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Why being positive does not help dissatisfied players

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    Stdlr9Stdlr9 Posts: 2,744 Member
    SimmieSims wrote: »
    I think, while it's unfortunate that we're not getting CAW, I appreciate EA being forthcoming on this matter.

    I don't understand why they will confirm this but not other things that are lacking.

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    king_of_simcity7king_of_simcity7 Posts: 25,102 Member
    @SimmieSims Try reinstalling without CC and then add the CC back slowly and see how that works :smile:
    Simbourne
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited August 2016
    @JasonAnthonySterling, I just wanted to comment on what you said about if neg. players leave there won't be enough money to continue. That seems to be a real issue as of late since Origin has dropped the price on TS4 for USA customers to $39.99 down from the original $60 to stay there at that new standard price. I don't recall TS2 or TS3's standard prices being dropped down before the two year anniversary. I remember them staying at the same original price for years until they were about to end.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    SimmieSimsSimmieSims Posts: 234 Member
    edited August 2016
    Fact is, if somebody voices an opinion about their experience with TS4, or anything that matters to them, and another person feels the need to jump in and belittle what they're saying, attack them, or tell them that they're wrong and that they need to change the way they feel, is very disrespectful.

    People shift the focus to the way Gurus are being addressed. Valid point, but I am stating how I feel as someone who criticizes a product, and then being told in so many different ways that I have no right to my opinion. Who made that rule?

    Why do people feel the need to tell other adults, how to think, what to say, or criticize them on a personal level, when we are talking about a product? Is a game more important than actual people playing it?

    When you as a member on this forum, who voices concerns in regards to current game features, or who makes suggestions for future improvements, are addressed by other community members, who tell you to go back to playing TS3, that you need to get a life instead of "whining" about TS4, and that you need to improve your own attitude - HOW does that make YOU feel?

    Do you agree with them? Does that make you stick a pencil between your teeth and play TS4 with an eternal smile on your face? Or do you feel belittled and disrespected, or even bullied for the simple fact that you criticize a product?
    "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning." - William Henry Gates III
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    Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 3,232 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    @JasonAnthonySterling, I just wanted to comment on what you said about if neg. players leave there won't be enough money to continue. That seems to be a real issue as of late since Origin has dropped the price on TS4 for USA customers to $39.99 down from the original $60 to stay there at that new standard price. I don't recall TS2 or TS3's standard prices being dropped down before the two year anniversary. I remember them staying at the same original price for years until they were about to end.

    Yah its weird , this the frist time I saw in history . Where a game keeps being on sale, the sims 4 is on sale most of the year . Its hardly on regular price .
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    Aesir26Aesir26 Posts: 304 Member
    SimmieSims wrote: »
    Fact is, if somebody voices an opinion about their experience with TS4, or anything that matters to them, and another person feels the need to jump in and belittle what they're saying, attack them, or tell them that they're wrong and that they need to change the way they feel, is very disrespectful.

    People shift the focus to the way Gurus are being addressed. Valid point, but I am stating how I feel as someone who criticizes a product, and then being told in so many different ways that I have no right to my opinion. Who made that rule?

    Why do people feel the need to tell other adults, how to think, what to say, or criticize them on a lersonal level, when we are talking about a product? Is a game more important than actual people playing it?

    When you as a member on this forum, who voices concerns in regards to current game features, or who makes suggestions for future improvements, are addressed by other community members, who tell you to go back to playing TS3, that you need to get a life instead of "whining" about TS4, and that you need to improve your own attitude - HOW does that make YOU feel?

    Do you agree with them? Does that make you stick a pencil between your teeth and play TS4 with an eternal smile on your face? Or do you feel belittled and disrespected, or even bullied for the simple fact that you criticize a product?

    I certainly agree with most of what you have to say. Unfortunately the conduct itself is also quite contagious. There have been times where I haven't had much sleep or had a bad day, and I've wanted to say something similar to my previous post only much more aggressively complete with curse words. I never have and that's always my cue to step away from the forums but it's easy to see how others might fall into it even though that never excuses their actions.
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited August 2016
    Cinebar wrote: »
    @JasonAnthonySterling, I just wanted to comment on what you said about if neg. players leave there won't be enough money to continue. That seems to be a real issue as of late since Origin has dropped the price on TS4 for USA customers to $39.99 down from the original $60 to stay there at that new standard price. I don't recall TS2 or TS3's standard prices being dropped down before the two year anniversary. I remember them staying at the same original price for years until they were about to end.

