Thank you for taking the time to humor us. I have a few questions:
Is it technically feasible to make babies real again? I use the word "real" because I cannot think of a better word to describe it right now, I just mean having babies needs be visible, allowing babies and older sims to build some kind of relationship, having babies that are not tied to the crib, etc.
Also, will it be possible for lot sizes to be bigger or are they 50x50 at the maximum because of engine limitations?
Finally, I know one of the gurus mentioned that it is not technically possible to have CASt in the game, but would it be possible to have an external tool where you could re-color and re-texture all the objects and clothing in game, and then upload it to the game?
I can say somewhat unequivocally that it is technically feasible to make babies "real" again, as you describe it. As for prioritization, that is really up to our production team. Babies not being tied to the crib is going to be a sticking-point, though. That decision was made for many reasons, not just time-constraints. We felt dissatisfied with babies in TS3 and were looking for ways to get more good things without having all the crazy complexity. One of the most complicated aspects of babies is that Sims could carry them around - babies aren't just another carryable: they cannot be holstered (Sims can magically disappear items in their hands temporarily to play animations that need the hand) due to believability issues and there end up being a huge number of weird rules about them not being able to be placed in different locations, etc, etc, etc. Carryable babies were such a huge headache on TS3 and we had to ask the question "Is it worth it?" I know everyone wants perfect, realistic babies, but the reality of making games is you often have to make choices because you are working with constraints on all sides. Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. Ultimately, we thought we would rather spend our time making the actual baby interactions fun and interesting and have more time for people like me to spend devoted to our new socialization system and multitasking - it would have occupied my time entirely for many months to build carryable babies. Keep in mind that everything is effectively zero-sum; adding complexity in one place necessitates reducing complexity in another as we don't have infinite resources.
One thing about babies I am displeased with is the fact that your Sims put them back down in-between actions. We have tech to solve this problem and somehow it just didn't end up happening. I would very much hope that we address that problem in the not-too-distant-future.
Guru is only saying they have the tech to free them, aka create new animations so sims could carry them around. He didn't speak of the underlying conflict with the multitasking, and object holstering systems.
Those two things are the reason babies are not "free". Somewhere in that thread he talks about it, and how they could not get the multitasking system to work while carrying an object without holstering the object (disappears like a fork while eating). He said sims would holster their babies to multitask, and instead of working on that they stuck them in cribs to save time.
Either way we have seen 0 improvements, or any kind of content for babies in the game. If they had this tech, they for sure would be utilizing it. To me sounds like they have it, but don't wanna actually do the work because he also said "complexity is our enemy" so they actively look to avoid it as much as possible.
Lastly that quote doesn't necessarily say anything about the game, or it's limitations. It says it's feasible to add additional animations, and even though that quote was said shortly after launch we have yet to see anything like that in the game. Kind of makes the quote useless.
Well what are supposed to do they won't tell us about toddlers for sims, and the patch is coming next week that is Thursday because you know holiday an all I'm not dissing st.paddy day it's just there saying anything so what the point I love toddlers how they going to be added I just don't get it!
and when I look at your pictures I see this great big huge gaping hole where toddlers and babies should be in those group shots I wish I knew how to photoshop so I could visualize for you what I see looking at those pics. Sigh
Please don’t photoshop my pictures. I love my Sim families dearly and treasure every moment those pictures capture. They’re perfect exactly how they are. They don’t need toddlers to make them whole. My families are complete and perfect as their unique selves.
Someday my families will have toddlers and there won’t be a need for you to suggest something so condescending. I can imagine toddlers quite well without your help after all.
Also two of my photos feature babies, so they definitely don’t need to be photoshopped in!
Thanks for your two cents, and I’m sorry my pictures made you sad.
Why so salty?
The idea of someone wanting to alter my pictures of my Sim family and suggesting that they were missing something really got my hackles up. I don’t share too much of my game with people. It’s very personal. They're the family I created and have helped grow and change over many generations. I get that they were just trying to voice their disappointment with their own games, but I just didn't like how they went about it. The suggestion that my family, my game, my stories, had "great big huge gaping holes" in them was really insulting.
Hello @Writin_Reg it has been a very long time. I will put my hand up and admit that I am being "ludicrous". I guess you have far more trust in EA than I do. I do not believe the current dev team capable of producing an acceptable toddler life stage. I do not believe this is the sole reason they will never be added to the game, as I now believe it was a conscious decision to leave out them. The capabilities of the game engine remain open to speculation and, not being the trusting person you are, I do not think that an engine prepared in house is up to the job.
As usual I would love to be proved wrong if only to bring this ceaseless speculation over toddlers to an end.
Finally something we can agree on. It is worrying that the Sim franchise is not being mentioned. I do regard myself as something of an outsider now and would offer the disturbing thought that the game has dropped in status within EA. I personally saw the merger of Maxis with the mobile division as the first sign of TS4 being ported to mobile. I do find that a lot more significant than the continuing lack of toddlers.
I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Thank you for taking the time to humor us. I have a few questions:
Is it technically feasible to make babies real again? I use the word "real" because I cannot think of a better word to describe it right now, I just mean having babies needs be visible, allowing babies and older sims to build some kind of relationship, having babies that are not tied to the crib, etc.
Also, will it be possible for lot sizes to be bigger or are they 50x50 at the maximum because of engine limitations?
Finally, I know one of the gurus mentioned that it is not technically possible to have CASt in the game, but would it be possible to have an external tool where you could re-color and re-texture all the objects and clothing in game, and then upload it to the game?
