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the worst thing about City Living - it will sell like hot cakes

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  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    edited October 2016
    Neia wrote: »
    Toddlers and gender patch, that got me thinking we'll have so many choices for hair and clothes when they'll come :love: It's going to be so cute !

    we're 2 years in with people begging for them and the only responses so far where "we're going to talk about it" and "complaints have an expiry date" and you still hope for them to come?

    Though talking about weird prioritization, why they prioritized the tragic clown over let's say a firefighter I really don't get O_o
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,189 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Toddlers and gender patch, that got me thinking we'll have so many choices for hair and clothes when they'll come :love: It's going to be so cute !

    we're 2 years in with people begging for them and the only responses so far where "we're going to talk about it" and "complaints have an expiry date" and you still hope for them to come?

    Though talking about weird prioritization, why they prioritized the tragic clown over let's say a firefighter I really don't get O_o

    Yes, I think they'll come. And I think they are going to be awesome !
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Toddlers and gender patch, that got me thinking we'll have so many choices for hair and clothes when they'll come :love: It's going to be so cute !

    we're 2 years in with people begging for them and the only responses so far where "we're going to talk about it" and "complaints have an expiry date" and you still hope for them to come?

    Though talking about weird prioritization, why they prioritized the tragic clown over let's say a firefighter I really don't get O_o

    Yes, I think they'll come. And I think they are going to be awesome !

    well we'll see at the end of this game's lifespan, but after developers getting angry with people asking for them repeatedly and saying "complaints have an expiration date" I would really stop hoping.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • Renamed2002180839Renamed2002180839 Posts: 3,444 Member
    edited October 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    A GP where you can't work as anything besides a restaurant manager, because let's forget that perhaps some of us wanted to cook or wait in it, an EP that was 70% one feature that encouraged playing with base content some more, a very powerful storytelling tool, however the EP itself was fairly empty.
    As far as updates go, you can't exactly play with the 64bit, or the lighting update and the gender patch was so controversial, that you couldn't discuss it on the forums because the forums are rated teen. They also did it for the publicity only, because if they weren't just seeking publicity we would have had toddlers before the gender patch.

    And I really wish they stopped it with the never ending stuffpacks.

    Yes, the GP does not have All The Things that everyone wants in it. There is no such thing as a game or add-on that does. That's only possible if you like watching the companies that make your toys go out of business.

    The gender patch was widely discussed on the forums. Your fact is wrong there. And the idea that they provided the ability for people who could never make or play as themselves in a game to do so for the first time ever... for publicity?? That says more about you than about the company.

    And on that note, I'm done with this conversation, or any other conversation with you. Someone else can correct your lies, misunderstandings about how business works, and fallacies.

    You both have valid points which is what makes arriving at a definitive conclusion difficult with this iteration.

    The EPs do seem/are light compared to the past and management decisions at EA/Maxis have led to packs that stopped short of ideal for a large number of people- it's true. It's also true that EPs have not increased in price, nor really have GPs which I just consider the old Sims 3 Store Venues. Without a price increase there are going to be production decreases. While I don't think EA is in any danger (AS IN ZERO) of going out of business I do think they are not going to sacrifice profit percentage from one iteration to the next. Are people prepared to pay fifty- sixty dollars for an EP/ thirty dollars for a GP? If so, I think we would receive a better product.

    We have received a lot of updates- some free/ some paid for when the base game was purchased in a grossly unfinished state- let's not forget that. Pools/Ghosts/Basements and much else should have been there in September 2014 AND yes, the Gender Neutral patch was released WHEN IT WAS for publicity. It was created simply because I think many people had asked for the option but I think it was released before it was truly ready due to the news surrounding the issue and to play off that.

    And on and on with the other points you two (EDIT: AND EVERYONE ELSE, myself included) have been debating...

    EA really dropped the ball when developing Olympus and they been fumbling with it ever since trying to get it into play. The truth is it's both good and bad. The truth is their base is so wide and diverse that it's near impossible at this point to satisfy everyone and I think in their attempts to try and give everyone a "little" something they are doing their base and themselves a disservice. Sure, there's at least a little something for everyone in CL and a lot of people will buy it for the small pieces they like BUT then they'll be unhappy in a month when the newness wears off just like we've seen this entire two years (AND NO I don't mean absolutely everybody- if you don't feel this way then I don't mean you). So, what are EA/Maxis to do? Raise prices? Target Expansion Packs clearly and exclusively on single themes that a sizable percentage of their base won't want and most likely won't buy? Increase production at risk of saturation. I don't know. The game is okay- it doesn't have to be great to be playable, it doesn't have to be epic to sell and both sides of this issue are correct in how they feel.

