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Simulation Tech Talk

Comments

  • fuoco1999fuoco1999 Posts: 26 Member
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    In my opinion you should have kept both the San Myshuno apartments with their exclusive heights and shapes, and the apartments built from scratch by the players. You could have added a object/flag to define the apartments within the building and make them work like the San Myshun ones (with loads screen ect).

  • NectereNectere Posts: 1,002 Member
    edited September 2016
    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    @SimGuruEugi this is the part I think some of us are getting stuck on, why not both? So that in the new world we can have and experience the beautiful new world that the studio built and use the way the studio intended, but also have in other worlds the ability to create regular rentals using properly authored apartment doors to define the rental spaces within the b/b limitations of the rest of the world.

    Anyway very interesting stuff and I appreciate you taking the time to come in and answer these questions!
    Mods should enhance my game, not fix it.
    Origin ID NectereSim
  • fuoco1999fuoco1999 Posts: 26 Member
    *apartments built from scratch by the players with their limit of 4 floors.

    **with load screens
  • bythedreadwolfbythedreadwolf Posts: 831 Member
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    Any chance there will be cheats that will allow us to build apartments without the shells? Or are the shells pretty much "stuck" to the apartments, meaning you can't have one without the other? I don't know a thing about modding, but basically, do you think it's possible for the modders to work around that at all?

    And is there a technical reason why you couldn't at least allow us to use those shells and put them on the other worlds? I imagine not all shells will look like giant buildings, so they wouldn't look too out of place in, let's say, Newcrest?
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,230 Member
    edited September 2016
    And is there a technical reason why you couldn't at least allow us to use those shells and put them on the other worlds? I imagine not all shells will look like giant buildings, so they wouldn't look too out of place in, let's say, Newcrest?

    I think you'd only be able to place them as deco objects on a lot, and build inside them on the ground. I think lot height is dictated by data that belongs as part of the neighborhood.


  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    richieassy wrote: »
    do you guys hire internationals? :3

    Yeah, of course.
  • NectereNectere Posts: 1,002 Member
    There's a big difference between a "City Living" expansion pack and a "Make Apartment Buildings" expansion. We were going for the former.

    I appreciate this statement for the clarity of what it is. I remind myself each time that S4 is S4 and not S1/2/3 - but I still appreciate the bluntness of 'this is what our vision is/was for this' in plain speech, that in itself answers so many questions. :smile:

    Mods should enhance my game, not fix it.
    Origin ID NectereSim
  • bythedreadwolfbythedreadwolf Posts: 831 Member
    edited September 2016
    IngeJones wrote: »
    And is there a technical reason why you couldn't at least allow us to use those shells and put them on the other worlds? I imagine not all shells will look like giant buildings, so they wouldn't look too out of place in, let's say, Newcrest?

    I think you'd only be able to place them as deco objects on a lot, and build inside them on the ground. I think lot height is dictated by data that belongs as part of the neighborhood.


    But what makes an apartment an apartment? Not the shells then? So we could somehow make apartments without them, since they are just an object? In TS2 it was the apartments door and the lot type, right? In TS3 I think there were some markers, to mark common areas, neighbors' apartments, your apartment, that sort of thing. So how do they work in TS4, is what I want to know. @SimGuruEugi
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    @SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks! :)

    You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).

    If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.

    There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.

    We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.

    So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.

    I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.

    Any chance there will be cheats that will allow us to build apartments without the shells? Or are the shells pretty much "stuck" to the apartments, meaning you can't have one without the other? I don't know a thing about modding, but basically, do you think it's possible for the modders to work around that at all?

    And is there a technical reason why you couldn't at least allow us to use those shells and put them on the other worlds? I imagine not all shells will look like giant buildings, so they wouldn't look too out of place in, let's say, Newcrest?

