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THE one & only 'Eco lifestyle' complaining thread

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    CelSimsCelSims Posts: 2,270 Member
    edited May 2020
    LiELF wrote: »

    It's hard to answer that because I don't yet know everything about the pack. But pretty much anything, honestly. I doubt I'd play with any of it. I don't even like the CAS or build items much, save for a few items. I definitely wouldn't have it impact every world, I'd probably shrink the neighborhood to normal game pack size (depending on how many lots it has) and get rid of the sci-fi digital stuff that doesn't seem to fit at all. The community ballots, some of the extra gardening (isn't there enough by now?), the soda, some of the clunky machinery (is that actually eco friendly??) and some of the CAS could get cut down. I don't know, it just doesn't seem to have much to begin with.

    But because we already have the Conservationist career and effects in Island Living, the Off the Grid lot trait, and the Tiny Living stuff pack, it seems like this eco angle has already been covered enough. Even if this were a game pack, it would feel like overkill to me. And it actually makes me feel a little more regretful about Island Living because these two packs were most likely being developed at the same time at some point, so why put the exact same concept into both when there could have been many better things to put into Island Living while the eco stuff be saved for a focused pack? Had they done that, this pack would have made a little more sense, but still not as an expansion. That just seems unnecessary because the content theme itself doesn't have a replayability factor. Maybe some of the objects do, but the neighborhood cleanup just feels like a one-shot deal that no one would want to play out again. Which is the same complaint that many have about StrangerVille, and that is a game pack. Why do that to an EP? I don't get it.

    I also personally don't think eco cleanup is a fun gameplay concept to begin with. I avoid it in Island Living until the game forces me to when the garbage starts affecting my Mermaids. I wish I could turn it off altogether (might have to see if there's a cheat, that would help.) It's mainly because of the way Sims' emotions are programmed; I can't stand that they constantly stand around and stomp their feet and react to smelly garbage over and over so I feel like this new world is going to be very annoying very quickly, which is a bummer, because that's kind of the only thing I really like about the pack is the trashy city. If the trash was superficially environmental and didn't actually trigger Sims into a reactional loop, It would be much better. But real gameplay is never, ever anything like the trailer, so I see this becoming a huge irritation.

    I just can't believe an entire EP budget was spent on this repetitive theme that we already had in Island Living. Especially when Realm of Magic was left wanting for more and many people felt let down that it wasn't an EP. With the amount of time it takes to get any requested content at all, (hello, personalities? Romance? Whims that make sense? Traits? A Fear emotion?! Generational play and Occults?!) The eco concept has now been done to death. It's probably going to be the single most complete featured theme in the entire game, and, not gonna lie, that's very disappointing.

    But, since there is more info to come on the pack, I won't say this is my final opinion. There could still be something in there that grabs my attention, or salvages the gameplay for me. I doubt it, but it's possible.

    And I'm just going to clarify that my opinion is about my own personal preferences. Those who like the Eco stuff are welcome to enjoy it as they will. The only thing that actually critically bothers me is that there are other packs that could have, should have gotten the budget of an EP way before this did, because this gameplay was already done.


    Thank you for the response LiELF, I always enjoy your posts.
    I can see why some players would feel off the grid and eco is done to death with various elements being spread among different packs. For those who want that though, it really isn't anywhere near complete and is barely playable. The off the grid lot trait was a base game patch pre IL I think? Probably because they wanted it to be available to everyone. The base experience is pretty bad. Cooking one meal at a time? No baths? Move on to lighting and the only wall option is one candle from Vampires. Tense moodlets from taking a shower, no sim trait to reflect choosing that lifestyle, (although we both know that wouldn't make much difference to the sims 'personality' The base patch left a lot out - renewable energy being a huge omission. I'd kill for an off the grid typewriter! Either my off the grid sims are spellcasters and conjure their own food/money, or pretty much everyone paints... zzzzz OK I may have a couple kleptos too :)

    As far as Island Living, while the conservation career is probably the most used feature for me, (It's great for spreading misery or hardships through your entire save), I too would rather they had left all the eco stuff out of it and focused on what most players seemed to want - hotels, underwater lots for the mermaids, flesh the mermaids out more, etc. Maybe that would have made this latest EP more palatable for those whose play it doesn't fit. I would say though that the clean up aspect of IL doesnt add any actual playability to off the grid really apart from the BBQ pit.

    From the trailer we are getting lots of things that will finally make OTG living not only kind of possible, but a whole theme for any like minded sims players want to live in the same world. I'm excited by a lot of things I see, from the renewable energy sources to the new ways of making a few simoleans. I love the idea of a dumpster diving crafter furnishing their house with finds and craftables alone. I know I'm asking too much because EA, but if there is a woodworking update to add even more furnishing options then thats pretty much my major needs covered.

