Agree with me on what point? That "base game feature" is a loose term that is throw around too much on these forums because that's all I'm against.
then you shouldn't have asked for a definition from others
but should have argued from the beginning that you think that
"the base game feature is a loose term thrown around too much"
then you would have been met with a different development of this thread
It still would of ended in a "Sims 4 is terrible thread" because thats all certain people on here like to do.
1. you are biased, was actually already as you started the thread, we gave you the benefit of the doubt
2. it would have been at least honest
i play this game for 15 years now
i am on those forums now "complaining" since march first
complaining is not the game i have paid for,
also not waiting for the gameplay of sims
& also not believing the promisses of the devs
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
A base game item is something EA says is a base game item. Sadly, we have no control over it. We can argue as much as we want, bring arguments from previous iterations, but in the end, it's still whatever they say it is.
I'm personally of a like mind to the OP, I can understand wanting certain features like toddlers and not really appreciating EA business models, but I really don't understand what most people see as "base game features" either.
It doesn't make sense to me to not see the Sims 4 as an improvement in at least some ways.
They made CAS more tactile than ever, made sims who can multitask and can usually take care of themselves, made building easier than ever, and gave us more to work with in the way of sims who "feel emotions" for story purposes (every previous iteration kind of required the player to imagine what their sims were feeling, now it's right in your face).
With that said, what makes a base game feature standard and valid?
All I see on the majority of threads is people complaining about the lack of this, or the lack of that, but they're completely ignoring the fact that this is still a Sims game and it still has practically all the major features of one. Sims, Build/Buy, and Live mode.
I don't see the lack of toddlers, open world, CASt, or initial lack of pools as regression either.
I am not a major family player. I have played a sim family for 7 generations and each has had at least 2-4 kids, but the lack of toddlers doesn't discourage me. I play with what I have and I like it.
It's not about using TS1 as an excuse to exclude certain features. I see a game that is being redone to appeal to a newer audience. They went back in time to what is essentially Pleasantview and reinvented it.
Whatever counts as a "base game feature" is very subjective to one's own tastes. I see the base game of TS4 as having a ton of potential, but people are too stuck on exclusion of certain features to ever see it that way. My biggest issue with the argument of what counts as a base game feature is that nobody ever takes the developers' viewpoint into consideration. It just seems like the entire forum is like "MY vision matters, only ME, if it doesn't line up with what I WANT, it's rubbish!"
In game design, the developers' vision is what matters before anything else. It's not like they didn't give us enough base game features to still create whatever we wanted.
Awake.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity.... The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
A base game item is something EA says is a base game item. Sadly, we have no control over it. We can argue as much as we want, bring arguments from previous iterations, but in the end, it's still whatever they say it is.
I'm personally of a like mind to the OP, I can understand wanting certain features like toddlers and not really appreciating EA business models, but I really don't understand what most people see as "base game features" either.
It doesn't make sense to me to not see the Sims 4 as an improvement in at least some ways.
They made CAS more tactile than ever, made sims who can multitask and can usually take care of themselves, made building easier than ever, and gave us more to work with in the way of sims who "feel emotions" for story purposes (every previous iteration kind of required the player to imagine what their sims were feeling, now it's right in your face).
With that said, what makes a base game feature standard and valid?
All I see on the majority of threads is people complaining about the lack of this, or the lack of that, but they're completely ignoring the fact that this is still a Sims game and it still has practically all the major features of one. Sims, Build/Buy, and Live mode.
I don't see the lack of toddlers, open world, CASt, or initial lack of pools as regression either.
I am not a major family player. I have played a sim family for 7 generations and each has had at least 2-4 kids, but the lack of toddlers doesn't discourage me. I play with what I have and I like it.
It's not about using TS1 as an excuse to exclude certain features. I see a game that is being redone to appeal to a newer audience. They went back in time to what is essentially Pleasantview and reinvented it.
Whatever counts as a "base game feature" is very subjective to one's own tastes. I see the base game of TS4 as having a ton of potential, but people are too stuck on exclusion of certain features to ever see it that way. My biggest issue with the argument of what counts as a base game feature is that nobody ever takes the developers' viewpoint into consideration. It just seems like the entire forum is like "MY vision matters, only ME, if it doesn't line up with what I WANT, it's rubbish!"
In game design, the developers' vision is what matters before anything else. It's not like they didn't give us enough base game features to still create whatever we wanted.
And if it weren't the law I guess car manufacturers can not include seat belts with their cars or electronic companies can start making black & white TV's again and I'm sure you'll quick get in line to buy those as quick as you get in line to buy more things from EA.
Do you want a definition? I would say a base game feature is one that has been included in the base games of previous versions, and/or has been promised for future versions.
For example, many people complained that the color wheel was excluded as a missing feature, but it wasn't a base game feature. Sure it was included in Sims 3 but it added a ton of lag and bogged everything down, and it can be replaced with a different system.
Toddlers were included in games 2 and 3. Yes, they weren't in the first game. But the first game also didn't have kids aging into adults- they were kids forever. So, Sims 2 set a standard for how aging and life stages would be from now on. The only thing that would maybe deviate from this standard would be progressive aging without clear stages (baby, toddler, child etc). In fact, Toddlers were promised to be included in Sims 4. They weren't. I wouldn't include young adult a base game feature, because it was added much later on from an expansion pack and also they're more/less the same as adults.
