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"We Aim To Be Inclusive"

DarkwingzDarkwingz Posts: 65 Member
edited November 13 in The Sims 4 Game Feedback
For those that pre-ordered the Snowy Escape Pack, I got notified by a user that bowing at shrines can no longer be done.
The Sims 4 team aims to be inclusive, yet actively censors and removes Japanese culture.
This is just as nonsensical as adding in a prayer bench, and then removing a prayer function because Jews and Christians have historically not got along.
It not only removes inclusivity of people who the prayer base does represent, but acts as if bowing in Japan isn't the norm.
If we can have a menorah in Animal Crossing New Horizons, then we should be able to unlock bowing in the Sims4.
To do otherwise would only make a further mockery of EA's historical videogame failings.
I look forward to the Kinder Egg crew's more ironic statements to back up this kneel to a fake cancel culture movement.
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Comments

  • DarkwingzDarkwingz Posts: 65 Member
    edited November 15
    I also want to add onto this thread by saying that two cultures with historic backlash can indeed get along.
    As an example, take how popular the Marvel characters Hulkling and Wiccan are in Brazil.
    (They were boys who came from Christian and Jewish backgrounds, and are now a happy gay couple.)
    The Sims 4 team only hinders the modern progression of religion by adhering to Twitter's cancel culture demands for justice to which no currently surviving family lineage has witnessed. (Elders generally do not live longer than 60-90 years.)
    Furthermore, such actions of removal only enforces the cancel culture mob's perception that such features were intended to offend.
    A perception which will help neither EA nor the common player base. (Regardless of practicing Shintoism or Buddhism.)
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  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 1,907 Member
    This thread is probably going to be closed. I totally get what you're saying but these topics just turn into religious/political arguments.
    What's done is done. I was disappointed it was removed also but I think we should move on from this. A modder as added it back too.

    Inclusive or not The sims is a company before anything. And just like any other company you do what you have to in order to protect that company.
    I don't agree with it per se but I I understand why the choice was made. And they were definitely in between a rock and a hard place.

    The over sensitive cancel culture of 2020 is annoying as all heck and I hate it. But it's over at this point. And the cancel culture is not going anywhere anytime soon.
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • EliteGirlEliteGirl Posts: 99 Member
    What about the TV show, "Glitch Techs" where a unique group of individuals save the world from dangerous glitches? And the TV show "Kipo And The Age Of Wonderbeasts"? They are proof that different, unique individuals can get along. I think the Japanese culture should stay in the game, but that's just me.
  • BluegayleBluegayle Posts: 3,053 Member
    You can still bow it was only removed from the shrine. Although to appease & remain inclusive they maybe could have had an option to toggle shrine bowing? I don't know enough about this to comment on whether it was right or wrong. There are just so many "wrongs" in all our history.
    Being positive does not mean ignoring the negative. Being positive means overcoming the negative
  • DarkwingzDarkwingz Posts: 65 Member
    edited November 15
    Bluegayle wrote: »
    You can still bow it was only removed from the shrine. Although to appease & remain inclusive they maybe could have had an option to toggle shrine bowing? I don't know enough about this to comment on whether it was right or wrong. There are just so many "wrongs" in all our history.

    They could've labeled a trait as "Polite," and made it where the sim pays respect to certain objects such as shrines or statues and other sims in specific worlds.
    That way no sim could act without the player's input, unless they depend on the Randomize button.
    (In the case of Randomize A Sim, it likely wouldn't be an option, even if you had the pack.)

    I wanted to add in this quote from Kotaku:
    The shrine represents something people believe. The beliefs have a long history and a collective memory within Japan. Shrines are places people go to pray and reflect. Shrines are places that protect. This isn’t just something to be included in a game because it looks “neat” or “cool.” This is a country’s culture that is being borrowed for financial gain and then tossed aside in the name of inclusivity.

    Players in Japan don’t seem happy with the situation.
    Post edited by Darkwingz on
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  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,696 Member
    I understand your frustration but I think this is the one time when EA really isn't at fault. This conflict has been going on for a long time and it's not just with the Sims 4. There is a very pro-active Korean community dedicated to abolishing every piece of that particular religion. It's just a never-ending fight where both sides are kind of right but at the same time also kind of wrong.

