JULY 19 - It's Patch Day for The Sims 4 on Console! Patch notes here.
Friday Highlights for July 13th are here! Head over here to check them out!
JULY 10 - It's Patch Day for The Sims 4 on PC/MAC Patch notes here.

Simulation Tech Talk

Comments

  • MinnieMouseMinnieMouse Posts: 262 Member
    IngeJones wrote: »
    Yes but that doesn't explain it technically.
    True. Obviously I'm not a guru. Just trying to help where I can. It's probably like everything else... a matter of time and priorities (i.e. it technically could be done given enough time and effort, but they chose to focus on other aspects of the EP).

    Also, I do think Daniel's tweets have a good point, even if it's not explicitly stated. If we could build our own apartments, they would have to think about changing the build mode restrictions. They would have to address questions like how many levels should be supported? Will build mode allow that many levels for every lot type, or only apartments? Could PCs on the lower end of the system requirements handle all the extra levels? And if they didn't change the build mode restrictions at all, I honestly think we would see the same level of lashback (and possible more). Apartments with only 3 levels? :( It's really a no-win situation for them.

    Not saying I'm happy that we can't build our own (like I said, I would love that, and I'm sad that we can't), but I do understand that choosing not add this functionality probably solves a lot of concerns and potential issues.

    Or maybe I'm wrong, and they are technically impossible for whatever reason, and Eugi can correct me there. I work in software development, so I see every day that most things are just a matter of time and priorites vs. deadlines. And as frustrating as that is, I guess I've just gotten used to it.
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,008 Member
    edited September 2016
    I am very much in favor of lightening the build restrictions. I know SGEugi explained that QA would not pass anything that led to clipping, but we already have largescale clipping in the animations and routing, like sims standing inside each other and inside kitchen counters, and there has been nowhere near the outcry over that which there is about the limitations. I really hope the producers can meet up again and talk about whether they can rethink where the line is drawn. Although that refers to a conversation about ceiling height and it's very different issues that concern building apartments.
  • MinnieMouseMinnieMouse Posts: 262 Member
    IngeJones wrote: »
    I am very much in favor of lightening the build restrictions. I know SGEugi explained that QA would not pass anything that led to clipping, but we already have largescale clipping in the animations and routing, like sims standing inside each other and inside kitchen counters, and there has been nowhere near the outcry over that which there is about the limitations. I really hope the producers can meet up again and talk about whether they can rethink where the line is drawn.
    Agreed. That would be fantastic. I'm just worried it won't happen because of the low system requirements. But we can hope. :)
  • NectereNectere Posts: 982 Member
    The thing I cant figure out is it doesnt appear that they are simply stacked on each other, in several clips they seem to be near each other but not necessarily on top of each other - so I am still trying to wrap my head around how each apartment is its own lot within this space unless its literally just a partitioned lot, but then you couldnt have anyone above or below. Is the whole building one lot and they are partitioned off and defined within that lot? (how would you set traits per apartment vs per lot or both?) Or is the box (the apartment) sitting in a defined coordinate space within the lot and thats why you cant change it because its locked to those coordinates? (thinking about all the scripting and 3D work we do in SL to define "space")

    I have never wanted to rip something apart and tinker with it more than I do right now.
    Mods should enhance my game, not fix it.
    Origin ID NectereSim
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,008 Member
    If those other lots on the same floor are actually inhabitable by playable sims, it could simply mean they decided to put the lots on the same y offset but not in the same x,z coords. I mean just the same as if they were on the ground like normal lots.
  • NectereNectere Posts: 982 Member
    Right, that would make more sense if they are only 4 max to a lot rather than vertical stacking the apartments.

    Have they given any indication if the 4 apartments are the only apartments or if they are the only playable apartments? Like, the building has 8 units but only 4 of them are unlocked for play kind of thing (so the others can be fully scripted and automated)
    Mods should enhance my game, not fix it.
    Origin ID NectereSim
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 29,621 Member
    Nectere wrote: »
    Right, that would make more sense if they are only 4 max to a lot rather than vertical stacking the apartments.