With pools, they have been in games 1-3. A lot of people (admittedly, a bit demented), would buy the game solely to kill sims with the pool... Surrounding it by walls, etc. so to not include it in the base game, when it has been in previous versions, was a screw up. But they fixed that.
Does the term get thrown around a lot? Yeah, it does. But I think it's reasonable to consider toddlers a feature that has been included in base games, and to expect them to be in future installments. They messed up.
Maybe we should discuss the "base game features" that are not really base game features. Keffers, could you please list some? And toddlers just don't fit in that list.
I could list some, but it seems like that would just be my opinion, because it seems everyone has different ideas to what should be base game. The ones that get mentioned the most, that are not really base features are, cars, CASt and open world. I see toddlers as a grey zone type of thing.
A base game item is something EA says is a base game item. Sadly, we have no control over it. We can argue as much as we want, bring arguments from previous iterations, but in the end, it's still whatever they say it is.
I'm personally of a like mind to the OP, I can understand wanting certain features like toddlers and not really appreciating EA business models, but I really don't understand what most people see as "base game features" either.
It doesn't make sense to me to not see the Sims 4 as an improvement in at least some ways.
They made CAS more tactile than ever, made sims who can multitask and can usually take care of themselves, made building easier than ever, and gave us more to work with in the way of sims who "feel emotions" for story purposes (every previous iteration kind of required the player to imagine what their sims were feeling, now it's right in your face).
With that said, what makes a base game feature standard and valid?
All I see on the majority of threads is people complaining about the lack of this, or the lack of that, but they're completely ignoring the fact that this is still a Sims game and it still has practically all the major features of one. Sims, Build/Buy, and Live mode.
I don't see the lack of toddlers, open world, CASt, or initial lack of pools as regression either.
I am not a major family player. I have played a sim family for 7 generations and each has had at least 2-4 kids, but the lack of toddlers doesn't discourage me. I play with what I have and I like it.
It's not about using TS1 as an excuse to exclude certain features. I see a game that is being redone to appeal to a newer audience. They went back in time to what is essentially Pleasantview and reinvented it.
Whatever counts as a "base game feature" is very subjective to one's own tastes. I see the base game of TS4 as having a ton of potential, but people are too stuck on exclusion of certain features to ever see it that way. My biggest issue with the argument of what counts as a base game feature is that nobody ever takes the developers' viewpoint into consideration. It just seems like the entire forum is like "MY vision matters, only ME, if it doesn't line up with what I WANT, it's rubbish!"
In game design, the developers' vision is what matters before anything else. It's not like they didn't give us enough base game features to still create whatever we wanted.
And if it weren't the law I guess car manufacturers can not include seat belts with their cars or electronic companies can start making black & white TV's again and I'm sure you'll quick get in line to buy those as quick as you get in line to buy more things from EA.
Yeah, but a video game doesn't require me to control a couple of tons of metal in a public space. I can also drive the sims after half a bottle of malt - it helps
Video games are another form of entertainment and all forms of entertainment constantly reinvent itself. Sometimes for purposes of art, sometimes to make money, sometimes both. I don't have a pop at The Killing crime drama because DeNiro didn't shoot the bad guy in the face at the end.
EA own the Sims. They say what a base game is. Doesn't matter whether we agree or not. They may listen, they may not, they may take notice, they may not.
Seems clear cut to me.
Awake.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity.... The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
A base game item is something EA says is a base game item. Sadly, we have no control over it. We can argue as much as we want, bring arguments from previous iterations, but in the end, it's still whatever they say it is.
I'm personally of a like mind to the OP, I can understand wanting certain features like toddlers and not really appreciating EA business models, but I really don't understand what most people see as "base game features" either.
It doesn't make sense to me to not see the Sims 4 as an improvement in at least some ways.
They made CAS more tactile than ever, made sims who can multitask and can usually take care of themselves, made building easier than ever, and gave us more to work with in the way of sims who "feel emotions" for story purposes (every previous iteration kind of required the player to imagine what their sims were feeling, now it's right in your face).
With that said, what makes a base game feature standard and valid?
All I see on the majority of threads is people complaining about the lack of this, or the lack of that, but they're completely ignoring the fact that this is still a Sims game and it still has practically all the major features of one. Sims, Build/Buy, and Live mode.
I don't see the lack of toddlers, open world, CASt, or initial lack of pools as regression either.
I am not a major family player. I have played a sim family for 7 generations and each has had at least 2-4 kids, but the lack of toddlers doesn't discourage me. I play with what I have and I like it.
It's not about using TS1 as an excuse to exclude certain features. I see a game that is being redone to appeal to a newer audience. They went back in time to what is essentially Pleasantview and reinvented it.
Whatever counts as a "base game feature" is very subjective to one's own tastes. I see the base game of TS4 as having a ton of potential, but people are too stuck on exclusion of certain features to ever see it that way. My biggest issue with the argument of what counts as a base game feature is that nobody ever takes the developers' viewpoint into consideration. It just seems like the entire forum is like "MY vision matters, only ME, if it doesn't line up with what I WANT, it's rubbish!"
In game design, the developers' vision is what matters before anything else. It's not like they didn't give us enough base game features to still create whatever we wanted.
And if it weren't the law I guess car manufacturers can not include seat belts with their cars or electronic companies can start making black & white TV's again and I'm sure you'll quick get in line to buy those as quick as you get in line to buy more things from EA.
