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Why isn't TS4 inclusive of family players?

Comments

  • IceyJIceyJ Posts: 3,713 Member
    edited August 27
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    Well it showns, when there's not even incentive to allow magic for children. Does have some validity by the response, but as a counterargument in some magic-theme creative outlet (Harry Potter for instance) magic wasn't just exclusive to anyone above 12 year old. (Lol, you can't even portray early teens because of giant height transition). Not to mention, it doesn't help for players who been asking for more fun interactions for children. Why not at least include some of it through packs? Been a long time (children SP) since those lil Sims to preoccupy there time on, other than worn-out BG activities.

    Well, can't say I'm surprised. Really, I don't understand why it seems like there is very little desire to do anything for children in anything other that a pack dedicated to them. And it's not like the children in TS4 are super young. If they were meant to be like 6, maybe I could understand it, but the children in TS4 look dang near 10 years old. Surely they could be able to do some form of magic. I literally couldn't care less about magic in the game, but it's still annoying to me how for the past year we've gotten several packs where they could have done more for children and toddlers, but they outright seem to be choosing not to for no good reason.

    Not to mention sims 4 kids can do laundry. They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.

    But they can’t do do magic.

    A guru told you that? Exactly that?

    Yes. Sim Guru Nick told me that on twitter round about just after the bug of random children calling adult sims to hang out was fixed - I asked him on twitter what my sim kids were asking other kids to nightclubs to play hooky and he said a nightclub an “appropriate venue for children.” I beg your pardon, that was his phrasing. I was shocked. I expected it to be a bug!

    This was in October 2017. I dont have the screenshot anymore but if you search on twitter it can be found

    I found it. To keep things in context, he was explaining that the game chooses from a random list of supported venues. In the game, children were allowed at nightclubs/bars. (They'd have to be in order to go bowling.) He wasn't exactly saying that he thinks nightclubs and bars are appropriate for children.
    Please explain to me the difference between acceptable and appropriate here? When you allow kids somewhere, you thereby consider it appropriate (or I should hope, the alternative would be kind of fishy: yes, we allow it but nooo, of course it’s not appropriate). They created the game and the game lists nightclubs as ‘actually’ acceptable for kids. That’s him exactly saying just that, that he (or at least the creators of the game) considers a nightclub an acceptable (and therefor appropriate) place for kids to hang out. That it is not a bug.

    The difference is context. He was only explaining how it works in the game (and there are reasons.) You're attaching more to his words than what was said.

    Now, I don't know for what reasons nightclubs/bars are allowed, but one possible explanation is that those two venues are where the bowling alleys are placed. (Bowling Stuff had come out some months before.) Because children can bowl in the game= they must be allowed at those venues (in the game.)

    I think the actual bug was children inviting adults out, and vice versa, which I believe was finally fixed. And I never see kids appear autonomously at those two venues, either. (Unless there's a bowling alley, I think?) So that part should no longer be an issue. However, the possibility to take kids to those venues is still enabled for the player so we have that choice. Maybe I want to play a deviant kid. You can send your kids out in the middle of the night, and the game won't tell you it's wrong. It is up to the player to play how he/she wants, set curfews, etc. It gives us some freedom to decide what we think is right and wrong for that particular family instead of forcing everyone into the same playstyle. And I prefer it this way, thank you. :)
    This is the context:













    Also, you reacted to this statement, “They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.”, asking “A guru told you that? Exactly that?” The answer is yes, a guru told her that, exactly that.

    - “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children”
    - Actual tweet: “this venue is actually considered acceptable. Children are allowed at nightclubs.”

    With or without context (which comes down to interpretation), this is what was said.
    Actually, no. Saying that a guru told you "Night clubs are acceptable locations for children," is NOT what SimGuruNick said. That's why context is important. Her statement implied something else, when he was actually only describing the game mechanic. If you can't understand the difference, I'm afraid that I cannot explain it for you. I've already explained it as fully as I can above.

    Paraprashing and taking it out of context changes the meaning and perception entirely.
    If you expect me to see the difference between “Children are allowed at nightclubs” and “night clubs are acceptable locations for children”, you’re right, I don’t. The reason I make a point out of this, is because you sort of suggest MidnightAura made this up and misquoted, she absolutely didn’t. The guru most definitely said what she claimed he said. I get it’s in the game mechanics, but by doing so you appreciate it’s acceptable for kids to hang out there. Again, I don’t mind as long as I’m the one deciding if they go there, but I don’t want to see kids there when I visit a nightclub with my (adult) sim. If that’s fixed: good! Then there indeed is no problem anymore.

    I didn't suggest that she made it up, but that she paraphrased and did not quote him directly. So, the guru most definitely did not say what she said because the meaning was lost after it was taken out of context and paraphrased. You don't understand the meaning of context; that's fine.

    But I agree that there is no problem since it was fixed long ago. There was no need to bring up a 2 year old bug in the first place.
  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,776 Member
    edited August 27
    Well, skimming over a chain of replies, one thing is certain is by design. Don't think they're oblivious to the missing flag that forbids children coming, though I would suspect is due the lack of effort to just code it in. Just like with anything, they forget to sew the last patch, that as a result breaks a immersion to the detail that blatantly is missing.

    People are fine that they can send their children over for whatever reason (their story). Though, when by default children are being asked by other sims, it makes it look like it's a norm and get disturbed.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    @DragonCat159 Well worded. :)
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  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,282 Member
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    Well it showns, when there's not even incentive to allow magic for children. Does have some validity by the response, but as a counterargument in some magic-theme creative outlet (Harry Potter for instance) magic wasn't just exclusive to anyone above 12 year old. (Lol, you can't even portray early teens because of giant height transition). Not to mention, it doesn't help for players who been asking for more fun interactions for children. Why not at least include some of it through packs? Been a long time (children SP) since those lil Sims to preoccupy there time on, other than worn-out BG activities.