    And thats the thing. MY major needs. This type of living may be a minority and low on the priority for many people, but it's NOT the case for us all. I couldn't care less about fame, university, living on a beach with overly friendly neighbours that I have to murder because they wont [removed by EA_Mai], (yeh that pack is irritating the heck out of me atm), I can't think of anything more horrifying irl than living in an apartment surrounded by pear shaped weirdos, etc etc. Of all the EP's we have had so far, this is literally the FIRST one where I am actually looking forward to every aspect of the pack that I have seen and can envision using all of it daily. Thats one after waiting through eight previous.
    Of course I enjoy the other ones to varying degrees, don't get me wrong.

    For every part of the EP that may not be favourite, someone else is going to love that bit. I find the over sizes machinery annoying when there has been so much feedback on the forum through the years that the overly large items aren't well received. The pollution vacuum thing just looks silly and out of place to me and while Im interested to see if the 3d printer produces anything else, it seems an unnecessary addition. The other thing with reducing to a gamepack is we get those awful 5-6 lot worlds and I'm honestly really fed up of my favourite worlds being tiny. This one better be a decent size! I would also kill for a no tech, out in the woods, no roads properly country world but from what I see so far, this EP ticks off another type I wanted.

    I agree that improvements to family life and children in particular are long overdue. Heaven knows I consider the sims to be devoid of any meaningful personality differences, I've posted a few experiments on that here on these forums. Personality improvements really need to be a base game patch and not DLC though. As far as a generations pack, desperately needed, Im so sick of the same child aspirations over and over and over...... Child occults should BE occults, please EA, if my vamp kids must eat human food then at least let them eat plasma salad so my adults stop grabbing leftover human salads from the fridge. Had that been the next EP then I would look forward to it and welcome the changes to my game, while silently hoping an OTG improvement would come soon. But it wasn't, this new one totally fits with how I play and I look forward to it.

    I'd like to thank you LiELF and others similar for your constructive and interesting posts. It's refreshing to see people's views written rationally without resorting to insults of other players whose play we may not understand or find interesting. I was getting really sick of reading, 'literally no one ever asked for this!!!!!', yesterday.
    Post edited by EA_Mai on
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    CelSimsCelSims Posts: 2,270 Member
    Octavie88 wrote: »

    I have the same question. What you just described is probably going to be what happens. You're going to try to hold a vote, a celebrity comes in, distracts everyone and the lot will spawn so many sims that they're going to have routing issues and won't be able to even vote. Also you'll probably just see sims coughing constantly when the world is polluted and walking around normally like they do in every sim town when Evergreen is cleaned up.

    Also I remember the last time a thread like this was made and people came here to complain about people complaining. Can we all agree to ignore those people if they come to this thread?

    I'm really concerned by the celebrity thing too. The idea of community voting and working together is great but we all know how gatherings really go. And if they have added the community site as another 'situational outfit' area then I'm really going to wonder how much feedback is taken on board.

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    SAEldarinSAEldarin Posts: 429 Member
    @logion

    I would venture to say that you are correct in that they may not want to take risks with the Sims 4. Especially when, by all accounts, the current model appears to be working so well.

    I wonder though, would it continue to fair so well if more people questioned the products being put out -- and I'm not talking about the theme of the pack, I'm talking about the apparent limitations via recycled content (so much easier to reuse assets than create new ones, but aren't those "new" ones supposed to be added in expansion packs?). I don't know, maybe the dumpster diving is a new animation (not a core feature though, is it)? The whole community lot thing that can be placed in any world is new, but the features attached to that are already-in-game (progression of world changes via Strangerville, cleaning up the environment via Island Living, etc). Not sure that warrants an expansion pack. Game pack? Fine.

    I have heard that because of the way the Sims 4 was designed, it has so many limitations. Who made the choice to limit the game design from the start? If those limitations keep the game from being developed down the road, why would any company choose those limitations? It's 2020 -- the technology exists! Honestly, my only hope now in providing rational feedback rests in Sims 5. Truly, if Sims 4 started off with so many "limitations," they won't make the same mistake, right? In the meantime, I'll accept Sims 4 for what it is (playing it as I can, and buying new packs -- or not).

    That said, I think the current state of the the game and how Sims 4 was originally conceived gives me some concern about Sims 5. Are they going to make it a better franchise? Or simply a different franchise? And shouldn't we, as consumers, care about that? Or do we identify more as simmers and just accept whatever they design for us?

    This is why threads like this one are critical in providing a voice to players -- players that should not be shoved aside with a simple, "you don't like it? Move on!"

    I keep thinking of Will Wright (took his Master Class) and how he put the "fun in the failure" with his primary goal to have the game simply be the vehicle for "players to tell the stories they wanted to tell." This is what made the Sims franchise was it is (was?) and why so many love the game. I can't help but feel as if we have lost that original design -- replaced by simple point-and-click repetitive interactions combined with forced, hand-held mini-games. And, just to clarify, I'm not opposed to such inclusions overall, but balance is key here. And, ultimately, if in order to utilize a new world (much needed for lot space), I am forced to point-and-click up trash to use it (or have my sims suffer pollution sickness and death by flies), where is my freedom as a player? It's not really my game, it's someone else's, isn't it?

