Mad or disappointed players are almost always the most vocal on social media, so don't let them fool you. The game continues to have dozens of thousands of players on at a time almost 2 years after release, most games don't even come close to reaching TS4's in their entire lifetime. Comparing TS4's numbers to Steam's. We can see that TS4 remains one of the largest PC games out there.
Yep, but those mad and disappointed players don't want to hear this. They don't want to hear a game they don't like is doing well, so they pretend it's doing bad and it's worse than it is.
They want a game that's exactly how they want a Sims game, despite the fact no Sims game is the same and all of them are very different.
The Sims 2 is praised as the best Sims game ever. And yet The Sims 4 has the potential to offer more than what The Sims 2 has (with beach worlds) and people stick their nose up.
It's typical on this site that people dissatisfied with the game, over-do the game's limitations, because it;s more entertaining than playing another Sims game.
The last SimCity also sold well, it still killed the franchise though.
Mad or disappointed players are almost always the most vocal on social media, so don't let them fool you. The game continues to have dozens of thousands of players on at a time almost 2 years after release, most games don't even come close to reaching TS4's in their entire lifetime. Comparing TS4's numbers to Steam's. We can see that TS4 remains one of the largest PC games out there.
Yep, but those mad and disappointed players don't want to hear this. They don't want to hear a game they don't like is doing well, so they pretend it's doing bad and it's worse than it is.
They want a game that's exactly how they want a Sims game, despite the fact no Sims game is the same and all of them are very different.
The Sims 2 is praised as the best Sims game ever. And yet The Sims 4 has the potential to offer more than what The Sims 2 has (with beach worlds) and people stick their nose up.
It's typical on this site that people dissatisfied with the game, over-do the game's limitations, because it;s more entertaining than playing another Sims game.
The last SimCity also sold well, it still killed the franchise though.
Not exactly. Simcity BUILDIT still doing very well.
Mad or disappointed players are almost always the most vocal on social media, so don't let them fool you. The game continues to have dozens of thousands of players on at a time almost 2 years after release, most games don't even come close to reaching TS4's in their entire lifetime. Comparing TS4's numbers to Steam's. We can see that TS4 remains one of the largest PC games out there.
Yep, but those mad and disappointed players don't want to hear this. They don't want to hear a game they don't like is doing well, so they pretend it's doing bad and it's worse than it is.
They want a game that's exactly how they want a Sims game, despite the fact no Sims game is the same and all of them are very different.
The Sims 2 is praised as the best Sims game ever. And yet The Sims 4 has the potential to offer more than what The Sims 2 has (with beach worlds) and people stick their nose up.
It's typical on this site that people dissatisfied with the game, over-do the game's limitations, because it;s more entertaining than playing another Sims game.
The last SimCity also sold well, it still killed the franchise though.
Not exactly. Simcity BUILDIT still doing very well.
Well if that's what happens to the Sims I'll start crying already...
I don't want an app. I want a gorgeous PC game worthy of my 60 euros so I can have hours and hours of fun without micro transactions or waiting for hours to be able to play on.
Mad or disappointed players are almost always the most vocal on social media, so don't let them fool you. The game continues to have dozens of thousands of players on at a time almost 2 years after release, most games don't even come close to reaching TS4's in their entire lifetime. Comparing TS4's numbers to Steam's. We can see that TS4 remains one of the largest PC games out there.
Yep, but those mad and disappointed players don't want to hear this. They don't want to hear a game they don't like is doing well, so they pretend it's doing bad and it's worse than it is.
They want a game that's exactly how they want a Sims game, despite the fact no Sims game is the same and all of them are very different.
The Sims 2 is praised as the best Sims game ever. And yet The Sims 4 has the potential to offer more than what The Sims 2 has (with beach worlds) and people stick their nose up.
It's typical on this site that people dissatisfied with the game, over-do the game's limitations, because it;s more entertaining than playing another Sims game.
The last SimCity also sold well, it still killed the franchise though.
Not exactly. Simcity BUILDIT still doing very well.
It's a mobile game with micro-transactions, sounds like death to me.
well... that's disappointing. ts3 was ahead of its time, apparently.
How does that mean anything? All it means it that they had different focuses.
Yes, one focuses on being a sims game and a life simulation (aka TS3), the other doesn't (aka TS4).
Actually they're both Sims games (shocking, I know. It's not like it's in the title) And they just have different focuses on life.
One is a simulator for many different kind of players and the other is a barely finished simulator that only appeals to a small group of its former fans. So in my humble opinion s4 should've been named differently, it's not worthy of being a full Sims game. Maybe they could've named it Sims Community like Sims 3 had Sims Medieval. That might've worked way better...
Only appeals to a small group of fans? The game has surpassed 5 million copies sold. And even if only half of those like it, I'd hardly call that small.
They're both games for many different types of players, just because they don't appeal to the same ones don't make it more or less of a Sims games.
I'm glad you like it, but all I see is universal disappointment in this game. Many bought it and stopped playing all together. Others went back to Sims 3 because the game bored them so much. Figures don't always show the truth. I'm a Sims collector so I had to have the game and seriously try it.
I bet Sims 1, 2 and 3 did better and they kept doing good as long as they lived (except that EA/Maxis already failed at fixing bugs in their previous games...)
If Sims 4 was the first game in the series without the great predecessors it would never have sold so many copies.
Mad or disappointed players are almost always the most vocal on social media, so don't let them fool you. The game continues to have dozens of thousands of players on at a time almost 2 years after release, most games don't even come close to reaching TS4's in their entire lifetime. Comparing TS4's numbers to Steam's. We can see that TS4 remains one of the largest PC games out there.