    Well, can't say I'm surprised. Really, I don't understand why it seems like there is very little desire to do anything for children in anything other that a pack dedicated to them. And it's not like the children in TS4 are super young. If they were meant to be like 6, maybe I could understand it, but the children in TS4 look dang near 10 years old. Surely they could be able to do some form of magic. I literally couldn't care less about magic in the game, but it's still annoying to me how for the past year we've gotten several packs where they could have done more for children and toddlers, but they outright seem to be choosing not to for no good reason.

    Not to mention sims 4 kids can do laundry. They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.

    But they can’t do do magic.

    A guru told you that? Exactly that?

    Yes. Sim Guru Nick told me that on twitter round about just after the bug of random children calling adult sims to hang out was fixed - I asked him on twitter what my sim kids were asking other kids to nightclubs to play hooky and he said a nightclub an “appropriate venue for children.” I beg your pardon, that was his phrasing. I was shocked. I expected it to be a bug!

    This was in October 2017. I dont have the screenshot anymore but if you search on twitter it can be found

    I found it. To keep things in context, he was explaining that the game chooses from a random list of supported venues. In the game, children were allowed at nightclubs/bars. (They'd have to be in order to go bowling.) He wasn't exactly saying that he thinks nightclubs and bars are appropriate for children.
    Please explain to me the difference between acceptable and appropriate here? When you allow kids somewhere, you thereby consider it appropriate (or I should hope, the alternative would be kind of fishy: yes, we allow it but nooo, of course it’s not appropriate). They created the game and the game lists nightclubs as ‘actually’ acceptable for kids. That’s him exactly saying just that, that he (or at least the creators of the game) considers a nightclub an acceptable (and therefor appropriate) place for kids to hang out. That it is not a bug.

    The difference is context. He was only explaining how it works in the game (and there are reasons.) You're attaching more to his words than what was said.

    Now, I don't know for what reasons nightclubs/bars are allowed, but one possible explanation is that those two venues are where the bowling alleys are placed. (Bowling Stuff had come out some months before.) Because children can bowl in the game= they must be allowed at those venues (in the game.)

    I think the actual bug was children inviting adults out, and vice versa, which I believe was finally fixed. And I never see kids appear autonomously at those two venues, either. (Unless there's a bowling alley, I think?) So that part should no longer be an issue. However, the possibility to take kids to those venues is still enabled for the player so we have that choice. Maybe I want to play a deviant kid. You can send your kids out in the middle of the night, and the game won't tell you it's wrong. It is up to the player to play how he/she wants, set curfews, etc. It gives us some freedom to decide what we think is right and wrong for that particular family instead of forcing everyone into the same playstyle. And I prefer it this way, thank you. :)
    This is the context:













    Also, you reacted to this statement, “They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.”, asking “A guru told you that? Exactly that?” The answer is yes, a guru told her that, exactly that.

    - “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children”
    - Actual tweet: “this venue is actually considered acceptable. Children are allowed at nightclubs.”

    With or without context (which comes down to interpretation), this is what was said.
    Actually, no. Saying that a guru told you "Night clubs are acceptable locations for children," is NOT what SimGuruNick said. That's why context is important. Her statement implied something else, when he was actually only describing the game mechanic. If you can't understand the difference, I'm afraid that I cannot explain it for you. I've already explained it as fully as I can above.

    Paraprashing and taking it out of context changes the meaning and perception entirely.
    If you expect me to see the difference between “Children are allowed at nightclubs” and “night clubs are acceptable locations for children”, you’re right, I don’t. The reason I make a point out of this, is because you sort of suggest MidnightAura made this up and misquoted, she absolutely didn’t. The guru most definitely said what she claimed he said. I get it’s in the game mechanics, but by doing so you appreciate it’s acceptable for kids to hang out there. Again, I don’t mind as long as I’m the one deciding if they go there, but I don’t want to see kids there when I visit a nightclub with my (adult) sim. If that’s fixed: good! Then there indeed is no problem anymore.

    I didn't suggest that she made it up, but that she paraphrased and did not quote him directly. So, the guru most definitely did not say what she said because the meaning was lost after it was taken out of context and paraphrased. You don't understand the meaning of context; that's fine.

    But I agree that there is no problem since it was fixed long ago. There was no need to bring up a 2 year old bug in the first place.

    I wish you would read my posts.

    It was not taken out of context. See my last post.
    It’s also not a bug, as confirmed by the guru himself!!!!!!


  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 7,888 Member
    The problem in this thread about all this for me wasn't about whether children could go or not. You can definitely send them. It's coded in the game that you can send them.. and that is what is wanted by many simmers who want choice in their sims lives to send them where we want to send them. Do people actually want to make these places off limits for your own played sims and for other simmers that would want the choice to send them there for their own stories? If you don't want to send them you don't have too you have that choice.

    I guess they also get invites to them although I haven't seen one in awhile so I'm not sure there. If they get invites again it's because they can actually go there and you can say no. So yes it wasn't a bug that they would get invited, but it also wasn't some big horrendous problem either, unless you chose to see it as a problem even if you can say no to the invitation... and that's opinion that those invites are a problem. Children are allowed by the game to be there if you want but programmed to not just show up on their own. I wouldn't care personally if they took out this option or not. I rarely pay attention to any invitations my sims get.

    The bug part is that they will not show up autonomously to these lots and it kept being indicated in this thread that they are actually showing up autonomously and bellying up to the bar. People shuffled together the two problems as one. If you are actually having children show up at your bars and lounges autonomously you should report it.. it is a bug.
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  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,282 Member
    edited August 27
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    The problem in this thread about all this for me wasn't about whether children could go or not. You can definitely send them. It's coded in the game that you can send them.. and that is what is wanted by many simmers who want choice in their sims lives to send them where we want to send them. Do people actually want to make these places off limits for your own played sims and for other simmers that would want the choice to send them there for their own stories? If you don't want to send them you don't have too you have that choice.

