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Sims 411 - Forum Feedback, August 19th


  • simmerannsimmerann Posts: 24 Member
    Thank you for this opportunity to express in depth what many of us simmers discuss passionately with each other! I really appreciate your recent communicativeness and efforts to be responsive to players. It is very appreciated!

    I am a sims 4 player (only) with over 4k hours played. I use all the packs (not kits) and play a heavily modded version of the game. I have used mods to correct for some to the flaws in the game and to add depth and richness that I feel is lacking, so I have thought a lot about this.I love and appreciate the game you all have made and only want it to improve!

    The first thing I want to say in regard to increasing challenge and depth is that ultimately (and perhaps for SIms 5) the solution is really to split the game into two versions. I will say more about what can be done short of that, but i think a lot of the problems that players complain of related to depth stem from the fact that you are gearing the game toward too wide an audience and catering to the youngest end of the gamer spectrum has resulted in a game that is experienced as shallow and dumbed down for many adult players, and has to rely on mods to be at all interesting. In the Sims 5 I would like to see you create a "Sims Lite" for the youngest players, and a more robust, mature and emotionally textured version for adults.

    An example that illustrates this is how the current Sims 4 handles illness. Now, a Sim gets a negative buff from some random illness, takes a swig of easily purchased medicine and is magically "cured". This is a version of illness geared toward an eight year old. An adult version would unexpectedly bestow a range of illnesses on sims that would carry a serious enough negative buff over a length of time to override or periodically impact other buffs, and make some activities impossible, and affect needs (ie, tire more quickly) . Sims would have to go the doctor or therapist or hospital ( if serious enough). There would be a risk of death for some illnesses (this could be toggled off). The cure would take several days and the illness could be recurring or chronic. Yes that requires finding a "sweet spot" of creating a hardship w/out being overwhelming, but this is achievable, perhaps with some option to toggle.

    The other areas that need attention to create more challenge:

    - Financial. It is to easy to make money and nothing to do with it once you have a lot.. It is too easy to make money off gardening, crafting books or paintings. These should be harder to accomplish. Rare plants should be that- rare - and truly hard to find- not sold at the gardening shop. Crafting items should take longer and sell for less especially in the early stages of skill acquisitions. Careers should be harder to start- you cannot just "get a job" but might have to apply more than once or accomplish certain tasks or achieve certain skill levels first. Once entered, a career should be harder to advance in. I use a mod that make it significantly harder to progress in all careers (by adding much more demand for achievements between levels) and it has helped game play a lot. Some work at home careers like botanist have tasks that can be accomplished in less than a sims hour routinely. This is waaaay too easy. Sims should have reversals in careers. They should have more unexpected pop ups that demote them if they choose the wrong thing or even be fired. Because hard work is not always rewarded in life- people get fired and laid off.

    Real estate is too cheap in ratio to the salaries. So it is too easy to make money and to easy to buy real estate. B and B items are too cheap. There is only any financial challenge for Sims at the very beginning of a career and it evaporates quickly. In the theme of more random events that can have negative impact- how about financial one? A random tax credit given or random un-expected bill (how about some medical bills, hmm?). University is ridiculously cheap (from a US perspective :-( ). Everything is so cheap in ratio to income! How about getting loans and using credit cards, with the possibility of going into debt? Once sims have a lot of money could you increase options for disposing of it? Could Sims donate 250K to build a new museum or library, and actually build it? Could there be an actual way to funnel some of that money back into the Sims world somehow? They can't even buy a second home or do anything substantial with a lot of money. A downturn in the economy could suddenly cut sims salaries by half for a season, or a new tax rate siphon off some of their savings... some things that create actual financial challenge on an ongoing basis or intermittent basis other than the first days of starting out.

    Emotional and Interpersonal- This is where fundamental issues related to traits, emotions and aspirations kick in. One big issue, as others have said, is a dysfunctional emotions system where buffs related to transient and superficial positive things (a good meal! A nice fire!) override more serious negative emotions (anger at cheating, sorrow over a death, other anxieties). The weight given to environmental buffs to override interpersonal/intra-psychic buffs related to significant life events creates a sim life that is shallow and unrealistic in absurd ways. I have resorted to a mod that gives more strength and more duration to negative buffs to correct partially for this flaw.

    Because the emotional system (which is transient) is so dominant, the impact of traits, likes and dislikes and sentiments on actual Sims behavior is weak and imbalanced. As for "likes and dislikes" I do not need my sims to wake up at 2 am to applaud a table in their room- I DO need Sims' likes to be more consequential and to concern more important things- like who they want to date. Some attractiveness system to impact interpersonal connections - friendship and dating- would actually matter. In keeping with creating more challenge, as was started with the sentiments systems (why do sentiments seem to fade so fast?) relationships need to be more heavily impacted by the possibility of unequal sentiments and negative social interactions need to have more lasting (negative impact). It is way too easy to romance or befriend anyone, and again, I have had to use mods to correct for this. A caveat about installing more of an attractiveness system: I hear some people advocating against the bisexual bias built into the game and wanting a choice to make sims attracted to one gender (or both) as a choice. I caution against this solution because 1) It reinforces a gender binary, which goes backward from the direction I want the SIms to go in and 2) I like the element of surprise and unpredictability about which sims my sims might find attractive- which I want MORE of in the game, not less. I am not uncomfortable with the idea that sometimes love takes us by surprise!

    There should be more negative events that randomly happen (I guess this is the thing behind people always wanting burglars?), because this is a significant part of life. I have emotional deaths disabled by a mod because that is just silly, but deaths due to fire, storms, illness, drowning, etc should happen more frequently. Maybe even more autonomous love relationship breakups when the romance bar gets low.

    -Memories. Sims have almost no memories. Ruled by transient emotions, and no memories of their significant life events, makes them seem shallow and artificial. Again, I have to have a mod to correct for this. Sims should have some kind of memory system for events like past illnesses or traumas, deaths, marriages or relationship milestones, birthdays, promotions, personal betrayals, etc. Memories of a an event could offer a buff or an interaction ("celebrate promotion" or "share memories of loved one who died").

