@ellessarr, I stayed away from the clay because of its unpredictability. I can just imagine the havoc it could create if I let a bunch of unsupervised Sims have a bunch of clay strewn around the house!
Anyway, here's what I'm thinking about for my next go round.
The Moderate House:
It has been built. I gave myself a budget of 150,000. (For comparison, the Budget House was done on 34,000 and the Experimental House was done on about 300,000). I spent it down to about 15k, which should be enough for cooking and painting expenses. The house is comfortable. One floor. 4 bedrooms (all with moderate beds), 4.5 bathrooms (4 good showers). Nicely appointed kitchen with moderate appliances. There is noformaldiningroomset, just an oblong counter with barstools all around. It is not attached to any wall -- it floats in the kitchen. This way, we can test the theory of whether Sims avoid islands.
There are adequate opportunities to build skills (instruments, easels, computers, chess table, kitchen, gym).
Every room and/or area has enough decor to provide a minimum 7-10 Environmental score. This is probably closer to what most players' Sim homes have and should help counteract negative vibes. The other two houses had very little in the way of environmental boosters. I will also have also placed Happy plumbob lamps in key areas (living room, kitchen, music room, workroom, computer area).
There are two fireplaces. For the record, there were no fireplaces in the other two homes. Note to self: make sure to put alarms and sprinklers on each fireplace. Done.
The Crew:
I'm going with the same crew as the last two tests but with some tweaks. These kids have been real troopers -- I should give them a raise! (Nah... ). Anyway, this time around, I am going to make a concerted effort to coordinate traits, jobs and aspirations better, giving each Sim the best chance of learning and acting on his/her skills. Setting them up for success, as it were. Each Sim will have one specific skill that corresponds directly to his/her personality and I will level that skill up to level 5. That should give them adequate "practice" (I hope) to begin taking matters into their own hands.
So, for example, Brooke, my painter, will have Creative, Art Lover and Perfectionist. She will join the Painting Career and, of course, I'll make sure she's leveled up to 5 in Painting. Each Sim will follow suit. For those who don't have 3 specific job-related traits, I will give Cheerful (which boosts Happy, which boosts all the other moods) or Neat. There will be at least 3 Neat Sims. As in the other tests, there will be no anti-social or counterproductive traits.
As for other skills, I'm again using only skills that can be done inside the house and that don't require a lot of hand-holding (so, no Gardening). No Herbalism, Fishing, Rocket Science, etc. Every Sim will get a headstart in 4 skills, taken from the following list: Video Gaming, Programming, Cooking, Mixology, Writing, Fitness, Handiness. I will not start them on Comedy or Charisma because those are easily picked up simply by Sims chatting at one another. I will be ready to officially start the test (again, I'm doing one full week) once every Sim has a minimum of 1 primary skill and 4 secondary skills.
I will not worry about fulfilling Daily Requirements, since it seems they will not do that on their own. Nor will I worry about them getting into the proper mood for work. Again, that's something that seems like it needs to be player directed, and that's ok. I'm not going to worry about Whims, either. Whims are almost definitely a player-driven exercise (except for accidental social whims).
As for Repairs, I will Replace broken objects. It's fairly obvious to me that Sims won't bother repairing on their own. However, I am including a workbench, in case anyone wants to level Handiness that way. I will add to the budget as needed to replace broken things.
Other notes:
To reiterate, I am running NO CC, no mods and nothing from the Gallery. There is nothing from the outside that can influence how the Crew operates.
I've had much more luck with instruments getting autonomous use since I started putting them in inventories of sims I've trained to play them. My painter paints regularly when he has the creative emotion.
I'll try putting the guitar in my musician's backpack. Wouldn't it be lovely if we could put an easel in the backpack?
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File has begun. I got to 10:30am Sunday before RL called me away. Each Sim has secured a job and each has begun work on his/her Primary Skill. Additionally, I'm delighted to report that 5 of them spontaneously started skills unrelated to their Primary Skill, Aspiration or Career! Granted, they were Social skills (Comedy, Charisma) or purely fun (Chess, video games), but it's a start! At least they're trying to be industrious. Maybe they overheard me talking about raises... .
