I think a lot of you here have very thought through and valid points, both for and against and the different reasons why, and I agree with you all, in different ways, especially on implementation methods.
But I think a note on "representation" is needed:
It is not to be understood as a want for visual identity or the need to give someone else that, like a box to be ticked, in the self-imposed norm's peripheral vision - it is a complete rewrite of the map, to take into account the actual complexity that is, any, society.
In my city, half a million citizens, there are 169 nationalities, people on motorized wheel chairs driving on bike lanes, crying teenagers fiddling with their phone sitting on the curb, a huge hospital with a psychiatric ER, a large youthful community of feminists, a even larger queer one. There are students, poor people, families, both rainbow and not, academics, people without work, people on extended sick leave etc, and these categories, and others, are too blunt to come close to an actual understanding of the people therein.
When it comes to game play of The Sims (3), the offence is, more than anything else, that I am to agree with that the chosen sims, with their looks, behaviour and limitations, are what is considered "fun", "okey", "common", and mostly: "neutral".
Even if a norm, seen as concept, is an unmarked category, it does not mean that it is never represented in real life, and for me, that person would never be my choice of company, interest or any kind of focus except critically in an analysis.
So to be expected to accept that kind of 'representation' in a game I play for fun, is ironic. Any kind of diversity that is managable within the game engine frames would be better than that, simply because it, actually, would be more fun.
I think a lot of you here have very thought through and valid points, both for and against and the different reasons why, and I agree with you all, in different ways, especially on implementation methods.
But I think a note on "representation" is needed:
It is not to be understood as a want for visual identity or the need to give someone else that, like a box to be ticked, in the self-imposed norm's peripheral vision - it is a complete rewrite of the map, to take into account the actual complexity that is, any, society.
In my city, half a million citizens, there are 169 nationalities, people on motorized wheel chairs driving on bike lanes, crying teenagers fiddling with their phone sitting on the curb, a huge hospital with a psychiatric ER, a large youthful community of feminists, a even larger queer one. There are students, poor people, families, both rainbow and not, academics, people without work, people on extended sick leave etc, and these categories, and others, are too blunt to come close to an actual understanding of the people therein.
When it comes to game play of The Sims (3), the offence is, more than anything else, that I am to agree with that the chosen sims, with their looks, behaviour and limitations, are what is considered "fun", "okey", "common", and mostly: "neutral".
Even if a norm, seen as concept, is an unmarked category, it does not mean that it is never represented in real life, and for me, that person would never be my choice of company, interest or any kind of focus except critically in an analysis.
So to be expected to accept that kind of 'representation' in a game I play for fun, is ironic. Any kind of diversity that is managable within the game engine frames would be better than that, simply because it, actually, would be more fun.
Play with life?
@Auroraskies I might want to add to your comment -despite the fact we might or might not want disabilities in the game for whatever our reasons are. We can't forget about the fact that a person isn't disabled today, one might be tomorrow or 5-50 years from now but the point is at *some* point people will be disabled-if a person isn't currently.
I much rather have Sims version of disabilities which might seem rude to some people rather then the stereotypes of disabled people we have had in stories either a)temporary disabled (Clara from Heidi or Colin from The Secret Garden) or evil (Pirates: Captain Hook from Peter Pan or Long John Silver from Treasure Island) the only good full disabled characters I could technically find were superhero like (MCU only)-Xavier from X-men, and the Avengers with the exception of Thor and Captain America (and the Guardians of the Galaxary) if we look at the others minus Thor and Captian America we have: Iron Man (needs an artificial heart or something in order to live), Hulk=seems to be on the autistic spectrum-he can be plain old Bruce Banner but once he gets "overloaded" by something he turns into this big Green mean monster (so I conifer Hulk to be a cross between Austic person and Frankenstein), what's her name who was in Iron Man 2-in another movie she gets her own powers I think? Nick Fury who isn't a superhero but he's disabled as well because he can't see with one eye (eye patch).
I think a lot of you here have very thought through and valid points, both for and against and the different reasons why, and I agree with you all, in different ways, especially on implementation methods.
But I think a note on "representation" is needed:
It is not to be understood as a want for visual identity or the need to give someone else that, like a box to be ticked, in the self-imposed norm's peripheral vision - it is a complete rewrite of the map, to take into account the actual complexity that is, any, society.
In my city, half a million citizens, there are 169 nationalities, people on motorized wheel chairs driving on bike lanes, crying teenagers fiddling with their phone sitting on the curb, a huge hospital with a psychiatric ER, a large youthful community of feminists, a even larger queer one. There are students, poor people, families, both rainbow and not, academics, people without work, people on extended sick leave etc, and these categories, and others, are too blunt to come close to an actual understanding of the people therein.
When it comes to game play of The Sims (3), the offence is, more than anything else, that I am to agree with that the chosen sims, with their looks, behaviour and limitations, are what is considered "fun", "okey", "common", and mostly: "neutral".
Even if a norm, seen as concept, is an unmarked category, it does not mean that it is never represented in real life, and for me, that person would never be my choice of company, interest or any kind of focus except critically in an analysis.
So to be expected to accept that kind of 'representation' in a game I play for fun, is ironic. Any kind of diversity that is managable within the game engine frames would be better than that, simply because it, actually, would be more fun.
Play with life?
@Auroraskies I might want to add to your comment -despite the fact we might or might not want disabilities in the game for whatever our reasons are. We can't forget about the fact that a person isn't disabled today, one might be tomorrow or 5-50 years from now but the point is at *some* point people will be disabled-if a person isn't currently.
