October 18 - Take a look at the Friday Highlight and discover some awesim discussions! Click me!
October 18, correction: 11AM PDT - Join us for a Guru Garage! Details here.
October 10 - A new The Sims 4 update is ready for you on Xbox One and PlayStation 4! Details here

Why isn't TS4 inclusive of family players?

Comments

  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    Children pubs do exist irl. They’re pretty cool and have awesome family games.
    OriginID: hestiah23 | Showcase
    jfIpSFy.png
  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 896 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I've gotta say, I don't understand the anger about kids being allowed in nightclubs or even bars.
    Setting aside the absolutely not okay thing about adults inviting children to hang out anywhere unless they're family members or friends, why should those venues be strictly adult-only?

    Nightclubs where I grew up and live now have always had "kid discos" with only child-friendly drinks served, bars and pubs often have food served on the premises and children are very much allowed in both. Granted, it would be nice to have a mechanic that would restrict kids from entering them after watershed so they wouldn't go party there at 2am in the morning, but I don't see an issue with them being invited there by friends to hang out as long as it doesn't automatically open the option to order 'juice'. There's nothing inherently adult about things like dancing and being in the mere presence of a bar that stocks 'juice'.
    I think there’s a difference between a pub (kids are allowed there and can have a Coke) and actual nightclubs.

    I'm not saying let kids be allowed to be out late at night or let them order 'juice' from the bar. That same bar in a nightclub does also serve Coke or any other similar drinks as adults who drink those exist. Unless it's specifically closed during hours unsuitable for kids (a mechanic not included for those venues at the moment, though something that would definitely be fun), there really is no difference. We're not talking what kind of events kids can be invited to, we're talking buildings with specific items in them.
  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 896 Member
    Hestia wrote: »
    Children pubs do exist irl. They’re pretty cool and have awesome family games.

    Cool. That doesn't change the fact that other pubs allow children in (sure, there's restrictions for time and the obvious restrictions on what kids can order).
  • invisiblgirlinvisiblgirl Posts: 1,159 Member
    The Goth kid invited my two adults to hang out with him at 3 am at a nightclub more than once; I chalked it up to that Goth family being Just Not Right. Raised eyebrows, but not worth getting in a twist over. Kids aren't allowed in nightclubs in real life because of the horrific things that could happen to them, and the game simply doesn't allow those things. It's a different world.

    I've got more of an issue with things kids could and should be able to do, but the focus has been on activities for YAs rather than creating animations for kids and toddlers.
    I just want things to match. :'(
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    The Goth kid invited my two adults to hang out with him at 3 am at a nightclub more than once; I chalked it up to that Goth family being Just Not Right. Raised eyebrows, but not worth getting in a twist over. Kids aren't allowed in nightclubs in real life because of the horrific things that could happen to them, and the game simply doesn't allow those things. It's a different world.

    I've got more of an issue with things kids could and should be able to do, but the focus has been on activities for YAs rather than creating animations for kids and toddlers.

    Yeah. That's the very unfortunate part since the beginning of TS4. I thought they would have changed ever since I took a long break in 2017. Oh well.
    OriginID: hestiah23 | Showcase
    jfIpSFy.png
  • LordOfTendonsLordOfTendons Posts: 210 Member
    the kids cant drink at the bar so if you don't like your sims kids going there don't take them there and stop trying to ruin the game for other people by taking yet more things out of the game also this is taking the thread off topic this is suppose to be a thread about adding more things to the game for family players not removing things some people don't like I get the kids milkshakes at the bar in game and they enjoy dancing at the nightclub

    You can't stop townies from bringing kids in there, even if you're hyper-vigilant about deleting them. If they've got time to defend children going into nightclubs and bars, they've got time to animate kids doing magic. The topic is about family play and there is noting off topic about pointing out how not-family it is for children to be going into bars and nightclubs.
    I am but a simple demigod
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,466 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I've gotta say, I don't understand the anger about kids being allowed in nightclubs or even bars.
    Setting aside the absolutely not okay thing about adults inviting children to hang out anywhere unless they're family members or friends, why should those venues be strictly adult-only?

    Nightclubs where I grew up and live now have always had "kid discos" with only child-friendly drinks served, bars and pubs often have food served on the premises and children are very much allowed in both. Granted, it would be nice to have a mechanic that would restrict kids from entering them after watershed so they wouldn't go party there at 2am in the morning, but I don't see an issue with them being invited there by friends to hang out as long as it doesn't automatically open the option to order 'juice'. There's nothing inherently adult about things like dancing and being in the mere presence of a bar that stocks 'juice'.
    I think there’s a difference between a pub (kids are allowed there and can have a Coke) and actual nightclubs.

    I'm not saying let kids be allowed to be out late at night or let them order 'juice' from the bar. That same bar in a nightclub does also serve Coke or any other similar drinks as adults who drink those exist. Unless it's specifically closed during hours unsuitable for kids (a mechanic not included for those venues at the moment, though something that would definitely be fun), there really is no difference. We're not talking what kind of events kids can be invited to, we're talking buildings with specific items in them.
    This is a matter of difference in opinion by the way, I appreciate and understand why not everyone will feel the same way as me. But if I send my sim to a nightclub, I just like it that it’s adults only there and that he can even get drunk or sick. Not because I behave that way myself (I actually hate the feeling of being even a bit fuddled irl), but I do like realities like that in my game. I never play myself actually, I love to play characters that are unlike me. A bar or nightclub simply will have a totally different atmosphere that won’t make sense when there are kids walking around.
  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 896 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I've gotta say, I don't understand the anger about kids being allowed in nightclubs or even bars.
    Setting aside the absolutely not okay thing about adults inviting children to hang out anywhere unless they're family members or friends, why should those venues be strictly adult-only?

