I think they should add disabilities but make it optional. I want diseases as well, but that's a topic for another day...
Stroke, can't use arms? Has to stay in bed someone has to feed them? I've done ask everyone a lot of hard questions, what about Parkinson's disease? Shaking, hallucinates, get's a twitch can't do anything sometimes because of the shaking and twitching. How long do you think somone would play that Sim when trying to use a craft table in game? People are playing games, no, they don't really want real disabilities in the game and complaints would stack up like dead leaves. They are fooling themselves all for the sake of 'inclusiveness'.
The amount of time someone plays with a sim is none of my concern. I'm just saying I want disabilities and diseases, complaints against the sims 4 have been going on since the games inception, so that's nothing new.
Do you really? Do you fret when your Sims take too long mulittasking in TS4? Are you playing in ultra speed? Do you really have the patience to deal with a Sim who can't learn, move, and or even get out of bed? I doubt it. Do you want to see a missing hand? Arm, leg, face? How about missing eyes? Not blind but blown out? Do you want to remember to add the bag to the Sim so they can use the bathroom? Or do you just want a Sim in a wheelchair who can move around as fast an able bodied Sim? Do you want it to take five times longer for a child to do their homework? Or a Sim who can't read or ever learn to read? How about slow, how slow do you want the Sim to be, do you have enough patience without putting the game on fast speed to sit there and wait for them to finish something? I doubt it.
ETA: You guys can't even deal with the toddlers in this game without complaining of how hard they are to play.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I, personally, don't want it in my game. But if they add it, that's fine.
I worry about the animations. Already most animations are on the weak side in Sims 4 (the swoops to make the bed for example). Will the disabled sim stand to swoop the bed, will the wheelchair automatically appear by the bed when they awake and then they swoop the bed made while magically sitting in the wheel chair? Will someone assist the disabled sim into the wheel chair and then swoop the bed made for the disabled sim?
That's just one example.
I also worry about how a sim gets disabled. As others have asked, is it from birth? An accident or disease? What about the simmers doing a legacy and their heir is all of a sudden stricken with a disability they don't want for their legacy? Toggles to opt out? What if they want disabilities but they just don't want their legacy heir to have one. Will there be a magical cure in the Sims world that is not available to us in the real world? That doesn't seem fair, either. It seems almost disrespectful.
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I, personally, don't want it in my game. But if they add it, that's fine.
I worry about the animations. Already most animations are on the weak side in Sims 4 (the swoops to make the bed for example). Will the disabled sim stand to swoop the bed, will the wheelchair automatically appear by the bed when they awake and then they swoop the bed made while magically sitting in the wheel chair? Will someone assist the disabled sim into the wheel chair and then swoop the bed made for the disabled sim?
That's just one example.
I also worry about how a sim gets disabled. As others have asked, is it from birth? An accident or disease? What about the simmers doing a legacy and their heir is all of a sudden stricken with a disability they don't want for their legacy? Toggles to opt out? What if they want disabilities but they just don't want their legacy heir to have one. Will their be a magical cure in the Sims world that is not available to us in the real world? That doesn't seem fair, either. It seems almost disrespectful.
I didn't even think about those things. I think that nothing good can come from this. I think the developers should focus on something much nicer.
I, personally, don't want it in my game. But if they add it, that's fine.
I worry about the animations. Already most animations are on the weak side in Sims 4 (the swoops to make the bed for example). Will the disabled sim stand to swoop the bed, will the wheelchair automatically appear by the bed when they awake and then they swoop the bed made while magically sitting in the wheel chair? Will someone assist the disabled sim into the wheel chair and then swoop the bed made for the disabled sim?
That's just one example.
I also worry about how a sim gets disabled. As others have asked, is it from birth? An accident or disease? What about the simmers doing a legacy and their heir is all of a sudden stricken with a disability they don't want for their legacy? Toggles to opt out? What if they want disabilities but they just don't want their legacy heir to have one. Will their be a magical cure in the Sims world that is not available to us in the real world? That doesn't seem fair, either. It seems almost disrespectful.
Exactly.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I, personally, don't want it in my game. But if they add it, that's fine.
I worry about the animations. Already most animations are on the weak side in Sims 4 (the swoops to make the bed for example). Will the disabled sim stand to swoop the bed, will the wheelchair automatically appear by the bed when they awake and then they swoop the bed made while magically sitting in the wheel chair? Will someone assist the disabled sim into the wheel chair and then swoop the bed made for the disabled sim?
That's just one example.
I also worry about how a sim gets disabled. As others have asked, is it from birth? An accident or disease? What about the simmers doing a legacy and their heir is all of a sudden stricken with a disability they don't want for their legacy? Toggles to opt out? What if they want disabilities but they just don't want their legacy heir to have one. Will there be a magical cure in the Sims world that is not available to us in the real world? That doesn't seem fair, either. It seems almost disrespectful.