    EA didn't realize what they got themselves into and there is really they could do that would keep the shrines in the game. The Korean fanbase for the Sims is very large and then even people who have no idea about the topic like Pixelade jumped on the bandwagon in the name of social justice and started talking trash about how EA doesn't do research or is insensitive.
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  • SuperbusSuperbus Posts: 5 New Member
    Notwithstanding having passed eye to the comments made through this thread and the likelihood that it may be checked, I too wish to add my thoughts in regards to this matter.
    I shall avoid implicating the issue of race as, from an objective standpoint, the removed content at debate (the act of bowing at shrines) has zero relevance upon the relationship in which the nations referred to previously by others in the thread.

    The Shinto religion, much like the pantheons of Europe in antiquity, existed well before its formal acknowledgement in the 6th century CE whereby the varied ancient Japanese practices of worship (and if one were to follow common academic thought, not all of which had their origins in Japan) were collectively recognised as Shintoism, as to differentiate these ancient practices from Buddhism and Confucianism, which had then been recently introduced into the country. It is true that following the Meiji Restoration in 1868 , Shintoism had once again seen reform, but this was an act that largely concerned the separation of Shintoism and Buddhism rather than a total reformation of the religion, and the state sponsorship of Shintoism was short lived.

    In regards to the act of bowing, this tradition can be traced back as far as the 4th century BCE and is of Chinese origin and its origins in Shintoism are thought to have originally been an influence of its close association to Buddhism prior to the Meiji Restoration and as touched upon previously, the reform brought forward by the Meiji Restoration was one to disassociate Shintoism from Buddhism.

    In conclusion the removal of the content concerned, as stated in my opening, has absolutely no historical significance in regards to the reasons that the content had been removed for.
    In fact, one could argue that the removal of such practice (albeit one would have to be educated in such a field to identify such subtleties) is in fact removing an element of Shintoism that had likely been introduced from Buddhism and thus only acting in furtherance of what had intended to be mitigated.
  • JPNekoJPNeko Posts: 264 Member
    How can a religion be insensitive? Banning the bowing is the same thing as if the islamic religion was banned just because there are some terrorists who wrongly use their extreme view of religion to justify their acts. Just because some Japanese enforced their religion on Koreans during the war, doesn't mean religion itself was to blame. If we went by the same logic, there'd be no Christians in the world. :s
  • DarkwingzDarkwingz Posts: 65 Member
    edited November 16
    @JPNeko
    I believe there once was a mosque that was planned to be built in my area. It got voted as not to be built after all.
    People threw a virtual hissy fit of calling it "racism," due to the vast amount of churches, when the actual issue was with the amount of traffic that would invite to a low traffic area.
    (Churches only call to prayer on Sundays, Mosques call five times a day. To put that into Sims City terms, you'd need wider streets for more traffic flow. Suburban streets aren't enough, and you can't move the houses to make room for that.)

    There seems to be a lot of insensitivity to other facts in the world, other than just the involved party's feelings.
    It definitely seems as if EA jumped the gun here on multiple levels. (Which shocks no one, considering their current legal cases.)
    New shrine models should probably be included in new free packs, in order to not further offend the Japanese audience.
    Asking for these packs to involve more "Sulani Worship/Culture" content might be asking a bit much.
    (But should be done, now that Shintoism was released and quickly removed.)
    Post edited by Darkwingz on
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  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 2,141 Member
    I think the problem Is a lack of personal responsibility , and accountability.Not every pack is going to be gear towards everyone.Also due to Ea being progressive.They are for a culture that would remove anything, on the guise of offending someone.
  • EliteGirlEliteGirl Posts: 99 Member
    edited November 17
    I think the problem Is a lack of personal responsibility , and accountability.Not every pack is going to be gear towards everyone.Also due to Ea being progressive.They are for a culture that would remove anything, on the guise of offending someone.

    Well, I think that EA was right to include the LGBTQ+ community because not only is there a lot of LGBTQ+ community people, but it's the right thing to do. LGBTQ+ people are human just like everyone else, with feelings and body parts. I know this post of mine is controversial, but that's just how I feel.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,696 Member
    EliteGirl wrote: »
    I think the problem Is a lack of personal responsibility , and accountability.Not every pack is going to be gear towards everyone.Also due to Ea being progressive.They are for a culture that would remove anything, on the guise of offending someone.

