I've noticed, that most of people, who yell louder than anyone else of how we need disabled sims are NOT disabled. Most of them.
EA says they talk to disabled people, buuut... I think, that they just need to talk to some random disabled people and find out, what they think, not like activists or whoever. Because it's pretty obvious, that disabled activists would love it, but not too many people become activists, there are so many more, who don't.
And again, any disease, or disorder, or disability in most cases is a personal pain. All we need to do is accept those people and erase the line between them and us, healthy (or almost healthy) people not to make them feel "different" and alienated. And it's not about spreading sparkles above someone's head because he's in a weelchair. It's about not paying any attention to the fact he's in a weelchair.
In my country we used to have a very cool social advertising commercial on TV and every video was filmed as a little story, when you see a talented person, surrounded by loving friends and family, and get to know that person, and only in the end you see, that they are disabled. I remember one about a boy on stage called "school rock star", then the show's over and all the school boys and girls carry him in their arms and honor him, but then they get to their classroom and put him back to his weelchair. And every video used to end with their slogan, smth like "Everyone is special. And there's no difference, if he's disabled or not. Because people are not divided that way".
I think they should add disabilities but make it optional. I want diseases as well, but that's a topic for another day...
Stroke, can't use arms? Has to stay in bed someone has to feed them? I've done ask everyone a lot of hard questions, what about Parkinson's disease? Shaking, hallucinates, get's a twitch can't do anything sometimes because of the shaking and twitching. How long do you think somone would play that Sim when trying to use a craft table in game? People are playing games, no, they don't really want real disabilities in the game and complaints would stack up like dead leaves. They are fooling themselves all for the sake of 'inclusiveness'.
The amount of time someone plays with a sim is none of my concern. I'm just saying I want disabilities and diseases, complaints against the sims 4 have been going on since the games inception, so that's nothing new.
Do you really? Do you fret when your Sims take too long mulittasking in TS4? Are you playing in ultra speed? Do you really have the patience to deal with a Sim who can't learn, move, and or even get out of bed? I doubt it. Do you want to see a missing hand? Arm, leg, face? How about missing eyes? Not blind but blown out? Do you want to remember to add the bag to the Sim so they can use the bathroom? Or do you just want a Sim in a wheelchair who can move around as fast an able bodied Sim? Do you want it to take five times longer for a child to do their homework? Or a Sim who can't read or ever learn to read? How about slow, how slow do you want the Sim to be, do you have enough patience without putting the game on fast speed to sit there and wait for them to finish something? I doubt it.
ETA: You guys can't even deal with the toddlers in this game without complaining of how hard they are to play.
These are indeed very valid questions both the devs and the fans have to ask themselves.
and I counted the wheelchair poses over on Lana's site and there are 14 and one of them also includes a dog. There's one visually impaired pose and one temporary disabled pose (crutches)
Maybe people want disabled sims because they themselves are disabled and don't think of their lives asbeing a pity party. A wheelchair is not a limitation of who you are, nor does it have to be depressing. Maybe the most important to them isn't being able to walk but to live a life being accepted for who they are. So when they try to engage in a game of fantasy their fantasy might just be to be who they are , physical limitations and all, and live a full life. Not be told that they have to be physically able to enjoy those things.
Pity Party?
The point is, for this to be done right, then no, we shouldn't see Sims in chairs who just magically teleport from A to B. That's an insult. Because anyone who had to use a chair before knows their muscles become atrophied and they may not have the strength after time to roll that chair. So, just seeing a Sim teleport magically from here to there is an insult to the person who had to make that struggle.
But players don't have the patience to sit and wait for a Sim to struggle to get from A to B. You know that is the truth. The animations would portray things as hunky dory, all rainbows, and that is not the facts. You think people who live in chairs all have access to rehabilitation centers? Or battery powered chairs? Or eveyrone has someone to help them? So, are you expecting this all to be sugar and spice and be really positive? If Maxis wants to the right thing, they would build in every disadvantage, ever daily struggle, and the long periods of time it takes to even sew a button or punch a cell phone / and all struggles a person lives with. No rainbows.
You really don't want to play a real game about those struggles do you? I doubt it. Because we already have people complaining about how much time it takes with the bugged AI recently of Sims just standing there. Well, that's all part of it, too. Don't tell me what a pity party is, when you have invisible walls and your muscles fail to move when your brain is saying move. Nor that it's a pity party to watch your muslces become atrophied.
ETA: Maxis shouldn't be in the teaching (socially acceptable) business. Because if they are, then they need to portray the whole truth.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I think they should add disabilities but make it optional. I want diseases as well, but that's a topic for another day...
Stroke, can't use arms? Has to stay in bed someone has to feed them? I've done ask everyone a lot of hard questions, what about Parkinson's disease? Shaking, hallucinates, get's a twitch can't do anything sometimes because of the shaking and twitching. How long do you think somone would play that Sim when trying to use a craft table in game? People are playing games, no, they don't really want real disabilities in the game and complaints would stack up like dead leaves. They are fooling themselves all for the sake of 'inclusiveness'.
The amount of time someone plays with a sim is none of my concern. I'm just saying I want disabilities and diseases, complaints against the sims 4 have been going on since the games inception, so that's nothing new.
