Personally, I think the major problem is - somewhere along the way in our sims' journey we stopped inviting the sims' world into ours, and started imposing our world into theirs.
Is there such a thing as an African American Sim? Or a Spanish Sim? They certainly don't speak Spanish. How much of our reality can we impose on a world of fantasy before that world isn't about fantasy anymore but instead becomes a graphic representation of our very own lives.
Also, this is a prime example of a one sided argument. If we are going to create an argument over the sims not representing our world of reality, with the current argument being about race, then lets address as well the opposite side of the coin.The idea of vampires being in the sim world but not in ours. Where's our green aliens? The blue people? The mermaids?
Yes, the sim world is missing a lot that we have here in our world. But our world is missing ideas that come naturally to the sim world as well. Maybe it's a good thing the sims don't have a voice of their own because they might accuse us of being racist for not having blue people.
I blame technological advancement over the years for allowing for this argument. With graphics getting better and better, and the tools to manipulate things more to our preference improved, it was just a matter of time before someone somewhere got their hands on a sims CAS and tried to actually create "themselves". Once we discovered we could do exactly that.... create ourselves in CAS, the game then became more about us and our world, and less about the sims and the sims world.
And here we are today reading a blog about EA/Maxis being accused of racism because the sims don't look like us.
ur so right, also i think ts4 marketing has had some fault on all this drama. they keep pushing the whole inclusivity, representation and escapism idea onto their players and so they opened the door to backlash and accusations cuz it's impossible to please everyone. but people is taking it too far. i still remember when games were about having good fun and not about doing yourself with precision. i mean it's fun to make a sim with precision but it shouldn't make anyone upset nor should anyone take it seriously, especially given how ts4's cas is one of it's best features alongside build mode. besides there's also tons of cc to help.
maxis main concern in the sims now should be working on the core of it, which means the sims AI, personality, actions, animations, you know all that stuff that will do for the gameplay.
I agree. I think EA is maybe a little too proud of their CAS by marketing it to be on such a pedestal. And yes, by doing so, they became their own worst enemy. Now they have themselves caught up in a race war they may have a difficult time getting back out of.
I'm glad we are getting an update to the CAS. But I don't think EA/Maxis did themselves any favors by allowing their decision to be influenced by racial conflict. Now EA/Maxis has opened the door for comparative arguments that will suddenly come out of the woodwork.
IMO, what EA should have done, with their agreement to update the CAS, was point out clearly that the game wasn't created for personal identification. Just because we can (to some degree) create ourselves in CAS, doesn't mean that the CAS was created for that purpose. The color swatches are for the purpose of creating sims.... not real people.
It's sad that we sometimes get so wrapped up in ourselves that everything has to be about "us". I can't create "me" in the sims to EA/Maxis is racist.
But, unfortunately, that's the world we live in. We can't simply enjoy a game anymore without making it about some political statement.
I'm glad the game is making an effort. I think they do care and do try. And there's always room to grow. I don't understand telling people to curb their feedback, since that's most of what we come to do on the forums anyway. I never see passionate bunk bed pleas get this much backlash. Continious improvement on CAS won't take away from improvement in other areas.
I'm glad the game is making an effort. I think they do care and do try. And there's always room to grow. I don't understand telling people to curb their feedback, since that's most of what we come to do on the forums anyway. I never see passionate bunk bed pleas get this much backlash. Continious improvement on CAS won't take away from improvement in other areas.
Its because we live in a society that has propped up one group as the default/standard, therefore, they cant see why people want better optimization for darker skinned sims.
Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.
Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?
Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...
Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.
I'm a building. At night. I don't even have hands, so don't ask me how I'm typing this; I don't know! How am I even sentient?!?
Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.
Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?
Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...
Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.
I'm a building. At night. I don't even have hands, so don't ask me how I'm typing this; I don't know! How am I even sentient?!?
I see your lights are on. Clearly someone is home.
