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Is it okay for personality improvements to be tied to EPs?

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    Cabelle1863Cabelle1863 Posts: 2,251 Member
    Wolfium wrote: »
    Features that are general should go into base game, features tied thematically with pack should go with that pack.

    This. I'm really hoping they will do the right thing and that the main parts of this new feature will be patched in for the base game, with Snowy Excape-specific ones to be part of the pack. I'd be really disappointed in them if much needed personality improvements are locked to the pack. Hopefully we'll find out when they have the live stream.
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    fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    The personality improvement is one of the 4 main features in the pack. No way it will be a base game update.

    Photography and the photo studio was one of the features of GTW. It became free in a later patch.
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    Bearpal64Bearpal64 Posts: 1,117 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    The personality improvement is one of the 4 main features in the pack. No way it will be a base game update.

    Photography and the photo studio was one of the features of GTW. It became free in a later patch.

    Yup! I just looked that up today actually lol.
    Seasons brought the Gardening Overhaul. Island Living brought the swimming/fishing overhaul? And Get Together has the group thing which I feel was also added to base game.

    I feel so confident that this won't be Snowy Escape exclusive. I could be wrong but I feel like I'm not
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    SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    Bearpal64 wrote: »
    fullspiral wrote: »
    The personality improvement is one of the 4 main features in the pack. No way it will be a base game update.

    Photography and the photo studio was one of the features of GTW. It became free in a later patch.

    Yup! I just looked that up today actually lol.
    Seasons brought the Gardening Overhaul. Island Living brought the swimming/fishing overhaul? And Get Together has the group thing which I feel was also added to base game.

    I feel so confident that this won't be Snowy Escape exclusive. I could be wrong but I feel like I'm not

    @Bearpal64 Are any of these listed in the pack description as one of the main foru features? Except for photography which was listed as half a point, they aren't.
    We are talking about a big selling point of the pack here not just small features like adding sims to a group or changes in fishing.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
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    SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,845 Member
    Bearpal64 wrote: »
    I think the main fix would be
    That this personality upgrade be patched into the main game.
    That they start to utilize toggles/options much more to appeal to those of us who want control over everything and those of us who don't mind a bit of chaos.

    I'm all for anything involving toggles haha! The more the better!
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    bella_gothbella_goth Posts: 1,770 Member
    Bearpal64 wrote: »
    I think the main fix would be
    That this personality upgrade be patched into the main game.
    That they start to utilize toggles/options much more to appeal to those of us who want control over everything and those of us who don't mind a bit of chaos.

    I'm all for anything involving toggles haha! The more the better!

    same, toggles are able to adapt to many kind of players, devs should consider making more instead of nerfing things in the game like they did with vampires
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    SimTrippySimTrippy Posts: 7,651 Member
    Bearpal64 wrote: »
    fullspiral wrote: »
    The personality improvement is one of the 4 main features in the pack. No way it will be a base game update.

    Photography and the photo studio was one of the features of GTW. It became free in a later patch.

    Yup! I just looked that up today actually lol.
    Seasons brought the Gardening Overhaul. Island Living brought the swimming/fishing overhaul? And Get Together has the group thing which I feel was also added to base game.

    I feel so confident that this won't be Snowy Escape exclusive. I could be wrong but I feel like I'm not

    Yes but as has now been stated many times over since the beginning of this thread: none of those are listed on the product page as part of the 4 core pack features.

    The equivalent would be patching in the parenthood system or the entire fame system for free.

    And again: it should have absolutely been a free thing after the millions and trillions of requests for actual personality depth BUT now that it's a core feature that will convince at least some people who otherwise wouldn't to buy this pack...they really shouldn't patch it in a year later.
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    JemmaTheSimmerJemmaTheSimmer Posts: 387 Member
    I don't mind if this is a proper fleshed out feature being included in an expansion, like the character values. So long as it is a proper gameplay feature, that is probably too much for a free update. This feature does not appear to be fixing any of the base game problems with traits, it seems unrelated as it is based on actions and behaviour rather than traits.

