The term "base game feature" is pretty subjective, a more appropriate term would be standard feature. That entitles a feature that is generally regarded as a huge innovation or addition that you would expect to be continued in some form in future installments.
I see toddlers as a standard feature, they were introduced 10 years ago and I expected them to be included in The Sims 4. I consider all of the age groups a standard feature, even YA simply because it was added to the lifespan in The Sims 3. When it comes down to it there is a reason we have all of the ages we do, and that's because EA/Maxis has deemed them as content that is standard to the game. Had this game not been rushed to store shelves we probably would have toddlers.
I honestly thought that the customization features of The Sims 3 would be carried forward and improved upon, same with the open world. However neither one of those features made it into the game, that doesn't change the fact that they were a significant addition to the franchise, and it's clear that many other people felt the same way. When The Sims 5 releases I won't be surprised if they include CASt in some form, and maybe even a better designed open world. Like I said earlier, The Sims 4 was a rushed game, I'm sure if they had the full development time to develop the game as offline we would have a totally different game than we do now.
Things like dishwashers and hot tubs are more or less just content. There's no reason why those things couldn't be included in every base game, but they aren't a major selling point like a feature would be. I will say that dishwashers should come in a base game, as they represent some basic content that every game has had, that really isn't too complex to implement compared to other content.
Drivable cars really aren't a standard feature to me, as they can be added in an expansion pack. However, taxi's, carpools, and school buses ARE basic content. This is the only base game that has not included a transportation system, and instead uses teleportation for sims to get from point A to point B. So the likelihood of us getting "drivable cars" isn't very good when the game itself doesn't support non-drivable cars. It's all fake deco and is very unlikely to change.
If "Standard Feature" is a more palatable phrase, then I'm fine with it because at this point is becomes a matter of semantics. I agree with pretty much all you said but I've always used "Base Game Feature" when it come to the Sims because Standard Features can be used interchangeably with the base or an expansion pack.
Maybe Im viewing it wrong but to me, pets are not a base game feature but are a standard feature in a pets expansion.
I agree. Each pack has it's own "standard feature" an example would be weather in seasons, and pets in a pets EP. I was using standard as a broader term speaking toward the franchise as a whole and not really individual base games. So while The Sims 2 had aliens, that technically was a base game feature for The Sims 2, but not a standard feature across the board for all sims base games that came after it. They, for the most part, are pretty interchangeable though.
I absolutely see your point here. That's why I do prefer Base game Feature when we are addressing a base game within the sims series.
Alright, I 100% agree. Hopefully my blurbs aren't super confusing, I see the term base game content thrown around willy nilly on these boards. Especially when a specific feature was iffy on being standard/base content (ie. Hot tubs, and drivable cars). I think a lot of players expect a certain level of content to be included at the base level, even when that content wasn't always introduced when a base game launched.
Not at all
I actually enjoy discussing these types of things here with people, like yourself, that can be objective and not just arguing or disagreeing for the sake of doing so.
Absolutely!
There is a lot of animosity here, not because people are hateful here, but because the game is uneven in what it offers. To some players the game offers a rich experience, and to others it doesn't quite offer what the past 2 games did. I'm all for discussions for both directions, but the negativity and trolling (from both players who like the game, and those who don't) makes constructive conversation a difficult thing to accomplish.
I've enjoyed reading both your discussions on this subject. You've raised points I was trying to make.
well based on your logic and your post sequels can "drop" the previous games without need be a reboot that is it?
if is that then your logic of sequel is terrible fail and that is a big point, you are using a argument when forget another which also is important which is the fact which sims 4 is a SEQUELE then until sequel stop to being what we know is a seguel then you are pointless.
The term "base game feature" is pretty subjective, a more appropriate term would be standard feature. That entitles a feature that is generally regarded as a huge innovation or addition that you would expect to be continued in some form in future installments.
I see toddlers as a standard feature, they were introduced 10 years ago and I expected them to be included in The Sims 4. I consider all of the age groups a standard feature, even YA simply because it was added to the lifespan in The Sims 3. When it comes down to it there is a reason we have all of the ages we do, and that's because EA/Maxis has deemed them as content that is standard to the game. Had this game not been rushed to store shelves we probably would have toddlers.
