I completely micro manage all of my sims though, so I don't run into a lot of these issues on a regular basis. But the one other thing that has REALLY bugged me is when they take naps when they're tired instead of just sleeping. I don't understand the point of that
That used to annoy me, but it's actually pretty good system. If it's daytime they'll take a nap, if it's nigttime they'll sleep. If you let the autonomy handle them long enough they will all start following the same sleeping rhythm. I don't know if some jobs mess it up, I only had school kids who needed to go somewhere. So after the school kids sometimes took a short nap and then they were tired again when it was bedtime.
I'm curious now. Well, more curious than I was before. Reading this thread has opened some interesting questions for me. I think I'll set up a game with a multi-Sim household where I control no one. I'll ensure that every Sim has at least one point in multiple skills, they all have outside jobs and that there are enough things to do in the house. Bookshelves, computers, bathrooms, kitchen(s), instruments, easels, and on and on. Then, I'll just set it and forget it. Let them run all day (or maybe all night), then come back and see how they've managed.
@Cinebar and @Neia, the way I understand it, mods do alter the way the game plays. Whether they *change* programming or simply *tune* behaviors, I don't know, since I don't use them and never have. And I doubt I ever will. Not my style. That said, even a mod like Door Locks would, in some way, modify behavior, since Sims would no longer be able to access parts of the household.
Well the difference is that people using tuning mods don't have a completely different autonomy AI than you, it's just a little tweaked.
I'm not using any autonomy mod and I'm quite satisfied with the way it works. I'm playing large families and often let some of the family members autonomous, I can count on one hand the number of toilet incidents in hundreds of hours of gameplay. I don't know if there's something different in my houses that could explain it.
Those tweaks make their gameplay or the Sim behave as they would want them to behave like go pee when in the red instead of eat even though just in the yellow. The do make a difference or no need to have them wouldn't you agree? that is the point. The game needed tweaking, whether that is a huge thing or a small thing it is enough to annoy those of us who don't use them and therefore makes the game not make sense to us. As modders look at the code and fine tune it to work more appropriately where players would like 'things improved' where the developers have failed to make it work out as it should. Like go pee instead of eat etc.
ETA: try it with eight Sims and one bathroom or just two. I would like you to count how many times they do get in the red but may not have an accident with the cheapest objects, please no improvement or upgrades then you might see what people are saying. Not all people put one Sim in a rich house and then say I have no problems. Of course not, but the more a clumsy Sim uses that toilet the more it breaks etc. try all the traits and aspirations for all eight Sims in a regular home with the basic stuff. And then tell me you can count it. ETA: eight YA or Adults, no kids and not touching the mouse to micro manage.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I'm curious now. Well, more curious than I was before. Reading this thread has opened some interesting questions for me. I think I'll set up a game with a multi-Sim household where I control no one. I'll ensure that every Sim has at least one point in multiple skills, they all have outside jobs and that there are enough things to do in the house. Bookshelves, computers, bathrooms, kitchen(s), instruments, easels, and on and on. Then, I'll just set it and forget it. Let them run all day (or maybe all night), then come back and see how they've managed.
I'm curious now. Well, more curious than I was before. Reading this thread has opened some interesting questions for me. I think I'll set up a game with a multi-Sim household where I control no one. I'll ensure that every Sim has at least one point in multiple skills, they all have outside jobs and that there are enough things to do in the house. Bookshelves, computers, bathrooms, kitchen(s), instruments, easels, and on and on. Then, I'll just set it and forget it. Let them run all day (or maybe all night), then come back and see how they've managed.
Have any of you tried such an experiment?
I had a household of 7 adults and 1 teen. I got them jobs and pointed them to a bed the first night. After that, I let them go for about a Sim week. They kept to their own beds. The teen did her homework autonomously. No one was big on cooking group meals; they mostly cooked single servings. I did take away the TV after about a day and half, though, because if there was a TV, that was ALL they wanted to do.
ETA: I did replace anything that broke. They would sometimes clean autonomously, according to their traits, but they do not repair autonomously.
wow good topic, really the "smart sims" and autonomous is something which i aways really don't understood, afar i know we have a option where we can choose the "level" of autonomous right?, this is supposed to be to peoples which different tastes, i would prefer watch my sims doing things alone than keep bossing around, i only boss when i feel i need to something special, or want some more "love" or things like that, but overal i prefer to see what they can do, then for me the current AI is very poor, for my play game, even when we put the autonomous at max, that is when comes for me which many peoples can love to full control while others to watch, then if you prefer full control you can just "disable" the autonomous or tuning it in a level where you feel fine.
with that in mind for me set the AI to max was supposed to make the sims "play by themselfs alone then you can use the option to set how much of that you want and not be limited just because not everyone want they sims play alone, if you don't want then just set the level of autonomous you want, a max autonomous being perfect play alone and a 0 being they just starting and doing nothing like the things are.
with that i never understood the excuse of don't want have smart sims if we have the option to tune it.