    -Achievements and aspirations. Again, aspirations are too easy and often a walk through of a game feature. And what about negative effects if you are not progressing in an aspiration. Again the game should be balanced with a negative consequence along with positive rewards.We need more traits

    - Traits. We need more of them and for them to have more consequence for sims' actions and interactions.Things like vegetarian are not traits, esp with such a limited number of traits. Traits should impact behavior more. Recent strengthening of this has been appreciated, but more can be done. Yes , I really like it that my sim can be annoyed by a cheerful sim! Keep thinking in that direction!

    - More physical interactions/animations based on emotions. Can they cry in the arms of another sim? Can they cuddle in bed? Can they (please) storm out of the house?

    - Richer game play can also be enhanced by fixing the generic lot problem. I've really benefited from many talented simmers who imagined and built all kinds of lots that expand game play. These lots often have to be classed as generic lot type, but the generic lot types are not available as destinations for dates, or won't show up as possible venues for Events. Can you fix this?

    In sum, this all may be too late for Sims 4, depending on what what you can do with what's already built- although even tweaking helps. But from the get go, you folks will do players a real service by deciding with clarity what age group you are trying to market to, and whether a broad age range can really be served by only one version. What fits for a 13 year old is just not going to work for adults in a sustainable way. This could be a stellar games in two identities and two versions- one a kid's version and one for adults. Just think about it for Sims 5!
  • GigglesomeGigglesome Posts: 2 New Member
    Sorry forgot to add this regarding depth. If my sim sees a child that is not their own as a care dependant. Can it stop them from having the romance option when said child becomes a young adult. As a stepchild I see my stepfather a my dad and so would not flirt with him. Why would this be a thing in the sims? I am doing an adoption story where my sims goes to find her birth parents. Despite having a great relationship with her adoptive parents she can now as a Ya have romance with them. The "adopt as dependant" should mean something otherwise it's pointless.

    Thanks again.
  • JerusalemJerusalem Posts: 2 New Member
    In terms of depth and difficulty, I think something that should be considered is more game aspects that can't be accomplished in two sim lifetimes. Generational play as it is almost always the same story for each sim, but with proper nouns and adjectives shuffled. Events have little impact on sim behavior, and there isn't much to aim for in terms of grand overarching goals. Every save kind of just devolves into a dollhouse, and there isn't much difference between a 3 year game and one you started a couple days ago (other than maybe lots you've built, but you can just copy those). The family tree deletes itself if it gets too long (as well as the collectable book at random) so there's not even some big record you can look at in lieu of a more material accomplishment. In a more ideal sims game, I'd imagine that it might take multiple generations to work up to the largest house, that your sim wouldn't be able to instantly get an entry level job as a rocket scientist despite having no experience or skills, and that a sim wouldn't be able to seduce literally anyone at almost any time. Some features that I think might be worth considering would include generational perks firstly. Like if your sim had a parent who ended up as the president, they might find pursuing that line of work easier. Or if they come from a long line of bodybuilders, they might find exercising easil with each new generation (you might need to make skills harder to build in the first place to incentivize this though). Another simpler change would make more traits that function like matriarch and make it so they effect all descendants instead of just grandkids to make the accomplishments feel like it carries more weight down the line (again, making the traits harder to get might be needed to get the intended effect). I imagine it'd be almost impossible to make a game of this nature more difficult through raw skill required, which means that challenging gameplay should prioritize needing time and strategic thinking from the player. There are definitely a lot of ways to go about this, but the idea of having to play a certain way now in order to accomplish a specific goal with a sim that'll be way down the line feels like it fits the bill.
  • Metior_IceMetior_Ice Posts: 1,676 Member
    edited August 2021
    I'll be honest. I play the game with autonomy turned on.

    I just had a pretty crazy play through in the romance area of the game.

    I had townies and my sim's girlfriend actively initiating romantic interactions that lead to chaotic cheating. The NAP was not turned on, but my sim's girlfriend actively flirted with random townies.

    Here are all the different guys she interacted with.
    Random Guy Number 1 that she claims she doesn't know.


    Random Guy Number 2 had the highest relationship with Cecilia, and he was the most persistent when it came to interrupting dates. He was the one that made Jack realize that Cecilia was cheating while flirty with a sentiment for him....




    Random Guy Number 3 that was unflirty. Cecilia was flirty because of a Sentiment for Jack


    Random Guy Number 4. Again, she was flirty because of a Senitment for Jack, but her outgoing trait made her actively seek to socialize with other sims. Random Guy Number 1 even came to the door of my sims' home.


    My Cecilia Kang has all her original traits except I changed her noncommittal trait to outgoing. I theorize that a combination of the outgoing trait and flirty sentiments led her to pursue social interactions that ended up being romantic because of her moodlet.

    Their sentiments in the end, and this is where things get really frustrating. Cecilia did initiate some failed attempts to flirt while under the influence of a sentiment moodlet, but she rejected an advance from someone she had a decent relationship with. None of these townies would initiate romance with my active sim, the one with the Plumbob, but their were clear attempts at romance between sims that weren't active even after they were added to the household.

    I strongly feel like Cecilia Sentiments should have influenced who she flirted with. Even though she was flirty, she was flirty because Jack was near her. She should not have tried to flirt with random townies while under the influence of that sentiment.

    So, it isn't a problem so much as it feels unfocused and very random. Sentiments, Likes, Dislikes, Traits, and Moodlets by themselves don't do much, but I have an incredible amount of randomness happen when you get the right combination. So, the recent updates with new packs have added depth to my gameplay. It just needs a bit of refinement, maybe. I'm actually happy with a bit of randomness.

    Likes and dislikes do seem to influence behaviors.

    Zephyr likes singing, so he used the Karaoke Machine at a Beach Lot. Other townies that don't like singing would not use the karaoke machine on a Beach Lot.

    Dylan will play his guitar or violin randomly on the street because he likes playing the instrument.


    However, I feel like my merfolk should like swimming or ocean activities instead of just fitness in general.


    I know for a fact that there is a subtle jealousy or envy element to the romances. The guys Cecilia was "involved" with had a way of showing up to every lot Jack visited with Cecilia. Some of them visited while Jack was alone.


    Some guys that are completely unrelated to a couple will try to interject themselves into a date. Townies that aren't even associated with a dating couple should not interfere in a date!