I can say somewhat unequivocally that it is technically feasible to make babies "real" again, as you describe it. As for prioritization, that is really up to our production team. Babies not being tied to the crib is going to be a sticking-point, though. That decision was made for many reasons, not just time-constraints. We felt dissatisfied with babies in TS3 and were looking for ways to get more good things without having all the crazy complexity. One of the most complicated aspects of babies is that Sims could carry them around - babies aren't just another carryable: they cannot be holstered (Sims can magically disappear items in their hands temporarily to play animations that need the hand) due to believability issues and there end up being a huge number of weird rules about them not being able to be placed in different locations, etc, etc, etc. Carryable babies were such a huge headache on TS3 and we had to ask the question "Is it worth it?" I know everyone wants perfect, realistic babies, but the reality of making games is you often have to make choices because you are working with constraints on all sides. Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. Ultimately, we thought we would rather spend our time making the actual baby interactions fun and interesting and have more time for people like me to spend devoted to our new socialization system and multitasking - it would have occupied my time entirely for many months to build carryable babies. Keep in mind that everything is effectively zero-sum; adding complexity in one place necessitates reducing complexity in another as we don't have infinite resources.
One thing about babies I am displeased with is the fact that your Sims put them back down in-between actions. We have tech to solve this problem and somehow it just didn't end up happening. I would very much hope that we address that problem in the not-too-distant-future.
Guru is only saying they have the tech to free them, aka create new animations so sims could carry them around. He didn't speak of the underlying conflict with the multitasking, and object holstering systems.
Those two things are the reason babies are not "free". Somewhere in that thread he talks about it, and how they could not get the multitasking system to work while carrying an object without holstering the object (disappears like a fork while eating). He said sims would holster their babies to multitask, and instead of working on that they stuck them in cribs to save time.
Either way we have seen 0 improvements, or any kind of content for babies in the game. If they had this tech, they for sure would be utilizing it. To me sounds like they have it, but don't wanna actually do the work because he also said "complexity is our enemy" so they actively look to avoid it as much as possible.
Lastly that quote doesn't necessarily say anything about the game, or it's limitations. It says it's feasible to add additional animations, and even though that quote was said shortly after launch we have yet to see anything like that in the game. Kind of makes the quote useless.
You mean this explanation below where it was also explicitely mentionned it was not technically impossible ?
I agree that when you chain interactions with the baby, the sim shouldn't put it down each time. I think this is a bug. I will take a look at what we can do to fix that.
You are asking how babies differ from other carryable objects. That is a really good question!
If you watch sims carrying non-baby objects, you will notice that there is a standard way in which they hold the object - it is in their hand, and they hold it in front of the body, a little away from their torso. This not entirely natural pose was chosen as a compromise between how people actually hold stuff, and our need to play other animations while the sim is holding the object. It allows the sim to make gestures, bend their body forward and backwards and so on without the object getting in the way, or the other hand going through the object, or the object disappearing inside the sim's body. This generally works well, but there still are animations where we cannot accommodate carrying something (for example if the sim is clapping, we need both hands free). For those animations we make the object temporarily disappear (we call this "holstering" the object).
The baby has several properties that make this standard solution not work well:
For one, we *really*do not want to holster the baby, we believe it would be very distressing and inappropriate to see the little ones pop out of existence and back in constantly. Not holstering means that for every case where we would usually holster an object, we have to create an alternative solution for doing that thing while holding the baby. Regrettably, all the alternatives are problematic. The best solution would be for each incompatible animation to find or create a different animation to play that works with the baby; but this is very time consuming, and not all cases can be fixed that way (holding a baby while eating cake for example). We could make the sim put down the baby, but this is disruptive, as she has to find a spot for the baby, and route there and back. We also can't use this solution too often, otherwise the baby will always end up on the floor after a few sim minutes of being carried. We could also simply disallow certain actions while a sim is carrying a baby - but this can creates strange and often hard to understand limitations on what sims can do, and so it is not really a desirable solution. There really isn't a catch all solution, so each of these cases needs to be dealt with individually in a way that makes sense for it.
The other big difference is the carry pose itself. You can hold a book in one hand at arm's length in front of your body, but holding a baby that way just won't work Babies need to be cradled close to the sim's body. The problem with this is that as soon as the adult sim's torso starts moving, the baby starts clipping with it. If the adult moves a lot, half the baby may disappear inside the adult at times. For the animations that have this problem, we would again either have to change the animation (making it less expressive for all situations), or make the sim put the baby down first, or disallow the interaction.
If you scrutinize the Sims 2 and Sims 3 baby carry poses, you can see the compromises we had to make there to make this work at all - the baby is precariously balanced on the sim's forearm and contact with the adult's body is kept to a minimum. Sims have very strong biceps! In spite of this, you can still find fairly severe clipping issues in both those games with the baby.
Another issue is that the baby is much bigger than the other carryable objects. The only other object that even comes close is the pizza box, and we severely restrict what sims can do while holding that. The reason is simple - the bigger the object a sim is holding, the worse the clipping issues that you run into. Socialization is particularly problematic - sims gesture a lot while talking, and when we did tests with carrying babies while socializing, we saw a lot of hands reaching into the baby or moving though it.
Finally, our normal pick up and put down mechanism doesn't work with the baby - with all other objects, we have the sim do a swiping gesture and the object jumps between their hand and the world. With living creatures, we don't want to do this, we think it would look uncaring and weird for the baby to pop to the floor. This means that we have to implement a whole different way of doing pick ups and put downs, with much more stringent placement and registration rules (and all the odd edge cases and routing issues that come with that).
All of this doesn't mean that it is technically impossible to carry babies, of course. But it is time consuming and difficult to do right. So, in short, having other carryable objects in the game provides a starting point, but it isn't the whole solution by a long shot.
That was long. :-o Hope this answers your question?
