Because every time you guys add something new it is either poorly executed or boring *cough* emotions/ musical chairs of doom *cough* Besides, what is a life simulation game without pets, seasons or family play like these things should kind of be in the base game by now but I'm not judging although A LOT of AAA games ship with awesome weather and animals <.< >.> I'd like new sprinkled into the old, improved not removed
You may find that you aren't interested in those things but that doesn't mean others aren't. We are a life simulation game, not a Witcher or GTA or any of those types of games where you only control one character and the rest are 100% NPCs. Would it be nice to have pets and seasons in a base game? Sure. But what are you willing to cut for it? I know it's not the communities "job" to think about those things but we do. We have to see the much bigger picture.
There are some old things that have such a big impact that they completely change the game. Seasons is one of these for me for example, different weather and seasons passing makes it a completely different game. So there're two main reasons I can think of that could make me prefer an old theme like Seasons over new experiences : I know how game-changer some of the old themes were, while I don't know yet whether the new experiences will be as impactful for me, and I'm afraid the old themes won't come back at all (so it's reassuring to have it now, because the future is unknown).
I definitely want new experiences too ! Ideally, I would want the old things I loved back, and the things I didn't like as much replaced with new things
So I'll give you a challenge here: What did you not like about Seasons? What did you like? What new experiences would you like to see from one of your favorite EPs?
Sorry, @SimGuruDrake I didn't mean for it to come across like that. It's just that many of us have been begging for things like toddlers and generations ever since toddlers were confirmed to not be in the base game, and seasons/pets are always the big EPs people want. I DO want new experiences but i'm sure I can speak for myself and many others in saying that I would rather have the basics and missing base game content before things we've never had before. ETA: New experiences can always be implemented through old packs, farming can be added to pets, disasters/other seasonal activities could be added to seasons, new ways to play with supernaturals in that pack etc.
That is where I kind of what to challenge you to keep an open mind. Is it great that you loved those previous EPs so much you want them again? Absolutely! But the new experiences you talked about should be the creative direction you go on. Think about what you loved in each piece of content and what you'd like to see added upon the things you already loved about them.
Oh boy where to start. Because it's The Sims 4, I am expecting the basics to come back.
You guys already gave us two "meh" EPs, it's time to bring back something to go wow about, something that is constantly mentioned on this forum, pets/seasons/generations/supernaturals/apartments/university to mention a few.
This is just my opinion but seeing how there's constantly negative opinions around this game maybe I feel like the future is uncertain and you might stop production before I get to see my favorite EP coming out? I'm reaching but you get the idea.
Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?"
Okay, thanks for asking specifically about Seasons as an example, as that's one of my favourite EPs ever and something that I feel strongly should be incorporated into a life simulation game.
- "What did you not like about Seasons? What did you like?"
For me TS2 seasons didn't really have any drawbacks. I loved how you could customize the seasonal cycle for each neighbourhood. I loved that we got the Outerwear category and that Sims automatically changed into their Outerwear when it was cold enough. I loved that each season came with a specific boost - romance for spring, friends for summer, skills for autumn, and family for winter. This was subtle and didn't overpower your gameplay but enhanced it in small ways. I loved the unique gameplay for each season, and how Sims really interacted with their environment, and that the seasons gave them new ways to interact with each other. Snowball fights and water balloon fights were especially important as they were outdoor activities that could engage multiple Sims at once (something that we're lacking in TS4 - campfires can do this, but you didn't need to buy a special object in TS2 to give your Sims group outdoor activities). But above all, what I loved about Seasons was that it worked in every single story. Everywhere in the world has weather. The elements are there, and the random element (say, rain at a wedding, or lightning in the hot tub) recreates a very real part of life - you don't know what the weather is going to give you on any given day, and it can affect our stories in such subtle ways.
TS3 included most of these features but also added a lot more. For me, this was a double-edged sword as I felt that the seasons overpowered my Sims' lives -- too many days off school, and the festivals never worked for me because of all the lag and few other Sims ever showed up. I ended up giving up on most of the seasonal festivals, and things like the Weatherstone gave my game so much lag that I sometimes regretted I needed all these extra add-ons just to have realistic weather.
- "What new experiences would you like to see from one of your favorite EPs?"
Great question! I think these are some important ingredients for success of a Seasons TS4 pack:
* Build on the Emotions system, but with options. For example, a rainy day may make some Sims happy and some Sims sad. (I personally LOVE rainy days and love to go outside and explore when it's raining, whereas other people I know moan and mope when it's raining outside.) If you could set weather preferences for your Sim in CAS (similar to how in TS3 we could choose favourite foods, music, etc) it would go a long way towards making the Seasons experience in TS4 unique AND enjoyable. (Eg you can choose Like/Neutral/Dislike on all four seasons and pick a favourite and least favourite type of weather.) One of the biggest complaints about the Emotions system I see on the forums is that most Sims react to most things the same way. It would be disappointing if all Sims loved sunshine and got depressed during a thunderstorm, loved summer and hated winter, etc. Seasons would be a great opportunity to diversify Sims' reactions to their environments.
* A few new Traits would go a long way. TS3 did a good job with adding related traits to every new pack, whereas TS4 has lagged behind in that area. The great thing about adding Traits with an EP is that it gives Sims even more ways to relate to new content. I've noticed that the last few traits added since the BG have been much more fleshed out than many of the BG traits, so it would be great if Seasons (or ANY EP) developed this trend.
* Prioritize gameplay that works in as many stories as possible. Simmers like to have as many options as possible for creating their stories, so activities that can work in any place or time (within reason), such as snowball fights, sandcastles, and jumping in puddles, are more important than too many very specific activities that have a limited amount of replayability (such as, I might argue, snowboarding, though I know many Simmers do love those sorts of activities so it's good to include some specific things amidst the general).
* Provide plenty of ways to tie Seasons in to other packs. It would be a crying shame if Seasons had barely any interconnectedness with Outdoor Retreat, for example. While this might be beyond what the team is willing or able to deliver, I would love it if GTW careers were broadened too to include some seasonal activities - Doctors might have more illnesses to treat in winter, Scientists might be able to make special potions in different seasons. The possibilities are endless: Sixam experiences seasonal variation, spas offer special seasonal treatments, restaurants have a few menu items based on seasonal availability of ingredients, Sims get special buffs from the water slide in summer (or winter, if they feel too cold to use it!), etc. Plenty of room for the team to use their imagination and flex their creative muscles there!
* A new career! There are not enough careers available for outdoorsy Sims (especially since Manual Labour is only available to Teens). A career in parks, education (this came with Seasons in TS2), travel... Really, TS2:Seasons came with six new careers. They weren't all related to the weather, either. Seasons is a pack about deepening the immersion.
* A new world! Go wild - the world is full of beautiful places that change with the seasons. From flower viewing in a Japanese town to skiing in a Nordic mountain village, the world is absolutely teeming with inspiration for new Sim experiences to do with seasonal activities. While many players are keenly feeling the need for a new regular world to alleviate the lack of space in our existing worlds, even new vacation worlds would help build on the mechanic introduced in OR.
I hope you can see that I, like many Simmers, want TS4 to include many of the functionalities that we have come to see as fundamental to a life simulation game (weather being the most important for me), while still being open to creative new possibilities that build on what TS4 has been introducing. In general this is the trend that the Sims series has usually followed, bringing freshness to a familiar theme by reinvigorating it with new content that wasn't possible in previous iterations. The desire to see seasons, pets, supernaturals, etc in TS4 isn't a desire to see the team churn out the exact same formula year after year, but to give players the same basic storytelling concepts in new and creative ways.
(And, might I add, please let none of these new features come at the expense of our Sims' relationships, like what seems to have been happening with the steadily mounting issues of culling, relationship culling, and inactive played relationship decay.)