Yeah, but a video game doesn't require me to control a couple of tons of metal in a public space. I can also drive the sims after half a bottle of malt - it helps
Video games are another form of entertainment and all forms of entertainment constantly reinvent itself. Sometimes for purposes of art, sometimes to make money, sometimes both. I don't have a pop at The Killing crime drama because DeNiro didn't shoot the bad guy in the face at the end.
EA own the Sims. They say what a base game is. Doesn't matter whether we agree or not. They may listen, they may not, they may take notice, they may not.
Seems clear cut to me.
I know you are late to the party, but I beg to differ with you. The Sims set the standard and let me know if it's o.k. for you next time when they leave out a TV, phone, and stereo. Basic modern day life luxuries. Or maybe a commode next time to charge you in SP. I know you love the TS4 but find some things you want changed but for the most part pretty happy with it. But, I'm sorry, excuses like yours just adds to EA's milking machine.
Fixed a sentence which read worse than I meant. lol
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
For me? Features, items and gameplay that was and has been part of the base game since the beginning.
A base game feature for the Sims would be, at its most simplistic definition, dishwashers. This is an item that has been in the game from the day of release.
A feature would be, Toddlers. While they were not present in TS1 they have been part of the base game since TS2.
If you look back you will notice how progressively base game items and such have been left out, eventually sold back to us via some sort of pack.
This is something that started happening with TS3, hot tubs anyone? And it progressively got worse and now we have TS4. A game that in the history of the series is by far the most slashed.
They didn't sell back pools at least, and I still think toddlers will be in a free patch (because they'll sell a lot more toddler stuff that way). Seems like with some of the items, like pools or dishwashers, they really didn't get how important those little things were -- once they found out, we got them for free.
But Sims 4 has content in the base game that wasn't in Sims 3 base game (I'm using that as the most recent example). Professional bars and bar venues (and Mixology skill) didn't come until Late Night, neither did pianos (and children couldn't play pianos!). Violins were a Sims 3 Store item. Chemistry set came with Generations (though that one was able to be used by adults as well as children). Reading to children came with Generations (and you could only read them bedtime stories, though having them fall asleep in the middle was kind of cute). We don't have swings and slides, but we have jungle gyms and monkey bars.
So yes, there was base game content from previous Sims games missing in Sims 4 -- but we got content that was only in EPs or the Store in Sims 3. I'd say it's balanced out fairly well overall.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I know you are late to the party, but I beg to differ with you. The Sims set the standard and let me know if it's o.k. for you next time when they leave out a TV, phone, and stereo. Basic modern day life luxuries. Or maybe a commode next time to charge you in SP. I know you love the TS4 but find some things you want changed but for the most part pretty happy with it. But sorry excuses like yours just adds to EA's milking machine.
And as you differ with them, I differ with you in sharing their opinion. While the Sims is a game about the player's choices to do whatever they want, it's still a game, and video games are always developed with the producers', developers' and publishers' interests at heart. Whatever EA and Maxis choose to include/exclude in a base game is simply not in our power.
Maybe what they want the game to be isn't what we want the game to be. We can voice our opinions all we want, but at the end of the day, the ball is always in their court. I am quite tired of all the bickering and complaining because I actually enjoy the game as it is. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.
For me? Features, items and gameplay that was and has been part of the base game since the beginning.
A base game feature for the Sims would be, at its most simplistic definition, dishwashers. This is an item that has been in the game from the day of release.
A feature would be, Toddlers. While they were not present in TS1 they have been part of the base game since TS2.
If you look back you will notice how progressively base game items and such have been left out, eventually sold back to us via some sort of pack.
This is something that started happening with TS3, hot tubs anyone? And it progressively got worse and now we have TS4. A game that in the history of the series is by far the most slashed.
They didn't sell back pools at least, and I still think toddlers will be in a free patch (because they'll sell a lot more toddler stuff that way). Seems like with some of the items, like pools or dishwashers, they really didn't get how important those little things were -- once they found out, we got them for free.
But Sims 4 has content in the base game that wasn't in Sims 3 base game (I'm using that as the most recent example). Professional bars and bar venues (and Mixology skill) didn't come until Late Night, neither did pianos (and children couldn't play pianos!). Violins were a Sims 3 Store item. Chemistry set came with Generations (though that one was able to be used by adults as well as children). Reading to children came with Generations (and you could only read them bedtime stories, though having them fall asleep in the middle was kind of cute). We don't have swings and slides, but we have jungle gyms and monkey bars.
So yes, there was base game content from previous Sims games missing in Sims 4 -- but we got content that was only in EPs or the Store in Sims 3. I'd say it's balanced out fairly well overall.
They are in the game because you aren't going to get the standard EP repeats we have gotten the last fifteen years. You won't be seeing a Hot Date, Nightlife, or Late Night. No need for it, you already have bars and clubs. This game is on the piecemeal train to DLC concepts. Not actually themes. There is a big difference. You won't be seeing Pets EP or even a Seasons EP like in TS2 and TS3. But more like visit an area that always has snow.
That's why your base game has something not in TS3's base, because those EPs aren't coming but concepts for more social type game play as in the TS4 base is what is coming. No real 'theme'.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
NPCs - Firefighters/Burglars/Social Workers/ Nannies or Babysitters/...
