EA needs to address their anti-gay male bias in The Sims... NOW! «12...Next Go

Lustianicia

EA is a gaming company that often profits off the LGBT community every chance they get. However, there seems to be a very obvious bias and double standard taking place in The Sims when it comes to lesbian couples VS gay male couples...

In the Sims 3 'Roaring Heights' DLC, the very first same-sex couple in the entire franchise was introduced (Dylan & Audrey Shear). In Sims 4: Island Living, we saw the introduction of another same-sex couple (Oliana Ngata & Leila Illes). In Sims 4: Eco Lifestyle, we were introduced to not just one, but TWO new couples (Blossom & Mary Greenburg and Tina & Yasemin Tinker). All of these couples are female/female. They also all have a child.

Meanwhile, throughout the entire franchise, we've seen the addition of ONE gay male couple... Brant & Brent Hecking. They don't have a child. Not only do they lack a child, but EA decided to perpetrate a stereotype by making them a gay male couple with a "fur baby" instead! Now, I understand they were introduced with 'Cats & Dogs', so having a pet would be expected, but the lack of a son/daughter in their family is truly something that catches my eye... especially when compared to how the lesbian couples all have children.

This is extremely problematic... especially coming from a gaming company that constantly brags about how "progressive" they are for LGBT representation. Unfortunately, this is a popular trend among companies in general. They'll claim to support the LGBT community, while always taking the absolute safest route possible when it comes to representation, which ultimately ends up with a lesbian or bisexual female as the face of it.

Now, I'm not saying lesbian representation doesn't matter... however, in The Sims, there seems to be an obvious bias in favor of lesbians VS gay men.

There's a history of common bias in the media when it comes to lesbian representation VS gay male representation. If lesbians and gay men were equally discriminated against, attacked, viewed as "disgusting", etc, I would probably agree that ANY LGBT representation in this game is great, but that's not the case... generally speaking, most of society doesn't have as much of an issue with lesbians or female/female relationships as they do gay men and male/male relationships.

The fact that we've had only ONE gay male couple in the entire franchise, while having the addition of several lesbian couples, is problematic. The fact that the one and only gay male couple is also shown without a child makes it even worse. Not only is EA sending the message that lesbians are "more acceptable", but they're also perpetrating a stereotype by doing this. If Brant and Brent had a dog AND a child, it wouldn't be so bad, but this is a very obvious bias going on.

A few years ago (I can't remember the exact year), The Sims social media accounts also posted a "rainbow" image of Sims for Pride month. The lesbian couple in the picture was represented with a child... the gay male couple wasn't. Meanwhile, there's also a male/female couple shown in the same exact picture... and they're represented holding a baby:



According to EA, lesbian and heterosexual couples are allowed to have children, but gay men should only be limited to dogs, apparently...

Also, this bias extends even back to the 1990's and early 2000's when The Sims was first announced/revealed. When The Sims was first revealed, they actually showed two female Sims kissing, which they proudly touted as "progress"... progress that would ultimately end up benefiting lesbians in future titles, while being the derailment of gay men.

Even in the "re-branding" of The Sims 4 (which can be seen at the top left corner of this site), a lesbian couple is represented in the logo. To further this, while they aren't actually in the game itself, their CAS bios (Dela Ostrow & Mia Hayes) indicate they are indeed a couple. EA could've easily used a gay male couple OR (better yet) both, but they chose not to... and based on their history, I think it's safe to say this was a conscious choice on their part.

I understand I can simply create my own same-sex couples... but that's not the point I'm making here. The Sims (and EA itself) is a franchise that constantly claims to support the LGBT community (again, often profiting off of us whenever they can). The fact that they aren't showing equal representation is problematic. They've clearly shown a bias in favor of one specific demographic in the LGBT community, while throwing scraps to the others (the more marginalized and oppressed). This isn't acceptable.

Representation matters for everyone. Including gay men. Do better, EA! Not only do we need more gay male couples in The Sims, but they should also be more diverse. This includes gay male couples with children... and no, fur babies don't count. That's a gay male stereotype.

Representation matters!

alanmichael1

Who cares for premade Sims? As a gay man myself I can say that I never felt as represented as in this game. It's the gayest thing in the world.

Camkat

The thing is, once they start things like this, then you will have people "counting". Next it will be counting the skin colours of pre-mades we get. You can customize the game how you like. Add them in if you want them, delete them if you don't. Give them children or pets. It's all up to you. I've never felt that the sims they add dictate or represent... anything... other than the random people I would see in my real life.

