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Why Doesn't Maxis Care About the Baby Sims?

CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,250 Member
edited October 15 in The Sims 4 Game Feedback
I'm making this thread for everyone who is a family player that loves to play the babies and toddlers.

What is missing about the TS4 baby Sim?

It's an object, you can put it in the family inventory and leave it there....what does this say about Maxis?

In TS2 you can take the baby to the mirror and change it's appearance, ...it's a Sim. Hair, eyebrows, etc.

You can take the baby to the sink and bathe it when changing the diaper isn't enough hygiene care.

You can pass the baby into the arms of another Sim to hold and take care of it. Many interactions.

Sims can talk to the baby while the other Sim holds it. Builds up relationships. The baby is a Sim.

You can take the baby wherever your Sim goes on the lot, they can't be brought to community lots.

You can place the baby on a rug on the floor or bare floor. This was not unusal when I was a kid, mothers would put a blanket on the floor so they could keep an eye on the child (no rolling off a couch!) Builds social to be in the same room as parent.

During a fire Sims in the family rescue the baby....who rescues the baby in TS4? Nobody.

Though Maxis didn't give the baby clothes in TS2, modders were able to create clothes from the standard diaper.

Study Parenting, later in an EP in TS2. This gave the parent an edge on why was the baby crying and if it needed something like social, food, or play/fun, or diaper change, or simply needed cuddled and held.

Changing tables, no more messy diapers all over the floor. But were expensive for a broke family.

Hiring a nanny, when too many things to do such as kids and toddlers and babies in the home. Most of my nannies did their jobs maybe not as fast as I would do it, but they did seem to know when they were hungry and or when they needed changed. Schedule when the nanny would show up due to work schedules. Toddlers were a bit more tricky since they played with toys and ignored the nanny trying to feed them. Nannies also made beds and cleaned dishes, and sometimes cooked for other kids in the home, so players did get upset if they didn't rush off to get the baby first.
Clean house equaled better care of baby when the nanny showed up.

TS3, Sims could take the baby to the parks and other community lots. No one ever left the baby at a community lot in my game. If I was playing the parent and had them doing something else, other Sims on the lots or in the world would pick up baby and care for it. I don't know about other people's games.

TS3, strollers, the baby was a Sim, and not some crib object stuck in family inventory.

If you know of other things I have forgotten, please post them.

Maxis, it's a real shame you care nothing about that life stage at all. It's clear you don't. Six years and nothing done about it.





















Post edited by EA_Joz on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


Comments

  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 1,901 Member
    Personally I don't think it's so much as they don't care about them. I think it's more so they just haven't gotten to it yet 😉
    I truly believe they are in the works and will be amazing like toddlers in this series.

    We all know the story of how this was a scrapped online game so of course it was missing all of these things. And since the company didn't want to wait and spend more time on the game before releasing this is what we got, and the gurus had to make it work.

    And I more so blame simguru grant for bad priorities.When he was there it seemed he had stuck in his head that players didn't care that much about family play so they didn't make it a priority.
    Maybe they thought player wouldn't even care that much because babies are a quick lifestate most people want to breeze through.

    I'm not a baby player myself I would barely use them but I'm always rooting for more family play 🙂
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,250 Member
    edited October 13
    Personally I don't think it's so much as they don't care about them. I think it's more so they just haven't gotten to it yet 😉
    I truly believe they are in the works and will be amazing like toddlers in this series.

    We all know the story of how this was a scrapped online game so of course it was missing all of these things. And since the company didn't want to wait and spend more time on the game before releasing this is what we got, and the gurus had to make it work.

    And I more so blame simguru grant for bad priorities.When he was there it seemed he had stuck in his head that players didn't care that much about family play so they didn't make it a priority.
    Maybe they thought player wouldn't even care that much because babies are a quick lifestate most people want to breeze through.

    I'm not a baby player myself I would barely use them but I'm always rooting for more family play 🙂

    You know why so many love the older games? Because even if they don't play something a family player or rotational player might do, the option is there. That's why people are still playing older games because there is so much in them that they haven't actually done it all even now.