Do you really? Do you fret when your Sims take too long mulittasking in TS4? Are you playing in ultra speed? Do you really have the patience to deal with a Sim who can't learn, move, and or even get out of bed? I doubt it. Do you want to see a missing hand? Arm, leg, face? How about missing eyes? Not blind but blown out? Do you want to remember to add the bag to the Sim so they can use the bathroom? Or do you just want a Sim in a wheelchair who can move around as fast an able bodied Sim? Do you want it to take five times longer for a child to do their homework? Or a Sim who can't read or ever learn to read? How about slow, how slow do you want the Sim to be, do you have enough patience without putting the game on fast speed to sit there and wait for them to finish something? I doubt it.
ETA: You guys can't even deal with the toddlers in this game without complaining of how hard they are to play.
These are indeed very valid questions both the devs and the fans have to ask themselves.
I could deal with that I complain about toddlers but they are the cutest age. I want more consequences in the game and more hardships they would have to overcome. Its boring when your sim can't even die from a sickness. Rodent Illness doesn't count because I don't give my sims pets but like in GTW our sims get sick why can't they get deathly ill from that or why can't sims have a disability they got from birth and have to deal with that in their lives. This game is suppose to be a creative outlet to tell stories that either happen in our real lives or that people just want to tell.
I think they should add disabilities but make it optional. I want diseases as well, but that's a topic for another day...
Stroke, can't use arms? Has to stay in bed someone has to feed them? I've done ask everyone a lot of hard questions, what about Parkinson's disease? Shaking, hallucinates, get's a twitch can't do anything sometimes because of the shaking and twitching. How long do you think somone would play that Sim when trying to use a craft table in game? People are playing games, no, they don't really want real disabilities in the game and complaints would stack up like dead leaves. They are fooling themselves all for the sake of 'inclusiveness'.
The amount of time someone plays with a sim is none of my concern. I'm just saying I want disabilities and diseases, complaints against the sims 4 have been going on since the games inception, so that's nothing new.
Do you really? Do you fret when your Sims take too long mulittasking in TS4? Are you playing in ultra speed? Do you really have the patience to deal with a Sim who can't learn, move, and or even get out of bed? I doubt it. Do you want to see a missing hand? Arm, leg, face? How about missing eyes? Not blind but blown out? Do you want to remember to add the bag to the Sim so they can use the bathroom? Or do you just want a Sim in a wheelchair who can move around as fast an able bodied Sim? Do you want it to take five times longer for a child to do their homework? Or a Sim who can't read or ever learn to read? How about slow, how slow do you want the Sim to be, do you have enough patience without putting the game on fast speed to sit there and wait for them to finish something? I doubt it.
ETA: You guys can't even deal with the toddlers in this game without complaining of how hard they are to play.
These are indeed very valid questions both the devs and the fans have to ask themselves.
I could deal with that I complain about toddlers but they are the cutest age. I want more consequences in the game and more hardships they would have to overcome. Its boring when your sim can't even die from a sickness. Rodent Illness doesn't count because I don't give my sims pets but like in GTW our sims get sick why can't they get deathly ill from that or why can't sims have a disability they got from birth and have to deal with that in their lives. This game is suppose to be a creative outlet to tell stories that either happen in our real lives or that people just want to tell.
The disablity wouldn't show the real struggles and therefore is just propaganda. If we don't have illness that can kill off a Sim what makes you think Maxis would add Sims who can't hardly do or learn anything? They won't, and it will still be a slant of rainbows and unicorns. Because players of today are like hurry up and get me to point B so my Sim can level up. If you leave out simulations and struggles then it's all a big fat lie.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Maybe people want disabled sims because they themselves are disabled and don't think of their lives asbeing a pity party. A wheelchair is not a limitation of who you are, nor does it have to be depressing. Maybe the most important to them isn't being able to walk but to live a life being accepted for who they are. So when they try to engage in a game of fantasy their fantasy might just be to be who they are , physical limitations and all, and live a full life. Not be told that they have to be physically able to enjoy those things.
Pity Party?
The point is, for this to be done right, then no, we shouldn't see Sims in chairs who just magically teleport from A to B. That's an insult. Because anyone who had to use a chair before knows their muscles become atrophied and they may not have the strength after time to roll that chair. So, just seeing a Sim teleport magically from here to there is an insult to the person who had to make that struggle.
But players don't have the patience to sit and wait for a Sim to struggle to get from A to B. You know that is the truth. The animations would portray things as hunky dory, all rainbows, and that is not the facts. You think people who live in chairs all have access to rehabilitation centers? Or battery powered chairs? Or eveyrone has someone to help them? So, are you expecting this all to be sugar and spice and be really positive? If Maxis wants to the right thing, they would build in every disadvantage, ever daily struggle, and the long periods of time it takes to even sew a button or punch a cell phone / and all struggles a person lives with. No rainbows.
You really don't want to play a real game about those struggles do you? I doubt it. Because we already have people complaining about how much time it takes with the bugged AI recently of Sims just standing there. Well, that's all part of it, too. Don't tell me what a pity party is, when you have invisible walls and your muscles fail to move when your brain is saying move. Nor that it's a pity party to watch your muslces become atrophied.
