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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old

Comments

  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited October 2018
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    ETA: Are we going back to floppy discs? Python is a big hit for games there.

    ETA: Here you go, want to build a game in Python, have at it.


    http://pythonprogramming.net/pygame-python-3-part-1-intro/

    Well the creator of Python just won the Noble prize for it for advancement in mathematics, science - you name it - seems perhaps it's better than you think - sort of indicates top dog wouldn't you say. Especially seeing this is at least the third time Python has won the Noble prize that I recall - maybe even more than that.


    https://qz.com/1417145/economics-nobel-laureate-paul-romer-is-a-python-programming-convert/

    How many games use Python is the question when it's used for data analysis. That is the question. Python was used for simple games years ago, maybe they use it for all those pop up messages you get in TS4. As I said no one is knocking Python as a computer language program/software/ concept but how many modern games use Python? We are talking about games, not how well this can gather data or write apps.

    ETA: What most people don't know is Python was free. I'm not sure a newer version will be free for Windows 10. And if you want to undestand how Python is used you can learn Python in seven days. This is the last time I hope I have to speak about Python.

    http://www.kaggle.com/page/python-course-ads?utm_medium=paid&utm_source=google.com+search&utm_campaign=us+learn+python+7day+challenge&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIksuM2qv-3QIVDb7ACh3sbAu0EAAYAiAAEgLM1vD_BwE

    Well I want to see you use C++ and C# in 7 days. Go for it. May be a 1990's early version or the online version they give you for free to learn some of the basics. I did things like that before but I will never even suggest I am the least bit prolific with any pc language. It is definitely not the easiest and yes many games do use Python. Depends on the game. You know you can even get old Unity engine and such for free but doesn't make them great other wise they would not need new and better if you think about it. Also technically computer is about math and physics and science. It wouldn't exist other wise. It's the core of that machine you play games on.

    I learned Machine language well before any C anything was around before windows of any kind exist and I still used a book along beside me as all it took was one single miss of a asterisk of 0 where a1 belonged and a month of work was lost. C++ an C# makes machine language look like childs play. It still can take me two weeks to type up a game of hangman on mach language on one of our old 1980s heathkts. LOL. I tinker with them now and then with the old true floppies to. You know that cardboard types and add games my self now and then. They are awful really - my games but fun to try and do things now and then. It keep grand kids laughing. LOL.

    Unless you are prolific in programming don't believe that. I have a long background in the beginning of computer age - I am old than you are by far -and not the least bit convinced that is possible unless you practiced every day and did nothing but even then doubt it. I do all I can to read Python and I am still not great. I cheat - I call over my son who is a programmer and has been a programmer for 14 years since graduating college for Programming and returns to college often when thing change to stay up with everything. Even he would argue that point and he aces programming - know Maya like the palm of his hand. He build pcs from scratch I mean real scratch soldering every component on empty board. He builds competition rigs for my oldest son not pre mades, but from scratch. Run his own company. He will argue. My husband started out with pc when they were only made from empty boards and component you soldiered to the boards... and machine language you type into the things to make it do anything. There was once nothing at all like today. Today is a piece of cake in comparison but the stride in what they have done with it is beyond amazing. And what look simple in machine languages and how it has grown and approved is commendable and amazing. Comparing even the last rendition of certain machine language to the newest is a very big step even for people who know machine language and why one who does those things need to keep learning the newest and the best. It why my son goes back every fewyear and refreshes himself - also in even building system everytime the new gets made. It's part of that life for people who care - who really care.

    You use the best language needed for the game you are building. That is what matters.
    Until you've walked a mile in someone else shoes - how can you judge. You read it on the internet so it has to be right? I don't think so. But I have talked to people who walk in those shoes and rarely do they full agree with what they see on the internet. Judge for your self.
    Post edited by Writin_Reg on

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • 1ovemysims1ovemysims Posts: 57 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    ETA: Are we going back to floppy discs? Python is a big hit for games there.

    ETA: Here you go, want to build a game in Python, have at it.


    http://pythonprogramming.net/pygame-python-3-part-1-intro/

    Well the creator of Python just won the Noble prize for it for advancement in mathematics, science - you name it - seems perhaps it's better than you think - sort of indicates top dog wouldn't you say. Especially seeing this is at least the third time Python has won the Noble prize that I recall - maybe even more than that.


    https://qz.com/1417145/economics-nobel-laureate-paul-romer-is-a-python-programming-convert/

    How many games use Python is the question when it's used for data analysis. That is the question. Python was used for simple games years ago, maybe they use it for all those pop up messages you get in TS4. As I said no one is knocking Python as a computer language program/software/ concept but how many modern games use Python? We are talking about games, not how well this can gather data or write apps.

    ETA: What most people don't know is Python was free. I'm not sure a newer version will be free for Windows 10. And if you want to undestand how Python is used you can learn Python in seven days. This is the last time I hope I have to speak about Python.

    http://www.kaggle.com/page/python-course-ads?utm_medium=paid&utm_source=google.com+search&utm_campaign=us+learn+python+7day+challenge&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIksuM2qv-3QIVDb7ACh3sbAu0EAAYAiAAEgLM1vD_BwE

    Well I want to see you use C++ and C# in 7 days. Go for it. May be a 1990's early version or the online version they give you for free to learn some of the basics. I did things like that before but I will never even suggest I am the least bit prolific with any pc language. It is definitely not the easiest and yes many games do use Python. Depends on the game. You know you can even get old Unity engine and such for free but doesn't make them great other wise they would not need new and better if you think about it. Also technically computer is about math and physics and science. It wouldn't exist other wise. It's the core of that machine you play games on.