I'm glad the game is making an effort. I think they do care and do try. And there's always room to grow. I don't understand telling people to curb their feedback, since that's most of what we come to do on the forums anyway. I never see passionate bunk bed pleas get this much backlash. Continious improvement on CAS won't take away from improvement in other areas.
Its because we live in a society that has propped up one group as the default/standard, therefore, they cant see why people want better optimization for darker skinned sims.
No girl. This is not what it is about. Nobody here is being inconsiderate or discriminatory. When it comes down to it I feel like our expectations have become so huge that we see fault, racism and controversy even in a video game.
And the game lacks in variables for creating more diverse sims.
Also, why can we not have snakebite piercings? I miss mine, and want to live vicariously through putting more holes in my sims.
I'm glad the game is making an effort. I think they do care and do try. And there's always room to grow. I don't understand telling people to curb their feedback, since that's most of what we come to do on the forums anyway. I never see passionate bunk bed pleas get this much backlash. Continious improvement on CAS won't take away from improvement in other areas.
Its because we live in a society that has propped up one group as the default/standard, therefore, they cant see why people want better optimization for darker skinned sims.
This is the case where I live (I don't live in the US).
I think Sims players of different backgrounds making themselves known to the developers as an audience of the game could never be a bad thing, especially if it makes it richer in future iterations.
And, man, unconscious biases are so hard to grasp (I mean, I keep discovering new ones of mine every week).
Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.
Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?
Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...
Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.
I'm a building. At night. I don't even have hands, so don't ask me how I'm typing this; I don't know! How am I even sentient?!?
I'm glad the game is making an effort. I think they do care and do try. And there's always room to grow. I don't understand telling people to curb their feedback, since that's most of what we come to do on the forums anyway. I never see passionate bunk bed pleas get this much backlash. Continious improvement on CAS won't take away from improvement in other areas.
Its because we live in a society that has propped up one group as the default/standard, therefore, they cant see why people want better optimization for darker skinned sims.
I can see why people want better customization for darker skinned sims. They aren't shy when it comes to pointing that out directly. They want the ability to create a sim of themselves, and will accuse EA/Maxis of being racist until they are given the tools to achieve their whim. And anyone who denies, or speaks against their desire will also be labeled as racist..... or... of a default standard that simply doesn't understand.
If the argument was about the darker swatches being of poor quality for the sims. Then that would be a fair argument. But no, it has to be about someone's brother from Kenya or something. Or because people can't create "themselves" to their satisfaction.
The sims game wasn't designed to be a professional graphics arts tool. Its not for the purpose of recreating the human race. If someone can recreate themselves in CAS, that's great. But it wasn't designed for that. It was designed for the creation of the Sims.
IMO, this nonsense about the lack of ability to clone ourselves in a sims game, and using that as an excuse to spark an argument about racial inequality... that's a slap in the face to those suffering from the real issues happening around us every day. It's on TV. Its in the newspapers. Its on the very streets we walk on. And because of our modern age.... its all over the internet. Those are the issues we should be fighting against.
Here's the simple truth. There is a possibility that you might not be able to successfully recreate yourself in the sims' CAS. And the reason for that is.... the sims CAS wasn't created for that purpose. Its not because you are African American. Its not because you are an Indian. Its not because you are Latino. Its because.... the sims game is about ..... creating sims.... not the human race.
The sooner people stop making the sims game all about themselves, and get back to just creating a bunch of blue and green sims.... the sooner we can move on to fight the real racial issues.