Yes, I tried it with eight Sims when I first got this game. One stood in the kitchen all the time (neat Sim) doing nothing all day long. Wouldn't move. Two others stayed on the computers trolling the forums non stop, fun full. One other danced to the stereo all day. No matter how many times I cancelled it that is all he did. Two females went around talking to everyone all the time, playing musical chairs non stop. The commodes (just two) all broke non stop. I did make one learn to cook and he would fix group meals but rarely on his own. They did nothing but drink juice or milk and get fat. They all would get in group talks for hours with social full and do nothing else even while at the pcs they were in group talks or while dancing. It drove me batty. lol
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Yes, I tried it with eight Sims when I first got this game. One stood in the kitchen all the time (neat Sim) doing nothing all day long. Wouldn't move. Two others stayed on the computers trolling the forums non stop, fun full. One other danced to the stereo all day. No matter how many times I cancelled it that is all he did. Two females went around talking to everyone all the time, playing musical chairs non stop. The commodes (just two) all broke non stop. I did make one learn to cook and he would fix group meals but rarely on his own. They did nothing but drink juice or milk and get fat. They all would get in group talks for hours with social full and do nothing else even while at the pcs they were in group talks or while dancing. It drove me batty. lol
yeah that is so bad for me because i put the "giant telescope for my astronaut sims in home some of then died inside it because they don't leave it for nothing, others also died playing games at pc at nonstop and many otherw weird things.
another things which anger me in sims serie(not just sims 4) but is when they do things like paint, write books and that things which need time to do, if they don't autonomos finish it in the same action they started they just "forget about it" the same for food, if the sims start to cook and for some reason they need to stop it then go back they just go look for new food to make they don't try to finish the old cook this is more worse in sims 4, because of emotions keep making then swing too fast in moods and autonomous in sims 3 this is more rare for then to stop something and forget about it.
that is something annoying and is when come the "bird memory", if they do something which can't be finished in one action if they need to stop that action then they just "forget about it" and do a new action instead of keep doing the old one, this is really annoying when you see your sims stack weasell with unfinished paints or the counters full of unfinished food, why the dev can't make then "remember what they where doing and finish it before start a new one?
@Cinebar and @Neia, the way I understand it, mods do alter the way the game plays. Whether they *change* programming or simply *tune* behaviors, I don't know, since I don't use them and never have. And I doubt I ever will. Not my style. That said, even a mod like Door Locks would, in some way, modify behavior, since Sims would no longer be able to access parts of the household.
Well the difference is that people using tuning mods don't have a completely different autonomy AI than you, it's just a little tweaked.
I'm not using any autonomy mod and I'm quite satisfied with the way it works. I'm playing large families and often let some of the family members autonomous, I can count on one hand the number of toilet incidents in hundreds of hours of gameplay. I don't know if there's something different in my houses that could explain it.
Those tweaks make their gameplay or the Sim behave as they would want them to behave like go pee when in the red instead of eat even though just in the yellow. The do make a difference or no need to have them wouldn't you agree? that is the point. The game needed tweaking, whether that is a huge thing or a small thing it is enough to annoy those of us who don't use them and therefore makes the game not make sense to us. As modders look at the code and fine tune it to work more appropriately where players would like 'things improved' where the developers have failed to make it work out as it should. Like go pee instead of eat etc.
ETA: try it with eight Sims and one bathroom or just two. I would like you to count how many times they do get in the red but may not have an accident with the cheapest objects, please no improvement or upgrades then you might see what people are saying. Not all people put one Sim in a rich house and then say I have no problems. Of course not, but the more a clumsy Sim uses that toilet the more it breaks etc. try all the traits and aspirations for all eight Sims in a regular home with the basic stuff. And then tell me you can count it. ETA: eight YA or Adults, no kids and not touching the mouse to micro manage.