    I think the shells are objects, so I'm sure modders will find ways to "liberate" them and do crazy things. It's just not something we support in worlds other than San Myshuno.
  • CinderellimouseCinderellimouse Posts: 19,380 Member
    IngeJones wrote: »
    And is there a technical reason why you couldn't at least allow us to use those shells and put them on the other worlds? I imagine not all shells will look like giant buildings, so they wouldn't look too out of place in, let's say, Newcrest?

    I think you'd only be able to place them as deco objects on a lot, and build inside them on the ground. I think lot height is dictated by data that belongs as part of the neighborhood.


    But what makes an apartment an apartment? Not the shells then? So we could somehow make apartments without them, since they are just an object? In TS2 it was the apartments door and the lot type, right? In TS3 I think there were some markers, to mark common areas, neighbors' apartments, your apartment, that sort of thing. So how do they work in TS4, is what I want to know.

    This is what I'd like to know too please. How does the game differentiate between a communal area (e.g a hallway) and an apartment space? And is the apartment space considered to be part of the lot rather than the world/shell?

    Thank you for explaining these things @SimGuruEugi
  • rudy8292rudy8292 Posts: 3,348 Member
    @SimGuruEugi

    This makes me also worried. The apartments are tied to San Myshuno, but I really do not want Seasons to end up like tied to one world.

    I hope, when you guys make a Seasons EP, the Seasons will be part of every world. Not just tied to one world made for Seasons.

    I hope you can, and will do it like that.
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    IngeJones wrote: »
    And is there a technical reason why you couldn't at least allow us to use those shells and put them on the other worlds? I imagine not all shells will look like giant buildings, so they wouldn't look too out of place in, let's say, Newcrest?

    I think you'd only be able to place them as deco objects on a lot, and build inside them on the ground. I think lot height is dictated by data that belongs as part of the neighborhood.


    But what makes an apartment an apartment? Not the shells then? So we could somehow make apartments without them, since they are just an object? In TS2 it was the apartments door and the lot type, right? In TS3 I think there were some markers, to mark common areas, neighbors' apartments, your apartment, that sort of thing. So how do they work in TS4, is what I want to know.

    This is what I'd like to know too please. How does the game differentiate between a communal area (e.g a hallway) and an apartment space? And is the apartment space considered to be part of the lot rather than the world/shell?

    Thank you for explaining these things @SimGuruEugi

    The data is defined in the world.
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    @SimGuruEugi

    This makes me also worried. The apartments are tied to San Myshuno, but I really do not want Seasons to end up like tied to one world.

    I hope, when you guys make a Seasons EP, the Seasons will be part of every world. Not just tied to one world made for Seasons.

    I hope you can, and will do it like that.

    I never talked about Seasons.
  • rudy8292rudy8292 Posts: 3,348 Member
    edited September 2016
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    @SimGuruEugi

    This makes me also worried. The apartments are tied to San Myshuno, but I really do not want Seasons to end up like tied to one world.

    I hope, when you guys make a Seasons EP, the Seasons will be part of every world. Not just tied to one world made for Seasons.

    I hope you can, and will do it like that.

    I never talked about Seasons.

    @SimGuruEugi
    No, I know, but just to take this as an example.

    This apartment feature is tied to one specific world. We do not have the freedom to use them in other worlds.

    My concern is; that for big features, (just like the apartments) it will be tied to one world. I remember a guru saying that it is not likely we will ever be able to Swim in the already existing worlds, but that most likely, swimming will be part of worlds -made- for that.

    So, this also makes me worried, that all of those features will all end up in worlds made for features like that, and not being universal to already in game content/worlds.
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,189 Member
    I have two modding related questions :
    - Do you know if the new careers will have any major impact on the way careers work at the moment (like major changes in the XML/Data ressources used by the career/career level/career track) ?
    - Will the apartments traits be moddable ? Is it something that should be doable with XML/Data ?
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    @SimGuruEugi

    This makes me also worried. The apartments are tied to San Myshuno, but I really do not want Seasons to end up like tied to one world.