But maybe some do I have a Disability and not ashamed did you know the Xbox One has Disability avatars ? This is the first I Agree on eveyone stances because there really is no right or wrong the real ones who should make the decisions are the advocates who have a Chronic illness or Disability so what I have Seizures I don't care about my problem I focus on my strengths and I wouldn't be ashamed for one moment if I had sims with Disabilities at the end of the day as long as the person is allowed to pick there avatars then thats what matters most. Unless your actually sick or have someone you know that does you can't make the judgment if I were to say with anybody with a Disability I say as quoted "People with Disabilities have their own right to decide what they want in life no one else should make that decision remove the dis and you have ability but to many who don't have disabilities make the Judgments I am tired of the stigma be proud of who you are and decide your own destiny don't let others decide for you"
Now I do agree in programming how do you add diseases there are many and designers only have so many tools I think we aren't at that level quite to incorporate every disease mine is at a cellular level how do you program that you can't.
What I think is at least everyone is having a conversation the sims definitely is bringing new ideas and conversations to our community problem how do you program Dignity for people like me when the sims is a comical , mischief game?
Just by reading this thread I don't see how this can possibly be implemented without it becoming a mine field of disastrous consequences. There are so many types of disability, both visible and not visible with so many varying degrees, I just don't know how a video game manages to implement it without some people feeling unrepresented, and some feeling mocked even. Speaking as someone with disabilities as the result of cancer treatments, I just think it's better not to go there.
Perhaps EA /Mavis needs to step aside from the sims and enter the Health Care system with realistic games with virtually Reality to teach doctors instead there is lots of money in this and so few makers there's money in this field so whether the sims have disabilities or not maybe its time for EA/Mavis to think outside the box and change reality into virtual for teaching purposes not for gamers.
Maybe people want disabled sims because they themselves are disabled and don't think of their lives asbeing a pity party. A wheelchair is not a limitation of who you are, nor does it have to be depressing. Maybe the most important to them isn't being able to walk but to live a life being accepted for who they are. So when they try to engage in a game of fantasy their fantasy might just be to be who they are , physical limitations and all, and live a full life. Not be told that they have to be physically able to enjoy those things.
Pity Party?
The point is, for this to be done right, then no, we shouldn't see Sims in chairs who just magically teleport from A to B. That's an insult. Because anyone who had to use a chair before knows their muscles become atrophied and they may not have the strength after time to roll that chair. So, just seeing a Sim teleport magically from here to there is an insult to the person who had to make that struggle.
But players don't have the patience to sit and wait for a Sim to struggle to get from A to B. You know that is the truth. The animations would portray things as hunky dory, all rainbows, and that is not the facts. You think people who live in chairs all have access to rehabilitation centers? Or battery powered chairs? Or eveyrone has someone to help them? So, are you expecting this all to be sugar and spice and be really positive? If Maxis wants to the right thing, they would build in every disadvantage, ever daily struggle, and the long periods of time it takes to even sew a button or punch a cell phone / and all struggles a person lives with. No rainbows.
You really don't want to play a real game about those struggles do you? I doubt it. Because we already have people complaining about how much time it takes with the bugged AI recently of Sims just standing there. Well, that's all part of it, too. Don't tell me what a pity party is, when you have invisible walls and your muscles fail to move when your brain is saying move. Nor that it's a pity party to watch your muslces become atrophied.
But maybe some do I have a Disability and not ashamed did you know the Xbox One has Disability avatars ? This is the first I Agree on eveyone stances because there really is no right or wrong the real ones who should make the decisions are the advocates who have a Chronic illness or Disability so what I have Seizures I don't care about my problem I focus on my strengths and I wouldn't be ashamed for one moment if I had sims with Disabilities at the end of the day as long as the person is allowed to pick there avatars then thats what matters most. Unless your actually sick or have someone you know that does you can't make the judgment if I were to say with anybody with a Disability I say as quoted "People with Disabilities have their own right to decide what they want in life no one else should make that decision remove the dis and you have ability but to many who don't have disabilities make the Judgments I am tired of the stigma be proud of who you are and decide your own destiny don't let others decide for you"
Now I do agree in programming how do you add diseases there are many and designers only have so many tools I think we aren't at that level quite to incorporate every disease mine is at a cellular level how do you program that you can't.
What I think is at least everyone is having a conversation the sims definitely is bringing new ideas and conversations to our community problem how do you program Dignity for people like me when the sims is a comical , mischief game?
What makes you think I don't have any mobile issues or other problems. Or members of my family? Because I never mention them? But being part of that community, I have said no to this and gave my reasons of why I play the series (all of them) to live in the games what I can't do in real life and don't want to be reminded when I load a game. Unless it is a mature game dealing with those very issues. TS4 is not the right place at all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Maybe people want disabled sims because they themselves are disabled and don't think of their lives asbeing a pity party. A wheelchair is not a limitation of who you are, nor does it have to be depressing. Maybe the most important to them isn't being able to walk but to live a life being accepted for who they are. So when they try to engage in a game of fantasy their fantasy might just be to be who they are , physical limitations and all, and live a full life. Not be told that they have to be physically able to enjoy those things.
Pity Party?
The point is, for this to be done right, then no, we shouldn't see Sims in chairs who just magically teleport from A to B. That's an insult. Because anyone who had to use a chair before knows their muscles become atrophied and they may not have the strength after time to roll that chair. So, just seeing a Sim teleport magically from here to there is an insult to the person who had to make that struggle.