I honestly thought that the customization features of The Sims 3 would be carried forward and improved upon, same with the open world. However neither one of those features made it into the game, that doesn't change the fact that they were a significant addition to the franchise, and it's clear that many other people felt the same way. When The Sims 5 releases I won't be surprised if they include CASt in some form, and maybe even a better designed open world. Like I said earlier, The Sims 4 was a rushed game, I'm sure if they had the full development time to develop the game as offline we would have a totally different game than we do now.
Things like dishwashers and hot tubs are more or less just content. There's no reason why those things couldn't be included in every base game, but they aren't a major selling point like a feature would be. I will say that dishwashers should come in a base game, as they represent some basic content that every game has had, that really isn't too complex to implement compared to other content.
Drivable cars really aren't a standard feature to me, as they can be added in an expansion pack. However, taxi's, carpools, and school buses ARE basic content. This is the only base game that has not included a transportation system, and instead uses teleportation for sims to get from point A to point B. So the likelihood of us getting "drivable cars" isn't very good when the game itself doesn't support non-drivable cars. It's all fake deco and is very unlikely to change.
If "Standard Feature" is a more palatable phrase, then I'm fine with it because at this point is becomes a matter of semantics. I agree with pretty much all you said but I've always used "Base Game Feature" when it come to the Sims because Standard Features can be used interchangeably with the base or an expansion pack.
Maybe Im viewing it wrong but to me, pets are not a base game feature but are a standard feature in a pets expansion.
I agree. Each pack has it's own "standard feature" an example would be weather in seasons, and pets in a pets EP. I was using standard as a broader term speaking toward the franchise as a whole and not really individual base games. So while The Sims 2 had aliens, that technically was a base game feature for The Sims 2, but not a standard feature across the board for all sims base games that came after it. They, for the most part, are pretty interchangeable though.
I absolutely see your point here. That's why I do prefer Base game Feature when we are addressing a base game within the sims series.
Alright, I 100% agree. Hopefully my blurbs aren't super confusing, I see the term base game content thrown around willy nilly on these boards. Especially when a specific feature was iffy on being standard/base content (ie. Hot tubs, and drivable cars). I think a lot of players expect a certain level of content to be included at the base level, even when that content wasn't always introduced when a base game launched.
Not at all
I actually enjoy discussing these types of things here with people, like yourself, that can be objective and not just arguing or disagreeing for the sake of doing so.
Absolutely!
There is a lot of animosity here, not because people are hateful here, but because the game is uneven in what it offers. To some players the game offers a rich experience, and to others it doesn't quite offer what the past 2 games did. I'm all for discussions for both directions, but the negativity and trolling (from both players who like the game, and those who don't) makes constructive conversation a difficult thing to accomplish.
I've enjoyed reading both your discussions on this subject. You've raised points I was trying to make.
well based on your logic and your post sequels can "drop" the previous games without need be a reboot that is it?
No. You've missed the point. I'm discussing what "base game content" means and how people use it so freely. I never said that toddlers shouldn't be included, or anything to that effect. I asked if they can be classed as base game content.
They will be added later, like they were in Sims 2. Maybe not buses (I would like to see then back!). We'll see. But our gameplay is not literally hurting from the lack of them.
Says you.
Exactly. The lack of all things breaks the immersion for many.
The term "base game feature" is pretty subjective, a more appropriate term would be standard feature. That entitles a feature that is generally regarded as a huge innovation or addition that you would expect to be continued in some form in future installments.
I see toddlers as a standard feature, they were introduced 10 years ago and I expected them to be included in The Sims 4. I consider all of the age groups a standard feature, even YA simply because it was added to the lifespan in The Sims 3. When it comes down to it there is a reason we have all of the ages we do, and that's because EA/Maxis has deemed them as content that is standard to the game. Had this game not been rushed to store shelves we probably would have toddlers.
I honestly thought that the customization features of The Sims 3 would be carried forward and improved upon, same with the open world. However neither one of those features made it into the game, that doesn't change the fact that they were a significant addition to the franchise, and it's clear that many other people felt the same way. When The Sims 5 releases I won't be surprised if they include CASt in some form, and maybe even a better designed open world. Like I said earlier, The Sims 4 was a rushed game, I'm sure if they had the full development time to develop the game as offline we would have a totally different game than we do now.