    I guess they also get invites to them although I haven't seen one in awhile so I'm not sure there. If they get invites again it's because they can actually go there and you can say no. So yes it wasn't a bug that they would get invited, but it also wasn't some big horrendous problem either, unless you chose to see it as a problem even if you can say no to the invitation... and that's opinion that those invites are a problem. Children are allowed by the game to be there if you want but programmed to not just show up on their own. I wouldn't care personally if they took out this option or not. I rarely pay attention to any invitations my sims get.

    The bug part is that they will not show up autonomously to these lots and it kept being indicated in this thread that they are actually showing up autonomously and bellying up to the bar. People shuffled together the two problems as one. If you are actually having children show up at your bars and lounges autonomously you should report it.. it is a bug.

    I initially mentioned this not to discuss if it’s a bug or not. Children don’t show up at night clubs randomly. According to a sim Guru it’s acceptable if a child invites another child to a night club. Say to play hooky from school THATS A FACT

    I mentioned it in the context of children are unable to do magic but they can do other adult activities like go to a night club, they can stay home alone all day without the social worker caring, they can do the laundry. So In that context it’s a little unusual they aren’t considered old enough to have a magic wand but it’s fine for them to cut school to hang out at an adult venue. The morals behind it and if people want to argue if it’s a bug is neither here nor there.

  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 7,888 Member
    edited August 27
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    The problem in this thread about all this for me wasn't about whether children could go or not. You can definitely send them. It's coded in the game that you can send them.. and that is what is wanted by many simmers who want choice in their sims lives to send them where we want to send them. Do people actually want to make these places off limits for your own played sims and for other simmers that would want the choice to send them there for their own stories? If you don't want to send them you don't have too you have that choice.

    I guess they also get invites to them although I haven't seen one in awhile so I'm not sure there. If they get invites again it's because they can actually go there and you can say no. So yes it wasn't a bug that they would get invited, but it also wasn't some big horrendous problem either, unless you chose to see it as a problem even if you can say no to the invitation... and that's opinion that those invites are a problem. Children are allowed by the game to be there if you want but programmed to not just show up on their own. I wouldn't care personally if they took out this option or not. I rarely pay attention to any invitations my sims get.

    The bug part is that they will not show up autonomously to these lots and it kept being indicated in this thread that they are actually showing up autonomously and bellying up to the bar. People shuffled together the two problems as one. If you are actually having children show up at your bars and lounges autonomously you should report it.. it is a bug.

    I initially mentioned this not to discuss if it’s a bug or not. Children don’t show up at night clubs randomly. According to a sim Guru it’s acceptable if a child invites another child to a night club. Say to play hooky from school THATS A FACT

    I mentioned it in the context of children are unable to do magic but they can do other adult activities like go to a night club, they can stay home alone all day without the social worker caring, they can do the laundry. So In that context it’s a little unusual they aren’t considered old enough to have a magic wand but it’s fine for them to cut school to hang out at an adult venue. The morals behind it and if people want to argue if it’s a bug is neither here nor there.

    And what you said is just fine to me. It's your opinion. The only reason I replied in this thread in the first place was because of the mixing of the two issues and spreading of misinformation (not by you) that I mentioned before.
    The only thing I know about the up coming pack having to do with kids is according to SimGuruNinja is :
    "Teens and older can cast spells. But there's a bit for kids to discover as well. (And multi-generational spellcasters can get various little bonuses too)"
    It sounds like there are "things to discover" so they might get more game play in this pack than vampire children did but maybe not. It's a wait and see to find out what that is. As to wielding wands and getting magical powers it is not as simple as having children get a phone invite or going to a venue. There would be a lot of animation involved so the two things aren't comparable in my mind. Yes they can do laundry that's great. I think a few little spells just for children would have been wonderful also but I would not expect full out animation on an adult level for children. I have some sim children that I would love to have magical powers on.. especially telekinesis and frankly intend on getting a mod to do it when this game is over if it never comes to the game.
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    Put 'em together and what have you got?
    Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 896 Member
    Okay, to go back to the discussion about what SGNinja said: I think the information missing there is: SGN confirming that a mechanic is acceptable in game doesn't mean that SGN thinks it's acceptable on a personal level. Someone, somewhere, made the decision that nightclubs are a place that is okay for kids to go heng out at during school hours. We don't know who made the decision and ultimately it doesn't matter.

    It's a matter of opinion whether it is or isn't okay and a matter of how one sees a nightclub (no, not everyone sees them as strictly adult places at all times of the day), which I think was said enough here.

    As for the contrast to kids not being able to become full-fledged spellcasters, that's again a matter of opinion.
    We don't know yet whether they'll be able to go to the Realm at all, we don't know what things they will be able to do (when they carry the magical bloodline). We do know that they will have *something* to do, just not everything that a Teen+ Sim can. Just like they're able to go to a place where adults do adult activities, but the kids can't actually do those activities.
    And "going to a night club" is, as I said before, not an adult activity all by itself, at least not to everyone. It's a matter of environment and point of view and personal experience (see my mentions of clubs like that being used for kid-friendly discos). Bringing in morals is unnecessary and honestly, sounds like an attempt to shame people for coming from an environment and experience that is different to yours.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,282 Member
    edited August 27
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    The problem in this thread about all this for me wasn't about whether children could go or not. You can definitely send them. It's coded in the game that you can send them.. and that is what is wanted by many simmers who want choice in their sims lives to send them where we want to send them. Do people actually want to make these places off limits for your own played sims and for other simmers that would want the choice to send them there for their own stories? If you don't want to send them you don't have too you have that choice.