Hey Bettyboop - well I base my opinion on the fact that very few of the devs are new to the Sims - so they are well aware of how to do what needs to be done - plus the head now of the Sims 4 itself has been with the game since Sims Unleased and the Sims 4 animators and engineers like Daniel, and many others also have been with the game all along or at least Since Sims 2 was being made - so there is no way they are not competent. It is just based on facts, not an assumption - that's all.
That said - I really did not mean to be insulting - especially to you my friend - and I very well understand the frustration and asking ourselves over and over how they could do this to us intentionally. It is hard to comprehend - as who ever would believe they would ever remove sims stages from an established 10 year history of the game to start with? It is fully just mind boogling to many players who have played the game faithfully for so long and also rather insulting. Believe me I have let anger at the situation overcome any genuine facts more times than I can count simply because I still cannot comprehend them removing a life stage - when if anything over the history of the Sims series players have constantly begged for more life stages - not less. Just about anything else missing from the game can be understood seeing the fact it was a game about little beings called The Sims, living their lives. So naturally it is presumed all Sims stages we enjoyed to date would be intact and in game, as well as hopefully a new stage or two added - if possible.
Believe me - I have been through all the stages of mis-belief, and probably even edging on the fact was even maybe they got rid of the people who did this or that. But when I cleared my head, and thought through all there was to think through - I know the team is more than adequately qualified to actually do the work needed - just as much as I know EA has plenty of in house techs - not even counting ones let go - talented in building game engines. EA is not new at rebuilding, redesigning, game engines. It is just another of those things that when we look for where to place the blame it is easy to blame for everything. I will agree it probably does have differences of previously used game engines other wise there would be no point in having a new one - but the fact remains a toddler is just a life stage of the Sims and no more limited in being added to this game than any other life stage. I could see the argument if it was something not in the game already - but Sims exist in the game - it is just a lot more work to add.
All that said though, I truly did not mean to be disrespectful - seeing I have always respected and liked you. I just know it is very frustrating waiting for an entire life stage that should of been in the basegame and still isn't a year and a half since we got the game. Unlike ep stuff or even stuff pack stuff - a life stage of the namesakes of the game needs to be in the game from the start of the game - especially the second stage of a sims life. It is truly just too hard to understand how this was not seen as a good enough reason to have delayed the game to start with until at least all the base game sims were present and accounted for. I totally get your frustration - I feel the same way - honestly.
Also really great to see you by the way - it's been a long time for sure.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Thank you for taking the time to humor us. I have a few questions:
Is it technically feasible to make babies real again? I use the word "real" because I cannot think of a better word to describe it right now, I just mean having babies needs be visible, allowing babies and older sims to build some kind of relationship, having babies that are not tied to the crib, etc.
Also, will it be possible for lot sizes to be bigger or are they 50x50 at the maximum because of engine limitations?
Finally, I know one of the gurus mentioned that it is not technically possible to have CASt in the game, but would it be possible to have an external tool where you could re-color and re-texture all the objects and clothing in game, and then upload it to the game?
I can say somewhat unequivocally that it is technically feasible to make babies "real" again, as you describe it. As for prioritization, that is really up to our production team. Babies not being tied to the crib is going to be a sticking-point, though. That decision was made for many reasons, not just time-constraints. We felt dissatisfied with babies in TS3 and were looking for ways to get more good things without having all the crazy complexity. One of the most complicated aspects of babies is that Sims could carry them around - babies aren't just another carryable: they cannot be holstered (Sims can magically disappear items in their hands temporarily to play animations that need the hand) due to believability issues and there end up being a huge number of weird rules about them not being able to be placed in different locations, etc, etc, etc. Carryable babies were such a huge headache on TS3 and we had to ask the question "Is it worth it?" I know everyone wants perfect, realistic babies, but the reality of making games is you often have to make choices because you are working with constraints on all sides. Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. Ultimately, we thought we would rather spend our time making the actual baby interactions fun and interesting and have more time for people like me to spend devoted to our new socialization system and multitasking - it would have occupied my time entirely for many months to build carryable babies. Keep in mind that everything is effectively zero-sum; adding complexity in one place necessitates reducing complexity in another as we don't have infinite resources.
One thing about babies I am displeased with is the fact that your Sims put them back down in-between actions. We have tech to solve this problem and somehow it just didn't end up happening. I would very much hope that we address that problem in the not-too-distant-future.
I hope he meant production-wise because if he didn't, that's the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard!
They were dissatisfied with babies in TS3, so they make babies in TS4 even more dissatisfying (read: boring and uninteresting)? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
"Ultimately, we thought we would rather spend our time making the actual baby interactions fun and interesting..."
But they're not "fun and interesting". They're boring as all heck. I get more excitement out of watching my sims play musical chairs.
and when I look at your pictures I see this great big huge gaping hole where toddlers and babies should be in those group shots I wish I knew how to photoshop so I could visualize for you what I see looking at those pics. Sigh
Please don’t photoshop my pictures. I love my Sim families dearly and treasure every moment those pictures capture. They’re perfect exactly how they are. They don’t need toddlers to make them whole. My families are complete and perfect as their unique selves.
Someday my families will have toddlers and there won’t be a need for you to suggest something so condescending. I can imagine toddlers quite well without your help after all.
Also two of my photos feature babies, so they definitely don’t need to be photoshopped in!
Thanks for your two cents, and I’m sorry my pictures made you sad.
and when I look at your pictures I see this great big huge gaping hole where toddlers and babies should be in those group shots I wish I knew how to photoshop so I could visualize for you what I see looking at those pics. Sigh
Please don’t photoshop my pictures. I love my Sim families dearly and treasure every moment those pictures capture. They’re perfect exactly how they are. They don’t need toddlers to make them whole. My families are complete and perfect as their unique selves.
