I feel like I trolled a bit on this new suggestion, considering how poorly reboots of established products sell in general.
But uh, yeah.
Suggestions like that which won't turn as much a profit as Disney's Marvel Celestials are likely what will occur if inclusion is indeed what EA is going for.
Which leads to politics in the threads, as well as some users being offended over everything. (Recent behavior on Gaia Online, unfortunately.)
I feel bad for the mods who have to clean up after all this mess, and can't say I blame the mods who don't want to interfere.
You can search for my builds with EA Account ID: MASTERDARKWINGZ
No longer taking build requests/questions, sorry.
I understand your frustration but I think this is the one time when EA really isn't at fault. This conflict has been going on for a long time and it's not just with the Sims 4. There is a very pro-active Korean community dedicated to abolishing every piece of that particular religion. It's just a never-ending fight where both sides are kind of right but at the same time also kind of wrong.
EA didn't realize what they got themselves into and there is really they could do that would keep the shrines in the game. The Korean fanbase for the Sims is very large and then even people who have no idea about the topic like Pixelade jumped on the bandwagon in the name of social justice and started talking trash about how EA doesn't do research or is insensitive.
"Even people who have no idea about the topic like Pixelade jumped on the bandwagon",
Always be your unapologetically and authentic self
I just disliked the removal of the shrine because it seemed authentic to the whole Japanese culture experience in the game and if it existed in real life, I thought it should have stayed. However, EA felt differently and removed it because of complaints from those offended. Therefore, I do think you are on to something with regards to perhaps how EA can patch it and/or some other religious items into the game like they did with the candles (including Dawali ones) you mentioned. Because tbh, I really wanted to place a Buddhist statue in my Sims home like in real life and was disappointed the game only offers those pig statues we got with some other Asian inspired decor a few years ago, lol.
Always be your unapologetically and authentic self
Again so many people raging against this are talking from the privilege's point of view.
"People should get over it, it was many years ago" is easy to say when you are on the side that either only watched or actively were the aggressors.
I am not specifically talking about Korea / Japan here but it can be applied anywhere. "The Native Nations should just be quiet about Thanksgiving, I don't get why they are still triggered by the celebration of it". "Why are people criticizing Columbus day?", "Jewish people should stop being so sensitive!", "Women should learn to take a joke!", "Gay People are always so sensitive" and so on.
I think that both sides usually have a point. People SHOULD be more sensitive to the plights of others, and people SHOULD learn to have thicker skin about certain things. But the most important thing is to go in and assume the best intentions of people, and listen to both sides. The Japanese have a right to be upset over the censorship of their culture, and it's a shame that they were ignored. The skin tones issue was ignored until it created bad press.
Obviously I have a lot more to say, but I don't want to get TOO political on a millennial simulator forum. You can PM me if you wanna talk politics and stuff or whatever. But yeah, I just wanted to say that there's a serious issue where EA selectively listens when it comes to serious issues.
The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
A mod has already been created that puts the interaction back into the game. The coding was left in, but just disabled and the mod re-enables it. As for the skin tone update, it is touted to be more for those with darker skin tones. As a very white woman, my skintone is not currently represented as well. All the tones are too orange. My IRL skintone is very pale white with a blue/purple undertone. So the update might actually help achieve that too.
I like the idea that the team, instead of removing the bowing to the shrine and textures/patterns for CAS and furniture from the game files outright, they just hid/disabled it. So, that modders can enable it back. This wouldn't really be an issue for PC users, who uses mods like me. So, console players who wants the removed textures and bowing to the shrine in their game back, are out of luck.
I mean the team already made the animation for the bowing, and created the textures/patterns for both the furniture and clothing. It wouldn't really be appropriate, when the textures and animations were finalized from the time and research they had done, before 3 weeks after the release of the Expansion Pack. So, they made a compromised by making new textures/patterns and replacing the animation. While keeping the old ones hidden.
Here's my sim wearing the old texture back (the fan one with the highlights), and bowing to the shrine to pay respect to the spirits. Thanks to a mod that added them back as new swatches, rather than overriding it.
And, these too. I don't really know why the team had to remove the Yagasuri (arrow feather) patterns for the kimonos, to an all straight version of it. But, I got them back too.
To PC simmers who wants them back, here are the links to enable the textures and animations back. FOR PC ONLY! sorry console folks.