Yep, but those mad and disappointed players don't want to hear this. They don't want to hear a game they don't like is doing well, so they pretend it's doing bad and it's worse than it is.
They want a game that's exactly how they want a Sims game, despite the fact no Sims game is the same and all of them are very different.
The Sims 2 is praised as the best Sims game ever. And yet The Sims 4 has the potential to offer more than what The Sims 2 has (with beach worlds) and people stick their nose up.
It's typical on this site that people dissatisfied with the game, over-do the game's limitations, because it;s more entertaining than playing another Sims game.
Players said The Sims 4 had potential before it launched, we're two years in - they can no longer sell this game on potential.
Half of the game's lifecycle was 🐸🐸🐸🐸 away on stuff packs and broken communication. Don't worry though, it still could potentially do lots of stuff. Key word 'potential' ..
@jackjack_k can't be bothered to quote all your quoting but sorry... you don't get to tell me what is worth being 'angry' about or not. Besides I said I was disappointed, not angry. Also considering that water is just pixels... too shallow as an excuse/reason doesn't work. The hot tub is also too shallow for completely submerged woohoo but it still happens.
I'm just trying to figure out how she knows the water is too shallow since Sims can't go into it. I mean, if a boat can navigate it the water would need to be a certain depth.
Through the magic of
*dum dum dum daaaaaam*
FX. The boats are FX and they don't really need to follow any physics as they're all the way in the background and don't require any "depth" as they would just float above the water and just... well... float!
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
well... that's disappointing. ts3 was ahead of its time, apparently.
How does that mean anything? All it means it that they had different focuses.
Yes, one focuses on being a sims game and a life simulation (aka TS3), the other doesn't (aka TS4).
Actually they're both Sims games (shocking, I know. It's not like it's in the title) And they just have different focuses on life.
One is a simulator for many different kind of players and the other is a barely finished simulator that only appeals to a small group of its former fans. So in my humble opinion s4 should've been named differently, it's not worthy of being a full Sims game. Maybe they could've named it Sims Community like Sims 3 had Sims Medieval. That might've worked way better...
Only appeals to a small group of fans? The game has surpassed 5 million copies sold. And even if only half of those like it, I'd hardly call that small.
They're both games for many different types of players, just because they don't appeal to the same ones don't make it more or less of a Sims games.
I'm glad you like it, but all I see is universal disappointment in this game. Many bought it and stopped playing all together. Others went back to Sims 3 because the game bored them so much. Figures don't always show the truth. I'm a Sims collector so I had to have the game and seriously try it.
I bet Sims 1, 2 and 3 did better and they kept doing good as long as they lived (except that EA/Maxis already failed at fixing bugs in their previous games...)
If Sims 4 was the first game in the series without the great predecessors it would never have sold so many copies.
Mad or disappointed players are almost always the most vocal on social media, so don't let them fool you. The game continues to have dozens of thousands of players on at a time almost 2 years after release, most games don't even come close to reaching TS4's in their entire lifetime. Comparing TS4's numbers to Steam's. We can see that TS4 remains one of the largest PC games out there.
Yep, but those mad and disappointed players don't want to hear this. They don't want to hear a game they don't like is doing well, so they pretend it's doing bad and it's worse than it is.
They want a game that's exactly how they want a Sims game, despite the fact no Sims game is the same and all of them are very different.
The Sims 2 is praised as the best Sims game ever. And yet The Sims 4 has the potential to offer more than what The Sims 2 has (with beach worlds) and people stick their nose up.
It's typical on this site that people dissatisfied with the game, over-do the game's limitations, because it;s more entertaining than playing another Sims game.
Players said The Sims 4 had potential before it launched, we're two years in - they can no longer sell this game on potential.
Half of the game's lifecycle was plum away on stuff packs and broken communication. Don't worry though, it still could potentially do lots of stuff. Key word 'potential' ..
I don't really rely on this users "facts" considering she uses inaccurate data heavily swayed towards the sims 4 (or sometimes no data at all) but that's just me.
So it's unlikely to add swimming into existing worlds because of terrain and routing issues. Okay. They can still add them into new worlds, and maybe they'll patch in another world for the BG with the 64x64 lots people have been asking for, as well as having areas where Sims can swim in.
Did I miss the memo where unlikely meant never?
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
I'm all for a new beach themed neighborhood. I'd love to bring back the life guard career, it was a pretty fun change and the precursor to our current Get a Job type gaming.
So it's unlikely to add swimming into existing worlds because of terrain and routing issues. Okay. They can still add them into new worlds, and maybe they'll patch in another world for the BG with the 64x64 lots people have been asking for, as well as having areas where Sims can swim in.
Did I miss the memo where unlikely meant never?
The only time we have gotten a free 'world' was when we got Newcrest and that was just a slightly modified Willow Creek.
As of now the only areas that support 64x64 sized lots are two neighborhoods in Windenburg. Seeing how WB was, and continues to be used to promote GT I doubt any 'free' world would be based on it. Additionally there is no room for 64x64 sized lots in the BG hoods - and creating additional hoods would be out of the question or else we would gave gotten that in the first place.
If we see swimming in lakes it will not be a base game activity. It'll be tied to a specific world, funny how TS4's solid foundation doesn't support expansion very well. At least I think so.
I'm not at all surprised. The way the game's worlds work would simply not allow for it. If anything, TS4 may be lucky to get TS2 styled beaches. They were very specific lots where your Sim would only be able to swim in a VERY small, confined area. It was nothing more than a glorified pool.