    Nightclubs where I grew up and live now have always had "kid discos" with only child-friendly drinks served, bars and pubs often have food served on the premises and children are very much allowed in both. Granted, it would be nice to have a mechanic that would restrict kids from entering them after watershed so they wouldn't go party there at 2am in the morning, but I don't see an issue with them being invited there by friends to hang out as long as it doesn't automatically open the option to order 'juice'. There's nothing inherently adult about things like dancing and being in the mere presence of a bar that stocks 'juice'.
    I think there’s a difference between a pub (kids are allowed there and can have a Coke) and actual nightclubs.

    I'm not saying let kids be allowed to be out late at night or let them order 'juice' from the bar. That same bar in a nightclub does also serve Coke or any other similar drinks as adults who drink those exist. Unless it's specifically closed during hours unsuitable for kids (a mechanic not included for those venues at the moment, though something that would definitely be fun), there really is no difference. We're not talking what kind of events kids can be invited to, we're talking buildings with specific items in them.
    This is a matter of difference in opinion by the way, I appreciate and understand why not everyone will feel the same way as me. But if I send my sim to a nightclub, I just like it that it’s adults only there and that he can even get drunk or sick. Not because I behave that way myself (I actually hate the feeling of being even a bit fuddled irl), but I do like realities like that in my game. I never play myself actually, I love to play characters that are unlike me. A bar or nightclub simply will have a totally different atmosphere that won’t make sense when there are kids walking around.

    I understand that. It's one of the reasons why I'd love a mechanic for venues that would allow us to designate time windows for their opening times and possibly even times when specific age groups are allowed in them. Or a way to designate venues for specific age groups maybe. I'd just prefer not to have a whole age group excluded from a place I find perfectly acceptable for them (within the reason I mentioned like not having them at 2am) across the entire game.

    For what it's worth, my reaction was prompted by comments which deemed nightclubs and bars absolutely unsuitable for kids under any circumstances at any time, in TS4 and in real life.

    Also, the way I understand it (and I've looked up issues with kids showing up in bars and nightclubs), the allowed mechanic is kids being invited by other Sims (of any age) to those venues is okay. In that case, the child is your played Sim. Kids or teens showing up in those venues autonomously when you're in one of those venues playing with a YA or Adult Sim is not. If you are having that issue, it might be time to revive this old bug report because that's not meant to happen.
  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 7,888 Member
    edited August 26
    I never see kids showing up autonomously in nightclubs in the game. Now I don't go everyday but my sims do go out to lounges and nightclubs now and then. I don't have mods... right now so maybe that's part of the upset? Are they just showing up autonomously or are people getting upset because they can be invited to play hooky there in the daytime and the person actually controlling choices for that sim is simply offended even though they clearly have a choice to say no? What if I wanted to play out a situation where a child wanted to play hooky there because it was a "forbidden" place to them, it should just be restricted because it's right to do so and anyone who thinks otherwise is "disgusting"? How dare I want to play out a situation where a child sim goes into a non alcoholic nightclub! The children might be trampled on the dance floor! They might see closet woohoo! Their parents would never woohoo at home!
    People pick the strangest things to get upset about.
    Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
    Put 'em together and what have you got?
    Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,466 Member
    edited August 26
    People have different opinions and playing styles. I wouldn’t necessarily call other people’s view ‘strange’, certainly not in the discussion about it. “Look, there’s my opinion, and then there’s strange opinions.” Apart from the fact that pointing out something as not so great doesn’t necessarily mean you’re upset. By using words like that to qualify other people’s arguments, you’re sort of ridiculing what they have to say, placing them in the position of being a whiner just because they don’t like something you apparently don’t mind about and express that. This place would be so much nicer if we’d just stick to our own opinions and explain them instead of downplaying those of others.

    I’d like nightclubs to be accessible for everybody, including kids, but them not getting any invitations to go there or them to show up autonomously. And isn’t the latter the issue here?
  • IceyJIceyJ Posts: 3,713 Member
    edited August 26
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    Well it showns, when there's not even incentive to allow magic for children. Does have some validity by the response, but as a counterargument in some magic-theme creative outlet (Harry Potter for instance) magic wasn't just exclusive to anyone above 12 year old. (Lol, you can't even portray early teens because of giant height transition). Not to mention, it doesn't help for players who been asking for more fun interactions for children. Why not at least include some of it through packs? Been a long time (children SP) since those lil Sims to preoccupy there time on, other than worn-out BG activities.

    Well, can't say I'm surprised. Really, I don't understand why it seems like there is very little desire to do anything for children in anything other that a pack dedicated to them. And it's not like the children in TS4 are super young. If they were meant to be like 6, maybe I could understand it, but the children in TS4 look dang near 10 years old. Surely they could be able to do some form of magic. I literally couldn't care less about magic in the game, but it's still annoying to me how for the past year we've gotten several packs where they could have done more for children and toddlers, but they outright seem to be choosing not to for no good reason.

    Not to mention sims 4 kids can do laundry. They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.

    But they can’t do do magic.

