The responses to this makes me feel really sad; so many people feeling genuinely attacked by it, somehow.
Even using words like "cringe" and other dismissive language to show disrespect.
Just like many did when the gender options appeared, or when trans and genderqueer premades appeared (the fact that so many "nice simmers" spend hours "remake" the trans premades is really sad to me and shows an immense lack of understanding and respect.
People are free to do whatever they wish in their games as they purchased it with their own money. Premades are there to be customized to the Simmer's liking and judging someone for doing that is low and tiny. Earlier, someone mentioned knowing a person who wants their Sims to be exclusively gay. I'm not gay at all and I thought nothing of it. That's his game and he can do whatever he likes in it. He's gay, of course he wants to create Sims that are like him and he's more than free to do that. Why is turning, say, transgender Sims into something else "lacking understanding and respect" when I've seen nothing on turning straight Sims gay?
I once turned a male Sim female. I must hate men, right? No. Because it's a game and games aren't really supposed to be taken seriously. Especially one as wacky as this.
Respect is a two-way street. I'm fine with the addition of this feature if others want it, but I am not fine if it's as invasive as some of us fear it to be. I'm not going to be angry or upset about this feature as that's rather knee-jerk, but I'm definitely concerned. I would hope that's fair.
EDIT: huh, guess that's censored. It would be hasty to be upset about this feature is what I mean.
EDIT 2: lol just noticed they were banned. never mind then
The responses to this makes me feel really sad; so many people feeling genuinely attacked by it, somehow.
Even using words like "cringe" and other dismissive language to show disrespect.
Just like many did when the gender options appeared, or when trans and genderqueer premades appeared (the fact that so many "nice simmers" spend hours "remake" the trans premades is really sad to me and shows an immense lack of understanding and respect.
People are free to do whatever they wish in their games as they purchased it with their own money. Premades are there to be customized to the Simmer's liking and judging someone for doing that is low and tiny. Earlier, someone mentioned knowing a person who wants their Sims to be exclusively gay. I'm not gay at all and I thought nothing of it. That's his game and he can do whatever he likes in it. He's gay, of course he wants to create Sims that are like him and he's more than free to do that. Why is turning, say, transgender Sims into something else "lacking understanding and respect" when I've seen nothing on turning straight Sims gay?
I once turned a male Sim female. I must hate men, right? No. Because it's a game and games aren't really supposed to be taken seriously. Especially one as wacky as this.
Respect is a two-way street. I'm fine with the addition of this feature if others want it, but I am not fine if it's as invasive as some of us fear it to be. I'm not going to be angry or upset about this feature as that's rather knee-🐲🐲🐲🐲, but I'm definitely concerned. I would hope that's fair.
EDIT: huh, guess that's censored. It would be hasty to be upset about this feature is what I mean.
I 100% agree with your comment, it is our game and we should play it as we wish, its not being judgemental in real life if we wanted to change things up and we shouldn't be made to feel bad for how we play, I personally wouldn't create a sim that doesn't identify themselves as a gender, does that really show my character ? outside the game, does that make me a bad person?, no it doesn't, I don't care what someones sexually, gender/non gender, religion, nationally is if the person is nice to me, I'm nice to them, I won't create a non gender sim because I want all my sims to identify themselves as a gender, that's all there is to it
This just changes how the player read the text notifications. What about the gameplay. How about a sim going to the hospital to get gender reassignment surgery and they should be able to bring a friend for support.
I use the LGBT mod to experience coming out. Through gameplay.
I meant of course, that not everyone feels the need to display their pronouns. If this is something that people want to do, it is fine by me. But that does not mean everyone has to participate!
Oh, I do hope you're right about that. I really hate the term sis gender.
I accept and welcome the pronouns concept/idea, but the pronouns in the live mode pop-up over the head would make it look a bit cluttered/wordy, or kind of awkward in placement. I would think it would be better placed within the sims sim-personality tab menu thingie or whatever….?
Not sure if townies would have this as well? Could there be a toggle for this, perhaps?
I meant of course, that not everyone feels the need to display their pronouns. If this is something that people want to do, it is fine by me. But that does not mean everyone has to participate!