Someday my families will have toddlers and there won’t be a need for you to suggest something so condescending. I can imagine toddlers quite well without your help after all.
Also two of my photos feature babies, so they definitely don’t need to be photoshopped in!
Thanks for your two cents, and I’m sorry my pictures made you sad.
I'm sure @bekkasan didn't mean to be condescending and that's a little bit of a jump there. She was just saying *for her* she misses the toddlers being a central part and wished for a way to illustrate that for you. That wasn't a nasty thing for her to say-she was wishing she could display to you how she felt.
@HeyYoDiscoNick Since I said I couldn't photoshop that should not be an issue. My comment was to let you know exactly what I said and felt in response to the pics and the captions that were just a bit ironic. I did say group shots...not individual ones with the babies. I was not condescending and am shocked that you see that in my comment. Your pictures and all pics from Sim4 make me just a bit sad considering the high hopes I had for the game when I first found out they were working on a Sims4. I'm very happy that you are satisfied with the game. I have lots of friends who play Sims4 and love it, are happy with it and some that want better or more for it, or just what we were promised.
@HeyYoDiscoNick Since I said I couldn't photoshop that should not be an issue. My comment was to let you know exactly what I said and felt in response to the pics and the captions that were just a bit ironic. I did say group shots...not individual ones with the babies. I was not condescending and am shocked that you see that in my comment. Your pictures and all pics from Sim4 make me just a bit sad considering the high hopes I had for the game when I first found out they were working on a Sims4. I'm very happy that you are satisfied with the game. I have lots of friends who play Sims4 and love it, are happy with it and some that want better or more for it, or just what we were promised.
I’m not asking for an explanation or an apology. I understand what you were trying to get at, but the way you said it was really insulting to me.
I don’t think you were wrong to say it. You are free to say whatever you want however you want. That’s how it should be. I’m just telling you how your words made me feel. You shared your feelings about my pictures quite freely, and I’m returning the favor. I want toddlers in my families just as badly as anyone else. I miss them terribly.
I get that you’re disappointed. I get that for you, families aren’t complete without toddlers. I agree that family play needs a lot more attention.
I understand that you can’t photoshop my pictures. It’s the idea that you would if you could; that you would take my Sims and add or subtract someone in my family, or alter them in some way. They all have names and histories. They’re all important to me, and I like them exactly how they are. It’s not your place to change something I made, especially to prove a point that doesn’t need proving. I can imagine toddlers in my family. I don’t need a mock up to do that.
I don’t harbor any ill will against you. Your opinions and feelings are valid and you should feel free to share them. We need to try and remember that words are important, especially in this type of medium. Your words upset me, which is something that is bound to happen from time to time. It is what it is.
@HeyYoDiscoNick Since I said I couldn't photoshop that should not be an issue. My comment was to let you know exactly what I said and felt in response to the pics and the captions that were just a bit ironic. I did say group shots...not individual ones with the babies. I was not condescending and am shocked that you see that in my comment. Your pictures and all pics from Sim4 make me just a bit sad considering the high hopes I had for the game when I first found out they were working on a Sims4. I'm very happy that you are satisfied with the game. I have lots of friends who play Sims4 and love it, are happy with it and some that want better or more for it, or just what we were promised.
I’m not asking for an explanation or an apology. I understand what you were trying to get at, but the way you said it was really insulting to me.
I don’t think you were wrong to say it. You are free to say whatever you want however you want. That’s how it should be. I’m just telling you how your words made me feel. You shared your feelings about my pictures quite freely, and I’m returning the favor. I want toddlers in my families just as badly as anyone else. I miss them terribly.
I get that you’re disappointed. I get that for you, families aren’t complete without toddlers. I agree that family play needs a lot more attention.
I understand that you can’t photoshop my pictures. It’s the idea that you would if you could; that you would take my Sims and add or subtract someone in my family, or alter them in some way. They all have names and histories. They’re all important to me, and I like them exactly how they are. It’s not your place to change something I made, especially to prove a point that doesn’t need proving. I can imagine toddlers in my family. I don’t need a mock up to do that.
I don’t harbor any ill will against you. Your opinions and feelings are valid and you should feel free to share them. We need to try and remember that words are important, especially in this type of medium. Your words upset me, which is something that is bound to happen from time to time. It is what it is.
Happy Simming.
I don't consider any comment from my first post condescending nor insulting and if you took it that way that is for you to feel. You cannot see me or hear me so you put your own interpretation on those words. Even @sparkfairy1 tried to tell you I was not that kind of person and then you tell my I insulted you? By feeling sad that babies and toddlers are not in game to be photographed in the family group shots? The biggest difference in our posts is I didn't call you names! But, I am condescending and insulting...thanks much!
and when I look at your pictures I see this great big huge gaping hole where toddlers and babies should be in those group shots I wish I knew how to photoshop so I could visualize for you what I see looking at those pics. Sigh
Please don’t photoshop my pictures. I love my Sim families dearly and treasure every moment those pictures capture. They’re perfect exactly how they are. They don’t need toddlers to make them whole. My families are complete and perfect as their unique selves.
Someday my families will have toddlers and there won’t be a need for you to suggest something so condescending. I can imagine toddlers quite well without your help after all.
Also two of my photos feature babies, so they definitely don’t need to be photoshopped in!
Thanks for your two cents, and I’m sorry my pictures made you sad.