    I think the main issue is the fact that traits are broken, and a shiny new system does not fix this, no matter how good it is. It is also a concern that this will mean they won't bother to fix the underlying issues with traits and just have this instead and pretend it is fixed. They need to fix traits properly, if they do that then I think that will help a lot and make the new system feel like a proper expansion and not a premium bug fix.
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    SilentKittySilentKitty Posts: 4,665 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    If the personality additions are tied to the pack, I think it's possibly because they actually do change your Sims' behaviors (as the write-up claims) with a hidden system, and I've seen some other players say they don't want that, they like the Sims the way they are now. If a big change like this were to be patched in after six years, Maxis could have another horde of angry players on their backs. Many people who are already invested in the game are comfortable with the mechanics, so to suddenly change that on them could be disruptive. The majority of the player base isn't on the Forums or stalking the game on social media, so I suppose it would be risky.

    But personally, I was hoping we'd get it patched into the foundation of the game so it can be expanded on in the future. Unless it's based on the Myers and Briggs Sixteen Personalities psychology, which I suspect it might be, in which case that's all there is to that theory and it's a pretty solid one.

    I suspect there will still be personality issues because, yes, the foundation isn't solid. The traits are still meager and flaccid, there is still no Fear emotion or Worry or Anxiety so there is no completion to emotions, and enemy/rival behaviors hardly exist. Without the basics of core behaviors, it's hard to build a system on top of it that brings the needed changes, but I won't say it's impossible. Sims 2 added personality in packs just fine.

    All in all, I think it's a good start. Properly changing Sim behaviors is going to be a long process that I don't think can be done in one swift move. So it will be important for us to leave feedback on this system and let them know what works, what doesn't, and where we think they should go from here. The fact that we are getting a system shows that they are invested in our requests and interests and it's possible that they have been working on this for a while. To me, this is a major turning point and will require both positive and negative detailed feedback because this might influence how the devs move forward with related content and it could potentially bring the long-awaited changes in the game for the better.

    I like that you can tailor your sims to what you want them to be. I hardly use the reputation-system at all and Get Famous is my least used expansion. This way you can keep your sims the way they are if that is how you prefer them. I am really really looking forward to this pack but will see how this plays out before updating my game and I want to read feedback before I buy the EP. I am currently a patron of Roburky and use meaningful stories. I really like how my sims are now.

    This could be a nice side-addition or something that have a huge impact on my game like clubs from Get Together. It is good to be able to decide what to add to your game yourself.
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    halloweenchildhalloweenchild Posts: 1,534 Member
    Absolutely not, these personality updates and overhaul should have been added to the game for free YEARS ago. Personally, I am hoping the majority of the overhaul comes in the pre-pack patch because I will be annoyed if it doesn't.
    Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
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    LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,449 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    If the personality additions are tied to the pack, I think it's possibly because they actually do change your Sims' behaviors (as the write-up claims) with a hidden system, and I've seen some other players say they don't want that, they like the Sims the way they are now. If a big change like this were to be patched in after six years, Maxis could have another horde of angry players on their backs. Many people who are already invested in the game are comfortable with the mechanics, so to suddenly change that on them could be disruptive. The majority of the player base isn't on the Forums or stalking the game on social media, so I suppose it would be risky.

    But personally, I was hoping we'd get it patched into the foundation of the game so it can be expanded on in the future. Unless it's based on the Myers and Briggs Sixteen Personalities psychology, which I suspect it might be, in which case that's all there is to that theory and it's a pretty solid one.

    I suspect there will still be personality issues because, yes, the foundation isn't solid. The traits are still meager and flaccid, there is still no Fear emotion or Worry or Anxiety so there is no completion to emotions, and enemy/rival behaviors hardly exist. Without the basics of core behaviors, it's hard to build a system on top of it that brings the needed changes, but I won't say it's impossible. Sims 2 added personality in packs just fine.

    All in all, I think it's a good start. Properly changing Sim behaviors is going to be a long process that I don't think can be done in one swift move. So it will be important for us to leave feedback on this system and let them know what works, what doesn't, and where we think they should go from here. The fact that we are getting a system shows that they are invested in our requests and interests and it's possible that they have been working on this for a while. To me, this is a major turning point and will require both positive and negative detailed feedback because this might influence how the devs move forward with related content and it could potentially bring the long-awaited changes in the game for the better.