    Well, I think that EA was right to include the LGBTQ+ community because not only is there a lot of LGBTQ+ community people, but it's the right thing to do. LGBTQ+ people are human just like everyone else, with feelings and body parts. I know this post of mine is controversial, but that's just how I feel.

    @EliteGirl I mean that is completely fine in my eyes and is also very different than the situation with religion. The LGBTQ+ and racial minorities all need to be in a game about life. Now the thing with religion is, it's not bad if it is in the game but it doesn't have to be a real life religion, it could be an imaginary one so no controversy arises.
    Someone's sexuality or the color of their skin are things that cannot be changed and need to be in a game, but someone's belief/religion is more of a personal choice and it is in my opinion not as essential in a life simulator.
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  • DarkwingzDarkwingz Posts: 65 Member
    edited November 17
    @SimmerGeorge I went ahead and added that Simified version into a comment on a hopefully more visible thread.
    To put it simply, it utilizes the pre-established Sulani spirit system. It will be close to Shintoism, while remaining a Sims tradition.
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  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 2,141 Member
    EliteGirl wrote: »
    I think the problem Is a lack of personal responsibility , and accountability.Not every pack is going to be gear towards everyone.Also due to Ea being progressive.They are for a culture that would remove anything, on the guise of offending someone.

    Well, I think that EA was right to include the LGBTQ+ community because not only is there a lot of LGBTQ+ community people, but it's the right thing to do. LGBTQ+ people are human just like everyone else, with feelings and body parts. I know this post of mine is controversial, but that's just how I feel.

    I wasn't talking about including lgbt, or race for that matter.
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 2,141 Member
    Also, there is nothing morally right, or wrong including minorities or not.
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 2,141 Member
    Also, there is nothing morally right, or wrong including minorities or not.
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 4,012 Member
    Honestly, this is the first time I feel sorry for them...lol In their attempt to be inclusive, I think they opened themselves up to be criticized at every step. I wish them luck but they are set up to fail in my opinion. In this life, it is impossible to please everyone so someone will always be angry about something.
  • MovottiMovotti Posts: 7,441 Member
    I won't believe that they're aiming to be inclusive until there's a Baphomet statue in the game.
    It would fit nicely with the occult and mystical aspects they've already included in the game.
    AmusingExhaustedArchaeopteryx-max-1mb.gif
  • Lorenerd11Lorenerd11 Posts: 30 Member
    It still feels ridiculous that we have a non-binary pride flag object, but not a non-binary gender setting in Create-A-Sim.
  • DarkwingzDarkwingz Posts: 65 Member
    edited November 18
    @Lorenerd11 I would personally expect to see an option like that in the Aliens settings as some sort of Subrace. (Celestial, maybe?)
    But if EA did a Celestial pack based off of Disney's Marvel continuity, it would likely be a race of it's own with new features similar to vampires.
    (Such as phasing/mist form skill unlocks.)
    Removing/adding the breeding option (with WooHoo/Have Baby) can be done manually already, so shouldn't be too hard to modify code with new mesh.
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  • Lorenerd11Lorenerd11 Posts: 30 Member
    Why would it be limited to aliens? It would simply be an option for Sims to be referred to with gender neutral pronouns. There's people irl who go by gender neutral pronouns.
  • DarkwingzDarkwingz Posts: 65 Member
    edited November 18
    @Lorenerd11 I was suggesting it as a possible inclusion in new features, I never said that EA couldn't also add it into a free update as well.
    For some users, pronouns in a UI alone might not be the same as having a matching body type.
    Darkwingz wrote: »
    Removing/adding the breeding option (with WooHoo/Have Baby) can be done manually already, so shouldn't be too hard to modify code with new mesh.

    The real question is, will EA make it a free update?
    If it can sell in an aliens or space bonus pack, then it probably will not be free content.
    (Which would anger the Twitter mob.)
    So yes, it would be free, and a gender neutral Sulani Deity themed Pack or whatever else is new would act as the cash cow instead.

    But if there's anything else you'd like to see in that scope, I tried to narrow down the financials/demands in a new comment in another thread.
    Feel free to quote me there and add anything you'd want different or similar.

    gend1.png



    Post edited by Darkwingz on
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