    Thanks for the support. I don't think six years later Maxis can claim they care. It's not like Lyndsay didn't know this back when Rachel was the overseer and or when Lucy Bradshaw was running things and or when Grant went rogue. She has been the overseer for many years now, it seems it was more important do things like SW, IL, and EL more than make a life stage for the game rather than leave it as an object.

    I can't agree they care at all. What they do is what they like, ignoring what people have told them they want to see. It's the same difference to some as skin types, gender neutral clothes, or environment challenges. They knew all this at the time the players told them they would like to see improvements with the life stages in a life simulator, like on day one and even before that during the four year development of the base. They knew all this during the years of TS3 when people asked for a baby stage that wasn't a bundle.

    They can't claim they care when it takes years and years to do something about something. They choose what is to be done, not us. So, no they don't actually 'care' about any life stage in this game. They care about what they care about and that has nothing to do with what players want to play.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • logionlogion Posts: 2,042 Member
    edited October 13
    I remember reading an old interview with a simguru who explained the choices that they made with the sims4, when asked why the babies are objects they said it was because of clipping issues, they wanted the sims to be able to lift them up without clipping.

    What I find interesting is that they solved these issues some years later with the cats and dogs expansion. Sims can walk around and interact with a pet while it is on the ground and the sim can lift it up. And we got toddlers as well.

    I don't know if Maxis and EA can't finance moving babies or if the reason is because they simply don't want to, because Project Olympus was not designed for it so they have to change how the game handles babies from the ground up. I am not a game developer but it seems like the tools are there ever since Maxis made Cats & Dogs, they just need to work some more on them. But I am not sure if that will ever happen.
    Post edited by logion on
  • Simsister2004Simsister2004 Posts: 3,499 Member
    I agree to most of this. But if you tend to fullfill the game challenges themselves, one of them is legacies. In legacies you need to have babies, of course also growing up so all ages. But as it is now - at least for me - the baby time is one to pass quickly. If we had more things to do with them as walking them in strollers/carriages, bathing them in the sink like in The sims 2, sitting on the couch until they fell asleep - - things like that. Just imagine, if you could put them to sleep outside in a small carriage like we do in RL. I would really love it and enjoy the baby time more.
  • simvasionsimvasion Posts: 91 Member
    Sometimes you have to look at something objectively and think... does that really improve my gameplay or is it just something that sounds cool in concept but in reality isn't?

    I think they'd add stuff to babies if there was an actual gameplay benefit - like they added the ability to give them knitted onesies recently because it ties in with knitting gameplay. But fluff stuff, even if it was in a previous game like washing babies in sinks or handing them to other sims... doesn't add much value to gameplay at all if you really look at it from an outside in view.

    Bathing babies in sinks sounds cool, but if changing a diaper maxes their hygiene fully, then why bother? What would passing around babies to people do other than waste time, or lose your baby (like in TS2 there was a bug where the nanny would carry the baby off lot after they were dismissed and "kidnap" your baby).

    I support them adding more baby gameplay if they can actually think of something that would be fun, have value and make the game better. Like first-person baby mode where you must learn skills and actually benefit the baby, or an Eco-Lifestyle or Woodworking crafting set for new baby bassinets or bassinet upgrading, actual stuff like that.
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 18,465 Member
    I love the baby gameplay in Sims 2 and Sims 3. I don't know why we got object babies in S4 and I don't think we'll see any changes at this point so I'm hoping we get an awesome baby stage in Sims 5. Hopefully the Sims 5 developers will take all of this feedback into consideration when designing the baby stage.
    Always believe that something wonderful is about to happen. 😊
  • suetoopsuetoop Posts: 9 New Member
    As much as I would like babies to be sims and not objects, I personally don't see it happening. There is really no incentive for them to improve babies as there would be no profit to them unless they released a "baby stuff pack" which would outrage most players, myself included, who believe we should not have to pay extra for something that should be a base game feature.
  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 5,746 Member
    It was first meant to be an online game so I expect they weren't contemplating babies and even children in the game at all. Who'd want their children to be controlled by someone else online? They had to slip them in somewhere in the game later and that must have taken some time.
  • adamzaidadamzaid Posts: 1,939 Member
    edited October 13
    what i dont understand is that the simgurus are clearly hearing our cries, they know what we want in the sims 4 yet for some odd reason they keep dodging them. i have a wierd hate/love thing with the sims 4. i love the sims 4 for what it is but there was so much potential thrown out of the park for very odd reasons that i dont get. i hope at least the upcoming expansion pack will be something fun cuz idk the last pack that made me so invested in the sims 4 was seasons tbh. ok got a bit offtopic there lmao sorry but yea while i personally dont care babies are the way they are rn, many people want real babies and i would love to see the change as the sims 4 is a life sim and it kinda ruins the immersion when ur baby is a item XD
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,425 Member
    edited October 13
    Personally I don't think it's so much as they don't care about them. I think it's more so they just haven't gotten to it yet 😉
    I truly believe they are in the works and will be amazing like toddlers in this series.

