Here's the thing... no way am I going to basically buy all the things I've ALREADY spent a ton of money on in Sims 3 just to get some fancier graphics. Nor am I willing to play just a base game with nowhere NEAR the amount of content I am used to having with Sims 3. In order for Sims 4 to make a dent in my pocketbook it's going to have to blow Sims 3 out of the water on several fronts. The first is going to have to be a MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE base game. Weather and Pets are a MUST. Why? Because those things exist in the real world and it is just flat out WEIRD not to have them. Can I choose to not personally own any pets? Of course. But my neighbor is still likely to have a dog, I'm still going to see cats hunting birds in my neighborhood, etc. A world without these things rings hollow and they SHOULD be part of the set up to begin with.
Things like better graphics, bigger neighborhoods, the ability to travel seamlessly between neighborhoods as expansions come out and BETTER AI in the Sims themselves all need to be part of Sims 4 but that alone isn't going to get me to buy it. In order to justify the expense it's just flat out going to have to offer me MORE. So THAT is why Pets and Weather need to be included in the base game. End of story.
^^ This is me, too. I think we can all agree there will have to be some sort of big game-changer like the open neighborhood was for TS3. Plus, EA has upset a lot of fans by jerking them around through this series. They need to prove that they're listening to the fans and are not just interested in releasing lots of half-baked EP's for the sole purpose of making money. We all know they're a business not a charity, but they have GOT to start conveying that they care about the people who give them their hard-earned money.
They didn't just start working on TS4 the day they announced it, so I disagree with the statements that adding weather and pets would take time and would delay the release. I don't know about programming, but it seems that adding weather after the fact would be harder than having it in there from the start. They knew TS4 was coming and they've had plenty of time to include weather and pets.
I, myself, am holding out for a noticeably better base game with customizable weather and a beefed up CAW tool with population controls that don't require a mod. I don't intend to drop a single dime on the sims 4 without those key components. BUT if those are available, I will continue being an ardent fan.
Okay so this is kind of a long post, but I hope you find it worth reading! :-)
I have some thoughts on the concerns voiced here, especially regarding: not wanting these features in the base, there computer not being able to handle it, the cost of development for these features driving up the cost of the base game.
I do agree that Pets and Weather SHOULD be pre-included.
-- On Weather:
They are so basic to life--especially the weather. That's essential to the world around the Sims. I'm not asking for hurricanes, I'm asking for a cloudy, cold, or drizzly day here and there rather than the endless temperate sunshine! I'd love to see snow, of course, but I could understand if they want to limit that to an EP.
There are so many games out there that include weather these days. Weather isn't exclusive to life simulation games--games like Assasin's Creed 3, where you move through large maps of a highly detailed world, include weather--snow and rain. Pretty much nobody is begging for weather in a game like this, and yet it exists! If it was so cost prohibitive, nobody would bother budgeting for it on a game like that.
-- On Pets
Personally, Pets have always been essential to my life, and it's common enough to so many that security questions for website registration and banks include "What is the name of your first/favorite pet?" I understand there's an entirely different level of detail required for the devs and that is something that requires more time and money to produce--onto that in a moment.
-- RE: Those that believe Weather and Pets will keep them from playing the game on their not-brand-spanking-new-computer AND/OR those who just don't plain want these features:
I do think these are valid arguments against inclusion in the base game. However, the fact is the majority of players want these features at some point, enough that they warrant a dedicated expansion pack!
I DO think EA should be try to be inclusive as possible-- why not include these things, with the option to turn it off for the sake of the computer of the user or gameplay preferences? We can turn off reflections for the sake of a lower-spec computer, and we can turn off aging in our gameplay, if we so choose. Why not stuff like Weather or Pets? Even if it is a choice that must be made before you start playing a neighborhood or playing a family, I think that's a way to satisfy all users!
That's in my brain. I'm no developer, so I can be way off in whether or not the off/on option is feasible.
If EA's goal is to reach casual gamers as well as those who are willing to/have the means to throw down for the latest and greatest gaming computer--where there's a will there's a way!
-- On Base Game Cost Being Driven by The Cost to Develop a Base Game with Weather and Pets:
As for base game COST being ridiculous if Weather or Pets were in the base game, because it costs much more money to include - as far as I've researched, the cost of development for games is not at all related to the cost of a base game.
First-- these decisions would have a major impact on the development timeline for the game, so I'm of the opinion that these decisions have already been made. It is a pretty well known fact this game has been in development for at least 4 years (thanks to a dev's leak on twitter back in the day), and decisions as to what the base game should include are made while developing the budget for the game.
A lot of The Sims gamers have been asking for weather and pets in the base game for years, and if they wanted to give us that, they would have planned and budgeted for it, no doubt! They wouldn't have said "We'll put weather and pets in, and charge $80 more dollars than usual for the base game since it will cost us $20 million more to develop it that way."
Again, I'm no expert in the field-- BUT it is my understanding that the planned, standard price for the base game would NOT change if these things were implemented for the Sims 4-- even if the costs would be high for the development.
Here's my logic for that:
The budget for the development of games varies greatly from project to project, within EA, and within other studios. I don't know the numbers, obviously, but let's say Sims 3 base game cost $75-$100 million to develop. Also, let's say a game like Mass Effect 3 (a Action RPG) costs $35 million to develop, The standard game price these days is about $60 US. Both of these games would retail at launch for around that price despite the disparity in the development budget!
Cost is determined to entice gamers to buy. Of course, a for-profit company like EA wants to charge as much as they can, sure, but they only charge as much as they can without alienating/scaring away their target customer!