    I learned Machine language well before any C anything was around before windows of any kind exist and I still used a book along beside me as all it took was one single miss of a asterisk of 0 where a1 belonged and a month of work was lost. C++ an C# makes machine language look like childs play. It still can take me two weeks to type up a game of hangman on mach language on one of our old 1980s heathkts. LOL. I tinker with them now and then with the old true floppies to. You know that cardboard types and add games my self now and then. They are awful really - my games but fun to try and do things now and then. It keep grand kids laughing. LOL.

    Unless you are prolific in programming don't believe that. I have a long background in the beginning of computer age - I am old than you are by far -and not the least bit convinced that is possible unless you practiced every day and did nothing but even then doubt it. I do all I can to read Python and I am still not great. I cheat - I call over my son who is a programmer and has been a programmer for 14 years since graduating college for Programming and returns to college often when thing change to stay up with everything. Even he would argue that point and he aces programming - know Maya like the palm of his hand. He build pcs from scratch I mean real scratch soldering every component on empty board. He builds competition rigs for my oldest son not pre mades, but from scratch. Run his own company. He will argue. My husband started out with pc when they were only made from empty boards and component you soldiered to the boards... and machine language you type into the things to make it do anything. There was once nothing at all like today. Today is a piece of cake in comparison but the stride in what they have done with it is beyond amazing. And what look simple in machine languages and how it has grown and approved is commendable and amazing. Comparing even the last rendition of certain machine language to the newest is a very big step even for people who know machine language and why one who does those things need to keep learning the newest and the best. It why my son goes back every fewyear and refreshes himself - also in even building system everytime the new gets made. It's part of that life for people who care - who really care.

    You use the best language needed for the game you are building. That is what matters.
    Until you've walked a mile in someone else shoes - how can you judge. You read it on the internet so it has to be right? I don't think so. But I have talked to people who walk in those shoes and rarely do they full agree with what they see on the internet. Judge for your self.

    If yall are fighting over a company I wish you good luck. Because what is there's is there and no I don't want to keep This Sims 4 for years. But its no business of mind. I won't fight over it. Think about that. You will live longer if you don't fight over this, please.
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,228 Member
    edited October 2018
    In answer to the question posed at the top of this thread until yesterday I would have said no, but after seeing the focus and enthusiasm of that new terrain and building guy, I'd *love* to see what he manages to produce over 3 years! I say "he" but of course if he has a team working on it with him then I include them.
  • GarethlexGarethlex Posts: 159 Member
    candy8 wrote: »
    Catitude5 you be thinking the way I do, they do have Life but it isn't the same I do wish another company should come out and give EA some competention maybe that is what they need.

    Competition is probably what they need to kick them up the rear end ! They have no rivalry which is probably why they sit feeling safe and chill because we have no other modern day simulation to turn to !! As a substitute to the garbage we are served..
  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,602 Member
    Garethlex wrote: »
    candy8 wrote: »
    Catitude5 you be thinking the way I do, they do have Life but it isn't the same I do wish another company should come out and give EA some competention maybe that is what they need.

    Competition is probably what they need to kick them up the rear end ! They have no rivalry which is probably why they sit feeling safe and chill because we have no other modern day simulation to turn to !! As a substitute to the garbage we are served..

    Competition is cool, But EA has to split from Maxis hahaha, then let the fights begin. I would most likely play both haha.
    This is from my sister's mouth, She is the only person I know that ever played SIms on Line, ((She is old, Ouch that really hurt, she hit me :'( ))She would not lie to me. She said yes they did have competition before for Their Sims Online, She loved Sims online best, but She said all left for that New Online world, and she was upset but ended up there as well. She feels they should not have done that just up and closed but stayed and fight, She thinks they were better. That's it I have to go. No, she is not allowed to touch my PC hahaha.
    Regretting not buying all the Sims 3 packs when they were on sale. :s
    (Q) Which pack do I regret most buying?
    (A) Sims 4 base game.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,896 Member
    IngeJones wrote: »
    In answer to the question posed at the top of this thread until yesterday I would have said no, but after seeing the focus and enthusiasm of that new terrain and building guy, I'd *love* to see what he manages to produce over 3 years! I say "he" but of course if he has a team working on it with him then I include them.