I much rather have Sims version of disabilities which might seem rude to some people rather then the stereotypes of disabled people we have had in stories either a)temporary disabled (Clara from Heidi or Colin from The Secret Garden) or evil (Pirates: Captain Hook from Peter Pan or Long John Silver from Treasure Island) the only good full disabled characters I could technically find were superhero like (MCU only)-Xavier from X-men, and the Avengers with the exception of Thor and Captain America (and the Guardians of the Galaxary) if we look at the others minus Thor and Captian America we have: Iron Man (needs an artificial heart or something in order to live), Hulk=seems to be on the autistic spectrum-he can be plain old Bruce Banner but once he gets "overloaded" by something he turns into this big Green mean monster (so I conifer Hulk to be a cross between Austic person and Frankenstein), what's her name who was in Iron Man 2-in another movie she gets her own powers I think? Nick Fury who isn't a superhero but he's disabled as well because he can't see with one eye (eye patch).
Those are comic book superheros. Not people with real disabilities vs the sims. You can't really compare the two. Disabilities in comicbook are more acceptablle because they are not real, and do not have anything to do with how we handle the dignity of a real person. I have never met a mutant.
But wasn't the Unstable trait like a disability because you had to send to your sim to the hospital to help your sim not get worse. That was in 3 in one of the packs. Not that I would want then to implement disabilities in traits. But we have already kind of had a disability in the game.
I had a neurotic Coward once in Sims 3 - that one was interesting until their constant passing out or checking the stove drove me nuts. I do like to sometime try crazy trait combinations but my long range games always have a more stable number of Sims with the more normal traits unless it's just tied to a particular Sim or sims family that's part of maybe my story in that game. I never make them Legacies - for sure. I would not want them ever mandatory - it needs to be optional for me anyway.
I don't recall sending a sim to the hospital though to overcome anything - so perhaps I never used that trait.
I do recall sending sims in Sims 2 to the Psychiatrist in game when they would get a bit crazy - but not in Sims 3 that I recall. In Sims 2 I don't believe it was highly trait related just having a hard life at times. Yes family sims would get weird with no baby, and people wanting to be rich got weird over no money and such so they worked with trait but it was work out- a -ble in that game. That was fun as it was unplanned though unlike full traits instability..
This trait came with Into The Future and this was the description:
Unstable
Lifetime Wishes: None
Unstable Sims will often wake up with the Out of Sorts negative moodlet. If this Moodlet isn't cured within 6 hours by self-clicking the Sim to breathe through a paper bag (Take Deep Breaths) or a trip to the hospital to be admitted for instability (free), then it will get worse. A -40 4h moodlet 'Impending Episode' will appear, and if this is not cured, the Sim's Traits will randomly change. One or all of the traits may disappear or change entirely. You have 24h to cure this with a trip to the hospital, else the Trait changes become permanent. It is definitely an odd trait to pick that can lead to interesting gameplay results, though it will definitely present a challenge if you never seek treatment. The only Trait that seems to be exempt from changing is Unstable itself.
Game Description
Upon waking up in the morning while in a bad mood, your Sim may feel out of sorts.
Your Sim may experience delusional episodes that may permanently change their traits.
I think a lot of you here have very thought through and valid points, both for and against and the different reasons why, and I agree with you all, in different ways, especially on implementation methods.
But I think a note on "representation" is needed:
It is not to be understood as a want for visual identity or the need to give someone else that, like a box to be ticked, in the self-imposed norm's peripheral vision - it is a complete rewrite of the map, to take into account the actual complexity that is, any, society.
In my city, half a million citizens, there are 169 nationalities, people on motorized wheel chairs driving on bike lanes, crying teenagers fiddling with their phone sitting on the curb, a huge hospital with a psychiatric ER, a large youthful community of feminists, a even larger queer one. There are students, poor people, families, both rainbow and not, academics, people without work, people on extended sick leave etc, and these categories, and others, are too blunt to come close to an actual understanding of the people therein.
When it comes to game play of The Sims (3), the offence is, more than anything else, that I am to agree with that the chosen sims, with their looks, behaviour and limitations, are what is considered "fun", "okey", "common", and mostly: "neutral".
Even if a norm, seen as concept, is an unmarked category, it does not mean that it is never represented in real life, and for me, that person would never be my choice of company, interest or any kind of focus except critically in an analysis.
So to be expected to accept that kind of 'representation' in a game I play for fun, is ironic. Any kind of diversity that is managable within the game engine frames would be better than that, simply because it, actually, would be more fun.
Play with life?
@Auroraskies I might want to add to your comment -despite the fact we might or might not want disabilities in the game for whatever our reasons are. We can't forget about the fact that a person isn't disabled today, one might be tomorrow or 5-50 years from now but the point is at *some* point people will be disabled-if a person isn't currently.
I much rather have Sims version of disabilities which might seem rude to some people rather then the stereotypes of disabled people we have had in stories either a)temporary disabled (Clara from Heidi or Colin from The Secret Garden) or evil (Pirates: Captain Hook from Peter Pan or Long John Silver from Treasure Island) the only good full disabled characters I could technically find were superhero like (MCU only)-Xavier from X-men, and the Avengers with the exception of Thor and Captain America (and the Guardians of the Galaxary) if we look at the others minus Thor and Captian America we have: Iron Man (needs an artificial heart or something in order to live), Hulk=seems to be on the autistic spectrum-he can be plain old Bruce Banner but once he gets "overloaded" by something he turns into this big Green mean monster (so I conifer Hulk to be a cross between Austic person and Frankenstein), what's her name who was in Iron Man 2-in another movie she gets her own powers I think? Nick Fury who isn't a superhero but he's disabled as well because he can't see with one eye (eye patch).
Those are comic book superheros. Not people with real disabilities vs the sims. You can't really compare the two. Disabilities in comicbook are more acceptablle because they are not real, and do not have anything to do with how we handle the dignity of a real person. I have never met a mutant.