    I've had romantic interactions backfire because of this behavior. I will say that I wish sims had boundaries. They get especially bad about interjecting themselves into a conversation during the Date social event. That is a problem for me. Why can't two dating sims be left in peace.

    Celebrity Intrusions...


    Retail employee intrusions...


    And as seen with Ekram Elderberry, there are normal sim intrusions. Please make it stop!

    I'd like it if there was an option to simply not pursue romantic relationships. It would be nice to have a toggle that makes sims engage in romance autonomously. The game feels like there's a heavy push for sims to be in romantic relationships. I want a single lifestyle to mean something. A sim should be free to be single. I don't want a loner trait or unflirty trait to make that happen.

    Also, I still want merfolk children to have their merforms compeleted. I used cheats to equip their merform, and they nearly have a merform. All they need are some of the ear and eye details, a tail, and a swimming animation. I want them to feel like they are a part of a merfolk family. I'm pretty much skipping the toddler and child life stages because I want my merchildren to actually have a merform that let's them sleep in the water and swim with their family.


    Toddlers also have the potential for a merform.


    I don't like how Merfolk don't use their abilities on normal sims, and I don't like that they made the siren's call non-lethal. If you provoke a mermaid or merman, they should be able to retaliate. Given that merfolk don't have visible merforms to sims that aren't merwoke. This could be a nice surprise. To have a merperson sing a siren's lullaby, summon a sea monster, or use the Siren's Call.


    And on the topic of merfolk, would it be possible to update them with a skill tree similar to spellcasters and vampires. That would be epic. The two things that I think could had the most depth to merfolk and make them more worthwhile is a skill tree and an underwater world with lots that can be edited. I would love to have a merfolk family that lives underwater! It could be a new lot type called underwater residential for merfolk and something like boat house residential for humans.

    Why didn't they include underwater lots with Island Living like they did with Island Paradise?


    My favorite underwater survival game is Subnautica and I can play it on both the PC and Consoles that support the Sims 4. I know that underwater gameplay with build interactions is possible.
  • sammyslammasimmersammyslammasimmer Posts: 5 New Member
    Hello! I have been playing the sims for 21 years, and I really do love the Sims 4. It is not perfect, but the aesthetics of the worlds & sims, CAS & build mode, and a lot of the gameplay are really awesome. That being said, like a lot of Simmers have stated so far, the game can be "too easy" for your Sims.

    1) Romance is not complex enough. I'd love for the turn-ons/turn-offs and online dating aspects of Sims 2 to return. The stakes need to be higher. I'd love more of a focus on weddings (stuff pack?) and other romantic event options like a shower or engagement party.

    2) More lot types. To make gameplay more unique and varied upon each new save game/world start, I'd love more lot options to take your Sims to to make the game more "real." Think malls, movie theaters, skate parks, tattoo parlors, salons, legit concert venues, etc. Even adding more rabbit holes would be exciting and make your Sims busier. Too much of their calendar is spent working on skills and such. There aren't enough options for living a life story.

    3) Raising babies, toddlers, teens & kids should be more challenging and require more life stages. There aren't many holidays or events that are kids-focused aside from the Festival of Light and Spooky Day/Halloween. As most of this community agrees, more "Generations" gameplay would seriously make raising children more challenging and rewarding. I LOVED the "Learning to drive," "sleepovers," and "prom nights" of the Sims 3.

    4) More realistic content. Laundry Day and Bust the Dust are 2 of the best examples of this. I love when my Sims have to do ordinary stuff that all humans are suckered with. Paying taxes, getting a period, putting on skincare, clothes shopping, are just some examples of ways the Sims could be more ordinary.

    5) Spicing up the world as a whole w/ more storylines and lore for NPCs. The MCCC mod helps us make our worlds active with changes like marriages, babies, breakups, adoptions, etc. I'd love more random deaths of NPCs and life stages like the ones listed above to enhance the realism and make relationships more in-depth with spontaneous occurrences.

    6) Sims should be able to make plans for the future that aren't just events. Things like "Get a drink with Mortimer," "Playdate at the park," and "Spa Day" to make their calendars more dynamic. I want my Sims to feel panicked by their plans coming up and to-do lists like I often do.
  • Cloud123Cloud123 Posts: 1 New Member
    1) Story progression! If I play with the same save, within a few generations the worlds are empty as everyone has died. Sims need to reproduce autonomously at the very least.

    2) Wants and Fears! To drive the storyline, should be influenced by traits and have more consequence than whims.

    3) Memories! Like the sims 2 system. Gives depth.

    4) Family tree needs to be extended to include all relatives.

    5) Children should be able to learn adult skills e.g. painting, piano. There is no real reward for working on children’s skills at the moment.

    6) More random events.

    7) More traits.

    8) Aspirations that aren’t tutorials for packs.
  • TanjshaTanjsha Posts: 1 New Member
    To add more depth and challenge, make aspirations harder (I can do like 3 in one sims normal lifespan, when it is meant to last a lifetime) - maybe have a stage for YA, A and E so it takes up their whole life. Relationships should be two way: different relationship bars (ie A for B could be 50%while B for A is 30) and interaction from NPCs such as asking on a date (in person), proposing, complaining they are waiting too long to get married. Weddings should be made bigger too with more wedding prep, same with pregnancies. So events like baby showers, bridal showers, gender reveals, checking out wedding venues, finding the perfect dress (with loads more dresses to choose from) would be great. Along the lines of events, funerals, teen house parties while parents are out, hen/stag parties, risk of getting drunk etc would all add depth and challenge. Jobs should be harder to get (requirements, interviews, lower starting wages) and then bank loans could come into play, perhaps even with a credit score that effects whether you get a loan. University should be more expensive too, I find myself never in need of a loan/scholarship. Also traits should impact the game more : good sim cannot do mean interactions/gets sick at them etc etc. Random events such as burglaries, electricity fires, more random deaths, more serious illnesses, break ups/arguments from NPCs, NPC running away during wedding, custody of children (I.e. adding shared custody/child support). I just thing adding this level of realism to the game would really impact its level of challenge. Most of all: story progression. Once my children age to teens there are barely any people to go round in terms of romance and it gets boring when you are the only one changing. Thanks fir reading!!
  • Hcla25239028Hcla25239028 Posts: 22 Member
    Base game daycare where sims can drop their kids off while at work. A actual location. Other sims could work there and you could follow your child sim there andbe able to interact with the other sims and activities around.
  • SpacesuitSimsSpacesuitSims Posts: 1 New Member
    Hello Sims team! Thank you for gathering feedback from your community and for listening to us. I have been a simmer since i was a little girl in 2000 and have played every version of the game. I really enjoy the Sims 4 visually and I am sure that by adding depth the game will be great.