I tried to do this with my current household and one of my sim spent the whole day playing the violin and leveling up on his own. He only stopped cuz he needed to pee. Thank goodness there wasn't any bladder failure. They also tend to wash their own dishes right after eating.
The Moderate House had its first Bladder Failure on Sunday night at 9:30. Hehe didn't even make it 24 sim-hours!
Interesting fact: Bladder Failure in Experimental House = Randall. Bladder Failure in Budget House = Angie. TWICE. Budget Failure in Moderate House = Randall. AGAIN.
The Moderate House had its first Bladder Failure on Sunday night at 9:30. Hehe didn't even make it 24 sim-hours!
Interesting fact: Bladder Failure in Experimental House = Randall. Bladder Failure in Budget House = Angie. TWICE. Budget Failure in Moderate House = Randall. AGAIN.
Methinks Randall may have an issue...
You should watch his every move if you can. What I did was watch my sims but I only had three. They spend most of their time watching each other play the guitar or violin. LOL.
The Moderate House had its first Bladder Failure on Sunday night at 9:30. Hehe didn't even make it 24 sim-hours!
Interesting fact: Bladder Failure in Experimental House = Randall. Bladder Failure in Budget House = Angie. TWICE. Budget Failure in Moderate House = Randall. AGAIN.
Methinks Randall may have an issue...
You should watch his every move if you can. What I did was watch my sims but I only had three. They spend most of their time watching each other play the guitar or violin. LOL.
But that's part of what I'm trying to test. I'm doing hands off for the most part for these tests. If it turns out that I have to micro-manage a Sim that much, that's not good. They should have enough sense not to wet themselves.
At this writing, I'm about one sim-week into this test. I've had two more accidents. This time, it was Savannah. TWICE. And all the toilets are functioning, so that's not it. She just wasn't attending to her personal needs .
Anyway, I think things are fairly well set up. It is early Sim-Saturday morning. Every Sim has level 5 in their primary skill and at least 1 point in 4 other skills. Some have 5 or 6 skills started! I'm going to take the rest of Sim-Saturday to player-direct them such everyone is in good spirits by Sim-Sunday 8am. Then, we're off to the races .
The Moderate House had its first Bladder Failure on Sunday night at 9:30. Hehe didn't even make it 24 sim-hours!
Interesting fact: Bladder Failure in Experimental House = Randall. Bladder Failure in Budget House = Angie. TWICE. Budget Failure in Moderate House = Randall. AGAIN.
Methinks Randall may have an issue...
You should watch his every move if you can. What I did was watch my sims but I only had three. They spend most of their time watching each other play the guitar or violin. LOL.
But that's part of what I'm trying to test. I'm doing hands off for the most part for these tests. If it turns out that I have to micro-manage a Sim that much, that's not good. They should have enough sense not to wet themselves.
At this writing, I'm about one sim-week into this test. I've had two more accidents. This time, it was Savannah. TWICE. And all the toilets are functioning, so that's not it. She just wasn't attending to her personal needs .
Anyway, I think things are fairly well set up. It is early Sim-Saturday morning. Every Sim has level 5 in their primary skill and at least 1 point in 4 other skills. Some have 5 or 6 skills started! I'm going to take the rest of Sim-Saturday to player-direct them such everyone is in good spirits by Sim-Sunday 8am. Then, we're off to the races .
Oh, no. I don't mean to micro-manage them but just follow them around and watch what they do. So maybe you can find out the reason why they have bladder failures or feel uncomfortable, etc.
I took Week One (Sunday, 8am through Sunday 7:59am) to get all the Sims set up. Each has a primary skill (level 5) which relates to his/her job and at least one trait. Additionally, each has at least 4 other skills at level 1. I then cheated to make everyone's needs all green, so we'd start with a clean slate. They were all in great moods, either Happy, Inspired or Confident. No one had a negative mood. Additionally, I, personally, cleaned the entire house and replaced any broken items (I had been doing that throughout the week, anyway) and put additional skill books in the bookshelf. I made sure Phoenix, my guitarist, had a guitar in his backpack for easy access.
Sunday, 8am Week Two, I set them off on their own. It is now Tuesday, 11-something pm.