*This is Sims 4 not Sims- We're Starting Over
* I can agree that Emotions are in our face now- they're plastered in the corners with the Sim thumbnail.
* Some forget that for 5 years players were asking and begging and complaining about a lot of Stuff in TS3 and instead of improving, they just dropped it.
A base game item is something EA says is a base game item. Sadly, we have no control over it. We can argue as much as we want, bring arguments from previous iterations, but in the end, it's still whatever they say it is.
I'm personally of a like mind to the OP, I can understand wanting certain features like toddlers and not really appreciating EA business models, but I really don't understand what most people see as "base game features" either.
It doesn't make sense to me to not see the Sims 4 as an improvement in at least some ways.
They made CAS more tactile than ever, made sims who can multitask and can usually take care of themselves, made building easier than ever, and gave us more to work with in the way of sims who "feel emotions" for story purposes (every previous iteration kind of required the player to imagine what their sims were feeling, now it's right in your face).
With that said, what makes a base game feature standard and valid?
All I see on the majority of threads is people complaining about the lack of this, or the lack of that, but they're completely ignoring the fact that this is still a Sims game and it still has practically all the major features of one. Sims, Build/Buy, and Live mode.
I don't see the lack of toddlers, open world, CASt, or initial lack of pools as regression either.
I am not a major family player. I have played a sim family for 7 generations and each has had at least 2-4 kids, but the lack of toddlers doesn't discourage me. I play with what I have and I like it.
It's not about using TS1 as an excuse to exclude certain features. I see a game that is being redone to appeal to a newer audience. They went back in time to what is essentially Pleasantview and reinvented it.
Whatever counts as a "base game feature" is very subjective to one's own tastes. I see the base game of TS4 as having a ton of potential, but people are too stuck on exclusion of certain features to ever see it that way. My biggest issue with the argument of what counts as a base game feature is that nobody ever takes the developers' viewpoint into consideration. It just seems like the entire forum is like "MY vision matters, only ME, if it doesn't line up with what I WANT, it's rubbish!"
In game design, the developers' vision is what matters before anything else. It's not like they didn't give us enough base game features to still create whatever we wanted.
And if it weren't the law I guess car manufacturers can not include seat belts with their cars or electronic companies can start making black & white TV's again and I'm sure you'll quick get in line to buy those as quick as you get in line to buy more things from EA.
Yeah, but a video game doesn't require me to control a couple of tons of metal in a public space. I can also drive the sims after half a bottle of malt - it helps
Video games are another form of entertainment and all forms of entertainment constantly reinvent itself. Sometimes for purposes of art, sometimes to make money, sometimes both. I don't have a pop at The Killing crime drama because DeNiro didn't shoot the bad guy in the face at the end.
EA own the Sims. They say what a base game is. Doesn't matter whether we agree or not. They may listen, they may not, they may take notice, they may not.
Seems clear cut to me.
I know you are late to the party, but I beg to differ with you. The Sims set the standard and let me know if it's o.k. for you next time when they leave out a TV, phone, and stereo. Basic modern day life luxuries. Or maybe a commode next time to charge you in SP. I know you love the TS4 but find some things you want changed but for the most part pretty happy with it. But sorry excuses like yours just adds to EA's milking machine.
The De facto standard, perhaps. I would find it hard to argue against that, but precedence doesn't always make a thing true. EA owns the sims, lock, stock and barrel. What they say goes.
As for the other stuff. Of course, I want all that stuff you mentioned and a whole pile of other stuff, much of which is rarely, if ever, asked for on here. I'd swap all that stuff you mentioned for an advanced UI that would allow me to tweak the game balance on the fly, for example.
As for me being OK with the method of sales, pricing. No, I'm not. There is a whole huge, monstrous pile of stuff in life, and this game that I am not OK with, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what is defined as a base game.
As I have said in another post, I always feel a bit dirty after buying DLC.
Oh, and I am always late to parties
Awake.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity.... The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
Lots of people throw around "The Sims 4 is missing key base game features" so I'm wondering, what justifies a base game feature? What is the definition?
Lets be clear here, I will not mention anything else but the core thing, the core base game features.
This game is named Sims and it is about them, about their lives.
The game was released with undefined lifestages, there was no focus on the how a sim transitions from a life stage to another. This is not the case with the past sims except Sims 1.
This game lacks the defined life stages that previous games had.
Baby: Its an object, you dont interact with it but with the bassinet
Toddlers: Are not there and this made simmers so angry till date
Children: Very cute and nice but they can hardly play with each other like in TS2
Teenagers: They are missing in this game. For cutting costs they decided to make them as the adult
These are not small problems but big ones that EA did not address. so core features in this game has been messed with. I love the game but that does not mean that I will defend it in this area. So when EA screwed up with the life stages of the sims it has killed the immersion. There are other things missing but this one is the most important.
Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
A base game feature is everything that is in the base game. So, for example, in TS4, toilets are base game features; ovens are a base game feature; toddlers are a... oh, wait... nevermind!
I could list some, but it seems like that would just be my opinion, because it seems everyone has different ideas to what should be base game. The ones that get mentioned the most, that are not really base features are, cars, CASt and open world. I see toddlers as a grey zone type of thing.