    A guru told you that? Exactly that?

    Yes. Sim Guru Nick told me that on twitter round about just after the bug of random children calling adult sims to hang out was fixed - I asked him on twitter what my sim kids were asking other kids to nightclubs to play hooky and he said a nightclub an “appropriate venue for children.” I beg your pardon, that was his phrasing. I was shocked. I expected it to be a bug!

    This was in October 2017. I dont have the screenshot anymore but if you search on twitter it can be found

    I found it. To keep things in context, he was explaining that the game chooses from a random list of supported venues. In the game, children were allowed at nightclubs/bars. (They'd have to be in order to go bowling.) He wasn't exactly saying that he thinks nightclubs and bars are appropriate for children.
    Please explain to me the difference between acceptable and appropriate here? When you allow kids somewhere, you thereby consider it appropriate (or I should hope, the alternative would be kind of fishy: yes, we allow it but nooo, of course it’s not appropriate). They created the game and the game lists nightclubs as ‘actually’ acceptable for kids. That’s him exactly saying just that, that he (or at least the creators of the game) considers a nightclub an acceptable (and therefor appropriate) place for kids to hang out. That it is not a bug.

    The difference is context. He was only explaining how it works in the game (and there are reasons.) You're attaching more to his words than what was said.

    Now, I don't know for what reasons nightclubs/bars are allowed, but one possible explanation is that those two venues are where the bowling alleys are placed. (Bowling Stuff had come out some months before.) Because children can bowl in the game= they must be allowed at those venues (in the game.)

    I think the actual bug was children inviting adults out, and vice versa, which I believe was finally fixed. And I never see kids appear autonomously at those two venues, either. (Unless there's a bowling alley, I think?) So that part should no longer be an issue. However, the possibility to take kids to those venues is still enabled for the player so we have that choice. Maybe I want to play a deviant kid. You can send your kids out in the middle of the night, and the game won't tell you it's wrong. It is up to the player to play how he/she wants, set curfews, etc. It gives us some freedom to decide what we think is right and wrong for that particular family instead of forcing everyone into the same playstyle. And I prefer it this way, thank you. :)
    This is the context:













    Also, you reacted to this statement, “They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.”, asking “A guru told you that? Exactly that?” The answer is yes, a guru told her that, exactly that.

    - “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children”
    - Actual tweet: “this venue is actually considered acceptable. Children are allowed at nightclubs.”

    With or without context (which comes down to interpretation), this is what was said.

    Actually, no. Saying that a guru told you "Night clubs are acceptable locations for children," is NOT what SimGuruNick said. That's why context is important. Her statement implied something else, when he was actually only describing the game mechanic. If you can't understand the difference, I'm afraid that I cannot explain it for you. I've already explained it as fully as I can above.

    Paraprashing and taking it out of context changes the meaning and perception entirely.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,891 Member
    Hestia wrote: »
    Children pubs do exist irl. They’re pretty cool and have awesome family games.

    Yes, but a nine year old doesn't wonder in alone and go around having chats with adults who are drinking and smoking do they? Sit and watch a romantic movie with strangers do they? and or show up alone without any sibling and or parent looking for them at closing time do they?
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 7,888 Member
    Are children actually showing up autonomously in bars and nightclubs anymore? Right now? They are not doing so in my game. Are they actually doing this in yours? This was addressed long ago.
    Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
    Put 'em together and what have you got?
    Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,891 Member
    edited August 26
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Are children actually showing up autonomously in bars and nightclubs anymore? Right now? They are not doing so in my game. Are they actually doing this in yours? This was addressed long ago.

    Even if it was addressed a long time ago it shouldn't have been a thing to start with, only giving the impression Sims don't care about their kids (and why should they we can just delete them all) where they go or what the do or what romantic Sim they are hanging out with. It's good if they patched this out, but it just prooves kids were an afterthought with very little depth to family relationships and the Sim actually caring. In TS1 Bella or Mort comes to get Cassandra if it's past the time she should be out alone even if at a friendly home. In TS2, even townie orphan kids have a townie come fetch them at your Sim's house. And in TS3 there is the curfew for all minors.

    The point I'm making is why aren' the rest of the family members as fleshed out as toddlers and a stronger bond enough to care where the heck their kids have run off to in the wee hours. They don't and to me it's shallow.

    Edit To Add: I'm not wanting to cramp anyone's play style. It was fun for me to play a runaway toddler who I sent out into the busy city streets to beg strangers and sleep on park benches. However, shouldn't there be an option for a parent to go search for child? Yes, I think so...depth matters to some. And or a freak out, I've lost my child mood? and run off to go get them? Or at least look around and ask themselves where the heck did I leave my toddler? It's all relevant to depth and family play. Parents should give a hoot more than they do.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 7,888 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Are children actually showing up autonomously in bars and nightclubs anymore? Right now? They are not doing so in my game. Are they actually doing this in yours? This was addressed long ago.

    Even if it was addressed a long time ago it shouldn't have been a thing to start with, only giving the impression Sims don't care about their kids (and why should they we can just delete them all) where they go or what the do or what romantic Sim they are hanging out with. It's good if they patched this out, but it just prooves kids were an afterthought with very little depth to family relationships and the Sim actually caring. In TS1 Bella or Mort comes to get Cassandra if it's past the time she should be out alone even if at a friendly home. In TS2, even townie orphan kids have a townie come fetch them at your Sim's house. And in TS3 there is the curfew for all minors.