Sadly, I think Phoenix may be broken. While the others are (semi) taking care of themselves, Phoenix is stuck. His needs fell to nearly 100% red in every category, yet he wouldn't move. He stood in one spot, whining and crying until he collapsed in a heap. I tried giving him direction (which breaks the "hands off' rule, but whatever). He did the actions, then went back to being stuck. I did a "reset Sim" twice, which helped for about 10 seconds, then he went back to being stuck. I made him sleep in a bed, which he did, then he went back to being stuck. I've now exited back to desktop. If THAT doesn't fix him, I'm afraid we'll just have to discount Phoenix's contributions to the test. I'm sure his Uncomfortable will be off the chart. Phoenix's results will negatively skew the experiment.
So, while I appreciate his efforts, I think we'll have to let Phoenix have a pass for testing purposes.
Autonomy works better if you play a sim a bit.. They somehow learn some habits you give them.. Like cleaning the dishes or working out. Autonomy doesn't work for repair broken stuff, and even if you "teach" them what to do in their time, you can't prevent the nap/pc obsession/eating out of control issues.
That's what we've been working out in this thread -- what will they do and what won't they do, when left to their own devices. That's also why, this time around, I made sure each one had worked on at least one skill a lot. I'm hoping, when allowed to work on their own, they will gravitate toward that skill.
Of course, I feel I shouldn't have to train adults (or even teens) to attend to their personal needs. There's no excuse for falling asleep in a heap on the floor when there's a perfectly good, unoccupied bed virtually steps away. It's the needs inattention that disappoints me moreso than autonomous skill building (or lack thereof).
Probably they wait to know which bed to choose.. mine nap on the sofa if I don't direct them two or three times to their bed. Also, the PC makes them forget their needs, they can play or troll the forum 'till Death.
I controlled this sim couple, but I also paid attention to what happened when they were roaming free.
New observation: My sim went to continue cooking an unfinished dish! Cooking is her passion.
Problems: I've taught them their beds and they really should know them, but at one point they started picking the wrong bed. I don't know if it's because they get mixed up from having woohoo in their bed or if it's because I don't remember who sleeps on what side of the bed so it varies... They picked wrong even when their bed was empty.
Bugs?: they wanted to kiss and ran behind the house to do it... okay. I suspect my other family did the same thing yesterday.
I haven't tried letting a solo Sim loose. Maybe I should one day, just to see what they do.
I have some videos, I put one Sim in a house recently (very tiny, poor house) No tv, no bookcase, nothing. She didn't care for herself at all. I kept my fingers away from the mouse though it was hard and I had to hold them so I wouldn't click. lol She played on her phone for hours non stop until her needs were in the red. She needed social, I made her go stand on the side walk where other Sims were passing her house...she did not go over to them to greet them...her social was in the red...she took out her handy dandy phone and played games. You don't want to turn them lose if you are not prepared to kill one.
ETA: Fun was full but she took out that phone and played games for three straight days. ETA: she did not go to bed to go to sleep, she took naps and would only eat cereal. She had no wish or desire or smarts to cook some food. Oh, and got drinks out of the fridge 'After' she was finally full.
I normally micro-manage my sims but im sooo gonna try this and see how long it takes my sim to kill herself , lol
....if I let the non-active Sims in the household fend for themselves for 24 or more sim-hours, I find they haven't taken adequate care of themselves......I wonder: am I doing something wrong? Or is this the way autonomy is supposed to work?
I've played Sims 2 for years and picked up Sims 4 because it seemed like it was going to be a lot like Sims 2. In both games I've found that it helps to let them make some dumb mistakes, for a few days. Otherwise they'll be turning to me for help every time they have to use the toilet. And what I mostly want to do is watch my sims do their own things, not micromanage them.
