my opinions and beliefs and in no way reflect on other people)

    Maybe they didn't think people would notice culling - it was the first of these mechanics to be snuck into the game. But how on earth could they see the backlash to culling and not expect that there would be a similar backlash to relationship culling and inactive played relationship decay, or at the very least that people would notice? Even if they didn't think culling was an important change, they must have A) a very poor understanding how people play this game - you know, making Sims who meet Sims - if they think that relationship culling and inactive played relationship decay would not be considered "a big deal to players" (quoting SGDrake here), and B ) a very poor ability to adapt to negative customer feedback if they didn't see that people actually DID notice culling but expected to be able to sneak a couple of more mechanics that wreaked havoc on players' stories. Not to mention C) nobody on the team who actually understands rotational play.
  • SimTrippySimTrippy Posts: 7,651 Member
    Plus the worst part about culling is how it just doesn't reflect at all in those sims' behavior until you go into those households specifically. What I mean is that whenever my sims go to restaurants / clubs / anything, there they are: the couples I made, happy together, aging together, eating & dancing together. They're never with other people, they're not flirting or having affairs, not once. But when I rotate to those households? They have no relationship whatsoever. And this irks me the most. Because it doesn't just make those relationships themselves empty, it empties the meaning of literally every single animation happening around my sim as well.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    I've linked this on twitter before for others who were curious, perhaps you'll find it elucidating. While it's from 2009, it should give a user-friendly guide to accounting practices and laws related to software revenue recognition.

    http://www.pwc.com/us/en/cfodirect/assets/pdf/accounting-guides/pwc-revenue-recognition-march-2009.pdf

    Thank you, this looks to be exactly what many of us have been inquiring about for some time now.

    Just from glancing at the home page of the site, I noticed this tidbit:
    Companies that generate revenue and apply US GAAP or IFRS are currently adapting to a new five-step model to recognize revenue from customer contracts. The change resulted from newly converged standards released by the FASB and IASB in 2014, which replace nearly all existing US GAAP and IFRS guidance. Significant management judgment on accounting for revenue recognition will now be required, and the changes will have pervasive impacts on people, policies, processes and systems.

    The new revenue recognition standard takes effect for most companies in 2018, but the time to act is now. For companies choosing the retrospective option for adopting the new standard, the transition period has already begun. Companies are finding that circumstances such as tiered pricing, marketing offers (including volume discounts), contract modifications and a host of other potential contract terms are creating issues that require careful consideration under the new standards.

    Let me see if I'm getting this right. These new standards were adopted by the FASB and ISAB two years ago, but the standards don't really take effect until 2018. EA, and by extension Maxis have already transitioned into the adoption of these standards two years ahead of the deadline. And the reason why some of us might not notice these changes within other games we play is because their respective companies have not adopted the new standards yet. Am I along the right track?
    Sorry, but I need to clarify some things especially since accounting is my forte.

    First, EA seems to still be using the GAAP standards as seen here.: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/2674290035x0x902845/FF534F2C-09B6-4687-92A0-945D6E8F5454/Q1_FY17_Prepared_Comments.pdf
    http://investor.ea.com/

    Non-GAAP figures are basically speculation predictions of revenue.

    Second, the IFRS convergence started in 2002. Some reading on that can be found here:
    http://www.fasb.org/jsp/FASB/Page/SectionPage&cid=1176156245663
    http://www.ifrs.org/use-around-the-world/global-convergence/convergence-with-us-gaap/Pages/convergence-with-us-gaap.aspx

    Some FAQ about the IFRS: http://www.ifrs.com/ifrs_faqs.html#q1

    Every prospective CPA taking exams now have to know the IFRS standards. I learned both the GAAP and IFRS standards while attending university. Reason why IFRS standards were made was to make it easier when conducting business internationally, comparing businesses' earnings, and to have a worldwide standard for accounting practices which makes things easier legally too.