    This. I'm a huge baby/toddler player. I love both stages and even delay aging on babies for a long time, but obviously while I love the babies in Sims 4 they could be improved. I really believe they are coming and I think they will be amazing when they do!

  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,425 Member
    suetoop wrote: »
    As much as I would like babies to be sims and not objects, I personally don't see it happening. There is really no incentive for them to improve babies as there would be no profit to them unless they released a "baby stuff pack" which would outrage most players, myself included, who believe we should not have to pay extra for something that should be a base game feature.

    I can't see many being enraged by this. THere was no one enraged when they released toddlers with a toddler stuff pack, everyone was thrilled! It'd be the exact same?
  • bella_gothbella_goth Posts: 1,128 Member
    because they were an afterthought just like teens, kids and elders.
    toddlers and pets were done way later also pets have the color wheel, yet they seem to be better done and the color wheel causes no issue, i think it's because they had more time to develop them. it seems they don't want to check all the coding for the older life states because it will probably take a lot of time. ea should allow devs to stop doing so many packs and let them focus on improving the game and fixing its bugs.
  • EnkiSchmidtEnkiSchmidt Posts: 3,291 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    In TS2 you can take the baby to the mirror and change it's appearance, ...it's a Sim. Hair, eyebrows, etc.

    It says a lot about my interest in babies that I didn't know this, despite having played Sims 2 from launch to 2016 and still sporadically.
    I only ever put a fridge right next to the crib, and a kitchencounter with it's own trash compactor (or a chute) that would later hold the smart milk dispenser and then never removed the baby aside from the six-hourly tending to the baby's needs. (Far more intuitve than babies are now: baby goes yellowish green -> feed & cuddle, baby goes deep yellow -> change diaper, cuddle & play, otherwise ignore baby).
    Simblr Currently running: Sims 4 Police Academy, loosely inspired by Detroit: Become human
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,425 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    In TS2 you can take the baby to the mirror and change it's appearance, ...it's a Sim. Hair, eyebrows, etc.

    It says a lot about my interest in babies that I didn't know this, despite having played Sims 2 from launch to 2016 and still sporadically.
    I only ever put a fridge right next to the crib, and a kitchencounter with it's own trash compactor (or a chute) that would later hold the smart milk dispenser and then never removed the baby aside from the six-hourly tending to the baby's needs. (Far more intuitve than babies are now: baby goes yellowish green -> feed & cuddle, baby goes deep yellow -> change diaper, cuddle & play, otherwise ignore baby).

    The babies changed color in Sims 2 for needs? I'd somehow forgotten that but ugh, that's terrible lol!!!! I've played all the games, but it wasn't until Sims 4 I really started to enjoy it more and get into it a lot... the earlier versions were more of a sporadic game play to me and I wasn't on the forums back then so I don't know nearly as much about them.

    Sims 4 babies need a lot added to them but at least they don't change colour haha!

    I think when they finally are updated they'll be the best yet, same as toddlers were :)