    I guess they also get invites to them although I haven't seen one in awhile so I'm not sure there. If they get invites again it's because they can actually go there and you can say no. So yes it wasn't a bug that they would get invited, but it also wasn't some big horrendous problem either, unless you chose to see it as a problem even if you can say no to the invitation... and that's opinion that those invites are a problem. Children are allowed by the game to be there if you want but programmed to not just show up on their own. I wouldn't care personally if they took out this option or not. I rarely pay attention to any invitations my sims get.

    The bug part is that they will not show up autonomously to these lots and it kept being indicated in this thread that they are actually showing up autonomously and bellying up to the bar. People shuffled together the two problems as one. If you are actually having children show up at your bars and lounges autonomously you should report it.. it is a bug.

    I initially mentioned this not to discuss if it’s a bug or not. Children don’t show up at night clubs randomly. According to a sim Guru it’s acceptable if a child invites another child to a night club. Say to play hooky from school THATS A FACT

    I mentioned it in the context of children are unable to do magic but they can do other adult activities like go to a night club, they can stay home alone all day without the social worker caring, they can do the laundry. So In that context it’s a little unusual they aren’t considered old enough to have a magic wand but it’s fine for them to cut school to hang out at an adult venue. The morals behind it and if people want to argue if it’s a bug is neither here nor there.

    And what you said is just fine to me. The only reason I replied in this thread in the first place was because of the mixing of the two issues and spreading of misinformation (not by you) that I mentioned before. .

    Thank you for saying this. I really dislike when people (not saying you) are calling me a liar and since apparently the context I mentioned it in as an example, some people are sticking their fingers in their ears and going: “La la la la la” and ignoring it, I feel I have to repeat for those who haven’t read the full thread.

    I agree there’s a huge animation difference between a kid inviting another to a night club and them doing magic spells. The latter which will require additional animation I assume. I think in this instance it would have been better for the Gurus to just admit that it’s too much for them to do. (And I’m not going to comment on what I think of that) as opposed to implying children are too young to learn magic. At least I believe that’s what was implied.

    Because I find it a very weird world where they can’t learn magic but can live like little mini adults. Especially when so many magic/fantasy themed books/movies are aimed at children. But like you say, perhaps children will have something for them. I love the Sims 1 Makin Magic and I really appreciate that children could learn magic in that game so in that sense, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that children could have some magical element. But alas it’s a case of wait and see.
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 255 Member
    Please dont get this thread closed you guys. I like hearing about what other family players are interested in. And please dont encourage the gurus to remove more content or features that can clearly be ignored. I hang out at all the wee hours of the night with my kids on the sims because it's a "video game" so I never thought twice about rather or not it's an appropriate place for kids, because there is clearly nothing inappropriate happening in the sims.(ever). They dance sing and have fun together. I would be upset if the game forced me to get my kids home at a certain time or stopped me from bringing them where I want just because some people couldn't ignore the invite or not take them if they didn't want to.

    Some complainers already got my vampire break ins taken away. (If it's still there it never happened to me in like a year) I'm still salty about that because now I have no use for the garlic I use to like guarding sims and my house with. :'(
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 18,163 Member
    Please dont get this thread closed you guys. I like hearing about what other family players are interested in. And please dont encourage the gurus to remove more content or features that can clearly be ignored. I hang out at all the wee hours of the night with my kids on the sims because it's a "video game" so I never thought twice about rather or not it's an appropriate place for kids, because there is clearly nothing inappropriate happening in the sims.(ever). They dance sing and have fun together. I would be upset if the game forced me to get my kids home at a certain time or stopped me from bringing them where I want just because some people couldn't ignore the invite or not take them if they didn't want to.

    Some complainers already got my vampire break ins taken away. (If it's still there it never happened to me in like a year) I'm still salty about that because now I have no use for the garlic I use to like guarding sims and my house with. :'(

    I feel like kid npc's shouldn't go there by themselves but when the player takes them there, there should be no problem. Pretty sure that's how it worked on TS3 and TS2.
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  • SimsLovinLycanSimsLovinLycan Posts: 1,421 Member
    In my eyes, family players have still gotten it better than supernatural players over the course of this game's lifetime. Family players have gotten two stuff packs of things for the little ones and a game pack with expanded family play, Toddlers were added for FREE with (in my opinion) the best gameplay for that lifestage in the history of the game (Toddlers in beds, not cribs...'nuff said) plus a stuff pack devoted to doing the laundry, and most of the packs in general have centered around everyday activities and situations that easily add oodles of options to the things you can do with and for an average sim family (bowling, ice skating, going to the beach, joining clubs, getting a pet, etc.). It's come chopped up into lots of pieces, but for all of your normal sitcom family needs, it's there. Sure, Children and Teens could use some more age-specific interactions and Granny needs something special to do other than getting wiped out every time she goes for a jog, but that's minor compared to all the stuff that you DO have to play with while you wait.

    Supernatural players? We got Ghosts with the pool patch and Aliens in March 2015. Then, we had to wait from 2015 to 2017 to get Vampires (with Plant Sims added in "Cool Kitchen Stuff" as nothing more than a temporary status effect, mind you), then from 2017 to 2019 for Mermaids (frickin' Mermaids, instead of a core supernatural, like Werewolves or Zombies), and we can count ourselves lucky to finally be getting Witches/Casters/Mages this year too after little Susie finally got her wish to make a proper Disney Princess household granted!!

    And Builders? They'd been waiting FOREVER for terrain tools and better foundation management before they finally got those things, and are still waiting on other important features, like staircases that aren't the standard straight ones and the ability to PAINT THE CEILING SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHITE!!! And you think "Object Babies" are bad? Builders have been cheated out of being able to set the lot sizes and lot density of the game's worlds or even a Create-A-World feature and stuck with tiny worlds with a handful of pre-sized lots. Heck, you can't even start a save file without making a sim and dumping him off on a lot first, and WAY too many of the existing lots (especially the largest ones) are monopolized by pre-made houses that you have to demolish first to actually build on that land. And don't even get me started on the apartment debacle...