Since everyone made a big deal about the tweet, why not ask what type of EPs she likes. Do you think @SimGuruDrake could answer that? For example:
Cute EPs
- Any EP that includes what we consider cute (pets,babies and children)
Magical
- Mysterious worlds
- Mysterious Creatures
- Fantasy lover
Destinations
-Amazing worlds
- Brand new spaces for sims to do all sorts of new activities
Relationships
- Love related things
- Friendship related things
I actually just got a big grin on my face because no one has really asked me that! Just want to preface that what I'm about to say is 100% my own personal preferences and as per usual I do not include any hints whatsoever so please take what I am about to say at face value.
Now I'm thinking about stuff I've enjoyed from the past and new things that would be my dream addition. Looking at this as if the sky is the limit and could be any type of pack not just expansion:
On to the question!
Magical:
I LOVE witches and wizards. Learning to cast spells and the havoc it would cause when you get it wrong. Mythical creatures like baby dragons, mandrake plants, pixies, and centaurs would be awesome. (In my mind very much inspired by the likes of Harry Potter).
Exploration:
Venturing out to new destinations and exploring historical sites (including ruins) and learning about the different cultures and traditions. Learn new trades and new cuisines.
Fashion:
Start from the bottom on the indie scene and working up to being the top designer in the fashion world. Styling all new looks and new patterns that everyone just has to wear.
Forensic Files:
Various ways to cause questionable deaths to my Sims which lead to investigations by police to find the culprit (if you've ever watched the show forensic files you'd know what I mean.)
MEDIEVAL TIMES!!! Knights in shining armor, castles, fending off dragons (or befriending them and becoming a dragon rider), with inspirations from King Arthur and the Tudor Dynasty (I LOVE history). This would be perfect for fairies (especially if I ever wanted to recreate the story of Sleeping Beauty).
Other things that I would enjoy:
Vampires, Mermaids, Shape shifters, Farming / Living off the land (I am super into Stardew Valley), Entrepreneur career (build your own company from the ground up), Movie Star / Film Maker (including animated films).
Also some have asked how I play: I'm a bit of a deviant player / loner. My sims are normally very career focused and have a very small circle of friends and rarely do they have kids. Right now my current Sim (Evelyn Oak--her name is based after my all time favorite Pokemon and also my favorite character from the original Pokrmon series Gary Oak) is a "starving artist" trying to make her way in the art world. She is creative, childish (being a kid at heart helps her see the wonders and possibilities in everything around her--she totally collected and battled Voidcritter cards as a kid and was the local undefeated champion), and a loner. She spends a lot of her time painting and learning her trade. She is currently talking to this really cute gentleman she met during ghost night at the local pub (her neighbor invited her out to try and meet people) --don't worry he isn't a ghost but he is a cutie. He is a DJ and he inspires her to push herself creatively and to use her surroundings as inspiration, including listening to new types of music while she paints.
@Scobre has reminded me though that I need to get back to my Anne Boelyn sim --I was playing her on my work computer during my free moments.
OK, you just made me hopeful for being enthousiastic about the upcoming EP ^.^
@SimGuruDrake What shocks me the most is that you have any free time at work.
If gurus use that free time to play and consequentially test the game, I hope they'll have lots of it. Wouldn't even consider it 'free time' to be honest.
Since everyone made a big deal about the tweet, why not ask what type of EPs she likes. Do you think @SimGuruDrake could answer that? For example:
Cute EPs
- Any EP that includes what we consider cute (pets,babies and children)
Magical
- Mysterious worlds
- Mysterious Creatures
- Fantasy lover
Destinations
-Amazing worlds
- Brand new spaces for sims to do all sorts of new activities
Relationships
- Love related things
- Friendship related things
I actually just got a big grin on my face because no one has really asked me that! Just want to preface that what I'm about to say is 100% my own personal preferences and as per usual I do not include any hints whatsoever so please take what I am about to say at face value.
Now I'm thinking about stuff I've enjoyed from the past and new things that would be my dream addition. Looking at this as if the sky is the limit and could be any type of pack not just expansion:
On to the question!
Magical:
I LOVE witches and wizards. Learning to cast spells and the havoc it would cause when you get it wrong. Mythical creatures like baby dragons, mandrake plants, pixies, and centaurs would be awesome. (In my mind very much inspired by the likes of Harry Potter).
Exploration:
Venturing out to new destinations and exploring historical sites (including ruins) and learning about the different cultures and traditions. Learn new trades and new cuisines.
Fashion:
Start from the bottom on the indie scene and working up to being the top designer in the fashion world. Styling all new looks and new patterns that everyone just has to wear.
Forensic Files:
Various ways to cause questionable deaths to my Sims which lead to investigations by police to find the culprit (if you've ever watched the show forensic files you'd know what I mean.)
MEDIEVAL TIMES!!! Knights in shining armor, castles, fending off dragons (or befriending them and becoming a dragon rider), with inspirations from King Arthur and the Tudor Dynasty (I LOVE history). This would be perfect for fairies (especially if I ever wanted to recreate the story of Sleeping Beauty).
Other things that I would enjoy:
Vampires, Mermaids, Shape shifters, Farming / Living off the land (I am super into Stardew Valley), Entrepreneur career (build your own company from the ground up), Movie Star / Film Maker (including animated films).
Also some have asked how I play: I'm a bit of a deviant player / loner. My sims are normally very career focused and have a very small circle of friends and rarely do they have kids. Right now my current Sim (Evelyn Oak--her name is based after my all time favorite Pokemon and also my favorite character from the original Pokrmon series Gary Oak) is a "starving artist" trying to make her way in the art world. She is creative, childish (being a kid at heart helps her see the wonders and possibilities in everything around her--she totally collected and battled Voidcritter cards as a kid and was the local undefeated champion), and a loner. She spends a lot of her time painting and learning her trade. She is currently talking to this really cute gentleman she met during ghost night at the local pub (her neighbor invited her out to try and meet people) --don't worry he isn't a ghost but he is a cutie. He is a DJ and he inspires her to push herself creatively and to use her surroundings as inspiration, including listening to new types of music while she paints.
@Scobre has reminded me though that I need to get back to my Anne Boelyn sim --I was playing her on my work computer during my free moments.
[/s][/s][/s]
I never knew we had so much in common when it comes to things that You like and gameplay style , pretty awesome.
This gives me hope that these features will more likely make it into the game.
I am not the biggest Ts4 defender but i think it's quite an oversimplification to say "why don't they just include content from all previous EPs in the base game". Perhaps some of these features could have been added in the BG (they certainly did intend to have weather in TS2 BG) but games have to be developed on a budget and there is also a deadline. You can't possibly include everything in the base game without (I) those features being half baked or (II) cutting other features.
I think most of us understand that.
That being said, TS4 base game is VERY bare compared to previous base games. Eg SimGuruDrake asked which features we would sacrifice for weather? Well, I wonder what feature we got because they sacrificed toddlers....
Base games are meant to be built upon with the addition of content. As a long time Sims player, buying EPs and Stuff packs was a foregone conclusion if we wanted the game to evolve. Most fans are wondering the same thing about what content was included/ made room for in TS4's base game that made omitting toddlers necessary. Because the base game was quite sparse when it was released. I never expected weather and pets to be included in the base game. That kind of content has always come to us in the form of an EP.
But the core element that made the past games immersive and fun was the inclusion of content that added new game play, and that isn't happening very quickly with TS4. I like the game and stuff packs we have now, but they miss the mark a bit. They don't quite measure up to having a full EP of new content. And holding back on releasing EP3 until the holidays get closer, well, we have been waiting a long time for news so why should we take that thought seriously, either?
While I appreciate the fact SimGuruDrake is very excited about EP3, I just can't bring myself to be excited about something I know nothing about. Is she excited because the EP will suit her style of playing? Or does she think this EP is going to be truly great and appeal to a large audience? Anyway, I am really tired of the gag order everyone at EA has to deal with in regards to telling the fans anything. And I doubt very much I am the only one feeling this way.