When people say indigenous peoples I have to wonder do they actually know thousands, millions of years ago, there was a huge land mass, that as the earth evolved was broken up, and those 'indigenous people' were actually from an area known today as Siberia? (not born on these lands) So, thinking someone is indigenous is presumptive. Also, there were warring tribes who took other tribes' lands as time went on, and so when you think of this part of land or that place as if here is the home of an indigenous people, is it really? True History matters, while we are on the subject of race, so many in America, whether they are 'native indian' or black or white, or even Asian, have become part of a big melting pot, and no longer wear tradional clothes, no longer wear feathers, and or particular beads and have become American and so many of the races have been mixed it's hard to say what a true skin tone would be. It's a bit racist to think Native Indians or anyone else is any different in America. Wanting to see them in some tradional garb from thousands of years ago. (So you can say how diverse you are) Think on it, the light will come to you. It's about as offensive as everyone wanting to see an afro from the 70's the go to hairstyle for a black Sim as if blacks are stuck in the 70's clothes and hairstyles. just so people can show how diverse they are. As if no one is living in modern times right now. Stereotyping all for the sake of 'divesity' is beyond belief here. As if all young, 'native Americans' all have very long hair and never get a hair cut. lol, It's remarkable so many think they are being diverse when it's actually bigotry.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
On the other hand, The Sims has some races which are not found in real life. I am thinking about e.g. aliens which have at least two different colors in Sims 4.
Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.
Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?
Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...
Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.
I'm a building. At night. I don't even have hands, so don't ask me how I'm typing this; I don't know! How am I even sentient?!?
I see your lights are on. Clearly someone is home.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 you guys/girls are cracking me up. This was my laugh for the weekend
I use that Afro on my Angela Davis sim. I've used it on my sim when I threw a disco party in game. Similar to one of my husband's high school reunions where the theme was to dress as the year you graduated. He wore a huge Afro wig, plaid polyester bell-bottom pants, and platform shoes. I'm glad the game gives us some options to create sims from different time periods.
Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.
Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?
Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...
Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.
That reminds me of:
I swear she's your spirit animal. Now that's representation.
Didn't we all come from Space in the first place?
At the end of the day we're all just a bunch of weird Aliens.
That's a nice thought. If everyone remembered that more often, we probably wouldn't have all the issues we've had for centuries, but we do. Where I'm from, some people are definitely not treated like we all come from the same place, our socioeconomical system does benefit people who look like one certain way, not out of deliberate hate, it's just the way it's been for too long and people have a hard recognizing it.
And the game lacks in variables for creating more diverse sims.
Also, why can we not have snakebite piercings? I miss mine, and want to live vicariously through putting more holes in my sims.
Yes!, the scientific racist beliefs jumped out to me from that comment. The categorization of humans is so creepy. And always bad.
You haven't commented yet and I can imagine that a lot of the dialogue in this thread must be an overwhelming response to your original post.
A lot of folks seem to appreciate your concern, even if not everyone completely agrees with it (me included).
That being said, I'm wondering what your standpoint is. Have you been able to look at things in a different light or did the conversation end here for you?
It's interesting how some people behave as if asking for the ability to create dark-skimmed Sims that don't have graphical issues is like a nit-picker asking for the exact shade of blue rug they have in their living room at home.
Yeah, my avi is a character from a GAME.I wish I had a white fluffy kitty in my hands right now! What about simmers with plumbobs or animals for avis?? My user is strawberryyogurt but i PROMISE i dont identify as a dairy product.
Wait, WHAT?! Are you telling me these AVIS aren’t necessarily the actual forum members?
Does this mean I haven’t been communicating with Cats and Pups and Cow Plants and Witches and Plumbobs and Fruits and all these other wonderful looking beings the entire time?
Don’t tell me you guys are all just simple humans like me...
Pssh. I'm totally my avatar. I'm a fortune telling, evil vampire from a nightmare carnival who laughs at despair.
That reminds me of:
I swear she's your spirit animal. Now that's representation.
YAAAAAASSS!! She is my Familiar! We are twin souls! I have found her at last and the world will be ours!!
It's interesting how some people behave as if asking for the ability to create dark-skimmed Sims that don't have graphical issues is like a nit-picker asking for the exact shade of blue rug they have in their living room at home.
Its actually very tiresome. And theres a phrase for it. But im about tired of going back and forth, so im going to just ignore and block ppl.
This is the sims, you guys, NOT RL. I play the sims to escape this very talk.