    So, are Family players missing stuff too? Yeah. But there are groups of players who have even more stuff missing and have had to wait longer to get most of the things they need to make the most of THEIR gameplay experience. Y'all ain't special.
    There is a song I hear, a melody from the past...
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,467 Member
    edited August 28
    In my eyes, family players have still gotten it better than supernatural players over the course of this game's lifetime. Family players have gotten two stuff packs of things for the little ones and a game pack with expanded family play, Toddlers were added for FREE with (in my opinion) the best gameplay for that lifestage in the history of the game (Toddlers in beds, not cribs...'nuff said) plus a stuff pack devoted to doing the laundry, and most of the packs in general have centered around everyday activities and situations that easily add oodles of options to the things you can do with and for an average sim family (bowling, ice skating, going to the beach, joining clubs, getting a pet, etc.). It's come chopped up into lots of pieces, but for all of your normal sitcom family needs, it's there. Sure, Children and Teens could use some more age-specific interactions and Granny needs something special to do other than getting wiped out every time she goes for a jog, but that's minor compared to all the stuff that you DO have to play with while you wait.

    Supernatural players? We got Ghosts with the pool patch and Aliens in March 2015. Then, we had to wait from 2015 to 2017 to get Vampires (with Plant Sims added in "Cool Kitchen Stuff" as nothing more than a temporary status effect, mind you), then from 2017 to 2019 for Mermaids (frickin' Mermaids, instead of a core supernatural, like Werewolves or Zombies), and we can count ourselves lucky to finally be getting Witches/Casters/Mages this year too after little Susie finally got her wish to make a proper Disney Princess household granted!!

    And Builders? They'd been waiting FOREVER for terrain tools and better foundation management before they finally got those things, and are still waiting on other important features, like staircases that aren't the standard straight ones and the ability to PAINT THE CEILING SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHITE!!! And you think "Object Babies" are bad? Builders have been cheated out of being able to set the lot sizes and lot density of the game's worlds or even a Create-A-World feature and stuck with tiny worlds with a handful of pre-sized lots. Heck, you can't even start a save file without making a sim and dumping him off on a lot first, and WAY too many of the existing lots (especially the largest ones) are monopolized by pre-made houses that you have to demolish first to actually build on that land. And don't even get me started on the apartment debacle...

    So, are Family players missing stuff too? Yeah. But there are groups of players who have even more stuff missing and have had to wait longer to get most of the things they need to make the most of THEIR gameplay experience. Y'all ain't special.
    The toddlers are quite good but not because they sleep in beds instead of cribs. They’re the best because they have personality based gameplay. As do vampires and hopefully witches in the near future. So I don’t fully agree family players are better off in general than supernatural fans. One could argue if laundry can be considered family play, I’d say that’s playing housemaking. Besides, family players are fully entitled to complain, even when Sims 4 lacks in so many other areas. I don’t think anyone feels special here.

    (@MidnightAura, you’re 100% right, simple as that)
  • SimsLovinLycanSimsLovinLycan Posts: 1,421 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    In my eyes, family players have still gotten it better than supernatural players over the course of this game's lifetime. Family players have gotten two stuff packs of things for the little ones and a game pack with expanded family play, Toddlers were added for FREE with (in my opinion) the best gameplay for that lifestage in the history of the game (Toddlers in beds, not cribs...'nuff said) plus a stuff pack devoted to doing the laundry, and most of the packs in general have centered around everyday activities and situations that easily add oodles of options to the things you can do with and for an average sim family (bowling, ice skating, going to the beach, joining clubs, getting a pet, etc.). It's come chopped up into lots of pieces, but for all of your normal sitcom family needs, it's there. Sure, Children and Teens could use some more age-specific interactions and Granny needs something special to do other than getting wiped out every time she goes for a jog, but that's minor compared to all the stuff that you DO have to play with while you wait.

    Supernatural players? We got Ghosts with the pool patch and Aliens in March 2015. Then, we had to wait from 2015 to 2017 to get Vampires (with Plant Sims added in "Cool Kitchen Stuff" as nothing more than a temporary status effect, mind you), then from 2017 to 2019 for Mermaids (frickin' Mermaids, instead of a core supernatural, like Werewolves or Zombies), and we can count ourselves lucky to finally be getting Witches/Casters/Mages this year too after little Susie finally got her wish to make a proper Disney Princess household granted!!

    And Builders? They'd been waiting FOREVER for terrain tools and better foundation management before they finally got those things, and are still waiting on other important features, like staircases that aren't the standard straight ones and the ability to PAINT THE CEILING SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHITE!!! And you think "Object Babies" are bad? Builders have been cheated out of being able to set the lot sizes and lot density of the game's worlds or even a Create-A-World feature and stuck with tiny worlds with a handful of pre-sized lots. Heck, you can't even start a save file without making a sim and dumping him off on a lot first, and WAY too many of the existing lots (especially the largest ones) are monopolized by pre-made houses that you have to demolish first to actually build on that land. And don't even get me started on the apartment debacle...

    So, are Family players missing stuff too? Yeah. But there are groups of players who have even more stuff missing and have had to wait longer to get most of the things they need to make the most of THEIR gameplay experience. Y'all ain't special.
    The toddlers are quite good but not because they sleep in beds instead of cribs. They’re the best because they have personality based gameplay. As do vampires and hopefully witches in the near future. So I don’t fully agree family players are better off in general than supernatural fans. One could argue if laundry can be considered family play, I’d say that’s playing housemaking. Besides, family players are fully entitled to complain, even when Sims 4 lacks in so many other areas. I don’t think anyone feels special here.

    (@MidnightAura, you’re 100% right, simple as that)

    Of course, the Toddlers' personalities and general playability is the major improvement, no doubt. But, not having to pull them out of a crib every time they have to use the potty or just wake up in the morning is a huge quality of life improvement, which is why I mentioned it.