Oh, I do hope you're right about that. I really hate the term sis gender.
I think this is a great option for people who want to make sims who feel a bit more customizable. I personally love including sims of varying sexual orientations and gender identities in my game because it makes my world just feel such much more fleshed out and diverse.
What good is it to be represented in a game that is being neglected?
What I'd like to see is not less representation, but more balance between representation and other priorities. More balance between CAS and BB, Live Mode, world-building.
This. I bought the game to play it not to be represented in it. The past couple of years the focus was mainly on self representation as if this was some avatar based virtual reality chat. Just add the option for gender reassignment in the game and with a change of pronouns and some social interactions and be done with it. I want to play the game not be stuck in CAS selecting personality details for my sims.
That might be how you feel, but others feel different. This is a good thing.
Wanting a $1000 game to have good gameplay and be worth the investment in DLC is also a good thing.
They do not have to be mutually exclusive.
Of course it should have good gameplay. I'm not sure I get your point. Maybe it's because I'm way too tired. Off to bed 😆
I just read a tweet reply from Russkii that said “It would be optional yes. You can interact with or not.” If that’s the case, then why doesn’t the company just officially say that to everyone and put an end to angry debates happening across media sites? I don’t understand why not. A few months ago I was browsing the gallery for Maxis Sims and I found so many hateful comments on a trans Sim in the gallery. Someone replied that he was a trans teen and all the hateful comments were making him want to kill himself.
The way the company is handling the update, with vague, unconfirmed details, is generating hostile attention to a small minority that has a very high rate of depression and suicide and that experiences a lot of harassment and bullying. More then 65% of trans teens experience suicidal thoughts and they have a suicide rate twice as high as other lgbtq minorities. As a teen this game gave me so much joy and happiness and that comment really broke my heart. Please confirm officially if it is going to be optional or not to end backlash and incitement of bullying or harassment of trans teen players online. It's not everywhere there is forum moderators like here and teens get bullied usually on their own accounts.
The company has always pushed boundaries and tried to be inclusive, it's part of their company history and it's really cool to be part of that as a player, but they have also listened to feedback and made changes for us and I'm sure even though they want to push boundaries, I highly doubt they want to push their majority core players so far out of their comfort zone that they don't feel like playing anymore. They have never done that in the past. For example, all the men's skirts created recently was in an optional kit and even included some standard pieces like the denim suit, trousers and plain shoes for everyone to enjoy. Most important thing is just to voice your opinion of what you would like or not like and how it might impact your gameplay.
If you choose to use it, I hope they will not make it highly visible in the gameplay, like as depicted in the screenshots showing floating above their heads, because in reality, even though you may share your pronouns for communication purposes, doesn't mean they are permanently floating above your head. I didn't see the gurus' pronouns written across their foreheads during the livestream. It would make more sense if it was in the Sim Profile like where the marital status, traits are.
As for where it is located in CAS, I don't mind at all how they set it up in CAS, but I know many players are sensitive to CAS. There are so many mods even adjusting the lighting, adding backdrops, dressers and mirrors, etc. Also language and names are very important to one’s identity, whereas pronouns are kind of new, we can't add our ethnicity, race, nationality, religion, or sexuality beside the name and pronouns to me seem more about communication then identity, so maybe they should consider the feedback and move it to the side so as it's less upsetting for people who can't add other identification, feel confronted by it, or just think it's cluttered there at the top. I don't mind personally, because CAS is just where everything is to customize my Sim, it doesn't really matter how it looks to me, but I do have the mod that adds 4 columns in the clothing menu, so I really hope it won't break that one. This is a popular mod, so if it does impact it, then I hope they will update the columns for the game themselves. I would prefer not to use a mod to get more CAS columns.
I would also like a T-Shirt with the He/Him, She/Her, They/Them pronouns on the T-Shirt because I think that would be cool. They have similarly made rainbow pride T-Shirts. Mostly I would like some art paintings by a Trans artist with the update. I like to play the Heckings and enjoy having the Pride art objects to decorate their house with. I also love Paka'a Uha and always add him in a house in Sulani. Some new cool art objects and paintings from a Trans artist would be nice to decorate Paka'a’s home especially island type objects because most of the trans premades live in Sulani.