It's also best to keep in mind that this iteration isn't over yet. The next ep might well contain the family of pre-mades you are hoping for.

Kellogg_J_Kellogg

Your game. Play it your way.

Duvelina

@Lustianicia I agreed with your opening post until I saw your first comment. Who are you to push your opinions of EA on everyone else? A gay man comments he feels the game has enough representation, you undermine that and then continue to state that only straight people liked his post. There's so much wrong with your comment, I'm having a hard time even addressing it all.

First of all, maybe a shocker, not everyone feels the same way you do. Other people with the same sexuality you have might disagree with you. So not all likes have to be by straight people because you don't speak for an entire sexuality.

Second, stop generalizing. Not all straight people feel against what you're saying either. Immediately assuming straight people MUST be against your point of view is harmful as well and doesn't make anyone sympathetic towards your pledge.

Just some food for thought. Maybe try to express yourself more carefully in the future.

crocobaura

Lustianicia wrote: »

alanmichael1 wrote: »

Who cares for premade Sims? As a gay man myself I can say that I never felt as represented as in this game. It's the gayest thing in the world.

And this is exactly why companies continue giving the absolute minimum when it comes to represention. But hey, you made several straight people agree with you... so I guess that's something.

You do realize that it's not compulsory for a couple to have children? Maybe they are at a point in life or their relationship where children are not a priority.

MaggieMarley

I hope there will be more male same sex couples coming in future packs. In my game I have MCCC which sees to it that there are plenty of same sex couples of both genders and I have male pregnancy enabled so that everyone can have children.... But it'd certainly be a step forward for EA to introduce some premade families with two fathers. I have to admit I was surprised by their choice to have two lesbian couples in EL but no same sex male couple. And what you say about children is important too.

leo3487

Im more concerned at the fact at CAS we can play with genetics using 2 mothers or 2 fathers BUT....
Olive Thinker is biological daughter only of Yasemine. Tina is her stepmother

elelunicy

The game has always been blatantly favoring female Sims over male Sims, so is it really a surprise that it also favors lesbian couples?

I mean just look at the number of male Sims featured on the box art vs. female Sims.

Packs with more male Sims on the box art: Vampires, Realm of Magic, Vintage Glamour Stuff, or 3 packs in total.

Packs with more female Sims on the box art: Get to Work, Get Together, City Living, Cats & Dogs, Get Famous, Island Living, Discover University, Eco Lifestyle, Parenthood, StrangerVille, Perfect Patio Stuff, Cool Kitchen Stuff, Backyard Stuff, Bowling Night Stuff, Fitness Stuff, Toddler Stuff, Moschino Stuff, or 17(!) packs in total.

MaggieMarley

Bronwin2 wrote: »

At the risk of being banned, I disagree. EA has gone hopelessly PC and failure to agree gets you banned, but I have had enough. As it is the game is evermore shifting into sexual areas left well enough alone. It is moving into areas unsuitable for young children as it is.

The game has always had straight couples and I don't see how the addition of same sex couples makes it any more inappropritate for children. Surely if anything it's a good message for children as it teaches them about the different people in the world, acceptance, inclusivity etc?

Lustianicia

Camkat wrote: »

The thing is, once they start things like this, then you will have people "counting". Next it will be counting the skin colours of pre-mades we get. You can customize the game how you like. Add them in if you want them, delete them if you don't. Give them children or pets. It's all up to you. I've never felt that the sims they add dictate or represent... anything... other than the random people I would see in my real life.

It's also best to keep in mind that this iteration isn't over yet. The next ep might well contain the family of pre-mades you are hoping for.

You missed the point entirely... EA literally profits off the gay community every chance they get, but always show the absolute minimal representation.

Lustianicia

Kellogg_J_Kellogg wrote: »

Your game. Play it your way.

Another missed point...

Lustianicia

crocobaura wrote: »

Lustianicia wrote: »

alanmichael1 wrote: »

Who cares for premade Sims? As a gay man myself I can say that I never felt as represented as in this game. It's the gayest thing in the world.

And this is exactly why companies continue giving the absolute minimum when it comes to represention. But hey, you made several straight people agree with you... so I guess that's something.

You do realize that it's not compulsory for a couple to have children? Maybe they are at a point in life or their relationship where children are not a priority.

Then they should create more premade male same-sex couples who are ready to have children... your explanation might make sense if there were other gay male Sim couples with kids, but there aren't. These are literally the ONLY gay male sims in the entire game... and they don't have kids, while all the lesbians do.