Why did you showed your pictures of your sims's family in a public forum and then presented them in a sarcastic wording if you didn't wanted opinions that might not agree with yours? Seriously? In my opinion you were the one acting sarcastic and condescending with your pictures to people who truly feel there isn't enough family play. In my opinion those pictures you showed didn't convinced me one bit of the lacking family play I feel every time I attempt to play a family. BTW if your intention was not to come across as sarcastic or condescending, then I guess now you know how bekkasan feels by telling him/her how condescending she/he was when she/he truly wasn't.
I was here long before you @Gabe_oz when people had manners and also understood how these games are put together. I am also entitled to state my own opinion.
It is my opinion that there will be no toddlers in TS4. There are certain things the game engine is not capable of, making the holding, carrying and interacting with babies and toddlers virtually impossible for the current dev team. They have neither the resources or skills to overcome these issues. For virtually the same reason you will never see sun loungers in this game.
You, of course, are free to question to my words but it would be appreciated if you refrained from accusing me of making things up or of wishing to cause trouble for the OP.
Yep. I don't think you will ever see toddlers. This "Sims" game was designed to be played on tablets. Specifically aimed at a young audience. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party...Ya get my drift? No family game play. No story progression. Story progression (and that includes toddlers) would require an attention span longer than 2 minutes. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up...oops I forgot: work, GET TOGETHER, text, get up...Pure fluff. The single most shallow (Lord forgive me) "Sims" game ever. I feel nauseous.
Thank goodness for simmers with a sense of humour
This is another good reason why we will not see toddlers in this game. Get up, feed baby, work, party, sleep. Doesn't work. Pity
This endless speculation, although a fantastic sign of loyalty and engagement, is worrying and to me unhealthy. For some it is clearly an obsession. Most of us wanted toddlers but come to accept it is not going to happen. Those that continue to think they will be added to EPs or in upgrades are setting themselves up for further disappointment and frustration.
I am delighted to hear about sun loungers and not at all surprised to hear it was Modders.
@Gabe_oz I will not be dictated to by you. I am entitled to my opinion. At a time when there is nothing but silence from EA then what little is known is subject to interpretation. If I choose to believe in my current interpretation, on the likelihood of toddlers and to want to share it, then I will.
I have doubts that they'll ever make toddlers for this game too, and I also gave up the idea that we'll get them after the second EP was announced. And I also thought @inmyeye's summary of the game was hilarious and a little more accurate than I wished it was.
But, I do object to other simmers calling those who are still here asking for toddlers or those who wholeheartedly believe that they will be added 'unhealthily obsessed'. Maybe you feel it's unhealthy for you, and that's why you gave up on them; it's fine to state that and explain why or just state your opinion or whatever you choose to do. But I and many others don't feel as if we're obsessed in an unhealthy way and I really dislike these kinds of accusations from other Simmers. Just like Simmers are free to reach their own conclusions about whether EA misled the fans or whether they will add toddlers or not, we're all entitled to our opinions, but we are not entitled to insist that others adopt our opinions. Make your case, sure, and people will decide for themselves. You can't coerce people into believing the same things you do.
And this goes for any number of people in this thread who have been busy attempting to shove their own opinions down the throat of others.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I was here long before you @Gabe_oz when people had manners and also understood how these games are put together. I am also entitled to state my own opinion.
It is my opinion that there will be no toddlers in TS4. There are certain things the game engine is not capable of, making the holding, carrying and interacting with babies and toddlers virtually impossible for the current dev team. They have neither the resources or skills to overcome these issues. For virtually the same reason you will never see sun loungers in this game.
You, of course, are free to question to my words but it would be appreciated if you refrained from accusing me of making things up or of wishing to cause trouble for the OP.
Yep. I don't think you will ever see toddlers. This "Sims" game was designed to be played on tablets. Specifically aimed at a young audience. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party...Ya get my drift? No family game play. No story progression. Story progression (and that includes toddlers) would require an attention span longer than 2 minutes. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up...oops I forgot: work, GET TOGETHER, text, get up...Pure fluff. The single most shallow (Lord forgive me) "Sims" game ever. I feel nauseous.
Thank goodness for simmers with a sense of humour
This is another good reason why we will not see toddlers in this game. Get up, feed baby, work, party, sleep. Doesn't work. Pity
This endless speculation, although a fantastic sign of loyalty and engagement, is worrying and to me unhealthy. For some it is clearly an obsession. Most of us wanted toddlers but come to accept it is not going to happen. Those that continue to think they will be added to EPs or in upgrades are setting themselves up for further disappointment and frustration.
I am delighted to hear about sun loungers and not at all surprised to hear it was Modders.
@Gabe_oz I will not be dictated to by you. I am entitled to my opinion. At a time when there is nothing but silence from EA then what little is known is subject to interpretation. If I choose to believe in my current interpretation, on the likelihood of toddlers and to want to share it, then I will.
I have doubts that they'll ever make toddlers for this game too, and I also gave up the idea that we'll get them after the second EP was announced. And I also thought @inmyeye's summary of the game was hilarious and a little more accurate than I wished it was.
But, I do object to other simmers calling those who are still here asking for toddlers or those who wholeheartedly believe that they will be added 'unhealthily obsessed'. Maybe you feel it's unhealthy for you, and that's why you gave up on them; it's fine to state that and explain why or just state your opinion or whatever you choose to do. But I and many others don't feel as if we're obsessed in an unhealthy way and I really dislike these kinds of accusations from other Simmers. Just like Simmers are free to reach their own conclusions about whether EA misled the fans or whether they will add toddlers or not, we're all entitled to our opinions, but we are not entitled to insist that others adopt our opinions. Make your case, sure, and people will decide for themselves. You can't coerce people into believing the same things you do.
And this goes for any number of people in this thread who have been busy attempting to shove their own opinions down the throat of others.