Things like dishwashers and hot tubs are more or less just content. There's no reason why those things couldn't be included in every base game, but they aren't a major selling point like a feature would be. I will say that dishwashers should come in a base game, as they represent some basic content that every game has had, that really isn't too complex to implement compared to other content.
Drivable cars really aren't a standard feature to me, as they can be added in an expansion pack. However, taxi's, carpools, and school buses ARE basic content. This is the only base game that has not included a transportation system, and instead uses teleportation for sims to get from point A to point B. So the likelihood of us getting "drivable cars" isn't very good when the game itself doesn't support non-drivable cars. It's all fake deco and is very unlikely to change.
If "Standard Feature" is a more palatable phrase, then I'm fine with it because at this point is becomes a matter of semantics. I agree with pretty much all you said but I've always used "Base Game Feature" when it come to the Sims because Standard Features can be used interchangeably with the base or an expansion pack.
Maybe Im viewing it wrong but to me, pets are not a base game feature but are a standard feature in a pets expansion.
I agree. Each pack has it's own "standard feature" an example would be weather in seasons, and pets in a pets EP. I was using standard as a broader term speaking toward the franchise as a whole and not really individual base games. So while The Sims 2 had aliens, that technically was a base game feature for The Sims 2, but not a standard feature across the board for all sims base games that came after it. They, for the most part, are pretty interchangeable though.
I absolutely see your point here. That's why I do prefer Base game Feature when we are addressing a base game within the sims series.
Alright, I 100% agree. Hopefully my blurbs aren't super confusing, I see the term base game content thrown around willy nilly on these boards. Especially when a specific feature was iffy on being standard/base content (ie. Hot tubs, and drivable cars). I think a lot of players expect a certain level of content to be included at the base level, even when that content wasn't always introduced when a base game launched.
Not at all
I actually enjoy discussing these types of things here with people, like yourself, that can be objective and not just arguing or disagreeing for the sake of doing so.
Absolutely!
There is a lot of animosity here, not because people are hateful here, but because the game is uneven in what it offers. To some players the game offers a rich experience, and to others it doesn't quite offer what the past 2 games did. I'm all for discussions for both directions, but the negativity and trolling (from both players who like the game, and those who don't) makes constructive conversation a difficult thing to accomplish.
I've enjoyed reading both your discussions on this subject. You've raised points I was trying to make.
well based on your logic and your post sequels can "drop" the previous games without need be a reboot that is it?
No. You've missed the point. I'm discussing what "base game content" means and how people use it so freely. I never said that toddlers shouldn't be included, or anything to that effect. I asked if they can be classed as base game content.
and sequel is your answer to "why they must be classified as base game", cuz sims 4 is a sequel game in sims series and inn previous games they where in base game then since this is a sequel they where supposed to be on base game, need be more "specific than this???.
you are trying to act like sims 4 is a "stand alone game" which is not the case, if sims 4 was a stand alone, a spin off or a reboot then yeah they could not need to add that things because he will be "unique' in that way but it's not this case.
you are trying to act like sims 4 is a "stand alone game" which is not the case, if sims 4 was a stand alone, a spin off or a reboot then yeah they could not need to add that things because he will be "unique' in that way but it's not this case.
Sims 4 IS a standalone game. The rest of your post is a little messy and hard to understand, but the first part is pretty clear and let me say it again:
Sims 4 IS a standalone game.
you are trying to act like sims 4 is a "stand alone game" which is not the case, if sims 4 was a stand alone, a spin off or a reboot then yeah they could not need to add that things because he will be "unique' in that way but it's not this case.
Sims 4 IS a standalone game. The rest of your post is a little messy and hard to understand, but the first part is pretty clear and let me say it again:
Sims 4 IS a standalone game.
well let's change the word, sims 4 is a sequel not a pre-quel not a reboot and neither a spin-off, i used wrong word
and even with that in mind sims 4 is not a stand alone in the sense which you need packs to have it complete, stand alone games don't need antyhing to feel "complete" dlcs are things to increase the game not "complete it".
you are trying to act like sims 4 is a "stand alone game" which is not the case, if sims 4 was a stand alone, a spin off or a reboot then yeah they could not need to add that things because he will be "unique' in that way but it's not this case.