--
Those are my thoughts regarding this very interesting argument about a richer base game than we've had in The Sims, The Sims 2, and The Sims 3.
-- Just want add that I'm not a big poster on this forum, but I'm a very avid reader and I really appreciate the passionate debates about this game. I love seeing that people adore The Sims as much as I do!
Also, those of you who have been posting on the forum all these years:
It has been said that the SimGurus have been keeping an eye on the discussion happening on all the forums and keeping your wish lists and concerns in mind. Again, I thank you for being so vocal.
It is because of you that, without a doubt, EA/Maxis KNOW what we want and need in our game. I just hope now that they've done their best to give it to us!
Here are the reasons I think weather and Pets should be included
1. Because weather will enhance nearly any Expansion Pack idea in terms of ambiance and game play
2. Pets are usually tossed into one Expansion and forgotten, no further toys, interactions, clothes, collars nothing
3. Temperature is one of those interesting background things that kind of tweaks how you play. In World Adventures having the temp being Hot and your Sims having the possibility of death by heat exhaustion I think would have enhanced the game play in Egypt specifically
4. Pets could evolve right along with our Sims with their interactions increasing over time with each Expansion adding onto game play over time.
“All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.” Terry Pratchett
Here's the thing... no way am I going to basically buy all the things I've ALREADY spent a ton of money on in Sims 3 just to get some fancier graphics. Nor am I willing to play just a base game with nowhere NEAR the amount of content I am used to having with Sims 3. In order for Sims 4 to make a dent in my pocketbook it's going to have to blow Sims 3 out of the water on several fronts. The first is going to have to be a MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE base game. Weather and Pets are a MUST. Why? Because those things exist in the real world and it is just flat out WEIRD not to have them. Can I choose to not personally own any pets? Of course. But my neighbor is still likely to have a dog, I'm still going to see cats hunting birds in my neighborhood, etc. A world without these things rings hollow and they SHOULD be part of the set up to begin with.
Things like better graphics, bigger neighborhoods, the ability to travel seamlessly between neighborhoods as expansions come out and BETTER AI in the Sims themselves all need to be part of Sims 4 but that alone isn't going to get me to buy it. In order to justify the expense it's just flat out going to have to offer me MORE. So THAT is why Pets and Weather need to be included in the base game. End of story.
^^ This is me, too. I think we can all agree there will have to be some sort of big game-changer like the open neighborhood was for TS3. Plus, EA has upset a lot of fans by jerking them around through this series. They need to prove that they're listening to the fans and are not just interested in releasing lots of half-baked EP's for the sole purpose of making money. We all know they're a business not a charity, but they have GOT to start conveying that they care about the people who give them their hard-earned money.
They didn't just start working on TS4 the day they announced it, so I disagree with the statements that adding weather and pets would take time and would delay the release. I don't know about programming, but it seems that adding weather after the fact would be harder than having it in there from the start. They knew TS4 was coming and they've had plenty of time to include weather and pets.
I, myself, am holding out for a noticeably better base game with customizable weather and a beefed up CAW tool with population controls that don't require a mod. I don't intend to drop a single dime on the sims 4 without those key components. BUT if those are available, I will continue being an ardent fan.
Ditto! Bottom line is, EA needs to step up their game. Including weather and pets as base game components would be a huge step in the right direction and one I hope they take.
Here are the reasons I think weather and Pets should be included
1. Because weather will enhance nearly any Expansion Pack idea in terms of ambiance and game play
2. Pets are usually tossed into one Expansion and forgotten, no further toys, interactions, clothes, collars nothing
3. Temperature is one of those interesting background things that kind of tweaks how you play. In World Adventures having the temp being Hot and your Sims having the possibility of death by heat exhaustion I think would have enhanced the game play in Egypt specifically
4. Pets could evolve right along with our Sims with their interactions increasing over time with each Expansion adding onto game play over time.
This! ^^ I really want to be able to see additions/changes/advancements to the pets as time and EPs progress. And yes, specific regional weather that affects our Sims would be fantastic!
They didn't just start working on TS4 the day they announced it, so I disagree with the statements that adding weather and pets would take time and would delay the release. I don't know about programming, but it seems that adding weather after the fact would be harder than having it in there from the start. They knew TS4 was coming and they've had plenty of time to include weather and pets.
With a release date of early 2014, I doubt it would be easy for them to just add it in now. It takes years to make EPs, its not something they can just throw in there last minute (unless we want an unplayable game) - it would most likely be easier for them to add it after the fact because the coding is already there, they don't need to change it around to add in pets and weather. Like others have said they most likely won't add it in the base game because it brings in more money to sell them all separately.
I didn't read the whole thread, it is very long. But I do believe if EA makes players wait to see rain again or even some snow flurries they aren't going to be happy. I'm not talking about a full blown 'Seasons' EP, but basic weather and playing in puddles, or raking leaves should be in the base game.
Also, I didn't buy the Pets' EP in this game, twice already was enough since gameplay interactions in this game seems to be even less than what we had in TS1 and TS2.
I wouldn't want pets already in the homes though, nor would I want stray horses blocking my Sims like they do in this game.
But yeah, a 'rare' stray cat and or dog should be in the base game along with meows heard in the distance or barks like we heard in TS2 before Pets was even released..just for the atomosphere.
Things like birds should have to be bought at a local pet shop (no rabbit hole, please) and then if they want to do something different with Pets the next time, add more animals they haven't done, yet.