I think they should make it possible to enable/disable aspects of the game. That way they can add these things, and if it offends someone so much, they can just disable it. In theory, in this case, they'd still have access to the same amount of content, and be able to customize their game to their liking without excluding anyone or seeming to throw out people's culture.
Also, genuine question. So they removed the shrine because it offends people. But what about those who are offended by the removal of the shrine? Screw their feelings?
"WE AIM TO BE INCLUSIVE" This statement is very straight forward, however, the interpretation varies from one & another. The irony is, even though one is aiming to be inclusive, the audiences (say the Simmers) denying another person's uniqueness. The example is very clear & everywhere. You can see it based on the loud voice, acknowledgement within the community or even on how we want to play the game.
It's not only the franchise failed to be inclusive. It's the community themselves too.
Is the shrine religious? If so, I don't think it should have ever been in the game. Religion being in the game could lead to more bad than good. If it it isn't religious, bowing should stay in the game but be optional.
I think they should make it possible to enable/disable aspects of the game. That way they can add these things, and if it offends someone so much, they can just disable it. In theory, in this case, they'd still have access to the same amount of content, and be able to customize their game to their liking without excluding anyone or seeming to throw out people's culture.
The simplistic solution would've been for EA to have merely removed "offending" content from the country of origin that made the request- disincluding the US, due to the freedom of art being the greatest freedom available in the country.
Pretty certain we've discussed this, but EA practically admitted to it being offensive through the removal without a proper cultural board to confirm some random online group's cancel culture claims.
As for the mods, I wouldn't recommend using them.
If EA truly aims for inclusion, then it's only a matter of time that they start going after "offensive" community content.
A mod has already been created that puts the interaction back into the game. The coding was left in, but just disabled and the mod re-enables it. As for the skin tone update, it is touted to be more for those with darker skin tones. As a very white woman, my skintone is not currently represented as well. All the tones are too orange. My IRL skintone is very pale white with a blue/purple undertone. So the update might actually help achieve that too.
I like the idea that the team, instead of removing the bowing to the shrine and textures/patterns for CAS and furniture from the game files outright, they just hid/disabled it. So, that modders can enable it back. This wouldn't really be an issue for PC users, who uses mods like me. So, console players who wants the removed textures and bowing to the shrine in their game back, are out of luck.
I mean the team already made the animation for the bowing, and created the textures/patterns for both the furniture and clothing. It wouldn't really be appropriate, when the textures and animations were finalized from the time and research they had done, before 3 weeks after the release of the Expansion Pack. So, they made a compromised by making new textures/patterns and replacing the animation. While keeping the old ones hidden.
Here's my sim wearing the old texture back (the fan one with the highlights), and bowing to the shrine to pay respect to the spirits. Thanks to a mod that added them back as new swatches, rather than overriding it.
And, these too. I don't really know why the team had to remove the Yagasuri (arrow feather) patterns for the kimonos, to an all straight version of it. But, I got them back too.
To PC simmers who wants them back, here are the links to enable the textures and animations back. FOR PC ONLY! sorry console folks.
"WE AIM TO BE INCLUSIVE" This statement is very straight forward, however, the interpretation varies from one & another. The irony is, even though one is aiming to be inclusive, the audiences (say the Simmers) denying another person's uniqueness. The example is very clear & everywhere. You can see it based on the loud voice, acknowledgement within the community or even on how we want to play the game.
It's not only the franchise failed to be inclusive. It's the community themselves too.
You got that right. The community thinks they are inclusive... based on their own myopic standards.
I think they should make it possible to enable/disable aspects of the game. That way they can add these things, and if it offends someone so much, they can just disable it. In theory, in this case, they'd still have access to the same amount of content, and be able to customize their game to their liking without excluding anyone or seeming to throw out people's culture.
Also, genuine question. So they removed the shrine because it offends people. But what about those who are offended by the removal of the shrine? Screw their feelings?
They didn't remove the shrine >_>, it's still there. The animation for the bowing was replaced with an inspired/thinking animation.
Is the shrine religious? If so, I don't think it should have ever been in the game. Religion being in the game could lead to more bad than good. If it it isn't religious, bowing should stay in the game but be optional.
It wasn't a full religious system, like in Medieval with Jacobson/Peterson , but more like hints towards it so you can role play if you choose, just like other religious content already in the game ( Menorah, Diwali, Day of the Dead, Christmas items etc). Religion can be controversial, but it doesnt have to be when people respect eachother. They also have included many other things considered controversial by some, but EA is selective about which lifestyles and cultures they want to promote (not fully inclusive).
