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New World Discussion Del Sol Valley

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    phantom121294phantom121294 Posts: 151 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    happyopi wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Everything. A 32bit game can only see and use 3.4 gigs of ram (and has to share that with your OS as well) - a 64 bit game can utilize all the ram your pc can handle. The more ram your pc has the more sims, houses, programming - you name it - can be handled by the game as long as your pc meets the game recommended requirements.. Lack of ram causes pcs to crash more than any other reason outside of excess heat or component failures. Error 12 is an indication of not enough ram - and that just happened to be Sims 3 most frequent error. That game was starved for ram.

    Also keep in mine 32 bit games are really slow compared to 64bit games. So there is no good reason why this game should have performance issues.

    Okay, but I'm not talking about performance issues there. TS3 was using a game engine made for open neighborhoords. TS4 is not.
    Coding such a core feature in the engine would take time and effort, and when you have your new engine ready, you have your existing game built on the previous version, what do you do then ?

    I still hope they manage to do it someday though.

    What difference does that make? It makes no difference on the kind of engine Sims 3 had - 64 bit is 64 bit - and allows things 32 bit does not. That's as bad as the" performance issue in the future" answer we got from them as to why we get so few lot in this world.. If you don't know, don't just throw anything out there. I happen to know better. I built my first pc back in 1984 before we had a windows operating system. Took machine basic back before that in 1981. Went back to college in 1989 and took computer sciences. Jeez - it's okay not to know something - but wild guesses isn't a solution. I was not even suggesting an open world - is the point. It was their answer to why we only get 6 residential lots. Not enough lots is the problem - and has nothing to do with this game engine or needing an open world game engine. I mean are you really okay with 6 residential lots and 3-4 of them already filled with game sims? I was asking about just adding 3 more residential lots.

    I would have figured that someone with such a background would know that actually the engine does matter....like a lot. In fact the main reason why we are here with 11 lots is in fact engine limitations on the amount of households in a neighborhood, and the amount of sims available to player in all of the worlds. The guru's are quite worried about the next 3 years and how the engine will handle ever increasing sims limit. We have 180 allotted to us at the moment. Again you said this isn't an engine issue when in fact its entirely an engine issue. Also you are absolutely right in saying that 32 bit to 64 bit is cause for the elimination of some constraints and instability issues. However game engines, CPU power, GPU power, and VRAM amount also play a role in limitations of the game. Specifically GPU and CPU processing. These are all factors in this discussion.

    Most of here appreciate your expertise but the other poster was just trying to point out an observation or make a point. No need for personal attacks.

    The 180 Sim limit went away years ago, FYI. Details here: https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/905991/culling-relationship-culling-decay-current-status/p1

    Currently, there's a default cap of 80 or 200 on your "favorite" (protected from culling) Sims. That cap can be manually turned off. The full population cap before culling begins is 675. It was last raised when Seasons was released.

    There have been gradual performance increases all along as the game has developed, and increases in what the game can handle (without mods) in terms of population... and, obviously, lots for that population to live in. Looks like they hit more of a roadblock this time than with other EPs. EP releases have regularly seen population cap increases. I get the impression that they've left things open in terms of communicating this because the software engineers may or may not be able to break the current roadblock quickly. I suspect that as a result they've shifted some of what might have been space in this EP into some of what's being developed for the future rather than use more of it now and have even tinier worlds coming up before that roadblock is broken.

    As for the game engine, it's not something that's 100% set in stone. I suspect that terrain editing, for example, is a major edit to the game engine.

    Totally agree that they're dealing with performance limitations caused by what Simmers play on. There's only so far they probably cut lower-end computers off before too much of the games purchasing base disappears for development to continue at all. It's likely either nobody gets a Sims game or higher-end computer owners give up something so there can be one for everyone. Unfortunate reality, but a probably one.

    Ah yea your totally right forgot about the cap lift. Even still I think the lot and sim cap are still the biggest concerns if kate's tweet is taken at face value. But again you are right the engine can be updated and tweaked its just a matter of time, money and expertise. Even engines have can limits however (fallout's terrible creation engine is a prime example) if they are running into issues at this venture we might be approaching them. It also might be a big fixable problem that they didn't get around to doing yet.