Then Sims 3 came along and completely blew the beach experience out of the water (pun intended). Take a look -- this entire area you are able to swim in. You could swim to far off islands, take a boat and quickly navigate around, ride a houseboat, go deep-sea diving, etc. And this is only a tiny portion of this world. The Sims 4 is simply not capable of this.
All in all, this game is INCREDIBLY limited when put next to both of its predecessors, The Sims 2, and especially The Sims 3. EA is better at coming up with excuse Tweets than creating a fun life simulation that truly innovates upon its predecessors.
This is what I was afraid of for TS4. We may not even get to scuba dive. What about mermaids? The kraken? Boating? What would be the point of houseboats then? Will we even need a lifeguard? So we may just get a lot with a "pool" and call it a beach?
If they can create an ocean in a new world our sim can swim in then houseboats and all the other stuff on your list is possible.
I'm not at all surprised. The way the game's worlds work would simply not allow for it. If anything, TS4 may be lucky to get TS2 styled beaches. They were very specific lots where your Sim would only be able to swim in a VERY small, confined area. It was nothing more than a glorified pool.
Then Sims 3 came along and completely blew the beach experience out of the water (pun intended). Take a look -- this entire area you are able to swim in. You could swim to far off islands, take a boat and quickly navigate around, ride a houseboat, go deep-sea diving, etc. And this is only a tiny portion of this world. The Sims 4 is simply not capable of this.
All in all, this game is INCREDIBLY limited when put next to both of its predecessors, The Sims 2, and especially The Sims 3. EA is better at coming up with excuse Tweets than creating a fun life simulation that truly innovates upon its predecessors.
This is what I was afraid of for TS4. We may not even get to scuba dive. What about mermaids? The kraken? Boating? What would be the point of houseboats then? Will we even need a lifeguard? So we may just get a lot with a "pool" and call it a beach?
Maybe, like in TS1:
In a 2014-2016 game, I have to say: "Oh..the joy!"
well... that's disappointing. ts3 was ahead of its time, apparently.
How does that mean anything? All it means it that they had different focuses.
Yes, one focuses on being a sims game and a life simulation (aka TS3), the other doesn't (aka TS4).
Actually they're both Sims games (shocking, I know. It's not like it's in the title) And they just have different focuses on life.
One is a simulator for many different kind of players and the other is a barely finished simulator that only appeals to a small group of its former fans. So in my humble opinion s4 should've been named differently, it's not worthy of being a full Sims game. Maybe they could've named it Sims Community like Sims 3 had Sims Medieval. That might've worked way better...
Only appeals to a small group of fans? The game has surpassed 5 million copies sold. And even if only half of those like it, I'd hardly call that small.
They're both games for many different types of players, just because they don't appeal to the same ones don't make it more or less of a Sims games.
I'm glad you like it, but all I see is universal disappointment in this game. Many bought it and stopped playing all together. Others went back to Sims 3 because the game bored them so much. Figures don't always show the truth. I'm a Sims collector so I had to have the game and seriously try it.
I bet Sims 1, 2 and 3 did better and they kept doing good as long as they lived (except that EA/Maxis already failed at fixing bugs in their previous games...)
If Sims 4 was the first game in the series without the great predecessors it would never have sold so many copies.
Mad or disappointed players are almost always the most vocal on social media, so don't let them fool you. The game continues to have dozens of thousands of players on at a time almost 2 years after release, most games don't even come close to reaching TS4's in their entire lifetime. Comparing TS4's numbers to Steam's. We can see that TS4 remains one of the largest PC games out there.
I'm only interested in comparisons to it's predecessors. And then I still think this game is the biggest failure ever because I know Sims 3 was sold second handed many times, it was also a game that could be played by poorer gamers. So Sims 1, 2 and 3 sales are even way higher than what we see. Or things like sharing with siblings. My sister and I shared our Sims games. Later I shared with my other sister and after that I even shared with a friend of mine. Split the costs and both enjoy it.
Come to the Netherlands see how many people try to get rid of their Sims 4 copy "got it for my Bday, played once, didn't like it." I know for sure that of those 5 million copies AT LEAST half ended up on a shelf to never be played again.
But again, I'm glad you like it and even think it's a game worth to be defended.
You know nothing for sure. Like I said, dissatisfied players are always the most vocal and basing your argument on a few thousand players out of millions is absurd. I'd extremely, highly doubt if even %5 of those at least 5 million refunded, not to even mention the absurd %50 you seem so bent on.
I never spoke about refunding. I know that's not a big thing in many places because it's a plummy to really get a refund. At least where I live. But I have seen how many put the game away and that really is a very large portion.
I said half of those games were barely played and put away because it lacks, a lot.
Ah, I see what you're saying, but isn't that true for pretty much any game? Every game has large portion of players that will stop playing after a few sessions, it isn't a Sims 4 thing, it happens to every game. Yes, that includes Sims 1-3 too.
Well, I haven't seen as many drop outs with the previous games. There's even a large group that dropped s4 to go back to The Sims 3 and even The Sims 2.
I wonder would it be against privacy rules for EA to see how many hours on average people spend in a game? I think s4 would be way lower than other games that are offered on Origin.
Yes it's disappointing to see youtubers dropping Sims 4 from their Let's Plays. I'm one of the supporters of this game and think it will get better with future content. EA Maxis needs to bring back the popular eps and gamepacks like vacations,pets,seasons and generations just to name a few and ocean swimming of course.
Well he's right about the terrain. If sims were able to walk into bodies of water surely they'd hardcore clip through the ground and possibly fall out of the world. There is literally no actual ocean terrain in water, it's a really low definition grass texture. Go into free-cam mode and see for yourself. (Windenburg, specifically)
[/list]
Exactly the case, but of course, everyone wants a Sims 4 Pity party, so comments with reason like this, are going to be ignored.