    Sims 2 had the best animations though and I hope they add the one Cinebar mentioned where you can pass the baby from one Sim to another. I don't think they will but I think it'd be really nice if they could.
  • OmairaOmaira Posts: 665 Member
    Unfortunately babies will not be fixed in this game, nothing really does get fixed properly and more and more things get broken with every single pack released and patches etc.
    And the next pack will be yet another disappointment.
    This game has passed it's *sale by date" time and it's only getting worse by the minute.
    I am really sorry OP because I would have liked for babies to be "sims" really, but even in the sims 3 they were lacking and I hoped they would improve them and see what happened? they got worse.
    And not only babies, but a lot of other things too.
    Toddlers, when they were finally introduced in game, were an improvement, they are a lot more fun than the ones in TS3, hard work, like in real life, but fun!
  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 2,932 Member
    TS2 also has a feed baby with bottle interaction. Sorry, Simvasion, but everything Cinebar mentioned is some sort of game play that impacts not only baby needs but relationships between baby and whoever is doing the caring. As already stated, babies are little sims that respond with various expressions and movements to the interactions. Sadly, with nothing done in 6 years, there is little likelihood of anything being done in the game's remaining development life. What matters to EA is profit, and expending resources on babies does not fit that paradigm.
  • izecsonizecson Posts: 2,143 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »

    Changing tables, no more messy diapers all over the floor. But were expensive for a broke family.


    Funny, I know what you mean is literally broke, but I played with Broke family in TS2 (Brandi Broke and her three children) and I was actually struggling to buy anything let alone changing tables.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,250 Member
    edited October 14
    simvasion wrote: »
    Sometimes you have to look at something objectively and think... does that really improve my gameplay or is it just something that sounds cool in concept but in reality isn't?

    I think they'd add stuff to babies if there was an actual gameplay benefit - like they added the ability to give them knitted onesies recently because it ties in with knitting gameplay. But fluff stuff, even if it was in a previous game like washing babies in sinks or handing them to other sims... doesn't add much value to gameplay at all if you really look at it from an outside in view.

    Bathing babies in sinks sounds cool, but if changing a diaper maxes their hygiene fully, then why bother? What would passing around babies to people do other than waste time, or lose your baby (like in TS2 there was a bug where the nanny would carry the baby off lot after they were dismissed and "kidnap" your baby).

    I support them adding more baby gameplay if they can actually think of something that would be fun, have value and make the game better. Like first-person baby mode where you must learn skills and actually benefit the baby, or an Eco-Lifestyle or Woodworking crafting set for new baby bassinets or bassinet upgrading, actual stuff like that.

    I understand what you are saying about gameplay benefit however, it's/ was a life simulator. It was not a goal orientented, scripted, level as high as you can go type game. If we think like what is the gameplay benefit then there really is no need for YAs and Elders in The Sims, either.

    First because those two life stages are no different than an adult stage. In TS4 they don't matter at all. What do I mean by that as far as gameplay value? Think about it. Child, maybe because they can gain skills for later in life things to do and gain or to build upon personality, however, in TS4 IIRC children in the game lose those benefits when they turn into teens or did. Teens, ok, yeah, necessary as far as 'gameplay value' because they sort of have a set personality goal etc. YA, not necessary in TS4 like it was in TS2 because of how late University pack was released in TS4. So, YA is no more than adult life stage, and elderly really no need to keep them around anymore. So, if we ask what is the gameplay value of babies being improved and expanded upon....we can say the same about YA and Elders in TS4. The Sims should be about the journey not the goal of reaching the end game.

    It sort of reminds me of years and years ago when some played The Sims and they stated 'I don't understand the game, what's it about? What are you supposed to do? What is the goal? There is no win or lose.....'

    The type question you asked (about gameplay benefit) seems to fit within those comments about a life simulator over twenty years ago. :)

    It's supposed to mimic life, or not? If we look back what was the purpose of opening a dresser drawer and see folded clothes inside it when Sims changed clothes? Or opening a car door to get in and have to sit down and turn the key.

    Slot popping is not a life simulator. I hope Maxis will someday soon just admit TS4 isn't one.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,250 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »

    Changing tables, no more messy diapers all over the floor. But were expensive for a broke family.


    Funny, I know what you mean is literally broke, but I played with Broke family in TS2 (Brandi Broke and her three children) and I was actually struggling to buy anything let alone changing tables.

    lol, yes. I was so afraid to play that household. lol I finally did and man she was really, really broke and couldn't afford the changing table and why she had so many dirty diapers all over the house. I thought that was why she was throwing up. But found out she was also pregnant. Good times!
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,250 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    In TS2 you can take the baby to the mirror and change it's appearance, ...it's a Sim. Hair, eyebrows, etc.