Yeah, those get thrown out a lot. Cars are definitely not base game. Shouldn't even be discussed and it will likely be added later. Like I said, CASt was in Sims 3 but it wasn't promised and it made the game laggy for a lot of people- I'm not crying that it's gone. Open world, I think people got used to in Sims 3 because it was nice to multitask with multiple sims. But there is a lot of system issues that come along with it. It also wasn't promised. There are a lot of people who still play Sims 2, who prefer it over 3 regardless of open world...
Sims 4 just probably needs more to do on your lot to compensate.
You're right that it is a matter of opinion. But I do like to see logical reasons WHY, not just a point blank complaint.
The whole teenager thing is sad. I can't wait for them to add teenage specific things, like prom. They're no different from young adults/adults- in fact sometimes they're a little more fun/risqué it doesn't make sense.
I didn't read through the thread but this kinda topic is reciepe for disaster and I'm sure I can just imagine the conversatsions.
I would argue anything that has been in the base game for 2 or more series is considered a base game feature. Pools have been in each one, the "generations" of life stages have been in since Sims 2, and YA was added 6 months later but was specific to University (there was no YA age if you didn't go to college).
Typically over the years, major "concepts" or breakthroughs for the game were being added within the next base game. For instance, cars were such a huge hit in Sims 2, they were part of the base game.
I am the first to admit that Sims 2 was a work in progress. The Forums gave feedback (what y'all call hate) to the guru's who made our visions come through. Vacations, Seasons, Apartments all those ideas were Simmers requesting that gameplay. University, OFB was all there doing. Sims Unleashed was also a result of our feedback.
Somwhere along the line EA got the idea they had all the answers and know what we want by how we play. Yeah, I play on the longest life span, but that doesn't mean my toddlers last 47 days. They last 21 in my game. Everything is different for every simmer and taking "statistical output" from data that NOT ALL USERS ALLOW, is what gives you a base game.
Did they think because we only used pools for like 35% of the play time it means we don't use them? No... Sims 3 has Seasons, thus you wouldn't go swimming in late fall/winter/early spring would you? It's there stupidity in how they approach what we want. Why don't you guys listen? LOL It's ridiculous. They only seem to listen to those on twitter to reinforce the choices are getting "positive feedback" while the forums are in a constant stat of flux.
See, I know if I join twitter and tweet "where is this that and the other thing" I'm gonna get no comment, can't talk if any response at all. If I go "Wow Cool Kitchen is so Cool! What colors do the skirt come in?" yeah, I'll get that answered.
Cherry picking at it's finest going on.
And I feel like Rachel has got to go. I dont mean fired, but she doesn't belong on the Sims I feel like. She seemed to know nothing about GT in that interview posted on SimsVIP she kept looking to Lyndsay like "Am I right?"
Do you want a definition? I would say a base game feature is one that has been included in the base games of previous versions, and/or has been promised for future versions.
For example, many people complained that the color wheel was excluded as a missing feature, but it wasn't a base game feature. Sure it was included in Sims 3 but it added a ton of lag and bogged everything down, and it can be replaced with a different system.
Toddlers were included in games 2 and 3. Yes, they weren't in the first game. But the first game also didn't have kids aging into adults- they were kids forever. So, Sims 2 set a standard for how aging and life stages would be from now on. The only thing that would maybe deviate from this standard would be progressive aging without clear stages (baby, toddler, child etc). In fact, Toddlers were promised to be included in Sims 4. They weren't. I wouldn't include young adult a base game feature, because it was added much later on from an expansion pack and also they're more/less the same as adults.
With pools, they have been in games 1-3. A lot of people (admittedly, a bit demented), would buy the game solely to kill sims with the pool... Surrounding it by walls, etc. so to not include it in the base game, when it has been in previous versions, was a screw up. But they fixed that.
Does the term get thrown around a lot? Yeah, it does. But I think it's reasonable to consider toddlers a feature that has been included in base games, and to expect them to be in future installments. They messed up.
Maybe we should discuss the "base game features" that are not really base game features. Keffers, could you please list some? And toddlers just don't fit in that list.
I would say that toddlers are probably the main "base game feature" missing from The Sims 4, as well as the biggest. To me, "base game content" is whatever is required to set the game play in motion, to build a foundation for future expansions/content. In a game that's designed to emphasize social interactions, venues like bars and lounges, with professional bars, are required. Pools and dishwashers, not necessarily (though they did correct the pool omission pretty quickly -- I think it was probably some sort of routing glitch that resulted in the pool delay, remember some mods causing Sims to walk on water?). In a non-open world cars are not a necessity, whereas in an open world like Sims 3 they were required for game play.
I think the biggest mistake Sims 3 made, that's been continued in Sims 4, is having young adults as a distinct age group rather than limited to a University pack. Though I did like the way Sims 3 handled University by allowing any age group (YA and up) to go to University, rather than limiting it to a one-time thing; I felt sorry for my older families in Sims 2 where the parents never had the chance to go to University to better themselves (like Brandi Broke after her husband died). If there was more of a distinction between young adults and adults it might be better; something like adults having more trouble getting pregnant so you'd have to decide if your Sim could keep partying or if they needed to settle down and start their family, or maybe an easier time with promotions. In Sims 3, we got the Midlife Crisis but that was only in Generations -- there really wasn't any thing that separated one age group from another. At least with CASt I could give my adult Sims a few streaks of grey/white hair especially the dark-haired Sims.