  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,189 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Toddlers and gender patch, that got me thinking we'll have so many choices for hair and clothes when they'll come :love: It's going to be so cute !

    we're 2 years in with people begging for them and the only responses so far where "we're going to talk about it" and "complaints have an expiry date" and you still hope for them to come?

    Though talking about weird prioritization, why they prioritized the tragic clown over let's say a firefighter I really don't get O_o

    Yes, I think they'll come. And I think they are going to be awesome !

    well we'll see at the end of this game's lifespan, but after developers getting angry with people asking for them repeatedly and saying "complaints have an expiration date" I would really stop hoping.

    I think toddlers are mentionned often enough to not fall out of the radar. But indeed, we'll see at the end of this game's lifespan.
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 22,018 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    Toddlers and gender patch, that got me thinking we'll have so many choices for hair and clothes when they'll come :love: It's going to be so cute !

    Positive thinking!
    Do more of what makes you happy. 🌞
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.

    monthly update cycle that has for the most part consisted of EXP events and yearly reused mini events like "collect all the eggs". Ghosts and pools were huge updates. If we got updates like that monthly I would understand.

    So were the lighting updates and the gender options.
    Just wanna jump in and say I hate this update.

    They said it would not be forced on players, and while it may seem nitpicky, there are a number of clothing items or hairstyles that are treated as "gender neutral" that were designed for one gender in particular, and they look AWFUL on the opposing gender. Graphical glitches where hair has bald spots, pants that look comically oversized on women, weird inconsistencies with textures, etc. Those really bother me just because they take me out of the game and remind me it's a game, and yes, these gender neutral clothing sets and hairstyles DO pop up on NPCs.

    I feel like that update was made more with the intention of garnering free press (transgender issues being very topical when that was released) and less so because it was wildly demanded. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some people loved it because it was something for them, but for me...?

    I look at that update and I think "why didn't you include this on release?" If it had been done on release, then I wouldn't have issue with it because we wouldn't have these subpar clothing texture issues and they'd still get their free press and certains fans would still be super happy. They missed that train though and did a rather sub-par patch-in that's resulted in myself and a friend I talk to both having a couple townies that annoy us because they either have clothes with weird textures or in her case, she has a dude walking around town in high heels (guess one of the female shoes slipped through...?).

    But all I can think is....both transgender options and toddlers were not included on release, both could be patched in at a later date. Did they bother patching in toddlers, a feature that 80% of their customers have probably requested and a feature that has existed since Sims 2...? No, they patched in transgender sims, a feature that quite frankly, a rather small minority benefits from, and again it feels like had transgender issues not been a hot button issue at the time, it would not have happened. I feel free press drove the decision to include a feature, and again, THAT alarms me. I would much rather have development be based around a process of "ok so fans want this, this is doable and within budget, so let's do it" rather than "ok so this will get us free press and up sales, let's do this."

    Granted, I have no evidence that this was the motivation and I do wanna be clear about that in fairness. However, I also do think it's important I voice that EA employees have repeatedly told us "we're listening," yet here we are on expansion pack 3 and I'm simply not seeing most of the common requests by users being fulfilled. I see plenty of requests to flesh out family play, plenty of requests to include toddlers and plenty of requests for Pets and Seasons. While I can understand fully if Pets and Seasons are simply planned as later expansions (rumors and surveys they've done would suggest Pets could very well be EP4 or 5) and they don't want to bump those up in their schedule despite hearing requests, I do have to question if toddlers for example is repeatedly glossed over/delayed/ignored since it would likely be a free feature in a patch, not an EP selling point. I just find it rather odd how different the common requests look from the actual releases we've received, with Kids stuff feeling like the only attempt to address such concerns at all. (and I wanna clarify, I'm not even a family fan, I just think the path to a worthwhile gaming experience involves a company catering to the majority) Given that, yes, I am absolutely gonna to be skeptical of intentions behind certain releases.

    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,895 Member
    All this thread literally is, is a few certain simmers trying to shame people for liking Sims 4. Im looking forward to city living, only complaints are lack of life state and no buildable apartments. I still don't think it's half baked or missing features. Apparently it's okay for Sims 3 to have horrible half baked features, or even an entire expansion pack that only works in one world that barely even functions if you're lucky, but it's not okay to have 1 lack of apartments.

    I am excited for City Living, I will be purchasing City living, I will be purchasing future content. I do not think Sims 4 is half bake, and I'm not defending that just to feed someones ego, get over it.


    Edit; just comparing Sims 3 retail, spas and restaurants to Sims 4 is a complete joke. They were all rabbit holes for one unless you got the store pack.