I agree. Lots of people would be saying they didn’t want x or why to happen to their sim as it’s depressing. Some people got upset at their cats and dogs in game getting ill and even though they can’t die they thought it was too much. For a pet.
The sims 4 with disabilities and modders could be a disaster, after watching one mod turn the game into something quite serious in real life into something that is meant to be funny or at the very least entertaining , I don’t want to even think about how disabilities could be used in all the wrong ways. I know that wouldn’t be EA’s fault, what modders do but they would be opening a can of worms all the same? I kind of get the impression it’s more for a “We are on so inclusive angle” than actually anything else.
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I don't know what Grant's ideas are about how the sims and disabilities ( someone did ask a two part question and the second half was about sim might be born disabled and Grant said unsure) but what I do know is from previous conversations on this topic is that most of us just want the option in Create a Sim.
I don't know what Grant's ideas are about how the sims and disabilities ( someone did ask a two part question and the second half was about sim might be born disabled and Grant said unsure) but what I do know is from previous conversations on this topic is that most of us just want the option in Create a Sim.
they could make it where you could turn the option on and off like the weather in seasons @MadameLee
I don't want realistic diseases in my game we don't have them now I don't think they will ever come. We don't have fear... I doubt well have people having severe strokes in game or people going into diabetic comas .. really..
They aren't going to animate that much and take on that controversy... and work. All they have to do is give us a sim that is say bound to a wheelchair (and possibly other devices that allow them to be functional). It's up to us as simmers to provide their stories... their traits and their life. To even think they would attempt to show all the hardship people go through is pretty much ludicrous. To repeat: We don't even have the fear emotion in this game.
I'm not fighting hard to have it but frankly I'm getting a little angry here... it would be good for those that want it to tell their stories and those who just want it to tell stories in general. They are out there. Functional people with disabilities are among us, deal with it. They want to be represented in some way, deal with it. I really don't see what the problem is here.
I still think it should be an opt in possibility in CAS.. for a lot of reasons including those in this thread who don't want to see it in their game for whatever reason. The best reason is those that are disabled that don't want to see it for whatever reason they have.
I don't know what Grant's ideas are about how the sims and disabilities ( someone did ask a two part question and the second half was about sim might be born disabled and Grant said unsure) but what I do know is from previous conversations on this topic is that most of us just want the option in Create a Sim.
How would that work? An option to put the Sim in a chair in CAS? As a choice? Or to give them a disabled feature, like a trait? Pick from a menu? Able to walk? Unable to walk? Do they auto get a chair when added to game? Or do you have to buy one? See, I find all this very insulting and insensitive. I'm sure Maxis wouldn't be as blunt as I am, when they ask their questions of those who requested this, but I see a bigger picture than they might.
ETA: Personally, I hope disablities are never added, since it's not a choice, no one would remain crippled, blind or deaf, nor would they want an illness that caused their disablity such as MS. I, personally, would not want the patch (even if free) nor play a Sim with those problems. Because a disability is not dress up. If it was so shallow the Sim didn't have problems for real and slower to move than others etc. then it would just be a dress up session in a chair. And to me, I don't want to ever be reminded I don't get around as fast as some of you. What I can't do anymore, I do in The Sims series, swim, run, play, jump, climb. Reminding some of us we are limited is not ever a good idea in my opinion. Not when we play games to live out what we can't do anymore in the real world. Escape.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I'm not fighting hard to have it but frankly I'm getting a little angry here... it would be good for those that want it to tell their stories and those who just want it to tell stories in general. They are out there. Functional people with disabilities are among us, deal with it. They want to be represented in some way, deal with it. I really don't see what the problem is here.
What disabilities, and how would you express them in game?
Very few people are saying that they are against the very principle of disabled sims. They're just saying that it would be a nightmare to program (many physical disabilities like needing a wheelchair), and/or a nightmare to pull off without potentially offending lots of people (most mental disabilities). If you have thoughts how you'd try to pull off any form of disabilities, I'm curious to hear how you'd implement them in game.
I'm not fighting hard to have it but frankly I'm getting a little angry here... it would be good for those that want it to tell their stories and those who just want it to tell stories in general. They are out there. Functional people with disabilities are among us, deal with it. They want to be represented in some way, deal with it. I really don't see what the problem is here.
What disabilities, and how would you express them in game?
Very few people are saying that they are against the very principle of disabled sims. They're just saying that it would be a nightmare to program (many physical disabilities like needing a wheelchair), and/or a nightmare to pull off without potentially offending lots of people (most mental disabilities). If you have thoughts how you'd try to pull off any form of disabilities, I'm curious to hear how you'd implement them in game.