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I didn't read through the thread but this kinda topic is reciepe for disaster and I'm sure I can just imagine the conversatsions.
I would argue anything that has been in the base game for 2 or more series is considered a base game feature. Pools have been in each one, the "generations" of life stages have been in since Sims 2, and YA was added 6 months later but was specific to University (there was no YA age if you didn't go to college).
Typically over the years, major "concepts" or breakthroughs for the game were being added within the next base game. For instance, cars were such a huge hit in Sims 2, they were part of the base game.
I am the first to admit that Sims 2 was a work in progress. The Forums gave feedback (what y'all call hate) to the guru's who made our visions come through. Vacations, Seasons, Apartments all those ideas were Simmers requesting that gameplay. University, OFB was all there doing. Sims Unleashed was also a result of our feedback.
Somwhere along the line EA got the idea they had all the answers and know what we want by how we play. Yeah, I play on the longest life span, but that doesn't mean my toddlers last 47 days. They last 21 in my game. Everything is different for every simmer and taking "statistical output" from data that NOT ALL USERS ALLOW, is what gives you a base game.
Did they think because we only used pools for like 35% of the play time it means we don't use them? No... Sims 3 has Seasons, thus you wouldn't go swimming in late fall/winter/early spring would you? It's there stupidity in how they approach what we want. Why don't you guys listen? LOL It's ridiculous. They only seem to listen to those on twitter to reinforce the choices are getting "positive feedback" while the forums are in a constant stat of flux.
See, I know if I join twitter and tweet "where is this that and the other thing" I'm gonna get no comment, can't talk if any response at all. If I go "Wow Cool Kitchen is so Cool! What colors do the skirt come in?" yeah, I'll get that answered.
Cherry picking at it's finest going on.
And I feel like Rachel has got to go. I dont mean fired, but she doesn't belong on the Sims I feel like. She seemed to know nothing about GT in that interview posted on SimsVIP she kept looking to Lyndsay like "Am I right?"
I watched that interview and maybe it was just me but actually at the beginning Lyndsay looked aggravated with Rachel. They lightened up later, but I saw Lyndsay give Rachel a few looks in the very beginning of it. ..like let me have that microphone sort of look.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I could list some, but it seems like that would just be my opinion, because it seems everyone has different ideas to what should be base game. The ones that get mentioned the most, that are not really base features are, cars, CASt and open world. I see toddlers as a grey zone type of thing.
Yeah, those get thrown out a lot. Cars are definitely not base game. Shouldn't even be discussed and it will likely be added later. Like I said, CASt was in Sims 3 but it wasn't promised and it made the game laggy for a lot of people- I'm not crying that it's gone. Open world, I think people got used to in Sims 3 because it was nice to multitask with multiple sims. But there is a lot of system issues that come along with it. It also wasn't promised. There are a lot of people who still play Sims 2, who prefer it over 3 regardless of open world...
Sims 4 just probably needs more to do on your lot to compensate.
You're right that it is a matter of opinion. But I do like to see logical reasons WHY, not just a point blank complaint.
But Car pools and roads was always a base game feature as well as buses for school and certain jobs... that are also missing in Sims 4. Other missing base game features, kids and sims could have pillow fights, play tag etc with their children, children dancing with parents. Cemeteries were always a part of the even the first sims game and not now. Swing sets, normal size doll houses, and carry around stuffed bears was always available in every base game - along with pools, dishwashers, garbage disposal, toaster ovens, Social workers, baby sitters, burglars, firemen, police, Repo person, proper maids, house phones, proper telescope for child age and up. Some sort of stores were in the former base games - usually a book store and grocery store and public pools that are not in Sims 4 among many other things.
The only life stage not in the base game that was added by an ep was YA's in Sims 2, and because they were added in an ep - they could not be in the home world but only seen when a teen sim went to University.
The Original Sims game only had infant, child, and adults period with no aging and the Sims worked or went to school 7 days a week with no days off from school or work. Of course all that changed in Sims 2 once they added toddlers, teens, and elders to become a new staple base game play characters along with weekends off from work and school, proper size teens, and aging life cycles. Sims 1 had no aging other than the child aging from infant - then it stayed a child forever.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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Comments
2. it would have been at least honest
i play this game for 15 years now
i am on those forums now "complaining" since march first
complaining is not the game i have paid for,
also not waiting for the gameplay of sims
& also not believing the promisses of the devs
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Don't forget the forum rules are on the forum- go find 'em!
Again, it was always your intention to try to get that rise out of people from the beginning of the thread.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt initially but as things progressed, your intentions became really obvious.
Then why do you continue to linger? If this thread is so terrible, you can leave.
Because its a public forum and you don't get personal space on it to be deliberately annoying with no recourse.
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But I think these are the right answer
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity....
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And if it weren't the law I guess car manufacturers can not include seat belts with their cars or electronic companies can start making black & white TV's again and I'm sure you'll quick get in line to buy those as quick as you get in line to buy more things from EA.
For example, many people complained that the color wheel was excluded as a missing feature, but it wasn't a base game feature. Sure it was included in Sims 3 but it added a ton of lag and bogged everything down, and it can be replaced with a different system.