    Kids couldn't even dine out, the restaurants were always dead, the chef was also the waiter and food magically poofed ready in seconds from an enchanted oven.

    There were no restocking fees, you could only sell furniture In the catalogue (no crafts), and any sim could EASILY be convinced to buy anything.

    I am tired of people looking for every chance to put down the Sims 4 and not even remembering basic stuff like children not even being able to play instruments or go out to a RESTAURANT and try to say Sims 4 does everything worse. Almost every item Sims 4 has been better than Sims 3. DJ booths have waay more songs, karaoke has more songs and duets, chocolate fountain comas with other juices, ice-cream maker comes with around 35 flavors compared to Sims 3's like 5 ice-cream flavors. And everything has been soo much better priced too.
    Agree, but in my opinion the sims 2 had best restaurant system (can't have your playabke sim be chef/waiter, some players have reported it takes 2 hours for order to be served in SMALL dinners ect.).
    NNpYlHF.jpg
  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,895 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    I think this iteration is the best so far. In my opinion, it is not mediocre. What's my incentive to not buy and enjoy it? There is none. I am under no obligation to give up my opinion about the game because someone else disagrees with it.

    No, you're not. Just don't expect the future to be any better. And you can subjectively think that this iteration is better. However objectively over 200 features were cut when comparing to previous iterations.

    I'd be perfectly happy if the future was this good, thanks.

    And "objectively" it has features that previous editions didn't have as well as not having some that previous editions have. It is also not an objective matter whether those features are missed: there are many that I, personally, don't miss or am happy to not have; other people will have their own set of subjective preferences around previous games' features. Which features I would like to have again is also a subjective matter. And objectively, they weren't "cut": they were not added. This is a new game, not a recoding of old ones. You can't cut things you don't make in the first place. (Nitpicky, that last point, but it's been bugging me for two years, so I'm finally saying it.)

    "This is a new game, not a recoding of old one". Funny, as the least thing I expect is to have something from the game if not features returning from previous, but at least get something actually NEW that gives it the applause for being The Sims 4 and not what it is today - a completely new game/nerf spin-off or whatever it is. Emotions mechanic to me personally doesn't impact me on that much for having any interest in it (unlike how i am friends with cas and build mode)-- it is nothing more than just a label for my sims and animations that are changed upon the label my sim has.
    NNpYlHF.jpg
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,088 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.

    monthly update cycle that has for the most part consisted of EXP events and yearly reused mini events like "collect all the eggs". Ghosts and pools were huge updates. If we got updates like that monthly I would understand.

    So were the lighting updates and the gender options.
    Just wanna jump in and say I hate this update.

    They said it would not be forced on players, and while it may seem nitpicky, there are a number of clothing items or hairstyles that are treated as "gender neutral" that were designed for one gender in particular, and they look AWFUL on the opposing gender. Graphical glitches where hair has bald spots, pants that look comically oversized on women, weird inconsistencies with textures, etc. Those really bother me just because they take me out of the game and remind me it's a game, and yes, these gender neutral clothing sets and hairstyles DO pop up on NPCs.

    I feel like that update was made more with the intention of garnering free press (transgender issues being very topical when that was released) and less so because it was wildly demanded. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some people loved it because it was something for them, but for me...?

    I look at that update and I think "why didn't you include this on release?" If it had been done on release, then I wouldn't have issue with it because we wouldn't have these subpar clothing texture issues and they'd still get their free press and certains fans would still be super happy. They missed that train though and did a rather sub-par patch-in that's resulted in myself and a friend I talk to both having a couple townies that annoy us because they either have clothes with weird textures or in her case, she has a dude walking around town in high heels (guess one of the female shoes slipped through...?).

    But all I can think is....both transgender options and toddlers were not included on release, both could be patched in at a later date. Did they bother patching in toddlers, a feature that 80% of their customers have probably requested and a feature that has existed since Sims 2...? No, they patched in transgender sims, a feature that quite frankly, a rather small minority benefits from, and again it feels like had transgender issues not been a hot button issue at the time, it would not have happened. I feel free press drove the decision to include a feature, and again, THAT alarms me. I would much rather have development be based around a process of "ok so fans want this, this is doable and within budget, so let's do it" rather than "ok so this will get us free press and up sales, let's do this."