Well people may think it's shallow and that's their issue.. but the way I would suggest pulling it off is to just animate around the implement needed for a physically disabled sim to be mobile. They feel the same things everyone else does otherwise if they are healthy. Disabled doesn't mean they aren't highly functioning individuals. The game could show that. Sure it might not show every nook and cranny of problems disabled may have but it doesn't show that same reality for others either and frankly it never will. Not in this iteration... it won't in any iteration I dare say.
They don't need to show every disability just as they didn't show problems people might have with gender dysphoria. They just gave some tools for the expression of that.. it doesn't begin to cover everything.
They could use the most common disablities people have.. and if they link it to mobility it does not have to be all that complicated. Will people feel left out? Sure... but it's a step. I guess I got affronted in some way because people seem to want to shut off that step completely.
No game will be made that will suit everyone or give everyone what they want.
I think that's a very bad idea.
And I'm not hating disabled people, some of my friends are disabled or just have different diseases, but I just think of how it can be released in the game. Simple logic + issues with making it work.
First of all, how can disability, caused by injuries or diseases (the one you get or the one you born with) exist in the game, where's no such a thing as "sickness", "bad health"? Because every problem can be easily cured right after you give them a medicine. The only tough and dangerous sickness is the one, that comes with "My first pet", but it can't kill your sims if you don't want them to die, because again, you give them the cure and it's all fine.
I guess breaking a bone will be much more logical + it's more common.
And if they add disabled sims, they have to re-do all the animation, like give them an ability to play guitar in a weelchair or cook in a weelchair etc.
And talking of mental disorders, it has nothing to do with what people imagine when they think of it. To many people who suffer from them, it's a nightmare to come true. I doubt it'll be done in the right way. It's pretty serious.
I, personally, don't want it in my game. But if they add it, that's fine.
I worry about the animations. Already most animations are on the weak side in Sims 4 (the swoops to make the bed for example). Will the disabled sim stand to swoop the bed, will the wheelchair automatically appear by the bed when they awake and then they swoop the bed made while magically sitting in the wheel chair? Will someone assist the disabled sim into the wheel chair and then swoop the bed made for the disabled sim?
That's just one example.
I also worry about how a sim gets disabled. As others have asked, is it from birth? An accident or disease? What about the simmers doing a legacy and their heir is all of a sudden stricken with a disability they don't want for their legacy? Toggles to opt out? What if they want disabilities but they just don't want their legacy heir to have one. Will there be a magical cure in the Sims world that is not available to us in the real world? That doesn't seem fair, either. It seems almost disrespectful.
Legacy players should have nothing to worry about -- from what I gather disabled Sims will be fully player-enabled, similar to the gender options for creating transgender Sims. And they could program the game to not auto-generate disabled Sims. Maybe a secondary trait system similar to the purchasable and reward traits; that could even be used for "normal" Sims as well to give additional traits to fill out their personality.
This isn't going to be coming anytime soon; maybe it never comes to Sims 4 but is part of a hypothetical Sims. They'll likely consult with experts in the disability field as well as actual disabled people before going forward. As long as it's completely optional like the gender patch (I don't create that many transgender Sims but I use the pregnancy options to create Sims that can't have biological children so they adopt) I'm okay with it. More gameplay options are always good; just because I don't use a feature doesn't mean that no one should have access to it.
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I don't know what Grant's ideas are about how the sims and disabilities ( someone did ask a two part question and the second half was about sim might be born disabled and Grant said unsure) but what I do know is from previous conversations on this topic is that most of us just want the option in Create a Sim.
How would that work? An option to put the Sim in a chair in CAS? As a choice? Or to give them a disabled feature, like a trait? Pick from a menu? Able to walk? Unable to walk? Do they auto get a chair when added to game? Or do you have to buy one? See, I find all this very insulting and insensitive. I'm sure Maxis wouldn't be as blunt as I am, when they ask their questions of those who requested this, but I see a bigger picture than they might.
ETA: Personally, I hope disablities are never added, since it's not a choice, no one would remain crippled, blind or deaf, nor would they want an illness that caused their disablity such as MS. I, personally, would not want the patch (even if free) nor play a Sim with those problems. Because a disability is not dress up. If it was so shallow the Sim didn't have problems for real and slower to move than others etc. then it would just be a dress up session in a chair. And to me, I don't want to ever be reminded I don't get around as fast as some of you. What I can't do anymore, I do in The Sims series, swim, run, play, jump, climb. Reminding some of us we are limited is not ever a good idea in my opinion. Not when we play games to live out what we can't do anymore in the real world. Escape.