Like a baby goat, pet rabbits, whatever, but add a 'stray' dog and or cat now and then. But I don't want to play Pets anymore as it is rather boring.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I agree that the wild animals running and strays running about are a bit on the heavy side. If they could dial that back a bit that would be good. The Wild horses shouldn't be wandering around town because that is just silly. Wild horses are shy of humans and would probably stick to the outsides of towns. The problem from Pets wasn't the addition of the animals it was how many that spontaneously generated and where they were wandering.
“All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.” Terry Pratchett
I really want a base game that runs well with intelligent Sims who have emotional depth and awareness of their surroundings.
If they can't manage that all the bells and whistles in the world can't make me buy TS4. I'd rather they concentrate on the basics rather than try to add so much to a base game.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
Someone said there could be an option to turn off weather and pets.
Someone also said the base game would be a bit more expensive with two more games added to it.
So, why would you spend more money on a base game if you're not even going to use the features included in it?
That's like buying a meal special at a restaurant, but just having the drink.
Even though I may not be getting Sims 4, I don't think those two should be included in the base game. EA wants to make money, so they will probably make them expansion packs, yet again.
I really want a base game that runs well with intelligent Sims who have emotional depth and awareness of their surroundings.
If they can't manage that all the bells and whistles in the world can't make me buy TS4. I'd rather they concentrate on the basics rather than try to add so much to a base game.
I expect more intelligent Sims AND weather and pets (at least basic pets, horses should probably be part of their own expansion as they DO require a lot)as base game. No, I don't think they should try to cram them in NOW... I EXPECT them to have been part of the base game design from its inception. EA should darn well know better by NOW then to leave them out since they've literally had YEARS of customer complaints about how long it took just to get the Season EP out! Simmers have made it CLEAR for a very long time that basic weather should be something we should be able to EXPECT... not WAIT ages for and then have to shell out more money for all over again. If basic weather is part of base game then that opens up the eventual Seasons-type EP to have TONS more content... winter sports, lodges, summer sports, summer resorts, etc. Ditto with pets. Once the basic critters are in an eventual Pets type expansion can have tons more for us to do with our pets if we're into that and those of us who just like having a family dog around don't have to bother. Personally I think horses should get their own EP as well and should have both Western and English riding styles and events as well as horse racing and a wider range of the types of horses you can have...ones that aren't all the same size regardless of if one is a draft horse and the other an Arabian.
Pets don't really matter to me. They can be in the base game or an EP later on, as long as there are eventually horses in TS4. I wanted them so badly in TS2, and since I really didn't like TS3 and didn't buy the EPs, I never got to enjoy them.
As for weather, it has to be a part of the natural environment of TS4. I just don't see it as a gameplay feature that can be added later. It should be there from the beginning as part of the world our TS4 Sims live in. I won't wait for it again and buy another EP based on weather. I expect it in the base game.
Yes seasons should be with the base game...no to pets.
In both S2 and S3 the strays are too much...in 47 years and all the cities I have lived in I have never seen a horse walking down the street. No pets!
On the other hand most places have 4seasons. Needs to be in base game.
I have no plans to buy S4 but I said the same of S3...but to wait years for seasons is just uncalled for...the sun don't shine year round where most people live.
I really want a base game that runs well with intelligent Sims who have emotional depth and awareness of their surroundings.
If they can't manage that all the bells and whistles in the world can't make me buy TS4. I'd rather they concentrate on the basics rather than try to add so much to a base game.
I expect more intelligent Sims AND weather and pets (at least basic pets, horses should probably be part of their own expansion as they DO require a lot)as base game. No, I don't think they should try to cram them in NOW... I EXPECT them to have been part of the base game design from its inception. EA should darn well know better by NOW then to leave them out since they've literally had YEARS of customer complaints about how long it took just to get the Season EP out! Simmers have made it CLEAR for a very long time that basic weather should be something we should be able to EXPECT... not WAIT ages for and then have to shell out more money for all over again. If basic weather is part of base game then that opens up the eventual Seasons-type EP to have TONS more content... winter sports, lodges, summer sports, summer resorts, etc. Ditto with pets. Once the basic critters are in an eventual Pets type expansion can have tons more for us to do with our pets if we're into that and those of us who just like having a family dog around don't have to bother. Personally I think horses should get their own EP as well and should have both Western and English riding styles and events as well as horse racing and a wider range of the types of horses you can have...ones that aren't all the same size regardless of if one is a draft horse and the other an Arabian.
wow you are asking for a whole lot in one base game. I don't think at least pets should be added. Not everyone wants pets,so why should they pay for something they don't even want, it should be an option as and EP. You then say "well you can turn them off in the game" well why would someone still want to pay for them to be in the base game if they are not going to use them? You also say, you won't be buying the sims 4 if these things are not in the base game, well some of the ones that don't want it in the base game feels the same way as you do, for wanting in the base game.
I agree 100%. I would definitely buy TS4 (provided that my computer could run it) if pets and weather were included in the base game. EA is crazy if they think I'm going to spend my money on TS4 when it's just the same game as TS1, 2, and 3, just with nicer graphics. It's not enough to slap a new label on it, they need to do something else. I don't know why so many people seem to be so against this idea. I guess they like to waste their money.
After 5 years of 11 expansion packs, something must have caused EA to decide to create TS4. It probably as them losing money on the ridiculous amount of EPs. Hopefully they learned their lesson and will include some of the gameplay from Pets, Generations, and Seasons.
I really want a base game that runs well with intellige
nt Sims who have emotional depth and awareness of their surroundings.