    Granted, I have no evidence that this was the motivation and I do wanna be clear about that in fairness. However, I also do think it's important I voice that EA employees have repeatedly told us "we're listening," yet here we are on expansion pack 3 and I'm simply not seeing most of the common requests by users being fulfilled. I see plenty of requests to flesh out family play, plenty of requests to include toddlers and plenty of requests for Pets and Seasons. While I can understand fully if Pets and Seasons are simply planned as later expansions (rumors and surveys they've done would suggest Pets could very well be EP4 or 5) and they don't want to bump those up in their schedule despite hearing requests, I do have to question if toddlers for example is repeatedly glossed over/delayed/ignored since it would likely be a free feature in a patch, not an EP selling point. I just find it rather odd how different the common requests look from the actual releases we've received, with Kids stuff feeling like the only attempt to address such concerns at all. (and I wanna clarify, I'm not even a family fan, I just think the path to a worthwhile gaming experience involves a company catering to the majority) Given that, yes, I am absolutely gonna to be skeptical of intentions behind certain releases.

    bolded part: Absolutely true. They released that patch right before June, which is Pride Month in the US.

    I have zero issues with the options being there, but the gender variations are incredibly bad. If they were implementing these as a sincere gesture, they would have kept them in development until the meshes + textures were fixed. Last I checked, all male bottoms have a major 'cave in' in the pelvis on female sims. How did that get past their QA team?
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,002 Member
    edited October 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    I can't help but feel underwhelmed by the expansion. I don't like how festivals are pretty much 99% main game stuff, how apartments are not buildable at all and you can't place them outside the new city and how this is now the 3rd EP to do mostly with adult living and having a good time. Yet if you go to youtube, people are so overjoyed, if you go to reddit, people can't wait and I can't help but feel disappointed.

    I'm not blaming anyone for liking the game, however if EA can downsize everything, slow the development down and sell it like hot cakes, what will the next iteration be? Why spend time improving future products, if you can limit them down and still sell them?

    Underwhelmed is a good description. Here is one thing I know would make me annoyed if I sent my Sim out to buy from one of those food vendors and they suddenly left and packed up their kiosk. I saw that in one of the trailers and I was like oh, heck, no. I'm not liking things popping in and out just as your Sim was ready to eat. Like some sort of 'magic' here now, gone a second later, though they were queued up to eat.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • sunman502sunman502 Posts: 18,298 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.

    monthly update cycle that has for the most part consisted of EXP events and yearly reused mini events like "collect all the eggs". Ghosts and pools were huge updates. If we got updates like that monthly I would understand.

    So were the lighting updates and the gender options.
    Just wanna jump in and say I hate this update.

    They said it would not be forced on players, and while it may seem nitpicky, there are a number of clothing items or hairstyles that are treated as "gender neutral" that were designed for one gender in particular, and they look AWFUL on the opposing gender. Graphical glitches where hair has bald spots, pants that look comically oversized on women, weird inconsistencies with textures, etc. Those really bother me just because they take me out of the game and remind me it's a game, and yes, these gender neutral clothing sets and hairstyles DO pop up on NPCs.

    I feel like that update was made more with the intention of garnering free press (transgender issues being very topical when that was released) and less so because it was wildly demanded. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some people loved it because it was something for them, but for me...?

    I look at that update and I think "why didn't you include this on release?" If it had been done on release, then I wouldn't have issue with it because we wouldn't have these subpar clothing texture issues and they'd still get their free press and certains fans would still be super happy. They missed that train though and did a rather sub-par patch-in that's resulted in myself and a friend I talk to both having a couple townies that annoy us because they either have clothes with weird textures or in her case, she has a dude walking around town in high heels (guess one of the female shoes slipped through...?).

    But all I can think is....both transgender options and toddlers were not included on release, both could be patched in at a later date. Did they bother patching in toddlers, a feature that 80% of their customers have probably requested and a feature that has existed since Sims 2...? No, they patched in transgender sims, a feature that quite frankly, a rather small minority benefits from, and again it feels like had transgender issues not been a hot button issue at the time, it would not have happened. I feel free press drove the decision to include a feature, and again, THAT alarms me. I would much rather have development be based around a process of "ok so fans want this, this is doable and within budget, so let's do it" rather than "ok so this will get us free press and up sales, let's do this."

    Granted, I have no evidence that this was the motivation and I do wanna be clear about that in fairness. However, I also do think it's important I voice that EA employees have repeatedly told us "we're listening," yet here we are on expansion pack 3 and I'm simply not seeing most of the common requests by users being fulfilled. I see plenty of requests to flesh out family play, plenty of requests to include toddlers and plenty of requests for Pets and Seasons. While I can understand fully if Pets and Seasons are simply planned as later expansions (rumors and surveys they've done would suggest Pets could very well be EP4 or 5) and they don't want to bump those up in their schedule despite hearing requests, I do have to question if toddlers for example is repeatedly glossed over/delayed/ignored since it would likely be a free feature in a patch, not an EP selling point. I just find it rather odd how different the common requests look from the actual releases we've received, with Kids stuff feeling like the only attempt to address such concerns at all. (and I wanna clarify, I'm not even a family fan, I just think the path to a worthwhile gaming experience involves a company catering to the majority) Given that, yes, I am absolutely gonna to be skeptical of intentions behind certain releases.

    bolded part: Absolutely true. They released that patch right before June, which is Pride Month in the US.