But players don't have the patience to sit and wait for a Sim to struggle to get from A to B. You know that is the truth. The animations would portray things as hunky dory, all rainbows, and that is not the facts. You think people who live in chairs all have access to rehabilitation centers? Or battery powered chairs? Or eveyrone has someone to help them? So, are you expecting this all to be sugar and spice and be really positive? If Maxis wants to the right thing, they would build in every disadvantage, ever daily struggle, and the long periods of time it takes to even sew a button or punch a cell phone / and all struggles a person lives with. No rainbows.
You really don't want to play a real game about those struggles do you? I doubt it. Because we already have people complaining about how much time it takes with the bugged AI recently of Sims just standing there. Well, that's all part of it, too. Don't tell me what a pity party is, when you have invisible walls and your muscles fail to move when your brain is saying move. Nor that it's a pity party to watch your muslces become atrophied.
But maybe some do I have a Disability and not ashamed did you know the Xbox One has Disability avatars ? This is the first I Agree on eveyone stances because there really is no right or wrong the real ones who should make the decisions are the advocates who have a Chronic illness or Disability so what I have Seizures I don't care about my problem I focus on my strengths and I wouldn't be ashamed for one moment if I had sims with Disabilities at the end of the day as long as the person is allowed to pick there avatars then thats what matters most. Unless your actually sick or have someone you know that does you can't make the judgment if I were to say with anybody with a Disability I say as quoted "People with Disabilities have their own right to decide what they want in life no one else should make that decision remove the dis and you have ability but to many who don't have disabilities make the Judgments I am tired of the stigma be proud of who you are and decide your own destiny don't let others decide for you"
Now I do agree in programming how do you add diseases there are many and designers only have so many tools I think we aren't at that level quite to incorporate every disease mine is at a cellular level how do you program that you can't.
What I think is at least everyone is having a conversation the sims definitely is bringing new ideas and conversations to our community problem how do you program Dignity for people like me when the sims is a comical , mischief game?
What makes you think I don't have any mobile issues or other problems. Because I never mention them? But be part of that community I have said no this and gave my reasons of why I play the series (all of them) to live in the games what I can't do in real life and don't want to be reminded when I load a game. Unless it is a mature game dealing with those very issues.
I Agree with you its not a debate its about creating a game that is Dignity for others we don't want programmers creating the wrong idea of Disease or Disabilities. The sims ain't a game design for storytelling of Disease or Disabilities its about having fun.
I can understand wanting to see someone like yourself in general, but including the dark and painful aspects just wouldn't add any benefit to the fun of the game, so I think that level of it would be more of a drawback than a benefit.
In real life, it might take 30 minutes just to walk across the room to the bathroom for a person who can't afford a wheelchair but still has to go the bathroom. Once they get to the bathroom, they are in too much pain to deal with their own clothing, and have to have someone help them. On days when the pain is too great, they can't make themselves food or get themselves something to drink because they can't even get out of bed. Because typing can be too painful for some, they have to use the onscreen keyboard, or go without communicating or using the computer until they get lucky and feel better enough that they can. Which sometimes can be forever.
There are a lot of things like this that would just add no benefit to being played out in a game, have no entertainment value whatsoever, and yes, they could make the game feel like a sad and depressing place to be if we were to start seeing it everywhere like with the sick pets.
I'm all for basic things like wheelchairs and motor chairs and general things of that nature. Basic aids for blind people, and things like that. But I think that going beyond a general surface might be a mistake, could never please everybody, and could end up taking things in the wrong direction because they took it too far and it backfired. Things like that should be left up to the individual to work into their gameplay using the already available game structures, because there's no way to emulate every tiny thing, and close enough in general is as good as they could realistically do with it.
I can understand wanting to see someone like yourself in general, but including the dark and painful aspects just wouldn't add any benefit to the fun of the game, so I think that level of it would be more of a drawback than a benefit.
In real life, it might take 30 minutes just to walk across the room to the bathroom for a person who can't afford a wheelchair but still has to go the bathroom. Once they get to the bathroom, they are in too much pain to deal with their own clothing, and have to have someone help them. On days when the pain is too great, they can't make themselves food or get themselves something to drink because they can't even get out of bed. Because typing can be too painful for some, they have to use the onscreen keyboard, or go without communicating or using the computer until they get lucky and feel better enough that they can. Which sometimes can be forever.
There are a lot of things like this that would just add no benefit to being played out in a game, have no entertainment value whatsoever, and yes, they could make the game feel like a sad and depressing place to be if we were to start seeing it everywhere like with the sick pets.
I'm all for basic things like wheelchairs and motor chairs and general things of that nature. Basic aids for blind people, and things like that. But I think that going beyond a general surface might be a mistake, could never please everybody, and could end up taking things in the wrong direction because they took it too far and it backfired. Things like that should be left up to the individual to work into their gameplay using the already available game structures, because there's no way to emulate every tiny thing, and close enough in general is as good as they could realistically do with it.
I don't believe they would even tackle the hardships. .. or should. I think the main reason would be to represent in some way a segment of the population. Maybe to help dispel stereotypes... to give at least some representation that it's here. Disabled people are us or could be us. They are members of our families and extended families. They want all the things we do. Sure the game would show it all of this in more in a positive light. It does that with everything... that's a whole other reason to have an issue with the Sims though or at least Sims 4. One I don't go along with that opinion personally but it's out there.