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
inclusive
/ɪnˈkluːsɪv/
1.
including all the services or items normally expected or required.
"menus stating fully inclusive prices"
2.
not excluding any of the parties or groups involved in something.
"only an inclusive peace process will end the conflict"
So based on this definition shouldn't Japanese religion (or some refrence to it with a fake name since this is the sims) be included in a Japanese pack? How does one want to be inclusive by choosing which side of the conflict to support and which to censor.
If The Sims 4 is really going for that realistic reflections of reality aka "everyone is represented" I have to say two things. First, it's a fire sure way to create conflict and two if you want to reflect reality you can't censor things by picking a side of a conflict between to groups to support. You have to stay neutral and censoring the shrines just isn't a neutral position.
"WE AIM TO BE INCLUSIVE" This statement is very straight forward, however, the interpretation varies from one & another. The irony is, even though one is aiming to be inclusive, the audiences (say the Simmers) denying another person's uniqueness. The example is very clear & everywhere. You can see it based on the loud voice, acknowledgement within the community or even on how we want to play the game.
It's not only the franchise failed to be inclusive. It's the community themselves too.
I’ve been saying that for years. The Sims 4 community is *not* inclusive.
inclusive
/ɪnˈkluːsɪv/
1.
including all the services or items normally expected or required.
"menus stating fully inclusive prices"
2.
not excluding any of the parties or groups involved in something.
"only an inclusive peace process will end the conflict"
So based on this definition shouldn't Japanese religion (or some refrence to it with a fake name since this is the sims) be included in a Japanese pack? How does one want to be inclusive by choosing which side of the conflict to support and which to censor.
If The Sims 4 is really going for that realistic reflections of reality aka "everyone is represented" I have to say two things. First, it's a fire sure way to create conflict and two if you want to reflect reality you can't censor things by picking a side of a conflict between to groups to support. You have to stay neutral and censoring the shrines just isn't a neutral position.
Going to add onto that with a better executive choice for determining inclusion than a staff member:
noun: semiotics
the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation.
How and why is commercial semiotics applied to brands and marketing?
Semiotics is the most appropriate tool for understanding questions surrounding brand symbolism and meaning and the multiple and layered messages that underpin this meaning.
Brands are big business – intangible assets are an increasingly important proportion of a company’s balance sheet and powerful brands are a large part of this. Brands are viewed from the semiotic view as consumable signs that are invested with positive meanings through systems of differences. At a time when brands are becoming increasingly ubiquitous as a way of packaging goods, services, and events, it has become more important than ever to manage their meaning through marketing communications. The continuing onset of globalization and increasingly assertive brands in developing markets has given a further fillip to this trend.
The fragmentation of media and the migration of brands online, as well as increasing mistrust of corporations have meant that the task of conveying the right meanings has become even more challenging. Applied semiotics in marketing can be conceived of primarily as a decision-making tool.
You can search for my builds with EA Account ID: MASTERDARKWINGZ
No longer taking build requests/questions, sorry.
A mod has already been created that puts the interaction back into the game. The coding was left in, but just disabled and the mod re-enables it. As for the skin tone update, it is touted to be more for those with darker skin tones. As a very white woman, my skintone is not currently represented as well. All the tones are too orange. My IRL skintone is very pale white with a blue/purple undertone. So the update might actually help achieve that too.
I like the idea that the team, instead of removing the bowing to the shrine and textures/patterns for CAS and furniture from the game files outright, they just hid/disabled it. So, that modders can enable it back. This wouldn't really be an issue for PC users, who uses mods like me. So, console players who wants the removed textures and bowing to the shrine in their game back, are out of luck.
I mean the team already made the animation for the bowing, and created the textures/patterns for both the furniture and clothing. It wouldn't really be appropriate, when the textures and animations were finalized from the time and research they had done, before 3 weeks after the release of the Expansion Pack. So, they made a compromised by making new textures/patterns and replacing the animation. While keeping the old ones hidden.
Here's my sim wearing the old texture back (the fan one with the highlights), and bowing to the shrine to pay respect to the spirits. Thanks to a mod that added them back as new swatches, rather than overriding it.
And, these too. I don't really know why the team had to remove the Yagasuri (arrow feather) patterns for the kimonos, to an all straight version of it. But, I got them back too.
To PC simmers who wants them back, here are the links to enable the textures and animations back. FOR PC ONLY! sorry console folks.