I myself avoid using the term 'obsessed'
Instead I choose the term 'passionately troubled by the lack of'
If anyone thinks of any other terms, please let me know.
And no, I am not trying to start a ruckus, that would make a me a obstreperous antagonist
I don't think it's either troubled, nor obsessed. I feel like it's a loyalty thing. Maybe I'm way out there, but I think it's more akin to working for a company and giving it your best for several years only to be told one day, "you're no longer important. Here's your last check. See you. Bye, bye now:"
It's kind of like a slap in the face. All those years of loyalty you put into something you believed in is now suddenly telling you that you were never equally important. I think it's normal human behaviour to feel stung by it. The difference is others heal faster than others. It's not really a matter of 'getting over it.'
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
I don't think it's either troubled, nor obsessed. I feel like it's a loyalty thing. Maybe I'm way out there, but I think it's more akin to working for a company and giving it your best for several years only to be told one day, "you're no longer important. Here's your last check. See you. Bye, bye now:"
It's kind of like a slap in the face. All those years of loyalty you put into something you believed in is now suddenly telling you that you were never equally important. I think it's normal human behaviour to feel stung by it. The difference is others heal faster than others. It's not really a matter of 'getting over it.'
I am a loyal player also but I don't feel any slaps in the face. I just see that the devs are doing something this time round. It might not be the best thing but still, what's done is done, TS4 came out the year before last and that is the end of it. New EPs will come out and players will come and go.
As for me I am still waiting on my old PC to come back so I can install Origin and then I will do my review.
I am a loyal player also but I don't feel any slaps in the face. I just see that the devs are doing something this time round. It might not be the best thing but still, what's done is done, TS4 came out the year before last and that is the end of it. New EPs will come out and players will come and go.
As for me I am still waiting on my old PC to come back so I can install Origin and then I will do my review.
As for The Sims 5, it is getting closer each day
Meh. I can't get excited about something I know nothing about. For all I know it could be worse or never come to fruition. Waiting for S5 is no different than waiting for toddlers, IMO. I can only believe something once I've seen it.
I look forward to your review, by the way. I firmly believe one must try something in order to criticize it properly. You may wind up finding you like it, or not, and I admit I'm curious to see what you think of it. It does have some good aspects to it. It just isn't going in a direction I care for.
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
Yep. I don't think you will ever see toddlers. This "Sims" game was designed to be played on tablets. Specifically aimed at a young audience. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party...Ya get my drift? No family game play. No story progression. Story progression (and that includes toddlers) would require an attention span longer than 2 minutes. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up...oops I forgot: work, GET TOGETHER, text, get up...Pure fluff. The single most shallow (Lord forgive me) "Sims" game ever. I feel nauseous.
This photo, what animation is the Sim on the right doing, because I have never seen that once in my gameplay, and I want to know what triggers it, besides obviously being sad.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
@king_of_simcity7 I don't know why it's appropriate to label other players at all. Everyone should just go about their own business. Feel free to share opinions on the game or ask for wanted content any time they wish to do so, but no one should be allowed to discuss opinions or make judgements about other forum members, their opinions, or their requests. At least not unless they are purposely posting flame bait material.
So how about you stop discussing players who want toddlers altogether? Then you won't have a need to slap a label on them.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
@king_of_simcity7 I don't know why it's appropriate to label other players at all. Everyone should just go about their own business. Feel free to share opinions on the game or ask for wanted content any time they wish to do so, but no one should be allowed to discuss opinions or make judgements about other forum members, their opinions, or their requests. At least not unless they are purposely posting flame bait material.
So how about you stop discussing players who want toddlers altogether? Then you won't have a need to slap a label on them.
Yep. I don't think you will ever see toddlers. This "Sims" game was designed to be played on tablets. Specifically aimed at a young audience. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party, get up, work, party...Ya get my drift? No family game play. No story progression. Story progression (and that includes toddlers) would require an attention span longer than 2 minutes. Work, party, get up, work, party, get up...oops I forgot: work, GET TOGETHER, text, get up...Pure fluff. The single most shallow (Lord forgive me) "Sims" game ever. I feel nauseous.
OMG! You're so right!
I get so sick of all these parties I'm having
There is no family game play at all!
As a family player, there is just nothing for me to do!
ONLY PARTIES, UGH IT'S THE WORST!!!
It's so shallow and gross!
How could there ever be toddlers when there is literally 0% family play ever in the whole game?!?!
Your pictures aren't representing anything for me. I mean the stuff you showed is in fact family play, but it's a pretty basic one, basic animations and basic content. I know for a fact that your sim won't be able to carry that baby around, cause the baby is just an object. What you show looks pretty, but at the end of the day the gameplay is still pretty mediocre and half baked.
Also that baby will jump out of that bassinet and become a child and to me that ruins immersion.
I also have families. Do I have the ability to create a family? Kind of. The game won't recognize uncles and step parents though which also affects family play.
The family play is limited to parents and child. Period. Grandpas? Kind of, unless culling gets to them.
Thank you for taking the time to humor us. I have a few questions:
Is it technically feasible to make babies real again? I use the word "real" because I cannot think of a better word to describe it right now, I just mean having babies needs be visible, allowing babies and older sims to build some kind of relationship, having babies that are not tied to the crib, etc.
Also, will it be possible for lot sizes to be bigger or are they 50x50 at the maximum because of engine limitations?
Finally, I know one of the gurus mentioned that it is not technically possible to have CASt in the game, but would it be possible to have an external tool where you could re-color and re-texture all the objects and clothing in game, and then upload it to the game?