@Katlyn2525 Did you miss the fact-I mention both temporary disabled characters and "evil" characters in stories? Temporary "Good" disabled characters-Clara from Heidi and Colin from The Seceret Garden and also Tiny Tim from A Christmas Carol-but he's a minor supporting character compared to Clara&Colin and Archie wanted to be this category from early Glee Seasons Then Evil characters-Long John Silver and Captian Hook.
Which is better-idea that disabled people can be superheroes (aka Marvel Cinematic universe) or that all disabled people want is to be "not disabled" hence Clara&Colin. Or disabled people are Evil (Peter Pan and Treasure Island)? Which of the the three options is the best? In my opinion the first one is.
I think a lot of you here have very thought through and valid points, both for and against and the different reasons why, and I agree with you all, in different ways, especially on implementation methods.
But I think a note on "representation" is needed:
It is not to be understood as a want for visual identity or the need to give someone else that, like a box to be ticked, in the self-imposed norm's peripheral vision - it is a complete rewrite of the map, to take into account the actual complexity that is, any, society.
In my city, half a million citizens, there are 169 nationalities, people on motorized wheel chairs driving on bike lanes, crying teenagers fiddling with their phone sitting on the curb, a huge hospital with a psychiatric ER, a large youthful community of feminists, a even larger queer one. There are students, poor people, families, both rainbow and not, academics, people without work, people on extended sick leave etc, and these categories, and others, are too blunt to come close to an actual understanding of the people therein.
When it comes to game play of The Sims (3), the offence is, more than anything else, that I am to agree with that the chosen sims, with their looks, behaviour and limitations, are what is considered "fun", "okey", "common", and mostly: "neutral".
Even if a norm, seen as concept, is an unmarked category, it does not mean that it is never represented in real life, and for me, that person would never be my choice of company, interest or any kind of focus except critically in an analysis.
So to be expected to accept that kind of 'representation' in a game I play for fun, is ironic. Any kind of diversity that is managable within the game engine frames would be better than that, simply because it, actually, would be more fun.
Play with life?
@Auroraskies I might want to add to your comment -despite the fact we might or might not want disabilities in the game for whatever our reasons are. We can't forget about the fact that a person isn't disabled today, one might be tomorrow or 5-50 years from now but the point is at *some* point people will be disabled-if a person isn't currently.
I much rather have Sims version of disabilities which might seem rude to some people rather then the stereotypes of disabled people we have had in stories either a)temporary disabled (Clara from Heidi or Colin from The Secret Garden) or evil (Pirates: Captain Hook from Peter Pan or Long John Silver from Treasure Island) the only good full disabled characters I could technically find were superhero like (MCU only)-Xavier from X-men, and the Avengers with the exception of Thor and Captain America (and the Guardians of the Galaxary) if we look at the others minus Thor and Captian America we have: Iron Man (needs an artificial heart or something in order to live), Hulk=seems to be on the autistic spectrum-he can be plain old Bruce Banner but once he gets "overloaded" by something he turns into this big Green mean monster (so I conifer Hulk to be a cross between Austic person and Frankenstein), what's her name who was in Iron Man 2-in another movie she gets her own powers I think? Nick Fury who isn't a superhero but he's disabled as well because he can't see with one eye (eye patch).
Those are comic book superheros. Not people with real disabilities vs the sims. You can't really compare the two. Disabilities in comicbook are more acceptablle because they are not real, and do not have anything to do with how we handle the dignity of a real person. I have never met a mutant.
@Katlyn2525 Did you miss the fact-I mention both temporary disabled characters and "evil" characters in stories? Temporary "Good" disabled characters-Clara from Heidi and Colin from The Seceret Garden and also Tiny Tim from A Christmas Carol-but he's a minor supporting character compared to Clara&Colin and Archie wanted to be this category from early Glee Seasons Then Evil characters-Long John Silver and Captian Hook.
Which is better-idea that disabled people can be superheroes (aka Marvel Cinematic universe) or that all disabled people want is to be "not disabled" hence Clara&Colin. Or disabled people are Evil (Peter Pan and Treasure Island)? Which of the the three options is the best? In my opinion the first one is.
You have to compare apples to apples. Not apples to oranges. This means you have to compare RL people with real disabilities and how they could possibly be put into the game without the possibilty of offending those same people.
Personally, I don't know that it could be pulled off well. As someone with several health issues, as well as mental illnesses, I doubt the ability of the game, to convey the full scope of feelings.
It'd be nice to see more diversity in our games though. So many different types of sims could be brought in. But they'd have to be really careful about how they do things. It'd be so easy to hurt people or misrepresent them.
Like they still haven't managed to increase the range of skin-tones, or create Black hair that looks nice. So how well would they do with something as big as this?
Check out my posts in the Ideas corner, and see the Simsverse living inside my head.
I might try it no promise on this side but might be interesting for story purpose but one thing that's important is to be tolerant about the content not to mix real life with the game but you do need to realise that some in real life are confine to wheel chairs even if i am not open minded on all the content in the sims game the key word here is tolerance even do as a player i might not like some of the content in the game i at least tolerate the content even do i do not use it and answer this simple question will said content affect the way you play the game?
If you went the sims5 to remain offline feel free to sign this petition http://chng.it/gtfHPhHK please note that it is also to keep the gallery
@friendlysimmers I used wheelchair poses for storytelling purpose (character got hurt or something) and a another character is helping somehow). I would be able to create a more diverse neighbourhood with disabled sims
I just realised would a visually impaired sim have to bend down to feel a service dog's back to know if it's pooping?
@friendlysimmers I used wheelchair poses for storytelling purpose (character got hurt or something) and a another character is helping somehow). I would be able to create a more diverse neighbourhood with disabled sims
I just realised would a visually impaired sim have to bend down to feel a service dog's back to know if it's pooping?
