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I'm not sure I understand autonomy
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But that's what the sims has always been about. Keeping our little virtual people alive and happy. It used to be a lot more difficult than it has been in the last 2 of the series. At least 4 is a little harder than 3 was in that respect. But still not nearly as hard as 1 or 2.
I really don't want it to get too easy again.
I actually like that it's harder. 3 was too easy that it bored me.
What I would like to see is a learning type of autonomy. For example, if my sim uses the work bench frequently, I want to see them do it on their own as well. If they're handy, I want to see them fix things on their own. I want to see that with everything. I do see it with some things, but I'd like to see them actually 'have' interests on their own that aren't always related to a high fun advertisement. S4 does have a little bit of it to some degree. I catch my gardeners talking to their plants time to time, but I haven't seen my fishermen fish on their own unless I wasn't playing that household.
The part that irks me here, is that they'll stop doing what they were instructed to do to tend to a need that doesn't need tending to, or I'll catch a good sim trolling the forums, etc. In a way, I think the ideal solution would be to not have an object advertise itself to sims as much as a sim should have their skills/hobbies/learnings advertised to an object.
I wouldn't mind if my sims didn't use the pool or hot tub when first introduced (for example), but if I were to instruct them to use it a few times, I would like to see their interest and autonomous actions gravitate toward that object.
If that makes any sense.
I agree. I would love to see that autonomous part develop with the skill. I, too, have seen my sims go talk to plants on their own, or paint, etc, but I would love if it was ties to a skill like the woodworking or repairing. I don't think they will fish on their own. Have you put a pond on your own lot to test it?
But yes, Introducing things to them seems to me that they should want to autonomously do those things if it suits their character. Like a high skilled baker using the cupcake machine. Bartenders tend to love to go make drinks on their own. Well, anysim with a bar likes to make drinks! lol
This. ^^
I have ponds on a few played lots. No one fishes on their own that I've noticed. I suppose I could load up a save and not interact to see what happens.
I've also noticed that everyone loves the bars. The reason is because the object is doing the advertising to 'all'. This is why I'd like to see some tweaking in this area. If I had a sim that never used the bar, I don't want the bar to 'call' out to them. I want the object they use most to call out to them. Kind of like how they know what bed is theirs (for the most part).
Every now and then, a hiccup would be excusable, imo. Let's say Buljin MePanz likes to craft objects, and he eventually 'learns' to just do it on his own because he's learning that he likes it—it's okay if he makes the occasional drink on his own. But since I never set it as a preferred object to that sim (by usage), I wouldn't expect him to use it the way I would expect one of my juice-aholics or mixologists to use it.
This is the type of balance/progression I would like to see in a Sims game—a 'smart' AI.
Haha, that is so strange. Now I feel like I want to try this with my household and see if they will have any bladder failures! XD They only have two bathrooms too, but there's 3 sims.
Anyway, I just finished up a full Sim-week (Sunday through Saturday). I think that's enough to get a rudimentary idea of how unmodded autonomy works in TS4. Got some good information. Some of it surprised me and gave me a *little* more faith in understanding of my Sims' ability to care for themselves. Some of it was as I suspected, which is disappointing, because I was hoping they'd prove me wrong.
Now that I've done one test with a fabulous house and an unlimited budget, I'm going to try it again, this time using ONLY the funds available in the game. I'll have to build a very modest home, probably no more than 3 bathrooms and very few amenities. Definitely no pool. And the appliances and furnishings will be builder grade, nothing fancy. That's how I usually play. I rarely money-cheat in a regular game, and never in a Challenge unless it is explicitly allowed in the rules. I'm wondering if playing a household of 8 with a game-given budget will make a difference in autonomy. I wonder if my Sims will be as successful in surviving the week as they were in the luxurious surroundings. Will they be able to compensate?
I've kept some fairly extensive notes for the expensive Experimental House. I'll do the same for the Budget House. Then I can make a comparison.
My nerdy self is all goose-bumpy giddy just thinking about it (how sad is that?).
I think they should be okay with a budget house. If there are 8 people, I think it should be safer to have at least 4 bathrooms. You could use wall sectioning and add two toilets in one bathroom. This way, two sims can go in without getting embarrassed.
See? Now with your experimenting, you can see that the sims can actually manage themselves. :P
With regard to them taking care of themselves? Yeah. Sorta. No one died, so I suppose they did an adequate job. Not quite to my liking, though .
I think I squeezed a lot out of a 30k budget. They have about 1500 left over to fund cooking and painting costs.
The Autonomy Crew moved in and got the same jobs as they did in the Experimental House. I made sure everyone had one point in at least 5 different skills and that several of them had cooking skills. After a day or two, I'll put in an instrument and chess table to see if anyone has the initiative to picks up skills. Since virtually everything in the house is low-budget, I expect thing to break fairly quickly. That's probably the only time I'll intervene in their lives. I'll instruct one or two to do a Repair so they pick up Handiness. After that, it'll be up to them to Repair as they see fit (or live with the consequences of not repairing). Or maybe I'll just have them read a Handiness book now and see what happens.
Anyway, when I left them, it was about 7pm on Sunday. They should be just about ready to go on their own.