    The full convergence of the IFRS financial reporting system yes will be completed by January 1, 2018.: http://isca.org.sg/tkc/fr/resources/articles-publications/financial-reporting-publications/financial-reporting-publications/2016/june/full-convergence-of-ifrs-in-2018/

    Anyway hopefully I haven't confused you further. Basically EA is still using Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. They have until 2018 to adapt to the International Financial Reporting Standards.

    This is an interesting tidbit showing a little more than half of the listed companies are using the IFRS.:
    "This new analysis shows that more than 25,000 of the approximately 48,000 domestic listed companies on the 85 major securities exchanges in the world use IFRS Standards." http://www.ifrs.org/Pages/default.aspx

    EA is a publically traded company so all their financial information is displayed to the public online. Anyone can keep an eye on how well their stock is doing. Just from observing it myself, Sims Freeplay is talked about more than the Sims 4 it seems. Reason for that I think is how a mobile developer friend of mine put it who also did the accounting that mobile games are cheaper to develop and bring in a nice revenue. Why Simmers got worried with the statement of "If the Sims 4 doesn't sell well, there will be no Sims 5" because thinking that mobile games will replace the PC market like with what happened to SimCity.

    The following is based purely on personal opinion and point of view. Hopefully this Gamescom will end up better than last year's one. SimGuruDrake looked like the happiest person in the room with the picture posted on Twitter. I think how Gamescom will be handled is going to be a necessity and seems to be handled ok so far. The relationship between Maxis and their customers has never been rockier than it has during the 2013/2014/2015 time period with both the Sims 4 and SimCity backlash. I think it was a wakeup call. Maxis got used to just selling games on brand name alone, that it probably came as a shock to them that customers are still not happy because of not being able to play games how they want. After the Sims 3 alienating a play style, I'm not shocked at the backlash the Sims 4 is getting with alienating even more play styles including rotational gameplay again. I think culling is the worst invention ever to hit the series and makes me sad thinking of the Sims 2 Machinima of "Deleted". Being a rotational player myself, I don't like the idea of the game controlling over my Sims both with population generation and control. I should have a choice if I want the game to generate Sims or not especially for a game that has, "You Rule" as a tagline. If I want weird random things to happen in my game, it should be the darker aspects of the Sims returning with random deaths and with unpredictable events. If the supposively speculated event is going to happen, the game mechanics are going to heavily conflict with it and it is just going to create an even bigger backlash. Anyway have a nice night/day/weekend.

    Thanks to modders I got a couple of cool things this week that have been asked on forums for while now, so enjoy. Colored loading screens alone, I'm noticing a huge difference with and causing less headaches and stress while playing now.
    http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=581674
    http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=581702

    Signing off.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,247 Member
    Weren't the influencers supposed to be allowed to post about the panels already? We were told there would be no embargo on that and we might see articles about it as early as yesterday evening. But I don't see any mention of it anywhere.
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,247 Member
    Possibly :)
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,701 Member
    IngeJones wrote: »
    Weren't the influencers supposed to be allowed to post about the panels already? We were told there would be no embargo on that and we might see articles about it as early as yesterday evening. But I don't see any mention of it anywhere.

    According to Twitter they're all having too much fun. :D Maybe we'll see something today or when they return home.
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited August 2016
    Terra wrote: »
    Arletta wrote: »
    As to the person who keeps asking why we weren't told about relationship culling and decay, to them, likely as not, it wasn't important, but a change to culling, which is a back end change (I don't know how to word that properly) to an already existing feature, and thus wouldn't be mentioned.

    (These are either my opinions and beliefs and in no way reflect on other people)

    Maybe they didn't think people would notice culling - it was the first of these mechanics to be snuck into the game. But how on earth could they see the backlash to culling and not expect that there would be a similar backlash to relationship culling and inactive played relationship decay, or at the very least that people would notice? Even if they didn't think culling was an important change, they must have A) a very poor understanding how people play this game - you know, making Sims who meet Sims - if they think that relationship culling and inactive played relationship decay would not be considered "a big deal to players" (quoting SGDrake here), and B ) a very poor ability to adapt to negative customer feedback if they didn't see that people actually DID notice culling but expected to be able to sneak a couple of more mechanics that wreaked havoc on players' stories. Not to mention C) nobody on the team who actually understands rotational play.