I hope this isn't constantly visible in live mode. I don't mind it in CAS and am happy for those who need it. In livemode it could be a question just like you can ask a sim for their career and then have it displayed in a pop up and in the sim profile.
Is there anything said about whether or not these pronouns are available for random created Sims? If the game generates new townies not everyone wants or needs townies to use they/them. I hope this can be set in the options so everyone can choose for themselves. Personally I prefer to play with sims with the traditional male and female gender so I hope that is still possible. I don't want to take away the option for non binary townies for those who need this. I just want it to be optional.
Everything looks good so far! The "custom" option was a nice surprise and will be good for those who have specific neo pronoun preferences.
I imagine generated townies will either be strictly binary-only options (she/her or he/him) or (and hopefully) be percentage or RNG based and it's just randomized people.
Now I see that more people have noticed that trend. EA try to make the game more inclusive because the customers want to receive this, so our sims are more and more neutral and customizable. In another hand to not offend anyone, TS4 has no sexual orientation, all of the interactions are safe and neutral etc. Due to that the same part of community tell that TS4 is boring and has no drama or gameplay. Sorry but TS1-TS3 was more restricted and less inclusive and a lot of people tell that those games were better than TS4. Do you remember the drama on twitter when dazed sims could have a children even if they don't like them? I totally don't understand one thing. People expect from TS4 to be a safe space but they also expect more jucy gameplay. If EA wants to implement something more spicy, then the same people complains and making dramas. In general I support the inclusivity but I also want to have deeper gampelay. I want to add my sims sexual orientation, chemistry, preferences ect. It means that I want to give my sims the part of character which they can not get right now to not offend anyone. Let's be honest. Every of us has own preferences, even if you are in the minority. This update will be an interesting step forward, but you will see that a week after that the community will complain about the boring gameplay and sims with their fish personality.
I don't play TS4 anymore bc I am old-fashioned and would like to play a satirical life simulator, not a safe space twitter simulator, and that makes me not welcome as an EA customer anymore.
I just pop up for some news (and mostly lols tbh) and yet there is something I don't get here: why must the sim's pronounce be visible in the live mode? So other sims can address them accordingly?
But they won't though, they'll use the same old sul-sul-mu-mu or whatever, so what's the point?
I wonder what they mean by saying that it’s optional. Is it a toggle, or do all Sims have displayed pronouns and you have the option to change the pronouns? Either way, I’m personally excited. I’ve wanted the option for they/them pronouns for years.
I once turned a male Sim female. I must hate men, right? No. Because it's a game and games aren't really supposed to be taken seriously. Especially one as wacky as this.
OMG are you SERIOUS?! Why couldn’t you just create a new FEMALE sim?? I know you say you’re not, but you’re a man hater. Just like everybody else in the world. Plus you just ruined my game.
Now I see that more people have noticed that trend. EA try to make the game more inclusive because the customers want to receive this, so our sims are more and more neutral and customizable. In another hand to not offend anyone, TS4 has no sexual orientation, all of the interactions are safe and neutral etc. Due to that the same part of community tell that TS4 is boring and has no drama or gameplay. Sorry but TS1-TS3 was more restricted and less inclusive and a lot of people tell that those games were better than TS4. Do you remember the drama on twitter when dazed sims could have a children even if they don't like them? I totally don't understand one thing. People expect from TS4 to be a safe space but they also expect more jucy gameplay. If EA wants to implement something more spicy, then the same people complains and making dramas. In general I support the inclusivity but I also want to have deeper gampelay. I want to add my sims sexual orientation, chemistry, preferences ect. It means that I want to give my sims the part of character which they can not get right now to not offend anyone. Let's be honest. Every of us has own preferences, even if you are in the minority. This update will be an interesting step forward, but you will see that a week after that the community will complain about the boring gameplay and sims with their fish personality.
The dazed sim drama was started by a simmer that is part of the tiny community this pronouns update caters too. They‘re on a mission to make this game as bland as possible.