    I missed the stream, I can't blame you but it just seems waiting on three more years to get stuff we saw on day one in the other games sort of sometimes gets very annoying. :D
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,228 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I missed the stream, I can't blame you but it just seems waiting on three more years to get stuff we saw on day one in the other games sort of sometimes gets very annoying. :D

    Except I have a feeling that if Greg stays on the job and is allowed to get on with it, the build tools could well eventually surpass what we've had before. Already we have (with minor shortcomings) apparently real light ray plotting, height changing windows and changing roof overhangs. Although we don't *yet* have CFE (and he says he's still trying to find a way to bring that) we can make one level overhang another which we couldn't before, and don't have to have "dummy levels" like we used to, since terrain can be brought up close underneath higher levels - that was never possible before in 1,2 or 3.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,896 Member
    edited October 2018
    IngeJones wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I missed the stream, I can't blame you but it just seems waiting on three more years to get stuff we saw on day one in the other games sort of sometimes gets very annoying. :D

    Except I have a feeling that if Greg stays on the job and is allowed to get on with it, the build tools could well eventually surpass what we've had before. Already we have (with minor shortcomings) apparently real light ray plotting, height changing windows and changing roof overhangs. Although we don't *yet* have CFE (and he says he's still trying to find a way to bring that) we can make one level overhang another which we couldn't before, and don't have to have "dummy levels" like we used to, since terrain can be brought up close underneath higher levels - that was never possible before in 1,2 or 3.

    That is breaking news! I'm happy they are finally bringing this to the game, and possibly improving what we had before. Thank you for the information. I just hope the next three years (if it goes on that long) actually helps catch up with the other games' bases or first patches and or first EP features. Guess they didn't mention any neighborhood tools? I know we waited on that version in the first EP patch for TS3 but I sure would love to see that, too. :) I want rid of those pink trees. Lovely, but so tired of them after four years.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • everyfan3417everyfan3417 Posts: 8 New Member
    Honestly, I think ever since the Toddlers update TS4 has actually gotten really good. But I disagree with OP that TS3 is a bigger game than TS2; honestly, even that one plus all expansions and store items is still missing half the features from The Sims 2.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2018
    IngeJones wrote: »
    In answer to the question posed at the top of this thread until yesterday I would have said no, but after seeing the focus and enthusiasm of that new terrain and building guy, I'd *love* to see what he manages to produce over 3 years! I say "he" but of course if he has a team working on it with him then I include them.
    Four years in and I should be convinced because they’re enthousiastic about a feature we’ve had for ages in the old games? I love enthousiasm but that is so not how it works for me... What are you expecting to be presented enthousiastically in 3 years? CASt? Open world? Personalities? Cars? Call me spoiled but I expect all that in a basegame or at least early on. For me this actually confirms the complaint and criticism in the OP, in any case it doesn’t take it away for me.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2018
    Honestly, I think ever since the Toddlers update TS4 has actually gotten really good. But I disagree with OP that TS3 is a bigger game than TS2; honestly, even that one plus all expansions and store items is still missing half the features from The Sims 2.
    Such as? Dogs drinking from the toilet? Bathing babies in the sink? Retail? They didn’t copy everything Sims 2 had, that’s for sure, but they added loads of features and stuff Sims 2 doesn’t have. It’s simply true Sims 3 is a big game, content wise. We warn people who start playing the game for the first time over at the TS3 section to not try and play it all at once because you’ll be completely overwhelmed when you do.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,602 Member
    edited October 2018
    Garethlex wrote: »
    candy8 wrote: »
    Catitude5 you be thinking the way I do, they do have Life but it isn't the same I do wish another company should come out and give EA some competention maybe that is what they need.

    Competition is probably what they need to kick them up the rear end ! They have no rivalry which is probably why they sit feeling safe and chill because we have no other modern day simulation to turn to !! As a substitute to the garbage we are served..

    They do not feel all that comfortable, That's the reason they are always seeing what's on our minds on social media, and this forum, If we ever do get truly Mad, like 70% of us or more, they will do something like with the ball pit, they had no intentions of changing that but not just Simmers, but everyone was laughing and showing how they could do better. Then they fixed it kind of sort of hehe.

    So Remember we do not have to take anything, and we do not have to walk on pin kissing up like they are children and do not know how to do what they have been doing for what ? 15 years? They know how to do it all. No cars this year, Well a nice car stuff pack for our homes and business parking would be sooo easy, If they care, well If they only cared. Rather you believe it or not the ball is in our pockets, not theirs. So do not let them fool you, it's a buyers game. When I go to a store and I do not like what they have, I spin around and walk right back out. No fighting! No Begging. And no not mad at the shop.
    Then when I go to one and I love what they have I can not wait to buy. The Mall is a buyers market too.

    I do not have a clue of what they will be doing for the next 3 to 4 or more years, while holding up our progress, but I do not think that decision had much to do with Sims 4 PC. Other than a long long delay in our progress.?
    Regretting not buying all the Sims 3 packs when they were on sale. :s
    (Q) Which pack do I regret most buying?
    (A) Sims 4 base game.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Stormsview wrote: »
    Garethlex wrote: »
    candy8 wrote: »
    Catitude5 you be thinking the way I do, they do have Life but it isn't the same I do wish another company should come out and give EA some competention maybe that is what they need.

    Competition is probably what they need to kick them up the rear end ! They have no rivalry which is probably why they sit feeling safe and chill because we have no other modern day simulation to turn to !! As a substitute to the garbage we are served..

    They do not feel all that comfortable, That's the reason they are always seeing what's on our minds on social media, and this forum, If we ever do get truly Mad, like 70% of us or more, they will do something like with the ball pit, they had no intentions of changing that but not just Simmers, but everyone was laughing and showing how they could do better. Then they fixed it kind of sort of hehe.