    It says a lot about my interest in babies that I didn't know this, despite having played Sims 2 from launch to 2016 and still sporadically.
    I only ever put a fridge right next to the crib, and a kitchencounter with it's own trash compactor (or a chute) that would later hold the smart milk dispenser and then never removed the baby aside from the six-hourly tending to the baby's needs. (Far more intuitve than babies are now: baby goes yellowish green -> feed & cuddle, baby goes deep yellow -> change diaper, cuddle & play, otherwise ignore baby).

    The babies changed color in Sims 2 for needs? I'd somehow forgotten that but ugh, that's terrible lol!!!! I've played all the games, but it wasn't until Sims 4 I really started to enjoy it more and get into it a lot... the earlier versions were more of a sporadic game play to me and I wasn't on the forums back then so I don't know nearly as much about them.

    Sims 4 babies need a lot added to them but at least they don't change colour haha!

    I think when they finally are updated they'll be the best yet, same as toddlers were :)

    Sims 2 had the best animations though and I hope they add the one Cinebar mentioned where you can pass the baby from one Sim to another. I don't think they will but I think it'd be really nice if they could.

    The baby doesn't change color it's the avatar that changes color. Red means your baby is going to soon be taken away by the social worker. A real Sim who comes to take them away. It's the same thing as avatars in TS4 changing color based upon the mood. TS2 avatar background changes color not the actual face.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • Simsister2004Simsister2004 Posts: 3,499 Member
    edited October 14
    Yes, I admit, every time I have bought a newer sims game, I have expected it to be including the same features as I loved in the previous version and then some more. This is NOT the case with babies, and it is NOT the case with many other features. We had to wait very long time to get toddlers. Some more interesting babies will last like forever, I think.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,250 Member
    edited October 14
    Yes, I admit, every time I have bought a newer sims game, I have expected it to be including the same features as I loved in the previous version and then some more. This is NOT the case with babies, and it is NOT the case with many other features. We had to wait very long time to get toddlers. Some more interesting babies will last like forever, I think.

    There is a lot more they could add such as teething, or the croup, a serious illness, but no fear the TS4 Sim has the handy pc to just slot pop in some medicine., and or cradle cap etc. The Sim could have to order the special comb and shampoo. (Added care needed for babies). I can see how non family players wonder why any of this matters in their YA game, but it's supposed to be about life a baby in crib with a grip (stuck) is not life and totally ignores such an important stage of life. A totally, little, helpless being with no more a thought given to them than a snail. I remember my Sims in TS4 couldn't have cared less their baby was crying. :/

    ETA: And if TS4 really has many years left, then there is no reason they can't start working on them. It's not like they don't have the time, if it has years to go....
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • InuMiroLoverInuMiroLover Posts: 663 Member
    Child sims barely even get a new shirt in new packs, so Im not going to hold out much hope for babies getting a proper update. If babies and toddlers were that important to the company as much as they are to family players, we probably wouldnt be having this conversation. Toddlers would have been in the game since day one and babies would have also had much more gameplay attached. I'll eat my hat if we get more content that expands on all sims under child age, but Im just not convinced that players are going to get any sort of meaningful update for babies.
  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 5,746 Member
    Perhaps the kind of people who want more baby action aren't the Simmers who allow Maxis to get feedback from their played games? Those may have turned the option off.

    Maxis pays attention to that. I find babies a bit of a nuisance myself but don't mind more stuff if Simmers want it. I avoid them by rotating and coming back to the family when they've grown up a bit - or a lot.
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 2,138 Member
    Personally I don't think it's so much as they don't care about them. I think it's more so they just haven't gotten to it yet 😉
    I truly believe they are in the works and will be amazing like toddlers in this series.

    This. I'm a huge baby/toddler player. I love both stages and even delay aging on babies for a long time, but obviously while I love the babies in Sims 4 they could be improved. I really believe they are coming and I think they will be amazing when they do!
    Personally I don't think it's so much as they don't care about them. I think it's more so they just haven't gotten to it yet 😉
    I truly believe they are in the works and will be amazing like toddlers in this series.

    This. I'm a huge baby/toddler player. I love both stages and even delay aging on babies for a long time, but obviously while I love the babies in Sims 4 they could be improved. I really believe they are coming and I think they will be amazing when they do!

    By six years? They have no plans to update babies.Unless they just now working on them.
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