    While I do agree that this game is lacking a lot in general that previous versions had, I have to disagree with you about Family players not being any better off than Supernatural players, simply because Supernatural players have had to endure much longer content droughts. Party oriented items in the various packs can easily be used for weddings and kids' birthday parties (because, really, ask any 10-year-old who is not allergic to chocolate if they'd enjoy a chocolate fountain at their birthday party, you can bet they'd be like, "Heck YEAH! Bring it!!"), you can take the family out bowling or ice skating and have some fun family moments with that, you can enjoy a family karaoke night or a day at the pool, you can enjoy cleaning up after those ungreatful little heathens when they leave their clothes all over the floor (or enjoy forcing them to clean up their own dirty underoos for a change while Mommy has a "Me Day" at the spa because you don't have to worry about those annoying social workers butting in anymore...thank goodness), the back yard pack is all about the stuff families do in the back yard in summertime, the movie pack is perfect for family movie nights, and on and on.

    But, if you're specifically looking for magical or sci-fi stuff...the developers have actually been pretty stingy. Even if you count things like the scientist career, the astronaut career, the trash can that turns the plates you don't wanna wash into money (...which would be amazing in real life...), and the stripped-down plant sim status effect. True life states have been separated by years at a time and "Strangerville" is the first pack with serious sci-fi elements since "Get to Work." The fact that we have to count getting "Strangerville," Mermaids, and Magic all in one year as a miraculous occurrence is a pretty telling sign as to just how neglected Supernatural gameplay has been throughout this game's run. We still don't have robotic sims of any stripe, Werewolves, proper Plant Sims, Zombies, or Fairies...five years into the game's run. For comparison, TS2 added a new supernatural lifestate with basically every expansion pack, and TS3 had a full expansion pack devoted to the supernatural, a "Seasons" pack that included aliens, a world with pet dragons included, unicorns in the "Pets" pack, imaginary friend dolls that magically come to life, and a "University" pack that included plant sims. So, next to both the previous two entries and Family players through the run of this game, Supernatural players have been starving for content relevant to our gameplay preferences and straight-up shafted for years at a time.

    Face it, between the two, Family players just have been given more to work with than Supernatural players have. That's a fact.
    There is a song I hear, a melody from the past...
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    When I woke for the first time, when I slept for the last.
  • silentcyborgsilentcyborg Posts: 114 Member
    Face it, between the two, Family players just have been given more to work with than Supernatural players have. That's a fact.

    But what if you like playing supernatural families :'( :'( ...? Worst of both worlds?

    Vampires is a really cool pack, but there's barely anything for kids and toddlers, unfortunately. Strangerville was 'interesting' but there were no reactions or consequences from my toddlers/kids when their mum became possessed (even when she stood over their beds creepily). In IL there's barely any non-supernatural gameplay, let alone supernatural family play - would've loved to have made a merkid sim. Although, tbf, I can't remember if alien kids can do anything in GTW, but there's that male pregnancy mechanic which helps supernatural family play... kinda...
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,467 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    In my eyes, family players have still gotten it better than supernatural players over the course of this game's lifetime. Family players have gotten two stuff packs of things for the little ones and a game pack with expanded family play, Toddlers were added for FREE with (in my opinion) the best gameplay for that lifestage in the history of the game (Toddlers in beds, not cribs...'nuff said) plus a stuff pack devoted to doing the laundry, and most of the packs in general have centered around everyday activities and situations that easily add oodles of options to the things you can do with and for an average sim family (bowling, ice skating, going to the beach, joining clubs, getting a pet, etc.). It's come chopped up into lots of pieces, but for all of your normal sitcom family needs, it's there. Sure, Children and Teens could use some more age-specific interactions and Granny needs something special to do other than getting wiped out every time she goes for a jog, but that's minor compared to all the stuff that you DO have to play with while you wait.

    Supernatural players? We got Ghosts with the pool patch and Aliens in March 2015. Then, we had to wait from 2015 to 2017 to get Vampires (with Plant Sims added in "Cool Kitchen Stuff" as nothing more than a temporary status effect, mind you), then from 2017 to 2019 for Mermaids (frickin' Mermaids, instead of a core supernatural, like Werewolves or Zombies), and we can count ourselves lucky to finally be getting Witches/Casters/Mages this year too after little Susie finally got her wish to make a proper Disney Princess household granted!!

    And Builders? They'd been waiting FOREVER for terrain tools and better foundation management before they finally got those things, and are still waiting on other important features, like staircases that aren't the standard straight ones and the ability to PAINT THE CEILING SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHITE!!! And you think "Object Babies" are bad? Builders have been cheated out of being able to set the lot sizes and lot density of the game's worlds or even a Create-A-World feature and stuck with tiny worlds with a handful of pre-sized lots. Heck, you can't even start a save file without making a sim and dumping him off on a lot first, and WAY too many of the existing lots (especially the largest ones) are monopolized by pre-made houses that you have to demolish first to actually build on that land. And don't even get me started on the apartment debacle...

    So, are Family players missing stuff too? Yeah. But there are groups of players who have even more stuff missing and have had to wait longer to get most of the things they need to make the most of THEIR gameplay experience. Y'all ain't special.
    The toddlers are quite good but not because they sleep in beds instead of cribs. They’re the best because they have personality based gameplay. As do vampires and hopefully witches in the near future. So I don’t fully agree family players are better off in general than supernatural fans. One could argue if laundry can be considered family play, I’d say that’s playing housemaking. Besides, family players are fully entitled to complain, even when Sims 4 lacks in so many other areas. I don’t think anyone feels special here.

    (@MidnightAura, you’re 100% right, simple as that)

    Of course, the Toddlers' personalities and general playability is the major improvement, no doubt. But, not having to pull them out of a crib every time they have to use the potty or just wake up in the morning is a huge quality of life improvement, which is why I mentioned it.