I also have weebl_101's autonomous interactions mod installed. It enables them to do more things autonomously. FYI, for me, sims from TS1-TS4 are a lot more entertaining if you take away the television, no matter now many times they whine about not having a "household necessity". I haven't played much at all without this mod installed, so I can't say much about the unmodded game. But with it installed, especially if you also install weebl_101's Faster Sim autonomy, they can take care of themselves pretty well--if I don't "help" them every time they make a mistake. I've found they are making repairs, even. But I have the full package installed, which means they can also autonomously propose, try for baby, and get divorced without my interference. And yes, I've seen them do all those things, but there's a less extreme version where you retain control those three interactions. If you don't want them to have that much freedom, they are still able to care for thenselves better with Faster Autonomy. All it does is shorten the delay between actions while they decide what to do next. This is weebl_101's page
I forgot--I also have "no autonomous phone interactions" and "no selfies" installed, because I play a historical game and I don't want to watch them keep playing on their little gadgets. I think that taking away their electronics helps keep them focused on essentials. :P
@SiliClone, in these tests, I haven't observed an issue with knowing which bed to choose. Since all the beds are identical, I've observed each Sim just plops down in one. They don't seem to be picky as to which bed belongs to whom.
That said, I think I figured out what was bugging Phoenix (yay!!!). More on that at the end of this post.
@Simmese, I tend to micro-manage, too. Thing is, I want to micro-manage the fun stuff, not the basics: "Go pee, now. Eat a sandwich, now". I want/need them to take some initiate to manage their own survival needs. Heck, I don't even like it when they break the fourth wall to *alert* me that they need to go potty. You're an adult -- quit the histrionics and just go, dang it (and not in your pants, thank you)!
@professorlilith, as I've said, I personally don't use mods, but I thank you wholeheartedly for suggesting those! For folks who DO use mods, I'm sure they are a great addition to the game. Thanks for providing the link and recommendations!
Now, as for Phoenix, as I said, I think I figured out what was bugging him (figuratively and literally). Another Sim (Kenji) seemed to have caught Phoenix's bug (grrr) and began ignoring all his needs. In an attempt to determine the problem, I fully examined both guys (oh, get your minds out of the gutter !), I discovered each had rotten food in his backpack. Apparently, it kept them from bathing, socializing, eating and going to bed. Why? I don't know. I also have no idea how it got there, but once I removed it, they both resumed acting normally. Well, as normally as can be expected. Anyway, I will continue to monitor them both and I will include Phoenix's data in the test results. I'll just note that some of his excessive Uncomfortable is due to his temporary bug.
I controlled this sim couple, but I also paid attention to what happened when they were roaming free.
New observation: My sim went to continue cooking an unfinished dish! Cooking is her passion.
Problems: I've taught them their beds and they really should know them, but at one point they started picking the wrong bed. I don't know if it's because they get mixed up from having woohoo in their bed or if it's because I don't remember who sleeps on what side of the bed so it varies... They picked wrong even when their bed was empty.
Bugs?: they wanted to kiss and ran behind the house to do it... okay. I suspect my other family did the same thing yesterday.
I've had at least one who went out to pee in the public park (ewww!) instead of using one of the 5 perfectly useable, available and CLEAN toilets at home. Sometimes I really wonder what goes on in their heads haha.
I wish I could report better results, but sadly, I can't. Overall, based on the three tests, I can say without reservation that I'm disappointed in the way autonomy and Sim AI works in Sims 4. I can't compare it to Sims 3 autonomy because I haven't tested that. But overall, I feel things in TS4 could have (and perhaps should have) been better.
Anyway, here are some stats about Test 3
Moderate House:
Mid-range appliances, 1 floor, no basement. No dining room set -- kitchen boasts an oval shaped island with barstools all around. 5 toilets, 4 showers, chess, 2 easels, 1 guitar, 2 large wall TVs, 2 excellent stereo systems, 2 top-line computers, piano, violin, microphone, workbench, skill books added to bookshelf. 8 comfortable beds and numerous sofas. Every room/area had enough decor to score at least 7-10 Environmental.
How Test 3 was conducted:
Test ran 2 weeks. During Week One, I semi-micro-managed the Sims. Each secured a job which corresponded to his/her traits. Each also worked diligently to skill one skill level to 5. That "primary" skill corresponded directly to the Sim's career and at least one trait. In other words, each Sim had a lot of training and practice at doing something. In theory, this should have ensured that they were good at something and thus more likely to do it autonomously.
At the end of Week One, I cheated every Sim to ensure all needs were back to 100%. Additionally, I personally cleaned the entire house, making sure there were no dirty dishes and no dirty or broken things. This was to ensure they all started in good moods and there was nothing in the house to negatively impact those good moods.
During Week Two, the Sims were left to their own devices.