    I have zero issues with the options being there, but the gender variations are incredibly bad. If they were implementing these as a sincere gesture, they would have kept them in development until the meshes + textures were fixed. Last I checked, all male bottoms have a major 'cave in' in the pelvis on female sims. How did that get past their QA team?
    And not only that, if you were to look at a sim's upper torso from the side. You will note that the upper curve in the sim's upper back sticks out much to far. How that got past QA is a really big mystery.
  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2016
    The gender-neutral patch was definitely poorly implemented, I'll admit that. It's a good idea in theory but they should have spent longer on it.

    Also, it's objective to say that features have been removed from TS4, but we're all different in our priorities. A lot of the missing features were never particularly important to me, and I still play TS3 so I can always get my fix from that game if I want to (though as things currently stand I've played TS4 more than TS3 on my new laptop).


  • starcrunchstarcrunch Posts: 672 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.

    monthly update cycle that has for the most part consisted of EXP events and yearly reused mini events like "collect all the eggs". Ghosts and pools were huge updates. If we got updates like that monthly I would understand.

    So were the lighting updates and the gender options.
    Just wanna jump in and say I hate this update.

    They said it would not be forced on players, and while it may seem nitpicky, there are a number of clothing items or hairstyles that are treated as "gender neutral" that were designed for one gender in particular, and they look AWFUL on the opposing gender. Graphical glitches where hair has bald spots, pants that look comically oversized on women, weird inconsistencies with textures, etc. Those really bother me just because they take me out of the game and remind me it's a game, and yes, these gender neutral clothing sets and hairstyles DO pop up on NPCs.

    I feel like that update was made more with the intention of garnering free press (transgender issues being very topical when that was released) and less so because it was wildly demanded. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some people loved it because it was something for them, but for me...?

    I look at that update and I think "why didn't you include this on release?" If it had been done on release, then I wouldn't have issue with it because we wouldn't have these subpar clothing texture issues and they'd still get their free press and certains fans would still be super happy. They missed that train though and did a rather sub-par patch-in that's resulted in myself and a friend I talk to both having a couple townies that annoy us because they either have clothes with weird textures or in her case, she has a dude walking around town in high heels (guess one of the female shoes slipped through...?).

    But all I can think is....both transgender options and toddlers were not included on release, both could be patched in at a later date. Did they bother patching in toddlers, a feature that 80% of their customers have probably requested and a feature that has existed since Sims 2...? No, they patched in transgender sims, a feature that quite frankly, a rather small minority benefits from, and again it feels like had transgender issues not been a hot button issue at the time, it would not have happened. I feel free press drove the decision to include a feature, and again, THAT alarms me. I would much rather have development be based around a process of "ok so fans want this, this is doable and within budget, so let's do it" rather than "ok so this will get us free press and up sales, let's do this."

    Granted, I have no evidence that this was the motivation and I do wanna be clear about that in fairness. However, I also do think it's important I voice that EA employees have repeatedly told us "we're listening," yet here we are on expansion pack 3 and I'm simply not seeing most of the common requests by users being fulfilled. I see plenty of requests to flesh out family play, plenty of requests to include toddlers and plenty of requests for Pets and Seasons. While I can understand fully if Pets and Seasons are simply planned as later expansions (rumors and surveys they've done would suggest Pets could very well be EP4 or 5) and they don't want to bump those up in their schedule despite hearing requests, I do have to question if toddlers for example is repeatedly glossed over/delayed/ignored since it would likely be a free feature in a patch, not an EP selling point. I just find it rather odd how different the common requests look from the actual releases we've received, with Kids stuff feeling like the only attempt to address such concerns at all. (and I wanna clarify, I'm not even a family fan, I just think the path to a worthwhile gaming experience involves a company catering to the majority) Given that, yes, I am absolutely gonna to be skeptical of intentions behind certain releases.