    While I do agree that this game is lacking a lot in general that previous versions had, I have to disagree with you about Family players not being any better off than Supernatural players, simply because Supernatural players have had to endure much longer content droughts. Party oriented items in the various packs can easily be used for weddings and kids' birthday parties (because, really, ask any 10-year-old who is not allergic to chocolate if they'd enjoy a chocolate fountain at their birthday party, you can bet they'd be like, "Heck YEAH! Bring it!!"), you can take the family out bowling or ice skating and have some fun family moments with that, you can enjoy a family karaoke night or a day at the pool, you can enjoy cleaning up after those ungreatful little heathens when they leave their clothes all over the floor (or enjoy forcing them to clean up their own dirty underoos for a change while Mommy has a "Me Day" at the spa because you don't have to worry about those annoying social workers butting in anymore...thank goodness), the back yard pack is all about the stuff families do in the back yard in summertime, the movie pack is perfect for family movie nights, and on and on.

    But, if you're specifically looking for magical or sci-fi stuff...the developers have actually been pretty stingy. Even if you count things like the scientist career, the astronaut career, the trash can that turns the plates you don't wanna wash into money (...which would be amazing in real life...), and the stripped-down plant sim status effect. True life states have been separated by years at a time and "Strangerville" is the first pack with serious sci-fi elements since "Get to Work." The fact that we have to count getting "Strangerville," Mermaids, and Magic all in one year as a miraculous occurrence is a pretty telling sign as to just how neglected Supernatural gameplay has been throughout this game's run. We still don't have robotic sims of any stripe, Werewolves, proper Plant Sims, Zombies, or Fairies...five years into the game's run. For comparison, TS2 added a new supernatural lifestate with basically every expansion pack, and TS3 had a full expansion pack devoted to the supernatural, a "Seasons" pack that included aliens, a world with pet dragons included, unicorns in the "Pets" pack, imaginary friend dolls that magically come to life, and a "University" pack that included plant sims. So, next to both the previous two entries and Family players through the run of this game, Supernatural players have been starving for content relevant to our gameplay preferences and straight-up shafted for years at a time.

    Face it, between the two, Family players just have been given more to work with than Supernatural players have. That's a fact.
    Not for me, I love it my sims in 2 and 3 have to do that. It reminds me of the days I had to do that with my own kids. Get them out of their crib every morning (and afternoon), ”Mooooooommy, I’m awaaaaaaaaake!”, cuddle them for a bit first and then take care of them, after which I’d leave them to their own devices. I actually love having to simulate that part. I love the toddlers in Sims 4, but them being so independent isn’t one of their charms for me. For me them being dependent, slowly learning to do things themselves is what this makes it such an endearing life stage for me. That being said, I’d love a toddler stage where they slowly become more independent in the end. Covering 2-5 years old.

    I do agree with you by the way supernaturals haven’t got a lot or attention so far (I’m more of a supernatural player myself than a family player by the way). The vampires are great but plant sims for instance are laughable. I really hope the magic pack is going to make up for that. If it is I might even buy it.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    @JoAnne65 Earlier life-stages we need:

    1) Newborn (Baby crib “object” we have now)
    2) Infant (Highly dependent and needs a lot of guidance - needs to be placed in a crib for sleeping)
    3) Toddler (More dependent)
    4) Child
    5) Pre-Teen
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    jfIpSFy.png
  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 4,706 Member
    I'm hoping that more might be done for toddlers if we get an educational type pack either with a university or in a general Patch that one doesn't have to pay for. I find toddlers interesting for a bit then age them up, not being the motherly type but see that there is something lacking for those that do enjoy that stage of life.

    I am looking forward to Realm of Magic so will be interested if those kids with the new trait are anything special.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,891 Member
    edited August 28
    IceyJ wrote: »
    IceyJ wrote: »
    Well it showns, when there's not even incentive to allow magic for children. Does have some validity by the response, but as a counterargument in some magic-theme creative outlet (Harry Potter for instance) magic wasn't just exclusive to anyone above 12 year old. (Lol, you can't even portray early teens because of giant height transition). Not to mention, it doesn't help for players who been asking for more fun interactions for children. Why not at least include some of it through packs? Been a long time (children SP) since those lil Sims to preoccupy there time on, other than worn-out BG activities.

    Well, can't say I'm surprised. Really, I don't understand why it seems like there is very little desire to do anything for children in anything other that a pack dedicated to them. And it's not like the children in TS4 are super young. If they were meant to be like 6, maybe I could understand it, but the children in TS4 look dang near 10 years old. Surely they could be able to do some form of magic. I literally couldn't care less about magic in the game, but it's still annoying to me how for the past year we've gotten several packs where they could have done more for children and toddlers, but they outright seem to be choosing not to for no good reason.

    Not to mention sims 4 kids can do laundry. They can stay out all night with no consequence, skip school to hang out at night clubs “as night clubs are acceptable locations for the children” - a guru told me- and they stay home alone all day whilst their parents are off the lot.

    But they can’t do do magic.

    A guru told you that? Exactly that?

    Yes. Sim Guru Nick told me that on twitter round about just after the bug of random children calling adult sims to hang out was fixed - I asked him on twitter what my sim kids were asking other kids to nightclubs to play hooky and he said a nightclub an “appropriate venue for children.” I beg your pardon, that was his phrasing. I was shocked. I expected it to be a bug!

    This was in October 2017. I dont have the screenshot anymore but if you search on twitter it can be found



    I found it. To keep things in context, he was explaining that the game chooses from a random list of supported venues. In the game, children were allowed at nightclubs/bars. (They'd have to be in order to go bowling.) He wasn't exactly saying that he thinks nightclubs and bars are appropriate for children.