If it's not seasons, generations, pets or supernatural people will be disappointed, they know we don't want new things and would rather have the other packs first.
I'm not making any comment about your speculation on what it could or couldn't be but your delivery made me want to comment on this because I personally think this really is a sad way to view things.
Why don't you want new experiences? In the grand schemes of things you must realize that there are others who do want new experiences with a bit of the old thrown in. Why don't you want to the team to push themselves creatively to try new things? This is honestly something I struggle with understanding when I see comments like that on the forums and would really love to understand this kind of mind set.
The real question is why can't your team give people what their asking for instead of having selective hearing. Sure, new experiences are great but ignoring the huge elephant in the room isn't going to fix the game either.
And whose voices should we only be listening to? The forums? Twitter? Reddit? YouTube? Facebook? Tumblr? Snapchat? Surveys? Fan Sites? When anyone says "give people what their asking for" it almost always is just about what is being asked about here in the forums and no where else. We have to look at the bigger picture, not silos. We have to see what the common denominator is among all of the voices to see if we can't pin-point what is the most important piece of the puzzle for that particular piece of content.
And this is what frustrates me. You always say things like this when we give our feedback, "yes, you don't like this, but what about those who like it?", "yes, you want X, but what about the others who want Y?" Ok...? What does that mean exactly? It seems our feedback doesn't matter at all just because someone else might not like it or prefer other things. There are so many threads with well thought out posts explaining why we aren't happy with the game and then all of sudden you say something like how you don't understand why people are upset and why they want this or that. I mean, do you read the posts at all?
I'm on both tumblr and facebook and I see people's reactions when you announce a new pack or when a piece of news/interview comes out. A lot of people's wishes are in sync with the ones in the forum, it just seems like you don't want to see that. Take the facebook posts for example.
When talking about Backyard Stuff Pack: "Ugh, no thanks. Think I'm done with sims 4. Back to sims 3 for me." 742 likesx
On the quarter teaser: "It seems like there should be something in between a baby who does literally nothing and a child who spends all day at school...hmm...I can't seem to put my finger on it" 887 likesx
"Even though it is nice to get pretty cool add-ons for 9.99, can we please get another expansion pack next like a seasons, university, or pets?" 1458 likesx
And like those there are a ton of other comments with at least 200+ likes asking for toddlers, the old EPs back and how they are tired of SPs. But then those comments get buried once the sims team at facebook starts to answer to all the positive comments and ignores the other ones. I mean doesn't that tell you anything? I could do the same with youtube and it would have the same result. If you can't see what is being asked the most right now, then I don't know what else to tell you to be honest. I know we are only a fraction of the fanbase, but what purpose does the forums and other social media websites serve if you keep turning a blind eye to what most people are asking and so quickly dismiss our requests? I just don't get this mindset at all...
If it's not seasons, generations, pets or supernatural people will be disappointed, they know we don't want new things and would rather have the other packs first.
I'm not making any comment about your speculation on what it could or couldn't be but your delivery made me want to comment on this because I personally think this really is a sad way to view things.
Why don't you want new experiences? In the grand schemes of things you must realize that there are others who do want new experiences with a bit of the old thrown in. Why don't you want to the team to push themselves creatively to try new things? This is honestly something I struggle with understanding when I see comments like that on the forums and would really love to understand this kind of mind set.
The real question is why can't your team give people what their asking for instead of having selective hearing. Sure, new experiences are great but ignoring the huge elephant in the room isn't going to fix the game either.
And whose voices should we only be listening to? The forums? Twitter? Reddit? YouTube? Facebook? Tumblr? Snapchat? Surveys? Fan Sites? When anyone says "give people what their asking for" it almost always is just about what is being asked about here in the forums and no where else. We have to look at the bigger picture, not silos. We have to see what the common denominator is among all of the voices to see if we can't pin-point what is the most important piece of the puzzle for that particular piece of content.
And this is what frustrates me. You always say things like this when we give our feedback, "yes, you don't like this, but what about those who like it?", "yes, you want X, but what about the others who want Y?" Ok...? What does that mean exactly? It seems our feedback doesn't matter at all just because someone else might not like it or prefer other things. There are so many threads with well thought out posts explaining why we aren't happy with the game and then all of sudden you say something like how you don't understand why people are upset and why they want this or that. I mean, do you read the posts at all?
I'm on both tumblr and facebook and I see people's reactions when you announce a new pack or when a piece of news/interview comes out. A lot of people's wishes are in sync with the ones in the forum, it just seems like you don't want to see that. Take the facebook posts for example.
When talking about Backyard Stuff Pack: "Ugh, no thanks. Think I'm done with sims 4. Back to sims 3 for me." 742 likesx
On the quarter teaser: "It seems like there should be something in between a baby who does literally nothing and a child who spends all day at school...hmm...I can't seem to put my finger on it" 887 likesx
"Even though it is nice to get pretty cool add-ons for 9.99, can we please get another expansion pack next like a seasons, university, or pets?" 1458 likesx
And like those there are a ton of other comments with at least 200+ likes asking for toddlers, the old EPs back and how they are tired of SPs. But then those comments get buried once the sims team at facebook starts to answer to all the positive comments and ignores the other ones. I mean doesn't that tell you anything? I could do the same with youtube and it would have the same result. If you can't see what is being asked the most right now, then I don't know what else to tell you to be honest. I know we are only a fraction of the fanbase, but what purpose does the forums and other social media websites serve if you keep turning a blind eye to what most people are asking and so quickly dismiss our requests? I just don't get this mindset at all...
I'm passing through, and it's bothering me enough to answer.
The forums, and other social media for The Sims is mostly so we can share game play and have conversations about the game, get help for it and etc. Feedback is, and has been throughout TS3 and TS4, hit and miss. There's no reason not to leave feedback, just don't expect that they'll act upon it. They have their plan, and often times, their plan doesn't correlate to what we as players would like. The store was the exception to this.
I don't want to put words where they shouldn't be put, but for the sake of argument, what I've read is that we shouldn't expect all the old packs to appear, or if they do, they'll appear in a new way, that we wouldn't expect. That we're just the tip of the iceberg and there are a lot of things to factor in that we don't understand, which I'll accept. I know others won't.
Toddlers. I'm not one who's all bent on getting them back in game, which I'll be the first to admit to. I would, at this stage, assume that they aren't coming back unless and until you are informed otherwise.
Oh, yeah. Don't expect news outside of the quarterly teasers. This doesn't mean that production is shut down, so stop worrying about that. The relevant teams are all hard at work, again, unless and until we're informed otherwise.
Since everyone made a big deal about the tweet, why not ask what type of EPs she likes. Do you think @SimGuruDrake could answer that? For example:
Cute EPs
- Any EP that includes what we consider cute (pets,babies and children)
Magical
- Mysterious worlds
- Mysterious Creatures
- Fantasy lover
Destinations
-Amazing worlds
- Brand new spaces for sims to do all sorts of new activities
Relationships
- Love related things
- Friendship related things
I actually just got a big grin on my face because no one has really asked me that! Just want to preface that what I'm about to say is 100% my own personal preferences and as per usual I do not include any hints whatsoever so please take what I am about to say at face value.
Now I'm thinking about stuff I've enjoyed from the past and new things that would be my dream addition. Looking at this as if the sky is the limit and could be any type of pack not just expansion:
On to the question!
Magical:
I LOVE witches and wizards. Learning to cast spells and the havoc it would cause when you get it wrong. Mythical creatures like baby dragons, mandrake plants, pixies, and centaurs would be awesome. (In my mind very much inspired by the likes of Harry Potter).
Exploration:
Venturing out to new destinations and exploring historical sites (including ruins) and learning about the different cultures and traditions. Learn new trades and new cuisines.
Fashion:
Start from the bottom on the indie scene and working up to being the top designer in the fashion world. Styling all new looks and new patterns that everyone just has to wear.
Forensic Files:
Various ways to cause questionable deaths to my Sims which lead to investigations by police to find the culprit (if you've ever watched the show forensic files you'd know what I mean.)
MEDIEVAL TIMES!!! Knights in shining armor, castles, fending off dragons (or befriending them and becoming a dragon rider), with inspirations from King Arthur and the Tudor Dynasty (I LOVE history). This would be perfect for fairies (especially if I ever wanted to recreate the story of Sleeping Beauty).
Other things that I would enjoy:
Vampires, Mermaids, Shape shifters, Farming / Living off the land (I am super into Stardew Valley), Entrepreneur career (build your own company from the ground up), Movie Star / Film Maker (including animated films).
Also some have asked how I play: I'm a bit of a deviant player / loner. My sims are normally very career focused and have a very small circle of friends and rarely do they have kids. Right now my current Sim (Evelyn Oak--her name is based after my all time favorite Pokemon and also my favorite character from the original Pokrmon series Gary Oak) is a "starving artist" trying to make her way in the art world. She is creative, childish (being a kid at heart helps her see the wonders and possibilities in everything around her--she totally collected and battled Voidcritter cards as a kid and was the local undefeated champion), and a loner. She spends a lot of her time painting and learning her trade. She is currently talking to this really cute gentleman she met during ghost night at the local pub (her neighbor invited her out to try and meet people) --don't worry he isn't a ghost but he is a cutie. He is a DJ and he inspires her to push herself creatively and to use her surroundings as inspiration, including listening to new types of music while she paints.
@Scobre has reminded me though that I need to get back to my Anne Boelyn sim --I was playing her on my work computer during my free moments.
Reading this actually made me fangirl squeal! I love everything you've described! Especially the Forensic Files inspired idea - I love that show! Wouldn't it be awesome to have something like the private investigator career from TS3 brought back into TS4 with a dark twist with murder investigations and a film noir kinda feel?
I loved reading about your current sim - so awesome!
Your description of the Medieval play reminded me of a story I had in TS3 which was kinda Red Riding Hood inspired, with Red being the granddaughter of a powerful witch (and also a powerful witch herself, trained by her grandmother) who goes on a quest through the woods to rescue her childhood friend, who was transformed into a werewolf. I don't play with supernaturals that much, but that was a fun story to play through.
I'm a CC Creator and family player that is super hyped that toddlers are back!
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
Not speaking for anyone else but myself. For me the forum is a place to share what's happening in your game, find answers to problems and bugs, get inspiration from other players. Feedback is important but not my main reason for being here.
Here is why I think it is fair to compare Sims 4 to other AAA games like Witcher 3 or GTA V
1. Sims 4 BG costs around the same amount for much less content and gameplay but I'll give them CAS and build mode but even them the game is still less impressive.
2. I can play those Base games like Sims 2 BG and enjoy myself, I don't feel the need to buy expansions to enjoy the original game.
3. Since sims 4 costs much less than these amazing games with clearly less amd packs keep adding to the cost, I'm waiting to be blown away like I am for those games. Not told what I can't have.
4. In the end it is still a game and while sims 4 has to focus on mechanics like CAS GTA focuses on driving any vehicle available in an open world. GTA' s developers aren't telling their customers because there are night and day cycles or a bugger world they have to give up having a usable ocean.
Face it, no matter how different these games are at the end the non sim games have NPC reacting better to environments amd other things. The games are incredibly well made while Sims 4 BG is a shell of wven a sims game. Emotions are basically the terrible version of moodlets so I see no reasong to have had anything removed for them.
Fun fact, I've spent so much looking at how NPC react and live in Witcher 3 amd enjoyed it far much more than seeing the 20 same sims come to every lot and unreasonable hours. Like a full club at 11am -_- Sims 3 also had more interesting townies and maybe that is because the game wasn't in sunshine town or maybe gamea need an open world to feel complete.
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
Not speaking for anyone else but myself. For me the forum is a place to share what's happening in your game, find answers to problems and bugs, get inspiration from other players. Feedback is important but not my main reason for being here.
The forums of the original Sims was the place to be to learn and share ideas with Will Wright and the developers. They visited often. Funny how this little game can't spare the time and ignore it's official forums. And funny how sixteen years later, customers are told their ideas and requests should be weighed against what they are willing to give up. Really? Maybe some aren't cut out for public relations.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
You say us having seasons and pets built into a base game means we have to give up something? Seriously? That in and of itself is the reason we're not progressing. At this stage in the Sims series these features should be included in the base game. Why do we keep having to pay for things we've had since sims 2 all over again each time you all release a new iteration of the game. It's absurd.
Yes you'd have to give up something. There is a balancing act and you could never realistically have everything we've ever released in the past in one base game. I actually wonder how big of a download that base game would be...I'm sure someone here as done that type of math (if so please link me! I'd love to see what those numbers look like)
Bolded emphasis mine. Certainly it could be done if EA would release the base game on discs again. So we would, you know, OWN what we paid for, which would include being able to re-sell it in the future if we didn't want it any more. One of the MANY reasons I refuse to buy TS4 is its tied-to-Origin requirement, and also the reason I refuse to patch TS3 beyond 1.67.
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
Not speaking for anyone else but myself. For me the forum is a place to share what's happening in your game, find answers to problems and bugs, get inspiration from other players. Feedback is important but not my main reason for being here.
The forums of the original Sims was the place to be to learn and share ideas with Will Wright and the developers. They visited often. Funny how this little game can't spare the time and ignore it's official forums. And funny how sixteen years later, customers are told their ideas and requests should be weighed against what they are willing to give up. Really? Maybe some aren't cut out for public relations.
I don't think it's a reflection on @SimGuruDrake, but a fact of the matter. To add, they've not been a place to talk with the dev's for a long time. Talk to each other, yes.
My assumption:
There are limited resources, both of a monetary and an animations bucket (to borrow @SimGuruGraham's phrasing) for each team. If you have a limited resource of both, then eventually, it comes down to a point where you've got to pick and choose what you have in the pack. Too much of one means you've got to take it from somewhere else to even up the balance.
It then comes down to simple fact. To add this feature, what will you take away?
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
Not speaking for anyone else but myself. For me the forum is a place to share what's happening in your game, find answers to problems and bugs, get inspiration from other players. Feedback is important but not my main reason for being here.
The forums of the original Sims was the place to be to learn and share ideas with Will Wright and the developers. They visited often. Funny how this little game can't spare the time and ignore it's official forums. And funny how sixteen years later, customers are told their ideas and requests should be weighed against what they are willing to give up. Really? Maybe some aren't cut out for public relations.
I don't think it's a reflection on @SimGuruDrake, but a fact of the matter. To add, they've not been a place to talk with the dev's for a long time. Talk to each other, yes.
My assumption:
There are limited resources, both of a monetary and an animations bucket (to borrow @SimGuruGraham's phrasing) for each team. If you have a limited resource of both, then eventually, it comes down to a point where you've got to pick and choose what you have in the pack. Too much of one means you've got to take it from somewhere else to even up the balance.
It then comes down to simple fact. To add this feature, what will you take away?
Same old song and dance we have heard since day one, too hard, too expensive, too complicated. No one is to blame for the lack of interest in this game than Maxis. Yes, there are new players and some older players from way back who will buy anything because you know they have their mods to 'fix it' anyway.
But those who have poured their heart out on feedback like @sparkfairy1 and many others including myself were just told 'the forums are not the be all, end all, for ideas'. Wish they had stickied that to the forums on day one we wouldn't have wasted our breath. Or maybe, it's more like those who are supposed to be reporting back to developers are only telling them what they want to hear, and or giving them ideas they want to see instead of what players on the forums are requesting. The attitudes about TS4 are shocking really. And to the OP, fine then if Drake is excited for a new EP, seeing how I wasn't thrilled with GTW, GT or much else in this game, let her play it. Because I doubt I would be getting it because you know anyone with any self respect and or intelligence, was more or less told it's too hard, it' too expensive, it's to complicated, relationships would have to be culled (oh wait they already are) and look forums aren't the place we gather our ideas all that much. Thanks for the Stick it in my eye Maxis, you guys have really become such great public relations gurus, it's more fun to read than playing this game. ETA: Then you wonder why customer service gets an F and EA which should be Maxis should get an F in public relations and help EA gain that coveted Worst Company of the Year award for a third time.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
IMO, people seem to think that because they buy a game, they somehow have become a partner in the business that owns that game and are allowed to demand and complain as if their words are what make or break the company. Try calling Ford and demanding what you want in the next Fusion or you won't buy it and see what happens. Nothing. They own and create the game and can do whatever they want and go in any direction they want. The fact that they are good enough to ask our opinions, doesn't mean any of those opinions will come to fruition. I imagine that they giggle when they read "... and if you don't, I won't buy this game anymore!" Like a few disgruntled customers will make even the tiniest of ripples in the ocean of a gaming company. Get a grip. If you feel your wants and needs and can't live withouts are being ignored, then maybe they just aren't worthy of adding to the game. Maybe your ideas don't make gaming sense or fiscal sense. They are driving the train, we are just passengers. You can jump off any time.
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
Not speaking for anyone else but myself. For me the forum is a place to share what's happening in your game, find answers to problems and bugs, get inspiration from other players. Feedback is important but not my main reason for being here.
The forums of the original Sims was the place to be to learn and share ideas with Will Wright and the developers. They visited often. Funny how this little game can't spare the time and ignore it's official forums. And funny how sixteen years later, customers are told their ideas and requests should be weighed against what they are willing to give up. Really? Maybe some aren't cut out for public relations.
I don't think it's a reflection on @SimGuruDrake, but a fact of the matter. To add, they've not been a place to talk with the dev's for a long time. Talk to each other, yes.
My assumption:
There are limited resources, both of a monetary and an animations bucket (to borrow @SimGuruGraham's phrasing) for each team. If you have a limited resource of both, then eventually, it comes down to a point where you've got to pick and choose what you have in the pack. Too much of one means you've got to take it from somewhere else to even up the balance.
It then comes down to simple fact. To add this feature, what will you take away?
Same old song and dance we have heard since day one, too hard, too expensive, too complicated. No one is to blame for the lack of interest in this game than Maxis. Yes, there are new players and some older players from way back who will buy anything because you know they have their mods to 'fix it' anyway.
But those who have poured their heart out on feedback like @sparkfairy1 and many others including myself were just told 'the forums are not the be all, end all, for ideas'. Wish they had stickied that to the forums on day one we wouldn't have wasted our breath. Or maybe, it's more like those who are supposed to be reporting back to developers are only telling them what they want to hear, and or giving them ideas they want to see instead of what players on the forums are requesting. The attitudes about TS4 are shocking really. And to the OP, fine then if Drake is excited for a new EP, seeing how I wasn't thrilled with GTW, GT or much else in this game, let her play it. Because I doubt I would be getting it because you know anyone with any self respect and or intelligence, was more or less told it's too hard, it' too expensive, it's to complicated, relationships would have to be culled (oh wait they already are) and look forums aren't the place we gather our ideas all that much. Thanks for the Stick it in my eye Maxis, you guys have really become such great public relations gurus, it's more fun to read than playing this game. ETA: Then you wonder why customer service gets an F and EA which should be Maxis should get an F in public relations and help EA gain that coveted Worst Company of the Year award for a third time.
I will say this then I'll be done. Why would you expect anything different? Before the change of forum, ideas and feedback was known as 'The Graveyard' where threads went to die.
I've not long since gotten my 7 year badge. In all the years I have used these forums, I have never known it as the place to go and have free and frank discussions with the devs over your thoughts and ideas. They listen, but acting on it is a different matter. That this isn't the first place they look for ideas over the game is extremely unsurprising, at least to me.
From my perspective, they clearly do take forum feedback into account: they added pools and basements, for example. I can think of many examples of content that was requested here making it into the game.
Drake didn't say 'we don't listen to the forums'. I think what she meant may have been that they take the forums into account, but also have to look at information from other sources: youtube videos and comments; twitter; reddit; reviews; and telemetry. Like it or not, the forums only represent a section of the player base. They are trying to get a wider idea of what people want from the game. That doesn't mean they don't listen here. The forums are a great place to explain ]what we want and why it is important, or discuss certain ideas.
I would say that it would be great if all players would come here and explain their thoughts. However, the forums can be a bit of an aggressive environment sometimes and I've heard players saying they don't express their views for fear of being attacked for it.
IMO, people seem to think that because they buy a game, they somehow have become a partner in the business that owns that game and are allowed to demand and complain as if their words are what make or break the company. Try calling Ford and demanding what you want in the next Fusion or you won't buy it and see what happens. Nothing. They own and create the game and can do whatever they want and go in any direction they want. The fact that they are good enough to ask our opinions, doesn't mean any of those opinions will come to fruition. I imagine that they giggle when they read "... and if you don't, I won't buy this game anymore!" Like a few disgruntled customers will make even the tiniest of ripples in the ocean of a gaming company. Get a grip. If you feel your wants and needs and can't live withouts are being ignored, then maybe they just aren't worthy of adding to the game. Maybe your ideas don't make gaming sense or fiscal sense. They are driving the train, we are just passengers. You can jump off any time.
Well cars aren't the same industry as game s and most gaming companies use their forums to get ideas and feedback.
I'm pretty sure if Ford removed the tires to add a new computer system, nobody would be happy. Even less so if the car constantly breaks down and malfunctions.
I will say this then I'll be done. Why would you expect anything different? Before the change of forum, ideas and feedback was known as 'The Graveyard' where threads went to die.
That was what people said when I first joined the forum. And yet... We got cows and chickens because we asked for them there. We got restaurants because we asked for them there. We even got a decorative pie with the bakery set because a player asked for one. We got big things and small things because we asked for them in I&F and the Store section.
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
Even on reddit there are posts about the negatives of TS4. Recent example. It just seems the gurus focus only on the positives and those who are enjoying this new "vision" of theirs. It's really frustrating to hear them say that basically all of our efforts to be heard (by posting our feedback and ideas) is going into the void because the forums "are not the end all be all". Which doesn't even make any sense because all the other websites also have people sharing their disappointment with TS4.
If it's not seasons, generations, pets or supernatural people will be disappointed, they know we don't want new things and would rather have the other packs first.
I'm not making any comment about your speculation on what it could or couldn't be but your delivery made me want to comment on this because I personally think this really is a sad way to view things.
Why don't you want new experiences? In the grand schemes of things you must realize that there are others who do want new experiences with a bit of the old thrown in. Why don't you want to the team to push themselves creatively to try new things? This is honestly something I struggle with understanding when I see comments like that on the forums and would really love to understand this kind of mind set.
The real question is why can't your team give people what their asking for instead of having selective hearing. Sure, new experiences are great but ignoring the huge elephant in the room isn't going to fix the game either.
And whose voices should we only be listening to? The forums? Twitter? Reddit? YouTube? Facebook? Tumblr? Snapchat? Surveys? Fan Sites? When anyone says "give people what their asking for" it almost always is just about what is being asked about here in the forums and no where else. We have to look at the bigger picture, not silos. We have to see what the common denominator is among all of the voices to see if we can't pin-point what is the most important piece of the puzzle for that particular piece of content.
And this is what frustrates me. You always say things like this when we give our feedback, "yes, you don't like this, but what about those who like it?", "yes, you want X, but what about the others who want Y?" Ok...? What does that mean exactly? It seems our feedback doesn't matter at all just because someone else might not like it or prefer other things. There are so many threads with well thought out posts explaining why we aren't happy with the game and then all of sudden you say something like how you don't understand why people are upset and why they want this or that. I mean, do you read the posts at all?
I'm on both tumblr and facebook and I see people's reactions when you announce a new pack or when a piece of news/interview comes out. A lot of people's wishes are in sync with the ones in the forum, it just seems like you don't want to see that. Take the facebook posts for example.
When talking about Backyard Stuff Pack: "Ugh, no thanks. Think I'm done with sims 4. Back to sims 3 for me." 742 likesx
On the quarter teaser: "It seems like there should be something in between a baby who does literally nothing and a child who spends all day at school...hmm...I can't seem to put my finger on it" 887 likesx
"Even though it is nice to get pretty cool add-ons for 9.99, can we please get another expansion pack next like a seasons, university, or pets?" 1458 likesx
And like those there are a ton of other comments with at least 200+ likes asking for toddlers, the old EPs back and how they are tired of SPs. But then those comments get buried once the sims team at facebook starts to answer to all the positive comments and ignores the other ones. I mean doesn't that tell you anything? I could do the same with youtube and it would have the same result. If you can't see what is being asked the most right now, then I don't know what else to tell you to be honest. I know we are only a fraction of the fanbase, but what purpose does the forums and other social media websites serve if you keep turning a blind eye to what most people are asking and so quickly dismiss our requests? I just don't get this mindset at all...
I'm passing through, and it's bothering me enough to answer.
The forums, and other social media for The Sims is mostly so we can share game play and have conversations about the game, get help for it and etc. Feedback is, and has been throughout TS3 and TS4, hit and miss. There's no reason not to leave feedback, just don't expect that they'll act upon it. They have their plan, and often times, their plan doesn't correlate to what we as players would like. The store was the exception to this.
I don't want to put words where they shouldn't be put, but for the sake of argument, what I've read is that we shouldn't expect all the old packs to appear, or if they do, they'll appear in a new way, that we wouldn't expect. That we're just the tip of the iceberg and there are a lot of things to factor in that we don't understand, which I'll accept. I know others won't.
Toddlers. I'm not one who's all bent on getting them back in game, which I'll be the first to admit to. I would, at this stage, assume that they aren't coming back unless and until you are informed otherwise.
Oh, yeah. Don't expect news outside of the quarterly teasers. This doesn't mean that production is shut down, so stop worrying about that. The relevant teams are all hard at work, again, unless and until we're informed otherwise.
They are not "mostly" for that. They are a place where the fans can come together and share their experiences and opinions about the game, be it positive or negative. When people are unhappy, they go to the social media to try to be heard. That's how it works with every game. Some companies listen to their fans more than others. If a company chooses to ignore the feedback, then they have the right to do it, but that is just going to get those people even more upset and understandably so.
You know, I bet I'm not the only one here who works or used to work in retail. When a customer asked if you had, say, a certain book, "I don't know and I can't say" was most certainly not an acceptable answer. EVER. If I knew, I would tell them. If I didn't know but could look it up on the computer, I did that. If I still couldn't find out, the answer was always, "I don't know, but I will find someone who does." Period.
I would go to my supervisor, and then, if necessary her supervisor to get the answer. That's customer service. It was never acceptable to say, "No, we don't have the complete Shakespeare and I'm tired of your asking." Or to say, "No, we don't have the complete Shakespeare so I think you should buy the complete works of Alan Ginsberg." Or to say, "I can't tell you if we're ever going to have that book." Or to say, "You've been waiting two years to hear if we're going to get that book in? Too bad."
Of course I know a game company is not a bookstore, and I know I'm old-fashioned. But good customer service is universal. You don't act dumb, you don't act coy, you don't bait-and-switch, and you don't prevaricate. You give a truthful answer or you find someone else who can.
From my perspective, they clearly do take forum feedback into account: they added pools and basements, for example. I can think of many examples of content that was requested here making it into the game.
Drake didn't say 'we don't listen to the forums'. I think what she meant may have been that they take the forums into account, but also have to look at information from other sources: youtube videos and comments; twitter; reddit; reviews; and telemetry. Like it or not, the forums only represent a section of the player base. They are trying to get a wider idea of what people want from the game. That doesn't mean they don't listen here. The forums are a great place to explain ]what we want and why it is important, or discuss certain ideas.
I would say that it would be great if all players would come here and explain their thoughts. However, the forums can be a bit of an aggressive environment sometimes and I've heard players saying they don't express their views for fear of being attacked for it.
edit: spelling
But that's the thing. You only need to go to those platforms and look at a few comments to see what most people are requesting at the moment. Pets, Seasons, Generations (toddlers), University are at the top. No one is saying "oh boy, I sure do hope the next EP will be a completely different theme with things that we never had before and never asked for." Like I said, it's fine to give us new things, but sometimes it comes to a point when we need a classic thrown in too. And people are starting to get impatient waiting for those classics. I've noticed that certain posts with announcements on facebook are getting more and more "angry" likes. When they revealed the quarter teaser, it had around 500. And with time it will only get worse. Not to mention all the negativity going around on the comments which are conveniently buried when the team answers only to the handful of positive comments.
Comments
Okay, thanks for asking specifically about Seasons as an example, as that's one of my favourite EPs ever and something that I feel strongly should be incorporated into a life simulation game.
- "What did you not like about Seasons? What did you like?"
For me TS2 seasons didn't really have any drawbacks. I loved how you could customize the seasonal cycle for each neighbourhood. I loved that we got the Outerwear category and that Sims automatically changed into their Outerwear when it was cold enough. I loved that each season came with a specific boost - romance for spring, friends for summer, skills for autumn, and family for winter. This was subtle and didn't overpower your gameplay but enhanced it in small ways. I loved the unique gameplay for each season, and how Sims really interacted with their environment, and that the seasons gave them new ways to interact with each other. Snowball fights and water balloon fights were especially important as they were outdoor activities that could engage multiple Sims at once (something that we're lacking in TS4 - campfires can do this, but you didn't need to buy a special object in TS2 to give your Sims group outdoor activities). But above all, what I loved about Seasons was that it worked in every single story. Everywhere in the world has weather. The elements are there, and the random element (say, rain at a wedding, or lightning in the hot tub) recreates a very real part of life - you don't know what the weather is going to give you on any given day, and it can affect our stories in such subtle ways.
TS3 included most of these features but also added a lot more. For me, this was a double-edged sword as I felt that the seasons overpowered my Sims' lives -- too many days off school, and the festivals never worked for me because of all the lag and few other Sims ever showed up. I ended up giving up on most of the seasonal festivals, and things like the Weatherstone gave my game so much lag that I sometimes regretted I needed all these extra add-ons just to have realistic weather.
- "What new experiences would you like to see from one of your favorite EPs?"
Great question! I think these are some important ingredients for success of a Seasons TS4 pack:
* Build on the Emotions system, but with options. For example, a rainy day may make some Sims happy and some Sims sad. (I personally LOVE rainy days and love to go outside and explore when it's raining, whereas other people I know moan and mope when it's raining outside.) If you could set weather preferences for your Sim in CAS (similar to how in TS3 we could choose favourite foods, music, etc) it would go a long way towards making the Seasons experience in TS4 unique AND enjoyable. (Eg you can choose Like/Neutral/Dislike on all four seasons and pick a favourite and least favourite type of weather.) One of the biggest complaints about the Emotions system I see on the forums is that most Sims react to most things the same way. It would be disappointing if all Sims loved sunshine and got depressed during a thunderstorm, loved summer and hated winter, etc. Seasons would be a great opportunity to diversify Sims' reactions to their environments.
* A few new Traits would go a long way. TS3 did a good job with adding related traits to every new pack, whereas TS4 has lagged behind in that area. The great thing about adding Traits with an EP is that it gives Sims even more ways to relate to new content. I've noticed that the last few traits added since the BG have been much more fleshed out than many of the BG traits, so it would be great if Seasons (or ANY EP) developed this trend.
* Prioritize gameplay that works in as many stories as possible. Simmers like to have as many options as possible for creating their stories, so activities that can work in any place or time (within reason), such as snowball fights, sandcastles, and jumping in puddles, are more important than too many very specific activities that have a limited amount of replayability (such as, I might argue, snowboarding, though I know many Simmers do love those sorts of activities so it's good to include some specific things amidst the general).
* Provide plenty of ways to tie Seasons in to other packs. It would be a crying shame if Seasons had barely any interconnectedness with Outdoor Retreat, for example. While this might be beyond what the team is willing or able to deliver, I would love it if GTW careers were broadened too to include some seasonal activities - Doctors might have more illnesses to treat in winter, Scientists might be able to make special potions in different seasons. The possibilities are endless: Sixam experiences seasonal variation, spas offer special seasonal treatments, restaurants have a few menu items based on seasonal availability of ingredients, Sims get special buffs from the water slide in summer (or winter, if they feel too cold to use it!), etc. Plenty of room for the team to use their imagination and flex their creative muscles there!
* A new career! There are not enough careers available for outdoorsy Sims (especially since Manual Labour is only available to Teens). A career in parks, education (this came with Seasons in TS2), travel... Really, TS2:Seasons came with six new careers. They weren't all related to the weather, either. Seasons is a pack about deepening the immersion.
* A new world! Go wild - the world is full of beautiful places that change with the seasons. From flower viewing in a Japanese town to skiing in a Nordic mountain village, the world is absolutely teeming with inspiration for new Sim experiences to do with seasonal activities. While many players are keenly feeling the need for a new regular world to alleviate the lack of space in our existing worlds, even new vacation worlds would help build on the mechanic introduced in OR.
I hope you can see that I, like many Simmers, want TS4 to include many of the functionalities that we have come to see as fundamental to a life simulation game (weather being the most important for me), while still being open to creative new possibilities that build on what TS4 has been introducing. In general this is the trend that the Sims series has usually followed, bringing freshness to a familiar theme by reinvigorating it with new content that wasn't possible in previous iterations. The desire to see seasons, pets, supernaturals, etc in TS4 isn't a desire to see the team churn out the exact same formula year after year, but to give players the same basic storytelling concepts in new and creative ways.
(And, might I add, please let none of these new features come at the expense of our Sims' relationships, like what seems to have been happening with the steadily mounting issues of culling, relationship culling, and inactive played relationship decay.)
Add Manage Neighbourhood Options - assign your own Sim to NPC jobs!
The Problems with Death in The Sims 4
Distinguish Elder gameplay with Elder-only reward traits
Filter Rugs by Room Size
I'll try not to
I never knew we had so much in common when it comes to things that You like and gameplay style , pretty awesome.
This gives me hope that these features will more likely make it into the game.
Base games are meant to be built upon with the addition of content. As a long time Sims player, buying EPs and Stuff packs was a foregone conclusion if we wanted the game to evolve. Most fans are wondering the same thing about what content was included/ made room for in TS4's base game that made omitting toddlers necessary. Because the base game was quite sparse when it was released. I never expected weather and pets to be included in the base game. That kind of content has always come to us in the form of an EP.
But the core element that made the past games immersive and fun was the inclusion of content that added new game play, and that isn't happening very quickly with TS4. I like the game and stuff packs we have now, but they miss the mark a bit. They don't quite measure up to having a full EP of new content. And holding back on releasing EP3 until the holidays get closer, well, we have been waiting a long time for news so why should we take that thought seriously, either?
While I appreciate the fact SimGuruDrake is very excited about EP3, I just can't bring myself to be excited about something I know nothing about. Is she excited because the EP will suit her style of playing? Or does she think this EP is going to be truly great and appeal to a large audience? Anyway, I am really tired of the gag order everyone at EA has to deal with in regards to telling the fans anything. And I doubt very much I am the only one feeling this way.
And this is what frustrates me. You always say things like this when we give our feedback, "yes, you don't like this, but what about those who like it?", "yes, you want X, but what about the others who want Y?" Ok...? What does that mean exactly? It seems our feedback doesn't matter at all just because someone else might not like it or prefer other things. There are so many threads with well thought out posts explaining why we aren't happy with the game and then all of sudden you say something like how you don't understand why people are upset and why they want this or that. I mean, do you read the posts at all?
I'm on both tumblr and facebook and I see people's reactions when you announce a new pack or when a piece of news/interview comes out. A lot of people's wishes are in sync with the ones in the forum, it just seems like you don't want to see that. Take the facebook posts for example.
And like those there are a ton of other comments with at least 200+ likes asking for toddlers, the old EPs back and how they are tired of SPs. But then those comments get buried once the sims team at facebook starts to answer to all the positive comments and ignores the other ones. I mean doesn't that tell you anything? I could do the same with youtube and it would have the same result. If you can't see what is being asked the most right now, then I don't know what else to tell you to be honest. I know we are only a fraction of the fanbase, but what purpose does the forums and other social media websites serve if you keep turning a blind eye to what most people are asking and so quickly dismiss our requests? I just don't get this mindset at all...
I'm passing through, and it's bothering me enough to answer.
The forums, and other social media for The Sims is mostly so we can share game play and have conversations about the game, get help for it and etc. Feedback is, and has been throughout TS3 and TS4, hit and miss. There's no reason not to leave feedback, just don't expect that they'll act upon it. They have their plan, and often times, their plan doesn't correlate to what we as players would like. The store was the exception to this.
I don't want to put words where they shouldn't be put, but for the sake of argument, what I've read is that we shouldn't expect all the old packs to appear, or if they do, they'll appear in a new way, that we wouldn't expect. That we're just the tip of the iceberg and there are a lot of things to factor in that we don't understand, which I'll accept. I know others won't.
Toddlers. I'm not one who's all bent on getting them back in game, which I'll be the first to admit to. I would, at this stage, assume that they aren't coming back unless and until you are informed otherwise.
Oh, yeah. Don't expect news outside of the quarterly teasers. This doesn't mean that production is shut down, so stop worrying about that. The relevant teams are all hard at work, again, unless and until we're informed otherwise.
Reading this actually made me fangirl squeal!
I loved reading about your current sim - so awesome!
Your description of the Medieval play reminded me of a story I had in TS3 which was kinda Red Riding Hood inspired, with Red being the granddaughter of a powerful witch (and also a powerful witch herself, trained by her grandmother) who goes on a quest through the woods to rescue her childhood friend, who was transformed into a werewolf. I don't play with supernaturals that much, but that was a fun story to play through.
My simblr is Emy the Gamer
Quote: @SimGuruDrake stated the following...
'Here's the thing: The forums are not the end all be all for content ideas. We have to think on a much larger scale than just what people ask for here. You'll notice my own little pattern in my responses here: Think creatively. Think in the mindset of "What new experiences am I looking to add in some of my favorite EPs from the past?" End quote.
Then why do we even have an 'official forum'? I suppose no one was offended by this 'the forums are not the end all be all...comment, but me.
Holly, molly then no need to waste our time in feedback and or in Ideas right? Got it.
I mean who would have thought feedback on the forums wasn't the be all for content and we shouldn't have wasted our breath? How are those focus groups working out by the way? Sales as high as TS2 or TS3? maybe you guys need to rethink that logic, and or maybe learn not to insult players who waste their days complaining in feedback about things missing and or waste their time in Ideas asking you to implement certain things. Maybe, just maybe you guys need to stop listening to happyville over on Reddit and listen to the negative for a change you might make more money. The question is do you want to make thousands or millions? for a EP? gotta love the attitude or people would tell Maxis what they could do.