If they can't manage that all the bells and whistles in the world can't make me buy TS4. I'd rather they concentrate on the basics rather than try to add so much to a base game.
I agree completely! The game is called the Sims for a reason, and EA needs to focus on improving them first and foremost. They already started turning out decent EPs with a crappy base game. And we ended up with The Sims 3. My hope is that The Sims4 fares much better.
I really want a base game that runs well with intelligent Sims who have emotional depth and awareness of their surroundings.
If they can't manage that all the bells and whistles in the world can't make me buy TS4. I'd rather they concentrate on the basics rather than try to add so much to a base game.
I expect more intelligent Sims AND weather and pets (at least basic pets, horses should probably be part of their own expansion as they DO require a lot)as base game. No, I don't think they should try to cram them in NOW... I EXPECT them to have been part of the base game design from its inception. EA should darn well know better by NOW then to leave them out since they've literally had YEARS of customer complaints about how long it took just to get the Season EP out! Simmers have made it CLEAR for a very long time that basic weather should be something we should be able to EXPECT... not WAIT ages for and then have to shell out more money for all over again. If basic weather is part of base game then that opens up the eventual Seasons-type EP to have TONS more content... winter sports, lodges, summer sports, summer resorts, etc. Ditto with pets. Once the basic critters are in an eventual Pets type expansion can have tons more for us to do with our pets if we're into that and those of us who just like having a family dog around don't have to bother. Personally I think horses should get their own EP as well and should have both Western and English riding styles and events as well as horse racing and a wider range of the types of horses you can have...ones that aren't all the same size regardless of if one is a draft horse and the other an Arabian.
wow you are asking for a whole lot in one base game. I don't think at least pets should be added. Not everyone wants pets,so why should they pay for something they don't even want, it should be an option as and EP. You then say "well you can turn them off in the game" well why would someone still want to pay for them to be in the base game if they are not going to use them? You also say, you won't be buying the sims 4 if these things are not in the base game, well some of the ones that don't want it in the base game feels the same way as you do, for wanting in the base game.
And your point would be...? Even in TS3 there's all sorts of things you "get" whether you want them or not. I didn't want zombies that would eat my garden. But I got them anyway. I'm not a big fan of the repo man but hey he's in the game anyway! I didn't want a ridiculous "attraction system" that results in my Sim constantly being called up for dates by Sims who are married! I sure as heck didn't want a darned "smart phone" my Sims obsessively toy with to the point where I want to smack the bloody thing right out of their hands but hey someone thought that would be a great thing to spend development time and resources on! And here's the kicker... I can't turn any of those things off! And ya know what, annoying as they are, they're not game breakers for me. So I don't really feel even a little bit bad for people who are going to complain about getting pets they don't want WITH the option to turn them off. Sorry, but they really just DO belong in the base game and I'm fine with people who are awful enough to despise animals being able to get rid of them... but I see no reason why they should deprive the rest of us of them.
I think I would rather have the pets and weather come in an expansion, and have a good content, then for them to cut in other areas so that they can fit them in the base game or charge twice as much so that it is all good. I will say that we should not have to wait as long for them to come out, as with the past Sims games (2 and 3)
Edit: One thing I would like added with weather would be power going out he heavy storms, would be the same as a house with no lights, there could even be a fear of the dark trait. I don't think there should be any natural disasters. Or with pets not everyone likes animals, would be fun to have sims that love cats living with a sim that hates them. Along the same lines as the dislikes children trait.
I think I would rather have the pets and weather come in an expansion, and have a good content, then for them to cut in other areas so that they can fit them in the base game or charge twice as much so that it is all good. I will say that we should not have to wait as long for them to come out, as with the past Sims games (2 and 3)
Edit: One thing I would like added with weather would be power going out he heavy storms, would be the same as a house with no lights, there could even be a fear of the dark trait. I don't think there should be any natural disasters. Or with pets not everyone likes animals, would be fun to have sims that love cats living with a sim that hates them. Along the same lines as the dislikes children trait.
I don't want them to include pets and weather at the expense of anything else either. I expect a vastly improved game with Sims 4 over Sims 3 AND I expect it to include weather and pets. I'm not asking them to shoehorn them in at the 11th hour, I expect that they should have added them when they first started planning the game. If they didn't, then that is a HUGE failure on their part. I and many others have already stated that we won't be buying Sims4 unless or until it already has the level of content we want. If that means we have to wait for five or six expansions down the line then that means it'll be that long until EA gets any money from us...and since having to wait that long means we'll be getting the game and EPs used or on sale they won't be getting nearly as MUCH money from us as they would if they'd just do the base game right in the first place. I really do hope EA is getting the message on this.
I do love your idea about power outages during storms though! But if they do that they'll have to code candles and oil lamps differently from other light fixtures. It would be pretty cute seeing our Sims run around in the dark lighting candles when a storm knocks their power out! Or huddling by their fireplaces because now that the power it out it's COLD! LOL
I really want a base game that runs well with intelligent Sims who have emotional depth and awareness of their surroundings.
If they can't manage that all the bells and whistles in the world can't make me buy TS4. I'd rather they concentrate on the basics rather than try to add so much to a base game.