It would be up to us as simmers to represent a disability differently if we chose. It might be up to us if we have those tools in our game to mod in things that won't be shown in the sims much like anything rated above teen most certainly wouldn't be shown in the games.
I can see modders extending this.. some in a positive way and some going the realistic route. That's okay download what makes it work for you in your game.
For those afraid that it will be mocked... guess what, it probably will in private games or in some stories. You can't stop the way people are, or where they are in their life and maybe that in itself will be some sort of teaching lesson for them later. In public though to do that would bring much fury down on those that attempted that without that being the story that is portrayed.
For instance I haven't seen any popular you tube videos that mock transgender folks without their being a story behind that that is specifically about that. There might be an audience for that.. but I'm pretty sure those that do it aren't accepted generally.
I'm of the mind that they shouldn't represent realistic mental problems at all.... there are too many and it could be a mine field. Traits could be made ... especially by modders to represent these if they aren't already in our game or don't show up as time goes on. A lot of those are already out there by the way.
I just see bringing some aspects of disability in this "game" being .. history making. I'm all for it if it happens. I'm not an activist.. I'm not very politically minded actually. I tend to be all over the place in that respect. It just seems like the right thing to do for me.
Well people may think it's shallow and that's their issue.. but the way I would suggest pulling it off is to just animate around the implement needed for a physically disabled sim to be mobile.
I think you are drastically underestimating how much time and energy it would take to animate around the issues. Animations are one of the more complex and involved steps in making any video game. I wouldn't be against including it if some programming fairies left a drive full of animations lying around, but tying up developers on mobility animations means that they're not working on other things.
More gameplay options are always good; just because I don't use a feature doesn't mean that no one should have access to it.
The basic concept here is opportunity cost. Making a complete set of animations for wheelchairs, walkers, canes and crutches is a monster amount of work. We're not saying that we don't want you to have the option as a matter of principle. Instead, we're saying that the time spent on that is time spent not making something like University or Magic.
If you asked people whether they'd prefer a disabilities pack or a magic pack, I'd wager that magic would come out far ahead. Since other options would be more popular, would sell better, and would be much less likely to be accidentally offensive, I think that other options would be a much better use of developer resources.
I've noticed, that most of people, who yell louder than anyone else of how we need disabled sims are NOT disabled. Most of them.
EA says they talk to disabled people, buuut... I think, that they just need to talk to some random disabled people and find out, what they think, not like activists or whoever. Because it's pretty obvious, that disabled activists would love it, but not too many people become activists, there are so many more, who don't.
And again, any disease, or disorder, or disability in most cases is a personal pain. All we need to do is accept those people and erase the line between them and us, healthy (or almost healthy) people not to make them feel "different" and alienated. And it's not about spreading sparkles above someone's head because he's in a weelchair. It's about not paying any attention to the fact he's in a weelchair.
In my country we used to have a very cool social advertising commercial on TV and every video was filmed as a little story, when you see a talented person, surrounded by loving friends and family, and get to know that person, and only in the end you see, that they are disabled. I remember one about a boy on stage called "school rock star", then the show's over and all the school boys and girls carry him in their arms and honor him, but then they get to their classroom and put him back to his weelchair. And every video used to end with their slogan, smth like "Everyone is special. And there's no difference, if he's disabled or not. Because people are not divided that way".
I agree I don't think the activists are the ones they should be talking to
I'd prefer not to have permanent disability in the game, except perhaps a "needs glasses" trait.
What I would like to see is:
broken bones that need casts/crutches
canes for elders
acne for teenagers (not just in CAS)
"Sometimer's" for elders (forgetfulness)
Now I love this idea lets not forget toddlers get into allot of trouble climbing tree's etc. having casts for sims would be simple to program its almost like a sock or glove type of Mod that could be developed your ideas are simple but They are out of the box I give your ideas ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ five stars the team should adopt this idea.
The reason I edited this is to let people know what this Young Simmer said, She said she likes playing the Sims also a different game, She must use a special controller. I think she uses her eyes if I remember correctly. She enjoys not having a disability in the game. She also said she would feel more accepted if they would add Disability to the Sims Like it was ok to be her. For this reason, I feel all that do not want it could back off, me too and listen to this teen She is a Simmer just like us. She does count very much.
Question is the plans to put disability in the game truly helping the Disable or is it just an illusion of help when it's not helping them at all.
Why Don't EA/Maxis put their money and time in truly helping the disable with controllers that will help the disable play? https://youtu.be/isEfnEPoSE0
But this young teen does want it added to the sims, so let us do it.
Post edited by Stormsview on
we'll give you a full refund. Just make sure you make your request within 24 hours after you first launch the game, within seven days from your date of purchase, or within seven days from the game's release date if you pre-ordered, whichever comes first.
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
I hope when they add them it'll be made up illnesses like with Pets.
I have been on disability for years but I do not feel like it's a special attritbute or needs to be represented. I feel like people nowadays accentuate these things too much. I'm literally a regular person. Every. Single. Person. on this planet has a health. So mine is a little worse than some others'? It's really not a special thing. I don't need any kind of inclusiveness or representation cause I really do not care. And it's weird when people with no disabilities start saying people with disabilities need representation. Can you speak for yourself please My health does NOT set me apart from anyone cause as said, EVERYONE's got a health on this planet - humans, animals, plants, even inanimate things.