    Have they given any indication if the 4 apartments are the only apartments or if they are the only playable apartments? Like, the building has 8 units but only 4 of them are unlocked for play kind of thing (so the others can be fully scripted and automated)

    They've not given an indication on that, no. I've been assuming it's the case, though, unless we're getting a bigger population cap increase than we did with GT, and that just feels unlikely to me, much as I wish it wasn't.
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,008 Member
    Nectere wrote: »
    Right, that would make more sense if they are only 4 max to a lot rather than vertical stacking the apartments.

    But I don't think the shell is standing in a lot. I think it stands in public space, *is* public space and the apartments in it are like lots in a neighborhood,
  • NectereNectere Posts: 982 Member
    IngeJones wrote: »
    Nectere wrote: »
    Right, that would make more sense if they are only 4 max to a lot rather than vertical stacking the apartments.

    But I don't think the shell is standing in a lot. I think it stands in public space, *is* public space and the apartments in it are like lots in a neighborhood,

    Right, it'd might be no different than any of the other stuff we see in world, it just sitting over these units like a tent or w/e. Interesting stuff and I am looking forward to seeing how they put it all together. The shell being locked to a public space does make it a bit harder to unlock, tinker with and replace I guess, it depends on how they made it. Its the partitioning of the unit space...must see more! :smile:
    Mods should enhance my game, not fix it.
    Origin ID NectereSim
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    sunman502 wrote: »
    To any SimGuru, I was wondering if you guys thought of how big a single build grid tile was in the game. And if you guys have, can you share with us how big a single build grid tile is in meters or feet?

    A single tile is 1x1 meters.
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    @SimGuruEugi something I REALLY want to know is, why can we no longer change the color of an inhabited bassinet? It's a little annoying having to discover what baby gender is incoming beforehand (to buy the color we want), when we used to be able to change the color on the fly. I would like to have that back, please.

    With both gender twins+ I don't even bother. I bought a pink crib and a blue crib, and of COURSE, the boy ended up attached to the pink one and the girl to the blue one.

    Can this be fixed?

    edit: clarity

    We can look into it. The swatch tool from Build/Buy mode had to be disabled because, under the hood, it deletes and recreates the object. Babies can't be deleted, so that tool was causing issues. I'll relay your feedback.
  • NectereNectere Posts: 982 Member
    edited September 2016
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    @SimGuruEugi
    Are there only up to 4 playable units or are there other units within the same shell that are unplayable and purely scripted? (does that make sense? (8 units, 4 playable or some combo there of kind of thing)
    Are any of the units stacked vertically or they all on the same plane?
    Are penthouses on their own special lot/shell or can they be placed on top of apartment lots?
    Can the places where penthouses be placed be changed to any other type of lot? For instance a rooftop bar?
    Mods should enhance my game, not fix it.
    Origin ID NectereSim
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,008 Member
    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood.

    I was right /me congratulates self :D

  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    Nectere wrote: »
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    @SimGuruEugi
    Are there only up to 4 playable units or are there other units within the same shell that are unplayable and purely scripted? (does that make sense? (8 units, 4 playable or some combo there of kind of thing)
    Are any of the units stacked vertically or they all on the same plane?
    Are penthouses on their own special lot/shell or can they be placed on top of apartment lots?
    Can the places where penthouses be placed be changed to any other type of lot? For instance a rooftop bar?

    There are up to four apartments per building. All those apartments are playable. You can move in/move out of them, and they can be inhabited by NPCs. You can interact with your neighbors by knocking on their door and whatnot.

    For each apartment building, the playable space is one floor in that building. The elevator takes your Sims from street level to their floor.

    Penthouse are not a lot type. You can change the penthouse's venue type to any type, and it's really cool. The premade lots in San Myshuno are gorgeous. Can't wait for you guys to play with it. I didn't work on EP03 and when I saw the final world I was really impressed with what the team pulled off!
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,008 Member
    Penthouse are not a lot type. You can change the penthouse's venue type to any type

    Brilliant!!