I expect more intelligent Sims AND weather and pets (at least basic pets, horses should probably be part of their own expansion as they DO require a lot)as base game. No, I don't think they should try to cram them in NOW... I EXPECT them to have been part of the base game design from its inception. EA should darn well know better by NOW then to leave them out since they've literally had YEARS of customer complaints about how long it took just to get the Season EP out! Simmers have made it CLEAR for a very long time that basic weather should be something we should be able to EXPECT... not WAIT ages for and then have to shell out more money for all over again. If basic weather is part of base game then that opens up the eventual Seasons-type EP to have TONS more content... winter sports, lodges, summer sports, summer resorts, etc. Ditto with pets. Once the basic critters are in an eventual Pets type expansion can have tons more for us to do with our pets if we're into that and those of us who just like having a family dog around don't have to bother. Personally I think horses should get their own EP as well and should have both Western and English riding styles and events as well as horse racing and a wider range of the types of horses you can have...ones that aren't all the same size regardless of if one is a draft horse and the other an Arabian.
wow you are asking for a whole lot in one base game. I don't think at least pets should be added. Not everyone wants pets,so why should they pay for something they don't even want, it should be an option as and EP. You then say "well you can turn them off in the game" well why would someone still want to pay for them to be in the base game if they are not going to use them? You also say, you won't be buying the sims 4 if these things are not in the base game, well some of the ones that don't want it in the base game feels the same way as you do, for wanting in the base game.
And your point would be...? Even in TS3 there's all sorts of things you "get" whether you want them or not. I didn't want zombies that would eat my garden. But I got them anyway. I'm not a big fan of the repo man but hey he's in the game anyway! I didn't want a ridiculous "attraction system" that results in my Sim constantly being called up for dates by Sims who are married! I sure as heck didn't want a darned "smart phone" my Sims obsessively toy with to the point where I want to smack the bloody thing right out of their hands but hey someone thought that would be a great thing to spend development time and resources on! And here's the kicker... I can't turn any of those things off! And ya know what, annoying as they are, they're not game breakers for me. So I don't really feel even a little bit bad for people who are going to complain about getting pets they don't want WITH the option to turn them off. Sorry, but they really just DO belong in the base game and I'm fine with people who are awful enough to despise animals being able to get rid of them... but I see no reason why they should deprive the rest of us of them.
Those things you mention, have already been in the game from the start! They never had them on their own EP like pets. So If they do put pets in the base game,Then they would have to Jack UP the price of the base game, and that is my point as to why should someone pay for something they don't want in their game, and it has always been an option on just not buying that EP if they don't want pets. This statement you wrote...
people who are awful enough to despise animals being able to get rid of them
What do you mean by this?? Just because they don't want pets in their game does not make them awful people!! Their could be lots of reasons why they may not want them in their game.
Those things you mention, have already been in the game from the start!
So how would it be different if pets and weather were in the game from the start? The point is that we "pay" for aspects of the game we don't "want" already. That has always been the case so adding pets and weather to the base game, especially if EA is both nice and WISE enough to give us options to turn them off (which they don't with many things we don't want)doesn't change this at all. Will it make the base game more expensive? Maybe so but maybe not. There's a spending cap most people reach and EA probably has a pretty good idea of what we'll tolerate before deciding it's just too much. The thing is, adding weather and pets to base game opens up future EP development to be more attractive on many levels. Instead of just reproducing the same tired EPs we already got with TS3 they'll be able to give us truly NEW EPs and they'll be able to expand on weather and pets in all of them. They can make a world with a colder climate and MORE snow and dedicate it to snow sports and activities. And in the EP they could also add doggie coats and boots since dogs would be in already. They can do a South American jungle type of EP or an African safari EP and put in all sorts of cool new animals and add the option to own some exotic pets....since pets in general are already part of the base game. The problem with EPs is that they have always had to be base game only compatible. This means that you can never do anything new and fun with pets, the one pets EP is ALL you are ever going to get. You'll never get a Swiss Chalet and skiing type EP because the one weather EP is ALL you're ever going to get. All of this is WHY the base game HAS TO BE more expansive to begin with. To open up the development of future EPs so EA can REALLY knock our socks off and come up with things we REALLY want to buy instead of just giving us re-treads of TS3 EPs.
They never had them on their own EP like pets. So If they do put pets in the base game,Then they would have to Jack UP the price of the base game, and that is my point as to why should someone pay for something they don't want in their game, and it has always been an option on just not buying that EP if they don't want pets. This statement you wrote...
people who are awful enough to despise animals being able to get rid of them
What do you mean by this?? Just because they don't want pets in their game does not make them awful people!! Their could be lots of reasons why they may not want them in their game.
I have no problem with people who do not want their Sims to own pets. I have no problem with people who do not want to own pets in real life. But to desire an entire world with NO ANIMALS in it is just kind of weird. Just sayin'.
So how would it be different if pets and weather were in the game from the start? The point is that we "pay" for aspects of the game we don't "want" already. That has always been the case so adding pets and weather to the base game, especially if EA is both nice and WISE enough to give us options to turn them off (which they don't with many things we don't want)doesn't change this at all. Will it make the base game more expensive? Maybe so but maybe not. There's a spending cap most people reach and EA probably has a pretty good idea of what we'll tolerate before deciding it's just too much. The thing is, adding weather and pets to base game opens up future EP development to be more attractive on many levels. Instead of just reproducing the same tired EPs we already got with TS3 they'll be able to give us truly NEW EPs and they'll be able to expand on weather and pets in all of them. They can make a world with a colder climate and MORE snow and dedicate it to snow sports and activities. And in the EP they could also add doggie coats and boots since dogs would be in already. They can do a South American jungle type of EP or an African safari EP and put in all sorts of cool new animals and add the option to own some exotic pets....since pets in general are already part of the base game. The problem with EPs is that they have always had to be base game only compatible. This means that you can never do anything new and fun with pets, the one pets EP is ALL you are ever going to get. You'll never get a Swiss Chalet and skiing type EP because the one weather EP is ALL you're ever going to get. All of this is WHY the base game HAS TO BE more expansive to begin with. To open up the development of future EPs so EA can REALLY knock our socks off and come up with things we REALLY want to buy instead of just giving us re-treads of TS3 EPs.