    Okay then. They fixed it but pages and pages in a thread are complaining about it ... by people who have a friend of a friend that still plays the game no doubt. Maybe this thread should focus on things you want included in this game and changed currently to make it more inclusive for family players. You know current things. Things the developers might actually listen too because it is constructive and timely.
    On topic for my "family play". I want the ability to send my sim children and teens to bars if I feel like it. I chose to do so and I have that. I've recently sent a child to a karaoke bar and it was adorable to watch them sing. I also have teens that go to a "bar" I set up for my Stardew Valley save as it's reflective of what happens in that game. I don't get what the problem is about except for the invite phone calls. Which can be said no too.. If I had my way I'd get rid of all invite drop down phone calls or allow them per sim only.. players choice.
    Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
    Put 'em together and what have you got?
    Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,891 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Are children actually showing up autonomously in bars and nightclubs anymore? Right now? They are not doing so in my game. Are they actually doing this in yours? This was addressed long ago.

    Even if it was addressed a long time ago it shouldn't have been a thing to start with, only giving the impression Sims don't care about their kids (and why should they we can just delete them all) where they go or what the do or what romantic Sim they are hanging out with. It's good if they patched this out, but it just prooves kids were an afterthought with very little depth to family relationships and the Sim actually caring. In TS1 Bella or Mort comes to get Cassandra if it's past the time she should be out alone even if at a friendly home. In TS2, even townie orphan kids have a townie come fetch them at your Sim's house. And in TS3 there is the curfew for all minors.

    Okay then. They fixed it but pages and pages in a thread are complaining about it ... by people who have a friend of a friend that still plays the game no doubt. Maybe this thread should focus on things you want included in this game and changed currently to make it more inclusive for family players. You know current things. Things the developers might actually listen too because it is constructive and timely.
    On topic for my "family play". I want the ability to send my sim children and teens to bars if I feel like it. I chose to do so and I have that. I've recently sent a child to a karaoke bar and it was adorable to watch them sing. I also have teens that go to a "bar" I set up for my Stardew Valley save as it's reflective of what happens in that game. I don't get what the problem is about except for the invite phone calls. Which can be said no too.. If I had my way I'd get rid of all invite drop down phone calls or allow them per sim only.. players choice.

    The problem to me is none of this stuff can actually be implemented so therefore you will get to play your playstyle, I'm a deviant player and yes, I want to be able to send little kids to dark parks late at night to run into a creepy vampire etc. I agree people should have choices. But the game is setup to be able to delete any Sim and those who remain behind will never notice nor remember. There is where alimony and child support can't be implemented in a way that wouldn't cause a bug, because what happens to the telemetry of those support payments if a player just deletes a Sim? No doubt bugs would follow such an action.

    And other things like having a parent go search for child who is awol, again a player could just delete the child or parent so there goes more bugs during a session where the player would choose just delete on a whim and leave an unfinished action hanging.

    Those sort of things (being able to delete) is the whole prolem with the depth of game as far as relationships and bonding are concerned with other family members, it's just surface play, not indepth play and many things can't go over in ideas because they would be a waste of time since such things are hindered by being able to delete a family member in the middle of an action like I just described. Coding is tricky and it would cause more bugs than it is probably worth.

    So therefore, we can do nothing but point out the flaws from the beginning because why ask for things you know the game engine can't handle because the code doesn't keep up with other Sims like TS2 or TS3 and anyone can be deleted so this late in production it would ony add more bugs.therefore nothing left to do but point out the initial shallowness and after thought of family.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • PeculiarPlumbobPeculiarPlumbob Posts: 326 Member
    I play families almost exclusively (whenever a new pack comes out I play with young adults but they usually end up having kids at some point) and yeah, I've noticed over the years Sims 4 is truly a millenial simulator.

    Babies have nothing special to them. I have the baby stage last for 1 day because I just can't with them. They're so boring and they look kinda dead inside so I just wanna get my babies to toddlers as soon as possible so I can actually see what they look like etc.

    Toddlers don't really have much gameplay to them. If they had originally included them in the base game I think they could have a lot richer game play but instead it took them at least 15 packs before they included them in the game so toddlers missed out on a lot of potential stuff and game play. I personally don't agree with letting your toddler sit on a tablet all day but that is already a reality for many toddlers in real life...

    Children are a big meh for me... I've completed the four aspirations so many times that I just can't do them anymore. The school doesn't have any challenge to it (reaching level 4 in 1 skill is way too easy) At least now we have the scout thing and acting class so there's a little more to do even though they do get very repetitive. Hope they will add more activities like that in the future for the kids.

    Teenagers are basically young adults who can't have kids or get married (if you don't have a mod for it) so basically they're kinda boring unless you really wanna invest your time in detailed storylines.

    For me elders = one leg already in the grave. Elders have nothing to do. I wish they did so I would like to play with them and not mourn their deaths that haven't even happened yet. Maybe knitting, playing bingo, different kind of art things like pottery and simple interactions like telling other sims stories about their youth (I don't know if that exists already, just throwing that out there as an example)
    rnDo5Pk.jpg]

    Origin ID: Lottamelinaa
  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 7,888 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Are children actually showing up autonomously in bars and nightclubs anymore? Right now? They are not doing so in my game. Are they actually doing this in yours? This was addressed long ago.