The Sims 3 has an advantage of world aspects, there's no disputing that. But the Sims 4 was never about the "worlds". Neither was The Sims 1 and 2.
It was a selling point of 3.
Which makes s4 a downgraded game. Many great aspects from The Sims 2 and 3 disappeared but it didn't add much in my opinion. Yeahh silly walks... and emotions that are shallow in my humble opinion.
No it doesn't. Not focusing on the world aspect, doesn't make it downgraded.
The Sims 2 didn't focus on worlds at all, and it's regarded as the best Sims game ever.
Devs have already said they have barely scratched the surface of what The Sims 4 has to offer.
In two years, barely scratching what this game has to offer is just silly. What are they doing, waiting for the game to reach it's final year mark and release the best EP? It's like asking for us not to give them money.
And TS2 had toddlers, actual teens, much greater detail, actual retail stores you could buy from, carpools, NPC's we are still yet to have!! Terrain and pond tools, multi level windows and foundations that aren't for the whole lot.
And TS3 had Cast and traits as a selling point as well, which I might add, are much better done there than in TS4. And guess what, toddlers weren't sacrificed in the name of anything, yet in TS4 it seems everything was sacrificed in the name of musical chairs, clipping and dancing emotions.
THe previous 3 games weren't also told to turn 4-5 years of work on an MMO, into a singleplayer game in a year. BUt I guess that pesky fact keeps getting in the way
Should I feel bad for the developers and pay 60 dollars for a mediocre game that their company rushed out?
Anyway, since you like to throw around the Gallery users online bit, it has 13,000 online right now. I'm not seeing that dozens of ten thousands players online you are claiming to see. I did go to the Steam stats page, and found that it'd be ranked about 20th on that list, with games that released way before TS4 outranking it. Not exactly good for a 2014 title. We can probably attribute its presence on that list thanks to the constant base game sales -- it dips around 25 dollars constantly.
Regardless, I could care less about these statistics. I just want a good game, and TS4 misses that spot on my own, and many other's, favorites list -- the only lists that truly matter.
In all honesty, it doesn't even matter. The only world I can see having swimmable waters is Windenburg. So all they'd have to do is revamp that and they're good. Unless of course, they continue to make unswimmable waters in the new worlds, which is bound to happen if EP3 doesn't revolve around beaches.
~I just like lifestates. Is that too much to ask for?~
Daniel Hiatt said that making new terrain for that purpose in existing worlds is unlikely. Sounds like "complexity is our enemy," all over again.
That quote always makes me so sad. I like complexity. I like depth. To me, this game lacks depth in a lot of ways. Sims 2 was a deeper game, it had so much going on beneath the surface. Even now, so many years later, I'm still finding out new things about it. Just the way that attraction worked in the game was more complex than anything I can think of in Sims 4. I love tick boxes and settings and being able to fiddle with the way things work, but there is so little of that in Sims 4.
THe previous 3 games weren't also told to turn 4-5 years of work on an MMO, into a singleplayer game in a year. BUt I guess that pesky fact keeps getting in the way
I am sorry about that, I truly am. I am certain that untold hours and money were wasted working on stuff that was completely scrapped, and that if that time and money had instead been spent on Sims 4 as a single-player game, we would all be a lot happier with this game. But... it's not my problem. It's not. Not I, nor any of the other 5 million+ people who bought the game, made the decision for them to try and make an online game and then turn it into a single player game. And they didn't cut us a discount on the game, they still charged the same full AAA game price.
It's just frustrating to be told that features we had in previous games are now "too hard" and "too expensive." I don't see any huge leap of an upgrade like we had going from Sims 1 to Sims 2, or the change to open worlds and addition of create-a-style when going from Sims 2 to Sims 3. Emotions are a new addition, but are they really THAT big of a feature? Not to me.
To me personally, being able to swim in the ocean isn't a huge draw. But this is just yet another thing on a long list of features or lack thereof that are disappointments and letdowns. I understand that memories contributed to corruption in Sims 2, and that the open world and create-a-style contributed to lag in Sims 3. But instead of just throwing all of that out, maybe they could have improved it or fixed it so that it didn't cause so many problems. I don't think that having a system of memories is something that's impossible or totally unrealistic. The open world and create-a-style may have been too much, but maybe open neighborhoods and a partial color wheel would have possible. I would be thrilled with a mini color wheel that had as few as 20-25 colors so that I could make stuff match.
This game just feels so much more limited than any of the previous games did, even more than Sims 1 in some ways. Relationship and Sim culling makes the world feel much less real to me. What's the point in going out and meeting new Sims if my Sims are just going to forget them in a few days, unless of course they're deleted first? It makes the game feel hollow.
People do love their buzz phrases. And then they repeat them and put their own spin on them, frequently taking them out of context and adding their own to prove whatever it is they believe. "Complexity is our enemy" for instance. Which wasn't saying that we don't want to make a complex game, at all. It was simply stating a fact about the nature of their work. Ever hear the phrase "work smarter, not harder"? Same concept. I'd bet most people live by that creed when it comes to their work--you don't go into something trying to figure out the most difficult way to complete the job anymore than the developers do and with a game that's already as complex as the Sims, adding more complexity is probably not a great idea.
How about "too hard" and "too expensive"? How about someone show me that specific quote from one of the devs. If I'm remembering correctly, no one will be able to show me that because I'm fairly sure none of the devs have said it. Fans who were upset with this version of the game have coined those phrases and used them regularly in the forums, claiming that Maxis has said this or at least meant it. I really have yet to see anyone actually link back to one of the devs making these statements anywhere.