Results for two weeks in the Moderate House:
Bladder Failures: 5 (4 different Sims)
Passed Out: 33 (Phoenix accounted for 20 of them)
Happy: 605
Tense: 168 (interestingly, the Crew scored 169 in ONE week in the Budget House)
Uncomfortable: 1374 (THIS is what I'm most disappointed in)
Missed Work: 1
Promotions Earned: 8 (every Sim got one promotion, no one got a second promotion)
Individual dishes were cleaned up, maybe 25% of the time.
Times house was autonomously cleaned: 2 (both cleanings were not thorough, cleaning only 50% of dishes)
Skills learned autonomously: Charisma (3), Video Games (4), Comedy (4), Logic (4), Mischief (2), Cooking (5), Gourmet Cooking (1)
Of the skills learned autonomously, most only earned just one point. Exception: Cooking, out of necessity.
Four Sims earned Cooking 2. One Sims earned Cooking 3. Three Sims earned Videogaming 2.
One Sim earned Logic 1. One Sim earned Writing 1. One Sim earned Mischief 1.
Items used autonomously: Radios, TVs, computers, chess table, bookshelf (but only for fluff books, not skill books)
I'm glad I did the tests. I have a better understanding of what Sims probably will and won't do autonomously. I just wish I felt better about what I've learned. Basically, I've confirmed that Sims aren't very smart (my opinion) and require a lot of hand-holding. They can't be trusted to attend to their very basic personal needs. Not to my satisfaction. Bummer.
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Edited for formatting
No one worked on their primary skill after I stopped forcing them. Apparently "training" them didn't really help.
For the most part, they all chose to be Uncomfortable rather than cleaning dishes.
For the most part, most of them chose to be Uncomfortable rather than being proactive about alleviating their situation.
I don't know if it's lag or something else, but many of them stood in the entryway for at least an hour after returning from work.
I don't know if it's lag, but many of them stood in the kitchen, staring at the refrigerator doing nothing rather than cooking.
Charisma and Comedy were picked up autonomously but only via conversation, never by using microphone or mirror interactions.
Autonomous Cooking was picked up only by cooking,not by watching TV.
[...]
I wonder why they stood outside for an hour after coming back from work? Were you playing at normal speed or fast forward? If it is a lag, it's usually when you play at Speed 2 or 3.
Cuz it doesn't happen in my game. My sims almost immediately appear on the lot and take 1 min to think and run towards the house but I play at normal speed.
Did you also see why they didn't clean the dishes? Like, they just finish eating and then do what? Most of my sims usually clean the dishes unless they decided halfway that they wanted to watch TV. LOL.
Interesting to see your the way your sims act being very different from mine. Maybe my sims just had more training. Hehe. I've been playing them since the release of the game.
Comments
______________________________________________________________________
Anyway, here's what I'm thinking about for my next go round.
The Moderate House:
It has been built. I gave myself a budget of 150,000. (For comparison, the Budget House was done on 34,000 and the Experimental House was done on about 300,000). I spent it down to about 15k, which should be enough for cooking and painting expenses. The house is comfortable. One floor. 4 bedrooms (all with moderate beds), 4.5 bathrooms (4 good showers). Nicely appointed kitchen with moderate appliances. There is no formal dining room set, just an oblong counter with barstools all around. It is not attached to any wall -- it floats in the kitchen. This way, we can test the theory of whether Sims avoid islands.
There are adequate opportunities to build skills (instruments, easels, computers, chess table, kitchen, gym).
Every room and/or area has enough decor to provide a minimum 7-10 Environmental score. This is probably closer to what most players' Sim homes have and should help counteract negative vibes. The other two houses had very little in the way of environmental boosters. I will also have also placed Happy plumbob lamps in key areas (living room, kitchen, music room, workroom, computer area).
There are two fireplaces. For the record, there were no fireplaces in the other two homes. Note to self: make sure to put alarms and sprinklers on each fireplace. Done.
The Crew:
I'm going with the same crew as the last two tests but with some tweaks. These kids have been real troopers -- I should give them a raise! (Nah...