The game is about gameplay not story telling. Yes, we all take a lot of snap shots, might even write a story and share it, and or create videos, but none of that is really the point of The Sims, it was to actually play the game and give Sims a life inspite of themselves and all their problems. That is why TS1 is so hard, because they have a lot of problems to over-come.
You can already have a 'diverse' game, depending on what Sims you create in CAS, skin tones, hair, eyes, facial structures, and Sims could always have a relationship with the same sex. And you can play a disabled Sim who can't walk by simply putting them in a chair and making them stay there. Sit all day. You can restrict Sims from not moving by turning off freewill, but I don't see many people wanting to play with freewill off, nor making a Sim stay seated all day, every day. No one has ever needed the labels to play a game in their head. It seems what they want more and more with this generation of players is justification and not actual gameplay. (Because the gameplay would sometimes be sitting all day and not moving).
ETA: And players can use any picture within reason as their avatar on the forums and so mentioning Xbox has disabled avatars is sort of a mute moot point.
Point in end, it's all window dressing. ETA: Why, because those Sims that came in CL, who wear religious garb, aren't religious nor do you see their beliefs or traditions..but that is why they wear those clothes...it's part of their religion,...just window dressing., (in game). And a Sim in a wheelchair would just be window dressing. So, any one screaming how diverse the game became is denying the facts, no it didn't, because it fains the diversity.
ETA: And I remember the hundreds of complaints when in all these games the Sims sometimes speak but their mouths don't move or open. That has been a major complaint in all these games for years. Are they going to use that for Sims who can't talk? Because it's already there.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@friendlysimmers I used wheelchair poses for storytelling purpose (character got hurt or something) and a another character is helping somehow). I would be able to create a more diverse neighbourhood with disabled sims
I just realised would a visually impaired sim have to bend down to feel a service dog's back to know if it's pooping?
Service dogs use the bathroom on command, not when you are out for a simple walk. They know their jobs.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
um turning freewill off doesn't work as much as you think it does-because from my experience you might be playing with Sim A but sim B C and D go and do their own thing and you really hate it. Oh and it doesn't matter what you think but people do use the elements the team gives us as gameplay to make better stories then what we have. I used the Transgender patch to have a little comedy in the game because I had a male dress up as a woman aka Dan Chameroy from Ross Petty Productions. Oh and for you information a CC wheelchair sucks-it CAN NOT MOVE period! What IF I want the sim in the wheelchair to move from point A to Point B? I have to make them walk and then sit back down in the wheelchair-which defeats the point of using the wheelchair.
Since disabled game play would need counters, sinks, and stoves to wheel under if in a wheelchair wheel-in/sit down shower/bathtubs, low beds (maybe with railings), audio cues for a visually impaired person, and visually cues for a hearing impaired person (I get annoyed when on the public bus when either the auditory announcements or the visually announcements aren't on since that is against I believe the The AODA (Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act)
um turning freewill off doesn't work as much as you think it does-because from my experience you might be playing with Sim A but sim B C and D go and do their own thing and you really hate it. Oh and it doesn't matter what you think but people do use the elements the team gives us as gameplay to make better stories then what we have. I used the Transgender patch to have a little comedy in the game because I had a male dress up as a woman aka Dan Chameroy from Ross Petty Productions. Oh and for you information a CC wheelchair plum-it CAN NOT MOVE period! What IF I want the sim in the wheelchair to move from point A to Point B? I have to make them walk and then sit back down in the wheelchair-which defeats the point of using the wheelchair.
Since disabled game play would need counters, sinks, and stoves to wheel under if in a wheelchair wheel-in/sit down shower/bathtubs, low beds (maybe with railings), audio cues for a visually impaired person, and visually cues for a hearing impaired person (I get annoyed when on the public bus when either the auditory announcements or the visually announcements aren't on since that is against I believe the The AODA (Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act)
You are forgetting, ramps, disabled access doorways, disabled access to the bathroom and shower, with a bath chair or bath bench, and grab bars, a raised toilet seat, and a handheld shower head , a commode, incontinence pads, diapers, oder eliminators, skin care products to reduce skin break down, a human helper, catheters, 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and urine collectors, etc. These are things that disabled people need. I can go on and on. Do you think they will put all that in a game? I doubt it. So much for realisim.
um turning freewill off doesn't work as much as you think it does-because from my experience you might be playing with Sim A but sim B C and D go and do their own thing and you really hate it. Oh and it doesn't matter what you think but people do use the elements the team gives us as gameplay to make better stories then what we have. I used the Transgender patch to have a little comedy in the game because I had a male dress up as a woman aka Dan Chameroy from Ross Petty Productions. Oh and for you information a CC wheelchair plum-it CAN NOT MOVE period! What IF I want the sim in the wheelchair to move from point A to Point B? I have to make them walk and then sit back down in the wheelchair-which defeats the point of using the wheelchair.