I think they should add disabilities but make it optional. I want diseases as well, but that's a topic for another day...
Stroke, can't use arms? Has to stay in bed someone has to feed them? I've done ask everyone a lot of hard questions, what about Parkinson's disease? Shaking, hallucinates, get's a twitch can't do anything sometimes because of the shaking and twitching. How long do you think somone would play that Sim when trying to use a craft table in game? People are playing games, no, they don't really want real disabilities in the game and complaints would stack up like dead leaves. They are fooling themselves all for the sake of 'inclusiveness'.
The amount of time someone plays with a sim is none of my concern. I'm just saying I want disabilities and diseases, complaints against the sims 4 have been going on since the games inception, so that's nothing new.
Do you really? Do you fret when your Sims take too long mulittasking in TS4? Are you playing in ultra speed? Do you really have the patience to deal with a Sim who can't learn, move, and or even get out of bed? I doubt it. Do you want to see a missing hand? Arm, leg, face? How about missing eyes? Not blind but blown out? Do you want to remember to add the bag to the Sim so they can use the bathroom? Or do you just want a Sim in a wheelchair who can move around as fast an able bodied Sim? Do you want it to take five times longer for a child to do their homework? Or a Sim who can't read or ever learn to read? How about slow, how slow do you want the Sim to be, do you have enough patience without putting the game on fast speed to sit there and wait for them to finish something? I doubt it.
ETA: You guys can't even deal with the toddlers in this game without complaining of how hard they are to play.
These are indeed very valid questions both the devs and the fans have to ask themselves.
I could deal with that I complain about toddlers but they are the cutest age. I want more consequences in the game and more hardships they would have to overcome. Its boring when your sim can't even die from a sickness. Rodent Illness doesn't count because I don't give my sims pets but like in GTW our sims get sick why can't they get deathly ill from that or why can't sims have a disability they got from birth and have to deal with that in their lives. This game is suppose to be a creative outlet to tell stories that either happen in our real lives or that people just want to tell.
The disablity wouldn't show the real struggles and therefore is just propaganda. If we don't have illness that can kill off a Sim what makes you think Maxis would add Sims who can't hardly do or learn anything? They won't, and it will still be a slant of rainbows and unicorns. Because players of today are like hurry up and get me to point B so my Sim can level up. If you leave out simulations and struggles then it's all a big fat lie.
Cine I get what you are saying but Grant already said he wanted to try to give us disabilities or this topic wouldn't exist. I personally would like more consequence in my game and as for disabilities if they study it and get simmers feed back I think it could add more to the game. I know that most people are against the idea of having them and that is fine but like I have said before this game should be about people telling stories about anything they want to. Even if you are gay straight transgender or have a disability the sims is a creative tool to tell those stories and that is why people want disabilities in the game. I personally struggle with having my back bone and neck bone fused together and I can't move my neck like others can. I also have a learning disability that makes it hard to get a job and work there like a normal person would I need help comprehending things I am slower at learning things then others. So yes I want disabilities in the game I might not use them for all my sim but I love to tell different stories and stories that would raise the rating of the game. But that is what makes the sims unique that you should be able to tell any story you want if its fictional or about your own life.
The "Sadie" story someone posted earlier on the thread. Instead of what people assumed that the child would be bullied because their parent was different and would want to drown the simself of their mother. It would be more like relative (Grandparent, uncle/aunt) saying nasty stuff (talking baby talk, saying that Sadie shouldn't be able to live,etc) to the disabled "Sadie" or the child about Sadie or "helping" Sadie even though she doesn't want to be help. which might make another relative (cousin?) drown or otherwise make dead a simself of their aunt. This could also go to the bullies' families in the person's story.
I think they would be rather difficult to include. How would you animate it? What do you include? @Cinebar is right. It would be fine if the pumped up Get to Work with some added fictitious illnesses and such, but I wouldn't add things like down syndrome, etc. The game is supposed to be a spoof on reality. Not reality itself.
But some people take as a serious game and want the realism in their games.
In that case, where are my drums. where are my monotremes? where are my aussie style schools and universities, and timtams, and lamingtons, and lamb for the bbq, and lamb for the back yard, and pumpkins for roasting and soupmaking (but never carving nor pies, lamb is for pies). Where's the pies with dead 'orse? where's the sausage rolls? where's the pavlova? Where's the sandman?
My realism may not be anything at all like your realism.
My disability is not like many others. Mine is invisible. How would you include that?
I want silliness in the game when it comes to illness and disease. I want the occasional broken bone, when a sim child falls from a bunkbed or playground. I want illnesses that require your sim to go to hospital for a day or two. I want a lighter side of life, not the misery and depression that most often come with real world disabilities.
You can have some realism, without being bogged down in depressingly serious reality, and the best way to do it is with illnesses and injury, but not life long disabilities.
I think they would be rather difficult to include. How would you animate it? What do you include? @Cinebar is right. It would be fine if the pumped up Get to Work with some added fictitious illnesses and such, but I wouldn't add things like down syndrome, etc. The game is supposed to be a spoof on reality. Not reality itself.
But some people take as a serious game and want the realism in their games.