    I hope, when you guys make a Seasons EP, the Seasons will be part of every world. Not just tied to one world made for Seasons.

    I hope you can, and will do it like that.

    I never talked about Seasons.

    @SimGuruEugi
    No, I know, but just to take this as an example.

    This apartment feature is tied to one specific world. We do not have the freedom to use them in other worlds.

    My concern is; that for big features, (just like the apartments) it will be tied to one world. I remember a guru saying that it is not likely we will ever be able to Swim in the already existing worlds, but that most likely, swimming will be part of worlds -made- for that.

    So, this also makes me worried, that all of those features will all end up in worlds made for features like that, and not being universal to already in game content/worlds.

    I hear you.
  • Aquarius94Aquarius94 Posts: 430 Member
    edited September 2016
    I think the shells are objects, so I'm sure modders will find ways to "liberate" them and do crazy things. It's just not something we support in worlds other than San Myshuno.

    But...why? What was the thought process when you guys decided that apartments should only be available in one area of the game? That was an awfully weird choice for a game where the player's supposed to have complete control. With the limited amount of space we have in TS4 apartments would have been perfect for people running out of space to put their households in other neighborhoods.
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    Neia wrote: »
    I have two modding related questions :
    - Do you know if the new careers will have any major impact on the way careers work at the moment (like major changes in the XML/Data ressources used by the career/career level/career track) ?
    - Will the apartments traits be moddable ? Is it something that should be doable with XML/Data ?

    There may or may not be ;) some added career functionality, but I can't talk about that, and I don't know how/if it will invalidate mods.

    Apartment traits should be fully moddable.
  • SimGuruEugiSimGuruEugi Posts: 503 SimGuru
    Aquarius94 wrote: »
    I think the shells are objects, so I'm sure modders will find ways to "liberate" them and do crazy things. It's just not something we support in worlds other than San Myshuno.

    But...why? What was the thought process when you guys decided that apartments should only be available in one area of the game? With the limited amount of space we have in TS4 apartments would have been perfect for people running out of space to put their households in other neighborhoods.

    Like I said in a few replies above, you can think of apartment buildings like neighborhoods. We don't go back to shipped worlds and change the lot/neighborhood configuration, because that might negatively impact your existing lots.
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,230 Member
    rudy8292 wrote: »

    My concern is; that for big features, (just like the apartments) it will be tied to one world. I remember a guru saying that it is not likely we will ever be able to Swim in the already existing worlds, but that most likely, swimming will be part of worlds -made- for that.

    So, this also makes me worried, that all of those features will all end up in worlds made for features like that, and not being universal to already in game content/worlds.

    Weirdly I don't actually mind this for weather. Well, provided they are not just vacation worlds. I wouldn't mind being able to choose which sims lived in what type of climate.
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,230 Member
    Aquarius94 wrote: »
    But...why? What was the thought process when you guys decided that apartments should only be available in one area of the game? That was an awfully weird choice for a game where the player's supposed to have complete control. With the limited amount of space we have in TS4 apartments would have been perfect for people running out of space to put their households in other neighborhoods.

    Because they had to set up lots at different heights, which is part of the world data.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,556 Member
    Would it be safe to assume, if lot traits end up being a hit, we could see future packs expand upon them, like the club rules/activities in Get Together? Or is it more likely to be a City Living exclusive thing?
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,189 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    I have two modding related questions :
    - Do you know if the new careers will have any major impact on the way careers work at the moment (like major changes in the XML/Data ressources used by the career/career level/career track) ?
    - Will the apartments traits be moddable ? Is it something that should be doable with XML/Data ?

    There may or may not be ;) some added career functionality, but I can't talk about that, and I don't know how/if it will invalidate mods.

    Apartment traits should be fully moddable.

    Ok, I'll plan some time to take a close look at careers just to be safe then ;)

    And yay for moddable apartment traits ! :)
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