    I'm sure also that designing weather for all the worlds going forward also probably had a hand in it.
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    qpmommaqpmomma Posts: 135 Member
    Without create a world or a world where we can add or resize our own lots we depend on these worlds. I am going to get bored of this world very quickly with so few lots to use. I was hoping they were going to make up for the customization with giving us big worlds with plenty of lots, but that’s not happening. I was going to get this pack for the world but now it’s not worth it. I hope they don’t continue down this path, but I’m not getting my hopes up.
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    mustenimusteni Posts: 5,417 Member
    The few lots in the slum area bother me too, but I probably wouldn't have wanted a world like Windenburg. It's absolutely gorgeous, but the problem is that the distances are very long, even in the town area. The devs seem to have problems filling all that space with passerbys and often the areas remind a ghost town rather than a bustling town center. That's why I'm willing to wait and see what these three lot neighbourhoods are like.
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    Shadow_AssassinShadow_Assassin Posts: 1,675 Member
    I just found this in wiki: Vanessa Jeong just moved to Del Sol Valley from her quaint country town.
    Now there hasn't any world can count "quaint country town", maybe hint the new world. But it possibly indicate this town is in Vanessa's country(form her surname she's Korean)
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    NetzspannungNetzspannung Posts: 2,456 Member
    I really don't like to put out a lot of negative vibes before a new pack comes out, because I love it when the community is excited, but I am disappointed. I was never even planning on having all actors/celebrities in Del Sol Valley (I thought the island in Windenburg would be a cool retreat for the artistic ones) but 11 lots just makes me feel claustrophobic. I wanted to add a fancy restaurant, a bar and a nightclub ... I guess I could change one of the lounges ... Also the park isn't only small, but I was not impressed by it or the museum and usually I like Maxis builds. <sigh> I will get the pack at some point, I guess, but not at full price - even though the new gowns are amazing, have to give them that at least.
    If I just posted an outfit you like, I have good news - there is more where that came from!
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    Simmer_chiyenSimmer_chiyen Posts: 362 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    bixters wrote: »
    "Performance issues" just means they ran out of time. There is no way this game can't handle a couple more lots per world. None. I can see why Cats & Dogs and Seasons could effect performance, but this is minuscule. They just ran out of time or budget. Performance is just an excuse.

    We don't know, nobody could know the actual reason. It is certaintly I think the world was planned to have this amount if neighborhoods from the beginning.

    They plan things in advance and not just after we finish this part we move on, to the next and see how many we can create. Nope before they started the pack everything that was already there is already planned.

    Their wnvironment team is responsible for creating worlds, and this pack was in development possibly before the release of seasons. In that case During the development of Brindleton Bay, They are also developing Selvadorada, and adjusting the worlds for Seasons. After
    the release of Cats and Dogs focus must be put on Selvadorada and Present worlds. As packs start to develop this things are known in advance so its possible that they must have been decided to plan only this amount of lots in the world, if you think of it, While they are finishing up the worlds for Seasons, Del Sol Valley is not just the world that is in development. World for EP7 of Even GP6 might be in development. As Seasons was release the environment team possibly shifted their rescources to Finisihing up the planned content for this world, and some might even went to other worlds in development. And by that time finishing up their planned world content.

    TLDR I dont think they runned out of time. Every content is being planned in advanced based on their schedule. They know from the beginning what content will they include based on their rescources. If it was rushed it should lack detail
    , just like Oasis Springs feels rushed.

    What makes me chuckle is that I’d accept and cut them some slack if this was the reason they’ve given us in the first place. Although I’d then suggest that they extend the production period for worlds (they’ve already said this iteration has 3+ years). I just can’t fully buy the “performance” reasoning unless they explain in detail about it. I’m not an expert in computing but I do know enough to know that unloaded lots do not tax a computer’s RAM and CPU power. And it’s not like they have TS3 style story progressions, so unloaded sims stay inactive, not using any computing energy, until they’re pulled into the neighborhood.

    Though I’d be happy to be corrected if someone does provide a decent and logical explanation. :)
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    HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 8,825 Member
    The few lots in the slum area bother me too, but I probably wouldn't have wanted a world like Windenburg. It's absolutely gorgeous, but the problem is that the distances are very long, even in the town area. The devs seem to have problems filling all that space with passerbys and often the areas remind a ghost town rather than a bustling town center. That's why I'm willing to wait and see what these three lot neighbourhoods are like.