Sims 4 IS a standalone game. The rest of your post is a little messy and hard to understand, but the first part is pretty clear and let me say it again:
Sims 4 IS a standalone game.
you are trying to act like sims 4 is a "stand alone game" which is not the case, if sims 4 was a stand alone, a spin off or a reboot then yeah they could not need to add that things because he will be "unique' in that way but it's not this case.
Sims 4 IS a standalone game. The rest of your post is a little messy and hard to understand, but the first part is pretty clear and let me say it again:
Sims 4 IS a standalone game.
So what are TS1, 2, and 3?
yeah when i used stand alone i wanted to means a completly new game aside from the main serie without being a sequel reboot or spin-off.
the sims 4 is part of the main sims series.
@Keffers I don't think you really know what we mean by base game feature. Like, just because Toddlers weren't in The original Sims, they've been in TS2 and TS3. So, you know, the game should have progressed since The original Sims, and Toddlers should have become a base game feature by now. What a base game feature accually is has changed since The Original Sims.
yeah when i used stand alone i wanted to means a completly new game aside from the main serie without being a sequel reboot or spin-off.
the sims 4 is part of the main sims series.
Of course it is. It is also a stand alone game.
The Sims 2, 3 and 4 are stand alone games in the Sims franchise. Just like Sim City 4 is a standalone game in the Sim City franchise. Or FIFA 2015 is a standalone game in the FIFA series.
I just want the newest base game to carry over previous innovations (open world, CASt, SP, etc.) and improve them. I also want recurring expansion themes such as pets and seasons integrated into the base. They've been expansions for three and two cycles now. Patch 'em to the base already and develop new themes in their place.
Lots of people throw around "The Sims 4 is missing key base game features" so I'm wondering, what justifies a base game feature? What is the definition?
A base game feature refers to a feature that came with the base game. That's a base game feature. People are comparing base games and what they came with compared to other base games.
((is there a way to report this thread? more than half of it is just arguing and back and forth tea partying of a few people))
I just am posting though to reply to a comment I saw about the hot tubs. I could be slightly wrong on a technicality; however, in my memory, EVERY versions of the sims1,2, and 3 all didn't have hot tubs until a nightlife expansion was added.
Keep in mind that the previous versions of nightlife for original sims and sims2 didn't have that downtown area. However, they brought the hot tubs as well as some other very fun items.
I have also seen a few people saying seasons and pets should be base items. On the one hand, I personally would think it'd be super logical to have pets as part of the base game. However, that expansion is one of their big sellers. It's why they save that one to be released till halfway into the lifetime of a sim game. 1, 2, and 3 all didn't see Pets released for more than a few years into that game's life. Always has several released before hand. It's totally a money grab move, but Maxis/EA have been demonstrating for a long time now that's their primary business model. It's evident elsewhere in other EA games too; not just this one.
Seasons I think was only in 2 and 3. 3 saw a very different presentation of how seasons work, but you know.. i'm glad it's not part of the base game. I tried it at my sister's house. I like the seasonal events and holidays; but i severely dislike the change of seasons. if you're very into gardening; it's super inconvenient. don't garden in a town where it snows. xD
Also, just wanna comment that open town wasn't a feature of the original base sims. That came with sims2. It is really nice. It's great to be able to see where in town exactly your sim is. I plan my sim's days sometimes by being up in the air over hte town and clicking all the places i want them to go for a little while. What i REALLY like from sims3 is the ability to learn skills at various locations in town. It's a great way to fill up their first week in town. Put some skills under your belt. While I like that; i can also realize they really /aren't/ core or base features.
They are still awesome features, and I might miss them too much. This is why I still haven't graduated up to the sims4 yet. I'll just stick with my sims3 and keep playing happy... (mostly happy anyways... if not for certain glitches ><)
((is there a way to report this thread? more than half of it is just arguing and back and forth tea partying of a few people))
I just am posting though to reply to a comment I saw about the hot tubs. I could be slightly wrong on a technicality; however, in my memory, EVERY versions of the sims1,2, and 3 all didn't have hot tubs until a nightlife expansion was added.
Keep in mind that the previous versions of nightlife for original sims and sims2 didn't have that downtown area. However, they brought the hot tubs as well as some other very fun items.