    Here are some ideas I have:

    1. Memory system linked to the emotions:
    - by moving the N.A.P system to the notebook, this would free up UI for a memory system. There is one in game, but it doesnt capture the essence of memories. if there was a feature to click a buff and add to memories, simmers could store memories and create stories for their sims. We could then share our sims on the gallery and other players could see our sims life experiences. A good visual is the movie Inside Out where all Riley's memories are a colour and linked to an emotion.

    2. One Sided Relationships and Relationship Development
    - Sims having one sided relationships based on a multiplier. based on either traits, hidden traits and sentiments, sims could develop one sided relationships in either the romance or the friendship bars. Let's take the Watson family as an example: Rahmi is tired of her relationship with Thomas, so she would have a red relationship bar with him, but Thomas still loves Rahmi so his would be pink. Let's say Rashidah caught Rahmi cheating, she would have a lower relationship bar and a hurt sentiment or grudge, but Rahmi would not have this because she is unaware until Rashidah tells her, at which point their relationship bars would both lower.

    Sims should develop relationships autonomously when not played with. It seems strange when loading a new sim to play with who is a friend of your sim and this new sim has no other friends and doesnt know anyone. Sims should autonomously get into relationships, break up and have children. This is part of NPC story progression that would add depth to the world and gameplay as the world would not hinge around your sims pushing forward relationships. Other sims should interact with yours as well, not just the player pushing the game forward.

    3. Expand on Sentiments
    - Sentiments allow for unique dynamics between sims and expand on gameplay, but they need to be more powerful and need to stick longer, especially for rotational gameplay. They should also continue to develop on their own if autonomy for unplayed sims and your played sims in on. sims should develop these sentiments and relationships without needing the player to guide them all.

    4. More Pack Integration
    - features in the game should be updated for previously released gameplay and continue to be updated for new packs. Example, university degrees and career cross overs - when a new relevant career is added to the game, it should be considered for a university degree and if there is one that exists, it should give a bonus to the new career.
    - New lifestyles should be added as we get more content so that those with Snowy Escape can benefit from the new content.
    - Update Holidays and Club activities to include the gameplay from the new packs. this will create more in depth with Seasons and Get Together since sims would be able to, for example recycle (eco lifestyle), have a séance (paranormal) and do a keg stand (uni). More holidays and clubs enhance gameplay and add much needed customization to the game.
    5. Expand on Preferences
    - As with pack integration, all the activities and music channels and colours should be added to the game. Currently, reading and chess and stargazing aren't Preferences as examples
    - Sims should be able to talk to sims about their hobbies or learn about others. An example is how the vegetarians can "evangelize about the benefits of being vegetarian" but with hobbies or music or any other preference. Sims can then react and get mood buffs and sentiments from the interactions. Sims could also obsess about their preferences.
    - Food preferences should be added into the game with diets (vegan, healthy, vegetarian, lactose intolerant, meat lover, junk food, etc)
    - Fears and desires could also be added (ex: fears swimming, loves aliens, fears fire, fears vampires, etc.) this would allow even more customization of the sims and add to in depth story lines.

    6. Neutral traits
    - traits should continue to be added to the game, particularly "neutral" traits such as Grumpy, Talkative, Liar, Manipulative, Loyal, Sweet, Shy, etc. These traits add to gameplay because they add personality traits to sims that arent tied to a pack but make sims so unique.
    - Alternatively, using the Big 5 personality traits (concientiousness, agreeableness, neuroticism, openness, extraversion) on a scale (maybe with sliders like to voice sliders) would allow for simpler addition to traits while still adding deep gameplay.
    - Quirks for normal sims would also add in depth gameplay to sims in a different way than lifestyles do