    Sounds a lot like you're suggesting those "others" should learn to wait their turn so you can have your way as part of the dominant group. You include a statistic to suggest a minority group shouldn't receive representation so that more resources can be devoted to the majority (you receive bonus points for making that statistic up out of thin air after already being asked not to do that). You probably don't realize how utterly entitled this sounds, but I suggest you check out the response of some of the LGBTQ players for a different perspective on what this patch meant. As for myself I appreciate that I have a trans sim now and that many of the rest of my sims, can now look and dress closer to how I imagined them.
    OriginID: CrunchedStars
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    starcrunch wrote: »
    Sounds a lot like you're suggesting those "others" should learn to wait their turn so you can have your way as part of the dominant group.

    are you suggesting that pleasing 4% of players earlier should be more of a priority than for example pleasing 40% of the players?
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,002 Member
    edited October 2016
    starcrunch wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    We have a monthly update cycle. It's just not all EP-shaped.

    monthly update cycle that has for the most part consisted of EXP events and yearly reused mini events like "collect all the eggs". Ghosts and pools were huge updates. If we got updates like that monthly I would understand.

    So were the lighting updates and the gender options.
    Just wanna jump in and say I hate this update.

    They said it would not be forced on players, and while it may seem nitpicky, there are a number of clothing items or hairstyles that are treated as "gender neutral" that were designed for one gender in particular, and they look AWFUL on the opposing gender. Graphical glitches where hair has bald spots, pants that look comically oversized on women, weird inconsistencies with textures, etc. Those really bother me just because they take me out of the game and remind me it's a game, and yes, these gender neutral clothing sets and hairstyles DO pop up on NPCs.

    I feel like that update was made more with the intention of garnering free press (transgender issues being very topical when that was released) and less so because it was wildly demanded. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some people loved it because it was something for them, but for me...?

    I look at that update and I think "why didn't you include this on release?" If it had been done on release, then I wouldn't have issue with it because we wouldn't have these subpar clothing texture issues and they'd still get their free press and certains fans would still be super happy. They missed that train though and did a rather sub-par patch-in that's resulted in myself and a friend I talk to both having a couple townies that annoy us because they either have clothes with weird textures or in her case, she has a dude walking around town in high heels (guess one of the female shoes slipped through...?).

    But all I can think is....both transgender options and toddlers were not included on release, both could be patched in at a later date. Did they bother patching in toddlers, a feature that 80% of their customers have probably requested and a feature that has existed since Sims 2...? No, they patched in transgender sims, a feature that quite frankly, a rather small minority benefits from, and again it feels like had transgender issues not been a hot button issue at the time, it would not have happened. I feel free press drove the decision to include a feature, and again, THAT alarms me. I would much rather have development be based around a process of "ok so fans want this, this is doable and within budget, so let's do it" rather than "ok so this will get us free press and up sales, let's do this."

    Granted, I have no evidence that this was the motivation and I do wanna be clear about that in fairness. However, I also do think it's important I voice that EA employees have repeatedly told us "we're listening," yet here we are on expansion pack 3 and I'm simply not seeing most of the common requests by users being fulfilled. I see plenty of requests to flesh out family play, plenty of requests to include toddlers and plenty of requests for Pets and Seasons. While I can understand fully if Pets and Seasons are simply planned as later expansions (rumors and surveys they've done would suggest Pets could very well be EP4 or 5) and they don't want to bump those up in their schedule despite hearing requests, I do have to question if toddlers for example is repeatedly glossed over/delayed/ignored since it would likely be a free feature in a patch, not an EP selling point. I just find it rather odd how different the common requests look from the actual releases we've received, with Kids stuff feeling like the only attempt to address such concerns at all. (and I wanna clarify, I'm not even a family fan, I just think the path to a worthwhile gaming experience involves a company catering to the majority) Given that, yes, I am absolutely gonna to be skeptical of intentions behind certain releases.

    Sounds a lot like you're suggesting those "others" should learn to wait their turn so you can have your way as part of the dominant group. You include a statistic to suggest a minority group shouldn't receive representation so that more resources can be devoted to the majority (you receive bonus points for making that statistic up out of thin air after already being asked not to do that). You probably don't realize how utterly entitled this sounds, but I suggest you check out the response of some of the LGBTQ players for a different perspective on what this patch meant. As for myself I appreciate that I have a trans sim now and that many of the rest of my sims, can now look and dress closer to how I imagined them.

    I don't think anyone is saying that. But the focus of this took six months when people were actually demanding or requesting and begging for other stuff (mainly toddlers and to overhaul the emotions/trait system). The focus is what is important to everyone not a majority issue or a minority issue. I mean sometime we expect pets or seasons don't we? But if they don't put the focus toward those things, and say spend six months on something else no one was really writing petitions over even before game came out, you have to wonder if it wasn't just a press op.