I have also seen a few people saying seasons and pets should be base items. On the one hand, I personally would think it'd be super logical to have pets as part of the base game. However, that expansion is one of their big sellers. It's why they save that one to be released till halfway into the lifetime of a sim game. 1, 2, and 3 all didn't see Pets released for more than a few years into that game's life. Always has several released before hand. It's totally a money grab move, but Maxis/EA have been demonstrating for a long time now that's their primary business model. It's evident elsewhere in other EA games too; not just this one.
Seasons I think was only in 2 and 3. 3 saw a very different presentation of how seasons work, but you know.. i'm glad it's not part of the base game. I tried it at my sister's house. I like the seasonal events and holidays; but i severely dislike the change of seasons. if you're very into gardening; it's super inconvenient. don't garden in a town where it snows. xD
Also, just wanna comment that open town wasn't a feature of the original base sims. That came with sims2. It is really nice. It's great to be able to see where in town exactly your sim is. I plan my sim's days sometimes by being up in the air over hte town and clicking all the places i want them to go for a little while. What i REALLY like from sims3 is the ability to learn skills at various locations in town. It's a great way to fill up their first week in town. Put some skills under your belt. While I like that; i can also realize they really /aren't/ core or base features.
They are still awesome features, and I might miss them too much. This is why I still haven't graduated up to the sims4 yet. I'll just stick with my sims3 and keep playing happy... (mostly happy anyways... if not for certain glitches >
TS2 had hot tubs in the base game- not only in buy mode but as an aspiration reward for Romance Sims.
I don't remember if The Sims did since I've had the complete collection for too long.
The rest, well, it's our personal view. We all can have one.
People can argue that base game feature is what other iterations in the series had in their base game, but really it's up to Maxis/EA to decide what's a base game feature. As many people in this thread have already, it's their game, not ours. They ultimately decide what's going to be in the game, they decide if they want to listen, ect.
This line of thinking isn't "allowing them to milk us".
Let's be honest for a second, we could scream and shout all we want about countless DLC and how much it costs, but they probably would still milk us, and a lot of us would still buy it. I'm not saying everyone one would, but enough people would buy it to the point where they can continue doing this. We can encourage people to not buy it, but I've still seen people claim not to come back to TS4, and then one month they have every piece of content for it. It's the individuals decision, just like it's EA's decision whether or not they want to listen to us.
I'm not justifying their business mode, but so far it seems to be working for them. As it always, this is my opinion, you're entitled not to like it, but I'm also entitled to keep sharing it.
Maxis makes the game not EA. It's Maxis that makes the game decisions. It's a product~they're not making this for themselves, they're not making it for free, they're not even making it for the good of the world- it's a product and as such they should listen to their customers and their customers should voice their happiness or displeasure. Both are needed and as such, MAXIS will listen to whichever is in line with their product vision.
They'll not get another dollar of mine until this game is up to what I think is fun. I can over look a lot, I did with TS2 and TS3- but I hit my line.
People can argue that base game feature is what other iterations in the series had in their base game, but really it's up to Maxis/EA to decide what's a base game feature. As many people in this thread have already, it's their game, not ours. They ultimately decide what's going to be in the game, they decide if they want to listen, ect.
This line of thinking isn't "allowing them to milk us".
Let's be honest for a second, we could scream and shout all we want about countless DLC and how much it costs, but they probably would still milk us, and a lot of us would still buy it. I'm not saying everyone one would, but enough people would buy it to the point where they can continue doing this. We can encourage people to not buy it, but I've still seen people claim not to come back to TS4, and then one month they have every piece of content for it. It's the individuals decision, just like it's EA's decision whether or not they want to listen to us.
I'm not justifying their business mode, but so far it seems to be working for them. As it always, this is my opinion, you're entitled not to like it, but I'm also entitled to keep sharing it.
i really loved your post, really you summed the reality very well, its up to the customers in the end, if peoples come and say "i not gonna pay any more buckets" then in next day buy everything is not anyone fault and this only give ea/maxis the approval to keep doing it milking even more and more.
it's not like peoples can't do that but is important to they be aware which they are "allowing the companie" steal they moneys, they are being connive with eaxis bad dir t market and they are only helping in things get worsth in the future.