  • NectereNectere Posts: 982 Member
    edited September 2016
    Nectere wrote: »
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    @SimGuruEugi
    Are there only up to 4 playable units or are there other units within the same shell that are unplayable and purely scripted? (does that make sense? (8 units, 4 playable or some combo there of kind of thing)
    Are any of the units stacked vertically or they all on the same plane?
    Are penthouses on their own special lot/shell or can they be placed on top of apartment lots?
    Can the places where penthouses be placed be changed to any other type of lot? For instance a rooftop bar?

    There are up to four apartments per building. All those apartments are playable. You can move in/move out of them, and they can be inhabited by NPCs. You can interact with your neighbors by knocking on their door and whatnot.

    For each apartment building, the playable space is one floor in that building. The elevator takes your Sims from street level to their floor.

    Penthouse are not a lot type. You can change the penthouse's venue type to any type, and it's really cool. The premade lots in San Myshuno are gorgeous. Can't wait for you guys to play with it. I didn't work on EP03 and when I saw the final world I was really impressed with what the team pulled off!

    SQUEEEEEE!

    Thank you for answering!
    @SimGuruEugi One more question pretty please - are the traits by apartment, by lot or both? I have seen it said traits can be applied to any lot but also to any apartment? So both right? A party apartment next to squalor? (cursed/filth etc)
    Mods should enhance my game, not fix it.
    Origin ID NectereSim
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,150 Member
    @SimGuruEugi
    Do you know if there's any changes planned to relationship culling and relationship decay ?
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    Nectere wrote: »
    Nectere wrote: »
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    @SimGuruEugi
    Are there only up to 4 playable units or are there other units within the same shell that are unplayable and purely scripted? (does that make sense? (8 units, 4 playable or some combo there of kind of thing)
    Are any of the units stacked vertically or they all on the same plane?
    Are penthouses on their own special lot/shell or can they be placed on top of apartment lots?
    Can the places where penthouses be placed be changed to any other type of lot? For instance a rooftop bar?

    There are up to four apartments per building. All those apartments are playable. You can move in/move out of them, and they can be inhabited by NPCs. You can interact with your neighbors by knocking on their door and whatnot.

    For each apartment building, the playable space is one floor in that building. The elevator takes your Sims from street level to their floor.

    Penthouse are not a lot type. You can change the penthouse's venue type to any type, and it's really cool. The premade lots in San Myshuno are gorgeous. Can't wait for you guys to play with it. I didn't work on EP03 and when I saw the final world I was really impressed with what the team pulled off!

    SQUEEEEEE!

    Thank you for answering!
    @SimGuruEugi One more question pretty please - are the traits by apartment, by lot or both? I have seen it said traits can be applied to any lot but also to any apartment? So both right? A party apartment next to squalor? (cursed/filth etc)

    It's per apartment!
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,150 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    @SimGuruEugi
    Do you know if there's any changes planned to relationship culling and relationship decay ?

    We're working on those quite a bit. However, I don't know the release schedule for that so I don't want to give you any incorrect information. But we're looking very carefully at all the player feedback we got.

    Thanks a lot, it's great to know it's still something you're working on :)
  • AineAine Posts: 1,871 Member
    @SimGuruEugi Were there any discussions on using the already existing tool for defining rooms in the game for making a apartment-making tool that would allow us to define which rooms would be which apartment on a lot? That would've allowed you to make buildable apartments on any lots without adding special doors or things like that.
    Also wouldn't it have been possible to simply expand the build tools to encompass the changes you want to make for the prebuilt apartment complexes? Also you could have added a third kind of apartment - one that simmers could build on any lot in any world.
    Allons-y!

    ---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
  • BeSimsBeSims Posts: 1 New Member
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    If they listen to the community, because they do not liberate the possibility from creating apartments, was what more he was wishing and what more has disappointed me, I have almost 6 lots with apartments from the announcement and I took a big disappointment with the second trailer. I feel my English belong to the community Simmer of Spain, he would be grateful to him very much if he could answer :(
  • richieassyrichieassy Posts: 2 New Member
    do you guys hire internationals? :3
Sign In or Register to comment.
Return to top