    Competition is all about risk -- calculated risk, but risk nonetheless. Otherwise, it's whatever your consumer lets you get away with. The Sims has at least that going for it. Very little, if any, competition and a fanbase eager to buy.
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    gemjasgemjas Posts: 211 Member
    edited May 2020
    I've been seeing lot of people say that "the community voted for this," but that's not entirely true. Players expect and value different things out of an expansion vs a stuff pack, and the vote would have certainly been impacted if the poll was to choose the next expansion pack. Because this theme would have been fine as a stuff pack, especially since all I'm seeing is stuff and not a lot of game play, or even a game pack. As an expansion pack, though? What is being expanded upon? What is the reason that this had to be an expansion pack? I genuinely don't understand.

    Also, looking at the "before" world, I actually like that more. Everything in the Sims 4 is already nice and clean and eco-friendly. If I get this pack, I won't be fixing anything. I have mods that could make the residents of the world extremely sketchy. I could make this my "dangerous stuff pack," since that was also a thing we could vote on, if I recall, and it lost. :|
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    EteyraEteyra Posts: 26 Member
    > @logion said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > Making games takes time and requires people, which costs money. Some people suspect that the reason why Maxis uses the same animations and concepts instead of making entirely new things for the sims4 is because it would require more people and take longer and therefore cost more money, maybe more money than what they have agreed with EA to spend.
    >
    > This could also be because the sims4 engine could be difficult to work with and requires time, when we see reused animations it is probably because they wanted to save time.
    >
    > I completely agree with your statement, EA could easily give them more money, and possibly hire more people, however, it could be entirely possible that Maxis does not want that as well. Only the executives could tell you. But EA have a bad reputation of driving companies to the ground, maybe Maxis are worried that with more money and people, there also comes risks, that they do not want to take with the sims4.>




    I agree with this. The problem is not that EA is strapped for cash, it's that when they put money on the line, they want to see the result quickly and they don't care of the end result. I do believe Maxis is doing its best but EA have requirements and deadlines. They don't abide by the "take your time as long as the quality is good" idea. If they ask Maxis to deliver an EP in 6 months, you bet they will have to, even if they are dissatisfied with it.

    Also, the multi packs with tiny contents like stuff packs is totally a EA marketing tool. For these last few years they do it on almost all of their games. I won't be surprised if Maxis are presenting some conceptual ideas for new packs and EA were the ones who would ask to divide them in multiple different packs.

    I think our complaints are valid, but maybe they should be against EA instead of the developing team from the sims. And we SHOULD complain, otherwise I fear for the Sims 5 and its future 30 packs to have a washing machine.
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    FurSimsOfficialFurSimsOfficial Posts: 2,362 Member
    Simburian wrote: »
    Can I refer you all to a thread by a previous popular Guru who used to be a producer making packs for us, now working at Oculus, a 6 tweet thread?



    You know this dosen't make this any better right? People have a right to criticize the pack.People are not bashing on the gurus.They are criticizing the pack.

    FYI: The Guru's themselves said we should not worry about giving them any kind of feedback and that we should not hold back on it. Feedback seems to become trash talking when some can't handle it and it doesn't add up to their liking. You see the irony here?

    Anyway, it is common sense to always talk in a respectful manner and in general, I see the community does great in that! And respect goes both ways after all.

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    LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,585 Member
    CelSims wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »

    It's hard to answer that because I don't yet know everything about the pack. But pretty much anything, honestly. I doubt I'd play with any of it. I don't even like the CAS or build items much, save for a few items. I definitely wouldn't have it impact every world, I'd probably shrink the neighborhood to normal game pack size (depending on how many lots it has) and get rid of the sci-fi digital stuff that doesn't seem to fit at all. The community ballots, some of the extra gardening (isn't there enough by now?), the soda, some of the clunky machinery (is that actually eco friendly??) and some of the CAS could get cut down. I don't know, it just doesn't seem to have much to begin with.

    But because we already have the Conservationist career and effects in Island Living, the Off the Grid lot trait, and the Tiny Living stuff pack, it seems like this eco angle has already been covered enough. Even if this were a game pack, it would feel like overkill to me. And it actually makes me feel a little more regretful about Island Living because these two packs were most likely being developed at the same time at some point, so why put the exact same concept into both when there could have been many better things to put into Island Living while the eco stuff be saved for a focused pack? Had they done that, this pack would have made a little more sense, but still not as an expansion. That just seems unnecessary because the content theme itself doesn't have a replayability factor. Maybe some of the objects do, but the neighborhood cleanup just feels like a one-shot deal that no one would want to play out again. Which is the same complaint that many have about StrangerVille, and that is a game pack. Why do that to an EP? I don't get it.