I can say somewhat unequivocally that it is technically feasible to make babies "real" again, as you describe it. As for prioritization, that is really up to our production team. Babies not being tied to the crib is going to be a sticking-point, though. That decision was made for many reasons, not just time-constraints. We felt dissatisfied with babies in TS3 and were looking for ways to get more good things without having all the crazy complexity. One of the most complicated aspects of babies is that Sims could carry them around - babies aren't just another carryable: they cannot be holstered (Sims can magically disappear items in their hands temporarily to play animations that need the hand) due to believability issues and there end up being a huge number of weird rules about them not being able to be placed in different locations, etc, etc, etc. Carryable babies were such a huge headache on TS3 and we had to ask the question "Is it worth it?" I know everyone wants perfect, realistic babies, but the reality of making games is you often have to make choices because you are working with constraints on all sides. Complexity is our enemy when building The Sims, so we look for any opportunity to keep it down. Ultimately, we thought we would rather spend our time making the actual baby interactions fun and interesting and have more time for people like me to spend devoted to our new socialization system and multitasking - it would have occupied my time entirely for many months to build carryable babies. Keep in mind that everything is effectively zero-sum; adding complexity in one place necessitates reducing complexity in another as we don't have infinite resources.
One thing about babies I am displeased with is the fact that your Sims put them back down in-between actions. We have tech to solve this problem and somehow it just didn't end up happening. I would very much hope that we address that problem in the not-too-distant-future.
This is exaclt what worries me. Clearly babies and toddlers are important and i don't who gave the gurus the idea of us hating or not caring about this life stages. The babies in TS4 are even more dissapointing than the babies in TS3, but yeah good thing they were dissatified with them, they were not something to be proud of. In TS2 however, babies and toddlers were awesome. Where has most of that team gone to? Those actually cared about the franchise.
Babies like in sims free play would be good. If a free game can have them to be interacted with and moved from a crib, I don't see why TS4 can't.
As much as toddlers would be fun, I am doubtful at this stage they will make an appearance.
Comments
Guru is only saying they have the tech to free them, aka create new animations so sims could carry them around. He didn't speak of the underlying conflict with the multitasking, and object holstering systems.
Those two things are the reason babies are not "free". Somewhere in that thread he talks about it, and how they could not get the multitasking system to work while carrying an object without holstering the object (disappears like a fork while eating). He said sims would holster their babies to multitask, and instead of working on that they stuck them in cribs to save time.
Either way we have seen 0 improvements, or any kind of content for babies in the game. If they had this tech, they for sure would be utilizing it. To me sounds like they have it, but don't wanna actually do the work because he also said "complexity is our enemy" so they actively look to avoid it as much as possible.
Lastly that quote doesn't necessarily say anything about the game, or it's limitations. It says it's feasible to add additional animations, and even though that quote was said shortly after launch we have yet to see anything like that in the game. Kind of makes the quote useless.
The idea of someone wanting to alter my pictures of my Sim family and suggesting that they were missing something really got my hackles up. I don’t share too much of my game with people. It’s very personal. They're the family I created and have helped grow and change over many generations. I get that they were just trying to voice their disappointment with their own games, but I just didn't like how they went about it. The suggestion that my family, my game, my stories, had "great big huge gaping holes" in them was really insulting.
As usual I would love to be proved wrong if only to bring this ceaseless speculation over toddlers to an end.
Finally something we can agree on. It is worrying that the Sim franchise is not being mentioned. I do regard myself as something of an outsider now and would offer the disturbing thought that the game has dropped in status within EA. I personally saw the merger of Maxis with the mobile division as the first sign of TS4 being ported to mobile. I do find that a lot more significant than the continuing lack of toddlers.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
You mean this explanation below where it was also explicitely mentionned it was not technically impossible ?
That said - I really did not mean to be insulting - especially to you my friend - and I very well understand the frustration and asking ourselves over and over how they could do this to us intentionally. It is hard to comprehend - as who ever would believe they would ever remove sims stages from an established 10 year history of the game to start with? It is fully just mind boogling to many players who have played the game faithfully for so long and also rather insulting. Believe me I have let anger at the situation overcome any genuine facts more times than I can count simply because I still cannot comprehend them removing a life stage - when if anything over the history of the Sims series players have constantly begged for more life stages - not less. Just about anything else missing from the game can be understood seeing the fact it was a game about little beings called The Sims, living their lives. So naturally it is presumed all Sims stages we enjoyed to date would be intact and in game, as well as hopefully a new stage or two added - if possible.
Believe me - I have been through all the stages of mis-belief, and probably even edging on the fact was even maybe they got rid of the people who did this or that. But when I cleared my head, and thought through all there was to think through - I know the team is more than adequately qualified to actually do the work needed - just as much as I know EA has plenty of in house techs - not even counting ones let go - talented in building game engines. EA is not new at rebuilding, redesigning, game engines. It is just another of those things that when we look for where to place the blame it is easy to blame for everything. I will agree it probably does have differences of previously used game engines other wise there would be no point in having a new one - but the fact remains a toddler is just a life stage of the Sims and no more limited in being added to this game than any other life stage. I could see the argument if it was something not in the game already - but Sims exist in the game - it is just a lot more work to add.
All that said though, I truly did not mean to be disrespectful - seeing I have always respected and liked you. I just know it is very frustrating waiting for an entire life stage that should of been in the basegame and still isn't a year and a half since we got the game. Unlike ep stuff or even stuff pack stuff - a life stage of the namesakes of the game needs to be in the game from the start of the game - especially the second stage of a sims life. It is truly just too hard to understand how this was not seen as a good enough reason to have delayed the game to start with until at least all the base game sims were present and accounted for. I totally get your frustration - I feel the same way - honestly.