We already have the option in CAS to give Sims different forms (alien disguises, vampiire dark form). We also have the gender options where you can create a male Sim with a feminine frame, or vice versa. A similar set of options for physical disability could work in a smilar fashion -- does your disabled Sim use a wheelchair? a walker? a cane? Then you see the Sim with the chosen accessory.
My Simiverse is one where there are no disabilites, no racism or sexism or homophobia or the other nasty stuff. My gameplay is pretty vanilla; (I do have one Sim right now who is out to become a Public Enemy and he's working on being disliked by as many Sims as possible while he's only a teen.) Others have a darker world. But I don't mind being given the options. I may never make or play a disabled Sims, but some of the discussed options could work to enhance and expand elder play just for an example. To me, the more options the better even if I never use them.
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I still worry about the animations. As @Vincent_Vengeance said, wheelchair-bound sims should be able to play guitar or even shower/bathe, cook, go up stairs, etc. The cost of these animations when already our animations are not as strong as they have been in other iterations of the game would be terribly expensive (time-wise) for the developers. The transgender patch did not require new animations.
But perhaps it would mean that able-bodied sims could play guitar sitting down in a chair, too.
Like I said, I'm fine if they add it. I'd just perhaps prefer other things be added.
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I don't know what Grant's ideas are about how the sims and disabilities ( someone did ask a two part question and the second half was about sim might be born disabled and Grant said unsure) but what I do know is from previous conversations on this topic is that most of us just want the option in Create a Sim.
How would that work? An option to put the Sim in a chair in CAS? As a choice? Or to give them a disabled feature, like a trait? Pick from a menu? Able to walk? Unable to walk? Do they auto get a chair when added to game? Or do you have to buy one? See, I find all this very insulting and insensitive. I'm sure Maxis wouldn't be as blunt as I am, when they ask their questions of those who requested this, but I see a bigger picture than they might.
ETA: Personally, I hope disablities are never added, since it's not a choice, no one would remain crippled, blind or deaf, nor would they want an illness that caused their disablity such as MS. I, personally, would not want the patch (even if free) nor play a Sim with those problems. Because a disability is not dress up. If it was so shallow the Sim didn't have problems for real and slower to move than others etc. then it would just be a dress up session in a chair. And to me, I don't want to ever be reminded I don't get around as fast as some of you. What I can't do anymore, I do in The Sims series, swim, run, play, jump, climb. Reminding some of us we are limited is not ever a good idea in my opinion. Not when we play games to live out what we can't do anymore in the real world. Escape.
We already have the option in CAS to give Sims different forms (alien disguises, vampiire dark form). We also have the gender options where you can create a male Sim with a feminine frame, or vice versa. A similar set of options for physical disability could work in a smilar fashion -- does your disabled Sim use a wheelchair? a walker? a cane? Then you see the Sim with the chosen accessory.
My Simiverse is one where there are no disabilites, no racism or sexism or homophobia or the other nasty stuff. My gameplay is pretty vanilla; (I do have one Sim right now who is out to become a Public Enemy and he's working on being disliked by as many Sims as possible while he's only a teen.) Others have a darker world. But I don't mind being given the options. I may never make or play a disabled Sims, but some of the discussed options could work to enhance and expand elder play just for an example. To me, the more options the better even if I never use them.
See, what you said about making Sims aliens or vampires in CAS etc. is an insult to think players are sitting, creating diabled Sims from pie menu or list of things to pick from. This is why this is wrong, because some can't even see the insult that is. Monetizing disability. No matter if free, you know this gains them a sect of players who may not have other wize played, or maybe many more quit, because it all becomes monetized. One way or another.
How does sign language work? We don't know what these Sims are saying, right? But if they add real sign language then we would know what two Sims might be talking about,.. but wouldn't know for other Sims? Do you see how ridiculous that is? There is a reason we don't understand their language. But if the Sim is using real sign language (which Grant mentioned) then we would know? We could understand some and not others? It turns my stomach to think some equate a disablity to the choices of creating a vampire or an alien. And Sims have always been able to choose who they love in The Sims and or who the player wanted them to love. And let's face it, there are millions and millions and millions of people on this earth who are religious, I expect they get their fair share of this game, too, if Maxis is going to start reflecting life in such a way.
Parody is when a Sim behaves childishly and cries about something more mature humans wouldn't even think about getting upset over. If they are going to start adding more mature themes such as disablity, then they can't and shouldn't ignore the rest, or all of it. You can't have one foot in and foot out.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I have a Disability may I offer some advice to Simgurus ? , Child Life Specialists work in Pediatric Hospitals they use mobile devices as distraction tool most times we don't have games or apps for Teens who are Isolated . I know because I was one myself also I just had a epileptic Seizure a hour ago you will need your Disability package to be vented so you don't want to offend Teens or anyone in Hospitals with health issues. Here is Ea/Mavis could do have a Child Life Specialist oversee the project next turn this into a Charitable app add on from here hospitals such as Saint Judes and other hospitals can use this app and raise your product further this package is only free to all pediatric patients and Child Life Services provide feedback and show your charitible side also getting yourself in the healthcare sector which could open more opportunities for your company.