    So Remember we do not have to take anything, and we do not have to walk on pin kissing up like they are children and do not know how to do what they have been doing for what ? 15 years? They know how to do it all. No cars this year, Well a nice car stuff pack for our homes and business parking would be sooo easy, If they care, well If they only cared. Rather you believe it or not the ball is in our pockets, not theirs. So do not let them fool you, it's a buyers game. When I go to a store and I do not like what they have, I spin around and walk right back out. No fighting! No Begging. And no not mad at the shop.
    Then when I go to one and I love what they have I can not wait to buy. The Mall is a buyers market too.

    I do not have a clue of what they will be doing for the next 3 to 4 or more years, while holding up our progress, but I do not think that decision had much to do with Sims 4 PC. Other than a long long delay in our progress.?
    The point here is that people are accepting and ‘taking’ everything because they have no choice. Because that choice is the choice between playing the game (with all its flaws and shortcomings, hoping they will add it later) or not playing the game. I can perfectly understand people choose the first option. This monopoly position most definitely is a problem for the franchise from the fan’s point of view.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    Still some of us love the Sims here the way they are. If I did not love them I would not still be buying and playing them 19 years later. I have tried many other so call simular things everyone tells me is so great Harvest Moon, and other such offerings which rather rot if you ask me. I feel like in those things I am playing a cheap rendition of a bad Indie mobile game - yet people love them - I don't. I love the Sims.

    I don't want someone elses idea of the Sims - and glad EA does not make competition easy. As long as the Sims exist and I exist I will buy my Sims solely from EA. I still think they do it pretty right - not always perfect but then I have never in my history of gaming ever found a perfect game - never mind a bugless game and believe me I have spent tons of money looking. I always come back to the Sims - always - and always will.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • nickibitswardnickibitsward Posts: 3,084 Member
    edited October 2018
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Still some of us love the Sims here the way they are. If I did not love them I would not still be buying and playing them 19 years later. I have tried many other so call simular things everyone tells me is so great Harvest Moon, and other such offerings which rather rot if you ask me. I feel like in those things I am playing a cheap rendition of a bad Indie mobile game - yet people love them - I don't. I love the Sims.

    I don't want someone elses idea of the Sims - and glad EA does not make competition easy. As long as the Sims exist and I exist I will buy my Sims solely from EA. I still think they do it pretty right - not always perfect but then I have never in my history of gaming ever found a perfect game - never mind a bugless game and believe me I have spent tons of money looking. I always come back to the Sims - always - and always will.

    The Sims is the only PC game I play. I got the Sims 1 free when I bought my first computer way back in 2001. I don't play anything else. I have a few games on my ipad but none of them are Sim related, I've tried Sims Freeplay and Sims Mobile and dislike them both.

    It's only Sims 4 that I don't play. All I have is the base game. Completely against the norm for me, I bought everything for each iteration. But not 4. I can't do 4.

  • ScarletSimEaterScarletSimEater Posts: 113 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    I don't want someone elses idea of the Sims - and glad EA does not make competition easy. As long as the Sims exist and I exist I will buy my Sims solely from EA. I still think they do it pretty right - not always perfect but then I have never in my history of gaming ever found a perfect game - never mind a bugless game and believe me I have spent tons of money looking. I always come back to the Sims - always - and always will.

    Back when sims was still new, people tried making competing products. They generally failed because many of the "limitations" of the game (E.G: Simlish) in fact enhanced its longevity. I wouldn't mind if someone else tried their own hand at a dollhouse simulator game, but getting it right is a very tricky needle to thread properly.
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Four years in and I should be convinced because they’re enthousiastic about a feature we’ve had for ages in the old games? I love enthousiasm but that is so not how it works for me... What are you expecting to be presented enthousiastically in 3 years? CASt? Open world? Personalities? Cars? Call me spoiled but I expect all that in a basegame or at least early on. For me this actually confirms the complaint and criticism in the OP, in any case it doesn’t take it away for me.

    I'll give you CAStyle, since that's a broad tool that would be entirely within TS4's wheelhouse if they ever got around to implementing it.

    Otherwise, some elements of TS4 are very defensible and I could argue for carrying them over to TS5. Smaller neighborhoods over whole open worlds make sense, when there are people complaining about how just adding a few packs can cause their computers to start lagging. Others, like needing a loading screen to visit your next door neighbor, are pretty clearly shortcomings from having to rush the base game out the door.

    But serious question. If you could have either an earlier game philosophy towards packs, where they just threw a bunch of related elements in and called it a day, vs. a sims 4 philosophy with a heavy focus on giving a smaller number of versatile tools, which would you chose? I get the appeal of being given a box full of toys and sometimes being able to stack them together like legos, but I also like having knobs and dials to fine tune my experience just right.

    Obviously the preferred answer is to get both. TS2:OFB was a gem in that regard. But if they have to prioritize one or the other, which would you go for? Because when I hear people go on about things like cars or lounge chairs or specific object interactions, it sounds a lot like toys thinking over tools thinking. And I've always been someone who preferred tools over toys. So if you can't have everything, where would you prefer pack makers to focus their energies if you were in charge?
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Still some of us love the Sims here the way they are. If I did not love them I would not still be buying and playing them 19 years later. I have tried many other so call simular things everyone tells me is so great Harvest Moon, and other such offerings which rather rot if you ask me. I feel like in those things I am playing a cheap rendition of a bad Indie mobile game - yet people love them - I don't. I love the Sims.