    Yah its weird , this the frist time I saw in history . Where a game keeps being on sale, the sims 4 is on sale most of the year . Its hardly on regular price .

    No, not just on sale. They have reduced the retail price instead of being sold at $60 it will now be sold at $40 when not on sale. They reduced the original price from now on.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    SimmieSimsSimmieSims Posts: 234 Member
    @Cinebar - And this is what I've been seeing as well. How is bullying tolerated, when it comes to people who are critical of TS4, but it doesn't always work the same way when it comes to supporters of the game?

    I've had discussions with numerous members, who are fans of TS4 and might not understand my criticism, but many of those members are smart and civilized, and even though we do not agree, we can have constructive and respectful exchanges.

    I don't know what the game means to individual players, to me it's a creative outlet and an hour or 2 of quiet time for myself. If TS4 means the world to another player, then who in the world am I to judge? And who am I to tell you, that it's "just a game"?

    A disabled friend of mine, spends most of her time playing WOW, and this makes up a large part of her life. When I see someone say "It's just a game", I immediately have to think how offensive this statement is to some people, who don't have too many choices, when it comes to their activities. And I can see how a game like The Sims, could be the most wonderful way of playing with life, especially when a person is restricted and unable to experience many things in their own life.

    This is also, where the current iteration has dropped the ball in my opinion. When you only look at numbers, statistics, target groups, and current trends, but you disregard the reason why players are drawn to TS, then you will never know your audience fully. The question is, what is it about TS, that creates emotional attachment with players? I think that's what some members mean, when they say that TS4 is lacking depth compared to the previous games.

    For me TS is about creativity and relaxation, but it doesn't matter what it means to me. What matters is to be mindful of others, and consider that I can not force my opinion on someone else, unless I have walked in their shoes.
    "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning." - William Henry Gates III
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    Stdlr9Stdlr9 Posts: 2,744 Member
    SimmieSims wrote: »
    @Cinebar - And this is what I've been seeing as well. How is bullying tolerated, when it comes to people who are critical of TS4, but it doesn't always work the same way when it comes to supporters of the game?

    There is not, by any standard whatsoever, equal and fair treatment of members on this forum. Some of us are on "the list of troublemakers" for stating our opinions and posting inconvenient truths and quotes. Others, game cheerleaders, merrily post speculation and lies as fact, day after day, yet nothing is done. They can pretty much say whatever they want and bully others. However, this is EA's forum and they can do what they like. And they do. True colors are shown.
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited August 2016
    It's been allowed since day one. Even in the gender patch when some were not happy (and that is their right) it was allowed for Simmers to call other players who were not happy names. No one ran in to defend the unhappy player but me. Because that is their right. No matter how we feel about anything. But the only comment made by a guru was they support the other side. What about the side of those who were unhappy, the name calling continued. It's been a double standard here since day one. When gurus allowed players to run off many people by telling them to leave, flagged them as trolls, and got them banned and caused the others to just not even bother trying the game. And told them to get off the forums and go back to TS3. Now they want to play the victims. Not hardly. And want the rest us of to believe this forum is going down hill because those who disagree about the game are bullies. I don't see that, I see them defensive yes, but not bullies and I see happy campers running off anyone who would ever even want to improve the game. So, that is why many of us are not coming here anymore or less frequently and especially when gurus tell players their complaints have an expiration date. Seriously, Maxis needs to get a grip when their own people successfully run off people with their own brand of flame baiting.

    ETA: You aren't a bigot because you wanted toddlers and traits to matter first more than a gender patch. Six months to work on that (for real) and two years with no answers didn't make people bigots for wanting for what they had been begging for since June 2014.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,553 Member
    For anyone info i am 1 of those simmers that never wanted that transgender thing in game sure i am agints it but my motto is if there is some content in the game that is not like simply don't use it thats simple and thats what i am doing, i may like the sims4 but it do not mean that i might like the content thats patch in the game like that transgender thing. like i said if there are stuff in the game you do not like simply don't use it its simple as saying 1 2 3
    If you went the sims5 to remain offline feel free to sign this petition http://chng.it/gtfHPhHK please note that it is also to keep the gallery



    Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :

    1923-2016 mamie :'(
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    PHOEBESMOM601PHOEBESMOM601 Posts: 14,595 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    "Everybody has a different definition of the good side." -Will Wright

    What some people view as positive, I can view as a negative, so it varies greatly from Simmer to Simmer. I find it much more toxic when people are negative towards each other whether towards a Guru or not because all it does is promote a negative atmosphere for everyone. I couldn't care less if it is an internet norm now. So regardless about how someone feels about the Sims 4 or any iteration best advice, keep it about the game, not the people which goes for everyone. By the end of the day we are all Simmers and no one is better than anyone else. But the negativity about people is exactly why the Sims 4 is getting the reputation of being the most toxic game to date. I seriously think because the Sims 4 depicts perfect life, people have to get their deviant fixes on forums and other social media sites. Says a lot more of what the game is lacking if people have to get their drama here. Interesting social experiment that is for sure. :/ Anyway the game is nothing without the community, so if people truly want to help out the game, give constructive feedback and help promote a healthy community, not just a one-sided one. Simmers come in all shapes and forms and it is ok to be different. Society promotes the view of sameness so much, that is what promotes conflict. Humans are not robots, they have free will and think differently and have different life experiences.

    This song has always had a good message about anti-prejudice:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAZ8yOFFbAc&ab_channel=KMUW

    As far as me, the prejudice towards Simmers is exactly why I've given up on the Sims 4. There is only so much negativity I can handle before I think a game is no longer worth supporting or giving feedback on. If a game is creating this much negativity towards the community, it is sending me a big red flag with my analytical thinking. Only time will tell what the future of the Sims holds however. Like what you like and dislike what you dislike, but don't let anyone peer pressure you otherwise. Only you know what your likes and dislikes are, no one else. There is no wrong way to play the Sims and everyone should feel welcomed on forums and elsewhere without the fear of posting. I saw the ill effects "sides debates" did with a site called Gaiaonline, so if it continues with the Sims, it will lose customers period.

    Anyway I think the Ask thread is a good thing and good way to promote a positive feeling among the community. Negativity seems to grow in silence, so I hope the Gurus are able to keep talking for the sake of the community.

    Do you really think people come here to create drama and get their deviant play "fix" by coming here? Most of the time I just let what ever is said here slide off my back but I really take offense to that opinion. I come here with the hope that at some point the devs will all take different types of play into account and not let so many of us feel left out.


    As far as giving up....if you allow the opinions of others to influence how you view and enjoy a game you are demonstrating exactly the kind of behavior you are arguing against aren't you?

    As far as the AAG thread.....I'll hold my opinion until I see how it goes. It's one of those things that seem good in concept but it will depend on how it's carried out. It's about 13 pages so far, done over three days and there haven't been many responses yet. Now SG Drake has gone on vacation so we'll have to wait and see.
    "People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    For anyone info i am 1 of those simmers that never wanted that transgender thing in game sure i am agints it but my motto is if there is some content in the game that is not like simply don't use it thats simple and thats what i am doing, i may like the sims4 but it do not mean that i might like the content thats patch in the game like that transgender thing. like i said if there are stuff in the game you do not like simply don't use it its simple as saying 1 2 3

    I only wanted the gender patch optional and it was so I thanked them for making it optional. But I would have preferred any new content be in a different patch than the one for bugs. I think everyone no matter who they are should have the right to pick and choose what new features or objects they want in their game. That's why I liked the old The Sims site, anything 'extra' was a separate download. If you didn't wanted lighted deer statues you didn't have to take them. Just like it was on TS2 and TS3 site's if you didn't want the new free content you didn't have to take it. I never like something forced even if I would like it.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited August 2016
    I have to go today and didn't mean to even log in today. Because I am done with this game. However, I will just say this. I highly take offense to telling people how to post a feedback thread. Sometimes, the only way to get across the frustration someone has with a game or anything else is to lay it out there in plain words. If we spend all our time saying I sure would love this or that, how many things get answered that way? Not many. All peoples' are different in how they think and speak. And how they word things and telling someone to post just like the other guy is totally beyond the pale in my view. I can't stand thought police. Let alone pc correctness. If we all worded everything the same as someone else then there is no point in putting our brand of wording on anything. And overly sugar coated threads make me throw up. Have a nice day and keep it real. (to everyone) ETA: Is I have to manipulate someone with a smile when writing a request then I have become the lowest denominator in my view. That's like smiling and stabbing in the back. Plain talk gets more done.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    Katlyn2525Katlyn2525 Posts: 4,201 Member
    edited August 2016
    Cinebar wrote: »
    @JasonAnthonySterling, I just wanted to comment on what you said about if neg. players leave there won't be enough money to continue. That seems to be a real issue as of late since Origin has dropped the price on TS4 for USA customers to $39.99 down from the original $60 to stay there at that new standard price. I don't recall TS2 or TS3's standard prices being dropped down before the two year anniversary. I remember them staying at the same original price for years until they were about to end.