Duvelina

@Lustianicia I have no idea what you're trying to say here. You're generalizing straight people by saying that they all must be against homosexuality in the game.

You know nothing about my sexuality and I don't feel the need to suddenly 'label' myself here. People with differing sexualities CAN be happy with the representation in the game and not mind the premades as much because they can create their own characters anyway. Someone being straight doesn't mean they don't want the diversity that you want.

Onverser

Yeah, we need more diverse representation, it's a shame there's only the Heckings, they're some of my favorite townies but it doesn't really bother me that much. Pre-mades are generally just background characters for my game. I really doubt it's done in a malicious way though

crocobaura

Lustianicia wrote: »

crocobaura wrote: »

Lustianicia wrote: »

alanmichael1 wrote: »

Who cares for premade Sims? As a gay man myself I can say that I never felt as represented as in this game. It's the gayest thing in the world.

And this is exactly why companies continue giving the absolute minimum when it comes to represention. But hey, you made several straight people agree with you... so I guess that's something.

You do realize that it's not compulsory for a couple to have children? Maybe they are at a point in life or their relationship where children are not a priority.

Then they should create more premade male same-sex couples who are ready to have children... your explanation might make sense if there were other gay male Sim couples with kids, but there aren't. These are literally the ONLY gay male sims in the entire game... and they don't have kids, while all the lesbians do.

Seriously, go and give your gay sim couple a baby (or more) if you think they are ready for kids. Maxis only started the story for you, it's up to you how you develop it.

Netzspannung

There was another thread recently that dealt with this topic, although in a different manner, and it gave me something to think about. I never realized before the disparity in numbers regarding male and female same gender couples in TS4. It is a fact though that cannot be disputed. I don't really play much with pre-mades, but that is not the point. The point is that EA sets up a simulated world with simulated people for us to play with and how this world is pre-populated matters. Representation leads to acceptance while non-representation encourages intolerance. So I agree that male couples should be represented in higher numbers and a variety of settings, e.g. married with children or more involved backstories including surrogacy, which would make for interesting relationships. Anyway, even though I love Brent and Brant, it is unfortunate that they are the only gay couple EA shipped with the game so far.

Camkat

Lustianicia wrote: »

Camkat wrote: »

The thing is, once they start things like this, then you will have people "counting". Next it will be counting the skin colours of pre-mades we get. You can customize the game how you like. Add them in if you want them, delete them if you don't. Give them children or pets. It's all up to you. I've never felt that the sims they add dictate or represent... anything... other than the random people I would see in my real life.

It's also best to keep in mind that this iteration isn't over yet. The next ep might well contain the family of pre-mades you are hoping for.

You missed the point entirely... EA literally profits off the gay community every chance they get, but always show the absolute minimal representation.

How are they profiting any more off the gay community than any other community? They advertise to them because they do include them but they advertise to others as well. Do we really know for sure that they've attracted more people because of this or did they already play the game anyways? I mean, it stands to reason that they have or else they wouldn't bother putting the advertising to it if it wasn't paying off, but they do advertise to different groups, ages etc as well so it's not like they're making all this money off soley gay men. The options are there to play and create whatever couples you like, with or without children and pets (if you have that pack). They could easily just advertise that it's possible to create them and just not bother creating pre-mades anymore on their end and ship the packs with empty neighbourhoods.

Also, I think some credit should be given to the fact that Brant and Brent were first in TS4. At the time they released I don't remember lesbians being upset that they were men and not women.

Babykittyjade

I think I'll stay out if this. A few things I don't discuss except with close friends is gender,politics and religion. But I'm trying hard to understand your point but I don't quite get it. The most we can do is start a justice for makes petition because my males are severely lacking in CAS without cc and the sims have always pushed more towards females. It's just the direction they decided to go in.

That said I have plenty of gay sims and trans sims I made myself. I deleted all premades and made my own. You can play this game as gay or as straight as you want literally. You could even go in and make the premades gay if you wanted.

I think it's a bit of an over reaction but maybe I'm just not getting it. 😆 I think the sims are more about freedom of choice more then representation. Because it gives you the freedom to represent what you want however you want it.

SailorCeti

Honestly, I’m bi and this is a little silly. What they should do instead of making pre-made couples is add “orientation” options to CAS and randomize townies. That way, a variety happens naturally.

Then have the randomizer use up to date census percentages to make it more realistic. For example...

“A 2017 Gallup poll concluded that 4.5% of adult Americans identified as LGBT with 5.1% of women identifying as LGBT, compared with 3.9% of men. A different survey in 2016, from the Williams Institute, estimated that 0.6% of U.S. adults identify as transgender.”