    I don't want someone elses idea of the Sims - and glad EA does not make competition easy. As long as the Sims exist and I exist I will buy my Sims solely from EA. I still think they do it pretty right - not always perfect but then I have never in my history of gaming ever found a perfect game - never mind a bugless game and believe me I have spent tons of money looking. I always come back to the Sims - always - and always will.
    I love Sims 3. That doesn’t mean I feel they didn’t leave flaws in that game players shouldn’t have to accept. Especially players who love the game (my kids for instance never minded them I can assure you; they never really played the game, they play other games, so they weren’t affected by those flaws, just me, the Sims 3 fan). I accepted them because I had no choice. It was either that or quit playing. And that has always been an absolute no go for me, I’ve never even considered that for one second. So in fact loving the game is our Achilles’ heel, not an argument that it’s all fine.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2018
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    I don't want someone elses idea of the Sims - and glad EA does not make competition easy. As long as the Sims exist and I exist I will buy my Sims solely from EA. I still think they do it pretty right - not always perfect but then I have never in my history of gaming ever found a perfect game - never mind a bugless game and believe me I have spent tons of money looking. I always come back to the Sims - always - and always will.

    Back when sims was still new, people tried making competing products. They generally failed because many of the "limitations" of the game (E.G: Simlish) in fact enhanced its longevity. I wouldn't mind if someone else tried their own hand at a dollhouse simulator game, but getting it right is a very tricky needle to thread properly.
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Four years in and I should be convinced because they’re enthousiastic about a feature we’ve had for ages in the old games? I love enthousiasm but that is so not how it works for me... What are you expecting to be presented enthousiastically in 3 years? CASt? Open world? Personalities? Cars? Call me spoiled but I expect all that in a basegame or at least early on. For me this actually confirms the complaint and criticism in the OP, in any case it doesn’t take it away for me.

    I'll give you CAStyle, since that's a broad tool that would be entirely within TS4's wheelhouse if they ever got around to implementing it.

    Otherwise, some elements of TS4 are very defensible and I could argue for carrying them over to TS5. Smaller neighborhoods over whole open worlds make sense, when there are people complaining about how just adding a few packs can cause their computers to start lagging. Others, like needing a loading screen to visit your next door neighbor, are pretty clearly shortcomings from having to rush the base game out the door.

    But serious question. If you could have either an earlier game philosophy towards packs, where they just threw a bunch of related elements in and called it a day, vs. a sims 4 philosophy with a heavy focus on giving a smaller number of versatile tools, which would you chose? I get the appeal of being given a box full of toys and sometimes being able to stack them together like legos, but I also like having knobs and dials to fine tune my experience just right.

    Obviously the preferred answer is to get both. TS2:OFB was a gem in that regard. But if they have to prioritize one or the other, which would you go for? Because when I hear people go on about things like cars or lounge chairs or specific object interactions, it sounds a lot like toys thinking over tools thinking. And I've always been someone who preferred tools over toys. So if you can't have everything, where would you prefer pack makers to focus their energies if you were in charge?
    The point here is that they said they couldn’t do it or that it was a deliberate choice to not do it. Now it turns out to be possible after all and they present what they explained away earlier with enthousiasm. And that enthousiasm should convince me it’s perfectly fine Sims 4 needs so many years, when the earlier games managed to deliver the very same thing right away. I’m not saying others shouldn’t be convinced by that, it’s just that I’m not. Quite the contrary.

    I don’t understand the question you’re asking me, sorry..? I don’t find Sims 4’s tools versatile at all, I find the tools we got in the earlier games much more versatile. I find Sims 4 very limited and restricted, forcing me to play the game the way the creators want me to play it. While I play Sims 3 completely the way I want to and I take it the same goes for Sims 2 fans. I don’t see what tools Sims 4 gives you to fine tune your game, maybe you can give me an example. I can give tools that do that in turn: CASt, the ability to adjust worlds, 11 EP’s stuffed with gameplay I can use in multiple ways (like a roommate system that enables me to create an apartment building). All I can think of for Sims 4 in this respect is the club system, but at the end of the day that system will always have the same result: sims doing something autonomously you set them up to do and you sit back and watch it. It’s not a system I miss in Sims 3, I’m fine with the setting up a party system where I can invite sims who will come over and behave according to their skills, traits and feelings towards other sims (flirting with them, talking to them or insulting/start fights with them). Add some music and everything I need from a party is there. They can even dance together.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • ScarletSimEaterScarletSimEater Posts: 113 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    The point here is that they said they couldn’t do it or that it was a deliberate choice to not do it. Now it turns out to be possible after all and they present what they explained away earlier with enthousiasm. And that enthousiasm should convince me it’s perfectly fine Sims 4 needs so many years, when the earlier games managed to deliver the very same thing right away. I’m not saying others shouldn’t be convinced by that, it’s just that I’m not. Quite the contrary.