It think it's a matter of preference, it's not as universal as you seem to think. I don't use autonomy mods and I'm fine with them choosing eat over pee. I've been playing a family of five with one bathroom and a family of seven with two bathrooms, and I've been fine. The only times I had problem were at the beginning when pee decay was not slower when sleeping (but it has been patched in the meantime) and when loading the family around 5 am (and the problem is not autonomy in this case).
But I don't see, in this extreme 8 Sims/1 bathroom case, where the problem is exactly ? I mean, in real life too, if you are 8 adults in a house with 1 bathroom, you sure will micromanage the bathroom. Are you expecting each Sims to take into consideration what the others Sims might do in the future ? Or go to the bathroom as often as possible just in case ?
Eat trumps pee bugs me, I gotta say. If they delay eating for another 2 minutes, no big deal. If they delay peeing for another 2 minutes, disaster ensues. Some people may find that funny or even endearing. I just find it plum annoying .
However, since I don't use mods, I have no choice but to accept it because apparently that's the way the game has decided to prioritize needs. My wish would be that the devs "fix" the needs rankings ("fix" = make it the way I want it haha).
I had one who did nothing but run the the home bar and mix herself drinks. All. Day. Long. On the positive side, she max'd the Achievement for 100 Drinks in virtually no time .
I had another who spent virtually all her time in the home gym. The muscle-bound brute look didn't suit her at all.
I wish they would y'know, paint paintings or write bestsellers or fulfill their work/school requirements.
I think the mixing drinks is a bug. If I don't cancel the action queued up myself, my Sim would be mixing drinks all day long too. I totally agree with you though. I wish they'd write books or do something that will bring some money into the household if they're not going to do what I tell them to do.
@SimPoseyYum: I can't confirm that they won't autonomously repair broken items. Most of my sims have reached level 10 handiness and they don't seem to repair the broken stuff by themselves but it could be cuz they have other toilets or sinks to use or just have other better things to do. LOL. Kinda reminds me of real life. Just trying to avoiding doing work. Hahaa. They are smart, aren't they? XD
I vaguely remember seeing a list of actions a Sim won't do autonomously for Sims 3 but I haven't seen one for Sims 4. But given my experience, I'm willing to bet Repair is on the list.
I started working on the Experimental house. It has a long way to go. I'm going to try to include mostly upscale versions (better toilets, high-end appliances), because those solve moods better than the cheap versions. Some of the expensive things are so ugly, though, that I'm going to have to settle for the lesser versions. After all, they only have to live on it -- I have to LOOK at it!
I realized, too, that I can't let them go 100% on their own. I assume I'll be required to direct one of them to pay the bills. And oooo those bills are going to be sky-high. This house is gonna be a beast!
> @SimPoseyYum said: > Eat trumps pee bugs me, I gotta say. If they delay eating for another 2 minutes, no big deal. If they delay peeing for another 2 minutes, disaster ensues. Some people may find that funny or even endearing. I just find it plum annoying :). > > However, since I don't use mods, I have no choice but to accept it because apparently that's the way the game has decided to prioritize needs. My wish would be that the devs "fix" the needs rankings ("fix" = make it the way I want it haha).
It is my understanding that is on purpose. That the sims are smart enough generally not to die too easily, but not too smart, as to engage the player. It could be frustrated for many if, when you played a sim, you were always doing a worse job than just leaving the sim alone.
Huh. My sims make it a priority to pee over eat. I've seen it happen plenty the last couple of days in my game. I loaded one couple last night and they were both hungry and had to go. Pee was in the red and hunger was in the low yellow. They both made a beeline for the one bathroom and I had to get the guy to wait because he wasn't as dire as the girl.
And tonight, just a few minutes ago, I loaded a different couple and they both had the same issue. The guy went straight for the closest bathroom and beat his wife so she cued up the upstairs bathroom as soon as she couldn't use the main one and off she went to the loo. After he was done he went for a slice of hamburger cake in the fridge.
Then they moved house, and they were both yellow tired so the first thing they did in the new house was both head to bed for a nap. I guess they figured a quick one wouldn't hurt after they got the bedroom set up. lol
> @SimPoseyYum said:
> Eat trumps pee bugs me, I gotta say. If they delay eating for another 2 minutes, no big deal. If they delay peeing for another 2 minutes, disaster ensues. Some people may find that funny or even endearing. I just find it plum annoying .
>
> However, since I don't use mods, I have no choice but to accept it because apparently that's the way the game has decided to prioritize needs. My wish would be that the devs "fix" the needs rankings ("fix" = make it the way I want it haha).
