If save invalidation is proving to be a barrier to retrofitting existing worlds, then would it be possible to enable some options to allow the selection of which packs are loaded so that the player can make the choice?
This would allow a player to disable selected DLC if playing a long term save, but a player could create a new save if they wanted to access all the content. You developers could then have more freedom to ensure more seamless integration of new mechanics across the entire game. I do this in Crusader Kings where often a new expansion means the creation of a new save.
I can't stop thinking that following this strategy is the thin end of the wedge where play just becomes chasing the new content rather than increasing the depth of the game where all previously released content can be fully exploited by the player.
edited for typos
Awake.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity.... The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
I think the shells are objects, so I'm sure modders will find ways to "liberate" them and do crazy things. It's just not something we support in worlds other than San Myshuno.
But...why? What was the thought process when you guys decided that apartments should only be available in one area of the game? With the limited amount of space we have in TS4 apartments would have been perfect for people running out of space to put their households in other neighborhoods.
Like I said in a few replies above, you can think of apartment buildings like neighborhoods. We don't go back to shipped worlds and change the lot/neighborhood configuration, because that might negatively impact your existing lots.
??? Are you legit saying seasons is not possible?
Yeah I really get the impression that Seasons in TS4 will be tied to one world made with Seasons... I can totally see this happening. Since they need to go back to all the shipped worlds and make seasons work with them I guess? ..
Was no problem in previous series, but that's not only the case with seasons
Please do not spread false rumors. I have never said that. I cannot be replying to this thread if you're going to misquote me like that.
@SimGuruEugi please don't stop answering our questions. That person did not mean to misquote you... sometimes we simmers forget that even one word in a sentence can really change it's meaning and deviate from it's original message.
I'm sure so many people here truly value and appreciate your time on this thread. I do immensely.
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
@ModerateOsprey
I'd rather have the new content AND keep my save. Crusader Kings is a different type of game, with an end date, so your save will end at some point and you'll have to start a new one. You generally disable the DLC until you reach this end date, until you finish your current save. But The Sims have no end date and your game never reaches a finished state.
I really appreciate this thread and getting some technical answers from the source. I saw the "other thread" (about seasons) and got extremely discouraged (like giving up on the game now discouraged), not knowing if the sources there were official or not. It can get confusing. I am relieved (for now) to know that the subject was a false rumor (for now) and I would much rather hold out hope for some of my ideals than be told from an official source that it can't happen for whatever reason. Even better than that is getting official sources to give us real information - it is MUCH appreciated.
It's kind of sad that I have to point out that anything I say is only just my opinion and may be a different one from someone else.
I think the shells are objects, so I'm sure modders will find ways to "liberate" them and do crazy things. It's just not something we support in worlds other than San Myshuno.
But...why? What was the thought process when you guys decided that apartments should only be available in one area of the game? With the limited amount of space we have in TS4 apartments would have been perfect for people running out of space to put their households in other neighborhoods.
Like I said in a few replies above, you can think of apartment buildings like neighborhoods. We don't go back to shipped worlds and change the lot/neighborhood configuration, because that might negatively impact your existing lots.
??? Are you legit saying seasons is not possible?
Yeah I really get the impression that Seasons in TS4 will be tied to one world made with Seasons... I can totally see this happening. Since they need to go back to all the shipped worlds and make seasons work with them I guess? ..
Was no problem in previous series, but that's not only the case with seasons
Please do not spread false rumors. I have never said that. I cannot be replying to this thread if you're going to misquote me like that.
@SimGuruEugi please don't stop answering our questions. That person did not mean to misquote you... sometimes we simmers forget that even one word in a sentence can really change it's meaning and deviate from it's original message.
I'm sure so many people here truly value and appreciate your time on this thread. I do immensely.
Correct.
Wasn't trying to misquote you, or made it seem like it was a fact.
@ModerateOsprey
I'd rather have the new content AND keep my save. Crusader Kings is a different type of game, with an end date, so your save will end at some point and you'll have to start a new one. You generally disable the DLC until you reach this end date, until you finish your current save. But The Sims have no end date and your game never reaches a finished state.
Reaching the end of a CK2 game is a worthy goal, but yes, I take your point
FWIW, I would accept having to create a new save in any event as it is possible, though tedious, to move sims and buildings from one save to another.