Since disabled game play would need counters, sinks, and stoves to wheel under if in a wheelchair wheel-in/sit down shower/bathtubs, low beds (maybe with railings), audio cues for a visually impaired person, and visually cues for a hearing impaired person (I get annoyed when on the public bus when either the auditory announcements or the visually announcements aren't on since that is against I believe the The AODA (Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act)
You are forgetting, ramps, disabled access doorways, disabled access to the bathroom and shower, with a bath chair or bath bench, and grab bars, a raised toilet seat, and a handheld shower head , a commode, incontinence pads, diapers, oder eliminators, skin care products to reduce skin break down, a human helper, catheters, plum and urine collectors, etc. These are things that disabled people need. I can go on and on. Do you think they will put all that in a game? I doubt it. So much for realism.
um you do realize not EVERY DISABLED PEOPLE NEEDS A HELPER? You're basically implying that every since disabled person can't function without a caregiver. I'm fighting to get away from MY caregivers (parents) because they treat me like a freaking child. Oh and do you know when I said a wheel-in or sit down shower/bath-that include a bath chair or bench. Not all disabilities include needing cathers, or unrine collectors-but you're acting like every disabilitiy mental and pyschailly needs those items. And there ARE such a thing as service dogs you know-so it doesn't even need to be a human helper
um turning freewill off doesn't work as much as you think it does-because from my experience you might be playing with Sim A but sim B C and D go and do their own thing and you really hate it. Oh and it doesn't matter what you think but people do use the elements the team gives us as gameplay to make better stories then what we have. I used the Transgender patch to have a little comedy in the game because I had a male dress up as a woman aka Dan Chameroy from Ross Petty Productions. Oh and for you information a CC wheelchair plum-it CAN NOT MOVE period! What IF I want the sim in the wheelchair to move from point A to Point B? I have to make them walk and then sit back down in the wheelchair-which defeats the point of using the wheelchair.
Since disabled game play would need counters, sinks, and stoves to wheel under if in a wheelchair wheel-in/sit down shower/bathtubs, low beds (maybe with railings), audio cues for a visually impaired person, and visually cues for a hearing impaired person (I get annoyed when on the public bus when either the auditory announcements or the visually announcements aren't on since that is against I believe the The AODA (Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act)
You are forgetting, ramps, disabled access doorways, disabled access to the bathroom and shower, with a bath chair or bath bench, and grab bars, a raised toilet seat, and a handheld shower head , a commode, incontinence pads, diapers, oder eliminators, skin care products to reduce skin break down, a human helper, catheters, plum and urine collectors, etc. These are things that disabled people need. I can go on and on. Do you think they will put all that in a game? I doubt it. So much for realism.
um you do realize not EVERY DISABLED PEOPLE NEEDS A HELPER? You're basically implying that every since disabled person can't function without a caregiver. I'm fighting to get away from MY caregivers (parents) because they treat me like a freaking child. Oh and do you know when I said a wheel-in or sit down shower/bath-that include a bath chair or bench. Not all disabilities include needing cathers, or unrine collectors-but you're acting like every disabilitiy mental and pyschailly needs those items. And there ARE such a thing as service dogs you know-so it doesn't even need to be a human helper
No, that is not what I am implying at all. This is just a list of things people might need. I can continue on. I work in the medical field.
um turning freewill off doesn't work as much as you think it does-because from my experience you might be playing with Sim A but sim B C and D go and do their own thing and you really hate it. Oh and it doesn't matter what you think but people do use the elements the team gives us as gameplay to make better stories then what we have. I used the Transgender patch to have a little comedy in the game because I had a male dress up as a woman aka Dan Chameroy from Ross Petty Productions. Oh and for you information a CC wheelchair plum-it CAN NOT MOVE period! What IF I want the sim in the wheelchair to move from point A to Point B? I have to make them walk and then sit back down in the wheelchair-which defeats the point of using the wheelchair.
Since disabled game play would need counters, sinks, and stoves to wheel under if in a wheelchair wheel-in/sit down shower/bathtubs, low beds (maybe with railings), audio cues for a visually impaired person, and visually cues for a hearing impaired person (I get annoyed when on the public bus when either the auditory announcements or the visually announcements aren't on since that is against I believe the The AODA (Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act)
You are forgetting, ramps, disabled access doorways, disabled access to the bathroom and shower, with a bath chair or bath bench, and grab bars, a raised toilet seat, and a handheld shower head , a commode, incontinence pads, diapers, oder eliminators, skin care products to reduce skin break down, a human helper, catheters, plum and urine collectors, etc. These are things that disabled people need. I can go on and on. Do you think they will put all that in a game? I doubt it. So much for realism.
They don't have to put all these things in the Sims though and won't for many of us to get the idea and feel that you are simulating this type of life. Do we have feminine pads in the games now? Do we have dandruff shampoo? Toothfloss? Do we have pull-ups for elders? No we don't... and this is what functional people often need also.
I don't understand how or why it has to become this detailed or even focused in this way when the rest of the game isn't... and won't be. There is no way they can put every detail of what is in our lives realistically from moment to moment and I wouldn't want to play that game if they did. My sim wouldn't make it farther than wake up shower and eat breakfast before it was time to go to bed if they did.
They probably would need a ramp system and I'm assuming some details of making the homes and lots accessible will be up to the player.
The game isn't about every little detail for me.. it might be for others but they have already been disappointed thoroughly in the game if that's the case..
For me it's about the stories I can tell and the tools needed to do that.
It's simplistic but I play Stardew Valley sometimes. In this game there is an elder man that is wheelchair bound. They never show him out of the wheelchair in that game ... they will have to in the Sims. He goes here and there in the town still. I'd love to be able to make this character. I don't need to be able to a diaper on him or make sure he's sitting on the right type of pad so he doesn't develop pressure ulcers. We have to imagine some things if we want too.. just like we have to overlook that Sims don't take off their pants to go to the bathroom right now. How's that for a smelly mess really? I don't expect that to change... is it a lie because it won't change? If that's the argument then I don't see the point of playing this game at all for people that issues with it.
None of this game is real though. Some things are left out or simplified. Will everyone like how this is done if it's done? Have they yet?
Sure it could backfire for a segment of the population. I agree.
Let's please dial back some of the discussion about what folks with disabilities do or do not need in the real world - while I totally get that there's a wide array of disabilities that people live with every day and to varying degrees, we are trying to talk about why or why not for it in gameplay and need to do so in a respectful, civil manner suitable for the forums. We should be mindful that folks here may also be speaking from their experience living with a disability as well and take that into account when talking.