I don't recall this ever happening before. It may have been added with a patch since I haven't played for well over a month I'm assuming it can be added to autonomous actions?
well that was one of the disabled a long time ago, probably they added, but why a sim which don't want nothing with computer goes to programming??? you give him the programmer career??
this is aways something which annoying me how easy is to sims does things which not where related to they personality or career, just random things.
loke having a lazy sim doing atlethic things autonomous.
my big dream is one day have a sim which i can train him to wake up, go take a shower then use the toilet wash the teeths then make some food and eat then goes to work then come back if hungry eat if low in bladder use toilet if low on hygien then take a shower then does his work at home then after that if still have energy he can do something fun but which don't looks like the only things he love to do everyday.
in other words i want a ai which don't look like crazy" nonsense, which pee themselfs when skipping use toilet because hungry made then skip and forget the toilet or because the first thing they do is jump to pc or jump to make drinks, or when they have a pool is not just "jump at the pool for 5 or even less then leave or decide go to the pool then in the middle decide do another thing.
really they need tone a lot the ai in the sims because many things feel really forced and "not natural", which while was also some trouble in sims 3, is not in the same scale as sims 4, because some of the things they did to make the game "more smooth" ended making sims more 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
a good exemple was the foot slept in ground which many peoples hated in sims 3 which sims can get sometimes stuck waiting forever(if not proper done like was did with twallan) for act, then they made sims just cancel the action but that cancel can lead then to totally forget about it and even forget about others things in the queue, what in sims 3 just lead then to get stuck in a large queue of actions.
or when they are walking and can't pass over others then they made sims can just step over others which also lead to others issues in sims 4, really how maxis like to go 8 or 80 and don't actually try to fix/improve is really annoying.
In my main family the kid always sits down to do her homework the first thing she does after coming home from school. In fact, she doesn't come home instantly but rather sits on a bench right where she spawned after school ended and then she comes home. The mother goes up and makes a cup of green tea the first thing when she wakes up every morning. I have never had a bladder failure or collaps from little sleep.
I think that if you really want to see how it works you would have to make an comparison with fully trained sims. Sims that have developed habits after being directed to do a certain thing for a while.
That's an interesting point to consider. Perhaps that should be my next test. How long do you think I should train a Sim? I don't think I have the patience to train 8 Sims for any length of time, but I could perhaps do one or two. Supposedly, it takes a human 21 days to ingrain a habit. Do you think 3 sim-weeks would be enough to establish Sim habits?
Not sad! I'm excited too. And yes. Pics if you gather some would be most welcome.
I've had this happen with a teen before. Never an adult. It only happened with one teen. I can't remember what his traits were, sadly.
Edit to reiterate: I have NO mods, NO CC and nothing from the Gallery. My game is 100% vanilla., no outside influence, positive or negative.
A few notes on the Crew:
Three Sims have Neat. Five Sims have Cheerful. There are NO negative or anti-social traits (no Slob, no Mean, no Hates Kids, etc). I tried to make them cooperative.
Experimental House:
All upscale appliances. 3 floors (including basement). 6 toilets, 5 showers, pool, barbeque, chess, 12 easels, piano, 2 guitars, 2 violins, videogame thing, card table, workbench, chem lab, bar, 2 microphones, 2 large wall TVs, 2 upscale stereo systems, 2 top-of-the-line computers.
Results for Experimental House:
Showers Taken: 8
Bladder Failures: 1
Passed Out: 5
Happy: 117
Tense: 85
Uncomfortable: 713
Missed Work: 3
Promotions Earned: 6
Times house was cleaned: 1 (didn't happen until Saturday night)
Skills earned autonomously: Charisma (4), Mischief (2), Comedy (1), Video Games (1)
Items used autonomously: Radio, TV, computers, Barbeque, pool (only used once, by one Sim)
Items completely ignored: Chess, card table, gym, bookshelf, bar, microphones, instruments, workbench, chem lab, easels
Budget House:
Low-end appliances, 2 floors, no basement, 5 toilets, 2 showers, chess, 1 easel, 1 guitar, 1 small wall TV, 1 wall radio speaker, 1 budget computer.
Results for Budget House:
Showers Taken: 9
Bladder Failures: 2
Passed Out: 7
Happy: 58
Tense: 169
Uncomfortable: 906 <--- YIKES
Missed Work: 2
Promotions Earned: 3
Times house was cleaned: 2 (once on Monday afternoon, once on Sunday morning)
Skills learned autonomously: Charisma (2), Video Games (1), Fitness (2), Logic (5), Mischief (2)
Items used autonomously: Radio, TV, computer, chess table, bookshelf (but only for fluff books, not skill books)
Items completely ignored: guitar, easel
Interesting observation: I've never seen Sims fall asleep in odd places. In the Budget house, I had a Sim fall asleep at the computer and had 2 Sims fall asleep while sitting upright (not laying down) on a loveseat.
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It has been an interesting experiment and I've learned some things about how autonomy is programmed in TS4.
It's hard to keep an eye on all sims in a house of 8 though. I've done it before. So I know
@Elissar I do like the idea of a learning ai. But I don't think I'd like it to the extent you've described. I do feel they should require some direction from us. Otherwise. There'd be no point in playing.