Well people may think it's shallow and that's their issue.. but the way I would suggest pulling it off is to just animate around the implement needed for a physically disabled sim to be mobile.
I think you are drastically underestimating how much time and energy it would take to animate around the issues. Animations are one of the more complex and involved steps in making any video game. I wouldn't be against including it if some programming fairies left a drive full of animations lying around, but tying up developers on mobility animations means that they're not working on other things.
More gameplay options are always good; just because I don't use a feature doesn't mean that no one should have access to it.
The basic concept here is opportunity cost. Making a complete set of animations for wheelchairs, walkers, canes and crutches is a monster amount of work. We're not saying that we don't want you to have the option as a matter of principle. Instead, we're saying that the time spent on that is time spent not making something like University or Magic.
If you asked people whether they'd prefer a disabilities pack or a magic pack, I'd wager that magic would come out far ahead. Since other options would be more popular, would sell better, and would be much less likely to be accidentally offensive, I think that other options would be a much better use of developer resources.
I've noticed, that most of people, who yell louder than anyone else of how we need disabled sims are NOT disabled. Most of them.
EA says they talk to disabled people, buuut... I think, that they just need to talk to some random disabled people and find out, what they think, not like activists or whoever. Because it's pretty obvious, that disabled activists would love it, but not too many people become activists, there are so many more, who don't.
And again, any disease, or disorder, or disability in most cases is a personal pain. All we need to do is accept those people and erase the line between them and us, healthy (or almost healthy) people not to make them feel "different" and alienated. And it's not about spreading sparkles above someone's head because he's in a wheelchair. It's about not paying any attention to the fact he's in a wheelchair.
In my country we used to have a very cool social advertising commercial on TV and every video was filmed as a little story, when you see a talented person, surrounded by loving friends and family, and get to know that person, and only in the end you see, that they are disabled. I remember one about a boy on stage called "school rock star", then the show's over and all the school boys and girls carry him in their arms and honor him, but then they get to their classroom and put him back to his wheelchair. And every video used to end with their slogan, smth like "Everyone is special. And there's no difference, if he's disabled or not. Because people are not divided that way".
Well people may think it's shallow and that's their issue.. but the way I would suggest pulling it off is to just animate around the implement needed for a physically disabled sim to be mobile.
I think you are drastically underestimating how much time and energy it would take to animate around the issues. Animations are one of the more complex and involved steps in making any video game. I wouldn't be against including it if some programming fairies left a drive full of animations lying around, but tying up developers on mobility animations means that they're not working on other things.
More gameplay options are always good; just because I don't use a feature doesn't mean that no one should have access to it.
The basic concept here is opportunity cost. Making a complete set of animations for wheelchairs, walkers, canes and crutches is a monster amount of work. We're not saying that we don't want you to have the option as a matter of principle. Instead, we're saying that the time spent on that is time spent not making something like University or Magic.
If you asked people whether they'd prefer a disabilities pack or a magic pack, I'd wager that magic would come out far ahead. Since other options would be more popular, would sell better, and would be much less likely to be accidentally offensive, I think that other options would be a much better use of developer resources.
It would take allot of time and energy but healthcare games and apps are deeply needed for teens and remember remove the dis and just call it "Sims Ability" plus having physicians vent the program teaching the team to develop a suitable game that doesn't offend others another option is creating "Sim Kids Hospital Adventure" where through Child life Kids and Teens connect one on one through hospitals in a Virtual sim giving them some fun this would include the Base Game where they play regular Sims game and then second the add on package would be free only to pediatric and Child Life Services where youth decorate their hospital room, meet the virtual sim docs, procedures etc. reducing medical based trauma there using robots so I ask myself " Why not sims?" giving youth who are struggling with being in Hospital.
Maybe people want disabled sims because they themselves are disabled and don't think of their lives as being a pity party. A wheelchair is not a limitation of who you are, nor does it have to be depressing. Maybe the most important to them isn't being able to walk but to live a life being accepted for who they are. So when they try to engage in a game of fantasy their fantasy might just be to be who they are , physical limitations and all, and live a full life. Not be told that they have to be physically able to enjoy those things.
Well people may think it's shallow and that's their issue.. but the way I would suggest pulling it off is to just animate around the implement needed for a physically disabled sim to be mobile.