Is the shrine religious? If so, I don't think it should have ever been in the game. Religion being in the game could lead to more bad than good. If it it isn't religious, bowing should stay in the game but be optional.
It wasn't a full religious system, like in Medieval with Jacobson/Peterson , but more like hints towards it so you can role play if you choose, just like other religious content already in the game ( Menorah, Diwali, Day of the Dead, Christmas items etc). Religion can be controversial, but it doesnt have to be when people respect eachother. They also have included many other things considered controversial by some, but EA is selective about which lifestyles and cultures they want to promote (not fully inclusive).
If I remember correctly, South Korean simmers were offended because of the history behind it while Japanese simmers' were proud of the representation of their culture. This situation gets sticky when one group of people are offended while the other is a part of the culture. Not implementing religion at all could of avoided this. I'm not sure if I explained that in a good way, does that make sense?
Also, I'm aware religion wouldn't be controversial if people respected other peoples' beliefs, but if people respected other people's beliefs, religion wouldn't be a controversial topic. In this case, it's not really about people not respecting someone's culture (I haven't seen anyone disrespecting another person's religion/beliefs), but others being offended by a shrine that is a big part of another culture.
Is the shrine religious? If so, I don't think it should have ever been in the game. Religion being in the game could lead to more bad than good. If it it isn't religious, bowing should stay in the game but be optional.
It wasn't a full religious system, like in Medieval with Jacobson/Peterson , but more like hints towards it so you can role play if you choose, just like other religious content already in the game ( Menorah, Diwali, Day of the Dead, Christmas items etc). Religion can be controversial, but it doesnt have to be when people respect eachother. They also have included many other things considered controversial by some, but EA is selective about which lifestyles and cultures they want to promote (not fully inclusive).
If I remember correctly, South Korean simmers were offended because of the history behind it while Japanese simmers' were proud of the representation of their culture. This situation gets sticky when one group of people are offended while the other is a part of the culture. Not implementing religion at all could of avoided this. I'm not sure if I explained that in a good way, does that make sense?
Also, I'm aware religion wouldn't be controversial if people respected other peoples' beliefs, but if people respected other people's beliefs, religion wouldn't be a controversial topic. In this case, it's not really about people not respecting someone's culture (I haven't seen anyone disrespecting another person's religion/beliefs), but others being offended by a shrine that is a big part of another culture.
Do you mean if only religious iconography was removed the game would be free of some controversy? Even political or secular things added also came with controversy. These are a few examples of religious,political,cultural,secular controversy from the sims series :
It wasn't just the Shrine they were offended by, but also the "Rising Sun" which was a secular, nationalistic/political icon.That still caused some to be offended by another's culture/history. But the sims team does not shy away from politics and is even political in-game and online with its staff. You could say there is bad history amongst other religions featured in Sims games and more secular things, like in TS3:WA there are egyptian builds in irl they were built by israelite slaves. TSM had the "Christian" religions who have persecuted others (Crusades), some have said TS4:JA was colonalist since you explore a latin-inspired land to plunder its valuables, some were offended by the "change sim" options and being able to turn on/off fem/mas options in CAS, witches/spellcasters etc are included (pagan religious symbols and practices there), some consider a hijab a symbol of religious oppression, yet others see it as only cultural or secular, but they still were implemented in game. EA is selective about what lifestyles, politics, cultures etc it promotes, but say they're inclusive or pretend to be indifferent at other times but they arent.
Im for including all kinds of backgrounds and let us decide what we choose to use. Some would like it completelty religous and politics-free, but EA is deciding for us- but not consistently. They play both sides. The inconsistency leads to hypocrisy and irritation.
There are some aspects of the game right now I can consider offensive because it is against my moral/spiritual beliefs, but I just choose not to use those options or purchase that dlc and my game can be played my way.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
Is the shrine religious? If so, I don't think it should have ever been in the game. Religion being in the game could lead to more bad than good. If it it isn't religious, bowing should stay in the game but be optional.
It wasn't a full religious system, like in Medieval with Jacobson/Peterson , but more like hints towards it so you can role play if you choose, just like other religious content already in the game ( Menorah, Diwali, Day of the Dead, Christmas items etc). Religion can be controversial, but it doesnt have to be when people respect eachother. They also have included many other things considered controversial by some, but EA is selective about which lifestyles and cultures they want to promote (not fully inclusive).