    Very few things are literally impossible when it comes to computing. More things are difficult, possibly more difficult to implement than is worthwhile. I'm not going to argue that employees of a company showing enthusiasm about a new tool proves anything, but I will also say that making terrain editing work and getting it to work properly are things that would understandably take a lot of time to get right. And when it comes to meaningful terrain manipulation (public space around lots, and the unreachable backdrops around that), you raise even more problems and I understand not wanting to muck with those too hard. Both on the programming side, and on the balancing side. (How much should I be allowed to mess with hidden lot portals, collectible spawn points, and dropping powerful objects before completely throw off those activities?)
    I don’t understand the question you’re asking me, sorry..? I don’t find Sims 4’s tools versatile at all, I find the tools we got in the earlier games much more versatile. I find Sims 4 very limited and restricted, forcing me to play the game the way the creators want me to play it. While I play Sims 3 completely the way I want to and I take it the same goes for Sims 2 fans. I don’t see what tools Sims 4 gives you to fine tune your game, maybe you can give me an example. I can give tools that do that in turn: CASt, the ability to adjust worlds, 11 EP’s stuffed with gameplay I can use in multiple ways (like a roommate system that enables me to create an apartment building). All I can think of for Sims 4 in this respect is the club system, but at the end of the day that system will always have the same result: sims doing something autonomously you set them up to do and you sit back and watch it. It’s not a system I miss in Sims 3, I’m fine with the setting up a party system where I can invite sims who will come over and behave according to their skills, traits and feelings towards other sims (flirting with them, talking to them or insulting/start fights with them). Add some music and everything I need from a party is there. They can even dance together.

    Clubs. Holidays. Vampires being a memorable case where even people who don't like TS4 tend to agree that they're the best implementation.

    Personalities are less robust in TS4, no disagreement there. I really do hope that tech monkeys are working on bringing that segment of the game up to date, so they can enthuse about the improvements later.

    But to take a TS3 vs. TS4 comparison, TS3 holidays are more detailed than TS4 ones, but also a lot more locked in while TS4 traditions are much more modular, easily added to, and easily mixed in a make-your-own sort of deal. Neither is objectively better or worse. But I do think that comparing "toys" (the TS3 style, where there's a lot more discrete stuff) to the "tools" (TS4, with a smaller number of things but a stronger emphasis on adding your own twist) could be a better point to start from. Because while there are many individual toys that I might not care much for - cars would still be a nightmare to add to TS4, for instance - I still think it's better to look at the overall philosophy vs. focusing on specific elements from past games.
  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 8,792 Member
    Going to butt in here.
    I really like the tools being provided now. I can't really compare with 3 though I only played it for a week in the beginning then about 10 hours total a few years back with a starter pack. However compared with 2 I have much more control over my sims through things like the club system now and the calendar/holiday system, lot traits, building wherever I want, grouping sims up, different lot types which allow me to tell stories better (especially the generic lot.. long may it live .. even if I do want them to add having club meetings available there). I know some folks don't like it but the control over how I want to play the game is one of the major reasons that I love it. I'm hoping the new fame system and the new reputation system will let us keep control and admittedly I'm a bit scared for that. I am looking forward to it though.. I have to see. My fingers are crossed but I have faith they will give us options somehow.
    egTcBMc.png
  • everyfan3417everyfan3417 Posts: 8 New Member
    Honestly there still might be issues with Create A Style. I know that to implement in for TS3, they wrote a sophisticated custom texture streaming engine. TS4 has no such thing, I suspect the Create A Style features we have now are implemented as part of the "skin" system, which applies a texture to the whole body. However, applying this to clothes and environment objects might be *much* more complicated than that.

    Honestly the main thing I miss from TS4 is a Sims2-style Scrapbook to keep track of the stories you create.
  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,602 Member

    They keep giving us uncompleted projects now our new Terrain tools have this and that , how silly to not to add water over the complete land just below the surface when you hit a low spot, if they can give us ponds, they can give us the pond water, They keep us annoyed, and I know we should get a car pack A car stuff pack for our homes and business. With the ability to wash our car move in and out of the driveways, teleport with our car to lots that have drives ways. To simple. No more excuses for them They Gave Sims Free Play cars

    Don't think they can not, they can, our delays in progress are because we are the at the bottom of the totem pole when they get it ready for sims mobile, and sims console, then we may get them. Just they feel we have invested so much, that we are not going anyplace and they can sell us a rock and we will buy it, from the desperation of lack of content. Still, they can give us more for Christmas. Who wants to do a commercial, from the1800's/ They, could have, they should have picked from the top of the list of what we wanted not so far down on the list that we do not even see it on our list. Cough up the builder's water, someone had to drink it at lunch. (The lack of attention to detail for Sims 4 is killing the fan's love for the game.)/b]
    Regretting not buying all the Sims 3 packs when they were on sale. :s
    (Q) Which pack do I regret most buying?
    (A) Sims 4 base game.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2018
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    The point here is that they said they couldn’t do it or that it was a deliberate choice to not do it. Now it turns out to be possible after all and they present what they explained away earlier with enthousiasm. And that enthousiasm should convince me it’s perfectly fine Sims 4 needs so many years, when the earlier games managed to deliver the very same thing right away. I’m not saying others shouldn’t be convinced by that, it’s just that I’m not. Quite the contrary.