    I also personally don't think eco cleanup is a fun gameplay concept to begin with. I avoid it in Island Living until the game forces me to when the garbage starts affecting my Mermaids. I wish I could turn it off altogether (might have to see if there's a cheat, that would help.) It's mainly because of the way Sims' emotions are programmed; I can't stand that they constantly stand around and stomp their feet and react to smelly garbage over and over so I feel like this new world is going to be very annoying very quickly, which is a bummer, because that's kind of the only thing I really like about the pack is the trashy city. If the trash was superficially environmental and didn't actually trigger Sims into a reactional loop, It would be much better. But real gameplay is never, ever anything like the trailer, so I see this becoming a huge irritation.

    I just can't believe an entire EP budget was spent on this repetitive theme that we already had in Island Living. Especially when Realm of Magic was left wanting for more and many people felt let down that it wasn't an EP. With the amount of time it takes to get any requested content at all, (hello, personalities? Romance? Whims that make sense? Traits? A Fear emotion?! Generational play and Occults?!) The eco concept has now been done to death. It's probably going to be the single most complete featured theme in the entire game, and, not gonna lie, that's very disappointing.

    But, since there is more info to come on the pack, I won't say this is my final opinion. There could still be something in there that grabs my attention, or salvages the gameplay for me. I doubt it, but it's possible.

    And I'm just going to clarify that my opinion is about my own personal preferences. Those who like the Eco stuff are welcome to enjoy it as they will. The only thing that actually critically bothers me is that there are other packs that could have, should have gotten the budget of an EP way before this did, because this gameplay was already done.

    Thank you for the response LiELF, I always enjoy your posts.
    I can see why some players would feel off the grid and eco is done to death with various elements being spread among different packs. For those who want that though, it really isn't anywhere near complete and is barely playable. The off the grid lot trait was a base game patch pre IL I think? Probably because they wanted it to be available to everyone. The base experience is pretty bad. Cooking one meal at a time? No baths? Move on to lighting and the only wall option is one candle from Vampires. Tense moodlets from taking a shower, no sim trait to reflect choosing that lifestyle, (although we both know that wouldn't make much difference to the sims 'personality' The base patch left a lot out - renewable energy being a huge omission. I'd kill for an off the grid typewriter! Either my off the grid sims are spellcasters and conjure their own food/money, or pretty much everyone paints... zzzzz OK I may have a couple kleptos too :)

    As far as Island Living, while the conservation career is probably the most used feature for me, (It's great for spreading misery or hardships through your entire save), I too would rather they had left all the eco stuff out of it and focused on what most players seemed to want - hotels, underwater lots for the mermaids, flesh the mermaids out more, etc. Maybe that would have made this latest EP more palatable for those whose play it doesn't fit. I would say though that the clean up aspect of IL doesnt add any actual playability to off the grid really apart from the BBQ pit.

    From the trailer we are getting lots of things that will finally make OTG living not only kind of possible, but a whole theme for any like minded sims players want to live in the same world. I'm excited by a lot of things I see, from the renewable energy sources to the new ways of making a few simoleans. I love the idea of a dumpster diving crafter furnishing their house with finds and craftables alone. I know I'm asking too much because EA, but if there is a woodworking update to add even more furnishing options then thats pretty much my major needs covered.

    And thats the thing. MY major needs. This type of living may be a minority and low on the priority for many people, but it's NOT the case for us all. I couldn't care less about fame, university, living on a beach with overly friendly neighbours that I have to murder because they wont 🌺🌺🌺🌺 off, (yeh that pack is irritating the heck out of me atm), I can't think of anything more horrifying irl than living in an apartment surrounded by pear shaped weirdos, etc etc. Of all the EP's we have had so far, this is literally the FIRST one where I am actually looking forward to every aspect of the pack that I have seen and can envision using all of it daily. Thats one after waiting through eight previous.
    Of course I enjoy the other ones to varying degrees, don't get me wrong.

    For every part of the EP that may not be favourite, someone else is going to love that bit. I find the over sizes machinery annoying when there has been so much feedback on the forum through the years that the overly large items aren't well received. The pollution vacuum thing just looks silly and out of place to me and while Im interested to see if the 3d printer produces anything else, it seems an unnecessary addition. The other thing with reducing to a gamepack is we get those awful 5-6 lot worlds and I'm honestly really fed up of my favourite worlds being tiny. This one better be a decent size! I would also kill for a no tech, out in the woods, no roads properly country world but from what I see so far, this EP ticks off another type I wanted.

    I agree that improvements to family life and children in particular are long overdue. Heaven knows I consider the sims to be devoid of any meaningful personality differences, I've posted a few experiments on that here on these forums. Personality improvements really need to be a base game patch and not DLC though. As far as a generations pack, desperately needed, Im so sick of the same child aspirations over and over and over...... Child occults should BE occults, please EA, if my vamp kids must eat human food then at least let them eat plasma salad so my adults stop grabbing leftover human salads from the fridge. Had that been the next EP then I would look forward to it and welcome the changes to my game, while silently hoping an OTG improvement would come soon. But it wasn't, this new one totally fits with how I play and I look forward to it.