Awake.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity.... The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
Would it be safe to assume, if lot traits end up being a hit, we could see future packs expand upon them, like the club rules/activities in Get Together? Or is it more likely to be a City Living exclusive thing?
We will definitely be considering adding lot traits in future packs. And you won't need to own EP03 to use them.
@simGuruEugi would it be possible to make so when invited out your sim can leave at any time instead of being stuck there for hours.. I don't accept any because I can't leave when I want.
@simGuruEugi would it be possible to make so when invited out your sim can leave at any time instead of being stuck there for hours.. I don't accept any because I can't leave when I want.
Do you mean the events ? You can click on the timer in the top left corner to end the event before it has run its course.
@simGuruEugi would it be possible to make so when invited out your sim can leave at any time instead of being stuck there for hours.. I don't accept any because I can't leave when I want.
Do you mean the events ? You can click on the timer in the top left corner to end the event before it has run its course.
I never noticed a timer guess I'll have to look for it but I never accept any invitations because I feel traped there. to eat out or parties even hang out at their house.
@SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks!
You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).
If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.
There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.
We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.
So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.
I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.
If they listen to the community, because they do not liberate the possibility from creating apartments, was what more he was wishing and what more has disappointed me, I have almost 6 lots with apartments from the announcement and I took a big disappointment with the second trailer. I feel my English belong to the community Simmer of Spain, he would be grateful to him very much if he could answer
We do listen. If we didn't listen, we wouldn't be here. Many players want many different things. If we not only listened, but actually executed on what every single player wanted, we'd have to ship thousands of versions of the game. Part of our job is gathering all the feedback and come up with a product that's feasible and satisfies the most common case.
If we concentrated all our efforts on delivering a pack that was all about building apartments, then it'd be unfair to those players that care less about building and more about storytelling, for example. If you're all about building, I think you'll really enjoy penthouses and what's going to be in the pack. And if you're not into building at all, you'll also get a lot of enjoyment out of City Living. There's something there for everyone. That's what listening is all about.
@SimGuruEugi Going on that reasoning I have to ask. Other versions of the Sims managed to support many play styles plus having many creative tools. Why were decisions made so that this time around so many creative tools were cut and several play styles ignored?
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
@simGuruEugi would it be possible to make so when invited out your sim can leave at any time instead of being stuck there for hours.. I don't accept any because I can't leave when I want.
Do you mean the events ? You can click on the timer in the top left corner to end the event before it has run its course.
I never noticed a timer guess I'll have to look for it but I never accept any invitations because I feel traped there. to eat out or parties even hang out at their house.
It's a little white circle that fills in green as the event progresses. Not super-detailed, although if you mouse over it you'll see how much time is left.
Just a quick thought, it would be kinda nice if there was a vision/mission statement each week on various parts of the new packs prior to release so we (the end users) can see the devs vision more clearly and get past some of our own expectations.
@SimGuruEugi Thanks for all of your responses! This thread (and all the input from the other gurus) has been really eye opening. I have a quick question about worlds/regions if you don't mind. I enjoy reading around the Mods/CC Discussion board to see more about what's going on behind the scenes of mods, and I saw that @SimGuruModSquad, while showing a modder how worlds/regions/lots work showed that it is possible to move the Pendula View world (the world with the Goth lot) from Willow Creek region map onto the Newcrest region map.
Now, I don't know if there were any issues with that beyond it looking wrong aesthetically but that's part of my question, is it technically possible to patch in new worlds/neighbourhoods into regions? Because, and this may just be my personal misunderstanding, but it comes across from your previous replies as if the main issue with patching worlds is affecting already placed lots that players have used (which is completely sensible), but could you add new worlds with new lots? And not a Newcrest style region/world, a smaller world/region that can sit in on Willow Creek or Oasis Springs or Newcrest or even the regions added in EPs and GPs.
And, I know this second question may be pushing it but, if you could add new worlds & lots into already-released regions, could you make it so that world/neighbourhood has certain EP-specific functionality (such as, but not limited to, apartments) that is not available in the rest of the region/world? And could this be patched in too? All hypothetically of course.