    I like that you can tailor your sims to what you want them to be. I hardly use the reputation-system at all and Get Famous is my least used expansion. This way you can keep your sims the way they are if that is how you prefer them. I am really really looking forward to this pack but will see how this plays out before updating my game and I want to read feedback before I buy the EP. I am currently a patron of Roburky and use meaningful stories. I really like how my sims are now.

    This could be a nice side-addition or something that have a huge impact on my game like clubs from Get Together. It is good to be able to decide what to add to your game yourself.

    I use Meaningful Stories as well, it's great! But I'll be preparing my game for the pack, removing mods and all that so I can test it out vanilla on release day. I'm going to try to give some reports here as I test it out so people will know how the Lifestyles and Sentiments work out. I figure other people risked Eco Lifestyle and dealt with the bugs, so this time it's my turn, since I've been making a ruckus about personality improvements. :lol:
    #Team Occult
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    LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,449 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    If the personality additions are tied to the pack, I think it's possibly because they actually do change your Sims' behaviors (as the write-up claims) with a hidden system, and I've seen some other players say they don't want that, they like the Sims the way they are now. If a big change like this were to be patched in after six years, Maxis could have another horde of angry players on their backs. Many people who are already invested in the game are comfortable with the mechanics, so to suddenly change that on them could be disruptive. The majority of the player base isn't on the Forums or stalking the game on social media, so I suppose it would be risky.

    But personally, I was hoping we'd get it patched into the foundation of the game so it can be expanded on in the future. Unless it's based on the Myers and Briggs Sixteen Personalities psychology, which I suspect it might be, in which case that's all there is to that theory and it's a pretty solid one.

    I suspect there will still be personality issues because, yes, the foundation isn't solid. The traits are still meager and flaccid, there is still no Fear emotion or Worry or Anxiety so there is no completion to emotions, and enemy/rival behaviors hardly exist. Without the basics of core behaviors, it's hard to build a system on top of it that brings the needed changes, but I won't say it's impossible. Sims 2 added personality in packs just fine.

    All in all, I think it's a good start. Properly changing Sim behaviors is going to be a long process that I don't think can be done in one swift move. So it will be important for us to leave feedback on this system and let them know what works, what doesn't, and where we think they should go from here. The fact that we are getting a system shows that they are invested in our requests and interests and it's possible that they have been working on this for a while. To me, this is a major turning point and will require both positive and negative detailed feedback because this might influence how the devs move forward with related content and it could potentially bring the long-awaited changes in the game for the better.

    I like that you can tailor your sims to what you want them to be. I hardly use the reputation-system at all and Get Famous is my least used expansion. This way you can keep your sims the way they are if that is how you prefer them. I am really really looking forward to this pack but will see how this plays out before updating my game and I want to read feedback before I buy the EP. I am currently a patron of Roburky and use meaningful stories. I really like how my sims are now.

    This could be a nice side-addition or something that have a huge impact on my game like clubs from Get Together. It is good to be able to decide what to add to your game yourself.

    I use Meaningful Stories as well, it's great! But I'll be preparing my game for the pack, removing mods and all that so I can test it out vanilla on release day. I'm going to try to give some reports here as I test it out so people will know how the Lifestyles and Sentiments work out. I figure other people risked Eco Lifestyle and dealt with the bugs, so this time it's my turn, since I've been making a ruckus about personality improvements. :lol:
    #Team Occult
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    CelSimsCelSims Posts: 2,270 Member
    edited October 2020
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    If the personality additions are tied to the pack, I think it's possibly because they actually do change your Sims' behaviors (as the write-up claims) with a hidden system, and I've seen some other players say they don't want that, they like the Sims the way they are now. If a big change like this were to be patched in after six years, Maxis could have another horde of angry players on their backs. Many people who are already invested in the game are comfortable with the mechanics, so to suddenly change that on them could be disruptive. The majority of the player base isn't on the Forums or stalking the game on social media, so I suppose it would be risky.