    I'd like to thank you LiELF and others similar for your constructive and interesting posts. It's refreshing to see people's views written rationally without resorting to insults of other players whose play we may not understand or find interesting. I was getting really sick of reading, 'literally no one ever asked for this!!!!!', yesterday.

    @CelSims I definitely respect your points and I do agree that the Off the Grid lot trait needs work. I really like that trait and wanted it for my own more "historic" Sims so I use it myself. It would be great if it gets a good update. There are certainly a few things in the pack that are to my liking, (the smoggy, trashy city, the dumpster diving, the death by flies) so my issues aren't really with the pack content itself or its features necessarily, but more more about the principle and execution in comparison to existing packs and content, as I explained in my post above.

    I have enjoyed our exchange because I genuinely do like to see other rational opinions (even if they oppose my own) and I try to keep an open mind. I truly hope you enjoy the pack and that it enriches your gameplay. I suspect we still have a lot of information coming our way so some of my opinions are subject to change. It has happened in the past. ;)

    In the end, it's still just a video game and everyone should remember that there is a real person behind every post who deserves respect, whether on these Forums, Youtube, or Twitter. And while I don't think it's appropriate to harass the developers (or other players) and liberally spit venom in the form of insults, condescension and bullying, I still think it's important for everyone to find a way to voice their thoughts and give constructive feedback to Maxis because there's always a chance that it could influence good changes in the future.

    #Team Occult
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    JerrelloJerrello Posts: 896 Member
    I feel like this expansion is being released for a quick cash grab, vs using resources to create things that would actually take effort. It's a bunch of recycled animations and I feel like they just bite off the modding community, I already have a mod for candle making. Bottom line, from what I've seen so far it's not worth $40, so I'll wait for a sale if I get it at all.
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    LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,089 Member
    You know what I'm thinking of right now? City Living.

    City Living brought in Districts. Public lots where Sims will gather and wander around. And since then, every World has had Districts.

    And Strangerville brought in the progression of your actions affecting a whole world. Not so brilliantly but, y'know, something of a trial run. Island Living stepped it up. I feel like from now on we are ALWAYS going to see a way to make our personal mark on a world.

    You know what would be nice? If Pollution was applied to ALL worlds.
    Every time a pack comes out, I upgrade my Special Project.
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    simslover1145simslover1145 Posts: 304 Member
    Loanet wrote: »
    You know what I'm thinking of right now? City Living.

    City Living brought in Districts. Public lots where Sims will gather and wander around. And since then, every World has had Districts.

    And Strangerville brought in the progression of your actions affecting a whole world. Not so brilliantly but, y'know, something of a trial run. Island Living stepped it up. I feel like from now on we are ALWAYS going to see a way to make our personal mark on a world.

    You know what would be nice? If Pollution was applied to ALL worlds.

    That would be awesome. And then this could be labeled as an EP.

    Starry-Night-Over-The-Rhone.jpg?ts=1459229076
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    Zeldaboy180Zeldaboy180 Posts: 5,997 Member
    Simburian wrote: »
    Can I refer you all to a thread by a previous popular Guru who used to be a producer making packs for us, now working at Oculus, a 6 tweet thread?



    She had a point, there is a difference between voicing constructive criticism and attacking someone. The thing is, most people on this thread haven't attacked anyone, but yes, it does happen.

    Okay: "I don't like the eco living pack because it seems to be rehashed and recycled content, it should have been a game pack."

    Not okay: "wow an eco pack? Lazy devs this team is trash."

    There's a bit difference between the two.
    e68338c368f106ae784e73111955bd86.png
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    NationalPokedexNationalPokedex Posts: 829 Member
    edited May 2020
    I know I said I was going to hold off on my opinion, but you know what. This pack is confusing. If I'm a Simmer who has several of these packs, I'm like...I already have a lot of what this game is offering, either in CAS/BB style, animations, lifestyle concepts, the look of the town, etc. --spread across years worth of content, mind you, which is its own annoyance. Why would I be happy that after buying several packs, I can FINALLY have a fully realized eco-living concept? What kind of sense does that make? Don't worry, I'll wait.

    If I'm a new Simmer who only has Base Game, this is not a pack that would make me excited to dive more into the game and explore more packs. In its universality of our responsibility as a global community to think critically about our actions towards the environment, it's still somehow very very niche, and to be honest, it seems like something for SimCity [ahem].
    So Sims Team, you're trying to tell me that you think a NEW player of The Sims would want this pack to be their introduction into the series? You're saying this is what the game is about? And I bring up this question because EVERY new pack is an opportunity to gain a new customer. Every pack is a marketing for the ENTIRE series. And this is just....what a strange choice. Especially as an expansion pack.

    So I do question why this specific pack exists, or rather, who it exists for.
    Post edited by NationalPokedex on
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    bethyGracebethyGrace Posts: 709 Member
    edited May 2020
    SAEldarin wrote: »
    I have heard that because of the way the Sims 4 was designed, it has so many limitations. Who made the choice to limit the game design from the start? If those limitations keep the game from being developed down the road, why would any company choose those limitations? It's 2020 -- the technology exists! Honestly, my only hope now in providing rational feedback rests in Sims 5. Truly, if Sims 4 started off with so many "limitations," they won't make the same mistake, right? In the meantime, I'll accept Sims 4 for what it is (playing it as I can, and buying new packs -- or not).