    I agree with this. I hope we get different size worlds. I've had to move sims out of Windenburg because the commute was too long (especially for the school children). Although I love to have my joggers living there. I'm not saying larger space wide worlds shouldn't be in our future but I like a mix. They should make it fit the vibe.
    egTcBMc.png
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    kitty29041985kitty29041985 Posts: 792 Member
    Weird new city... almost no lot to live in. Very limited. I have to delete some publics to build residential and move sims in. I am a bit upset that it's small. Yes, look big but not real, I mean unplayable.
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    kitty29041985kitty29041985 Posts: 792 Member
    Koteyka wrote: »
    I feel like i'm gonna love this world. San Myshuno is nice, but besides the Spice District looks unrealistic to me. This, on the other hand, looks like a place i'd gladly move my sims too.

    I love San Myshuno, and always my sims live there, but yes, only Spice District looks like real, others something like "from space", not real, so basically no streets at all. I love new city, look real because of streets but I hope i'll find the place to move my sims, because not much lot there :(
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    kitty29041985kitty29041985 Posts: 792 Member
    elelunicy wrote: »
    I wonder how many lots there are in this neighborhood. Pretty difficult to tell which buildings are real and which are fake.

    bxoORyv.jpg

    Almost all of them fake :(
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    LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,666 Member
    What makes the thing troubling for me is that it looks like that there are areas on the map where editable lots could be put in, like near the beach and some of the area on the right.
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    DianesimsDianesims Posts: 2,908 Member
    What makes the thing troubling for me is that it looks like that there are areas on the map where editable lots could be put in, like near the beach and some of the area on the right.

    I wish they had made a beach neighborhood, with fishing spots, the second lounge club and the gym, and maybe villas/houses with an ocean view (kind of Malibu like).
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    SimburianSimburian Posts: 6,919 Member
    What we need is the ability to build a couple of apartment blocks so that several families can move into the poorer area, each with their own front door and a landlord to deal with and those huge communal wastebins. That something that I miss from previous games and would have suited this pack.
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    Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    happyopi wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Everything. A 32bit game can only see and use 3.4 gigs of ram (and has to share that with your OS as well) - a 64 bit game can utilize all the ram your pc can handle. The more ram your pc has the more sims, houses, programming - you name it - can be handled by the game as long as your pc meets the game recommended requirements.. Lack of ram causes pcs to crash more than any other reason outside of excess heat or component failures. Error 12 is an indication of not enough ram - and that just happened to be Sims 3 most frequent error. That game was starved for ram.

    Also keep in mine 32 bit games are really slow compared to 64bit games. So there is no good reason why this game should have performance issues.

    Okay, but I'm not talking about performance issues there. TS3 was using a game engine made for open neighborhoords. TS4 is not.
    Coding such a core feature in the engine would take time and effort, and when you have your new engine ready, you have your existing game built on the previous version, what do you do then ?

    I still hope they manage to do it someday though.

    What difference does that make? It makes no difference on the kind of engine Sims 3 had - 64 bit is 64 bit - and allows things 32 bit does not. That's as bad as the" performance issue in the future" answer we got from them as to why we get so few lot in this world.. If you don't know, don't just throw anything out there. I happen to know better. I built my first pc back in 1984 before we had a windows operating system. Took machine basic back before that in 1981. Went back to college in 1989 and took computer sciences. Jeez - it's okay not to know something - but wild guesses isn't a solution. I was not even suggesting an open world - is the point. It was their answer to why we only get 6 residential lots. Not enough lots is the problem - and has nothing to do with this game engine or needing an open world game engine. I mean are you really okay with 6 residential lots and 3-4 of them already filled with game sims? I was asking about just adding 3 more residential lots.

    I would have figured that someone with such a background would know that actually the engine does matter....like a lot. In fact the main reason why we are here with 11 lots is in fact engine limitations on the amount of households in a neighborhood, and the amount of sims available to player in all of the worlds. The guru's are quite worried about the next 3 years and how the engine will handle ever increasing sims limit. We have 180 allotted to us at the moment. Again you said this isn't an engine issue when in fact its entirely an engine issue. Also you are absolutely right in saying that 32 bit to 64 bit is cause for the elimination of some constraints and instability issues. However game engines, CPU power, GPU power, and VRAM amount also play a role in limitations of the game. Specifically GPU and CPU processing. These are all factors in this discussion.