I do see your point on some of these things. I do agree they need to make sims 4 different in alot of ways, but with all you are wanting here is going to require a expensive gaming machine just to play. which is why I think these things need to be on their own EP so the people that can not afford to have a gaming pc can still play at least the base game. (after all they would like to play also) Pets can really reek alot of havoc on a machine,people complained alot about not having fluff,their pets were blocky,crashing to desktop and just plain ugly. This told me that their machines just could not handle the pets.
Personal I would like to see them make sims 4 work with a 64 bit system first and fix some of those issues first.
I do see your point on some of these things. I do agree they need to make sims 4 different in alot of ways, but with all you are wanting here is going to require a expensive gaming machine just to play. which is why I think these things need to be on their own EP so the people that can not afford to have a gaming pc can still play at least the base game. (after all they would like to play also) Pets can really reek alot of havoc on a machine,people complained alot about not having fluff,their pets were blocky,crashing to desktop and just plain ugly. This told me that their machines just could not handle the pets.
Personal I would like to see them make sims 4 work with a 64 bit system first and fix some of those issues first.
This is kind of a tough one. We want an amazing looking game... but we want to be able to run it on any old machine. I wish that were possible but I just don't think we can really have both. Up to date specs are kind of a must and for a game as graphically intense as the Sims ALREADY is I think you almost HAVE to have a decent gaming rig to run it. Games are a luxury item and if I have to upgrade my rig to run them well, I kind of consider that part of the cost of playing those games. EA has the unenviable task of balancing making a game that those who do have gaming rigs won't sneer at and complain that it's dumbed down vs those who feel whatever rig they currently have should be good enough to get the best performance possible out of the game. They have to figure out the magic formula that's going to make them the most money from both camps, computer "snobs" (like me, lol) who consider upgrades just part of playing games in the first place, and those who either can't or won't spend considerable cash keeping their computers completely "up to date." Don't get me wrong, I WANT everybody to be able to play the Sims! But I think that, at a certain point, we have to accept that getting the game we really want means we also have to have the machines to run it.
Comments
^^ This is me, too. I think we can all agree there will have to be some sort of big game-changer like the open neighborhood was for TS3. Plus, EA has upset a lot of fans by jerking them around through this series. They need to prove that they're listening to the fans and are not just interested in releasing lots of half-baked EP's for the sole purpose of making money. We all know they're a business not a charity, but they have GOT to start conveying that they care about the people who give them their hard-earned money.
They didn't just start working on TS4 the day they announced it, so I disagree with the statements that adding weather and pets would take time and would delay the release. I don't know about programming, but it seems that adding weather after the fact would be harder than having it in there from the start. They knew TS4 was coming and they've had plenty of time to include weather and pets.
I, myself, am holding out for a noticeably better base game with customizable weather and a beefed up CAW tool with population controls that don't require a mod. I don't intend to drop a single dime on the sims 4 without those key components. BUT if those are available, I will continue being an ardent fan.
I have some thoughts on the concerns voiced here, especially regarding: not wanting these features in the base, there computer not being able to handle it, the cost of development for these features driving up the cost of the base game.
I do agree that Pets and Weather SHOULD be pre-included.
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On Weather:
They are so basic to life--especially the weather. That's essential to the world around the Sims. I'm not asking for hurricanes, I'm asking for a cloudy, cold, or drizzly day here and there rather than the endless temperate sunshine! I'd love to see snow, of course, but I could understand if they want to limit that to an EP.
There are so many games out there that include weather these days. Weather isn't exclusive to life simulation games--games like Assasin's Creed 3, where you move through large maps of a highly detailed world, include weather--snow and rain. Pretty much nobody is begging for weather in a game like this, and yet it exists! If it was so cost prohibitive, nobody would bother budgeting for it on a game like that.
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On Pets
Personally, Pets have always been essential to my life, and it's common enough to so many that security questions for website registration and banks include "What is the name of your first/favorite pet?" I understand there's an entirely different level of detail required for the devs and that is something that requires more time and money to produce--onto that in a moment.
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RE: Those that believe Weather and Pets will keep them from playing the game on their not-brand-spanking-new-computer AND/OR those who just don't plain want these features:
I do think these are valid arguments against inclusion in the base game. However, the fact is the majority of players want these features at some point, enough that they warrant a dedicated expansion pack!
I DO think EA should be try to be inclusive as possible -- why not include these things, with the option to turn it off for the sake of the computer of the user or gameplay preferences? We can turn off reflections for the sake of a lower-spec computer, and we can turn off aging in our gameplay, if we so choose. Why not stuff like Weather or Pets? Even if it is a choice that must be made before you start playing a neighborhood or playing a family, I think that's a way to satisfy all users!
That's in my brain. I'm no developer, so I can be way off in whether or not the off/on option is feasible.
If EA's goal is to reach casual gamers as well as those who are willing to/have the means to throw down for the latest and greatest gaming computer--where there's a will there's a way!
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On Base Game Cost Being Driven by The Cost to Develop a Base Game with Weather and Pets:
As for base game COST being ridiculous if Weather or Pets were in the base game, because it costs much more money to include - as far as I've researched, the cost of development for games is not at all related to the cost of a base game.