    Yah its weird , this the frist time I saw in history . Where a game keeps being on sale, the sims 4 is on sale most of the year . Its hardly on regular price .

    I agree with the game being on sale all the time. When the game came out in September 2014, this started in October 2014, followed by November 2014, and so on. It is rarely not on sale. No wonder they can claim so many purchased the game. But are all of those people still playing it?
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    ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited August 2016
    Do you really think people come here to create drama and get their deviant play "fix" by coming here? Most of the time I just let what ever is said here slide off my back but I really take offense to that opinion. I come here with the hope that at some point the devs will all take different types of play into account and not let so many of us feel left out.


    As far as giving up....if you allow the opinions of others to influence how you view and enjoy a game you are demonstrating exactly the kind of behavior you are arguing against aren't you?

    As far as the AAG thread.....I'll hold my opinion until I see how it goes. It's one of those things that seem good in concept but it will depend on how it's carried out. It's about 13 pages so far, done over three days and there haven't been many responses yet. Now SG Drake has gone on vacation so we'll have to wait and see.
    Sadly yes in short. The Sims 4 is very unbalanced and ignores deviant play, so thus have to get that play style somewhere else like online.

    I just don't understand even after two years sides debates still exists, just sends a big red flag to me. I guess just reading over the SimCity fiasco again, it brought reality to the front for me. Same issues there that players were not able to play a certain way, but the "vision" wasn't allowed to change. I don't think anyone really cared how I felt about the Sims 4 anyways regardless of time period.

    True, we will see. So far sparked some interesting conversations and explanations of why the Sims 4 was designed as it is. Such a bummer dark humor isn't important anymore. It was interesting to see how people reacted to both the positive/negative threads reflects where they fall on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
    maslow-extended.png

    I've learned that people that identify themselves as "positive" people tend to like the Sims 4 more because it is a game in which not much bad happens. They like the game being simple for them and like having written instructions on what to do which falls under the growth needs. Nothing wrong with that just how they like to play. Then people who aren't as happy with the Sims 4 tend to need their deficiency needs met, so because the Sims 4 is designed towards growth needs mainly, the Sims 4 isn't ever going to appeal to them. I guess in a way the Sims 4 was designed for right sided thinkers. Being an analytical thinker myself, I use the left side of my brain mostly for problem solving, grasping patterns easily, and play a game inside and out. I guess I've just run out of things in the Sims 4 to keep me amused. There is too much balanced on one side of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, that there isn't much left to explore for left sided thinkers. Anyway, just a theory of mine of the social experiment that seems to being going on with the Sims 4.
    Post edited by Scobre on
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
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    pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    For anyone info i am 1 of those simmers that never wanted that transgender thing in game sure i am agints it but my motto is if there is some content in the game that is not like simply don't use it thats simple and thats what i am doing, i may like the sims4 but it do not mean that i might like the content thats patch in the game like that transgender thing. like i said if there are stuff in the game you do not like simply don't use it its simple as saying 1 2 3

    I only wanted the gender patch optional and it was so I thanked them for making it optional. But I would have preferred any new content be in a different patch than the one for bugs. I think everyone no matter who they are should have the right to pick and choose what new features or objects they want in their game. That's why I liked the old The Sims site, anything 'extra' was a separate download. If you didn't wanted lighted deer statues you didn't have to take them. Just like it was on TS2 and TS3 site's if you didn't want the new free content you didn't have to take it. I never like something forced even if I would like it.
    That is exactly what I wanted to Cine that the patch to be one if you wanted the content and then one for all the bugs. I admit in one of my game I did try that cross gender stuff but I feel like its happening in my game despite me doing it.

    tenor.gif?itemid=5228641
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    simspeaker4simspeaker4 Posts: 5,999 Member
    Katlyn2525 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    @JasonAnthonySterling, I just wanted to comment on what you said about if neg. players leave there won't be enough money to continue. That seems to be a real issue as of late since Origin has dropped the price on TS4 for USA customers to $39.99 down from the original $60 to stay there at that new standard price. I don't recall TS2 or TS3's standard prices being dropped down before the two year anniversary. I remember them staying at the same original price for years until they were about to end.