Toddlers were included in games 2 and 3. Yes, they weren't in the first game. But the first game also didn't have kids aging into adults- they were kids forever. So, Sims 2 set a standard for how aging and life stages would be from now on. The only thing that would maybe deviate from this standard would be progressive aging without clear stages (baby, toddler, child etc). In fact, Toddlers were promised to be included in Sims 4. They weren't. I wouldn't include young adult a base game feature, because it was added much later on from an expansion pack and also they're more/less the same as adults.
With pools, they have been in games 1-3. A lot of people (admittedly, a bit demented), would buy the game solely to kill sims with the pool... Surrounding it by walls, etc. so to not include it in the base game, when it has been in previous versions, was a screw up. But they fixed that.
Does the term get thrown around a lot? Yeah, it does. But I think it's reasonable to consider toddlers a feature that has been included in base games, and to expect them to be in future installments. They messed up.
Maybe we should discuss the "base game features" that are not really base game features. Keffers, could you please list some? And toddlers just don't fit in that list.
Yeah, but a video game doesn't require me to control a couple of tons of metal in a public space. I can also drive the sims after half a bottle of malt - it helps
Video games are another form of entertainment and all forms of entertainment constantly reinvent itself. Sometimes for purposes of art, sometimes to make money, sometimes both. I don't have a pop at The Killing crime drama because DeNiro didn't shoot the bad guy in the face at the end.
EA own the Sims. They say what a base game is. Doesn't matter whether we agree or not. They may listen, they may not, they may take notice, they may not.
Seems clear cut to me.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity....
The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
buffet tables. Just as one example.
I know you are late to the party, but I beg to differ with you. The Sims set the standard and let me know if it's o.k. for you next time when they leave out a TV, phone, and stereo. Basic modern day life luxuries. Or maybe a commode next time to charge you in SP. I know you love the TS4 but find some things you want changed but for the most part pretty happy with it. But, I'm sorry, excuses like yours just adds to EA's milking machine.
Fixed a sentence which read worse than I meant. lol
They didn't sell back pools at least, and I still think toddlers will be in a free patch (because they'll sell a lot more toddler stuff that way). Seems like with some of the items, like pools or dishwashers, they really didn't get how important those little things were -- once they found out, we got them for free.
But Sims 4 has content in the base game that wasn't in Sims 3 base game (I'm using that as the most recent example). Professional bars and bar venues (and Mixology skill) didn't come until Late Night, neither did pianos (and children couldn't play pianos!). Violins were a Sims 3 Store item. Chemistry set came with Generations (though that one was able to be used by adults as well as children). Reading to children came with Generations (and you could only read them bedtime stories, though having them fall asleep in the middle was kind of cute). We don't have swings and slides, but we have jungle gyms and monkey bars.
So yes, there was base game content from previous Sims games missing in Sims 4 -- but we got content that was only in EPs or the Store in Sims 3. I'd say it's balanced out fairly well overall.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
And as you differ with them, I differ with you in sharing their opinion. While the Sims is a game about the player's choices to do whatever they want, it's still a game, and video games are always developed with the producers', developers' and publishers' interests at heart. Whatever EA and Maxis choose to include/exclude in a base game is simply not in our power.
Maybe what they want the game to be isn't what we want the game to be. We can voice our opinions all we want, but at the end of the day, the ball is always in their court. I am quite tired of all the bickering and complaining because I actually enjoy the game as it is. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.
They are in the game because you aren't going to get the standard EP repeats we have gotten the last fifteen years. You won't be seeing a Hot Date, Nightlife, or Late Night. No need for it, you already have bars and clubs. This game is on the piecemeal train to DLC concepts. Not actually themes. There is a big difference. You won't be seeing Pets EP or even a Seasons EP like in TS2 and TS3. But more like visit an area that always has snow.
That's why your base game has something not in TS3's base, because those EPs aren't coming but concepts for more social type game play as in the TS4 base is what is coming. No real 'theme'.
*This is Sims 4 not Sims- We're Starting Over
* I can agree that Emotions are in our face now- they're plastered in the corners with the Sim thumbnail.
* Some forget that for 5 years players were asking and begging and complaining about a lot of Stuff in TS3 and instead of improving, they just dropped it.
The De facto standard, perhaps. I would find it hard to argue against that, but precedence doesn't always make a thing true. EA owns the sims, lock, stock and barrel. What they say goes.
As for the other stuff. Of course, I want all that stuff you mentioned and a whole pile of other stuff, much of which is rarely, if ever, asked for on here. I'd swap all that stuff you mentioned for an advanced UI that would allow me to tweak the game balance on the fly, for example.
As for me being OK with the method of sales, pricing. No, I'm not. There is a whole huge, monstrous pile of stuff in life, and this game that I am not OK with, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what is defined as a base game.
As I have said in another post, I always feel a bit dirty after buying DLC.
Oh, and I am always late to parties
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity....
The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
Lets be clear here, I will not mention anything else but the core thing, the core base game features.
This game is named Sims and it is about them, about their lives.
The game was released with undefined lifestages, there was no focus on the how a sim transitions from a life stage to another. This is not the case with the past sims except Sims 1.
This game lacks the defined life stages that previous games had.
Baby: Its an object, you dont interact with it but with the bassinet
Toddlers: Are not there and this made simmers so angry till date
Children: Very cute and nice but they can hardly play with each other like in TS2
Teenagers: They are missing in this game. For cutting costs they decided to make them as the adult
These are not small problems but big ones that EA did not address. so core features in this game has been messed with. I love the game but that does not mean that I will defend it in this area. So when EA screwed up with the life stages of the sims it has killed the immersion. There are other things missing but this one is the most important.