    Very few things are literally impossible when it comes to computing. More things are difficult, possibly more difficult to implement than is worthwhile. I'm not going to argue that employees of a company showing enthusiasm about a new tool proves anything, but I will also say that making terrain editing work and getting it to work properly are things that would understandably take a lot of time to get right. And when it comes to meaningful terrain manipulation (public space around lots, and the unreachable backdrops around that), you raise even more problems and I understand not wanting to muck with those too hard. Both on the programming side, and on the balancing side. (How much should I be allowed to mess with hidden lot portals, collectible spawn points, and dropping powerful objects before completely throw off those activities?)
    I don’t understand the question you’re asking me, sorry..? I don’t find Sims 4’s tools versatile at all, I find the tools we got in the earlier games much more versatile. I find Sims 4 very limited and restricted, forcing me to play the game the way the creators want me to play it. While I play Sims 3 completely the way I want to and I take it the same goes for Sims 2 fans. I don’t see what tools Sims 4 gives you to fine tune your game, maybe you can give me an example. I can give tools that do that in turn: CASt, the ability to adjust worlds, 11 EP’s stuffed with gameplay I can use in multiple ways (like a roommate system that enables me to create an apartment building). All I can think of for Sims 4 in this respect is the club system, but at the end of the day that system will always have the same result: sims doing something autonomously you set them up to do and you sit back and watch it. It’s not a system I miss in Sims 3, I’m fine with the setting up a party system where I can invite sims who will come over and behave according to their skills, traits and feelings towards other sims (flirting with them, talking to them or insulting/start fights with them). Add some music and everything I need from a party is there. They can even dance together.

    Clubs. Holidays. Vampires being a memorable case where even people who don't like TS4 tend to agree that they're the best implementation.

    Personalities are less robust in TS4, no disagreement there. I really do hope that tech monkeys are working on bringing that segment of the game up to date, so they can enthuse about the improvements later.

    But to take a TS3 vs. TS4 comparison, TS3 holidays are more detailed than TS4 ones, but also a lot more locked in while TS4 traditions are much more modular, easily added to, and easily mixed in a make-your-own sort of deal. Neither is objectively better or worse. But I do think that comparing "toys" (the TS3 style, where there's a lot more discrete stuff) to the "tools" (TS4, with a smaller number of things but a stronger emphasis on adding your own twist) could be a better point to start from. Because while there are many individual toys that I might not care much for - cars would still be a nightmare to add to TS4, for instance - I still think it's better to look at the overall philosophy vs. focusing on specific elements from past games.
    Concerning “I'm not going to argue that employees of a company showing enthusiasm about a new tool proves anything”, it’s not so much about proving anything for me. Not sure what it would or would not prove, that they’re still enthousiastic about the game? I praise the dev who gave us back that tool, I think it proves someone up there at least understands what simmers actually want (I think Sims 4’s initial basegame was a token of absolutely misunderstanding that). But I feel like it will all be putting a sticking plaster on a wooden leg. It’s just fixing things that shouldn’t have been necessary to fix in the first place. I think the franchise will be better off with a brand new chance (from my perspective obviously).

    Clubs I adressed. It’s indeed an innovative system and one will like it, the other (me) won’t. Because it basically comes down to giving the game an instruction and then watch it play itself. That’s just not what simming is about for me (and there are never any consequences, it’s just watching a series of animations, like sims cooking together or making homework together). Holidays? Sims in the other games can have holidays too? In Sims 3 I can even give my sims a couple of days off and organize a holiday in their own world. Create a campsite near the sea and make it work. Others have, I haven’t yet but it’s one of the things I’m still planning to do (I hope that by making it a basecamp it will also attract other sims). Vampires indeed are great (in fact they pulled me back into playing and enjoying the game) but they’re not a tool, you mentioned tools ;) As for personalities: what worries me about that one, is that the reason personalities are less robust (as in, not there at all, I play two sisters now, one nice and friendly, the other evil, and they behave exactly the same way, there is no difference at all between them, I constantly have to imagine that) is that what hinders them is the actual core of the game: the emotions. They are meant to not have personalities, because the emotions will always come first. That’s a choice they made when they started to develop this game and the only way to solve that will be getting rid of that system. Will they? If there’s one thing that would highly please me: that ;)

    I don’t quite follow your theory about toys and tools. To me it seems it’s Sims 4 that has the toys (a lot of stuff packs) and Sims 3 that has the tools. Like I said, I can use those tools to create new storylines. It’s Sims 4 where I feel I can only play it one way, the way they designed it. Like, when I take my sim to GF, what are the different options? Or to Selvadorada? What twist can you give it? When I take my sim to China on holiday I can make her explore tombs (following an adventure path or not), I can make her work on skilling martial arts, I can focus on the townies and make her meet people (in their own houses). When I send her to France I can do the adventuring thing (also there, same goes for Egypt), I can focus on the people who live there, I can have a very romantic honeymoon there, I can teach her how to make nectar. When I take her to Egypt (apart from the adventuring again) I can focus on the basecamp, adding all kind of stuff there I got in other packs like a bonfire and different tents and games they can play etc etc, and other sims will start using all that too. Can I do all that when I take my sims to GF and Selvadorada? I’d love to hear how because I have JA and after a couple of hours of fun, it sort of collapsed for me. There’s the market where they can buy stuff, there’s the bar where they can dance and learn local habits and there’s the one temple that I know after visiting it once, even when I get seven different (but completely similar) templates to do the same thing (compare that to WA’s numerous and complex tombs). Finding my way through that jungle for me was the highlight of JA, but that didn’t take me more than a couple of hours and then what.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,896 Member
    edited October 2018
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    ETA: Are we going back to floppy discs? Python is a big hit for games there.