    Even if it was addressed a long time ago it shouldn't have been a thing to start with, only giving the impression Sims don't care about their kids (and why should they we can just delete them all) where they go or what the do or what romantic Sim they are hanging out with. It's good if they patched this out, but it just prooves kids were an afterthought with very little depth to family relationships and the Sim actually caring. In TS1 Bella or Mort comes to get Cassandra if it's past the time she should be out alone even if at a friendly home. In TS2, even townie orphan kids have a townie come fetch them at your Sim's house. And in TS3 there is the curfew for all minors.

    Okay then. They fixed it but pages and pages in a thread are complaining about it ... by people who have a friend of a friend that still plays the game no doubt. Maybe this thread should focus on things you want included in this game and changed currently to make it more inclusive for family players. You know current things. Things the developers might actually listen too because it is constructive and timely.
    On topic for my "family play". I want the ability to send my sim children and teens to bars if I feel like it. I chose to do so and I have that. I've recently sent a child to a karaoke bar and it was adorable to watch them sing. I also have teens that go to a "bar" I set up for my Stardew Valley save as it's reflective of what happens in that game. I don't get what the problem is about except for the invite phone calls. Which can be said no too.. If I had my way I'd get rid of all invite drop down phone calls or allow them per sim only.. players choice.

    The problem to me is none of this stuff can actually be implemented so therefore you will get to play your playstyle, I'm a deviant player and yes, I want to be able to send little kids to dark parks late at night to run into a creepy vampire etc. I agree people should have choices. But the game is setup to be able to delete any Sim and those who remain behind will never notice nor remember. There is where alimony and child support can't be implemented in a way that wouldn't cause a bug, because what happens to the telemetry of those support payments if a player just deletes a Sim? No doubt bugs would follow such an action.

    And other things like having a parent go search for child who is awol, again a player could just delete the child or parent so there goes more bugs during a session where the player would choose just delete on a whim and leave an unfinished action hanging.

    Those sort of things (being able to delete) is the whole prolem with the depth of game as far as relationships and bonding are concerned with other family members, it's just surface play, not indepth play and many things can't go over in ideas because they would be a waste of time since such things are hindered by being able to delete a family member in the middle of an action like I just described. Coding is tricky and it would cause more bugs than it is probably worth.

    So therefore, we can do nothing but point out the flaws from the beginning because why ask for things you know the game engine can't handle because the code doesn't keep up with other Sims like TS2 or TS3 and anyone can be deleted so this late in production it would ony add more bugs.therefore nothing left to do but point out the initial shallowness and after thought of family.

    Okay I get it it's a complaint thread with no purpose but to bash the game then. My bad... came in on the tail end and saw something being discussed that I wanted to keep in my game and some misinformation being spread (the ability to send children where I want too, and children going to bars autonomously). I'll leave you all to continue doing what you do.
    Happy simming!
    Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
    Put 'em together and what have you got?
    Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,891 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Are children actually showing up autonomously in bars and nightclubs anymore? Right now? They are not doing so in my game. Are they actually doing this in yours? This was addressed long ago.

    Even if it was addressed a long time ago it shouldn't have been a thing to start with, only giving the impression Sims don't care about their kids (and why should they we can just delete them all) where they go or what the do or what romantic Sim they are hanging out with. It's good if they patched this out, but it just prooves kids were an afterthought with very little depth to family relationships and the Sim actually caring. In TS1 Bella or Mort comes to get Cassandra if it's past the time she should be out alone even if at a friendly home. In TS2, even townie orphan kids have a townie come fetch them at your Sim's house. And in TS3 there is the curfew for all minors.

    Okay then. They fixed it but pages and pages in a thread are complaining about it ... by people who have a friend of a friend that still plays the game no doubt. Maybe this thread should focus on things you want included in this game and changed currently to make it more inclusive for family players. You know current things. Things the developers might actually listen too because it is constructive and timely.
    On topic for my "family play". I want the ability to send my sim children and teens to bars if I feel like it. I chose to do so and I have that. I've recently sent a child to a karaoke bar and it was adorable to watch them sing. I also have teens that go to a "bar" I set up for my Stardew Valley save as it's reflective of what happens in that game. I don't get what the problem is about except for the invite phone calls. Which can be said no too.. If I had my way I'd get rid of all invite drop down phone calls or allow them per sim only.. players choice.

    The problem to me is none of this stuff can actually be implemented so therefore you will get to play your playstyle, I'm a deviant player and yes, I want to be able to send little kids to dark parks late at night to run into a creepy vampire etc. I agree people should have choices. But the game is setup to be able to delete any Sim and those who remain behind will never notice nor remember. There is where alimony and child support can't be implemented in a way that wouldn't cause a bug, because what happens to the telemetry of those support payments if a player just deletes a Sim? No doubt bugs would follow such an action.

    And other things like having a parent go search for child who is awol, again a player could just delete the child or parent so there goes more bugs during a session where the player would choose just delete on a whim and leave an unfinished action hanging.

    Those sort of things (being able to delete) is the whole prolem with the depth of game as far as relationships and bonding are concerned with other family members, it's just surface play, not indepth play and many things can't go over in ideas because they would be a waste of time since such things are hindered by being able to delete a family member in the middle of an action like I just described. Coding is tricky and it would cause more bugs than it is probably worth.

    So therefore, we can do nothing but point out the flaws from the beginning because why ask for things you know the game engine can't handle because the code doesn't keep up with other Sims like TS2 or TS3 and anyone can be deleted so this late in production it would ony add more bugs.therefore nothing left to do but point out the initial shallowness and after thought of family.