    The players are vocal on all sides of anything but you have to wonder why they didn't set the game up from the beginning (if they talked about it before the game was even released) to have the ability to do this smoothly and shortly without all the glitches if it wasn't a photo op. ETA: In other words I feel if this was really important it would have been designed from the beginning for meshes to work smoothly from the start, and not thrown together and a mess and took six months, just because it gave the game a shot in the arm.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • starcrunchstarcrunch Posts: 672 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    starcrunch wrote: »
    Sounds a lot like you're suggesting those "others" should learn to wait their turn so you can have your way as part of the dominant group.

    are you suggesting that pleasing 4% of players earlier should be more of a priority than for example pleasing 40% of the players?

    No I'm suggesting that after waiting decades for a major developer to acknowledge that they exist and provide content that reflects their lives, those of us that have the privilege of having almost every game of the art form directed at our lives our quite well represented. Almost everything in the gaming universe is targeted to my lifestyle and so I don't feel entitled to yet more resources.

    The trouble with this analysis is that looking at every single decision as how the majority would benefit, only the largest group ever wins. But if I apply that logic to every decision, I reach a decidedly unfair final outcome on the global time-amortized balance sheet (since you seem to be arguing from the standpoint of maximizing communal good, which isn't necessarily how I view this, but your argument here isn't correct even when taking that view).
    OriginID: CrunchedStars
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,516 Member
    edited October 2016
    Neia wrote: »
    I find it odd when people gives a number of features as an indication of the quality of the game. Because let's face it, how many people on this forum would be happy if culling was gone ? If TS5 is exactly TS4 without culling, according to some people in this thread, it would be objectively smaller than TS4 because it has less features, but would it be worse for you ? (For me, it would because I like culling, but we won't all have the same anwser). Would it be worrying ?
    I was just thinking that too, culling is something that I can agree on with many people of not liking. I guess in the Sims community it is possible to find common ground with other Simmers and not liking culling and relationship culling is one of those areas.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    starcrunch wrote: »

    No I'm suggesting that after waiting decades for a major developer to acknowledge that they exist and provide content that reflects their lives, those of us that have the privilege of having almost every game of the art form directed at our lives our quite well represented. Almost everything in the gaming universe is targeted to my lifestyle and so I don't feel entitled to yet more resources.

    The trouble with this analysis is that looking at every single decision as how the majority would benefit, only the largest group ever wins. But if I apply that logic to every decision, I reach a decidedly unfair final outcome on the global time-amortized balance sheet (since you seem to be arguing from the standpoint of maximizing communal good, which isn't necessarily how I view this, but your argument here isn't correct even when taking that view).

    on the other hand you have limited resources and you choose to use that on a half made update simply to profit off publicity, while censoring your own forums, instead of pleasing a very vocal majority (and some minorities would have 100% fallen into it) and allowing customer dissatisfaction to go on.

    As for content reflecting lives - plenty of indie developers got penalized and thrown dirt on for representing transitioning people, because they did so without the approval and the hire of an official commission (AKA where gender studies graduates get employed), the politics of the issue are very sensitive, partly corrupt and not as simple as they appear to be. As for representing gays - every major game with dating options will essentially have same gender dating options.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    I was just thinking that too, culling is something that I can agree on with many people of not liking. I guess in the Sims community it is possible to find common ground with other Simmers and not liking culling and relationship culling is one of those areas.

    culling is not a feature though, it's just something that happens under the hood that developers use to make the game run better.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,516 Member
    edited October 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    I was just thinking that too, culling is something that I can agree on with many people of not liking. I guess in the Sims community it is possible to find common ground with other Simmers and not liking culling and relationship culling is one of those areas.

    culling is not a feature though, it's just something that happens under the hood that developers use to make the game run better.
    I don't know, I view it like an intended design feature that was forced on players. I think the Sims 2 did have a population cap, but it was much higher around the 400s area. I guess I think of the definition of features differently in regards to the Sims. Features to me are like tools or how things work under the hood with games.

    Also I agree with the others, the visual glitches with the implementation of the gender patch do need to be fixed still.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • sunman502sunman502 Posts: 18,298 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    I was just thinking that too, culling is something that I can agree on with many people of not liking. I guess in the Sims community it is possible to find common ground with other Simmers and not liking culling and relationship culling is one of those areas.

    culling is not a feature though, it's just something that happens under the hood that developers use to make the game run better.
    I don't know, I view it like an intended design feature that was forced on players. I think the Sims 2 did have a population cap, but it was much higher around the 400s area. I guess I think of the definition of features differently in regards to the Sims. Features to me are like tools or how things work under the hood with games.