As for the MMO thing, it's perfectly understandable for people to be disappointed with the fact that Maxis probably started off making a rather different game and had to switch direction near the end of development. We did end up with a very poor release for the game and a number of things that even Maxis admitted they wanted to see in the game were missing. Several of them did get added in but first impressions have quite an impact and for a lot of people, their first impression of TS4 was bad. Thing is, there's nothing any of us or, at this point, Maxis can do about that. It happened. End of story. However anyone feels about it, it is what it is. Not saying anyone should give them a break, I'm just saying that whether you want to give them a break for it or not won't change what happened already.
Read again what @SimGuruDaniel said: Oceans for existing worlds? Unlikely. We'd probably have to make new terrain specifically for that purpose. The question was if the oceans could be made routable so Sims could swim in them. The answer wasn't that it can't be done, as you seem to imply. The answer was that it was unlikely to be done in existing worlds but new terrain could be made specifically for that. So, new neighborhoods or new worlds with swimmable oceans sound quite possible. It feels like people sometimes take a comment from the devs and just leap the most extreme conclusion. How long before we see comments from people thrown out about how swimming in oceans isn't possible at all? And then, when we end up with swimming in the oceans and lakes in new worlds, people will claim that the devs lied because we were supposedly told it wasn't possible--kind of like all the comments people made regarding Graham's interview with Kotaku about why pools weren't in at launch.
I doubt there's anyone who's 100% happy with this game. I'm not sure it's possible to make a game like that. There are a few things I'd see changed myself, but I can say that about all of the Sims games. I'd be playing stories that are lot darker but the Sims will probably never offer that sort of gameplay so I resort to mods. I know that doesn't work for a lot of people, though, so I do hope that Maxis manages to find that magic balance where they can offer more of what people want while maintaining the lower pc requirements they've been aiming for. And while it's not a fix for everyone, those who are comfortable with mods can at least turn to them to fine tune the game to their specifications (i.e. no culling, no relationship culling, story progression for NPCs, etc.).
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
@jackjack_k it really becomes annoying to me when I read some of your posts that seem to put words into other posters mouths. You are the only person who is making a 'too shallow' discussion out of this.
I read : Oceans for existing worlds? Unlikely. We'd probably have to make new terrain specifically for that purpose.
My personal response: disappointment.
At no point have I begun wailing and wringing my hands in mock despair/horror about some nonsense about sims never being able to swim in open bodies of water... As far as I can see this idea seems to be also coming from you.
The facts are very simple. Oceans for existing worlds? Unlikely. We'd probably have to make new terrain specifically for that purpose. End of story.
It is a disappointing claim from a guru however not entirely unexpected. Of course the bodies of water, so far, have not been designed for open bodies of water swimming but I was hoping it would be relatively easy to refigure them.... apparently not. How disappointing.
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
People do love their buzz phrases. And then they repeat them and put their own spin on them, frequently taking them out of context and adding their own to prove whatever it is they believe. "Complexity is our enemy" for instance. Which wasn't saying that we don't want to make a complex game, at all. It was simply stating a fact about the nature of their work. Ever hear the phrase "work smarter, not harder"? Same concept. I'd bet most people live by that creed when it comes to their work--you don't go into something trying to figure out the most difficult way to complete the job anymore than the developers do and with a game that's already as complex as the Sims, adding more complexity is probably not a great idea.
No, "Complexity is our enemy," does not mean anything near "work harder, not smarter." SimGuruMax clearly states here that creating babies that could be carried were a headache in TS3, so they decided that it wasn't worth it and simply focused on the interactions with the baby because creating carryable babies "would have occupied [his] time entirely for many months," instead of working on the socialization and multitasking features. That sounds like another way of saying, "We cut corners." The developers can certainly "work smarter, not harder" without cutting corners.
How about "too hard" and "too expensive"? How about someone show me that specific quote from one of the devs. If I'm remembering correctly, no one will be able to show me that because I'm fairly sure none of the devs have said it. Fans who were upset with this version of the game have coined those phrases and used them regularly in the forums, claiming that Maxis has said this or at least meant it. I really have yet to see anyone actually link back to one of the devs making these statements anywhere.
SimGuruGraham later clarified the story with lounge chairs saying, "'Are lounge chairs a compelling enough feature to spend X% of time of a Stuff Pack's overall capacity to implement them?' then the answer we've reached is "No."' He added that because of limitations, the development of lounge chairs could have meant that they were the only new functional object in the stuff pack.
As for the MMO thing, it's perfectly understandable for people to be disappointed with the fact that Maxis probably started off making a rather different game and had to switch direction near the end of development. We did end up with a very poor release for the game and a number of things that even Maxis admitted they wanted to see in the game were missing. Several of them did get added in but first impressions have quite an impact and for a lot of people, their first impression of TS4 was bad. Thing is, there's nothing any of us or, at this point, Maxis can do about that. It happened. End of story. However anyone feels about it, it is what it is. Not saying anyone should give them a break, I'm just saying that whether you want to give them a break for it or not won't change what happened already.
Nothing to discuss here.
Read again what @SimGuruDaniel said: Oceans for existing worlds? Unlikely. We'd probably have to make new terrain specifically for that purpose. The question was if the oceans could be made routable so Sims could swim in them. The answer wasn't that it can't be done, as you seem to imply. The answer was that it was unlikely to be done in existing worlds but new terrain could be made specifically for that. So, new neighborhoods or new worlds with swimmable oceans sound quite possible. It feels like people sometimes take a comment from the devs and just leap the most extreme conclusion. How long before we see comments from people thrown out about how swimming in oceans isn't possible at all? And then, when we end up with swimming in the oceans and lakes in new worlds, people will claim that the devs lied because we were supposedly told it wasn't possible--kind of like all the comments people made regarding Graham's interview with Kotaku about why pools weren't in at launch.