Also, while I'm here, this is coming from a long time curiosity that I've never thought to ask about, what was the reason for not having the workplaces from Get to Work on a map and accessible to travel to? Because pregnant sims and their partners can travel to the hospital without issue and wander around and interact with everything and it's just something I've never fully understood really. I just think its a nice area and could make it easier for story-telling etc but I don't know. It's not a big issue, just seems odd if you don't know the reasoning behind it!
Anyways, thanks for the opportunity to ask these questions! Looking forward to City Living.
So basically these "apartments" are just individual lots placed inside a shell/container. Aka the apartments are just modified neighborhoods which are vertical instead of horizontal and covered by a deco shell. Do I understand it correctly?
And that's why we have loading screens between apartments. Because they are not really apartments but more like individual lots squeezed in a shell box.
That's what I thought too when he referred to an apartment building as a neighborhood. If this true, it's just sad.
If people were not interested in what we were making we wouldn't continue what we are making. Our data shows us differently. (c) - @SimGuruDrake(LINK) Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. (c) - @SimGuruMax(LINK)
Can we please wait until we've had a chance to PLAY with the new EP, before we rip it to shreds? If it's trash, you won't hear a peep from me on this, then. But it may NOT be... why be so adamant (and vocal beforehand) in assuming the worst?
(Because it's EA, I do understand/share that skeptical POV... I'm not saying anybody IS wrong, just, there's a chance we doubters might be.)
I think a lot of what's in this thread should have been put in the Speculation and Rumor forum.
We won't really know what CL is, until we HAVE it. Although the pre-patch for it will definitely offer some clues.
Can't we wait and see what happens once it's available, rather than getting into another long drawn-out conversation about game limitations?
@SimGuruEugi, are you able to shed any light on the decision to confine apartments to San Myshunu and not allow the building of apartments from scratch? I think it would go far in helping players understand why these restrictions exist. Thanks!
You can think of an apartment building as a neighborhood. They are authored by our world creation team as part of the world we ship for the EP. (We actually can't patch worlds without invalidating saves).
If we had allowed the creation of apartment buildings from Build/Buy, we would not have been able to achieve the look we were going for. For instance, B/B limits construction to five floors, but you want buildings to look like they have many more than that, so you can look over the city skyline.
There are also performance implications. You might want a building to look like it has, say, hundreds of windows and small items of decor. If those were actual B/B objects, they would all count against our performance metrics.
We also allow multiple households to inhabit the same building. So we'd have to add some element that would have allowed players to define the boundaries of an apartment. If it wasn't properly authored (e.g. lacking front doors), some game functionality might not work.
So we reached what we think is a good compromise. We modeled "shells," which are apartment buildings that look great but are technically one object, and then we allowed B/B operations inside it.
I can answer more specific tech questions if you have any.
Ok @SimGuruEugi, can we delete the shells and say put different shells down and build all new apartments in this new sim world? I am currently building all my worlds as blank slates. What if I don't like a specific shell? Can I change it out for a different one?
Second, can I delete the entire "apartment" inside the building. Meaning start from scratch on the specific apartment space? All the walls? Or all the apartments given a certain type of space and you can only change let's say what is inside a 20x20 wall box. I'd be okay if we can wipe the "lots" within the buildings and start there from scratch.
Please do not spread false rumors. I have never said that. I cannot be replying to this thread if you're going to misquote me like that.
Please don't punish everyone for the misquoting by one person. Just put the wrongdoer on moderated status for a while. This is why I was suggesting to SGDrake that she makes a seperate section for player-guru interaction so that the permissions for the section can be handled seperately.
Comments
This would allow a player to disable selected DLC if playing a long term save, but a player could create a new save if they wanted to access all the content. You developers could then have more freedom to ensure more seamless integration of new mechanics across the entire game. I do this in Crusader Kings where often a new expansion means the creation of a new save.
I can't stop thinking that following this strategy is the thin end of the wedge where play just becomes chasing the new content rather than increasing the depth of the game where all previously released content can be fully exploited by the player.
edited for typos
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity....
The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
@SimGuruEugi please don't stop answering our questions. That person did not mean to misquote you... sometimes we simmers forget that even one word in a sentence can really change it's meaning and deviate from it's original message.