In that case, where are my drums. where are my monotremes? where are my aussie style schools and universities, and timtams, and lamingtons, and lamb for the bbq, and lamb for the back yard, and pumpkins for roasting and soupmaking (but never carving nor pies, lamb is for pies). Where's the pies with dead 'orse? where's the sausage rolls? where's the pavlova? Where's the sandman?
My realism may not be anything at all like your realism.
My disability is not like many others. Mine is invisible. How would you include that?
I want silliness in the game when it comes to illness and disease. I want the occasional broken bone, when a sim child falls from a bunkbed or playground. I want illnesses that require your sim to go to hospital for a day or two. I want a lighter side of life, not the misery and depression that most often come with real world disabilities.
You can have some realism, without being bogged down in depressingly serious reality, and the best way to do it is with illnesses and injury, but not life long disabilities.
@Movotti I understand where you are coming from and I said some people take the game seriously I am not one of those people. I want the game to be silly to but I can also understand people who want the disabilities in their game. In the grand scheme of things there will always be features in the game people will dislike and if they added it that would be one of them. But some people would love them in the game to tell their story. I just like silly drama soap operaish stories in my game and I use the game to escape real life. But I wouldn’t be against having disabilities or consequences in my game it would just add more to my soap opera storytelling.
I would love to see this as an option or, a separate pack, like a Stuff Pack, Because all Simmers should have a choice of whether to have it in their game or not. This should never be a free update or forced on any Simmers, therefore, respecting the wishes of all Simmers.
we'll give you a full refund. Just make sure you make your request within 24 hours after you first launch the game, within seven days from your date of purchase, or within seven days from the game's release date if you pre-ordered, whichever comes first.
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
Comments
Completely agree
https://www.lds.org/topics/disability/list?lang=eng&old=true
https://reddit.com/r/thesims/comments/6p5f0u/disability_and_the_sims/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sims4/comments/6a0y57/where_are_the_sims_with_disabilities/
Note quite the same thing as requesting Sims with disability
https://sims-online.com/sims-4-building-challenge-disability-simproved/
here's a thread from back in 2015 from the site itself
https://forums.thesims.com/en_us/discussion/818050/wheelchairs
2016
https://forums.thesims.com/EN_US/discussion/876061/special-needs
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/718812/disabilities
from Sims 3 area
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/105207/no-handicapped-sims/p1
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/683214/ideal-additions-for-ts4
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/742534/hearing-aids-for-sims
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/685713/ignore-this-no-upset-was-intended
and I counted the wheelchair poses over on Lana's site and there are 14 and one of them also includes a dog. There's one visually impaired pose and one temporary disabled pose (crutches)
someone who thread got deleted
https://answers.ea.com/t5/Technical-Issues-PC/The-Sims-4-forum-Disability-discrimination-and-no-one-cares/td-p/5431402
basically on most forums I been on there's been at least one thread about disabilities in the sims
https://sims4forum.com/threads/sims-4-wheelchairs-and-disabilities.713/
Pity Party?
The point is, for this to be done right, then no, we shouldn't see Sims in chairs who just magically teleport from A to B. That's an insult. Because anyone who had to use a chair before knows their muscles become atrophied and they may not have the strength after time to roll that chair. So, just seeing a Sim teleport magically from here to there is an insult to the person who had to make that struggle.
But players don't have the patience to sit and wait for a Sim to struggle to get from A to B. You know that is the truth. The animations would portray things as hunky dory, all rainbows, and that is not the facts. You think people who live in chairs all have access to rehabilitation centers? Or battery powered chairs? Or eveyrone has someone to help them? So, are you expecting this all to be sugar and spice and be really positive? If Maxis wants to the right thing, they would build in every disadvantage, ever daily struggle, and the long periods of time it takes to even sew a button or punch a cell phone / and all struggles a person lives with. No rainbows.
You really don't want to play a real game about those struggles do you? I doubt it. Because we already have people complaining about how much time it takes with the bugged AI recently of Sims just standing there. Well, that's all part of it, too. Don't tell me what a pity party is, when you have invisible walls and your muscles fail to move when your brain is saying move. Nor that it's a pity party to watch your muslces become atrophied.
ETA: Maxis shouldn't be in the teaching (socially acceptable) business. Because if they are, then they need to portray the whole truth.
The disablity wouldn't show the real struggles and therefore is just propaganda. If we don't have illness that can kill off a Sim what makes you think Maxis would add Sims who can't hardly do or learn anything? They won't, and it will still be a slant of rainbows and unicorns. Because players of today are like hurry up and get me to point B so my Sim can level up. If you leave out simulations and struggles then it's all a big fat lie.
But maybe some do I have a Disability and not ashamed did you know the Xbox One has Disability avatars ? This is the first I Agree on eveyone stances because there really is no right or wrong the real ones who should make the decisions are the advocates who have a Chronic illness or Disability so what I have Seizures I don't care about my problem I focus on my strengths and I wouldn't be ashamed for one moment if I had sims with Disabilities at the end of the day as long as the person is allowed to pick there avatars then thats what matters most. Unless your actually sick or have someone you know that does you can't make the judgment if I were to say with anybody with a Disability I say as quoted "People with Disabilities have their own right to decide what they want in life no one else should make that decision remove the dis and you have ability but to many who don't have disabilities make the Judgments I am tired of the stigma be proud of who you are and decide your own destiny don't let others decide for you"
Now I do agree in programming how do you add diseases there are many and designers only have so many tools I think we aren't at that level quite to incorporate every disease mine is at a cellular level how do you program that you can't.