Also really great to see you by the way - it's been a long time for sure.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
They were dissatisfied with babies in TS3, so they make babies in TS4 even more dissatisfying (read: boring and uninteresting)? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
"Ultimately, we thought we would rather spend our time making the actual baby interactions fun and interesting..."
But they're not "fun and interesting". They're boring as all heck. I get more excitement out of watching my sims play musical chairs.
Thanks for your support @sparkfairy1.
@HeyYoDiscoNick Since I said I couldn't photoshop that should not be an issue. My comment was to let you know exactly what I said and felt in response to the pics and the captions that were just a bit ironic. I did say group shots...not individual ones with the babies. I was not condescending and am shocked that you see that in my comment.
The Cowboy and the Mermaid
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I’m not asking for an explanation or an apology. I understand what you were trying to get at, but the way you said it was really insulting to me.
I don’t think you were wrong to say it. You are free to say whatever you want however you want. That’s how it should be. I’m just telling you how your words made me feel. You shared your feelings about my pictures quite freely, and I’m returning the favor. I want toddlers in my families just as badly as anyone else. I miss them terribly.
I get that you’re disappointed. I get that for you, families aren’t complete without toddlers. I agree that family play needs a lot more attention.
I understand that you can’t photoshop my pictures. It’s the idea that you would if you could; that you would take my Sims and add or subtract someone in my family, or alter them in some way. They all have names and histories. They’re all important to me, and I like them exactly how they are. It’s not your place to change something I made, especially to prove a point that doesn’t need proving. I can imagine toddlers in my family. I don’t need a mock up to do that.
I don’t harbor any ill will against you. Your opinions and feelings are valid and you should feel free to share them. We need to try and remember that words are important, especially in this type of medium. Your words upset me, which is something that is bound to happen from time to time. It is what it is.
Happy Simming.
I don't consider any comment from my first post condescending nor insulting and if you took it that way that is for you to feel. You cannot see me or hear me so you put your own interpretation on those words. Even @sparkfairy1 tried to tell you I was not that kind of person and then you tell my I insulted you? By feeling sad that babies and toddlers are not in game to be photographed in the family group shots? The biggest difference in our posts is I didn't call you names! But, I am condescending and insulting...thanks much!
The Cowboy and the Mermaid
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Nods......I'm out of here. Thanks! :::hugs:::
The Cowboy and the Mermaid
I have doubts that they'll ever make toddlers for this game too, and I also gave up the idea that we'll get them after the second EP was announced. And I also thought @inmyeye's summary of the game was hilarious and a little more accurate than I wished it was.
But, I do object to other simmers calling those who are still here asking for toddlers or those who wholeheartedly believe that they will be added 'unhealthily obsessed'. Maybe you feel it's unhealthy for you, and that's why you gave up on them; it's fine to state that and explain why or just state your opinion or whatever you choose to do. But I and many others don't feel as if we're obsessed in an unhealthy way and I really dislike these kinds of accusations from other Simmers. Just like Simmers are free to reach their own conclusions about whether EA misled the fans or whether they will add toddlers or not, we're all entitled to our opinions, but we are not entitled to insist that others adopt our opinions. Make your case, sure, and people will decide for themselves. You can't coerce people into believing the same things you do.
And this goes for any number of people in this thread who have been busy attempting to shove their own opinions down the throat of others.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I myself avoid using the term 'obsessed'
Instead I choose the term 'passionately troubled by the lack of'
If anyone thinks of any other terms, please let me know.
And no, I am not trying to start a ruckus, that would make a me a obstreperous antagonist
It's kind of like a slap in the face. All those years of loyalty you put into something you believed in is now suddenly telling you that you were never equally important. I think it's normal human behaviour to feel stung by it. The difference is others heal faster than others. It's not really a matter of 'getting over it.'
I am a loyal player also but I don't feel any slaps in the face. I just see that the devs are doing something this time round. It might not be the best thing but still, what's done is done, TS4 came out the year before last and that is the end of it. New EPs will come out and players will come and go.
As for me I am still waiting on my old PC to come back so I can install Origin and then I will do my review.
As for The Sims 5, it is getting closer each day
Meh. I can't get excited about something I know nothing about. For all I know it could be worse or never come to fruition. Waiting for S5 is no different than waiting for toddlers, IMO. I can only believe something once I've seen it.
I look forward to your review, by the way. I firmly believe one must try something in order to criticize it properly. You may wind up finding you like it, or not, and I admit I'm curious to see what you think of it. It does have some good aspects to it. It just isn't going in a direction I care for.
This photo, what animation is the Sim on the right doing, because I have never seen that once in my gameplay, and I want to know what triggers it, besides obviously being sad.
So how about you stop discussing players who want toddlers altogether? Then you won't have a need to slap a label on them.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Amen.... and thank you.
Your pictures aren't representing anything for me. I mean the stuff you showed is in fact family play, but it's a pretty basic one, basic animations and basic content. I know for a fact that your sim won't be able to carry that baby around, cause the baby is just an object. What you show looks pretty, but at the end of the day the gameplay is still pretty mediocre and half baked.
Also that baby will jump out of that bassinet and become a child and to me that ruins immersion.
I also have families. Do I have the ability to create a family? Kind of. The game won't recognize uncles and step parents though which also affects family play.
The family play is limited to parents and child. Period. Grandpas? Kind of, unless culling gets to them.
This is exaclt what worries me. Clearly babies and toddlers are important and i don't who gave the gurus the idea of us hating or not caring about this life stages. The babies in TS4 are even more dissapointing than the babies in TS3, but yeah good thing they were dissatified with them, they were not something to be proud of. In TS2 however, babies and toddlers were awesome. Where has most of that team gone to? Those actually cared about the franchise.
As much as toddlers would be fun, I am doubtful at this stage they will make an appearance.