    Also I agree with the others, the visual glitches with the implementation of the gender patch do need to be fixed still.
    Culling in the game is more like a safeguard to help make the game run smoother like mirta000 had said.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,516 Member
    sunman502 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    I was just thinking that too, culling is something that I can agree on with many people of not liking. I guess in the Sims community it is possible to find common ground with other Simmers and not liking culling and relationship culling is one of those areas.

    culling is not a feature though, it's just something that happens under the hood that developers use to make the game run better.
    I don't know, I view it like an intended design feature that was forced on players. I think the Sims 2 did have a population cap, but it was much higher around the 400s area. I guess I think of the definition of features differently in regards to the Sims. Features to me are like tools or how things work under the hood with games.

    Also I agree with the others, the visual glitches with the implementation of the gender patch do need to be fixed still.
    Culling in the game is more like a safeguard to help make the game run smoother like mirta000 had said.
    Thanks, it is still something I can agree on with other Simmers. I know how intense the caps are with both sets of culling really ruined my gameplay a lot. I mean I do use a mod for it, but feels like I am doing exactly what I had to do with the Sims 3 depending on mods to get gameplay back.

    Anyway, EP related, I hope they bring back the potions for the matchmakers again. Those were nice. Some new ones would be nice for that NPC too. I remember suggesting that NPC before, so kind of cool to see it implemented.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    starcrunch wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    starcrunch wrote: »
    Sounds a lot like you're suggesting those "others" should learn to wait their turn so you can have your way as part of the dominant group.

    are you suggesting that pleasing 4% of players earlier should be more of a priority than for example pleasing 40% of the players?

    No I'm suggesting that after waiting decades for a major developer to acknowledge that they exist and provide content that reflects their lives, those of us that have the privilege of having almost every game of the art form directed at our lives our quite well represented. Almost everything in the gaming universe is targeted to my lifestyle and so I don't feel entitled to yet more resources.

    The trouble with this analysis is that looking at every single decision as how the majority would benefit, only the largest group ever wins. But if I apply that logic to every decision, I reach a decidedly unfair final outcome on the global time-amortized balance sheet (since you seem to be arguing from the standpoint of maximizing communal good, which isn't necessarily how I view this, but your argument here isn't correct even when taking that view).


    Fun fact:
    I took part in a thread on the Sims 3 forums back in the day that requested for the disabled community to be recognized by implementing things such as wheelchairs and prosthetics. The community more or less told the thread creator to screw off because "who would want to play as a disabled person" or "you should be grateful Sims 3 gives you a chance to have legs." Couple of us defended him, and yeah...Understandably things got heated in that thread, and when it was done and the thread locked, the few of us that supported the idea got hit with bans. I guess the mods didn't like that it turned into a scuffle and decided to slap the smaller group with temp bans to resolve it.

    Now speaking today, I STILL am not represented. However, I can fully understand it. Aside from, say, prosthetic skins that are purely consmetic and do nothing to change a sim's movements, creating animations for wheelchairs or dwarf Sims or the like could eat a lot of development time. I get it: at the end of the day, it's not worth it to focus time on something just to appease a minority group when they could focus on gameplay features.

    See how I don't use my minority stance to argue you all owe me something and anyone that argues against a disabled update is an insensitive ❤️❤️❤️❤️? Yeah, more of that please. Because at the end of the day, disabled sims or transgender sims are not gameplay. And yes, updates should cater to the majority, because that's how you please the majority of customers. If you're a minority group...? Sad day for you. Just because that sucks doesn't mean you can't be rational and understanding about it.
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • sunman502sunman502 Posts: 18,298 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    sunman502 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    I was just thinking that too, culling is something that I can agree on with many people of not liking. I guess in the Sims community it is possible to find common ground with other Simmers and not liking culling and relationship culling is one of those areas.

    culling is not a feature though, it's just something that happens under the hood that developers use to make the game run better.
    I don't know, I view it like an intended design feature that was forced on players. I think the Sims 2 did have a population cap, but it was much higher around the 400s area. I guess I think of the definition of features differently in regards to the Sims. Features to me are like tools or how things work under the hood with games.

    Also I agree with the others, the visual glitches with the implementation of the gender patch do need to be fixed still.
    Culling in the game is more like a safeguard to help make the game run smoother like mirta000 had said.
    Thanks, it is still something I can agree on with other Simmers. I know how intense the caps are with both sets of culling really ruined my gameplay a lot. I mean I do use a mod for it, but feels like I am doing exactly what I had to do with the Sims 3 depending on mods to get gameplay back.

    Anyway, EP related, I hope they bring back the potions for the matchmakers again. Those were nice. Some new ones would be nice for that NPC too. I remember suggesting that NPC before, so kind of cool to see it implemented.
    You're Welcome! ;)<3
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