    But personally, I was hoping we'd get it patched into the foundation of the game so it can be expanded on in the future. Unless it's based on the Myers and Briggs Sixteen Personalities psychology, which I suspect it might be, in which case that's all there is to that theory and it's a pretty solid one.

    I suspect there will still be personality issues because, yes, the foundation isn't solid. The traits are still meager and flaccid, there is still no Fear emotion or Worry or Anxiety so there is no completion to emotions, and enemy/rival behaviors hardly exist. Without the basics of core behaviors, it's hard to build a system on top of it that brings the needed changes, but I won't say it's impossible. Sims 2 added personality in packs just fine.

    All in all, I think it's a good start. Properly changing Sim behaviors is going to be a long process that I don't think can be done in one swift move. So it will be important for us to leave feedback on this system and let them know what works, what doesn't, and where we think they should go from here. The fact that we are getting a system shows that they are invested in our requests and interests and it's possible that they have been working on this for a while. To me, this is a major turning point and will require both positive and negative detailed feedback because this might influence how the devs move forward with related content and it could potentially bring the long-awaited changes in the game for the better.

    I like that you can tailor your sims to what you want them to be. I hardly use the reputation-system at all and Get Famous is my least used expansion. This way you can keep your sims the way they are if that is how you prefer them. I am really really looking forward to this pack but will see how this plays out before updating my game and I want to read feedback before I buy the EP. I am currently a patron of Roburky and use meaningful stories. I really like how my sims are now.

    This could be a nice side-addition or something that have a huge impact on my game like clubs from Get Together. It is good to be able to decide what to add to your game yourself.

    I use Meaningful Stories as well, it's great! But I'll be preparing my game for the pack, removing mods and all that so I can test it out vanilla on release day. I'm going to try to give some reports here as I test it out so people will know how the Lifestyles and Sentiments work out. I figure other people risked Eco Lifestyle and dealt with the bugs, so this time it's my turn, since I've been making a ruckus about personality improvements. :lol:

    Spend a week playing totally vanilla before you get it, or subconsciously you will be comparing it to your modded sims and not what they are actually like :)
    You will also need to use totally new sims, for a week before, then start the same sims brand new all over again with the pack. The reason I say this is that my own testing showed that with quite a lot of activities, the more you make a sim do them then the more likely they will autonomously do it. For example it took over 150x of making a sim complete a side job for programming before they did it autonomously. And I did that one three times to be sure.... Skill levels and repetition in being instructed to do something has an effect on autonomy.

    I'm really interested to see if sims will know that they have a bad relationship with someone and actually be rude to them instead of hugging despite having thrown a drink in their face a moment before.
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    CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,329 Member
    The more I think on this, the more I think it's going to be a system kind of like the celebrity system. If that's the case then it absolutely does belong in a pack. If it's just a general personality overhaul, that belongs in the base game. We will find out a lot more next week during the livestream.
    Origin ID: Peapod79
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    SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 7,128 Member
    I think they should have put it in the base.
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    BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    edited October 2020
    Camkat wrote: »
    The more I think on this, the more I think it's going to be a system kind of like the celebrity system. If that's the case then it absolutely does belong in a pack. If it's just a general personality overhaul, that belongs in the base game. We will find out a lot more next week during the livestream.

    And of course if it's a meaningful upgrade but locked to a pack I would suspect it was deliberately held back to milk money from a base game feature.
    Post edited by Beardedgeek on
    Origin ID: A_Bearded_Geek
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    SilentKittySilentKitty Posts: 4,665 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    If the personality additions are tied to the pack, I think it's possibly because they actually do change your Sims' behaviors (as the write-up claims) with a hidden system, and I've seen some other players say they don't want that, they like the Sims the way they are now. If a big change like this were to be patched in after six years, Maxis could have another horde of angry players on their backs. Many people who are already invested in the game are comfortable with the mechanics, so to suddenly change that on them could be disruptive. The majority of the player base isn't on the Forums or stalking the game on social media, so I suppose it would be risky.

    But personally, I was hoping we'd get it patched into the foundation of the game so it can be expanded on in the future. Unless it's based on the Myers and Briggs Sixteen Personalities psychology, which I suspect it might be, in which case that's all there is to that theory and it's a pretty solid one.