    Okay I get it it's a complaint thread with no purpose but to bash the game then. My bad... came in on the tail end and saw something being discussed that I wanted to keep in my game and some misinformation being spread (the ability to send children where I want too, and children going to bars autonomously). I'll leave you all to continue doing what you do.
    Happy simming!

    It's not my thread, I see where some say they still have this problem. I still had this problem (kids alone in bars) in 2017, if it's been patched, great, it makes more sense that little kids don't wander into nightclubs late at night and the game pick some other townie or played Sim to send. But it was a thing in my game for three years so I have to wonder why they never thought this wouldn't matter to family players.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 896 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »

    I’d like nightclubs to be accessible for everybody, including kids, but them not getting any invitations to go there or them to show up autonomously. And isn’t the latter the issue here?

    Fair enough about the invitations, which yes, are a part of the game mechanics. As for the latter, which is kids showing up in nightclubs autonomously, that most definitely is an issue if it's happening as it's something that was reported as a bug a long time ago and according to the bug report I linked earlier, should have been fixed. So if it's still something that happens in-game, it's a return of that bug and needs to be brought to the devs' attention. Of course, this is talking about a vanilla game, since there might be mods that mess with this and allow it to happen (which is not on the TS4 devs, obviously).
  • IceyJIceyJ Posts: 3,713 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Are children actually showing up autonomously in bars and nightclubs anymore? Right now? They are not doing so in my game. Are they actually doing this in yours? This was addressed long ago.

    I haven't seen any. I'm pretty sure it was addressed two years ago. There would be many recent complaints about it if it were still a problem. That's why I mentioned that some of us haven't played the game in so long; sometimes issues that were already resolved get brought up.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,466 Member
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    Well it showns, when there's not even incentive to allow magic for children. Does have some validity by the response, but as a counterargument in some magic-theme creative outlet (Harry Potter for instance) magic wasn't just exclusive to anyone above 12 year old. (Lol, you can't even portray early teens because of giant height transition). Not to mention, it doesn't help for players who been asking for more fun interactions for children. Why not at least include some of it through packs? Been a long time (children SP) since those lil Sims to preoccupy there time on, other than worn-out BG activities.

    Well, can't say I'm surprised. Really, I don't understand why it seems like there is very little desire to do anything for children in anything other that a pack dedicated to them. And it's not like the children in TS4 are super young. If they were meant to be like 6, maybe I could understand it, but the children in TS4 look dang near 10 years old. Surely they could be able to do some form of magic. I literally couldn't care less about magic in the game, but it's still annoying to me how for the past year we've gotten several packs where they could have done more for children and toddlers, but they outright seem to be choosing not to for no good reason.

    Not to mention sims 4 kids can do laundry. They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.

    But they can’t do do magic.

    A guru told you that? Exactly that?

    Yes. Sim Guru Nick told me that on twitter round about just after the bug of random children calling adult sims to hang out was fixed - I asked him on twitter what my sim kids were asking other kids to nightclubs to play hooky and he said a nightclub an “appropriate venue for children.” I beg your pardon, that was his phrasing. I was shocked. I expected it to be a bug!

    This was in October 2017. I dont have the screenshot anymore but if you search on twitter it can be found

    I found it. To keep things in context, he was explaining that the game chooses from a random list of supported venues. In the game, children were allowed at nightclubs/bars. (They'd have to be in order to go bowling.) He wasn't exactly saying that he thinks nightclubs and bars are appropriate for children.
    Please explain to me the difference between acceptable and appropriate here? When you allow kids somewhere, you thereby consider it appropriate (or I should hope, the alternative would be kind of fishy: yes, we allow it but nooo, of course it’s not appropriate). They created the game and the game lists nightclubs as ‘actually’ acceptable for kids. That’s him exactly saying just that, that he (or at least the creators of the game) considers a nightclub an acceptable (and therefor appropriate) place for kids to hang out. That it is not a bug.

    The difference is context. He was only explaining how it works in the game (and there are reasons.) You're attaching more to his words than what was said.

    Now, I don't know for what reasons nightclubs/bars are allowed, but one possible explanation is that those two venues are where the bowling alleys are placed. (Bowling Stuff had come out some months before.) Because children can bowl in the game= they must be allowed at those venues (in the game.)

    I think the actual bug was children inviting adults out, and vice versa, which I believe was finally fixed. And I never see kids appear autonomously at those two venues, either. (Unless there's a bowling alley, I think?) So that part should no longer be an issue. However, the possibility to take kids to those venues is still enabled for the player so we have that choice. Maybe I want to play a deviant kid. You can send your kids out in the middle of the night, and the game won't tell you it's wrong. It is up to the player to play how he/she wants, set curfews, etc. It gives us some freedom to decide what we think is right and wrong for that particular family instead of forcing everyone into the same playstyle. And I prefer it this way, thank you. :)
    This is the context:













    Also, you reacted to this statement, “They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.”, asking “A guru told you that? Exactly that?” The answer is yes, a guru told her that, exactly that.

    - “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children”
    - Actual tweet: “this venue is actually considered acceptable. Children are allowed at nightclubs.”

    With or without context (which comes down to interpretation), this is what was said.