We should also, I'd add, be respectful of the fact that folks approach the game in a different manner - some players are interested in mechanical side, some are focused on the storytelling.
Thanks!
~my hair color is frequently changing, so my Sim reflects that~
But you are playing with the dignity of people who face these hardships everyday. Some of these people want to escape their reality and do not want it in the game. They play the game to forget, to focus on something else other then their problems. I do not want to see this game become nothing more then a shallow reminder for them. If they put it in a patch, they better darn well have a way to turn it off. Unfortunately you will still have glitches that will need to be addressed. Otherwise, it will backfire.
Yes some don't want it in their game. I won't make my sim-self or family personally.. it's too close to home. Others want too they want to tell their personal stories. The closest I come to that is a composite of real life. There is not right or wrong way to play. Only tools that people can utilize to come as close as possible to tell their stories or play their game they way they want too.
I hope it's optional also.. for a variety of reasons including the arguments happening here. Mostly for me it's because I'm a micromanager though... and also because townie spawns are already all over the place. I don't want to add to that.
Yes some don't want it in their game. I won't make my sim-self or family personally.. it's too close to home. Others want too they want to tell their personal stories. The closest I come to that is a composite of real life. There is not right or wrong way to play. Only tools that people can utilize to come as close as possible to tell their stories or play their game they way they want too.
I hope it's optional also.. for a variety of reasons including the arguments happening here. Mostly for me it's because I'm a micromanager though... and also because townie spawns are already all over the place. I don't want to add to that.
No, I do not make a sims-self. I do not make or play anyone who is real either. There are plenty of new sims to be made.
Don't misunderstand. I do realize some people do want to make people who represent them. However, you really need to look at everything. You have to look at the people who want it, but also equally look at the people who don't. It can't be one-sided. Take psych for instance. I wouldn't touch that anymore then they have already with a ten-foot pole. You can do a lot of damage without realizing it. These are devs, not psychologists.
But you are playing with the dignity of people who face these hardships everyday. Some of these people want to escape their reality and do not want it in the game. They play the game to forget, to focus on something else other then their problems. I do not want to see this game become nothing more then a shallow reminder for them. If they put it in a patch, they better darn well have a way to turn it off. Unfortunately you will still have glitches that will need to be addressed. Otherwise, it will backfire.
EXACTLY this! I play to escape real life and do not need any reminders in my game - seeing I live every minute of every day and night with being like I am now. My Sim is the Sim of me BEFORE all this and that is the Sim I play when I play my Simself with my sim self family. Not the broken version I am now.
I was like superwoman for 40 years and then reality hits you upside the head and bit by bit takes away who you have always been. Why on earth do I want to play that version of me - I detest it - I darn sure do not need reminders 24 - 7. Look way from my pc - do or try to do anything people take for granted - is a chore - you have no idea. Getting yourself a lousy cup of coffee and back to my desk is a darn night mare - why would I want to play a sim of me like that?
So maybe some might - but don't make me have to. I need to not have that stuff in my game - I need no reminders - believe me. I don't want added chores of having to determine if that new cabinet is the right one - when I don't want the special needs anything in my game. I have no objections to it being offered to those who want it - but Sims 4 does not do off and on switches very well and I do not feel it is fair to make the game even more difficult by forcibly adding something to the game in a patch that I have to fight to get out of my catalogue.
Keep in mind even playing games are already sometimes a challenge but why make it that much harder for those of us that just don't want reminders in our games. I don't live in my game - my healthy, capable, and confident sim self lives in my sims games.
They could make a pack for those who want it - no problem with that - just don't force it for those of us that don't want it by patching.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
But you are playing with the dignity of people who face these hardships everyday. Some of these people want to escape their reality and do not want it in the game. They play the game to forget, to focus on something else other then their problems. I do not want to see this game become nothing more then a shallow reminder for them. If they put it in a patch, they better darn well have a way to turn it off. Unfortunately you will still have glitches that will need to be addressed. Otherwise, it will backfire.
EXACTLY this! I play to escape real life and do not need any reminders in my game - seeing I live every minute of every day and night with being like I am now. My Sim is the Sim of me BEFORE all this and that is the Sim I play when I play my Simself with my sim self family. Not the broken version I am now.
I was like superwoman for 40 years and then reality hits you upside the head and bit by bit takes away who you have always been. Why on earth do I want to play that version of me - I detest it - I darn sure do not need reminders 24 - 7. Look way from my pc - do or try to do anything people take for granted - is a chore - you have no idea. Getting yourself a lousy cup of coffee and back to my desk is a darn night mare - why would I want to play a sim of me like that?
So maybe some might - but don't make me have to. I need to not have that stuff in my game - I need no reminders - believe me. I don't want added chores of having to determine if that new cabinet is the right one - when I don't want the special needs anything in my game. I have no objects to it being offered to those who want it - but Sims 4 does not do off and on switches very well and I do not feel it is fair to make the game even more difficult by forcibly adding something to the game in a patch that I have to fight to get out of my catalogue.
Keep in mind even playing games are already sometimes a challenge but why make it that much harder for those of us that just don't want reminders in our games. I don't live in my game - my healthy, capable, and confident sim self lives in my sims games.
They could make a pack for those who want it - no problem with that - just don't force it for those of us that don't want it by patching.
I think putting it in a free SP would be better as well. Why offend your customers who don't want it?
Comments
But I think a note on "representation" is needed:
It is not to be understood as a want for visual identity or the need to give someone else that, like a box to be ticked, in the self-imposed norm's peripheral vision - it is a complete rewrite of the map, to take into account the actual complexity that is, any, society.