    Thank you for taking the time to read this and keep up the good work!
    - SpacesuitSims
  • simmerannsimmerann Posts: 24 Member
    I just wanted to add, having seen a lot of comments about life stages, that one thing that would add depth is more nuance in life stages. I think you have gotten a lot of feedback about babies, but I think another one that is really equally lacking, and even bordering on offensively lacking, is elders. Its a life stage that is so overladen with ageism that I literally can't bear to play it. It depends heavily on such negative stereotypes! Elders are characterized as mumbling to themselves constantly, seeming lost, in constant pain, and so on. These animations are terrible stereotypes. I think people don't play with them because of they are so poorly conceived. What about elders who are active, alert, who want to travel, who mentor others, who volunteer, or have third careers? When people exhort the team to expand elders I almost don't want you to if it means continuing the ageist stereotypes. I make my sims "elders" by continuing in the adult form, with grey hair and more wrinkles, just to avoid the offensiveness of the form that elders have in the game. I know many irl elders- none of them mumbling to themselves or lost, constantly moaning with pain. Sure some elder folk who are old old and get more this way but as a whole life stage? Please redo this life stage with more reflection on the harmful stereotypes, and more respect and nuance. I know your better selves, and the community, will thank you for it!
  • S1MSLYS1S__QARDS1MSLYS1S__QARD Posts: 206 Member
    - No more unnecessary restriction they just add up time in the game and more frustration than being realistic e.g. not being able to see pets need
    - More versatility and integration especially with cross pack compatibility. special feature if you have certain packs together.
    - More integration with set object like debug shell building being able to use them as stores (with walking through door animation) and used as a rabbit hole, window-shopping be great to add too all shop debug buildings
    - up and down arrows for searching for items in addition to scrolling
    - separate household funds (their a mod fir it so I'd like to see it in the game)
    - duplicate worlds ( not everybody want every pack and the worlds are small) (if a mod can do it why can't we just have it the game)
    - Own more than one property
    - Being to use pond tool to make swimmable pond/lakes and ice skate when frozen
    - In build/buy wallpaper skirting and panelling should be separate
    - In Build/Buy being able to swatch certain part of a objects separately
    - More realistic Animation
    - Take group photos (and with objects like a sofa)
    - being able to in CAS decide more relationship between different sims e.g.: Uncle, Aunt, cousin, niece, nephew, relative, twin, triplet, adopted, donor, surrogate parent, parent, adopted sibling, siblings etc
    - being able to have nicknames and if your close to someone they can call you by their nickname on the opposite end have people call sim names or call other sim so when they phone or text it will come up with the nickname you gave them.
    more realistic events and update e.g. funerals, sleepovers, bachelorette and Bachelor party, baby shower etc. Wedding event should be updated to be able to decide bride, grooms, bridesmaids, and groomsmen outfits, a officiant to be added , bridesmaids and groomsmen to be added , flower child and rind bearer to be added as optional.
    - being able to decide when a sims dies what part on their inheritance from their individual Simoleans funds and items in their inventory do other sims which include family and friends and other sims can have a reaction to this based on the relationship they have with sims and what they got but also based on their personality e.g. a materialistic wouldn't be happy if they go little money or nothing at all.
    - transportation: public transport, buses, trains, vehicles, cars ( high end and low end), convertible pick up truck, van, motorcycle, skateboards and bike for all ages ( tricycle for toddler
    - transportation effect how fast a sim get to a destination
    - more activities for toddler, kids, teens
    - mechanic freelance career
    - real estate career
    - more traits: bossy, shy, sarcastic, chatterbox,
    - traits and traits UI menu need to be updated to add thing like allergies ( lactose intolerant, hay fever), conditions ( asthma, prosthetics, poor eyesight). traits need to reflect more of a sim personality rather than what interest they like, that needs to be in its own section lifestyle and hobbies are not traits so they should have their own section like a enthusiast section as they take up space in the trait section a sims feel like they have no personality.
    - We also need a wants and fears
    - Likes dislikes need to be updated to t add attraction to reflects what a sims finds attractive by looks and personality what is their preferred preference which will indicate how much chemistry and sim will with another sim. depending on sims traits will depend how much another sim will look pass certain attraction part like looks
    - vitiligo and heterochromia for sims
    - improved babies

    More realistic gameplay and personality make the game more immersive.

  • xoJessixoJessi Posts: 1,823 Member
    edited August 2021
    Sul Sul! ;) Here's what I think would improve the Base Game as far as depth goes:

    Wealth = Boredom: Once my sims are wealthy, I find there is just nothing left for them to do (I play legacy style and they all start out poor/modest but eventually they get wealthy). I would like to expand on their stories once this happens instead of getting bored. I wish there was more "risky" things you could do to lose the money you have. Like super harsh chance cards that are based on a percentage of your wealth. (Like if you fail, 70% of the money in the bank is gone lol).

    Also, in TS3 we had the option to buy properties (including second homes) and manage them (fire staff, gain profits each week, get benefits like free food, rename them). This was very well done and could add so much to the stories. I currently have a museum in my game that features a lot of my sims artwork. It would be very cool if she could actually own it (or at least a portion of it).


    Return of the Skill Challenges: I enjoyed the Sims3 Skill challenges too, where you listed some challenges specific to skills. This gave me goals to reach and a sense of accomplishment once I had.


    Inheritance and Death: As a simmer who has been playing the same families of sims for years, I would love to have my sims formally pass on things to their children/grandchildren. This adds depth because it's almost like a continuation of their story. Perhaps one child gets most of the riches and another gets next to nothing... perhaps they could even leave it all to charity (oh the drama).

    Thanks for reading!
  • TMWeaver2674TMWeaver2674 Posts: 2 New Member
    First, thank you for giving your player base a voice, it is truly appreciated.

    • Relationship Dynamics

    o We need more relationship options in CAS
     BF/GF
     Grandparent
     Aunt/Uncle
     Cousin
     Stepparent

    o More autonomy for NPC’s

     Initiate Relationships
     Recognize Familial Connections (Grandparent recognize the grandchild)
     Ability to progress through their own story when not being specifically played
    • Marriages, Divorces, Pregnancies, etc.

    • More Challenging Game Play

    o Consequences mean something.

     Bad decisions for career chance cards affect ability to find other careers
     Bad grades in school requires a visit to the principal or punishment from parent
     Negative emotions have longer lasting effects

    o Money and Careers

     Money is harder to obtain (thanks to painting and Plopsy money gains are easy)
     Careers progress slower
     Larger variety of careers available (many are just too similar to each other)

    o Relationships

     Relationships cannot be achieved from 0 to 100 in one day
     Couples that do not spend time with each other begin to drift apart
     Children reacting properly to events such as divorce, parent remarriage etc.

    o Children

     Babies that require more attention
    • Changing at a changing table
    • Bathed in baby bath
    • Rocked, walked etc.
     Toddlers have more personality
     Children are given more responsibility
     Teens have more activities
  • AelynPlaysAelynPlays Posts: 2 New Member
    I have a couple of ideas to add more challenge and depth to the Sims 4.

    1. Careers
    As it is, I think that careers are too easy to progress in and don't provide much challenge. I think there are a couple of ways to combat this:

    - Make career progression slower so it takes longer to max out the performance meter (this also applies to other performance meters, like for grade/high school, after school activities, university course progress, university society progress, skills etc) I think the difficulty in progression should be a per-save toggle, perhaps with an easy, medium and difficult setting for players to add the level of challenge they want.

    - Add more challenging promotion requirements. Rather than just requiring a certain skill level, perhaps add required interactions that will take time to complete. For example, in the Conservationist career, a promotion requirement might be "Write 10 grant proposals". For the Gardener career, a promotion requirement might be "Grow and harvest 10 perfect quality crops or flowers". For the Green Technician career, a promotion requirement might be "Successfully convince 20 sims to vote for N.A.P.s".

    - Make it harder to get a job. Some careers could benefit from having low skill requirements to enter the career in the first place (eg. level 2 fitness for Athlete career, level 3 logic for Doctor career).