It is my understanding that is on purpose. That the sims are smart enough generally not to die too easily, but not too smart, as to engage the player. It could be frustrated for many if, when you played a sim, you were always doing a worse job than just leaving the sim alone.
but for that is why we have a option to choose the elvel of AI, that was supposed for peoples which want a better or smart sims or peoples which want brainless and boss everything, don't make sense they give a option where you can set the level of ai but still means almost not when come to really have "smart".
From what I have seen a sim do in a situation like this. They would do what it is that would make them fill their lowest motive first. If they need to go to the bathroom because their bladder motive is the lowest. Then they'll do that first, and then they'll go on to the next lowest motive. The sims have been doing this since the first sims game. Which is why I didn't like The Sims in the beginning when I had played my first Sims game. Every time that I sent my sim to go do this in the game, he would go do something else instead. Sims 2 was the big turn around for me because the sims had become much easier to control in Sims 2.
> @Ellessarr said: > Kristoff Bjorgman wrote: » > > > > but for that is why we have a option to choose the elvel of AI, that was supposed for peoples which want a better or smart sims or peoples which want brainless and boss everything, don't make sense they give a option where you can set the level of ai but still means almost not when come to really have "smart".
> @Ellessarr said:
> Kristoff Bjorgman wrote: »
>
>
>
> but for that is why we have a option to choose the elvel of AI, that was supposed for peoples which want a better or smart sims or peoples which want brainless and boss everything, don't make sense they give a option where you can set the level of ai but still means almost not when come to really have "smart".
We actually do not.
then is a problem in your game because in the option you have a option to tone down the AI to disable or set the level of autonomous.
if we have a option to choose the level of autonomous then this means which they give from the worst to the best.
> @Ellessarr said: > Kristoff Bjorgman wrote: » > > > > then is a problem in your game because in the option you have a option to tone down the AI to disable or set the level of autonomous. > > if we have a option to choose the level of autonomous then this means which they give from the worst to the best.
There are no levels there. You don't seem to actually have read the options. It's full or none.
Did a lot of work on the Experimental House only to have the game crash. I violated my own rule ("save, save, save, then save again, just to be sure"), so it's going to be a while yet before I can experiment .
Did a lot of work on the Experimental House only to have the game crash. I violated my own rule ("save, save, save, then save again, just to be sure"), so it's going to be a while yet before I can experiment .
Okay keep us updated. How many sims do you have in that household again?
Did a lot of work on the Experimental House only to have the game crash. I violated my own rule ("save, save, save, then save again, just to be sure"), so it's going to be a while yet before I can experiment .
Okay keep us updated. How many sims do you have in that household again?
Comments
Updated with Werewolf Diaries (1)
Have any of you tried such an experiment?
Those tweaks make their gameplay or the Sim behave as they would want them to behave like go pee when in the red instead of eat even though just in the yellow. The do make a difference or no need to have them wouldn't you agree? that is the point. The game needed tweaking, whether that is a huge thing or a small thing it is enough to annoy those of us who don't use them and therefore makes the game not make sense to us. As modders look at the code and fine tune it to work more appropriately where players would like 'things improved' where the developers have failed to make it work out as it should. Like go pee instead of eat etc.
ETA: try it with eight Sims and one bathroom or just two. I would like you to count how many times they do get in the red but may not have an accident with the cheapest objects, please no improvement or upgrades then you might see what people are saying. Not all people put one Sim in a rich house and then say I have no problems. Of course not, but the more a clumsy Sim uses that toilet the more it breaks etc. try all the traits and aspirations for all eight Sims in a regular home with the basic stuff. And then tell me you can count it. ETA: eight YA or Adults, no kids and not touching the mouse to micro manage.
Updated with Werewolf Diaries (1)
I had a household of 7 adults and 1 teen. I got them jobs and pointed them to a bed the first night. After that, I let them go for about a Sim week. They kept to their own beds. The teen did her homework autonomously. No one was big on cooking group meals; they mostly cooked single servings. I did take away the TV after about a day and half, though, because if there was a TV, that was ALL they wanted to do.