    That said, I think the current state of the the game and how Sims 4 was originally conceived gives me some concern about Sims 5. Are they going to make it a better franchise? Or simply a different franchise? And shouldn't we, as consumers, care about that? Or do we identify more as simmers and just accept whatever they design for us?

    This is why threads like this one are critical in providing a voice to players -- players that should not be shoved aside with a simple, "you don't like it? Move on!"

    I keep thinking of Will Wright (took his Master Class) and how he put the "fun in the failure" with his primary goal to have the game simply be the vehicle for "players to tell the stories they wanted to tell." This is what made the Sims franchise was it is (was?) and why so many love the game. I can't help but feel as if we have lost that original design -- replaced by simple point-and-click repetitive interactions combined with forced, hand-held mini-games. And, just to clarify, I'm not opposed to such inclusions overall, but balance is key here. And, ultimately, if in order to utilize a new world (much needed for lot space), I am forced to point-and-click up trash to use it (or have my sims suffer pollution sickness and death by flies), where is my freedom as a player? It's not really my game, it's someone else's, isn't it?

    Big yes to so many things in this post.

    I think the mistake many simmers make is assuming that the team want the same thing that we do... A lot of simmers, particularly those who have been playing the game since 2000, want an improved & upgraded version of the older games. The dev team would seem to prefer making a different game. That dude's Twitter rant (the one about 'be nice to Maxis pls') kind of suggested it, when he said one of his "pet peeves" was people wanting the Sims 3 recreated, and he was like "it already exists, go play it".

    I keep thinking to myself and hoping that they won't continue to make the same mistakes in the Sims franchise, but they seem to keep doing it.

    There was also a thread on Twitter yesterday (I won't say which cos no hate) which was making a joke out of people's outrage at this pack. The thread this person started turned into a "raging through the ages of Sims 4" thread, and they started mocking the outrage people had over missing pools, ghosts, and toddlers at launch, and the constant requesting for popular packs like seasons and university.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's all kinds of frustrating for the team to deal with these constant demands. BUT. What got to me, was the lack of respect for the themes of the franchise - drowning sims in the pool with no ladder has to be one of the oldest, most well-known, most accepted Sims tropes, yet they thought it would be fine to ship the basegame without it.

    I keep seeing them make this same mistake - not honouring and making the most out of the fact that this IS a 20-year-old franchise, with SO MUCH history for them to draw upon. They can literally SEE what packs are always popular, what systems people love, what items people love... and we literally have to fight and beg to get them included in The Sims 4.

    I'm not saying the game should never have anything new, oh god no. I'm saying that I would so much love to see them take the old and improve on it with the new.

    Also, "fun in the failure"... oh Will Wright, you absolute GENIUS. I miss you.

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    KaeChan2089KaeChan2089 Posts: 4,944 Member
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    halloweenchildhalloweenchild Posts: 1,534 Member
    sam123 wrote: »
    I just need to get this off my chest and may make a thread on this too but people need to really stop saying they created this EP based on a vote we made for STUFF PACKS. They are acting like just because this theme won a STUFF PACK vote means we wanted it SO badly that they made it an Expansion. That isn't correct. If this theme was part of other ones likes Generations and Farming Eco Living would be nowhere near the number of votes we would get for the other things. UGH!

    Exactly! People are not upset it's an eco pack.What people are upset it's an expansion pack.If it was a game pack most would not complain?

    Exactly, if this was a game or stuff pack I think more people would be willing (for the most part) to let it slide. But the fact it's an expansion pack, is what has most people angry.
    Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
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    halloweenchildhalloweenchild Posts: 1,534 Member
    I did vote for Eco-Living themed SP. What was it... Like 2 or three years AGO! Since that I am 2 years older and I would say wiser, calmer. I have no need to scream veganism, etc. to the whole world anymore.

    Please, just do not introduce Greta Simberg, as somebody already "suggested". I am tired of her.
    giphy.gif

    I can imagine that Greta Simberg would be one of the most killed NPC's if she was added, unless she was given the "immortal" trait like the Baby Ariel NPC...
    Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
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    AirakaleAirakale Posts: 97 Member
    Let's be honest here... this was most likely planned to be a game pack, but was later decided to become an expansion pack because EA figured they could make double the profit by selling it at an expansion pack price instead. My guess is there was probably ONE piece of content that placed it over the line between game pack and expansion pack... and because EA is all about the $$$, they marketed it as the latter.

    It's just like how the Murphy bed was supposed to be in City Living, then Discover University, but was ultimately made into its own stuff pack because money.

    EA doesn't care what their fans actually want... they just create whatever they feel like because they know people will buy it, regardless. I can't wait for Paralives to be released! The Sims needs some competition... maybe having a legitimate competitor in the life simulation market will be a wake up call for EA... but I doubt it.