People can only go by what they see and hear. They released Newcrest which was a redo of Willow Creek last year. Apart from that and Windenberg, new worlds have been hard to come by in TS4. The studio's been so secret about everything, of course speculation is going to run wild. If they were more open, people would be less likely to run crazy with the few tidbits the Maxis does release.
I doubt there's anyone who's 100% happy with this game. I'm not sure it's possible to make a game like that. There are a few things I'd see changed myself, but I can say that about all of the Sims games. I'd be playing stories that are lot darker but the Sims will probably never offer that sort of gameplay so I resort to mods. I know that doesn't work for a lot of people, though, so I do hope that Maxis manages to find that magic balance where they can offer more of what people want while maintaining the lower pc requirements they've been aiming for. And while it's not a fix for everyone, those who are comfortable with mods can at least turn to them to fine tune the game to their specifications (i.e. no culling, no relationship culling, story progression for NPCs, etc.).
Mods should not be used to to fix problems that Maxis introduces into the game. People paid $60-70 bucks for the game and it should work as advertised, yet for many people it doesn't.
@jackjack_k There are a lot of things in TS4 that don't follow reality. I don't see why it has to suddenly be applied here. Also, there's tons to do in shallow water. It's not just for swimming.
If you don't want Sims clipping through the ground, it would need to follow reality.
And I don't believe EA have said anything about other activities. They mentioned Swimming, so that's all I'm talking about.
The only parts of Windenburg that are deep enough for swimming is the Old Town and Modern District, which would look a bit sillily and in real life, would be banned.
(...)
Also, Windenburg doesn't have proper beaches it's just near the ocean.
The island in Widenburg does have proper beaches. And they would definitely be swimable in real life too (if they're deep enough for Nessie they must be deep enough for our sims...)
If you go into TAB mode, the water is shallow until the very edge. It's not a swimming beach, people don't swim in those areas in real life either.
If it was deep enough for fake boats and seamonsters - why is it not deep enough for sims? All this game has actually is .... EXCUSES!
The fake boats and steam monsters are much further in the distance. And I don't get how they are fake, and the lighthouse or boats in the Sims 3 are any more "real".
And it's not an excuse. I know YOU in particular would have a field day, if EA let Sims swim in shallow water where you can see them clipping through the ground. Let's be honest here, you know you would.
If the water around the island is not swimable because it's not deep enough then it's a design failure and entirely the team's fault. In real life, water that looks like that and has monsters and sea boats would DEFINITELY be swimable...so if it's not then the team should have thought about it when they designed the world.
That's precisely why I just don't believe this game is a strong foundation at all (as they claimed). They make these kind of design choices that make the game as pretty and as shallow as Widenburg's beach.
Well he's right about the terrain. If sims were able to walk into bodies of water surely they'd hardcore clip through the ground and possibly fall out of the world. There is literally no actual ocean terrain in water, it's a really low definition grass texture. Go into free-cam mode and see for yourself. (Windenburg, specifically)
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Exactly the case, but of course, everyone wants a Sims 4 Pity party, so comments with reason like this, are going to be ignored.
The Sims 3 has an advantage of world aspects, there's no disputing that. But the Sims 4 was never about the "worlds". Neither was The Sims 1 and 2.
It was a selling point of 3.
Sims 1's selling point was life simulation/never done before. Sims 2's selling point was playing out family life to the very detail (correct me if I'm wrong), Sims 3's was giving the sims a world to live their lives in, expanding the simulation and pulling it out of the domestic situation (if the water's too shallow at the beach, just wade a little further). I'm not sure what Sims 4's selling point is so far. Other than an emotion system most people don't seem to care about or even dislike because it makes all the sims identical. There was a topic a while ago where people collected pros for the game and up till the moment I left that topic no-one had mentioned them yet.
Well he's right about the terrain. If sims were able to walk into bodies of water surely they'd hardcore clip through the ground and possibly fall out of the world. There is literally no actual ocean terrain in water, it's a really low definition grass texture. Go into free-cam mode and see for yourself. (Windenburg, specifically)
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Exactly the case, but of course, everyone wants a Sims 4 Pity party, so comments with reason like this, are going to be ignored.
The Sims 3 has an advantage of world aspects, there's no disputing that. But the Sims 4 was never about the "worlds". Neither was The Sims 1 and 2.
It was a selling point of 3.
Sims 1's selling point was life simulation/never done before. Sims 2's selling point was playing out family life to the very detail (correct me if I'm wrong), Sims 3's was giving the sims a world to live their lives in, expanding the simulation and pulling it out of the domestic situation (if the water's too shallow at the beach, just wade a little further). I'm not sure what Sims 4's selling point is so far. Other than an emotion system most people don't seem to care about or even dislike because it makes all the sims identical. There was a topic a while ago where people collected pros for the game and up till the moment I left that topic no-one had mentioned them yet.
Exactly. They keep telling us that some features had to be cut because they had to focus on other stuff. But the question remains: what stuff?
I get why they moved away from the open world concept: performance on lower end computers. Okay.
But what about the rest? What major feature did they focus on instead of toddlers? What feature requires relationships and even entire families to be culled?