    I suspect there will still be personality issues because, yes, the foundation isn't solid. The traits are still meager and flaccid, there is still no Fear emotion or Worry or Anxiety so there is no completion to emotions, and enemy/rival behaviors hardly exist. Without the basics of core behaviors, it's hard to build a system on top of it that brings the needed changes, but I won't say it's impossible. Sims 2 added personality in packs just fine.

    All in all, I think it's a good start. Properly changing Sim behaviors is going to be a long process that I don't think can be done in one swift move. So it will be important for us to leave feedback on this system and let them know what works, what doesn't, and where we think they should go from here. The fact that we are getting a system shows that they are invested in our requests and interests and it's possible that they have been working on this for a while. To me, this is a major turning point and will require both positive and negative detailed feedback because this might influence how the devs move forward with related content and it could potentially bring the long-awaited changes in the game for the better.

    I like that you can tailor your sims to what you want them to be. I hardly use the reputation-system at all and Get Famous is my least used expansion. This way you can keep your sims the way they are if that is how you prefer them. I am really really looking forward to this pack but will see how this plays out before updating my game and I want to read feedback before I buy the EP. I am currently a patron of Roburky and use meaningful stories. I really like how my sims are now.

    This could be a nice side-addition or something that have a huge impact on my game like clubs from Get Together. It is good to be able to decide what to add to your game yourself.

    I use Meaningful Stories as well, it's great! But I'll be preparing my game for the pack, removing mods and all that so I can test it out vanilla on release day. I'm going to try to give some reports here as I test it out so people will know how the Lifestyles and Sentiments work out. I figure other people risked Eco Lifestyle and dealt with the bugs, so this time it's my turn, since I've been making a ruckus about personality improvements. :lol:

    So you are the tribute for this EP. I salute you!

    Will sit back here with origin offline, keeping my fingers crossed for you.

    * insert Katnis-gif *
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    bixtersbixters Posts: 2,299 Member
    Camkat wrote: »
    The more I think on this, the more I think it's going to be a system kind of like the celebrity system. If that's the case then it absolutely does belong in a pack. If it's just a general personality overhaul, that belongs in the base game. We will find out a lot more next week during the livestream.

    I'm hoping that's what it is, but the description does make it sound like a really deep feature. But then again, the description was extremely vague. So who know!
    I'm just preparing myself for the worst :/
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    BlkBarbiegalBlkBarbiegal Posts: 7,924 Member
    We definitely need more information on how this lifestyle and so on works? Hard for me to judge personally. If it's a trait rework, then yes I think that it should be in a patch. Such as, my mean and evil sim will actually be mean and evil and not all sunshine and rainbows. But if this lifestyle thing goes deeper than that, sure, it’s fine to be added to an EP. But that's my opinion.☺️
    Me on:
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    bixtersbixters Posts: 2,299 Member
    I also wonder how does this connect to snow and vacations? Will there be a Skiing Lifestyle? It just seems totally out of the blue. Unless it's similar to the vacation perks you got in the Sims 2 with Bon Voyage, but this sounds more in depth than that.
    If it doesn't connect with this pack at all, it definitely should be in the base game.
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    BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    bixters wrote: »
    I also wonder how does this connect to snow and vacations? Will there be a Skiing Lifestyle? It just seems totally out of the blue. Unless it's similar to the vacation perks you got in the Sims 2 with Bon Voyage, but this sounds more in depth than that.
    If it doesn't connect with this pack at all, it definitely should be in the base game.

    If it can be used outside of this world, it's probably not "Skiing" but "XTREME" or something other corny name for it; Climbing, eating poisonous dishes, skiing, snow boarding, doing all the tricks on the water jet...
    Origin ID: A_Bearded_Geek
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    bixtersbixters Posts: 2,299 Member
    bixters wrote: »
    I also wonder how does this connect to snow and vacations? Will there be a Skiing Lifestyle? It just seems totally out of the blue. Unless it's similar to the vacation perks you got in the Sims 2 with Bon Voyage, but this sounds more in depth than that.
    If it doesn't connect with this pack at all, it definitely should be in the base game.