    Oh, yeah... It did ring a bell on me. Remember the speculation that there would be a GP after TL based on the profile of a former worker which listed her working on DU, TL and an unnamed GP? We all thought the said GP would come out in Mar or Apr yet nothing happened and we got the roadmap indicating a GP only comes out after an EP which then reveals as EL? Now it all make sense! The missing GP most likely was EL before it was upgraded to an EP and that explains why it feels so empty!
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    RipleyrawrRipleyrawr Posts: 273 Member
    VtizTeC.png

    My only complaint so far, this ugly denim disaster that townies and Evergreen Harbor premades are probably going to wear.


    iBVfjxN.gif
    Breadquanda is my spirit animal.
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    Octavie88Octavie88 Posts: 140 Member
    Ripleyrawr wrote: »
    VtizTeC.png

    My only complaint so far, this ugly denim disaster that townies and Evergreen Harbor premades are probably going to wear.


    Don't forget the plugs/gauges. I'm fine with plugs but I know a bunch of townies are going to spawn with them. In my game, every sim spawns with that super long hair from DU. I love that hair...but not when everyone has it.
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    AirakaleAirakale Posts: 97 Member
    aiex wrote: »
    Thank you for making this thread! I think when people voted on an "Eco-Living" type theme, which is pretty broad, they were expecting something entirely different. More farming aspects, some more animals, solar panels, a world that has a more farm-like feel.. this is just my take on it. Instead, we get a world [which i'm guessing will have like, six lots on it, knowing TS4 LOL], some new interactive items [candle making does not contribute to gameplay whatsoever], and maybe some new CAS & build items. YAWN! Where is the stuff we want? Cars [which I believe we've been asking for since TS4 originally came out] more fleshed out age groups, how about a Generations EP which would add more interactions & a whole boatload of new gameplay aspects??? I'm just so disappointed and done with this game. I can't wait for Paralives to come out, because with the way things are turning out for TS4, I'm guessing TS5 won't be any better.

    I definitely disagree. I don't get the connection between "Farming" and "Eco living" at all. In fact, farms are usually VERY bad for the environment.

    Yeah. Large scale farming is, and I honestly don't see how that would fit into the Sims anyway. I think people are thinking self sufficiency and smallholding, maybe?

    Farms are not bad for the environment.Which kinda farms you are referring too? The small or family own ones.Or the one's that are in factories? People want the local one's.

    Large scale farms. Agricultural pollution is actually considered to be one major cause of pollution nowadays. It releases a lot of toxins into the water and our atmosphere, namely chemicals and pesticides. Livestock farming is particularly bad with the methane gasses. It also engulfs the land with deforestation. It puts a lot of pressure on our planetary health. This is to name a few problems.

    Smallholding may be different though. I don't know the impacts of this. :smile:

    I think it depends on whether the main products are crops or livestock, and in the case of latter the size of the livestock.

    One of the most detrimental effect farming has on the environment is the extreme lack of biodiversity in farmed land. As we can all agree that farming is the necessary evil for the continuity of human race, so the question is: how to get the maximum products from minimum land possible? The situations in smallholding may vary greatly from one to another, yet in general I feel large-scale farming for crops should be more efficient than smaller counterparts. Livestock that can’t be mass produced like chicken, on the other hand, has much less impact on biodiversity when raised in small scale and that’s where smallholding shines.

    I feel that Maxis really missed a great opportunity here. All contents in EL could have been seamlessly integrated into a farming theme. Being a greedy-like-EA farmer? Raise a large amount of sheep & cattle and ignore their dung. Use diesel generator for power. Get rid of all life forms nearby to increase the size of your farm. Water your crops way too generously. Use chemical fertilizer and extremely powerful yet dangerous pesticide/herbicide. Throw your trash everywhere... Then the world would be smoggy and barren with natural disasters. Being a responsible eco-conscious farmer? Raise animals with better feed conversion ratio like fish/poultry/pigs and let them roam free. Use alternative energy. Practice intercropping or circular agriculture.Use drip irrigation or hydroponics to save water. Use compost for fertilizer and lady bug station for bug control. Recycle trash to make stuff you need instead of traveling thousands miles to shop. Then the environment will thrive. Also the close community and candles/soda crafting make more sense in a farm pack IMHO, and the high-tech aspect of EL can still work as to invent new energy efficient tools to replace the old-schooled ones.

    Sigh, this pack could have so much potential and appear to so much more audience...
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    bethyGracebethyGrace Posts: 709 Member
    Airakale wrote: »

    I feel that Maxis really missed a great opportunity here. All contents in EL could have been seamlessly integrated into a farming theme. Being a greedy-like-EA farmer? Raise a large amount of sheep & cattle and ignore their dung. Use diesel generator for power. Get rid of all life forms nearby to increase the size of your farm. Water your crops way too generously. Use chemical fertilizer and extremely powerful yet dangerous pesticide/herbicide. Throw your trash everywhere... Then the world would be smoggy and barren with natural disasters. Being a responsible eco-conscious farmer? Raise animals with better feed conversion ratio like fish/poultry/pigs and let them roam free. Use alternative energy. Practice intercropping or circular agriculture.Use drip irrigation or hydroponics to save water. Use compost for fertilizer and lady bug station for bug control. Recycle trash to make stuff you need instead of traveling thousands miles to shop. Then the environment will thrive. Also the close community and candles/soda crafting make more sense in a farm pack IMHO, and the high-tech aspect of EL can still work as to invent new energy efficient tools to replace the old-schooled ones.