I just don‘t understand why it‘s only this particular real life issue that made it so prominent into the game. Why do we stop at pronouns? Why doesn’t the top left corner of Create-a-Sim say „HELLO, MY NAME AND PRONOUNS AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND DISABILITY AND RELIGION AND ETHNICITY AND NATIONALITY AND RACE AND RACIAL IDENTITY* ARE“? Same with the little box that‘s floating over a sim‘s head.
Can somebody explain this to me? It almost feels like it‘s not a social justice issue but a trend that Sims team quickly jumps on before it becomes uncool again.
* for the Rachel Dolezal and Oli Londons out there
I just don‘t understand why it‘s only this particular real life issue that made it so prominent into the game. Why do we stop at pronouns? Why doesn’t the top left corner of Create-a-Sim say „HELLO, MY NAME AND PRONOUNS AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND DISABILITY AND RELIGION AND ETHNICITY AND NATIONALITY AND RACE AND RACIAL IDENTITY* ARE“? Same with the little box that‘s floating over a sim‘s head.
Good question. If we are talking about inclusivity and representation so much, then why not go all the way? Why stop at one issue? I'd be interested in some genuine answers to dearie_blossom's question.
The difference with pronouns are that people use them constantly to refer to people. If you were talking about me to someone else, you wouldn't need to mention my race, religion, etc., but you'd almost certainly make some use of she, he or they, so it could be useful to you to know that information.
But our sims don't use any pronouns between them. The pronouns are just for players notifications. Simlish is the most neutral and inclusive language because it doesn't exist.
Anyway I miss the times when the sims series was just a game.
The difference with pronouns are that people use them constantly to refer to people. If you were talking about me to someone else, you wouldn't need to mention my race, religion, etc., but you'd almost certainly make some use of she, he or they, so it could be useful to you to know that information.
I wonder how we‘ve survived for millions of years without this movement. Also why do I or my sims need to know that the little pixel alien doing pushups in the retail store next to the paparazzi harassing some pixelated celebrity prefers fae/faer/faerself? It‘s my game and I‘m going to refer to them as I want. Do they expect us to check the tooltip of every single townie so that we don‘t accidentally ‘misgender‘ them?
Can somebody explain this to me? It almost feels like it‘s not a social justice issue but a trend that Sims team quickly jumps on before it becomes uncool again.
So called Justice for the Black and Asian and the LGTBQ+ community is trending right now.
I find it very sad that all this has to be “trending” for people to get some kind of recognition.
“Oh, Twitter just tweeted that I actually have to treat Asians and trans and black people as people! I didn’t realize!!! I better tell the world how much I care and treat them as real actual humans! Oh here’s my minute of silence. Oh and here’s a selfie of me and a…black trans person! Wow, they’re so popular right now. I just reserved a spot in heaven!! Thank you! Next!”
Or we can just treat any human with respect and dignity for the rest of our lives. It’s actually more straightforward than the opposite.
I mean it doesn’t take long for folks to get sick of trends and that’s the greatest danger of it all, because when we begin to express the slightest hint of “trend” fatigue, suddenly we’re all racists and bigots again.
Everything is being blown out of proportion because of these so called trends, and we can see it happen in these UI prototypes.
On the other hand there seems to be no way around trends these days.
If it trends, it makes sense. Apparently.
Again, I do respect that the team works on inclusivity for all but please make it future proof, these features can remain subtle without having to cause offense. Don’t loose the crazy wacky essence of sims and their crazy mad personalities because some “social justice issue” is trending in the world.
Well…unless bodyhair is cool again, of course. In that case please go ahead, for I’m still dealing with a distorted body image thanks to The Sims 4. 🤭
I have a question... Many people want the Sims 4 to be more like real life so theey can be properly represented and acknowledged. Fine. I can understand that. So where in real life are these visual idenifying tags?
The answer is that In real life they don't exist, you don't instantly know the entirety about someone life, identity, orientation, gender preference religion just by looking at them. You may recieve some cues based on the way they present themselves, but I personally don't like making such assumptions. I prefer to find out who someone is through talking with them.