If I remember correctly, South Korean simmers were offended because of the history behind it while Japanese simmers' were proud of the representation of their culture. This situation gets sticky when one group of people are offended while the other is a part of the culture. Not implementing religion at all could of avoided this. I'm not sure if I explained that in a good way, does that make sense?
Also, I'm aware religion wouldn't be controversial if people respected other peoples' beliefs, but if people respected other people's beliefs, religion wouldn't be a controversial topic. In this case, it's not really about people not respecting someone's culture (I haven't seen anyone disrespecting another person's religion/beliefs), but others being offended by a shrine that is a big part of another culture.
Do you mean if only religious iconography was removed the game would be free of some controversy? Even political or secular things added also came with controversy. These are a few examples of religious,political,cultural,secular controversy from the sims series :
It wasn't just the Shrine they were offended by, but also the "Rising Sun" which was a secular, nationalistic/political icon.That still caused some to be offended by another's culture/history. But the sims team does not shy away from politics and is even political in-game and online with its staff. You could say there is bad history amongst other religions featured in Sims games and more secular things, like in TS3:WA there are egyptian builds in irl they were built by israelite slaves. TSM had the "Christian" religions who have persecuted others (Crusades), some have said TS4:JA was colonalist since you explore a latin-inspired land to plunder its valuables, some were offended by the "change sim" options and being able to turn on/off fem/mas options in CAS, witches/spellcasters etc are included (pagan religious symbols and practices there), some consider a hijab a symbol of religious oppression, yet others see it as only cultural or secular, but they still were implemented in game. EA is selective about what lifestyles, politics, cultures etc it promotes, but say they're inclusive or pretend to be indifferent at other times but they arent.
Im for including all kinds of backgrounds and let us decide what we choose to use. Some would like it completelty religous and politics-free, but EA is deciding for us- but not consistently. They play both sides. The inconsistency leads to hypocrisy and irritation.
There are some aspects of the game right now I can consider offensive because it is against my moral/spiritual beliefs, but I just choose not to use those options or purchase that dlc and my game can be played my way.
Replying to your first question, not just the religious aspects, but, yes to the political things, too. I, personally, don't think either should be in the game. I didn't mention the Rising Sun because the shrine got more attention in the videos and articles I watched/read on the topic. I didn't mention any other religions being in the game because this thread is mainly about the recent controversy surrounding the new pack, nor do I know of many being in the game since I don't play it that often. I don't feel as though I know enough about the other religions you mentioned, which is why I didn't speak on those. Even as someone who celebrates Christmas, I don't think it should explicitly be in the game, but I think it would be nice to have the resources to make it, just like any other religious event.
The thing about including everyone instead of no one (in certain situations like religion, but not with things like skin tones, another recent controversy) is that it could lead to people being offended. If I'm not mistaken, religion is about believing in a god, but in the Sims, aren't you supposed to be the "god"? In short, I personally do not see a need to have any religious or political references in the game (even the ones that I didn't mention), but if a majority of simmers would want that, I wouldn't mind it being implemented. My main concern is how touchy the topic is and that some people may get offended in some way. If a lot of simmers want the shrine back, but for it to be optional, (I'm only talking about the shrine because I've seen lots of people saying they want it back) that's completely fine with me. I just think it's easier for the Sims Team to exclude religion than to implement every single religion into the game.
(My apologies for any spelling errors, I'm trying my best but I'm half-asleep at the moment.)
...but in the Sims, aren't you supposed to be the "god"?... In short, I personally do not see a need to have any religious or political references in the game (even the ones that I didn't mention), but if a majority of simmers would want that, I wouldn't mind it being implemented. I just think it's easier for the Sims Team to exclude religion than to implement every single religion into the game.
(My apologies for any spelling errors, I'm trying my best but I'm half-asleep at the moment.)
Np, im sure most of my comments have spelling errors lol!
Interesting. I do not consider myself to be the God of my sims, theyre more like dolls with some automation in my opinion. I think Will Wright tho in Sims 1 had a gag where your sim could like climb up to heaven and there was a giant size version of him asleep on the clouds lol. Ive played some games where there is no religion or politics at all, and some that include everything (even ways to create your own faith/religion). I don't mind either one but since I am religious I am in favor of giving us the tools to do with what we want. Im moreso annoyed with EA for allowing some religions/culture/politics but not all. They dont exclude all and they dont include all, which is unsatisfactory to me, and ends up creating a bias when they really should be neutral. Either be hot or cold lol
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
Comments
But uh, yeah.