I think you are drastically underestimating how much time and energy it would take to animate around the issues. Animations are one of the more complex and involved steps in making any video game. I wouldn't be against including it if some programming fairies left a drive full of animations lying around, but tying up developers on mobility animations means that they're not working on other things.
Oh no, I'm not dramatically underestimating anything. I very well know it would take a huge amount of effort and time to do this and do it right. I've said this before. Just if you are talking about a wheelchair bound sims you would deal with transfers for everything... toilet, bed, chair, couch, bathing needs ect... You would have to leave some things out probably. Like they might only be able to use a certain type of shower in this game. I've transferred plenty of folks in my time and had to anticipate those needs.
Then of course you go beyond just needs into other activities, some might be limited. People brought up things like playing the guitar. There would have to be a lot reworked so they could do this from their position. They would have to look into romantic animations. It would be a huge undertaking. It doesn't mean some of these animations couldn't be applied to sims that aren't disabled though in many cases.
I'm not against it because of that just as I wasn't against toddlers even though I rarely use the little buggers personally.
I'm sorry the idea of putting effort into this bothers you.. it just does not bother me. I'm team all things. I want all that can come and be animated for this iteration. We don't know what they have planned long term, we don't know their budget, we don't know how long this series will last. It's all speculation on our parts. Can working on one thing delay another.. I'm sure it could. Will it cancel out that they other will never happen... umm we don't know but I'm banking on getting what I want out of this series, because I have so far.
I would appreciate it if you don't assume what I think in the future by the way. You'll probably be wrong.
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Do you really? Do you fret when your Sims take too long mulittasking in TS4? Are you playing in ultra speed? Do you really have the patience to deal with a Sim who can't learn, move, and or even get out of bed? I doubt it. Do you want to see a missing hand? Arm, leg, face? How about missing eyes? Not blind but blown out? Do you want to remember to add the bag to the Sim so they can use the bathroom? Or do you just want a Sim in a wheelchair who can move around as fast an able bodied Sim? Do you want it to take five times longer for a child to do their homework? Or a Sim who can't read or ever learn to read? How about slow, how slow do you want the Sim to be, do you have enough patience without putting the game on fast speed to sit there and wait for them to finish something? I doubt it.
ETA: You guys can't even deal with the toddlers in this game without complaining of how hard they are to play.
I worry about the animations. Already most animations are on the weak side in Sims 4 (the swoops to make the bed for example). Will the disabled sim stand to swoop the bed, will the wheelchair automatically appear by the bed when they awake and then they swoop the bed made while magically sitting in the wheel chair? Will someone assist the disabled sim into the wheel chair and then swoop the bed made for the disabled sim?
That's just one example.
I also worry about how a sim gets disabled. As others have asked, is it from birth? An accident or disease? What about the simmers doing a legacy and their heir is all of a sudden stricken with a disability they don't want for their legacy? Toggles to opt out? What if they want disabilities but they just don't want their legacy heir to have one. Will there be a magical cure in the Sims world that is not available to us in the real world? That doesn't seem fair, either. It seems almost disrespectful.
I didn't even think about those things. I think that nothing good can come from this. I think the developers should focus on something much nicer.
Exactly.
I agree. Lots of people would be saying they didn’t want x or why to happen to their sim as it’s depressing. Some people got upset at their cats and dogs in game getting ill and even though they can’t die they thought it was too much. For a pet.
The sims 4 with disabilities and modders could be a disaster, after watching one mod turn the game into something quite serious in real life into something that is meant to be funny or at the very least entertaining , I don’t want to even think about how disabilities could be used in all the wrong ways. I know that wouldn’t be EA’s fault, what modders do but they would be opening a can of worms all the same? I kind of get the impression it’s more for a “We are on so inclusive angle” than actually anything else.
they could make it where you could turn the option on and off like the weather in seasons @MadameLee
They aren't going to animate that much and take on that controversy... and work. All they have to do is give us a sim that is say bound to a wheelchair (and possibly other devices that allow them to be functional). It's up to us as simmers to provide their stories... their traits and their life. To even think they would attempt to show all the hardship people go through is pretty much ludicrous. To repeat: We don't even have the fear emotion in this game.
I'm not fighting hard to have it but frankly I'm getting a little angry here... it would be good for those that want it to tell their stories and those who just want it to tell stories in general. They are out there. Functional people with disabilities are among us, deal with it. They want to be represented in some way, deal with it. I really don't see what the problem is here.
I still think it should be an opt in possibility in CAS.. for a lot of reasons including those in this thread who don't want to see it in their game for whatever reason. The best reason is those that are disabled that don't want to see it for whatever reason they have.