So, for example, Brooke, my painter, will have Creative, Art Lover and Perfectionist. She will join the Painting Career and, of course, I'll make sure she's leveled up to 5 in Painting. Each Sim will follow suit. For those who don't have 3 specific job-related traits, I will give Cheerful (which boosts Happy, which boosts all the other moods) or Neat. There will be at least 3 Neat Sims. As in the other tests, there will be no anti-social or counterproductive traits.
As for other skills, I'm again using only skills that can be done inside the house and that don't require a lot of hand-holding (so, no Gardening). No Herbalism, Fishing, Rocket Science, etc. Every Sim will get a headstart in 4 skills, taken from the following list: Video Gaming, Programming, Cooking, Mixology, Writing, Fitness, Handiness. I will not start them on Comedy or Charisma because those are easily picked up simply by Sims chatting at one another. I will be ready to officially start the test (again, I'm doing one full week) once every Sim has a minimum of 1 primary skill and 4 secondary skills.
I will not worry about fulfilling Daily Requirements, since it seems they will not do that on their own. Nor will I worry about them getting into the proper mood for work. Again, that's something that seems like it needs to be player directed, and that's ok. I'm not going to worry about Whims, either. Whims are almost definitely a player-driven exercise (except for accidental social whims).
As for Repairs, I will Replace broken objects. It's fairly obvious to me that Sims won't bother repairing on their own. However, I am including a workbench, in case anyone wants to level Handiness that way. I will add to the budget as needed to replace broken things.
Other notes:
To reiterate, I am running NO CC, no mods and nothing from the Gallery. There is nothing from the outside that can influence how the Crew operates.
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Whew! I think that about covers it! Off I go to start skilling. Wish me luck! Suggestions?
Edited to correct budget and environmental score numbers
____________________________
File has begun. I got to 10:30am Sunday before RL called me away. Each Sim has secured a job and each has begun work on his/her Primary Skill. Additionally, I'm delighted to report that 5 of them spontaneously started skills unrelated to their Primary Skill, Aspiration or Career! Granted, they were Social skills (Comedy, Charisma) or purely fun (Chess, video games), but it's a start! At least they're trying to be industrious. Maybe they overheard me talking about raises...
Interesting fact: Bladder Failure in Experimental House = Randall. Bladder Failure in Budget House = Angie. TWICE. Budget Failure in Moderate House = Randall. AGAIN.
Methinks Randall may have an issue...
You should watch his every move if you can. What I did was watch my sims but I only had three. They spend most of their time watching each other play the guitar or violin. LOL.
At this writing, I'm about one sim-week into this test. I've had two more accidents. This time, it was Savannah. TWICE. And all the toilets are functioning, so that's not it. She just wasn't attending to her personal needs
Anyway, I think things are fairly well set up. It is early Sim-Saturday morning. Every Sim has level 5 in their primary skill and at least 1 point in 4 other skills. Some have 5 or 6 skills started! I'm going to take the rest of Sim-Saturday to player-direct them such everyone is in good spirits by Sim-Sunday 8am. Then, we're off to the races
Oh, no. I don't mean to micro-manage them but just follow them around and watch what they do. So maybe you can find out the reason why they have bladder failures or feel uncomfortable, etc.
I took Week One (Sunday, 8am through Sunday 7:59am) to get all the Sims set up. Each has a primary skill (level 5) which relates to his/her job and at least one trait. Additionally, each has at least 4 other skills at level 1. I then cheated to make everyone's needs all green, so we'd start with a clean slate. They were all in great moods, either Happy, Inspired or Confident. No one had a negative mood. Additionally, I, personally, cleaned the entire house and replaced any broken items (I had been doing that throughout the week, anyway) and put additional skill books in the bookshelf. I made sure Phoenix, my guitarist, had a guitar in his backpack for easy access.
Sunday, 8am Week Two, I set them off on their own. It is now Tuesday, 11-something pm.
Sadly, I think Phoenix may be broken. While the others are (semi) taking care of themselves, Phoenix is stuck. His needs fell to nearly 100% red in every category, yet he wouldn't move. He stood in one spot, whining and crying until he collapsed in a heap. I tried giving him direction (which breaks the "hands off' rule, but whatever). He did the actions, then went back to being stuck. I did a "reset Sim" twice, which helped for about 10 seconds, then he went back to being stuck. I made him sleep in a bed, which he did, then he went back to being stuck. I've now exited back to desktop. If THAT doesn't fix him, I'm afraid we'll just have to discount Phoenix's contributions to the test. I'm sure his Uncomfortable will be off the chart. Phoenix's results will negatively skew the experiment.