    Since this was the game before Bowling way back in 2014, I don't think bowling was in the back of their minds in 2014. If kids no longer wander into the clubs anymore that's great to me, because I thought it was odd of the game instead of sending other Sims like YAs. Since bowling was a stuff pack and SimGuruGraham stated stuff packs were built upon the gameplay the EP or GP teams were never going to do, it doesn't make sense to think they were thinking ahead way back in 2014 of bowling in nightclubs and kids would have to be able to attend since SGGraham had said here somewhere stuff packs contain objects other teams had no intention or time to do.

    So, the reason, in my opinion has already been stated here, it would have taken more work and or more time to program the game to make children Non MiniMe's of the adults. Because that has been the complaint since day one, kids in the game are just shorter adults. So, it's odd they can't do magic, but then as someone already said that would have caused needing more animations and TS4 is built cheap or let's say cheap features so no magic for kids. (my opinion) til they say differently. No scales for kids who happen to be merfolk, cheap. And do plantSims even have kid pods in the ground like older games? Never heard anyone mention how amazing kids are grown in TS4. But what I have seen are complaints of little mini me Sim who can go to bars, soak in hottubs, even when romance is in the air, be flirted with by any Sim under the influence, (went on for years), and can't cook but can do any other adult activity like sit around and talk and talk and talk instead of playing tag or racing outside or playing any 'kid' game. KIds are still the least developed feature in the game and just a means to skill until they become a teen (a larger version of the minime, to get to a goal.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,467 Member
    Hestia wrote: »
    @JoAnne65 Earlier life-stages we need:

    1) Newborn (Baby crib “object” we have now)
    2) Infant (Highly dependent and needs a lot of guidance - needs to be placed in a crib for sleeping)
    3) Toddler (More dependent)
    4) Child
    5) Pre-Teen
    ^ this

    (though I’d love an infant Sims 2 style who you can bath and change and can take for a stroll)

    naar-buiten.jpg

  • EA_RtasEA_Rtas Posts: 2,164 EA Moderator
    Alright folks, I've removed some posts in here that were unnecessarily argumentative and bordered on being insulting to others. If believe someone is violating a rule or attempting to bait/troll please report them and do not derail the thread by calling them out. The moderation team will review it and make the decision ourselves.

    On another note let's keep this thread on topic there's been some off topic discussion in here that is doing the same kind of derailing that the aforementioned argument did so let's reel it back in please.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    edited August 28
    Simburian wrote: »
    I'm hoping that more might be done for toddlers if we get an educational type pack either with a university or in a general Patch that one doesn't have to pay for. I find toddlers interesting for a bit then age them up, not being the motherly type but see that there is something lacking for those that do enjoy that stage of life.

    I am looking forward to Realm of Magic so will be interested if those kids with the new trait are anything special.

    @Simburian A preschool would be cool. Toddlers have the capability of going into Daycare as a rabbit hole. I don't see why not for pre-school. :)

    Homework for toddlers:

    - Make hand paintings ~ Helps increase imagination.
    - Finish reading a picture book with a parent ~ Helps increase imagination and thinking.
    - Complete a coloring book ~ Helps increase imagination.
    - Complete a writing worksheet ~ Helps thinking writing and communication.

    More ideas: Preschool Worksheets & Printables
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Hestia wrote: »
    @JoAnne65 Earlier life-stages we need:

    1) Newborn (Baby crib “object” we have now)
    2) Infant (Highly dependent and needs a lot of guidance - needs to be placed in a crib for sleeping)
    3) Toddler (More dependent)
    4) Child
    5) Pre-Teen
    ^ this

    (though I’d love an infant Sims 2 style who you can bath and change and can take for a stroll)

    naar-buiten.jpg

    @JoAnne65 Taking them out on a stroll would be fantastic. It is already possible for us to take the dog out for a walk or jog, so I absolutely believe that the Sims Studio is very much capable of implementing this.

    I'm thinking, other than carriages, we could have baby carriers.
    Backpack or Front Pack
    best-baby-carrier-baby-bjorn-dad-750x550.jpg?q=75

    Sarong
    batik_lepas__sarong_baby_carrier_1467189693_3556397c.jpg

    Sink baths or bucket baths.
    GUEST_bc9d88b8-0fc3-4bb7-8638-a14e438e6939?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg

    GUEST_fce9ed33-a7f5-41a2-b960-1164b1e8bfaa?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg

    baby_infant_bath_ring_seat_2.jpg

    HTB1wcqUqbsTMeJjSszdq6AEupXas.jpg
    OriginID: hestiah23 | Showcase
    jfIpSFy.png
  • Dakota88Dakota88 Posts: 269 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    Because Sims Freeplay does it better even from 2 years ago:

    I want all of this in my game so much. Why does a mobile game have so much gameplay in their DLCs and TS4 doesn't? :(
  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 7,888 Member
    I do play families.. I don't consider myself a family player like I believe many do in this thread but this iteration has made it possible to enjoy playing them more often. The toddlers are adorable and enjoyable to play with for awhile .. especially in rotation. I guess I'd be the granny type that says I'm done you can have them back now if I had grand kids.

    Personally I wouldn't want them made more dependent.. I even always get the independent trait to make them even more independent so that my parents can have some time to do other life things like prepare for work ect (even if they have to stop now and then to take care of the baby/toddler). They often even get other help in the form of nannies or butlers (or even friends). Making it a very hard time would make me give up playing them all together again.

    What I would like is more options for babies. I'd like to be able to give them a bath especially. I loved the sink bath in Sims 2. I'm not sure free the babies will happen... It would be nice if it would but if there could at least be a way to transfer them to different gameplay objects I'd be more satisfied with that life stage. Also more crib styles and more dressing options. I really hope the newborn/baby time is made better somehow.
    Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
    Put 'em together and what have you got?
    Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
  • GorgeoiousGorgeoious Posts: 87 Member
    My toddler, kid and teen sims need more to do, especially toddlers and kids.
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