    Actually, no. Saying that a guru told you "Night clubs are acceptable locations for children," is NOT what SimGuruNick said. That's why context is important. Her statement implied something else, when he was actually only describing the game mechanic. If you can't understand the difference, I'm afraid that I cannot explain it for you. I've already explained it as fully as I can above.

    Paraprashing and taking it out of context changes the meaning and perception entirely.
    If you expect me to see the difference between “Children are allowed at nightclubs” and “night clubs are acceptable locations for children”, you’re right, I don’t. The reason I make a point out of this, is because you sort of suggest MidnightAura made this up and misquoted, she absolutely didn’t. The guru most definitely said what she claimed he said. I get it’s in the game mechanics, but by doing so you appreciate it’s acceptable for kids to hang out there. Again, I don’t mind as long as I’m the one deciding if they go there, but I don’t want to see kids there when I visit a nightclub with my (adult) sim. If that’s fixed: good! Then there indeed is no problem anymore.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,281 Member
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    Well it showns, when there's not even incentive to allow magic for children. Does have some validity by the response, but as a counterargument in some magic-theme creative outlet (Harry Potter for instance) magic wasn't just exclusive to anyone above 12 year old. (Lol, you can't even portray early teens because of giant height transition). Not to mention, it doesn't help for players who been asking for more fun interactions for children. Why not at least include some of it through packs? Been a long time (children SP) since those lil Sims to preoccupy there time on, other than worn-out BG activities.

    Well, can't say I'm surprised. Really, I don't understand why it seems like there is very little desire to do anything for children in anything other that a pack dedicated to them. And it's not like the children in TS4 are super young. If they were meant to be like 6, maybe I could understand it, but the children in TS4 look dang near 10 years old. Surely they could be able to do some form of magic. I literally couldn't care less about magic in the game, but it's still annoying to me how for the past year we've gotten several packs where they could have done more for children and toddlers, but they outright seem to be choosing not to for no good reason.

    Not to mention sims 4 kids can do laundry. They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.

    But they can’t do do magic.

    A guru told you that? Exactly that?

    Yes. Sim Guru Nick told me that on twitter round about just after the bug of random children calling adult sims to hang out was fixed - I asked him on twitter what my sim kids were asking other kids to nightclubs to play hooky and he said a nightclub an “appropriate venue for children.” I beg your pardon, that was his phrasing. I was shocked. I expected it to be a bug!

    This was in October 2017. I dont have the screenshot anymore but if you search on twitter it can be found

    I found it. To keep things in context, he was explaining that the game chooses from a random list of supported venues. In the game, children were allowed at nightclubs/bars. (They'd have to be in order to go bowling.) He wasn't exactly saying that he thinks nightclubs and bars are appropriate for children.
    Please explain to me the difference between acceptable and appropriate here? When you allow kids somewhere, you thereby consider it appropriate (or I should hope, the alternative would be kind of fishy: yes, we allow it but nooo, of course it’s not appropriate). They created the game and the game lists nightclubs as ‘actually’ acceptable for kids. That’s him exactly saying just that, that he (or at least the creators of the game) considers a nightclub an acceptable (and therefor appropriate) place for kids to hang out. That it is not a bug.

    The difference is context. He was only explaining how it works in the game (and there are reasons.) You're attaching more to his words than what was said.

    Now, I don't know for what reasons nightclubs/bars are allowed, but one possible explanation is that those two venues are where the bowling alleys are placed. (Bowling Stuff had come out some months before.) Because children can bowl in the game= they must be allowed at those venues (in the game.)

    I think the actual bug was children inviting adults out, and vice versa, which I believe was finally fixed. And I never see kids appear autonomously at those two venues, either. (Unless there's a bowling alley, I think?) So that part should no longer be an issue. However, the possibility to take kids to those venues is still enabled for the player so we have that choice. Maybe I want to play a deviant kid. You can send your kids out in the middle of the night, and the game won't tell you it's wrong. It is up to the player to play how he/she wants, set curfews, etc. It gives us some freedom to decide what we think is right and wrong for that particular family instead of forcing everyone into the same playstyle. And I prefer it this way, thank you. :)
    This is the context:













    Also, you reacted to this statement, “They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.”, asking “A guru told you that? Exactly that?” The answer is yes, a guru told her that, exactly that.

    - “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children”
    - Actual tweet: “this venue is actually considered acceptable. Children are allowed at nightclubs.”

    With or without context (which comes down to interpretation), this is what was said.

    Actually, no. Saying that a guru told you "Night clubs are acceptable locations for children," is NOT what SimGuruNick said. That's why context is important. Her statement implied something else, when he was actually only describing the game mechanic. If you can't understand the difference, I'm afraid that I cannot explain it for you. I've already explained it as fully as I can above.

    Paraprashing and taking it out of context changes the meaning and perception entirely.

    Sim Guru Nick says night clubs are considered an acceptable venue. That cannot be disputed and quite frankly I have no energy and far more important things to attend to in real life that argue. I’m not and was not implying he was implying something else: I was discussing what he described was an in game mechanic. I believe in my first reference to this I said he used the word appropriate instead of acceptable and for that I will say we are referencing tweets from two years ago, I don’t have a great memory and right now I have far bigger real life issues as we have just lost a treasured family member so you will forgive my lapse.