    Sigh, this pack could have so much potential and appear to so much more audience...

    If that was the description of the back, I would have it on pre-order lol

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    EdithVEdithV Posts: 859 Member
    Ripleyrawr wrote: »
    VtizTeC.png

    My only complaint so far, this ugly denim disaster that townies and Evergreen Harbor premades are probably going to wear.


    Haha I kinda like those ugly things for some reason. You’re not wrong though 😂
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    KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    edited May 2020
    I'll never why or how ripped denim became so popular. And I'm not old... I don't think.

    Hopefully, someone can make a recolor that removes the holes.
    752d5ef1ccf6be4ae3b2e539a6376fe9ea400d9ar1-320-207_00.gif
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    logionlogion Posts: 4,785 Member
    Airakale wrote: »
    aiex wrote: »
    Thank you for making this thread! I think when people voted on an "Eco-Living" type theme, which is pretty broad, they were expecting something entirely different. More farming aspects, some more animals, solar panels, a world that has a more farm-like feel.. this is just my take on it. Instead, we get a world [which i'm guessing will have like, six lots on it, knowing TS4 LOL], some new interactive items [candle making does not contribute to gameplay whatsoever], and maybe some new CAS & build items. YAWN! Where is the stuff we want? Cars [which I believe we've been asking for since TS4 originally came out] more fleshed out age groups, how about a Generations EP which would add more interactions & a whole boatload of new gameplay aspects??? I'm just so disappointed and done with this game. I can't wait for Paralives to come out, because with the way things are turning out for TS4, I'm guessing TS5 won't be any better.

    I definitely disagree. I don't get the connection between "Farming" and "Eco living" at all. In fact, farms are usually VERY bad for the environment.

    Yeah. Large scale farming is, and I honestly don't see how that would fit into the Sims anyway. I think people are thinking self sufficiency and smallholding, maybe?

    Farms are not bad for the environment.Which kinda farms you are referring too? The small or family own ones.Or the one's that are in factories? People want the local one's.

    Large scale farms. Agricultural pollution is actually considered to be one major cause of pollution nowadays. It releases a lot of toxins into the water and our atmosphere, namely chemicals and pesticides. Livestock farming is particularly bad with the methane gasses. It also engulfs the land with deforestation. It puts a lot of pressure on our planetary health. This is to name a few problems.

    Smallholding may be different though. I don't know the impacts of this. :smile:

    I think it depends on whether the main products are crops or livestock, and in the case of latter the size of the livestock.

    One of the most detrimental effect farming has on the environment is the extreme lack of biodiversity in farmed land. As we can all agree that farming is the necessary evil for the continuity of human race, so the question is: how to get the maximum products from minimum land possible? The situations in smallholding may vary greatly from one to another, yet in general I feel large-scale farming for crops should be more efficient than smaller counterparts. Livestock that can’t be mass produced like chicken, on the other hand, has much less impact on biodiversity when raised in small scale and that’s where smallholding shines.

    I feel that Maxis really missed a great opportunity here. All contents in EL could have been seamlessly integrated into a farming theme. Being a greedy-like-EA farmer? Raise a large amount of sheep & cattle and ignore their dung. Use diesel generator for power. Get rid of all life forms nearby to increase the size of your farm. Water your crops way too generously. Use chemical fertilizer and extremely powerful yet dangerous pesticide/herbicide. Throw your trash everywhere... Then the world would be smoggy and barren with natural disasters. Being a responsible eco-conscious farmer? Raise animals with better feed conversion ratio like fish/poultry/pigs and let them roam free. Use alternative energy. Practice intercropping or circular agriculture.Use drip irrigation or hydroponics to save water. Use compost for fertilizer and lady bug station for bug control. Recycle trash to make stuff you need instead of traveling thousands miles to shop. Then the environment will thrive. Also the close community and candles/soda crafting make more sense in a farm pack IMHO, and the high-tech aspect of EL can still work as to invent new energy efficient tools to replace the old-schooled ones.

    Sigh, this pack could have so much potential and appear to so much more audience...

    I agree, I think they could have added more interesting mechanics, it's good that they are showing that recycling is important, but that is just one thing you can do to improve the environment. They could have kept it simple if they wanted to focus on farming for another pack, I just would have liked to see the things that make improving the environment difficult and the difference between doing it on a smaller scale or a larger scale.
    Things could be more expensive for example, or have very little impact on the environment depending on how you use it.
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