How would that work? An option to put the Sim in a chair in CAS? As a choice? Or to give them a disabled feature, like a trait? Pick from a menu? Able to walk? Unable to walk? Do they auto get a chair when added to game? Or do you have to buy one? See, I find all this very insulting and insensitive. I'm sure Maxis wouldn't be as blunt as I am, when they ask their questions of those who requested this, but I see a bigger picture than they might.
ETA: Personally, I hope disablities are never added, since it's not a choice, no one would remain crippled, blind or deaf, nor would they want an illness that caused their disablity such as MS. I, personally, would not want the patch (even if free) nor play a Sim with those problems. Because a disability is not dress up. If it was so shallow the Sim didn't have problems for real and slower to move than others etc. then it would just be a dress up session in a chair. And to me, I don't want to ever be reminded I don't get around as fast as some of you. What I can't do anymore, I do in The Sims series, swim, run, play, jump, climb. Reminding some of us we are limited is not ever a good idea in my opinion. Not when we play games to live out what we can't do anymore in the real world. Escape.
What disabilities, and how would you express them in game?
Very few people are saying that they are against the very principle of disabled sims. They're just saying that it would be a nightmare to program (many physical disabilities like needing a wheelchair), and/or a nightmare to pull off without potentially offending lots of people (most mental disabilities). If you have thoughts how you'd try to pull off any form of disabilities, I'm curious to hear how you'd implement them in game.
Well people may think it's shallow and that's their issue.. but the way I would suggest pulling it off is to just animate around the implement needed for a physically disabled sim to be mobile. They feel the same things everyone else does otherwise if they are healthy. Disabled doesn't mean they aren't highly functioning individuals. The game could show that. Sure it might not show every nook and cranny of problems disabled may have but it doesn't show that same reality for others either and frankly it never will. Not in this iteration... it won't in any iteration I dare say.
They don't need to show every disability just as they didn't show problems people might have with gender dysphoria. They just gave some tools for the expression of that.. it doesn't begin to cover everything.
They could use the most common disablities people have.. and if they link it to mobility it does not have to be all that complicated. Will people feel left out? Sure... but it's a step. I guess I got affronted in some way because people seem to want to shut off that step completely.
No game will be made that will suit everyone or give everyone what they want.
And I'm not hating disabled people, some of my friends are disabled or just have different diseases, but I just think of how it can be released in the game. Simple logic + issues with making it work.
First of all, how can disability, caused by injuries or diseases (the one you get or the one you born with) exist in the game, where's no such a thing as "sickness", "bad health"? Because every problem can be easily cured right after you give them a medicine. The only tough and dangerous sickness is the one, that comes with "My first pet", but it can't kill your sims if you don't want them to die, because again, you give them the cure and it's all fine.
I guess breaking a bone will be much more logical + it's more common.
And if they add disabled sims, they have to re-do all the animation, like give them an ability to play guitar in a weelchair or cook in a weelchair etc.
Legacy players should have nothing to worry about -- from what I gather disabled Sims will be fully player-enabled, similar to the gender options for creating transgender Sims. And they could program the game to not auto-generate disabled Sims. Maybe a secondary trait system similar to the purchasable and reward traits; that could even be used for "normal" Sims as well to give additional traits to fill out their personality.
This isn't going to be coming anytime soon; maybe it never comes to Sims 4 but is part of a hypothetical Sims. They'll likely consult with experts in the disability field as well as actual disabled people before going forward. As long as it's completely optional like the gender patch (I don't create that many transgender Sims but I use the pregnancy options to create Sims that can't have biological children so they adopt) I'm okay with it. More gameplay options are always good; just because I don't use a feature doesn't mean that no one should have access to it.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
We already have the option in CAS to give Sims different forms (alien disguises, vampiire dark form). We also have the gender options where you can create a male Sim with a feminine frame, or vice versa. A similar set of options for physical disability could work in a smilar fashion -- does your disabled Sim use a wheelchair? a walker? a cane? Then you see the Sim with the chosen accessory.
My Simiverse is one where there are no disabilites, no racism or sexism or homophobia or the other nasty stuff. My gameplay is pretty vanilla; (I do have one Sim right now who is out to become a Public Enemy and he's working on being disliked by as many Sims as possible while he's only a teen.) Others have a darker world. But I don't mind being given the options. I may never make or play a disabled Sims, but some of the discussed options could work to enhance and expand elder play just for an example. To me, the more options the better even if I never use them.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
But perhaps it would mean that able-bodied sims could play guitar sitting down in a chair, too.
Like I said, I'm fine if they add it. I'd just perhaps prefer other things be added.