In my city, half a million citizens, there are 169 nationalities, people on motorized wheel chairs driving on bike lanes, crying teenagers fiddling with their phone sitting on the curb, a huge hospital with a psychiatric ER, a large youthful community of feminists, a even larger queer one. There are students, poor people, families, both rainbow and not, academics, people without work, people on extended sick leave etc, and these categories, and others, are too blunt to come close to an actual understanding of the people therein.
When it comes to game play of The Sims (3), the offence is, more than anything else, that I am to agree with that the chosen sims, with their looks, behaviour and limitations, are what is considered "fun", "okey", "common", and mostly: "neutral".
Even if a norm, seen as concept, is an unmarked category, it does not mean that it is never represented in real life, and for me, that person would never be my choice of company, interest or any kind of focus except critically in an analysis.
So to be expected to accept that kind of 'representation' in a game I play for fun, is ironic. Any kind of diversity that is managable within the game engine frames would be better than that, simply because it, actually, would be more fun.
Play with life?
@Auroraskies I might want to add to your comment -despite the fact we might or might not want disabilities in the game for whatever our reasons are. We can't forget about the fact that a person isn't disabled today, one might be tomorrow or 5-50 years from now but the point is at *some* point people will be disabled-if a person isn't currently.
I much rather have Sims version of disabilities which might seem rude to some people rather then the stereotypes of disabled people we have had in stories either a)temporary disabled (Clara from Heidi or Colin from The Secret Garden) or evil (Pirates: Captain Hook from Peter Pan or Long John Silver from Treasure Island) the only good full disabled characters I could technically find were superhero like (MCU only)-Xavier from X-men, and the Avengers with the exception of Thor and Captain America (and the Guardians of the Galaxary) if we look at the others minus Thor and Captian America we have: Iron Man (needs an artificial heart or something in order to live), Hulk=seems to be on the autistic spectrum-he can be plain old Bruce Banner but once he gets "overloaded" by something he turns into this big Green mean monster (so I conifer Hulk to be a cross between Austic person and Frankenstein), what's her name who was in Iron Man 2-in another movie she gets her own powers I think? Nick Fury who isn't a superhero but he's disabled as well because he can't see with one eye (eye patch).
Those are comic book superheros. Not people with real disabilities vs the sims. You can't really compare the two. Disabilities in comicbook are more acceptablle because they are not real, and do not have anything to do with how we handle the dignity of a real person. I have never met a mutant.
Unstable
Lifetime Wishes: None
Unstable Sims will often wake up with the Out of Sorts negative moodlet. If this Moodlet isn't cured within 6 hours by self-clicking the Sim to breathe through a paper bag (Take Deep Breaths) or a trip to the hospital to be admitted for instability (free), then it will get worse. A -40 4h moodlet 'Impending Episode' will appear, and if this is not cured, the Sim's Traits will randomly change. One or all of the traits may disappear or change entirely. You have 24h to cure this with a trip to the hospital, else the Trait changes become permanent. It is definitely an odd trait to pick that can lead to interesting gameplay results, though it will definitely present a challenge if you never seek treatment. The only Trait that seems to be exempt from changing is Unstable itself.
Game Description
Upon waking up in the morning while in a bad mood, your Sim may feel out of sorts.
Your Sim may experience delusional episodes that may permanently change their traits.
@Katlyn2525 Did you miss the fact-I mention both temporary disabled characters and "evil" characters in stories? Temporary "Good" disabled characters-Clara from Heidi and Colin from The Seceret Garden and also Tiny Tim from A Christmas Carol-but he's a minor supporting character compared to Clara&Colin and Archie wanted to be this category from early Glee Seasons Then Evil characters-Long John Silver and Captian Hook.
Which is better-idea that disabled people can be superheroes (aka Marvel Cinematic universe) or that all disabled people want is to be "not disabled" hence Clara&Colin. Or disabled people are Evil (Peter Pan and Treasure Island)? Which of the the three options is the best? In my opinion the first one is.
You have to compare apples to apples. Not apples to oranges. This means you have to compare RL people with real disabilities and how they could possibly be put into the game without the possibilty of offending those same people.
It'd be nice to see more diversity in our games though. So many different types of sims could be brought in. But they'd have to be really careful about how they do things. It'd be so easy to hurt people or misrepresent them.
Like they still haven't managed to increase the range of skin-tones, or create Black hair that looks nice. So how well would they do with something as big as this?
Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :
1923-2016 mamie
I just realised would a visually impaired sim have to bend down to feel a service dog's back to know if it's pooping?
The game is about gameplay not story telling. Yes, we all take a lot of snap shots, might even write a story and share it, and or create videos, but none of that is really the point of The Sims, it was to actually play the game and give Sims a life inspite of themselves and all their problems. That is why TS1 is so hard, because they have a lot of problems to over-come.
You can already have a 'diverse' game, depending on what Sims you create in CAS, skin tones, hair, eyes, facial structures, and Sims could always have a relationship with the same sex. And you can play a disabled Sim who can't walk by simply putting them in a chair and making them stay there. Sit all day. You can restrict Sims from not moving by turning off freewill, but I don't see many people wanting to play with freewill off, nor making a Sim stay seated all day, every day. No one has ever needed the labels to play a game in their head. It seems what they want more and more with this generation of players is justification and not actual gameplay. (Because the gameplay would sometimes be sitting all day and not moving).
ETA: And players can use any picture within reason as their avatar on the forums and so mentioning Xbox has disabled avatars is sort of a mute moot point.
Point in end, it's all window dressing. ETA: Why, because those Sims that came in CL, who wear religious garb, aren't religious nor do you see their beliefs or traditions..but that is why they wear those clothes...it's part of their religion,...just window dressing., (in game). And a Sim in a wheelchair would just be window dressing. So, any one screaming how diverse the game became is denying the facts, no it didn't, because it fains the diversity.