First-- these decisions would have a major impact on the development timeline for the game, so I'm of the opinion that these decisions have already been made. It is a pretty well known fact this game has been in development for at least 4 years (thanks to a dev's leak on twitter back in the day), and decisions as to what the base game should include are made while developing the budget for the game.
A lot of The Sims gamers have been asking for weather and pets in the base game for years, and if they wanted to give us that, they would have planned and budgeted for it, no doubt! They wouldn't have said "We'll put weather and pets in, and charge $80 more dollars than usual for the base game since it will cost us $20 million more to develop it that way."
Again, I'm no expert in the field-- BUT it is my understanding that the planned, standard price for the base game would NOT change if these things were implemented for the Sims 4-- even if the costs would be high for the development.
Here's my logic for that:
The budget for the development of games varies greatly from project to project, within EA, and within other studios. I don't know the numbers, obviously, but let's say Sims 3 base game cost $75-$100 million to develop. Also, let's say a game like Mass Effect 3 (a Action RPG) costs $35 million to develop, The standard game price these days is about $60 US. Both of these games would retail at launch for around that price despite the disparity in the development budget!
Cost is determined to entice gamers to buy. Of course, a for-profit company like EA wants to charge as much as they can, sure, but they only charge as much as they can without alienating/scaring away their target customer!
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Those are my thoughts regarding this very interesting argument about a richer base game than we've had in The Sims, The Sims 2, and The Sims 3.
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Just want add that I'm not a big poster on this forum, but I'm a very avid reader and I really appreciate the passionate debates about this game. I love seeing that people adore The Sims as much as I do!
Also, those of you who have been posting on the forum all these years:
It has been said that the SimGurus have been keeping an eye on the discussion happening on all the forums and keeping your wish lists and concerns in mind. Again, I thank you for being so vocal.
It is because of you that, without a doubt, EA/Maxis KNOW what we want and need in our game. I just hope now that they've done their best to give it to us!
1. Because weather will enhance nearly any Expansion Pack idea in terms of ambiance and game play
2. Pets are usually tossed into one Expansion and forgotten, no further toys, interactions, clothes, collars nothing
3. Temperature is one of those interesting background things that kind of tweaks how you play. In World Adventures having the temp being Hot and your Sims having the possibility of death by heat exhaustion I think would have enhanced the game play in Egypt specifically
4. Pets could evolve right along with our Sims with their interactions increasing over time with each Expansion adding onto game play over time.
Ditto! Bottom line is, EA needs to step up their game. Including weather and pets as base game components would be a huge step in the right direction and one I hope they take.
This! ^^ I really want to be able to see additions/changes/advancements to the pets as time and EPs progress. And yes, specific regional weather that affects our Sims would be fantastic!
With a release date of early 2014, I doubt it would be easy for them to just add it in now. It takes years to make EPs, its not something they can just throw in there last minute (unless we want an unplayable game) - it would most likely be easier for them to add it after the fact because the coding is already there, they don't need to change it around to add in pets and weather. Like others have said they most likely won't add it in the base game because it brings in more money to sell them all separately.
Also, I didn't buy the Pets' EP in this game, twice already was enough since gameplay interactions in this game seems to be even less than what we had in TS1 and TS2.
I wouldn't want pets already in the homes though, nor would I want stray horses blocking my Sims like they do in this game.
But yeah, a 'rare' stray cat and or dog should be in the base game along with meows heard in the distance or barks like we heard in TS2 before Pets was even released..just for the atomosphere.
Things like birds should have to be bought at a local pet shop (no rabbit hole, please) and then if they want to do something different with Pets the next time, add more animals they haven't done, yet.
Like a baby goat, pet rabbits, whatever, but add a 'stray' dog and or cat now and then. But I don't want to play Pets anymore as it is rather boring.
If they can't manage that all the bells and whistles in the world can't make me buy TS4. I'd rather they concentrate on the basics rather than try to add so much to a base game.
Someone also said the base game would be a bit more expensive with two more games added to it.
So, why would you spend more money on a base game if you're not even going to use the features included in it?
That's like buying a meal special at a restaurant, but just having the drink.
Even though I may not be getting Sims 4, I don't think those two should be included in the base game. EA wants to make money, so they will probably make them expansion packs, yet again.
I expect more intelligent Sims AND weather and pets (at least basic pets, horses should probably be part of their own expansion as they DO require a lot)as base game. No, I don't think they should try to cram them in NOW... I EXPECT them to have been part of the base game design from its inception. EA should darn well know better by NOW then to leave them out since they've literally had YEARS of customer complaints about how long it took just to get the Season EP out! Simmers have made it CLEAR for a very long time that basic weather should be something we should be able to EXPECT... not WAIT ages for and then have to shell out more money for all over again. If basic weather is part of base game then that opens up the eventual Seasons-type EP to have TONS more content... winter sports, lodges, summer sports, summer resorts, etc. Ditto with pets. Once the basic critters are in an eventual Pets type expansion can have tons more for us to do with our pets if we're into that and those of us who just like having a family dog around don't have to bother. Personally I think horses should get their own EP as well and should have both Western and English riding styles and events as well as horse racing and a wider range of the types of horses you can have...ones that aren't all the same size regardless of if one is a draft horse and the other an Arabian.
As for weather, it has to be a part of the natural environment of TS4. I just don't see it as a gameplay feature that can be added later. It should be there from the beginning as part of the world our TS4 Sims live in. I won't wait for it again and buy another EP based on weather. I expect it in the base game.