ETA: I did replace anything that broke. They would sometimes clean autonomously, according to their traits, but they do not repair autonomously.
with that in mind for me set the AI to max was supposed to make the sims "play by themselfs alone then you can use the option to set how much of that you want and not be limited just because not everyone want they sims play alone, if you don't want then just set the level of autonomous you want, a max autonomous being perfect play alone and a 0 being they just starting and doing nothing like the things are.
with that i never understood the excuse of don't want have smart sims if we have the option to tune it.
another things which anger me in sims serie(not just sims 4) but is when they do things like paint, write books and that things which need time to do, if they don't autonomos finish it in the same action they started they just "forget about it" the same for food, if the sims start to cook and for some reason they need to stop it then go back they just go look for new food to make they don't try to finish the old cook this is more worse in sims 4, because of emotions keep making then swing too fast in moods and autonomous in sims 3 this is more rare for then to stop something and forget about it.
that is something annoying and is when come the "bird memory", if they do something which can't be finished in one action if they need to stop that action then they just "forget about it" and do a new action instead of keep doing the old one, this is really annoying when you see your sims stack weasell with unfinished paints or the counters full of unfinished food, why the dev can't make then "remember what they where doing and finish it before start a new one?
It think it's a matter of preference, it's not as universal as you seem to think. I don't use autonomy mods and I'm fine with them choosing eat over pee. I've been playing a family of five with one bathroom and a family of seven with two bathrooms, and I've been fine. The only times I had problem were at the beginning when pee decay was not slower when sleeping (but it has been patched in the meantime) and when loading the family around 5 am (and the problem is not autonomy in this case).
But I don't see, in this extreme 8 Sims/1 bathroom case, where the problem is exactly ? I mean, in real life too, if you are 8 adults in a house with 1 bathroom, you sure will micromanage the bathroom. Are you expecting each Sims to take into consideration what the others Sims might do in the future ? Or go to the bathroom as often as possible just in case ?
However, since I don't use mods, I have no choice but to accept it because apparently that's the way the game has decided to prioritize needs. My wish would be that the devs "fix" the needs rankings ("fix" = make it the way I want it haha).
I think the mixing drinks is a bug. If I don't cancel the action queued up myself, my Sim would be mixing drinks all day long too. I totally agree with you though. I wish they'd write books or do something that will bring some money into the household if they're not going to do what I tell them to do.
I started working on the Experimental house. It has a long way to go. I'm going to try to include mostly upscale versions (better toilets, high-end appliances), because those solve moods better than the cheap versions. Some of the expensive things are so ugly, though, that I'm going to have to settle for the lesser versions. After all, they only have to live on it -- I have to LOOK at it!
I realized, too, that I can't let them go 100% on their own. I assume I'll be required to direct one of them to pay the bills. And oooo those bills are going to be sky-high. This house is gonna be a beast!
> Eat trumps pee bugs me, I gotta say. If they delay eating for another 2 minutes, no big deal. If they delay peeing for another 2 minutes, disaster ensues. Some people may find that funny or even endearing. I just find it plum annoying :).
>
> However, since I don't use mods, I have no choice but to accept it because apparently that's the way the game has decided to prioritize needs. My wish would be that the devs "fix" the needs rankings ("fix" = make it the way I want it haha).
It is my understanding that is on purpose. That the sims are smart enough generally not to die too easily, but not too smart, as to engage the player. It could be frustrated for many if, when you played a sim, you were always doing a worse job than just leaving the sim alone.
And tonight, just a few minutes ago, I loaded a different couple and they both had the same issue. The guy went straight for the closest bathroom and beat his wife so she cued up the upstairs bathroom as soon as she couldn't use the main one and off she went to the loo. After he was done he went for a slice of hamburger cake in the fridge.
Then they moved house, and they were both yellow tired so the first thing they did in the new house was both head to bed for a nap. I guess they figured a quick one wouldn't hurt after they got the bedroom set up. lol
> Kristoff Bjorgman wrote: »
>
>
>
> but for that is why we have a option to choose the elvel of AI, that was supposed for peoples which want a better or smart sims or peoples which want brainless and boss everything, don't make sense they give a option where you can set the level of ai but still means almost not when come to really have "smart".
We actually do not.
if we have a option to choose the level of autonomous then this means which they give from the worst to the best.
> Kristoff Bjorgman wrote: »
>
>
>
> then is a problem in your game because in the option you have a option to tone down the AI to disable or set the level of autonomous.
>
> if we have a option to choose the level of autonomous then this means which they give from the worst to the best.
There are no levels there. You don't seem to actually have read the options. It's full or none.
Did a lot of work on the Experimental House only to have the game crash. I violated my own rule ("save, save, save, then save again, just to be sure"), so it's going to be a while yet before I can experiment
Okay keep us updated. How many sims do you have in that household again?