Maxis makes the game not EA. It's Maxis that makes the game decisions. It's a product~they're not making this for themselves, they're not making it for free, they're not even making it for the good of the world- it's a product and as such they should listen to their customers and their customers should voice their happiness or displeasure. Both are needed and as such, MAXIS will listen to whichever is in line with their product vision.
They'll not get another dollar of mine until this game is up to what I think is fun. I can over look a lot, I did with TS2 and TS3- but I hit my line.
Who do you think chooses what goes into the game or how much budget it'll have? It's certainly not the game developers themselves, I know at least that much. EA doesn't make the game, but EA OWNS Maxis, it's ultimately their decision when things get released and if they want Maxis to work on a specific product. If Maxis doesn't listen to EA, then Maxis would probably get shut down.
I just want to say that I'm not against TS4 at all, I actually enjoy the game. It's just that I know it could've been a lot better than it is, but it could get better with time.
Maxis makes the game not EA. It's Maxis that makes the game decisions. It's a product~they're not making this for themselves, they're not making it for free, they're not even making it for the good of the world- it's a product and as such they should listen to their customers and their customers should voice their happiness or displeasure. Both are needed and as such, MAXIS will listen to whichever is in line with their product vision.
They'll not get another dollar of mine until this game is up to what I think is fun. I can over look a lot, I did with TS2 and TS3- but I hit my line.
Who do you think chooses what goes into the game or how much budget it'll have? It's certainly not the game developers themselves, I know at least that much. EA doesn't make the game, but EA OWNS Maxis, it's ultimately their decision when things get released and if they want Maxis to work on a specific product. If Maxis doesn't listen to EA, then Maxis would probably get shut down.
I just want to say that I'm not against TS4 at all, I actually enjoy the game. It's just that I know it could've been a lot better than it is, but it could get better with time.
but it's also don't means which they know when a game is good or bad, or when the develop team give then the game if he gonna sell or not, they just go:
hey maxis we need a sims game now you have x years to make it here the budget
maxis: ok we gonna start... then maxis start to plan what to do then start to work... then some years late game ready
maxis: here the game this game is like that and that and that is adversity for this game
ea: ok we are gonna produce it looks promissor
game releases: bumm!!!!!!!!
ea: 🐸🐸🐸🐸 maxis what was this???
maxis:... too difficult and expensive
joke aside is like that how normally work, otherwise if ea really could know if the game was good or no they never could had problems with battlefild or dragon age or simcity and others games, again the only ones which full knowledge about the game is maxis, ea just take a look around with they "not gamers glasses" and will accept because they really don't know nothing about games just about how to put the hands on games otherwise they not keep trying to buy every game develop to work for then if they true have knowledge over game design.
Maxis makes the game not EA. It's Maxis that makes the game decisions. It's a product~they're not making this for themselves, they're not making it for free, they're not even making it for the good of the world- it's a product and as such they should listen to their customers and their customers should voice their happiness or displeasure. Both are needed and as such, MAXIS will listen to whichever is in line with their product vision.
They'll not get another dollar of mine until this game is up to what I think is fun. I can over look a lot, I did with TS2 and TS3- but I hit my line.
Who do you think chooses what goes into the game or how much budget it'll have? It's certainly not the game developers themselves, I know at least that much. EA doesn't make the game, but EA OWNS Maxis, it's ultimately their decision when things get released and if they want Maxis to work on a specific product. If Maxis doesn't listen to EA, then Maxis would probably get shut down.
I just want to say that I'm not against TS4 at all, I actually enjoy the game. It's just that I know it could've been a lot better than it is, but it could get better with time.
I think the Maxis Team does choose what goes and what gets cut in the game. EA might hold the purse strings (I don't know) but Maxis is the team that makes it. While EA owns Maxis- yes, I do know this- it's still Maxis that makes the game and has always. The EA suits might want to know the game plan and how it's going with the budget but Maxis is it's own label under EA.
Questioning/challenging someones opinion is not "trying to argue" with them, I'm just trying to get a better understanding. From what people have suggested, the term "base game feature" should be replaced with "key or important features" but even then that's a bit loose.
No, because when a line of product comes with something for over a decade its then safe to call it a base or standard feature.
Seat belts weren't originally offered with cars but now its a standard feature.
You aren't challenging anything, you're just refusing to accept the plain and simple truth of the matter.