What I think is at least everyone is having a conversation the sims definitely is bringing new ideas and conversations to our community problem how do you program Dignity for people like me when the sims is a comical , mischief game?
What makes you think I don't have any mobile issues or other problems. Or members of my family? Because I never mention them? But being part of that community, I have said no to this and gave my reasons of why I play the series (all of them) to live in the games what I can't do in real life and don't want to be reminded when I load a game. Unless it is a mature game dealing with those very issues. TS4 is not the right place at all.
I Agree with you its not a debate its about creating a game that is Dignity for others we don't want programmers creating the wrong idea of Disease or Disabilities. The sims ain't a game design for storytelling of Disease or Disabilities its about having fun.
In real life, it might take 30 minutes just to walk across the room to the bathroom for a person who can't afford a wheelchair but still has to go the bathroom. Once they get to the bathroom, they are in too much pain to deal with their own clothing, and have to have someone help them. On days when the pain is too great, they can't make themselves food or get themselves something to drink because they can't even get out of bed. Because typing can be too painful for some, they have to use the onscreen keyboard, or go without communicating or using the computer until they get lucky and feel better enough that they can. Which sometimes can be forever.
There are a lot of things like this that would just add no benefit to being played out in a game, have no entertainment value whatsoever, and yes, they could make the game feel like a sad and depressing place to be if we were to start seeing it everywhere like with the sick pets.
I'm all for basic things like wheelchairs and motor chairs and general things of that nature. Basic aids for blind people, and things like that. But I think that going beyond a general surface might be a mistake, could never please everybody, and could end up taking things in the wrong direction because they took it too far and it backfired. Things like that should be left up to the individual to work into their gameplay using the already available game structures, because there's no way to emulate every tiny thing, and close enough in general is as good as they could realistically do with it.
I don't believe they would even tackle the hardships. .. or should. I think the main reason would be to represent in some way a segment of the population. Maybe to help dispel stereotypes... to give at least some representation that it's here. Disabled people are us or could be us. They are members of our families and extended families. They want all the things we do. Sure the game would show it all of this in more in a positive light. It does that with everything... that's a whole other reason to have an issue with the Sims though or at least Sims 4. One I don't go along with that opinion personally but it's out there.
It would be up to us as simmers to represent a disability differently if we chose. It might be up to us if we have those tools in our game to mod in things that won't be shown in the sims much like anything rated above teen most certainly wouldn't be shown in the games.
I can see modders extending this.. some in a positive way and some going the realistic route. That's okay download what makes it work for you in your game.
For those afraid that it will be mocked... guess what, it probably will in private games or in some stories. You can't stop the way people are, or where they are in their life and maybe that in itself will be some sort of teaching lesson for them later. In public though to do that would bring much fury down on those that attempted that without that being the story that is portrayed.
For instance I haven't seen any popular you tube videos that mock transgender folks without their being a story behind that that is specifically about that. There might be an audience for that.. but I'm pretty sure those that do it aren't accepted generally.
I'm of the mind that they shouldn't represent realistic mental problems at all.... there are too many and it could be a mine field. Traits could be made ... especially by modders to represent these if they aren't already in our game or don't show up as time goes on. A lot of those are already out there by the way.
I just see bringing some aspects of disability in this "game" being .. history making. I'm all for it if it happens. I'm not an activist.. I'm not very politically minded actually. I tend to be all over the place in that respect. It just seems like the right thing to do for me.
I agree
I agree I don't think the activists are the ones they should be talking to
I'd prefer not to have permanent disability in the game, except perhaps a "needs glasses" trait.
What I would like to see is:
The reason I edited this is to let people know what this Young Simmer said, She said she likes playing the Sims also a different game, She must use a special controller. I think she uses her eyes if I remember correctly. She enjoys not having a disability in the game. She also said she would feel more accepted if they would add Disability to the Sims Like it was ok to be her. For this reason, I feel all that do not want it could back off, me too and listen to this teen She is a Simmer just like us. She does count very much.
Question is the plans to put disability in the game truly helping the Disable or is it just an illusion of help when it's not helping them at all.
Why Don't EA/Maxis put their money and time in truly helping the disable with controllers that will help the disable play?
But this young teen does want it added to the sims, so let us do it.
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
I have been on disability for years but I do not feel like it's a special attritbute or needs to be represented. I feel like people nowadays accentuate these things too much. I'm literally a regular person. Every. Single. Person. on this planet has a health. So mine is a little worse than some others'? It's really not a special thing. I don't need any kind of inclusiveness or representation cause I really do not care. And it's weird when people with no disabilities start saying people with disabilities need representation. Can you speak for yourself please
My realism may not be anything at all like your realism.
My disability is not like many others. Mine is invisible. How would you include that?
I want silliness in the game when it comes to illness and disease. I want the occasional broken bone, when a sim child falls from a bunkbed or playground. I want illnesses that require your sim to go to hospital for a day or two. I want a lighter side of life, not the misery and depression that most often come with real world disabilities.
You can have some realism, without being bogged down in depressingly serious reality, and the best way to do it is with illnesses and injury, but not life long disabilities.
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor