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the worst thing about City Living - it will sell like hot cakes

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  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 22,420 Member
    GivemeJazz wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    I can't help but feel underwhelmed by the expansion. I don't like how festivals are pretty much 99% main game stuff, how apartments are not buildable at all and you can't place them outside the new city and how this is now the 3rd EP to do mostly with adult living and having a good time. Yet if you go to youtube, people are so overjoyed, if you go to reddit, people can't wait and I can't help but feel disappointed.

    I'm not blaming anyone for liking the game, however if EA can downsize everything, slow the development down and sell it like hot cakes, what will the next iteration be? Why spend time improving future products, if you can limit them down and still sell them?

    When you have game sites speculating sims 5 2 years into the sims 4, you know something is HORRIBLY wrong. I'll give the sims 4 one more year before they stop supporting the game. Sims 4 era is one I would like ERASED from my memory. This era has severely damaged my childhood memories of the sims franchise.

    Yet here you are. :)
    Do more of what makes you happy. 🌞
  • MinkFurMinkFur Posts: 164 Member
    This whole thread is mess. Case in point, let people have their opinions (even if you don't like their opinion or you don't see why they have that opinion). This thread turned into argument into argument :| Learn when to through in the towel, sometimes its best.
  • Sara74469Sara74469 Posts: 512 Member
    Can I just say, I love seeing so many simmers passionate about the game and expansion and defending it. <3
  • MinkFurMinkFur Posts: 164 Member
    SAME @Sara74469 When you look at the bigger picture, the sims franchise has incredibly dedicated fans. Despite all the chaos and arguing, it warms my heart a little :)<3
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,077 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    I'd be perfectly happy if the future was this good, thanks.

    And "objectively" it has features that previous editions didn't have as well as not having some that previous editions have. It is also not an objective matter whether those features are missed: there are many that I, personally, don't miss or am happy to not have; other people will have their own set of subjective preferences around previous games' features. Which features I would like to have again is also a subjective matter. And objectively, they weren't "cut": they were not added. This is a new game, not a recoding of old ones. You can't cut things you don't make in the first place. (Nitpicky, that last point, but it's been bugging me for two years, so I'm finally saying it.)

    well I hope that you don't miss many more things as it progresses into Sims 5 and 6 and 7. After all, why stop at cutting one life stage when you can cut more? Why stop at cutting terrain and create a world tools, if you can also cut the majority of the build mode? After all if you weren't one to make gardens, you won't miss all those trees.

    I don't need a toddler to enjoy family play. I don't need terrain tools to make a good build. And I certainly wouldn't want create a world, for these reasons:

    -Really complicated
    -Not for MAC (it wasn't for MAC in TS3)
    -Comes in a DLC (it came in a DLC for TS3)

    The reason CAW was never available for Macs is because there was never a natively coded version of Sims 3 for Macs; it was actually wrapped inside an emulator called Cider, which proved to be inadequate for handling a game like The Sims 3. The Sims 4 is natively coded for Macs (which is why Mac users had to wait a little longer for Sims 4, or play it on a Boot Camp partition) so that should not be an issue if they ever decided to provide a CAW for Sims 4. At this point I think CAW is highly unlikely, but I've learned in life to never say never because sometimes there are surprises around the corner. B)
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
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  • mannannamannanna Posts: 457 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    So, after looking over this thread, and all of its posts, what, exactly, has been achieved? Because it seems to me like nobody's opinion has changed and people are going around in circles arguing about the same thing, putting forward the same points and getting angry/irate/upset in the process.

    I'm really not sure what the point is. Those who like the game are not going to stop liking it because someone has claimed their opinion is invalid because their explanation for liking it doesn't meet their arbitrary requirements for what is/isn't a good enough explanation, and those who dislike it will continue to insist that they are unequivocally right and those who like it suffer from some sort of cognitive dissonance/subconscious bias/whatever pop psychology/Psychology for Dummies mumbo jumbo they insist on using.

    It really is pathetic, and I'd hate to know what a casual observer would think of this gaming 'community' upon visiting this forum - probably that we're a bunch of lunatics with nothing better to do.

    Thanks for a good laugh :smiley:
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,535 Member
    edited October 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    A lot of people in this topic for some reason think that they need to defend the fact that they like the game. No they do not. Good for them. I'm merely asking what will be EA's incentive to make the next iteration better. Because if you can make a mediocre game and sell many units, what is the point in investing more effort?

    I think this iteration is the best so far. In my opinion, it is not mediocre. What's my incentive to not buy and enjoy it? There is none. I am under no obligation to give up my opinion about the game because someone else disagrees with it.
    I agree. You shouldn't feel bullied about your opinion. I feel the same way I don't give up my subjective opinions just because someone else disagrees with it too. Like you and I don't always agree on things, but it doesn't get in the way of getting to know each other on forums. Sometimes it is just nice if others would accept that there are differences of opinions and get on with their day. It isn't healthy for anyone with the fighting going on. As offensive as the insane trait might be for some, it is nothing compared to the offensive words said towards others especially in this thread. I just wish the Sims community was still a community and not a Romeo and Juliet play. But speaking about I admit I miss our Romeo Colton and Juliet Justine Keaton love story going around. It made the Montague and Capulet story seem accurate of what occurs. I agree with SimGuruDrake too, Simmers shouldn't need to be "demanded to defend their opinions". People will feel how they want to feel and not obligated to explain why all the time. Poor Simmers probably don't need to risk getting carpal tunnel in the process anyways.

    This poll was interesting: http://simsvip.com/2016/10/12/site-news-poll-results-new-poll-october-12th-2016/ I guess it shows people shouldn't feel pressured by others and told that they "hate" the game because in reality, they probably don't. Basically Simmers don't give into peer pressure regardless of how you feel about the Sims 4. Speak for yourself and don't feel a need to defend an opinion especially when forum flame wars go on. You know how you feel and don't need others to tell you how to feel.
    Post edited by Scobre on
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • rudy8292rudy8292 Posts: 3,355 Member
    edited October 2016
    People seem to forget that we are not talking about some indie company or whatever. We are talking about a multi BILLION dollar company producing AAA titles....

    People lowered their expectations SO low, that they can get away with everything nowadays.

    The Sims is a brand, a big one. With a big brand, come expectations. When you create sequels, fans have expectations, for sure when the sequels keep coming and coming...

    The reason why people keep being so critical about The Sims 4, is because they are loyal to a brand, loyal to a game. They want the game to be the best as possible...

    The Sims has MANY different playstyles, so they also should fully support all these playstyles, and cutting corners and just getting rid of important features to corrupt playstyles is not okay.

    It's not a crime to expect more of this game. We are at our 4th iteration......it's okay to have expectations.

    For example; Just because YOU don't like to build, doesn't mean they should just get rid of the building tools too. Just because YOU don't like Toddlers, they shouldn't get rid of them because you don't like them. Just because YOU don't like sandbox play, doesn't mean they should just cut it out.

    I also saw people talking about ''tradeoffs'' because we have a gallery they're okay with no terrain tools because they see that as a tradeoff.. well, WHY do we have to choose between those 2 things? WHY can't we have both?
  • cameronw209cameronw209 Posts: 1,497 Member
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that we are not talking about some indie company or whatever. We are talking about a multi BILLION dollar company producing AAA titles....

    People lowered their expectations SO low, that they can get away with everything nowadays.

    The Sims is a brand, a big one. With a big brand, come expectations. When you create sequels, fans have expectations, for sure when the sequels keep coming and coming...

    The reason why people keep being so critical about The Sims 4, is because they are loyal to a brand, loyal to a game. They want the game to be the best as possible...

    The Sims has MANY different playstyles, so they also should fully support all these playstyles, and cutting corners and just getting rid of important features to corrupt playstyles is not okay.

    It's not a crime to expect more of this game. We are at our 4th iteration......it's okay to have expectations.

    For example; Just because YOU don't like to build, doesn't mean they should just get rid of the building tools too. Just because YOU don't like Toddlers, they shouldn't get rid of them because you don't like them. Just because YOU don't like sandbox play, doesn't mean they should just cut it out.

    I also saw people talking about ''tradeoffs'' because we have a gallery they're okay with no terrain tools because they see that as a tradeoff.. well, WHY do we have to choose between those 2 things? WHY can't we have both?

    Why have you put 'you' in capitals? Who is 'you' anyway? Is there some homogenous group here you're trying to address?

    I know you've stated it's just an example, but like Drake said earlier, there's no reason to blame other fans because the game doesn't meet your expectations.

    The Sims does have many different playstyles and there are going to be even more different playstyles over time as technology improves and people's consuming habits change and become more diverse. The business needs to adjust to that in order to survive and not simply cater to those who are in their comfort zone.

    The Sims 4 attempts to cater to a wide and diverse range of players, because that is the gaming environment now. It's not like it was in 2000, 2004 or even 2009 - whether that's a good or bad thing is not the point I'm trying to make. The point is, I would argue, that it is impossible to cram 16 years of previous expectations into one game that is about imitating an almost infinite amount of possibilities, whilst trying to adapt to an ever-evolving economy of hyper-consumption.

    People have different expectations. While you could consider someone else's expectations too low, they could consider yours too high.
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,189 Member
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    ...
    For example; Just because YOU don't like to build, doesn't mean they should just get rid of the building tools too. Just because YOU don't like Toddlers, they shouldn't get rid of them because you don't like them. Just because YOU don't like sandbox play, doesn't mean they should just cut it out.

    I also saw people talking about ''tradeoffs'' because we have a gallery they're okay with no terrain tools because they see that as a tradeoff.. well, WHY do we have to choose between those 2 things? WHY can't we have both?

    Perhaps they shouldn't, that's not ours to decide anyway. But if I don't like to build, I should tell them so, and why. If I don't like the toddlers, I should tell them so, and why. If I don't like sandbox play, I should tell them so, and why. Then they can act on the collective feedback, and I'll decide whether I'll buy the resulting product or not.

    And if we can have both, I say ditch the terrain tools and put something else I like better. Video games are meant to be fun, not a list with as many bullet points as possible.

    I find it odd when people gives a number of features as an indication of the quality of the game. Because let's face it, how many people on this forum would be happy if culling was gone ? If TS5 is exactly TS4 without culling, according to some people in this thread, it would be objectively smaller than TS4 because it has less features, but would it be worse for you ? (For me, it would because I like culling, but we won't all have the same anwser). Would it be worrying ?
  • Renamed2002180839Renamed2002180839 Posts: 3,444 Member
    lovejess2 wrote: »
    I just like to point out a few things as some who who is a fan of Sims 4 and preordered City Living.

    1. I dont have low standards I have high standards with games so don't go around thinking that because I like a game you hate that must mean there's something wrong with me.

    2. I realize this ep isn't perfect but there haven't been many that were. I like the town and the new skills so much that I believe it's worth the price tag and there are still other things I'm excited about.

    3. I get it you don't like the game but please leave fans out of it. We don't need to constantly tell people why we like the game and I'm sick of being called an EA robot because of it. You have every right to hate the game but I have every right to love it.

    This was just a quick vent after not only getting bullied a couple times but reading so many rude comments all over the place.

    @lovejess2 There's something to this- is it worth the price to a particular individual based on what's included and that's incredibly fluid from person to person. If this pack were twenty dollars rather than forty it's reception would have been much better received. In the end, from my point of view, I decided that what was included- that I did like - was worth a certain price. Others would not agree with that but from my financial point of view (and it seems yours) it is a true statement. I'm still going to complain about what I perceive as a lack, of course. Frankly I'd rather they created far more in depth EPs at a higher cost but I think most people would rather receive less in pack compared to the past (from my point of view) but have the costs remain static.
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 34,918 Member
    edited October 2016
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    I also saw people talking about ''tradeoffs'' because we have a gallery they're okay with no terrain tools because they see that as a tradeoff.. well, WHY do we have to choose between those 2 things? WHY can't we have both?
    Because budgets. You know how companies like EA get and stay big? By not constantly blowing budgets out of the water. I've heard reports this week of two different gaming companies going under. Budgets actually matter.
  • CinderellimouseCinderellimouse Posts: 19,380 Member
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    I also saw people talking about ''tradeoffs'' because we have a gallery they're okay with no terrain tools because they see that as a tradeoff.. well, WHY do we have to choose between those 2 things? WHY can't we have both?
    Because budgets. You know how companies like EA get and stay big? By not constantly blowing budgets out of the water. I've heard reports this week of two different gaming companies going under. Budgets actually matter.

    Stupid budgets. They're the natural enemy of #TeamAllTheThings. *scowls at evil responsible business practices*
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    Because budgets. You know how companies like EA get and stay big? By not constantly blowing budgets out of the water. I've heard reports this week of two different gaming companies going under. Budgets actually matter.

    EA is fairly big and there's a difference between budgeting and being cheap. Somehow these mysterious budgets were not a problem with the last two iterations. TS3 had TWO studios dedicated to it and TS2 could release two expansions a year.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 34,918 Member
    edited October 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Because budgets. You know how companies like EA get and stay big? By not constantly blowing budgets out of the water. I've heard reports this week of two different gaming companies going under. Budgets actually matter.

    EA is fairly big and there's a difference between budgeting and being cheap. Somehow these mysterious budgets were not a problem with the last two iterations. TS3 had TWO studios dedicated to it and TS2 could release two expansions a year.

    Every pack has a budget. That has always been true, and remains true regardless of how many packs you make. (And Sims 3 didn't have GPs - we don't actually have less overall, it's just shaped differently - and had issues with coordination between EP teams. This has been described to us by one of the SimGurus.)

    I get that people want All The Things. I get that they want more packs. But there are realities of business that you can't just wish away and that apply to companies of all sizes. Just because you're big doesn't mean you don't need to keep making enough money to pay people, whether that's because you produced more stuff than you can sell enough of or because you spent more on development than you can make back.

    For the record: I worked at one point for a huge company. Decidedly bigger than EA. My entire division got cut: the market wouldn't support what we were doing. Big doesn't mean you don't answer to the market.
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    edited October 2016
    I get that people want All The Things. I get that they want more packs. But there are realities of business that you can't just wish away and that apply to companies of all sizes. Just because you're big doesn't mean you don't need to keep making enough money to pay people, whether that's because you produced more stuff than you can sell enough of or because you spent more on development than you can make back.

    then you rethink your strategy and reevaluate what people you need and what you don't. I've seen MMOs with 3 month update cycle (huge updates mind you) run on a 40 man team. They work hard. I've seen 200 people companies sit with fingers up their bum. EA is either spending a lot of resources where they shouldn't be, downsized for milking the franchise, or have a lot of people not doing that much.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 34,918 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    I get that people want All The Things. I get that they want more packs. But there are realities of business that you can't just wish away and that apply to companies of all sizes. Just because you're big doesn't mean you don't need to keep making enough money to pay people, whether that's because you produced more stuff than you can sell enough of or because you spent more on development than you can make back.

    then you rethink your strategy and reevaluate what people you need and what you don't. I've seen MMOs with 3 month update cycle (huge updates mind you) run on a 40 man team. They work hard. I've seen 200 people companies sit with fingers up their bum. EA is either spending a lot of resources where they shouldn't be, downsized for milking the franchise, or have a lot of people not doing that much.

    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.

    monthly update cycle that has for the most part consisted of EXP events and yearly reused mini events like "collect all the eggs". Ghosts and pools were huge updates. If we got updates like that monthly I would understand.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 34,918 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.

    monthly update cycle that has for the most part consisted of EXP events and yearly reused mini events like "collect all the eggs". Ghosts and pools were huge updates. If we got updates like that monthly I would understand.

    So were the lighting updates and the gender options. We got both those this calendar year, a month apart from each other - and those didn't smell like not-ready-on-time basegame content, either.

    I know you don't like the game, but in the last 12 months we've had:
    - a very well-received EP (last I checked, only one Sims 3 EP and only one Sims 2 EP rated higher than Get Together on Metacritic in user ratings)
    - one very well-received GP (Dine Out is the highest-rated-by-users Sims product on Metacritic since Sims 2 OFB)
    - 4 Stuff Packs which include gameplay objects, including the highly praised Kids Stuff
    - 3 major free updates: a 64-bit version of the game; a significant lighting upgrade for users on higher-end systems; a widely recognized, gutsy gender options system
    - 3 patched-in (free) NPCs
    - 3 time-limited activities

    Those are facts. The content cycle is heavy, even if it's not shaped the way you're used to it being shaped or the way other franchises shape their updates.
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    edited October 2016
    A GP where you can't work as anything besides a restaurant manager, because let's forget that perhaps some of us wanted to cook or wait in it, an EP that was 70% one feature that encouraged playing with base content some more, a very powerful storytelling tool, however the EP itself was fairly empty.
    As far as updates go, you can't exactly play with the 64bit, or the lighting update and the gender patch was so controversial, that you couldn't discuss it on the forums because the forums are rated teen. They also did it for the publicity only, because if they weren't just seeking publicity we would have had toddlers before the gender patch.

    And I really wish they stopped it with the never ending stuffpacks.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 34,918 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    A GP where you can't work as anything besides a restaurant manager, because let's forget that perhaps some of us wanted to cook or wait in it, an EP that was 70% one feature that encouraged playing with base content some more, a very powerful storytelling tool, however the EP itself was fairly empty.
    As far as updates go, you can't exactly play with the 64bit, or the lighting update and the gender patch was so controversial, that you couldn't discuss it on the forums because the forums are rated teen. They also did it for the publicity only, because if they weren't just seeking publicity we would have had toddlers before the gender patch.

    And I really wish they stopped it with the never ending stuffpacks.

    Yes, the GP does not have All The Things that everyone wants in it. There is no such thing as a game or add-on that does. That's only possible if you like watching the companies that make your toys go out of business.

    The gender patch was widely discussed on the forums. Your fact is wrong there. And the idea that they provided the ability for people who could never make or play as themselves in a game to do so for the first time ever... for publicity?? That says more about you than about the company.

    And on that note, I'm done with this conversation, or any other conversation with you. Someone else can correct your lies, misunderstandings about how business works, and fallacies.
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    Yes, the GP does not have All The Things that everyone wants in it. There is no such thing as a game or add-on that does. That's only possible if you like watching the companies that make your toys go out of business.

    you're making a game pack that is focused on nothing but restaurants and you can't put waiting and cooking for it in when an expansion 10 years ago implemented this as a side feature? Really? They can no longer do what they did a decade ago when they get to focus on JUST that?
    The gender patch was widely discussed on the forums.

    the gender patch discussions were widely shut down on the forums, I still have some videos with all of the comments photographed, including quite a few that closed threads, saying that it's an inappropriate topic to discuss in a teen rated forum. If you had anything bad to say about it, you were pretty much banned off here.
    Your fact is wrong there. And the idea that they provided the ability for people who could never make or play as themselves in a game to do so for the first time ever... for publicity?

    if you compare how much asked for gender patch and how much asked for toddlers, then yes. They prioritized what makes good press instead of what would have satisfied a very vocal majority.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • itsugitsug Posts: 1,613 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    A GP where you can't work as anything besides a restaurant manager, because let's forget that perhaps some of us wanted to cook or wait in it, an EP that was 70% one feature that encouraged playing with base content some more, a very powerful storytelling tool, however the EP itself was fairly empty.
    As far as updates go, you can't exactly play with the 64bit, or the lighting update and the gender patch was so controversial, that you couldn't discuss it on the forums because the forums are rated teen. They also did it for the publicity only, because if they weren't just seeking publicity we would have had toddlers before the gender patch.

    And I really wish they stopped it with the never ending stuffpacks.
    • Both 64-bit and lighting update made the game great for me, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
    • If you dont want the "never ending" stuffpacks, then dont buy them.
    I found most of the stuff packs in S3 pointless and expensive, and they still are. (30$ for some more stuff with no gameplay, really?)
    The stuff packs in S4 on the other hand have all given us new gameplay for under 10$ is much more like it. :)
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  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,189 Member
    Toddlers and gender patch, that got me thinking we'll have so many choices for hair and clothes when they'll come :love: It's going to be so cute !
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