ETA: And I remember the hundreds of complaints when in all these games the Sims sometimes speak but their mouths don't move or open. That has been a major complaint in all these games for years. Are they going to use that for Sims who can't talk? Because it's already there.
Service dogs use the bathroom on command, not when you are out for a simple walk. They know their jobs.
Since disabled game play would need counters, sinks, and stoves to wheel under if in a wheelchair wheel-in/sit down shower/bathtubs, low beds (maybe with railings), audio cues for a visually impaired person, and visually cues for a hearing impaired person (I get annoyed when on the public bus when either the auditory announcements or the visually announcements aren't on since that is against I believe the The AODA (Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act)
You are forgetting, ramps, disabled access doorways, disabled access to the bathroom and shower, with a bath chair or bath bench, and grab bars, a raised toilet seat, and a handheld shower head , a commode, incontinence pads, diapers, oder eliminators, skin care products to reduce skin break down, a human helper, catheters, 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and urine collectors, etc. These are things that disabled people need. I can go on and on. Do you think they will put all that in a game? I doubt it. So much for realisim.
um you do realize not EVERY DISABLED PEOPLE NEEDS A HELPER? You're basically implying that every since disabled person can't function without a caregiver. I'm fighting to get away from MY caregivers (parents) because they treat me like a freaking child. Oh and do you know when I said a wheel-in or sit down shower/bath-that include a bath chair or bench. Not all disabilities include needing cathers, or unrine collectors-but you're acting like every disabilitiy mental and pyschailly needs those items. And there ARE such a thing as service dogs you know-so it doesn't even need to be a human helper
No, that is not what I am implying at all. This is just a list of things people might need. I can continue on. I work in the medical field.
They don't have to put all these things in the Sims though and won't for many of us to get the idea and feel that you are simulating this type of life. Do we have feminine pads in the games now? Do we have dandruff shampoo? Toothfloss? Do we have pull-ups for elders? No we don't... and this is what functional people often need also.
I don't understand how or why it has to become this detailed or even focused in this way when the rest of the game isn't... and won't be. There is no way they can put every detail of what is in our lives realistically from moment to moment and I wouldn't want to play that game if they did. My sim wouldn't make it farther than wake up shower and eat breakfast before it was time to go to bed if they did.
They probably would need a ramp system and I'm assuming some details of making the homes and lots accessible will be up to the player.
The game isn't about every little detail for me.. it might be for others but they have already been disappointed thoroughly in the game if that's the case..
For me it's about the stories I can tell and the tools needed to do that.
It's simplistic but I play Stardew Valley sometimes. In this game there is an elder man that is wheelchair bound. They never show him out of the wheelchair in that game ... they will have to in the Sims. He goes here and there in the town still. I'd love to be able to make this character. I don't need to be able to a diaper on him or make sure he's sitting on the right type of pad so he doesn't develop pressure ulcers. We have to imagine some things if we want too.. just like we have to overlook that Sims don't take off their pants to go to the bathroom right now. How's that for a smelly mess really? I don't expect that to change... is it a lie because it won't change? If that's the argument then I don't see the point of playing this game at all for people that issues with it.
Sure it could backfire for a segment of the population. I agree.
Let's please dial back some of the discussion about what folks with disabilities do or do not need in the real world - while I totally get that there's a wide array of disabilities that people live with every day and to varying degrees, we are trying to talk about why or why not for it in gameplay and need to do so in a respectful, civil manner suitable for the forums. We should be mindful that folks here may also be speaking from their experience living with a disability as well and take that into account when talking.
We should also, I'd add, be respectful of the fact that folks approach the game in a different manner - some players are interested in mechanical side, some are focused on the storytelling.
Thanks!
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I hope it's optional also.. for a variety of reasons including the arguments happening here. Mostly for me it's because I'm a micromanager though... and also because townie spawns are already all over the place. I don't want to add to that.
No, I do not make a sims-self. I do not make or play anyone who is real either. There are plenty of new sims to be made.
Don't misunderstand. I do realize some people do want to make people who represent them. However, you really need to look at everything. You have to look at the people who want it, but also equally look at the people who don't. It can't be one-sided. Take psych for instance. I wouldn't touch that anymore then they have already with a ten-foot pole. You can do a lot of damage without realizing it. These are devs, not psychologists.
EXACTLY this! I play to escape real life and do not need any reminders in my game - seeing I live every minute of every day and night with being like I am now. My Sim is the Sim of me BEFORE all this and that is the Sim I play when I play my Simself with my sim self family. Not the broken version I am now.
I was like superwoman for 40 years and then reality hits you upside the head and bit by bit takes away who you have always been. Why on earth do I want to play that version of me - I detest it - I darn sure do not need reminders 24 - 7. Look way from my pc - do or try to do anything people take for granted - is a chore - you have no idea. Getting yourself a lousy cup of coffee and back to my desk is a darn night mare - why would I want to play a sim of me like that?
So maybe some might - but don't make me have to. I need to not have that stuff in my game - I need no reminders - believe me. I don't want added chores of having to determine if that new cabinet is the right one - when I don't want the special needs anything in my game. I have no objections to it being offered to those who want it - but Sims 4 does not do off and on switches very well and I do not feel it is fair to make the game even more difficult by forcibly adding something to the game in a patch that I have to fight to get out of my catalogue.
Keep in mind even playing games are already sometimes a challenge but why make it that much harder for those of us that just don't want reminders in our games. I don't live in my game - my healthy, capable, and confident sim self lives in my sims games.
They could make a pack for those who want it - no problem with that - just don't force it for those of us that don't want it by patching.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I think putting it in a free SP would be better as well. Why offend your customers who don't want it?