I agree completely! The game is called the Sims for a reason, and EA needs to focus on improving them first and foremost. They already started turning out decent EPs with a crappy base game. And we ended up with The Sims 3. My hope is that The Sims4 fares much better.
And your point would be...? Even in TS3 there's all sorts of things you "get" whether you want them or not. I didn't want zombies that would eat my garden. But I got them anyway. I'm not a big fan of the repo man but hey he's in the game anyway! I didn't want a ridiculous "attraction system" that results in my Sim constantly being called up for dates by Sims who are married! I sure as heck didn't want a darned "smart phone" my Sims obsessively toy with to the point where I want to smack the bloody thing right out of their hands but hey someone thought that would be a great thing to spend development time and resources on! And here's the kicker... I can't turn any of those things off! And ya know what, annoying as they are, they're not game breakers for me. So I don't really feel even a little bit bad for people who are going to complain about getting pets they don't want WITH the option to turn them off. Sorry, but they really just DO belong in the base game and I'm fine with people who are awful enough to despise animals being able to get rid of them... but I see no reason why they should deprive the rest of us of them.
Edit: One thing I would like added with weather would be power going out he heavy storms, would be the same as a house with no lights, there could even be a fear of the dark trait. I don't think there should be any natural disasters. Or with pets not everyone likes animals, would be fun to have sims that love cats living with a sim that hates them. Along the same lines as the dislikes children trait.
I don't want them to include pets and weather at the expense of anything else either. I expect a vastly improved game with Sims 4 over Sims 3 AND I expect it to include weather and pets. I'm not asking them to shoehorn them in at the 11th hour, I expect that they should have added them when they first started planning the game. If they didn't, then that is a HUGE failure on their part. I and many others have already stated that we won't be buying Sims4 unless or until it already has the level of content we want. If that means we have to wait for five or six expansions down the line then that means it'll be that long until EA gets any money from us...and since having to wait that long means we'll be getting the game and EPs used or on sale they won't be getting nearly as MUCH money from us as they would if they'd just do the base game right in the first place. I really do hope EA is getting the message on this.
I do love your idea about power outages during storms though! But if they do that they'll have to code candles and oil lamps differently from other light fixtures. It would be pretty cute seeing our Sims run around in the dark lighting candles when a storm knocks their power out! Or huddling by their fireplaces because now that the power it out it's COLD! LOL
So how would it be different if pets and weather were in the game from the start? The point is that we "pay" for aspects of the game we don't "want" already. That has always been the case so adding pets and weather to the base game, especially if EA is both nice and WISE enough to give us options to turn them off (which they don't with many things we don't want)doesn't change this at all. Will it make the base game more expensive? Maybe so but maybe not. There's a spending cap most people reach and EA probably has a pretty good idea of what we'll tolerate before deciding it's just too much. The thing is, adding weather and pets to base game opens up future EP development to be more attractive on many levels. Instead of just reproducing the same tired EPs we already got with TS3 they'll be able to give us truly NEW EPs and they'll be able to expand on weather and pets in all of them. They can make a world with a colder climate and MORE snow and dedicate it to snow sports and activities. And in the EP they could also add doggie coats and boots since dogs would be in already. They can do a South American jungle type of EP or an African safari EP and put in all sorts of cool new animals and add the option to own some exotic pets....since pets in general are already part of the base game. The problem with EPs is that they have always had to be base game only compatible. This means that you can never do anything new and fun with pets, the one pets EP is ALL you are ever going to get. You'll never get a Swiss Chalet and skiing type EP because the one weather EP is ALL you're ever going to get. All of this is WHY the base game HAS TO BE more expansive to begin with. To open up the development of future EPs so EA can REALLY knock our socks off and come up with things we REALLY want to buy instead of just giving us re-treads of TS3 EPs.
I have no problem with people who do not want their Sims to own pets. I have no problem with people who do not want to own pets in real life. But to desire an entire world with NO ANIMALS in it is just kind of weird. Just sayin'.
I do see your point on some of these things. I do agree they need to make sims 4 different in alot of ways, but with all you are wanting here is going to require a expensive gaming machine just to play. which is why I think these things need to be on their own EP so the people that can not afford to have a gaming pc can still play at least the base game. (after all they would like to play also) Pets can really reek alot of havoc on a machine,people complained alot about not having fluff,their pets were blocky,crashing to desktop and just plain ugly. This told me that their machines just could not handle the pets.
Personal I would like to see them make sims 4 work with a 64 bit system first and fix some of those issues first.
This is kind of a tough one. We want an amazing looking game... but we want to be able to run it on any old machine. I wish that were possible but I just don't think we can really have both. Up to date specs are kind of a must and for a game as graphically intense as the Sims ALREADY is I think you almost HAVE to have a decent gaming rig to run it. Games are a luxury item and if I have to upgrade my rig to run them well, I kind of consider that part of the cost of playing those games. EA has the unenviable task of balancing making a game that those who do have gaming rigs won't sneer at and complain that it's dumbed down vs those who feel whatever rig they currently have should be good enough to get the best performance possible out of the game. They have to figure out the magic formula that's going to make them the most money from both camps, computer "snobs" (like me, lol) who consider upgrades just part of playing games in the first place, and those who either can't or won't spend considerable cash keeping their computers completely "up to date." Don't get me wrong, I WANT everybody to be able to play the Sims! But I think that, at a certain point, we have to accept that getting the game we really want means we also have to have the machines to run it.