    2. Emotions
    I think that emotions are too changeable in the sims 4. Your sim can swing from one emotion to the next and it makes it very easy to get your sim into the emotion you need them to be in. I think emotions could be overhauled to make moods more stable and harder to change or overpower with other moodlets (perhaps with the exception of erratic sims).

    I also think that death should be sadder. Sims get over death far too quickly - I think the mourning moodlet should be extended to around 6 days for close family members and spouses dying.

    3. Sims Personality
    I would love to see some tangible consequences from traits (not just moodlets) in the game. For example, I love the animation of clumsy sims dropping a plate when washing up, but I would love to see 2 or 3 simoleons be charged to pay to replace the plate they have broken. Or for traits to impact how successful sims are in careers or relationships. Currently, any sim can build any skill, do any career and build relationships with anyone they want to. I think it should be much harder for contrasting sims (eg. an active sim and a lazy sim) to build friendships or for higher levels of certain skills or careers be locked from sims with particular traits or lifestyles (eg. lazy sims can't progress beyond level 5 fitness).

    4. NPC stories
    It would be great if NPCs had more autonomous stories (divorces, affairs, changing jobs, moving house) and that they would tell your sims about their lives if they're friends. In one of my saves, my sims neighbour is going through some stuff with her husband, but the only way I knew was by chance because I temporarily added her to my family and noticed her relationship level and sentiments with her husband. I would love for friends to share information with your sims to make them feel like they have their own lives.

    5. Make life suck sometimes
    To add more challenge and realism, I would love for random bad stuff to happen to my sims: they get demoted because someone spread a rumour about them in the office and now they have to build their reputation back up (this could be less likely to happen with high charisma skill); they get a computer virus that they either have to remove themselves (requires programming skill) or replace their computer altogether and then they keep getting spam texts/calls because their details got leaked; more chance cards with genuinely bad consequences (eg. being fired, losing friends, losing money).

    I would also love to see the dangerous elements currently in the game become more dangerous. Usually, you get a warning from a moodlet before your sim dies, essentially telling you that your sim will die if you carry on. I'd love for these actions to sometimes be fatal on the first try (electrocution, elderly exhaustion etc). Fire, especially, lacks danger and I would love for fires to spread quicker and be harder to put out.
  • blueyedpandablueyedpanda Posts: 1 New Member
    Sul Sul!

    Thanks Sims Team for giving us the opportunity to voice our feelings on this issue.

    The first thing that would add more depth for me is: STORY PROGRESSION
    Although there are a lot of sims walking around the world or coming into venues, it doesn't feel real or alive.
    I want to see changes to the sims lives - they should have jobs, marriages, divorces and most importantly they should have children. I don't want to have to go into every Sim house and have them woohoo just to have children in the families and I don't want to have to download families from the gallery just to make sure there are toddlers and children the same ages as my Sim's children. Plus seeing sims that are single as young adults and they are always single all the way to elders because they don't have lives of their own is just disappointing and boring.

    The second thing that would add more depth is: MORE IN-DEPTH RELATIONSHIPS AND AUTONOMOUS INTERACTIONS:
    I want Sims to have an attraction system, one-sided relationships, types that they like and dislike - and these things matter in how they interact with other Sims. I also would like to see more autonomous interactions on the npc sims side: I don't want to have to always initiate romantic interactions, I don't want to always have to be the one that proposes - I would like to see the other Sim propose and I have the option to say yes or no. I would also like to see an option for woohoo where you have a true 50/50 chance of having a child. I don't always want to choose to have one - sometimes I'd like it to just roll the dice and see what happens.

    The third thing that would add more depth is: MORE IN-DEPTH TRAITS AND POSSIBLY TRAIT SLOTS
    so that we can make more unique Sims. Right now there are so few traits that I feel like every Sim is the same and the traits don't seem to have much to do with how the Sim acts. I want to see personality traits actually matter - the traits really make the Sim different, really makes the Sim act different, like certain things/dislike certain things, dislike or like other Sims and really make the Sims distinct and individual. I would even be okay if there were "negative" traits and we had to choose at least one negative trait to give a bit more challenge to playing the Sim.

    And lastly: CONSEQUENCES!
    There should be actual consequences for choices that your Sim makes and for the interactions your Sim has with other Sims.
    For example, if my teen sims decides to cop an attitude with their parent and they are having an argument - If I don't cue up a bunch of the "angry" interactions for them, they will just start chatting and laughing. They should be angry with each other and this should have an effect on their communications for a little while. Or if one of my Sims cheats on their SO, then there should be consequences if they are caught cheating. They just keep on like normal. I want the things my Sims do to matter in their life - good AND bad.
  • Hcla25239028Hcla25239028 Posts: 22 Member
    I think if the community suggests really good updates that are or can be done through mods already but also happen to be major updates they should still be considered. My husband plays a lot of rpg games that are constantly getting newer and better updates.. I'm talking major updates that sometimes can take hours/days to update but their done and the community appreciates them and the company. I'm not saying that the sims team doesn't but if some of these things are available through mods and the community has been asking for them for year's why haven't you done them? I know money is a major factor but if you take the time to really put more into the game not just the easy stuff you will continually have people coming back and buying more. I think having this form open is a great start but let's non-stop there or just do the bare minimum.
  • TooKelseyTooKelsey Posts: 6 New Member
    Sul Sul!
    I am so excited to hear that the Sims team want to implement more depth and challenge into the Sims 4.

    Sims in the Sims 4 can often feel very shallow. A greater element of depth would be to add more meaningful traits or more trait slots- I would love if sims could have dietary requirements that don't take up a precious trait slot! I would also love if Sims traits affected them autonomously more often. For example, it would be nice to see a Bookworm Sim reading in the park, or a Cat Lover petting stray cats. This would help the community lots feel less empty- as well as improving how Sims can be distinguished from one another.

    I would also love more family member options in CAS. The Sims has always been accepting of different types of families, it would be great to be able to be able to create a Sim living with their step parent, or Aunt/ Uncle, for example.
    It also seems unrealistic that Sims only know their parents when they age up to toddlers/children. I would like it if the family tree played a more integral role, and that Sims automatically know other close relatives. That way, Sims won't autonomously flirt with their cousins at bars! :D

    I feel like an emotion system overhaul may be needed. It often feels like there are no consequences to actions, just a short-span negative moodlet that doesn't have much affect on the Sim. Some Moodlets, such as grief, or illnesses with GTW, should last longer for more realism.