    To the best of my knowledge it wasn't meant to be as aggressive in the first place. Somebody, I no longer have memory of who, said that they're constantly looking into the culling. As they are and do, they'll add things and take them away and change them all the time. I doubt they'd mention every time they did.

  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    Guys stop talking about accounts and laws, it's making my head hurt. :disappointed::tongue:
  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    edited August 2016
    Double post.
  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    Maybe after those who attend the panel talk about what we shared you might understand how our development works and why we wait to talk about content until we are ready to (and this panel is going to be the most insight you will probably ever get about how our production / development works). If you still think we aren't being transparent after that then I honestly don't know what to say.

    Aw I wish I could have been there. :cry: I hope they share what they heard.
  • EvalenEvalen Posts: 10,223 Member
    SimTrippy wrote: »
    Thank you for answering this, but players have their doubts. We are not asking "When toddlers or other stuff will come". All players want some kind of assurance from EA, like "be patient, we are working on that" "Rest assured, it will come in time"
    Instead of all that all the players get is "We cannot talk about future content"

    This kind of reply became so annoying that it feels it is an auto reply from an answering machine.

    I remember asking one of the gurus when the Sims 2 base game was released in one of those live chats if they intend to release rain since it was supposed to be in the base game, you know what did he answer me? "No, it wont be rain alone but full seasons"
    Someone else asked if pets will be part of Sims 2 and the answer was "Who don't want pets? it has to come"


    What happened to this kind of honesty? It gave us players so much to look forward to. It is totally the opposite with TS4. We players feel that EA is not trusting its own product that is why does not want to talk about the possibilities.

    Whatever happened to the strong foundation we've been told about?? If in 2 years this foundation is still not touched when it will? We all know every base game has a life cycle of 5 years and we are nearing half the life cycle of TS4 and you can still read lots of dissatisfaction of the direction.

    Edit: And this is coming from someone who loves The TS4!!

    Ahhh ... how refreshing that would be. And yes, that's sort of what I meant with basic honesty & very basic indication of direction. And no matter what they and some other people here say, there are a LOT of games / game series that tell you well in advance, sometimes while still in the development stage, what kind of stuff players can expect. I mean look at the way Planet Coaster is released - wait, they want player's input even before officially releasing the game to make it better for them?

    Mindblowing stuff...

    I agree, there are lots of games who tell us what is coming. I agree about planet coaster. If you ask them they give you an ans. not some kind of "We can't talk about that" Why can't you talk about it. I think if toddlers or pre teens were coming in the future, they would be screaming it from the rooftop, with all the request that have been asked. If they are a simple little thing like "Were looking into it. that does not tell us when it is coming or anything that would break your rule, you have no trouble saying "Were looking into it" when some one ask about a bug.
    It is just that simmer want to be excited about things to come. But we hear nothing. Look how long they have told us that EP3 is coming, but then silence, they tell us nothing. Look how long and how many post are about the coming EP3. We don't even know for a fact if it is coming in Sept, Oct, etc or even this year yet, not a confirmation. Do they think that just telling us that a EP is coming is a good relationship. How about the Brazil leak of City Life, they make no comment on it if it is true or false, they just let us keep posting speculations,
    How about like they have said that the EP3 is coming and say nothing about it. How about just saying toddlers are coming in the future.
    that sounds safe enough to me.
    It is not that we are angry that we do not have toddler or preteens, it is the silence about them. Please let us know one way or the other.