Suggestions like that which won't turn as much a profit as Disney's Marvel Celestials are likely what will occur if inclusion is indeed what EA is going for.
Which leads to politics in the threads, as well as some users being offended over everything. (Recent behavior on Gaia Online, unfortunately.)
I feel bad for the mods who have to clean up after all this mess, and can't say I blame the mods who don't want to interfere.
No longer taking build requests/questions, sorry.
"Even people who have no idea about the topic like Pixelade jumped on the bandwagon",
"People should get over it, it was many years ago" is easy to say when you are on the side that either only watched or actively were the aggressors.
I am not specifically talking about Korea / Japan here but it can be applied anywhere. "The Native Nations should just be quiet about Thanksgiving, I don't get why they are still triggered by the celebration of it". "Why are people criticizing Columbus day?", "Jewish people should stop being so sensitive!", "Women should learn to take a joke!", "Gay People are always so sensitive" and so on.
Obviously I have a lot more to say, but I don't want to get TOO political on a millennial simulator forum. You can PM me if you wanna talk politics and stuff or whatever. But yeah, I just wanted to say that there's a serious issue where EA selectively listens when it comes to serious issues.
The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
Yes, this is my main gripe with this
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
I like the idea that the team, instead of removing the bowing to the shrine and textures/patterns for CAS and furniture from the game files outright, they just hid/disabled it. So, that modders can enable it back. This wouldn't really be an issue for PC users, who uses mods like me. So, console players who wants the removed textures and bowing to the shrine in their game back, are out of luck.
I mean the team already made the animation for the bowing, and created the textures/patterns for both the furniture and clothing. It wouldn't really be appropriate, when the textures and animations were finalized from the time and research they had done, before 3 weeks after the release of the Expansion Pack. So, they made a compromised by making new textures/patterns and replacing the animation. While keeping the old ones hidden.
Here's my sim wearing the old texture back (the fan one with the highlights), and bowing to the shrine to pay respect to the spirits. Thanks to a mod that added them back as new swatches, rather than overriding it.
And, these too. I don't really know why the team had to remove the Yagasuri (arrow feather) patterns for the kimonos, to an all straight version of it. But, I got them back too.
To PC simmers who wants them back, here are the links to enable the textures and animations back. FOR PC ONLY! sorry console folks.
Removed furniture texture (Override):
It's not only the franchise failed to be inclusive. It's the community themselves too.
.~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~..~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'♥'~•.,,.•~'
゚・。・
The simplistic solution would've been for EA to have merely removed "offending" content from the country of origin that made the request- disincluding the US, due to the freedom of art being the greatest freedom available in the country.
Pretty certain we've discussed this, but EA practically admitted to it being offensive through the removal without a proper cultural board to confirm some random online group's cancel culture claims.
As for the mods, I wouldn't recommend using them.
If EA truly aims for inclusion, then it's only a matter of time that they start going after "offensive" community content.
No longer taking build requests/questions, sorry.
Solid idea.
They didn't remove the shrine >_>, it's still there. The animation for the bowing was replaced with an inspired/thinking animation.
It wasn't a full religious system, like in Medieval with Jacobson/Peterson , but more like hints towards it so you can role play if you choose, just like other religious content already in the game ( Menorah, Diwali, Day of the Dead, Christmas items etc). Religion can be controversial, but it doesnt have to be when people respect eachother. They also have included many other things considered controversial by some, but EA is selective about which lifestyles and cultures they want to promote (not fully inclusive).
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
/ɪnˈkluːsɪv/
1.
including all the services or items normally expected or required.
"menus stating fully inclusive prices"
2.
not excluding any of the parties or groups involved in something.
"only an inclusive peace process will end the conflict"
So based on this definition shouldn't Japanese religion (or some refrence to it with a fake name since this is the sims) be included in a Japanese pack? How does one want to be inclusive by choosing which side of the conflict to support and which to censor.
If The Sims 4 is really going for that realistic reflections of reality aka "everyone is represented" I have to say two things. First, it's a fire sure way to create conflict and two if you want to reflect reality you can't censor things by picking a side of a conflict between to groups to support. You have to stay neutral and censoring the shrines just isn't a neutral position.
I’ve been saying that for years. The Sims 4 community is *not* inclusive.