    ETA: Here you go, want to build a game in Python, have at it.


    http://pythonprogramming.net/pygame-python-3-part-1-intro/

    Well the creator of Python just won the Noble prize for it for advancement in mathematics, science - you name it - seems perhaps it's better than you think - sort of indicates top dog wouldn't you say. Especially seeing this is at least the third time Python has won the Noble prize that I recall - maybe even more than that.


    https://qz.com/1417145/economics-nobel-laureate-paul-romer-is-a-python-programming-convert/

    How many games use Python is the question when it's used for data analysis. That is the question. Python was used for simple games years ago, maybe they use it for all those pop up messages you get in TS4. As I said no one is knocking Python as a computer language program/software/ concept but how many modern games use Python? We are talking about games, not how well this can gather data or write apps.

    ETA: What most people don't know is Python was free. I'm not sure a newer version will be free for Windows 10. And if you want to undestand how Python is used you can learn Python in seven days. This is the last time I hope I have to speak about Python.

    http://www.kaggle.com/page/python-course-ads?utm_medium=paid&utm_source=google.com+search&utm_campaign=us+learn+python+7day+challenge&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIksuM2qv-3QIVDb7ACh3sbAu0EAAYAiAAEgLM1vD_BwE

    Well I want to see you use C++ and C# in 7 days. Go for it. May be a 1990's early version or the online version they give you for free to learn some of the basics. I did things like that before but I will never even suggest I am the least bit prolific with any pc language. It is definitely not the easiest and yes many games do use Python. Depends on the game. You know you can even get old Unity engine and such for free but doesn't make them great other wise they would not need new and better if you think about it. Also technically computer is about math and physics and science. It wouldn't exist other wise. It's the core of that machine you play games on.

    I learned Machine language well before any C anything was around before windows of any kind exist and I still used a book along beside me as all it took was one single miss of a asterisk of 0 where a1 belonged and a month of work was lost. C++ an C# makes machine language look like childs play. It still can take me two weeks to type up a game of hangman on mach language on one of our old 1980s heathkts. LOL. I tinker with them now and then with the old true floppies to. You know that cardboard types and add games my self now and then. They are awful really - my games but fun to try and do things now and then. It keep grand kids laughing. LOL.

    Unless you are prolific in programming don't believe that. I have a long background in the beginning of computer age - I am old than you are by far -and not the least bit convinced that is possible unless you practiced every day and did nothing but even then doubt it. I do all I can to read Python and I am still not great. I cheat - I call over my son who is a programmer and has been a programmer for 14 years since graduating college for Programming and returns to college often when thing change to stay up with everything. Even he would argue that point and he aces programming - know Maya like the palm of his hand. He build pcs from scratch I mean real scratch soldering every component on empty board. He builds competition rigs for my oldest son not pre mades, but from scratch. Run his own company. He will argue. My husband started out with pc when they were only made from empty boards and component you soldiered to the boards... and machine language you type into the things to make it do anything. There was once nothing at all like today. Today is a piece of cake in comparison but the stride in what they have done with it is beyond amazing. And what look simple in machine languages and how it has grown and approved is commendable and amazing. Comparing even the last rendition of certain machine language to the newest is a very big step even for people who know machine language and why one who does those things need to keep learning the newest and the best. It why my son goes back every fewyear and refreshes himself - also in even building system everytime the new gets made. It's part of that life for people who care - who really care.

    You use the best language needed for the game you are building. That is what matters.
    Until you've walked a mile in someone else shoes - how can you judge. You read it on the internet so it has to be right? I don't think so. But I have talked to people who walk in those shoes and rarely do they full agree with what they see on the internet. Judge for your self.

    I might ask you the same thing, you have no idea what I have done in past lives. Granted I'm not as coherent as I used to be, for many different reasons which I've been told not to discuss medical problems on the forum. I never said a thing about being able to use Visual C+ in 7 days did I? I said anyone who is bright and most young people of today who have a clear mind can learn Python and how it's used. It was open source and free but I haven't looked at it in years. As I said I messed around with Python many years ago. But my life didn't go in the way of programming but business, so, some people pick up things really fast, some don't. I have no idea what you are capable of and no one has any idea what I was capable of when my head was working on all four cylinders. Businessess also use Python as I said before for data analysis. I've scripted a few games for fun in my day, but nothing I would write home about. As I said in another thread The Sims and how games are built has always been a fascination for me and took me down many roads I had no idea I would ever go. Or really had no interest in but somehow because of the hunger to learn things out side the box, I know a little bit about a lot of things. You seem to take for granted those who played these games never worked on game or ever used any open source software or computer languages or ever understood anything other than how to play games. That is judging others and why those who judge should look in mirrors sometimes. I never went into games, I went into business, when computers were hardly an everyday object in homes, but yes, I had some knowledge of some things I was taught but as I said, I had no interest in that avenue track for my life's work and what I have done in my life has been more than just one thing.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 6,583 Member
    I'm so old I played "Pong" on my black and white TV. This is getting into one of those arguments. (I actually did but never managed to "Learn QBasic in 21 days" - but I still have the book). Please calm down. I'm thinking that there is not such an age gap between you.
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