  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 37,617 Member
    edited August 2016
    Evalen wrote: »
    SimTrippy wrote: »
    Thank you for answering this, but players have their doubts. We are not asking "When toddlers or other stuff will come". All players want some kind of assurance from EA, like "be patient, we are working on that" "Rest assured, it will come in time"
    Instead of all that all the players get is "We cannot talk about future content"

    This kind of reply became so annoying that it feels it is an auto reply from an answering machine.

    I remember asking one of the gurus when the Sims 2 base game was released in one of those live chats if they intend to release rain since it was supposed to be in the base game, you know what did he answer me? "No, it wont be rain alone but full seasons"
    Someone else asked if pets will be part of Sims 2 and the answer was "Who don't want pets? it has to come"


    What happened to this kind of honesty? It gave us players so much to look forward to. It is totally the opposite with TS4. We players feel that EA is not trusting its own product that is why does not want to talk about the possibilities.

    Whatever happened to the strong foundation we've been told about?? If in 2 years this foundation is still not touched when it will? We all know every base game has a life cycle of 5 years and we are nearing half the life cycle of TS4 and you can still read lots of dissatisfaction of the direction.

    Edit: And this is coming from someone who loves The TS4!!

    Ahhh ... how refreshing that would be. And yes, that's sort of what I meant with basic honesty & very basic indication of direction. And no matter what they and some other people here say, there are a LOT of games / game series that tell you well in advance, sometimes while still in the development stage, what kind of stuff players can expect. I mean look at the way Planet Coaster is released - wait, they want player's input even before officially releasing the game to make it better for them?

    Mindblowing stuff...

    I agree, there are lots of games who tell us what is coming. I agree about planet coaster. If you ask them they give you an ans. not some kind of "We can't talk about that" Why can't you talk about it. I think if toddlers or pre teens were coming in the future, they would be screaming it from the rooftop, with all the request that have been asked. If they are a simple little thing like "Were looking into it. that does not tell us when it is coming or anything that would break your rule, you have no trouble saying "Were looking into it" when some one ask about a bug.
    It is just that simmer want to be excited about things to come. But we hear nothing. Look how long they have told us that EP3 is coming, but then silence, they tell us nothing. Look how long and how many post are about the coming EP3. We don't even know for a fact if it is coming in Sept, Oct, etc or even this year yet, not a confirmation. Do they think that just telling us that a EP is coming is a good relationship. How about the Brazil leak of City Life, they make no comment on it if it is true or false, they just let us keep posting speculations,
    How about like they have said that the EP3 is coming and say nothing about it. How about just saying toddlers are coming in the future.
    that sounds safe enough to me.
    It is not that we are angry that we do not have toddler or preteens, it is the silence about them. Please let us know one way or the other.



    That's a base game, Planet Coaster? The issue with talking about stuff concerns changes being made to an already released base game. It doesn't affect pre-base game discussion. Discussing anything that's going to be patched into an already released game isn't "safe" outside the same quarter that patching is going to happen in.

    We've been told EP3 is in development many times. Presumably there's a full-on announcement planned... just not till they can say when that release is planned for. If there's associated patched-in content, they probably can't do that till the quarter of release. Of course people want to talk about upcoming content. That doesn't mean that it works out well for Maxis to announce it before they even have a set release date, it doesn't mean that a marketing campaign can be designed to keep interest going for months and months without that campaign being overly expensive for the content. An EP sells at less than the initial base game, and never to as many people; giving it as much marketing and publicity resources as a base game just because ... I don't see it. Honestly, I think more Simmers just need to stop expecting to be constantly fed new info, but only new info about the parts of new game stuff they're interested in.

    Re. Toddlers: Pretty much the only ways they're going to get discussed outside a release quarter (unless they get 100% ruled out and that gets announced) is if they aren't going to get patched in, not even at a very basic level. It's just not going to happen, and saying it should happen over and over again isn't going to change the regulations that make it not an option. And given the role that those regulations can play in fraud-prevention, and in the kinds of larger-scale economic balance things @Scobre talks about, maybe they matter more than knowing earlier about toddlers in a video game does.

    edited to fix italics
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