ETA: And SimGuruDrake it's not up to customers to figure out what they are willing to give up to get something new. I mean we were told this game would run a like butter but less than two years in and relationships had to be culled because the performance was falling apart. Don't put that burden on them that's on you guys for building an engine that will have to remove things (relationships) in order to add things.
Not speaking for anyone else but myself. For me the forum is a place to share what's happening in your game, find answers to problems and bugs, get inspiration from other players. Feedback is important but not my main reason for being here.
1. Sims 4 BG costs around the same amount for much less content and gameplay but I'll give them CAS and build mode but even them the game is still less impressive.
2. I can play those Base games like Sims 2 BG and enjoy myself, I don't feel the need to buy expansions to enjoy the original game.
3. Since sims 4 costs much less than these amazing games with clearly less amd packs keep adding to the cost, I'm waiting to be blown away like I am for those games. Not told what I can't have.
4. In the end it is still a game and while sims 4 has to focus on mechanics like CAS GTA focuses on driving any vehicle available in an open world. GTA' s developers aren't telling their customers because there are night and day cycles or a bugger world they have to give up having a usable ocean.
Face it, no matter how different these games are at the end the non sim games have NPC reacting better to environments amd other things. The games are incredibly well made while Sims 4 BG is a shell of wven a sims game. Emotions are basically the terrible version of moodlets so I see no reasong to have had anything removed for them.
Fun fact, I've spent so much looking at how NPC react and live in Witcher 3 amd enjoyed it far much more than seeing the 20 same sims come to every lot and unreasonable hours. Like a full club at 11am -_- Sims 3 also had more interesting townies and maybe that is because the game wasn't in sunshine town or maybe gamea need an open world to feel complete.
complete forum tutorial
Thank you @MDianaSanders for halloween-fying Golluma
The forums of the original Sims was the place to be to learn and share ideas with Will Wright and the developers. They visited often. Funny how this little game can't spare the time and ignore it's official forums. And funny how sixteen years later, customers are told their ideas and requests should be weighed against what they are willing to give up. Really? Maybe some aren't cut out for public relations.
Bolded emphasis mine. Certainly it could be done if EA would release the base game on discs again. So we would, you know, OWN what we paid for, which would include being able to re-sell it in the future if we didn't want it any more. One of the MANY reasons I refuse to buy TS4 is its tied-to-Origin requirement, and also the reason I refuse to patch TS3 beyond 1.67.
I don't think it's a reflection on @SimGuruDrake, but a fact of the matter. To add, they've not been a place to talk with the dev's for a long time. Talk to each other, yes.
My assumption:
There are limited resources, both of a monetary and an animations bucket (to borrow @SimGuruGraham's phrasing) for each team. If you have a limited resource of both, then eventually, it comes down to a point where you've got to pick and choose what you have in the pack. Too much of one means you've got to take it from somewhere else to even up the balance.
It then comes down to simple fact. To add this feature, what will you take away?
Same old song and dance we have heard since day one, too hard, too expensive, too complicated. No one is to blame for the lack of interest in this game than Maxis. Yes, there are new players and some older players from way back who will buy anything because you know they have their mods to 'fix it' anyway.
But those who have poured their heart out on feedback like @sparkfairy1 and many others including myself were just told 'the forums are not the be all, end all, for ideas'. Wish they had stickied that to the forums on day one we wouldn't have wasted our breath. Or maybe, it's more like those who are supposed to be reporting back to developers are only telling them what they want to hear, and or giving them ideas they want to see instead of what players on the forums are requesting. The attitudes about TS4 are shocking really. And to the OP, fine then if Drake is excited for a new EP, seeing how I wasn't thrilled with GTW, GT or much else in this game, let her play it. Because I doubt I would be getting it because you know anyone with any self respect and or intelligence, was more or less told it's too hard, it' too expensive, it's to complicated, relationships would have to be culled (oh wait they already are) and look forums aren't the place we gather our ideas all that much. Thanks for the Stick it in my eye Maxis, you guys have really become such great public relations gurus, it's more fun to read than playing this game. ETA: Then you wonder why customer service gets an F and EA which should be Maxis should get an F in public relations and help EA gain that coveted Worst Company of the Year award for a third time.
I will say this then I'll be done. Why would you expect anything different? Before the change of forum, ideas and feedback was known as 'The Graveyard' where threads went to die.
I've not long since gotten my 7 year badge. In all the years I have used these forums, I have never known it as the place to go and have free and frank discussions with the devs over your thoughts and ideas. They listen, but acting on it is a different matter. That this isn't the first place they look for ideas over the game is extremely unsurprising, at least to me.
There's no logical reason that would alter now.
Drake didn't say 'we don't listen to the forums'. I think what she meant may have been that they take the forums into account, but also have to look at information from other sources: youtube videos and comments; twitter; reddit; reviews; and telemetry. Like it or not, the forums only represent a section of the player base. They are trying to get a wider idea of what people want from the game. That doesn't mean they don't listen here. The forums are a great place to explain ]what we want and why it is important, or discuss certain ideas.
I would say that it would be great if all players would come here and explain their thoughts. However, the forums can be a bit of an aggressive environment sometimes and I've heard players saying they don't express their views for fear of being attacked for it.
edit: spelling
Well cars aren't the same industry as game s and most gaming companies use their forums to get ideas and feedback.
I'm pretty sure if Ford removed the tires to add a new computer system, nobody would be happy. Even less so if the car constantly breaks down and malfunctions.
complete forum tutorial
Thank you @MDianaSanders for halloween-fying Golluma
That was what people said when I first joined the forum. And yet... We got cows and chickens because we asked for them there. We got restaurants because we asked for them there. We even got a decorative pie with the bakery set because a player asked for one. We got big things and small things because we asked for them in I&F and the Store section.
Even on reddit there are posts about the negatives of TS4. Recent example. It just seems the gurus focus only on the positives and those who are enjoying this new "vision" of theirs. It's really frustrating to hear them say that basically all of our efforts to be heard (by posting our feedback and ideas) is going into the void because the forums "are not the end all be all". Which doesn't even make any sense because all the other websites also have people sharing their disappointment with TS4.
They are not "mostly" for that. They are a place where the fans can come together and share their experiences and opinions about the game, be it positive or negative. When people are unhappy, they go to the social media to try to be heard. That's how it works with every game. Some companies listen to their fans more than others. If a company chooses to ignore the feedback, then they have the right to do it, but that is just going to get those people even more upset and understandably so.
I would go to my supervisor, and then, if necessary her supervisor to get the answer. That's customer service. It was never acceptable to say, "No, we don't have the complete Shakespeare and I'm tired of your asking." Or to say, "No, we don't have the complete Shakespeare so I think you should buy the complete works of Alan Ginsberg." Or to say, "I can't tell you if we're ever going to have that book." Or to say, "You've been waiting two years to hear if we're going to get that book in? Too bad."
Of course I know a game company is not a bookstore, and I know I'm old-fashioned. But good customer service is universal. You don't act dumb, you don't act coy, you don't bait-and-switch, and you don't prevaricate. You give a truthful answer or you find someone else who can.
But that's the thing. You only need to go to those platforms and look at a few comments to see what most people are requesting at the moment. Pets, Seasons, Generations (toddlers), University are at the top. No one is saying "oh boy, I sure do hope the next EP will be a completely different theme with things that we never had before and never asked for." Like I said, it's fine to give us new things, but sometimes it comes to a point when we need a classic thrown in too. And people are starting to get impatient waiting for those classics. I've noticed that certain posts with announcements on facebook are getting more and more "angry" likes. When they revealed the quarter teaser, it had around 500. And with time it will only get worse. Not to mention all the negativity going around on the comments which are conveniently buried when the team answers only to the handful of positive comments.