Going to add onto that with a better executive choice for determining inclusion than a staff member:
noun: semiotics
the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation.
noun: semiotician
a person who studies semiotics
Article
No longer taking build requests/questions, sorry.
Thank you so much. Yes I appreciate that they left it 💛💛💛💛💛
If I remember correctly, South Korean simmers were offended because of the history behind it while Japanese simmers' were proud of the representation of their culture. This situation gets sticky when one group of people are offended while the other is a part of the culture. Not implementing religion at all could of avoided this. I'm not sure if I explained that in a good way, does that make sense?
Also, I'm aware religion wouldn't be controversial if people respected other peoples' beliefs, but if people respected other people's beliefs, religion wouldn't be a controversial topic. In this case, it's not really about people not respecting someone's culture (I haven't seen anyone disrespecting another person's religion/beliefs), but others being offended by a shrine that is a big part of another culture.
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Do you mean if only religious iconography was removed the game would be free of some controversy? Even political or secular things added also came with controversy. These are a few examples of religious,political,cultural,secular controversy from the sims series :
It wasn't just the Shrine they were offended by, but also the "Rising Sun" which was a secular, nationalistic/political icon.That still caused some to be offended by another's culture/history. But the sims team does not shy away from politics and is even political in-game and online with its staff. You could say there is bad history amongst other religions featured in Sims games and more secular things, like in TS3:WA there are egyptian builds in irl they were built by israelite slaves. TSM had the "Christian" religions who have persecuted others (Crusades), some have said TS4:JA was colonalist since you explore a latin-inspired land to plunder its valuables, some were offended by the "change sim" options and being able to turn on/off fem/mas options in CAS, witches/spellcasters etc are included (pagan religious symbols and practices there), some consider a hijab a symbol of religious oppression, yet others see it as only cultural or secular, but they still were implemented in game. EA is selective about what lifestyles, politics, cultures etc it promotes, but say they're inclusive or pretend to be indifferent at other times but they arent.
Im for including all kinds of backgrounds and let us decide what we choose to use. Some would like it completelty religous and politics-free, but EA is deciding for us- but not consistently. They play both sides. The inconsistency leads to hypocrisy and irritation.
There are some aspects of the game right now I can consider offensive because it is against my moral/spiritual beliefs, but I just choose not to use those options or purchase that dlc and my game can be played my way.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Replying to your first question, not just the religious aspects, but, yes to the political things, too. I, personally, don't think either should be in the game. I didn't mention the Rising Sun because the shrine got more attention in the videos and articles I watched/read on the topic. I didn't mention any other religions being in the game because this thread is mainly about the recent controversy surrounding the new pack, nor do I know of many being in the game since I don't play it that often. I don't feel as though I know enough about the other religions you mentioned, which is why I didn't speak on those. Even as someone who celebrates Christmas, I don't think it should explicitly be in the game, but I think it would be nice to have the resources to make it, just like any other religious event.
The thing about including everyone instead of no one (in certain situations like religion, but not with things like skin tones, another recent controversy) is that it could lead to people being offended. If I'm not mistaken, religion is about believing in a god, but in the Sims, aren't you supposed to be the "god"? In short, I personally do not see a need to have any religious or political references in the game (even the ones that I didn't mention), but if a majority of simmers would want that, I wouldn't mind it being implemented. My main concern is how touchy the topic is and that some people may get offended in some way. If a lot of simmers want the shrine back, but for it to be optional, (I'm only talking about the shrine because I've seen lots of people saying they want it back) that's completely fine with me. I just think it's easier for the Sims Team to exclude religion than to implement every single religion into the game.
(My apologies for any spelling errors, I'm trying my best but I'm half-asleep at the moment.)
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Np, im sure most of my comments have spelling errors lol!
Interesting. I do not consider myself to be the God of my sims, theyre more like dolls with some automation in my opinion. I think Will Wright tho in Sims 1 had a gag where your sim could like climb up to heaven and there was a giant size version of him asleep on the clouds lol. Ive played some games where there is no religion or politics at all, and some that include everything (even ways to create your own faith/religion). I don't mind either one but since I am religious I am in favor of giving us the tools to do with what we want. Im moreso annoyed with EA for allowing some religions/culture/politics but not all. They dont exclude all and they dont include all, which is unsatisfactory to me, and ends up creating a bias when they really should be neutral. Either be hot or cold lol
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
The pyramids were built by Egyptians, mostly farmers who worked as wage laborers during the Nile flood season.