How about "too hard" and "too expensive"? How about someone show me that specific quote from one of the devs. If I'm remembering correctly, no one will be able to show me that because I'm fairly sure none of the devs have said it. Fans who were upset with this version of the game have coined those phrases and used them regularly in the forums, claiming that Maxis has said this or at least meant it. I really have yet to see anyone actually link back to one of the devs making these statements anywhere.
SimGuruGraham later clarified the story with lounge chairs saying, "'Are lounge chairs a compelling enough feature to spend X% of time of a Stuff Pack's overall capacity to implement them?' then the answer we've reached is "No."' He added that because of limitations, the development of lounge chairs could have meant that they were the only new functional object in the stuff pack.
Comments
The last SimCity also sold well, it still killed the franchise though.
Not exactly. Simcity BUILDIT still doing very well.
Well if that's what happens to the Sims I'll start crying already...
I don't want an app. I want a gorgeous PC game worthy of my 60 euros so I can have hours and hours of fun without micro transactions or waiting for hours to be able to play on.
Some links that helped me a lot:
Missing Store Stencils / Free Kiddy Stuff / Daily Deals / Daily Deals Spreadsheets / The Gifting Directory
It's a mobile game with micro-transactions, sounds like death to me.
Players said The Sims 4 had potential before it launched, we're two years in - they can no longer sell this game on potential.
Half of the game's lifecycle was 🐸🐸🐸🐸 away on stuff packs and broken communication. Don't worry though, it still could potentially do lots of stuff. Key word 'potential' ..
Through the magic of
*dum dum dum daaaaaam*
FX. The boats are FX and they don't really need to follow any physics as they're all the way in the background and don't require any "depth" as they would just float above the water and just... well... float!
I don't really rely on this users "facts" considering she uses inaccurate data heavily swayed towards the sims 4 (or sometimes no data at all) but that's just me.
Did I miss the memo where unlikely meant never?
The only time we have gotten a free 'world' was when we got Newcrest and that was just a slightly modified Willow Creek.
As of now the only areas that support 64x64 sized lots are two neighborhoods in Windenburg. Seeing how WB was, and continues to be used to promote GT I doubt any 'free' world would be based on it. Additionally there is no room for 64x64 sized lots in the BG hoods - and creating additional hoods would be out of the question or else we would gave gotten that in the first place.
If we see swimming in lakes it will not be a base game activity. It'll be tied to a specific world, funny how TS4's solid foundation doesn't support expansion very well. At least I think so.
If they can create an ocean in a new world our sim can swim in then houseboats and all the other stuff on your list is possible.
Oh how I hope we get waterslides back.
Yes it's disappointing to see youtubers dropping Sims 4 from their Let's Plays. I'm one of the supporters of this game and think it will get better with future content. EA Maxis needs to bring back the popular eps and gamepacks like vacations,pets,seasons and generations just to name a few and ocean swimming of course.
Should I feel bad for the developers and pay 60 dollars for a mediocre game that their company rushed out?
Anyway, since you like to throw around the Gallery users online bit, it has 13,000 online right now. I'm not seeing that dozens of ten thousands players online you are claiming to see. I did go to the Steam stats page, and found that it'd be ranked about 20th on that list, with games that released way before TS4 outranking it. Not exactly good for a 2014 title. We can probably attribute its presence on that list thanks to the constant base game sales -- it dips around 25 dollars constantly.
Regardless, I could care less about these statistics. I just want a good game, and TS4 misses that spot on my own, and many other's, favorites list -- the only lists that truly matter.
Just a couple of the things you can do in the best Sims game ever made. No knee deep water here.
― Mark Twain
That quote always makes me so sad. I like complexity. I like depth. To me, this game lacks depth in a lot of ways. Sims 2 was a deeper game, it had so much going on beneath the surface. Even now, so many years later, I'm still finding out new things about it. Just the way that attraction worked in the game was more complex than anything I can think of in Sims 4. I love tick boxes and settings and being able to fiddle with the way things work, but there is so little of that in Sims 4.
I am sorry about that, I truly am. I am certain that untold hours and money were wasted working on stuff that was completely scrapped, and that if that time and money had instead been spent on Sims 4 as a single-player game, we would all be a lot happier with this game. But... it's not my problem. It's not. Not I, nor any of the other 5 million+ people who bought the game, made the decision for them to try and make an online game and then turn it into a single player game. And they didn't cut us a discount on the game, they still charged the same full AAA game price.
It's just frustrating to be told that features we had in previous games are now "too hard" and "too expensive." I don't see any huge leap of an upgrade like we had going from Sims 1 to Sims 2, or the change to open worlds and addition of create-a-style when going from Sims 2 to Sims 3. Emotions are a new addition, but are they really THAT big of a feature? Not to me.
To me personally, being able to swim in the ocean isn't a huge draw. But this is just yet another thing on a long list of features or lack thereof that are disappointments and letdowns. I understand that memories contributed to corruption in Sims 2, and that the open world and create-a-style contributed to lag in Sims 3. But instead of just throwing all of that out, maybe they could have improved it or fixed it so that it didn't cause so many problems. I don't think that having a system of memories is something that's impossible or totally unrealistic. The open world and create-a-style may have been too much, but maybe open neighborhoods and a partial color wheel would have possible. I would be thrilled with a mini color wheel that had as few as 20-25 colors so that I could make stuff match.
This game just feels so much more limited than any of the previous games did, even more than Sims 1 in some ways. Relationship and Sim culling makes the world feel much less real to me. What's the point in going out and meeting new Sims if my Sims are just going to forget them in a few days, unless of course they're deleted first? It makes the game feel hollow.