I'm sure so many people here truly value and appreciate your time on this thread. I do immensely.
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
I'd rather have the new content AND keep my save. Crusader Kings is a different type of game, with an end date, so your save will end at some point and you'll have to start a new one. You generally disable the DLC until you reach this end date, until you finish your current save. But The Sims have no end date and your game never reaches a finished state.
Correct.
Wasn't trying to misquote you, or made it seem like it was a fact.
It's clear now
Reaching the end of a CK2 game is a worthy goal, but yes, I take your point
FWIW, I would accept having to create a new save in any event as it is possible, though tedious, to move sims and buildings from one save to another.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity....
The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
This is great news!
Thank you @SimGuruMegs and @SimGuruEugi !
Do you mean the events ? You can click on the timer in the top left corner to end the event before it has run its course.
I never noticed a timer guess I'll have to look for it but I never accept any invitations because I feel traped there. to eat out or parties even hang out at their house.
@SimGuruEugi Going on that reasoning I have to ask. Other versions of the Sims managed to support many play styles plus having many creative tools. Why were decisions made so that this time around so many creative tools were cut and several play styles ignored?
It's a little white circle that fills in green as the event progresses. Not super-detailed, although if you mouse over it you'll see how much time is left.
https://deaderpool-mccc.com/
https://www.patreon.com/egwarhammer
https://twitter.com/eg4mccc
https://eg4mccc.tumblr.com/
Now, I don't know if there were any issues with that beyond it looking wrong aesthetically but that's part of my question, is it technically possible to patch in new worlds/neighbourhoods into regions? Because, and this may just be my personal misunderstanding, but it comes across from your previous replies as if the main issue with patching worlds is affecting already placed lots that players have used (which is completely sensible), but could you add new worlds with new lots? And not a Newcrest style region/world, a smaller world/region that can sit in on Willow Creek or Oasis Springs or Newcrest or even the regions added in EPs and GPs.
And, I know this second question may be pushing it but, if you could add new worlds & lots into already-released regions, could you make it so that world/neighbourhood has certain EP-specific functionality (such as, but not limited to, apartments) that is not available in the rest of the region/world? And could this be patched in too? All hypothetically of course.
Also, while I'm here, this is coming from a long time curiosity that I've never thought to ask about, what was the reason for not having the workplaces from Get to Work on a map and accessible to travel to? Because pregnant sims and their partners can travel to the hospital without issue and wander around and interact with everything and it's just something I've never fully understood really.
Anyways, thanks for the opportunity to ask these questions! Looking forward to City Living.
That's what I thought too when he referred to an apartment building as a neighborhood. If this true, it's just sad.
Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. (c) - @SimGuruMax (LINK)
(Because it's EA, I do understand/share that skeptical POV... I'm not saying anybody IS wrong, just, there's a chance we doubters might be.)
I think a lot of what's in this thread should have been put in the Speculation and Rumor forum.
We won't really know what CL is, until we HAVE it. Although the pre-patch for it will definitely offer some clues.
Can't we wait and see what happens once it's available, rather than getting into another long drawn-out conversation about game limitations?
https://deaderpool-mccc.com/
https://www.patreon.com/egwarhammer
https://twitter.com/eg4mccc
https://eg4mccc.tumblr.com/
Ok @SimGuruEugi, can we delete the shells and say put different shells down and build all new apartments in this new sim world? I am currently building all my worlds as blank slates. What if I don't like a specific shell? Can I change it out for a different one?
Second, can I delete the entire "apartment" inside the building. Meaning start from scratch on the specific apartment space? All the walls? Or all the apartments given a certain type of space and you can only change let's say what is inside a 20x20 wall box. I'd be okay if we can wipe the "lots" within the buildings and start there from scratch.
Second Chances | Different Rain
are windows coming to foundations in a prepatch or with CL?
Foundation windows are a part of the shells.
Now that the brownstone apartments have been confirmed as shells, I don't know whether we will be getting foundation windows at all.
Please don't punish everyone for the misquoting by one person. Just put the wrongdoer on moderated status for a while. This is why I was suggesting to SGDrake that she makes a seperate section for player-guru interaction so that the permissions for the section can be handled seperately.