Representation is one thing, and we’ve been represented. Having equality in instances is unrealistic, even in real life.

EgonVM

Just giving my opinion here.

There have been more two-men couples in trailers than two-woman (Cats & Dogs reveal trailer, Seasons holiday gameplay trailer, and Discover University gameplay trailer). Additionally, I got an impression that Brent and Brant have just got married and haven't had previous relationships with female sims, thus they still have time to adopt a child. As they live in Brindleton Bay, they got a dog.
Also, the game suggest that Oliana Ngata has been previously in relationship with a male sim as her child, Tane Ngata, is only shown to be a child on Oliana, not Leila, suggesting he was already born when Oliana and Leila got married. Same with Tinker family with Yasemin and Olive. However, I find it strange that the same thing is shown with Greenburg family as the household description states that Blossom and Mary adopted Knox, but Knox is only shown to be Blossom's son. Usually, if a married sim adopts a child, the child has child-parent ties with the sim and their spouce. This could also suggest that Blossom adopted him when she was engaged or just going out with Mary. This could be a good explanation for that.

Netzspannung

What I don't really understand is why are so many people who are either members or allies of the LGBTQ+ community arguing against this or telling OP to get over it? What harm could it do for EA to add a few gay couples with kids? It doesn't even take time away from developing new features or anything like that. Pre-mades and Maxis made Sims are prominently displayed in trailers and promotional material and are frequently discussed on the forums and social media. It means something to ship them with the game.

Camkat

Netzspannung wrote: »

What I don't really understand is why are so many people who are either members or allies of the LGBTQ+ community arguing against this or telling OP to get over it? What harm could it do for EA to add a few gay couples with kids? It doesn't even take time away from developing new features or anything like that. Pre-mades and Maxis made Sims are prominently displayed in trailers and promotional material and are frequently discussed on the forums and social media. It means something to ship them with the game.

I can only speak for myself, but the reason I'm disagreeing with the OP isn't that I don't want it included. It's that we can't really be mad over it when the game isn't finished yet. These characters might well be coming. In the meantime, we have some and we have options to make our own or download them off of the gallery.

Also disagreeing with the argument that their exploiting the gay community somehow to sell copies of the game. Not any more so than they're exploiting any target audience a specific ad was meant for.

NorthDakotaGamer

The premades are just background esthetic, like the set dressing on a sitcom. Many players ignore or even delete them. Personally, I only keep those that meet my gameplay style and delete the rest that do not. I even give makeovers to the ones I choose to keep. Representation is what you make of the game. While that may not be what you want to hear, it is the truth. My own experiences are not really represented in-game unless I create it.

I personally make each save which I play represent what I want. My favorite main save to play right now is my decades save. I even had to hide in an inaccessible basement certain gameplay objects required in certain venues to fit the era I am currently playing.

ryttu3k

@Lustianicia I absolutely agree with your initial statement. While it's fantastic that there's queer representation in TS4, it's very unevenly spread. I'm not sure it's done via maliciousness, at least - it's possibly an unconscious bias towards female characters, and, extending from that, female couples. It may also be an unconscious bias towards mothers instead of fathers for families? I checked family composition - of single-parent households, there are four single mothers, Katrina Caliente, Mila Munch, Geeta Rasoya, and Minerva Charm (and arguably Keala Hoapili), and only one single father, Jacques Villareal. Who, uh, is not exactly a shining paragon of fatherhood!

Still, while it's not likely to be done out of maliciousness, I do think they need to address the imbalance. Next pack absolutely needs more representation, and that includes more gay male couples with kids. And more beyond just the next pack, too! I'd like to see a long-term effort in adding more representation for all sorts of people and families.

(I'd personally like to see more Sims that are explicitly trans, like Morgyn! Lia is set as female in everything but body shape, Paka'a is set as male in everything but body shape too, so they're... a reach in terms of representation. So far, Morgyn is it. And I adore Morgyn - literally bounced on my bed in excitement when I saw their gender settings - initially entirely because, yes, they were trans and I had had no one like me until then. So yeah, representation is needed.)

For others in the thread: representation is important. Premade Sims exist for a reason - to flesh out the world. They're not just set dressing - they're playable characters, they're neighbours, friends, family. When you don't have representation, it's hard to feel like it's a world that people like you can belong to.

[Removed ~Rtas]

akaniki0

Maybe that will be their "never been done before" pack.