    I think sentiments were a really great addition to the game- but they just disappear after some time! It would be great (and add another layer of depth and challenge) if some sentiments (e.g. furious for cheating) only went once the Sims had reconciled or rebuilt their relationship together. I don't always want my Sims to forget, but it would be nice to have the option to forgive :) I can see it provoking some great storytelling if Sims had to work on their relationships or friendships together after a fight or misguided prank, potentially even including some interactions such as "forgive for -----" or "discuss -----".

    Likes and dislikes could also be expanded to include attributes in a potential partner. I feel like it is too easy to 'Woo' (or WooHoo!) any Sim, and preferences for certain attributes as well as 'deal breakers' could really help with storytelling and adding dimension to Sim relationships.

    It would add so much to the game if Sims had a record of important milestones. This again would distinguish different Sims, and it would be interesting to see how past experiences may affect their personalities. For example, a Sim who witnessed a drowning may have a fear of water.

    I view aspirations as a long term goal- and I feel like they should be updated as most of them are far too easy and repetitive to complete. I would also really like to see some new child aspirations added as I feel these have been forgotten about and after completing each one once, there is no point completing them again on other Sims.
    I don't think aspirations should be used as a pack tutorial and should also take longer, have more steps and greater rewards than a trait.

    I would love to see more depth and challenge, but also would still like the option for an 'easy' sandbox style mode!

    Thank you for your time :)
  • SupersonicAvalancheSupersonicAvalanche Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited August 2021
    Let us know what a higher level of challenge and depth in the Base Game would look like for you.
    What would you expect from it?

    - A whole new section in CAS dedicated entirely to create unique and interesting sim-personalities and intriguing relationships and roles for our sims to play out in each other’s lives. Imagine the option to browse between numerous smaller trait-pieces and put them together into solid Customized Traits.
    - It would also be great if we could choose more specific how a certain sim expresses their emotions in-game – They shouldn’t laugh, cry, yell, flirt, smile, get embarrassed in, more or less, the exact same way as every other sim.
    - And last but not least - it would be awesome to be able to direct sims into certain in-game scenarios – assign them to special roles to play out in each other's lives – in different ways hopefully based upon their traits. Today it will take a whole lot longer to put a sim’s outfits together in CAS compared to the amount of seconds that are required to choose their (when you think about it, much more important) in-game personality - So in my opinion this would definitely be a considerate and most welcome update. (:

    How would this change your current experience of The Sims 4?

    - It would be a game-changing experience for sure! It would for the first time be possible to make different sims play out different roles and scenarious in-game – Making the game so much more unpredictable (in more predictable ways, if that makes any sense.. x). A lot similar to how a sim-vampire works today (he/she will always stick to their role – but still behave in uncertain ways…) I don’t know about everyone else – but what I tend to enjoy the most in a sand box game is when I don’t know for sure what’s going to happened next/who’s going to show up next for whatever untold reason (and I’m not talking about fruitcakes here…) Because today in TS4 not much over time, unfortunately, is going on – and replay value is shallow at best in too many cases. But that can now all change. If just more sims (if not all of them!) could have their own more or less hidden agendas towards other sims. Agendas that would evolve over time depending on the response/reactions they’ll get from the sim in question. Some sims/NPC’s want the best for your sim, while others may have more doubtful intentions. Wouldn’t that make game play all the more dynamic, interesting and fun? If the sim you thought were your best friend turns out to be something else – for better or worse… If well implemented I think it could really boost game-experience to new heights.The option to randomize completely or pre-set how some of these scenarious could or could not affect certain Sims/NPCs would ensure a good game-experience - This feature wouldn’t be story-driven at all like StrangerVille – think of it more as roleplay/relationship-driven.

    What specific aspects of the game would you like to see more depth in?

    - Customized Traits and Relationships - It would be really cool if we could pre-set (or randomize) certain dynamics, as I mentioned above, between different Sims/NPCs of choice and see how that evolves in-game.

    Thanks for reading! (:

    Post edited by SupersonicAvalanche on
  • HappilysimsHappilysims Posts: 2 New Member
    1. [b][/b] Better babies!!
    I would hope that babies were more than just objects, I want to have some fun with them! Be able to pick them up move them around etc. I really hope we get this in the sims 4, as well as strollers.

    2. [b][/b] Socializing.
    This is very general but a big category
    I truly would like to see other sims, other than your own would initiate friendship without you always having to introduce yourself, or they can also build up your friendship or romance. I also wish that traits could effect gameplay more, even when you socialize.

    3. [b][/b] More realistic in this sense:
    depending again on traits, I feel like your sim should have certain talents for things, so they gain a specific skill faster, if they have talent for it. Even that small touch would make me a happy simmer.

    Thanks so much ☺️
  • Juicyjuicesoda44Juicyjuicesoda44 Posts: 1 New Member
    I want to see deeper personalities, romance n more autonomous social actions that affect your sim. For the personality aspect, I want sims that actions are distinguishable from other sims who don’t have same traits/ personality. I want to be able to tell thier personality by seeing how they interact with the world. Regarding the Romance, More actions and options.

    I want more autonomy with the unplaced sims. I want actions to really mean something . I want to look around and see different stories happening amongst the townies.
  • HappilysimsHappilysims Posts: 2 New Member
    1. Better babies!!
    I would hope that babies were more than just objects, I want to have some fun with them! Be able to pick them up move them around etc. I really hope we get this in the sims 4, as well as strollers.

    2. Socializing.
    This is very general but a big category
    I truly would like to see other sims, other than your own would initiate friendship without you always having to introduce yourself, or they can also build up your friendship or romance. I also wish that traits could effect gameplay more, even when you socialize.

    3. More realistic in this sense:
    depending again on traits, I feel like your sim should have certain talents for things, so they gain a specific skill faster, if they have talent for it. Even that small touch would make me a happy simmer.