    But I am not and have never taken this out of context. In fact the tweets show that! In the context of the fact that isn’t it a bit odd that children can’t do magic but the game thinks it’s okay for two kids to play hooky at a night club - it’s all relevant because by the games design that is a decision made by the devs which is confirmed by them as a feature not a bug and I think that’s a bit odd. Kids can do laundry, they can stay at home all day, they can hang out all night at the night club and arrive home for sun up but the game thinks a magic wand is too old for them.

    That has always been the context I intended the remarks in, I would really appreciate it if people didn’t take my words out of context. Particularly when the trouble has been reached to find the entire conversation that proves my point - the game considers night clubs are acceptable locations for children as it’s on a list. Spoken from a dev himself. And just to be clear I don’t have any moral outrage at this; I just think it’s a tad weird that it’s okay to skip school to hang out a night club when you are a kid but God Forbid you want to want to learn a few spells. Context is key.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,281 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    Well it showns, when there's not even incentive to allow magic for children. Does have some validity by the response, but as a counterargument in some magic-theme creative outlet (Harry Potter for instance) magic wasn't just exclusive to anyone above 12 year old. (Lol, you can't even portray early teens because of giant height transition). Not to mention, it doesn't help for players who been asking for more fun interactions for children. Why not at least include some of it through packs? Been a long time (children SP) since those lil Sims to preoccupy there time on, other than worn-out BG activities.

    Well, can't say I'm surprised. Really, I don't understand why it seems like there is very little desire to do anything for children in anything other that a pack dedicated to them. And it's not like the children in TS4 are super young. If they were meant to be like 6, maybe I could understand it, but the children in TS4 look dang near 10 years old. Surely they could be able to do some form of magic. I literally couldn't care less about magic in the game, but it's still annoying to me how for the past year we've gotten several packs where they could have done more for children and toddlers, but they outright seem to be choosing not to for no good reason.

    Not to mention sims 4 kids can do laundry. They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.

    But they can’t do do magic.

    A guru told you that? Exactly that?

    Yes. Sim Guru Nick told me that on twitter round about just after the bug of random children calling adult sims to hang out was fixed - I asked him on twitter what my sim kids were asking other kids to nightclubs to play hooky and he said a nightclub an “appropriate venue for children.” I beg your pardon, that was his phrasing. I was shocked. I expected it to be a bug!

    This was in October 2017. I dont have the screenshot anymore but if you search on twitter it can be found

    I found it. To keep things in context, he was explaining that the game chooses from a random list of supported venues. In the game, children were allowed at nightclubs/bars. (They'd have to be in order to go bowling.) He wasn't exactly saying that he thinks nightclubs and bars are appropriate for children.
    Please explain to me the difference between acceptable and appropriate here? When you allow kids somewhere, you thereby consider it appropriate (or I should hope, the alternative would be kind of fishy: yes, we allow it but nooo, of course it’s not appropriate). They created the game and the game lists nightclubs as ‘actually’ acceptable for kids. That’s him exactly saying just that, that he (or at least the creators of the game) considers a nightclub an acceptable (and therefor appropriate) place for kids to hang out. That it is not a bug.

    The difference is context. He was only explaining how it works in the game (and there are reasons.) You're attaching more to his words than what was said.

    Now, I don't know for what reasons nightclubs/bars are allowed, but one possible explanation is that those two venues are where the bowling alleys are placed. (Bowling Stuff had come out some months before.) Because children can bowl in the game= they must be allowed at those venues (in the game.)

    I think the actual bug was children inviting adults out, and vice versa, which I believe was finally fixed. And I never see kids appear autonomously at those two venues, either. (Unless there's a bowling alley, I think?) So that part should no longer be an issue. However, the possibility to take kids to those venues is still enabled for the player so we have that choice. Maybe I want to play a deviant kid. You can send your kids out in the middle of the night, and the game won't tell you it's wrong. It is up to the player to play how he/she wants, set curfews, etc. It gives us some freedom to decide what we think is right and wrong for that particular family instead of forcing everyone into the same playstyle. And I prefer it this way, thank you. :)
    This is the context:













    Also, you reacted to this statement, “They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.”, asking “A guru told you that? Exactly that?” The answer is yes, a guru told her that, exactly that.

    - “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children”
    - Actual tweet: “this venue is actually considered acceptable. Children are allowed at nightclubs.”

    With or without context (which comes down to interpretation), this is what was said.

    Actually, no. Saying that a guru told you "Night clubs are acceptable locations for children," is NOT what SimGuruNick said. That's why context is important. Her statement implied something else, when he was actually only describing the game mechanic. If you can't understand the difference, I'm afraid that I cannot explain it for you. I've already explained it as fully as I can above.

    Paraprashing and taking it out of context changes the meaning and perception entirely.
    If you expect me to see the difference between “Children are allowed at nightclubs” and “night clubs are acceptable locations for children”, you’re right, I don’t. The reason I make a point out of this, is because you sort of suggest MidnightAura made this up and misquoted, she absolutely didn’t. The guru most definitely said what she claimed he said. I get it’s in the game mechanics, but by doing so you appreciate it’s acceptable for kids to hang out there. Again, I don’t mind as long as I’m the one deciding if they go there, but I don’t want to see kids there when I visit a nightclub with my (adult) sim. If that’s fixed: good! Then there indeed is no problem anymore.


    THANK YOU!
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 17,290 Member
    Because Sims Freeplay does it better even from 2 years ago:
    "The Sneetches got really quite smart on that day. The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches. And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches. That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars." -Dr. Seuss

    Everyone is a Simmer.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Return to top