So, while I appreciate his efforts, I think we'll have to let Phoenix have a pass for testing purposes.
Of course, I feel I shouldn't have to train adults (or even teens) to attend to their personal needs. There's no excuse for falling asleep in a heap on the floor when there's a perfectly good, unoccupied bed virtually steps away. It's the needs inattention that disappoints me moreso than autonomous skill building (or lack thereof).
New observation: My sim went to continue cooking an unfinished dish! Cooking is her passion.
Problems: I've taught them their beds and they really should know them, but at one point they started picking the wrong bed. I don't know if it's because they get mixed up from having woohoo in their bed or if it's because I don't remember who sleeps on what side of the bed so it varies... They picked wrong even when their bed was empty.
Bugs?: they wanted to kiss and ran behind the house to do it... okay. I suspect my other family did the same thing yesterday.
Updated with Werewolf Diaries (1)
I normally micro-manage my sims but im sooo gonna try this and see how long it takes my sim to kill herself , lol
I've played Sims 2 for years and picked up Sims 4 because it seemed like it was going to be a lot like Sims 2. In both games I've found that it helps to let them make some dumb mistakes, for a few days. Otherwise they'll be turning to me for help every time they have to use the toilet. And what I mostly want to do is watch my sims do their own things, not micromanage them.
I also have weebl_101's autonomous interactions mod installed. It enables them to do more things autonomously. FYI, for me, sims from TS1-TS4 are a lot more entertaining if you take away the television, no matter now many times they whine about not having a "household necessity". I haven't played much at all without this mod installed, so I can't say much about the unmodded game. But with it installed, especially if you also install weebl_101's Faster Sim autonomy, they can take care of themselves pretty well--if I don't "help" them every time they make a mistake. I've found they are making repairs, even. But I have the full package installed, which means they can also autonomously propose, try for baby, and get divorced without my interference. And yes, I've seen them do all those things, but there's a less extreme version where you retain control those three interactions. If you don't want them to have that much freedom, they are still able to care for thenselves better with Faster Autonomy. All it does is shorten the delay between actions while they decide what to do next. This is weebl_101's page
http://www.modthesims.info/member.php?u=7902302
I forgot--I also have "no autonomous phone interactions" and "no selfies" installed, because I play a historical game and I don't want to watch them keep playing on their little gadgets. I think that taking away their electronics helps keep them focused on essentials. :P
That said, I think I figured out what was bugging Phoenix (yay!!!). More on that at the end of this post.
@Simmese, I tend to micro-manage, too. Thing is, I want to micro-manage the fun stuff, not the basics: "Go pee, now. Eat a sandwich, now". I want/need them to take some initiate to manage their own survival needs. Heck, I don't even like it when they break the fourth wall to *alert* me that they need to go potty. You're an adult -- quit the histrionics and just go, dang it (and not in your pants, thank you)!
@professorlilith, as I've said, I personally don't use mods, but I thank you wholeheartedly for suggesting those! For folks who DO use mods, I'm sure they are a great addition to the game. Thanks for providing the link and recommendations!
Now, as for Phoenix, as I said, I think I figured out what was bugging him (figuratively and literally). Another Sim (Kenji) seemed to have caught Phoenix's bug (grrr) and began ignoring all his needs. In an attempt to determine the problem, I fully examined both guys (oh, get your minds out of the gutter
I wish I could report better results, but sadly, I can't. Overall, based on the three tests, I can say without reservation that I'm disappointed in the way autonomy and Sim AI works in Sims 4. I can't compare it to Sims 3 autonomy because I haven't tested that. But overall, I feel things in TS4 could have (and perhaps should have) been better.
Anyway, here are some stats about Test 3
Moderate House:
Mid-range appliances, 1 floor, no basement. No dining room set -- kitchen boasts an oval shaped island with barstools all around. 5 toilets, 4 showers, chess, 2 easels, 1 guitar, 2 large wall TVs, 2 excellent stereo systems, 2 top-line computers, piano, violin, microphone, workbench, skill books added to bookshelf. 8 comfortable beds and numerous sofas. Every room/area had enough decor to score at least 7-10 Environmental.