Comments
People are free to do whatever they wish in their games as they purchased it with their own money. Premades are there to be customized to the Simmer's liking and judging someone for doing that is low and tiny. Earlier, someone mentioned knowing a person who wants their Sims to be exclusively gay. I'm not gay at all and I thought nothing of it. That's his game and he can do whatever he likes in it. He's gay, of course he wants to create Sims that are like him and he's more than free to do that. Why is turning, say, transgender Sims into something else "lacking understanding and respect" when I've seen nothing on turning straight Sims gay?
I once turned a male Sim female. I must hate men, right? No. Because it's a game and games aren't really supposed to be taken seriously. Especially one as wacky as this.
Respect is a two-way street. I'm fine with the addition of this feature if others want it, but I am not fine if it's as invasive as some of us fear it to be. I'm not going to be angry or upset about this feature as that's rather knee-jerk, but I'm definitely concerned. I would hope that's fair.
EDIT: huh, guess that's censored. It would be hasty to be upset about this feature is what I mean.
EDIT 2: lol just noticed they were banned. never mind then
I 100% agree with your comment, it is our game and we should play it as we wish, its not being judgemental in real life if we wanted to change things up and we shouldn't be made to feel bad for how we play, I personally wouldn't create a sim that doesn't identify themselves as a gender, does that really show my character ? outside the game, does that make me a bad person?, no it doesn't, I don't care what someones sexually, gender/non gender, religion, nationally is if the person is nice to me, I'm nice to them, I won't create a non gender sim because I want all my sims to identify themselves as a gender, that's all there is to it
I use the LGBT mod to experience coming out. Through gameplay.
Oh, I do hope you're right about that. I really hate the term sis gender.
http://www.getfreeebooks.com/star-trek-original-series-fan-fiction-trilogy/
Not sure if townies would have this as well? Could there be a toggle for this, perhaps?
(She/her)
It's cisgender.
Of course it should have good gameplay. I'm not sure I get your point. Maybe it's because I'm way too tired. Off to bed 😆
The way the company is handling the update, with vague, unconfirmed details, is generating hostile attention to a small minority that has a very high rate of depression and suicide and that experiences a lot of harassment and bullying. More then 65% of trans teens experience suicidal thoughts and they have a suicide rate twice as high as other lgbtq minorities. As a teen this game gave me so much joy and happiness and that comment really broke my heart. Please confirm officially if it is going to be optional or not to end backlash and incitement of bullying or harassment of trans teen players online. It's not everywhere there is forum moderators like here and teens get bullied usually on their own accounts.
The company has always pushed boundaries and tried to be inclusive, it's part of their company history and it's really cool to be part of that as a player, but they have also listened to feedback and made changes for us and I'm sure even though they want to push boundaries, I highly doubt they want to push their majority core players so far out of their comfort zone that they don't feel like playing anymore. They have never done that in the past. For example, all the men's skirts created recently was in an optional kit and even included some standard pieces like the denim suit, trousers and plain shoes for everyone to enjoy. Most important thing is just to voice your opinion of what you would like or not like and how it might impact your gameplay.
If you choose to use it, I hope they will not make it highly visible in the gameplay, like as depicted in the screenshots showing floating above their heads, because in reality, even though you may share your pronouns for communication purposes, doesn't mean they are permanently floating above your head. I didn't see the gurus' pronouns written across their foreheads during the livestream. It would make more sense if it was in the Sim Profile like where the marital status, traits are.
As for where it is located in CAS, I don't mind at all how they set it up in CAS, but I know many players are sensitive to CAS. There are so many mods even adjusting the lighting, adding backdrops, dressers and mirrors, etc. Also language and names are very important to one’s identity, whereas pronouns are kind of new, we can't add our ethnicity, race, nationality, religion, or sexuality beside the name and pronouns to me seem more about communication then identity, so maybe they should consider the feedback and move it to the side so as it's less upsetting for people who can't add other identification, feel confronted by it, or just think it's cluttered there at the top. I don't mind personally, because CAS is just where everything is to customize my Sim, it doesn't really matter how it looks to me, but I do have the mod that adds 4 columns in the clothing menu, so I really hope it won't break that one. This is a popular mod, so if it does impact it, then I hope they will update the columns for the game themselves. I would prefer not to use a mod to get more CAS columns.