    4. It would also be great to see burglars again. I missed those guys. Hahaha.

    Thanks so much ☺️
  • ViampViamp Posts: 1 New Member
    Eco Lifestyle is my most favourite DLC so far. The major annoyance is the lack of options for eco doors and windows... you only have 2 eco options to choose from.. and the paint, wallpaper and tiles are lacking as well.
    I would say this applies to other DLC's that I own as well.
  • instantmagicinstantmagic Posts: 36 Member
    1. Better family ties cousins, uncles aunts...etc. These relatives would come up and hug you on the streets or in bars. Let's the player know that this sim is their relative.
    2. A big mystery tying in all the worlds would be fun. Instead of giving loot though, your sim family gets a title. Similar to a Sims Club name/title Only the Sims Family members get this title it is not passed down.
    3. Sims 4 needs way less autonomous actions. Example: Sims in household and their guests swarm the PC all the time. The only game autonomy we should have is hunger, bathroom needs, sleeping, or social. Not anything that would lead to death of Sim. There should not be things like toddler making a mess all the time. That should be user directed.
    4. Toddlers. Make them lovable too like auto kissing their parents and siblings and hugs too. The hates children trait bugs me so much. There should be a Loves Children like there is a Loves Animal Trait. Most of the Pets stuff upsets me because, besides going for a walk and Animal treats Things in the pie menu that you can do with pets should show up on Toddlers too. Example: On the couches you can nap with pet or something like that, you should be able to nap with your Toddler too.
    5. EA Townies-Give players the options to make all the townies they need and assign jobs for them. NO random townies at all. EA sets the requirement based on essential townies. i.e. EA directs you. i.e. You need to have made 24 townies for this game. Random townies will be made if you don't have premade Sims of your own choosing. Let players make the townies is something most of us have already in the saved section. Being able to set my BFF Sim as the mail-person would be very cool.
    6. Using the calendar system for festivals rather than annoying pop ups. Festivals will now be on the calendar! Players can go to this event and press not attending or attending. One pop up will appear to remind you to open calendar and either pick attending or not attending for the whole sim month or even better yearly.
    7. EA did this with Sulani but it is limited to fires and babies Helper sims should exist in the world. i.e. Neighbor Sims will automatically come over and help you if your overwhelmed with chores. Good deed doers. Ex: A helper sim might come over and fix a leak for you. Or watch your infant when you have to work. Helper designation could be assigned as mentioned above. If there has to be an Evil sim then why not Good sims too?
    8. World Shutoff Feature would be great immersive play, User can direct un-played worlds to be closed down i.e. Vampire world if they own the pack then player would still have access to BB items. Player would not be able to visit closed worlds and neither would NPC's. Player would be able to open world again if chosen. This theoretically would help loading times because shut down worlds would not have to generate they are closed.
    9. Helper Sims Doctor, Social worker etc. are UNDERUSED Social worker sims could help children and teens sufferings from teens mood swings. Doctor Sims could treat illness and hay fever by sending meds to your mailbox or even stop by your house.
    10. Anyway that is a few ways to improve gameplay without having to cheat. Cheers! I want Sims 4 to be better I love this game.
  • jasilicousjasilicous Posts: 1 New Member
    I have been playing since The sims Hot Date released in 2001. That is where my love for The Sims started. The Sims 4 has its ups and downs, but has soooooo much room for improvement and endless possibilities. Overall I enjoy gameplay. What I would expect for higher level of challenge and depth in the base game are a few things:

    Story Telling - Sims 2 gave us the opportunity to Story Tell and a memory section. Though the Sims 4 has somewhat of a story telling and memory option it is slightly limited. For example, If my sims got married and I want them to reminisce, the only option I have to reminisce is a screen capture for my Sims getting married. Sims 2 also had the feature of an event happening the screen would change into a short movie to capture the moment. That was really cool. To improve that I would love to see the memory section come back and combine it with the current sentiments system. This would give sentiments a little more depth. Sentiments disappear over time.

    The world is a big place explore it - open world in your own neighborhood. The neighborhood surrounding yours sims home is already big. It was fun to see neighbors coming to and from work in Sims 3. The Sims 4 worlds are big in general, so it would be so much lag making the entire game open world. For example, Willow Creek has Crawdad Quarter neighborhood. There are 4 lots right next to each other. If that was a open world my sims could visit each of those lots without a loading screen.

    Relationships - New traits to improve relationships or relationship "options".

    New Traits - Loyal - Sim Has eyes only for the sim they are in a relationship. Can't tell you how many times my sims haven't really cared that their partner was in their face and accepted a compliment :D Drama unfolds.

    Relationship options - Serial romantic is always a fun and dangerous path to take. It would be nice to have an "option" about relationships. open up the romance category > ask to be > commited(monogamus), open, polyamory, situationship, etc. You get my drift. Combine that with personality traits.(Insert heavenly singing)
  • PepperinWonderlandPepperinWonderland Posts: 1 New Member
    Hi there, this is my first time submitting a comment to a forum like this. Thank you for making a space for us to talk about the game.

    I know this forum is mainly for ways to make the game more challenging, but I was hoping I could discuss something I've been thinking about for a while that I hoped you could maybe look into.

    One of the traits sims can have is the 'erratic' trait. This trait has the description "These Sims can Talk to themselves and have unpredictable Emotions." I know you have in the past updated the name of this trait from 'Insane', which I am grateful for. But I was hoping you could maybe have a look at updating this trait's icon.

    I know when you created this image you wouldn't have meant any harm, but having an image of a straight jacket to represent a trait that is seen by some people to represent mental illness can be upsetting. I've struggled with my mental health, and in the past have spent time on a psychiatric ward. Whilst there, nurses would often restrain patients who were in distress. This was not a nice thing to see.

    Playing the sims is an escape for me, like many others. But seeing that image can trigger those memories.

    I'm not asking for this trait to be removed. Some people do have emotions that can be all over the place - I should know, I'm one of them. But I was hoping you could look at changing the icon. Maybe to something that has more to do with the random emotions, like dice with happy, sad, angry etc. faces on each side, or a spinning wheel with the different emotions on it.

    I don't know how anything to do with how computer game development works, but I feel this is something that is quite simple to change that will make a world of difference to people like me.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this. It means a lot to have the chance to discuss this important issue with you. xx
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