How Test 3 was conducted:
Test ran 2 weeks. During Week One, I semi-micro-managed the Sims. Each secured a job which corresponded to his/her traits. Each also worked diligently to skill one skill level to 5. That "primary" skill corresponded directly to the Sim's career and at least one trait. In other words, each Sim had a lot of training and practice at doing something. In theory, this should have ensured that they were good at something and thus more likely to do it autonomously.
At the end of Week One, I cheated every Sim to ensure all needs were back to 100%. Additionally, I personally cleaned the entire house, making sure there were no dirty dishes and no dirty or broken things. This was to ensure they all started in good moods and there was nothing in the house to negatively impact those good moods.
During Week Two, the Sims were left to their own devices.
Results for two weeks in the Moderate House:
- Bladder Failures: 5 (4 different Sims)
- Passed Out: 33 (Phoenix accounted for 20 of them)
- Happy: 605
- Tense: 168 (interestingly, the Crew scored 169 in ONE week in the Budget House)
- Uncomfortable: 1374 (THIS is what I'm most disappointed in)
- Missed Work: 1
- Promotions Earned: 8 (every Sim got one promotion, no one got a second promotion)
- Individual dishes were cleaned up, maybe 25% of the time.
- Times house was autonomously cleaned: 2 (both cleanings were not thorough, cleaning only 50% of dishes)
- Skills learned autonomously: Charisma (3), Video Games (4), Comedy (4), Logic (4), Mischief (2), Cooking (5), Gourmet Cooking (1)
- Of the skills learned autonomously, most only earned just one point. Exception: Cooking, out of necessity.
- Four Sims earned Cooking 2. One Sims earned Cooking 3. Three Sims earned Videogaming 2.
- One Sim earned Logic 1. One Sim earned Writing 1. One Sim earned Mischief 1.
- Items used autonomously: Radios, TVs, computers, chess table, bookshelf (but only for fluff books, not skill books)
- Items completely ignored: guitar, easels, piano, violin, workbench, fitness equipment, bar, microphone, skill books
Disappointing observations:- No one worked on their primary skill after I stopped forcing them. Apparently "training" them didn't really help.
- For the most part, they all chose to be Uncomfortable rather than cleaning dishes.
- For the most part, most of them chose to be Uncomfortable rather than being proactive about alleviating their situation.
- I don't know if it's lag or something else, but many of them stood in the entryway for at least an hour after returning from work.
- I don't know if it's lag, but many of them stood in the kitchen, staring at the refrigerator doing nothing rather than cooking.
- Charisma and Comedy were picked up autonomously but only via conversation, never by using microphone or mirror interactions.
- Autonomous Cooking was picked up only by cooking,not by watching TV.
Interesting things that happened:- Stove caught fire, but didn't burn up. Burned for 12 sim-hours before I finally replaced it. And nobody got hurt!
- Someone decided it would be fun to have dinner in the bathroom, so 4 others joined him. Ewww.
- A few folks made the occasional group meal, without any direction from me.
- Kenji took a long bath one evening but came out of the tub as dirty as he went in.
__________________________________________________I'm glad I did the tests. I have a better understanding of what Sims probably will and won't do autonomously. I just wish I felt better about what I've learned. Basically, I've confirmed that Sims aren't very smart (my opinion) and require a lot of hand-holding. They can't be trusted to attend to their very basic personal needs. Not to my satisfaction. Bummer.
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Edited for formatting
I wonder why they stood outside for an hour after coming back from work? Were you playing at normal speed or fast forward? If it is a lag, it's usually when you play at Speed 2 or 3.
Cuz it doesn't happen in my game. My sims almost immediately appear on the lot and take 1 min to think and run towards the house but I play at normal speed.
Did you also see why they didn't clean the dishes? Like, they just finish eating and then do what? Most of my sims usually clean the dishes unless they decided halfway that they wanted to watch TV. LOL.
Interesting to see your the way your sims act being very different from mine. Maybe my sims just had more training. Hehe. I've been playing them since the release of the game.