    Most of here appreciate your expertise but the other poster was just trying to point out an observation or make a point. No need for personal attacks.

    The game engine is built during development for open world. In order to change a game to open world the game engine and it's basegame needs a complete over haul - you can't just patch the base game to open a world up - is a fact - without providing what design an open world needs.

    64 bit architecture - while it will play a 32 bit game as well as a 64 bit game - you cannot play a 64 bit game on a pc only made for 32 bit games. So the fact they overhauled the engine and base to run 64 bit architecture - for those running 32 bit pcs are not going to be able to run any of the games made on the 64 bit architecture - which is Cats and Dogs and Seasons so far that I know of. You cannot just pick and choose all the games made for Sims 4 if your pc and OS is only capable of 32 bit period. That is a fact.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

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    Isa_MenezesIsa_Menezes Posts: 101 Member
    edited October 2018
    We see so many cars... Why they didn't put these cars even like decor for us, players, to use them in our lots?
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    Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited October 2018
    We see so many cars... Why they didn't put these cars even like decor for us, players, to use them in our lots?

    It's FX magic - they are visual and run on an fx loop - and sims cannot see or interact with FX at all. You see it - they don't.

    This game is filled with FX - the snakes and birds in the Jungle of JA - the paddle boat and sail boats, the sea monster. The trolley and the train, the planes and copters and so much more are visuals just for human eyes only that play the game. What's more where fx exists your sims and solid objects can not. If your sim could use an fx path or even cross the path - the fx would go right through them and do no harm - but generally they do not allow your sims on any fx paths anyway as it looks freaky - even if it does nothing. To them though crossing the fx road is the same as walking on the sidewalk - the only one that sees the difference is you - the players. But your sim will never interact with fx objects - so it would really not be a way to use them even as decor. They exist on that fx loop.

    I do not know if the parked vehicles are solid or not. I would assume they are so perhaps some of those if they released them as the decor they appear to be - could be placed as decor on lots. I do not know as I have really not looked into it - as I am not a fan of cars as decor really. I prefer actual usable items myself.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
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    HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 8,825 Member
    I know people don't "believe" in hints but I think cars will come. I dont think it will be in this pack. I think they are teasers in a sense though. I don't know when they will come but there have been lots of hints dropped. The boats kind of threw me for a loop also... hmm.
    egTcBMc.png
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    drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,115 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    I know people don't "believe" in hints but I think cars will come. I dont think it will be in this pack. I think they are teasers in a sense though. I don't know when they will come but there have been lots of hints dropped. The boats kind of threw me for a loop also... hmm.

    It won’t be in this pack they have made that very clear. If they want to hint that cars are coming eventually (with no time table whatsoever and no confirmation that such stuff is even in the works) they can do so without littering a world with prop cars that will only ever be props.
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    HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 8,825 Member
    I haven't paid attention are cars parked in front of the playable lots?
    egTcBMc.png
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    drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,115 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    I haven't paid attention are cars parked in front of the playable lots?

    Yes there are a lot of props in this new world, and they have been staged in the immediately playable area. Usually they keep these things towards the outskirts, but now they have just filled playable space with props.
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    HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 8,825 Member
    edited October 2018
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    I haven't paid attention are cars parked in front of the playable lots?

    Yes there are a lot of props in this new world, and they have been staged in the immediately playable area. Usually they keep these things towards the outskirts, but now they have just filled playable space with props.

    I just skimmed a few videos... I don't see cars (so far) parked immediately in front of a playable lot. Maybe I wasn't clear I mean like a lot I want to build on and move my sims into. If if this isn't the case then they don't bother me at all. They just add to the look of living in that type of city. If anything it would be weird if they weren't there. That's just me though.
    I was concerned if they are placing cars in front of buildable lots it might mean we are less likely to get them in the future is all.
    egTcBMc.png
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    luvdasims55luvdasims55 Posts: 14,653 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    I know people don't "believe" in hints but I think cars will come. I dont think it will be in this pack. I think they are teasers in a sense though. I don't know when they will come but there have been lots of hints dropped. The boats kind of threw me for a loop also... hmm.

    the camper was unexpected as well as the boat for me. I don't think cars or the roads were hints of things to come. Rather, I believe it was all set dressing to immerse us in the Hollywood vibe. I don't see driveable cars in The Sims 4, but maybe we'll get them to interact with. One can always dream. :)
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