People do love their buzz phrases. And then they repeat them and put their own spin on them, frequently taking them out of context and adding their own to prove whatever it is they believe. "Complexity is our enemy" for instance. Which wasn't saying that we don't want to make a complex game, at all. It was simply stating a fact about the nature of their work. Ever hear the phrase "work smarter, not harder"? Same concept. I'd bet most people live by that creed when it comes to their work--you don't go into something trying to figure out the most difficult way to complete the job anymore than the developers do and with a game that's already as complex as the Sims, adding more complexity is probably not a great idea.
How about "too hard" and "too expensive"? How about someone show me that specific quote from one of the devs. If I'm remembering correctly, no one will be able to show me that because I'm fairly sure none of the devs have said it. Fans who were upset with this version of the game have coined those phrases and used them regularly in the forums, claiming that Maxis has said this or at least meant it. I really have yet to see anyone actually link back to one of the devs making these statements anywhere.
As for the MMO thing, it's perfectly understandable for people to be disappointed with the fact that Maxis probably started off making a rather different game and had to switch direction near the end of development. We did end up with a very poor release for the game and a number of things that even Maxis admitted they wanted to see in the game were missing. Several of them did get added in but first impressions have quite an impact and for a lot of people, their first impression of TS4 was bad. Thing is, there's nothing any of us or, at this point, Maxis can do about that. It happened. End of story. However anyone feels about it, it is what it is. Not saying anyone should give them a break, I'm just saying that whether you want to give them a break for it or not won't change what happened already.
Read again what @SimGuruDaniel said: Oceans for existing worlds? Unlikely. We'd probably have to make new terrain specifically for that purpose. The question was if the oceans could be made routable so Sims could swim in them. The answer wasn't that it can't be done, as you seem to imply. The answer was that it was unlikely to be done in existing worlds but new terrain could be made specifically for that. So, new neighborhoods or new worlds with swimmable oceans sound quite possible. It feels like people sometimes take a comment from the devs and just leap the most extreme conclusion. How long before we see comments from people thrown out about how swimming in oceans isn't possible at all? And then, when we end up with swimming in the oceans and lakes in new worlds, people will claim that the devs lied because we were supposedly told it wasn't possible--kind of like all the comments people made regarding Graham's interview with Kotaku about why pools weren't in at launch.
I doubt there's anyone who's 100% happy with this game. I'm not sure it's possible to make a game like that. There are a few things I'd see changed myself, but I can say that about all of the Sims games. I'd be playing stories that are lot darker but the Sims will probably never offer that sort of gameplay so I resort to mods. I know that doesn't work for a lot of people, though, so I do hope that Maxis manages to find that magic balance where they can offer more of what people want while maintaining the lower pc requirements they've been aiming for. And while it's not a fix for everyone, those who are comfortable with mods can at least turn to them to fine tune the game to their specifications (i.e. no culling, no relationship culling, story progression for NPCs, etc.).
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
I read : Oceans for existing worlds? Unlikely. We'd probably have to make new terrain specifically for that purpose.
My personal response: disappointment.
At no point have I begun wailing and wringing my hands in mock despair/horror about some nonsense about sims never being able to swim in open bodies of water... As far as I can see this idea seems to be also coming from you.
The facts are very simple. Oceans for existing worlds? Unlikely. We'd probably have to make new terrain specifically for that purpose. End of story.
It is a disappointing claim from a guru however not entirely unexpected. Of course the bodies of water, so far, have not been designed for open bodies of water swimming but I was hoping it would be relatively easy to refigure them.... apparently not. How disappointing.
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
No, "Complexity is our enemy," does not mean anything near "work harder, not smarter." SimGuruMax clearly states here that creating babies that could be carried were a headache in TS3, so they decided that it wasn't worth it and simply focused on the interactions with the baby because creating carryable babies "would have occupied [his] time entirely for many months," instead of working on the socialization and multitasking features. That sounds like another way of saying, "We cut corners." The developers can certainly "work smarter, not harder" without cutting corners.
People are not making any of this stuff up. SimGuruSarah has also made some comments.
"Our tech is more limiting than TS3."
"Lounge chairs are very expensive to make."
SimGuruGraham later clarified the story with lounge chairs saying, "'Are lounge chairs a compelling enough feature to spend X% of time of a Stuff Pack's overall capacity to implement them?' then the answer we've reached is "No."' He added that because of limitations, the development of lounge chairs could have meant that they were the only new functional object in the stuff pack.
Nothing to discuss here.
People can only go by what they see and hear. They released Newcrest which was a redo of Willow Creek last year. Apart from that and Windenberg, new worlds have been hard to come by in TS4. The studio's been so secret about everything, of course speculation is going to run wild. If they were more open, people would be less likely to run crazy with the few tidbits the Maxis does release.
Mods should not be used to to fix problems that Maxis introduces into the game. People paid $60-70 bucks for the game and it should work as advertised, yet for many people it doesn't.
If the water around the island is not swimable because it's not deep enough then it's a design failure and entirely the team's fault. In real life, water that looks like that and has monsters and sea boats would DEFINITELY be swimable...so if it's not then the team should have thought about it when they designed the world.
That's precisely why I just don't believe this game is a strong foundation at all (as they claimed). They make these kind of design choices that make the game as pretty and as shallow as Widenburg's beach.
Exactly. They keep telling us that some features had to be cut because they had to focus on other stuff. But the question remains: what stuff?
I get why they moved away from the open world concept: performance on lower end computers. Okay.
But what about the rest? What major feature did they focus on instead of toddlers? What feature requires relationships and even entire families to be culled?
I could add this to the list http://modthesims.info/m/showthread.php?p=4432554#post4432554