This hits the nail on the head. I just got a base model vehicle, it came with power locks and windows, cd and an auxiliary port because those things are just expected now.
Do you want a definition? I would say a base game feature is one that has been included in the base games of previous versions, and/or has been promised for future versions.
For example, many people complained that the color wheel was excluded as a missing feature, but it wasn't a base game feature. Sure it was included in Sims 3 but it added a ton of lag and bogged everything down, and it can be replaced with a different system.
Toddlers were included in games 2 and 3. Yes, they weren't in the first game. But the first game also didn't have kids aging into adults- they were kids forever. So, Sims 2 set a standard for how aging and life stages would be from now on. The only thing that would maybe deviate from this standard would be progressive aging without clear stages (baby, toddler, child etc). In fact, Toddlers were promised to be included in Sims 4. They weren't. I wouldn't include young adult a base game feature, because it was added much later on from an expansion pack and also they're more/less the same as adults.
With pools, they have been in games 1-3. A lot of people (admittedly, a bit demented), would buy the game solely to kill sims with the pool... Surrounding it by walls, etc. so to not include it in the base game, when it has been in previous versions, was a screw up. But they fixed that.
Does the term get thrown around a lot? Yeah, it does. But I think it's reasonable to consider toddlers a feature that has been included in base games, and to expect them to be in future installments. They messed up.
Maybe we should discuss the "base game features" that are not really base game features. Keffers, could you please list some? And toddlers just don't fit in that list.
That middle part is why i believe most of us look at toddlers (or most lifestages) a base game feature. Honestly, YA would be the most arguable basegame feature because it didn't become a "Basegame Feature" until TS3. Regardless, teens, toddlers, and elders imo are basegame features because TS2 created the whole "aging" process in the first place. TS1 is barley valid because not only was it the first game, but because the aging process didn't exist. TS4 has (for the most part) incorporated the 'aging' process that TS2 and TS3 had. Therefore you'd imagine the same basegame ages that started in TS2 & TS3.
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if is that then your logic of sequel is terrible fail and that is a big point, you are using a argument when forget another which also is important which is the fact which sims 4 is a SEQUELE then until sequel stop to being what we know is a seguel then you are pointless.
No. You've missed the point. I'm discussing what "base game content" means and how people use it so freely. I never said that toddlers shouldn't be included, or anything to that effect. I asked if they can be classed as base game content.
Exactly. The lack of all things breaks the immersion for many.
you are trying to act like sims 4 is a "stand alone game" which is not the case, if sims 4 was a stand alone, a spin off or a reboot then yeah they could not need to add that things because he will be "unique' in that way but it's not this case.
Sims 4 IS a standalone game. The rest of your post is a little messy and hard to understand, but the first part is pretty clear and let me say it again:
Sims 4 IS a standalone game.
and even with that in mind sims 4 is not a stand alone in the sense which you need packs to have it complete, stand alone games don't need antyhing to feel "complete" dlcs are things to increase the game not "complete it".
the sims 4 is part of the main sims series.
So Ts4 might have been rather lacking?
Of course it is. It is also a stand alone game.
The Sims 2, 3 and 4 are stand alone games in the Sims franchise. Just like Sim City 4 is a standalone game in the Sim City franchise. Or FIFA 2015 is a standalone game in the FIFA series.
A base game feature refers to a feature that came with the base game. That's a base game feature. People are comparing base games and what they came with compared to other base games.
I just am posting though to reply to a comment I saw about the hot tubs. I could be slightly wrong on a technicality; however, in my memory, EVERY versions of the sims1,2, and 3 all didn't have hot tubs until a nightlife expansion was added.
Keep in mind that the previous versions of nightlife for original sims and sims2 didn't have that downtown area. However, they brought the hot tubs as well as some other very fun items.
I have also seen a few people saying seasons and pets should be base items. On the one hand, I personally would think it'd be super logical to have pets as part of the base game. However, that expansion is one of their big sellers. It's why they save that one to be released till halfway into the lifetime of a sim game. 1, 2, and 3 all didn't see Pets released for more than a few years into that game's life. Always has several released before hand. It's totally a money grab move, but Maxis/EA have been demonstrating for a long time now that's their primary business model. It's evident elsewhere in other EA games too; not just this one.