    Yah its weird , this the frist time I saw in history . Where a game keeps being on sale, the sims 4 is on sale most of the year . Its hardly on regular price .

    I agree with the game being on sale all the time. When the game came out in September 2014, this started in October 2014, followed by November 2014, and so on. It is rarely not on sale. No wonder they can claim so many purchased the game. But are all of those people still playing it?

    It's proof that EA knows what this game is really worth.
    I am a perfectly decrepit withered old hag who enjoys self-mockery.

    Need help falling asleep? http://wry7000.blogspot.com/
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    GruffmanGruffman Posts: 4,831 Member
    If I may just step in here for a second (and please pardon, I am going to take some snips out of posts).
    SimmieSims wrote: »
    Fact is, if somebody voices an opinion about their experience with TS4, or anything that matters to them, and another person feels the need to jump in and belittle what they're saying, attack them, or tell them that they're wrong and that they need to change the way they feel, is very disrespectful.

    Sadly, this does happen ... daily, by those who are happy with the game and by those are not. It happens on both sides. As someone who likes the game, I don't even bother to go into threads started by certain simmers, I have threads that I know I cannot post in. I have people on my ignore list, that while I might like the thread I am posting in, it isn't worth it to click on their post to see what they have to say. I already know. It shouldn't be like ... but it is. I am positive that anyone who has posted regularly for a while feels the same.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Truthfully, bullied. I have never been able to make one negative remark or any negative feedback thread without someone bullying me. Whether they did it with a smile or not, it's still dismissing a person and their frustrations and even running in and saying 'nothing is wrong with this game' demeans the person who has actual issues. It's a form of real bullying in my eyes.

    Again, this does go both ways, and bullied is a good word to use to describe it. You can't have a positive remark/positive feedback thread without someone coming into it either. At times, I am not sure what hat I am supposed to wear. Am I the white knight, the cheerleader, the EA lap dog, the Guru-lover, the sheep or someone who is ready to go to a My Little Pony convention because the game is for children and only pre-teen girls would like the game. It does get old.

    I like the game. I feel that I can't share what I like about the game. I can't post pictures. I can't do my picture stories. I cannot express what I like about the game. Whats the point. I feel that you are not allowed to be positive on the forums. Yes, bullied is a good term to use.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    It's been allowed since day one. Even in the gender patch when some were not happy (and that is their right) it was allowed for Simmers to call other players who were not happy names. No one ran in to defend the unhappy player but me. Because that is their right. No matter how we feel about anything. But the only comment made by a guru was they support the other side. What about the side of those who were unhappy, the name calling continued. It's been a double standard here since day one.

    I have actually defended you before in posts Cinebar. I have used you as an example before in my posts. To say that no one ran in to defend the unhappy player but you is a little inaccurate in my eyes. There is articulate, thought out feedback that encourages debate and discussion. Those are few and far between. There is the knee-jerk/half sarcastic/don't really want to have a discussion/this is my right and I am going to say exactly how I feel, forget anyone else. That is the most common form of feedback.

    No, the forums shouldn't be this way, but that is how they are. The same people get put in "jail" for the can't count that high number, and everything just rolls on along.

    Gruffman backing out of the thread. Have a great day.
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    SimmieSimsSimmieSims Posts: 234 Member
    @thevogel - I love your post, and I actually giggled when I read about you trying to find things in TS4, because I remember exactly how I felt when I started the game.

    It's also not simply a matter of expecting more quantitative content, since quantity has not brought more to my game. The first EP for TS3 was WA, and WA alone kept me entertained for a very long time.

    The neighborhood size in TS4 is another major issue, which by itself is just very limiting to me as a player, and I'm sure it would be an even bigger issue for builders. Placing more community lots in the game automatically restricts the number of households that I can place. It's not really a sandbox game, more like a matchbox game with the current restrictions.
    "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning." - William Henry Gates III
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