Yeah, those get thrown out a lot. Cars are definitely not base game. Shouldn't even be discussed and it will likely be added later. Like I said, CASt was in Sims 3 but it wasn't promised and it made the game laggy for a lot of people- I'm not crying that it's gone. Open world, I think people got used to in Sims 3 because it was nice to multitask with multiple sims. But there is a lot of system issues that come along with it. It also wasn't promised. There are a lot of people who still play Sims 2, who prefer it over 3 regardless of open world...
Sims 4 just probably needs more to do on your lot to compensate.
You're right that it is a matter of opinion. But I do like to see logical reasons WHY, not just a point blank complaint.
I would argue anything that has been in the base game for 2 or more series is considered a base game feature. Pools have been in each one, the "generations" of life stages have been in since Sims 2, and YA was added 6 months later but was specific to University (there was no YA age if you didn't go to college).
Typically over the years, major "concepts" or breakthroughs for the game were being added within the next base game. For instance, cars were such a huge hit in Sims 2, they were part of the base game.
I am the first to admit that Sims 2 was a work in progress. The Forums gave feedback (what y'all call hate) to the guru's who made our visions come through. Vacations, Seasons, Apartments all those ideas were Simmers requesting that gameplay. University, OFB was all there doing. Sims Unleashed was also a result of our feedback.
Somwhere along the line EA got the idea they had all the answers and know what we want by how we play. Yeah, I play on the longest life span, but that doesn't mean my toddlers last 47 days. They last 21 in my game. Everything is different for every simmer and taking "statistical output" from data that NOT ALL USERS ALLOW, is what gives you a base game.
Did they think because we only used pools for like 35% of the play time it means we don't use them? No... Sims 3 has Seasons, thus you wouldn't go swimming in late fall/winter/early spring would you? It's there stupidity in how they approach what we want. Why don't you guys listen? LOL It's ridiculous. They only seem to listen to those on twitter to reinforce the choices are getting "positive feedback" while the forums are in a constant stat of flux.
See, I know if I join twitter and tweet "where is this that and the other thing" I'm gonna get no comment, can't talk if any response at all. If I go "Wow Cool Kitchen is so Cool! What colors do the skirt come in?" yeah, I'll get that answered.
Cherry picking at it's finest going on.
And I feel like Rachel has got to go. I dont mean fired, but she doesn't belong on the Sims I feel like. She seemed to know nothing about GT in that interview posted on SimsVIP she kept looking to Lyndsay like "Am I right?"
I would say that toddlers are probably the main "base game feature" missing from The Sims 4, as well as the biggest. To me, "base game content" is whatever is required to set the game play in motion, to build a foundation for future expansions/content. In a game that's designed to emphasize social interactions, venues like bars and lounges, with professional bars, are required. Pools and dishwashers, not necessarily (though they did correct the pool omission pretty quickly -- I think it was probably some sort of routing glitch that resulted in the pool delay, remember some mods causing Sims to walk on water?). In a non-open world cars are not a necessity, whereas in an open world like Sims 3 they were required for game play.
I think the biggest mistake Sims 3 made, that's been continued in Sims 4, is having young adults as a distinct age group rather than limited to a University pack. Though I did like the way Sims 3 handled University by allowing any age group (YA and up) to go to University, rather than limiting it to a one-time thing; I felt sorry for my older families in Sims 2 where the parents never had the chance to go to University to better themselves (like Brandi Broke after her husband died). If there was more of a distinction between young adults and adults it might be better; something like adults having more trouble getting pregnant so you'd have to decide if your Sim could keep partying or if they needed to settle down and start their family, or maybe an easier time with promotions. In Sims 3, we got the Midlife Crisis but that was only in Generations -- there really wasn't any thing that separated one age group from another. At least with CASt I could give my adult Sims a few streaks of grey/white hair especially the dark-haired Sims.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I watched that interview and maybe it was just me but actually at the beginning Lyndsay looked aggravated with Rachel. They lightened up later, but I saw Lyndsay give Rachel a few looks in the very beginning of it. ..like let me have that microphone sort of look.
But Car pools and roads was always a base game feature as well as buses for school and certain jobs... that are also missing in Sims 4. Other missing base game features, kids and sims could have pillow fights, play tag etc with their children, children dancing with parents. Cemeteries were always a part of the even the first sims game and not now. Swing sets, normal size doll houses, and carry around stuffed bears was always available in every base game - along with pools, dishwashers, garbage disposal, toaster ovens, Social workers, baby sitters, burglars, firemen, police, Repo person, proper maids, house phones, proper telescope for child age and up. Some sort of stores were in the former base games - usually a book store and grocery store and public pools that are not in Sims 4 among many other things.
The only life stage not in the base game that was added by an ep was YA's in Sims 2, and because they were added in an ep - they could not be in the home world but only seen when a teen sim went to University.
The Original Sims game only had infant, child, and adults period with no aging and the Sims worked or went to school 7 days a week with no days off from school or work. Of course all that changed in Sims 2 once they added toddlers, teens, and elders to become a new staple base game play characters along with weekends off from work and school, proper size teens, and aging life cycles. Sims 1 had no aging other than the child aging from infant - then it stayed a child forever.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....