See, what you said about making Sims aliens or vampires in CAS etc. is an insult to think players are sitting, creating diabled Sims from pie menu or list of things to pick from. This is why this is wrong, because some can't even see the insult that is. Monetizing disability. No matter if free, you know this gains them a sect of players who may not have other wize played, or maybe many more quit, because it all becomes monetized. One way or another.
How does sign language work? We don't know what these Sims are saying, right? But if they add real sign language then we would know what two Sims might be talking about,.. but wouldn't know for other Sims? Do you see how ridiculous that is? There is a reason we don't understand their language. But if the Sim is using real sign language (which Grant mentioned) then we would know? We could understand some and not others? It turns my stomach to think some equate a disablity to the choices of creating a vampire or an alien. And Sims have always been able to choose who they love in The Sims and or who the player wanted them to love. And let's face it, there are millions and millions and millions of people on this earth who are religious, I expect they get their fair share of this game, too, if Maxis is going to start reflecting life in such a way.
Parody is when a Sim behaves childishly and cries about something more mature humans wouldn't even think about getting upset over. If they are going to start adding more mature themes such as disablity, then they can't and shouldn't ignore the rest, or all of it. You can't have one foot in and foot out.
I think you are drastically underestimating how much time and energy it would take to animate around the issues. Animations are one of the more complex and involved steps in making any video game. I wouldn't be against including it if some programming fairies left a drive full of animations lying around, but tying up developers on mobility animations means that they're not working on other things.
The basic concept here is opportunity cost. Making a complete set of animations for wheelchairs, walkers, canes and crutches is a monster amount of work. We're not saying that we don't want you to have the option as a matter of principle. Instead, we're saying that the time spent on that is time spent not making something like University or Magic.
If you asked people whether they'd prefer a disabilities pack or a magic pack, I'd wager that magic would come out far ahead. Since other options would be more popular, would sell better, and would be much less likely to be accidentally offensive, I think that other options would be a much better use of developer resources.
EA says they talk to disabled people, buuut... I think, that they just need to talk to some random disabled people and find out, what they think, not like activists or whoever. Because it's pretty obvious, that disabled activists would love it, but not too many people become activists, there are so many more, who don't.
And again, any disease, or disorder, or disability in most cases is a personal pain. All we need to do is accept those people and erase the line between them and us, healthy (or almost healthy) people not to make them feel "different" and alienated. And it's not about spreading sparkles above someone's head because he's in a wheelchair. It's about not paying any attention to the fact he's in a wheelchair.
In my country we used to have a very cool social advertising commercial on TV and every video was filmed as a little story, when you see a talented person, surrounded by loving friends and family, and get to know that person, and only in the end you see, that they are disabled. I remember one about a boy on stage called "school rock star", then the show's over and all the school boys and girls carry him in their arms and honor him, but then they get to their classroom and put him back to his wheelchair. And every video used to end with their slogan, smth like "Everyone is special. And there's no difference, if he's disabled or not. Because people are not divided that way".
It would take allot of time and energy but healthcare games and apps are deeply needed for teens and remember remove the dis and just call it "Sims Ability" plus having physicians vent the program teaching the team to develop a suitable game that doesn't offend others another option is creating "Sim Kids Hospital Adventure" where through Child life Kids and Teens connect one on one through hospitals in a Virtual sim giving them some fun this would include the Base Game where they play regular Sims game and then second the add on package would be free only to pediatric and Child Life Services where youth decorate their hospital room, meet the virtual sim docs, procedures etc. reducing medical based trauma there using robots so I ask myself " Why not sims?" giving youth who are struggling with being in Hospital.
Oh no, I'm not dramatically underestimating anything. I very well know it would take a huge amount of effort and time to do this and do it right. I've said this before. Just if you are talking about a wheelchair bound sims you would deal with transfers for everything... toilet, bed, chair, couch, bathing needs ect... You would have to leave some things out probably. Like they might only be able to use a certain type of shower in this game. I've transferred plenty of folks in my time and had to anticipate those needs.
Then of course you go beyond just needs into other activities, some might be limited. People brought up things like playing the guitar. There would have to be a lot reworked so they could do this from their position. They would have to look into romantic animations. It would be a huge undertaking. It doesn't mean some of these animations couldn't be applied to sims that aren't disabled though in many cases.
I'm not against it because of that just as I wasn't against toddlers even though I rarely use the little buggers personally.
I'm sorry the idea of putting effort into this bothers you.. it just does not bother me. I'm team all things. I want all that can come and be animated for this iteration. We don't know what they have planned long term, we don't know their budget, we don't know how long this series will last. It's all speculation on our parts. Can working on one thing delay another.. I'm sure it could. Will it cancel out that they other will never happen... umm we don't know but I'm banking on getting what I want out of this series, because I have so far.
I would appreciate it if you don't assume what I think in the future by the way. You'll probably be wrong.