    If it can be used outside of this world, it's probably not "Skiing" but "XTREME" or something other corny name for it; Climbing, eating poisonous dishes, skiing, snow boarding, doing all the tricks on the water jet...

    That would be boring. Sounds no different than aspirations. I wonder if these are just aspirations with perks attached to each level you complete?
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    WallSims4everWallSims4ever Posts: 755 Member
    edited October 2020
    Improvements? Yes. That happened in Sims 2 and 3 as well.
    Fundamental changes? No.
    Am I complaining? Not really. I mean, I'd rather pay for better personalities than not having better personalities at all. It's not like I haven't paid for hamsters, butlers or SPA's. And it's not like I wouldn't buy Snowy Escape anyway.
    Do people have the right to complain? Yes.
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    LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,449 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    If the personality additions are tied to the pack, I think it's possibly because they actually do change your Sims' behaviors (as the write-up claims) with a hidden system, and I've seen some other players say they don't want that, they like the Sims the way they are now. If a big change like this were to be patched in after six years, Maxis could have another horde of angry players on their backs. Many people who are already invested in the game are comfortable with the mechanics, so to suddenly change that on them could be disruptive. The majority of the player base isn't on the Forums or stalking the game on social media, so I suppose it would be risky.

    But personally, I was hoping we'd get it patched into the foundation of the game so it can be expanded on in the future. Unless it's based on the Myers and Briggs Sixteen Personalities psychology, which I suspect it might be, in which case that's all there is to that theory and it's a pretty solid one.

    I suspect there will still be personality issues because, yes, the foundation isn't solid. The traits are still meager and flaccid, there is still no Fear emotion or Worry or Anxiety so there is no completion to emotions, and enemy/rival behaviors hardly exist. Without the basics of core behaviors, it's hard to build a system on top of it that brings the needed changes, but I won't say it's impossible. Sims 2 added personality in packs just fine.

    All in all, I think it's a good start. Properly changing Sim behaviors is going to be a long process that I don't think can be done in one swift move. So it will be important for us to leave feedback on this system and let them know what works, what doesn't, and where we think they should go from here. The fact that we are getting a system shows that they are invested in our requests and interests and it's possible that they have been working on this for a while. To me, this is a major turning point and will require both positive and negative detailed feedback because this might influence how the devs move forward with related content and it could potentially bring the long-awaited changes in the game for the better.

    I like that you can tailor your sims to what you want them to be. I hardly use the reputation-system at all and Get Famous is my least used expansion. This way you can keep your sims the way they are if that is how you prefer them. I am really really looking forward to this pack but will see how this plays out before updating my game and I want to read feedback before I buy the EP. I am currently a patron of Roburky and use meaningful stories. I really like how my sims are now.

    This could be a nice side-addition or something that have a huge impact on my game like clubs from Get Together. It is good to be able to decide what to add to your game yourself.

    I use Meaningful Stories as well, it's great! But I'll be preparing my game for the pack, removing mods and all that so I can test it out vanilla on release day. I'm going to try to give some reports here as I test it out so people will know how the Lifestyles and Sentiments work out. I figure other people risked Eco Lifestyle and dealt with the bugs, so this time it's my turn, since I've been making a ruckus about personality improvements. :lol:

    So you are the tribute for this EP. I salute you!

    Will sit back here with origin offline, keeping my fingers crossed for you.

    * insert Katnis-gif *

    Thank you, I appreciate it! It's possible I venture towards my own demise. Pray for me...ehr, or light candles or cross your fingers or eyes or something.

    I just found myself wondering if we are going to get a big patch to tweak traits before this EP releases. Maybe they'll put something in the game in addition to the Lifestyles and Sentiment things.
    #Team Occult
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    VentusMattVentusMatt Posts: 1,028 Member
    I think the Lifestyle & Sentiment system will be a base game feature but just like how Lot Traits the ones that will be added into the base game will be simple while the more interesting ones will be locked to Snowy Escape. I just hope that this feature ends up being like Clubs where they go back and add new ones for previous packs and add news one as new packs come out.

    Now how much depth and personality will this add idk we'll just have to wait and see.
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