I would also like a T-Shirt with the He/Him, She/Her, They/Them pronouns on the T-Shirt because I think that would be cool. They have similarly made rainbow pride T-Shirts. Mostly I would like some art paintings by a Trans artist with the update.
Is there anything said about whether or not these pronouns are available for random created Sims? If the game generates new townies not everyone wants or needs townies to use they/them. I hope this can be set in the options so everyone can choose for themselves. Personally I prefer to play with sims with the traditional male and female gender so I hope that is still possible. I don't want to take away the option for non binary townies for those who need this. I just want it to be optional.
I imagine generated townies will either be strictly binary-only options (she/her or he/him) or (and hopefully) be percentage or RNG based and it's just randomized people.
I just pop up for some news (and mostly lols tbh) and yet there is something I don't get here: why must the sim's pronounce be visible in the live mode? So other sims can address them accordingly?
But they won't though, they'll use the same old sul-sul-mu-mu or whatever, so what's the point?
OMG are you SERIOUS?! Why couldn’t you just create a new FEMALE sim?? I know you say you’re not, but you’re a man hater. Just like everybody else in the world. Plus you just ruined my game.
*sulks in corner with a tub of icecream*.
The dazed sim drama was started by a simmer that is part of the tiny community this pronouns update caters too. They‘re on a mission to make this game as bland as possible.
I just don‘t understand why it‘s only this particular real life issue that made it so prominent into the game. Why do we stop at pronouns? Why doesn’t the top left corner of Create-a-Sim say „HELLO, MY NAME AND PRONOUNS AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND DISABILITY AND RELIGION AND ETHNICITY AND NATIONALITY AND RACE AND RACIAL IDENTITY* ARE“? Same with the little box that‘s floating over a sim‘s head.
Can somebody explain this to me? It almost feels like it‘s not a social justice issue but a trend that Sims team quickly jumps on before it becomes uncool again.
* for the Rachel Dolezal and Oli Londons out there
Good question. If we are talking about inclusivity and representation so much, then why not go all the way? Why stop at one issue? I'd be interested in some genuine answers to dearie_blossom's question.
Anyway I miss the times when the sims series was just a game.
I wonder how we‘ve survived for millions of years without this movement. Also why do I or my sims need to know that the little pixel alien doing pushups in the retail store next to the paparazzi harassing some pixelated celebrity prefers fae/faer/faerself? It‘s my game and I‘m going to refer to them as I want. Do they expect us to check the tooltip of every single townie so that we don‘t accidentally ‘misgender‘ them?
Malaga Rum Raisin. Not too sweet, more rum than raisin. 🤤
I sulk no more.
So called Justice for the Black and Asian and the LGTBQ+ community is trending right now.
I find it very sad that all this has to be “trending” for people to get some kind of recognition.
“Oh, Twitter just tweeted that I actually have to treat Asians and trans and black people as people! I didn’t realize!!! I better tell the world how much I care and treat them as real actual humans! Oh here’s my minute of silence. Oh and here’s a selfie of me and a…black trans person! Wow, they’re so popular right now. I just reserved a spot in heaven!! Thank you! Next!”
Or we can just treat any human with respect and dignity for the rest of our lives. It’s actually more straightforward than the opposite.
I mean it doesn’t take long for folks to get sick of trends and that’s the greatest danger of it all, because when we begin to express the slightest hint of “trend” fatigue, suddenly we’re all racists and bigots again.
Everything is being blown out of proportion because of these so called trends, and we can see it happen in these UI prototypes.
On the other hand there seems to be no way around trends these days.
If it trends, it makes sense. Apparently.
Again, I do respect that the team works on inclusivity for all but please make it future proof, these features can remain subtle without having to cause offense. Don’t loose the crazy wacky essence of sims and their crazy mad personalities because some “social justice issue” is trending in the world.
Well…unless bodyhair is cool again, of course. In that case please go ahead, for I’m still dealing with a distorted body image thanks to The Sims 4. 🤭
The answer is that In real life they don't exist, you don't instantly know the entirety about someone life, identity, orientation, gender preference religion just by looking at them. You may recieve some cues based on the way they present themselves, but I personally don't like making such assumptions. I prefer to find out who someone is through talking with them.