Seasons I think was only in 2 and 3. 3 saw a very different presentation of how seasons work, but you know.. i'm glad it's not part of the base game. I tried it at my sister's house. I like the seasonal events and holidays; but i severely dislike the change of seasons. if you're very into gardening; it's super inconvenient. don't garden in a town where it snows. xD
Also, just wanna comment that open town wasn't a feature of the original base sims. That came with sims2. It is really nice. It's great to be able to see where in town exactly your sim is. I plan my sim's days sometimes by being up in the air over hte town and clicking all the places i want them to go for a little while. What i REALLY like from sims3 is the ability to learn skills at various locations in town. It's a great way to fill up their first week in town. Put some skills under your belt. While I like that; i can also realize they really /aren't/ core or base features.
They are still awesome features, and I might miss them too much. This is why I still haven't graduated up to the sims4 yet. I'll just stick with my sims3 and keep playing happy... (mostly happy anyways... if not for certain glitches ><)
TS2 had hot tubs in the base game- not only in buy mode but as an aspiration reward for Romance Sims.
I don't remember if The Sims did since I've had the complete collection for too long.
The rest, well, it's our personal view. We all can have one.
This line of thinking isn't "allowing them to milk us".
Let's be honest for a second, we could scream and shout all we want about countless DLC and how much it costs, but they probably would still milk us, and a lot of us would still buy it. I'm not saying everyone one would, but enough people would buy it to the point where they can continue doing this. We can encourage people to not buy it, but I've still seen people claim not to come back to TS4, and then one month they have every piece of content for it. It's the individuals decision, just like it's EA's decision whether or not they want to listen to us.
I'm not justifying their business mode, but so far it seems to be working for them. As it always, this is my opinion, you're entitled not to like it, but I'm also entitled to keep sharing it.
They'll not get another dollar of mine until this game is up to what I think is fun. I can over look a lot, I did with TS2 and TS3- but I hit my line.
i really loved your post, really you summed the reality very well, its up to the customers in the end, if peoples come and say "i not gonna pay any more buckets" then in next day buy everything is not anyone fault and this only give ea/maxis the approval to keep doing it milking even more and more.
it's not like peoples can't do that but is important to they be aware which they are "allowing the companie" steal they moneys, they are being connive with eaxis bad dir t market and they are only helping in things get worsth in the future.
I just want to say that I'm not against TS4 at all, I actually enjoy the game. It's just that I know it could've been a lot better than it is, but it could get better with time.
but it's also don't means which they know when a game is good or bad, or when the develop team give then the game if he gonna sell or not, they just go:
hey maxis we need a sims game now you have x years to make it here the budget
maxis: ok we gonna start... then maxis start to plan what to do then start to work... then some years late game ready
maxis: here the game this game is like that and that and that is adversity for this game
ea: ok we are gonna produce it looks promissor
game releases: bumm!!!!!!!!
ea: 🐸🐸🐸🐸 maxis what was this???
maxis:... too difficult and expensive
joke aside is like that how normally work, otherwise if ea really could know if the game was good or no they never could had problems with battlefild or dragon age or simcity and others games, again the only ones which full knowledge about the game is maxis, ea just take a look around with they "not gamers glasses" and will accept because they really don't know nothing about games just about how to put the hands on games otherwise they not keep trying to buy every game develop to work for then if they true have knowledge over game design.
I think the Maxis Team does choose what goes and what gets cut in the game. EA might hold the purse strings (I don't know) but Maxis is the team that makes it. While EA owns Maxis- yes, I do know this- it's still Maxis that makes the game and has always. The EA suits might want to know the game plan and how it's going with the budget but Maxis is it's own label under EA.
This hits the nail on the head. I just got a base model vehicle, it came with power locks and windows, cd and an auxiliary port because those things are just expected now.
That middle part is why i believe most of us look at toddlers (or most lifestages) a base game feature. Honestly, YA would be the most arguable basegame feature because it didn't become a "Basegame Feature" until TS3. Regardless, teens, toddlers, and elders imo are basegame features because TS2 created the whole "aging" process in the first place. TS1 is barley valid because not only was it the first game, but because the aging process didn't exist. TS4 has (for the most part) incorporated the 'aging' process that TS2 and TS3 had. Therefore you'd imagine the same basegame ages that started in TS2 & TS3.