Then go play your game? What's the point in trying to shoo people away who care about these issues when you can easily ignore it. There are obviously many people who are against diversity changes for this game and that's fine. I will not argue with people over that but to go the extra mile to try to shut down all discussion about these issues is insane to me.
I'm a little confused by what the OP is missing in terms of creating a Native American sim. After reading the post, I went into my game to see if I could create Native American characters, and I ended up with two gorgeous siblings without custom content. What is missing? Unless, it is the costumes and accessories worn for powwow performances? Are we talking jingle dresses and fancy dance outfits? We don't have the ability to have them perform traditional dances either. How do they represent a group that consists of vastly different tribes without being offensive or excluding someone? I'm not really sure what to say about representation in the game because it is limited overall. That's why I use so much custom content and mods. The game only has so much to offer without it, unfortunately.
We need more presets for heads and cheekbones. I feel that the cheekbones should be decent high cheekbones without looking odd. Head presets specifically for missing races.
There are or 3 or 4 for African American.
Generic Latino/Hispanic There really is a difference between Mexican. Puerto Rican, Cuban etc.
1 for Indian (India)
1 Japanese
1 Chinese
1 Generic Asian
1 Generic Middle Eastern
A lot of European head presets
I can't find any for Canada's First People
I can't find any Native American head presets to use that doesn't have a wrench
I prefer starting with presets then tweaking them out since we aren't given a head void of race or ethnicity that is void of any human skin tone and use sliders to solely shape a head and facial features then choose our skin tone which I wouldn't mind doing. That would be the dev's easiest solution because it would allow for sliders (which again need to be improved greatly) to determine the race/ethnicity of the sim we are creating.
I don't want anybody's race/ethnicity to be left out. As the white Youtubers said we should all have the option of being able to create ourselves as sims. For some, this can be fixed with improved and added skin tones and hair. We really need improved skin tones. We really need more skin tones. We really need more hairstyles especially 4a, 4b, 4c, 3a, 3b. 3c hair that isn't stereotyped and looks beautiful. To me, I think if they add in stereotyped 3a, 3b, 3c, 4a, 4b, 4c hair it'll create more problems than it can it solve. If they are wise they will ask for feedback the whole way through.
I am happy that EA supports Black Lives Matter and the African American Community. A tip of the hat to them for that. I honestly can't say enough nice things about supporting this cause.
However African American isn't the only minority out there. There are Middle Easterners but are represented in a somewhat stereotypical fashion in the sims. There are Latinos/Hispanics and Asians that need better representation in the sims. Native Americans and Canada's First People which have no representation from my observation even though some of you say there is. I'm not doubting you. I just can't find the head presets, cheek presets, nose presets etc to properly represent them however if I just use sliders in advanced mode I can do a better job unless I use custom presets. Samoans and Polynesians need both better representation and representation too. Other minorities need better presentation and representation too.
Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
Comments
I agree. I think EA is maybe a little too proud of their CAS by marketing it to be on such a pedestal. And yes, by doing so, they became their own worst enemy. Now they have themselves caught up in a race war they may have a difficult time getting back out of.
I'm glad we are getting an update to the CAS. But I don't think EA/Maxis did themselves any favors by allowing their decision to be influenced by racial conflict. Now EA/Maxis has opened the door for comparative arguments that will suddenly come out of the woodwork.
IMO, what EA should have done, with their agreement to update the CAS, was point out clearly that the game wasn't created for personal identification. Just because we can (to some degree) create ourselves in CAS, doesn't mean that the CAS was created for that purpose. The color swatches are for the purpose of creating sims.... not real people.
It's sad that we sometimes get so wrapped up in ourselves that everything has to be about "us". I can't create "me" in the sims to EA/Maxis is racist.
But, unfortunately, that's the world we live in. We can't simply enjoy a game anymore without making it about some political statement.
Its because we live in a society that has propped up one group as the default/standard, therefore, they cant see why people want better optimization for darker skinned sims.
I'm a building. At night. I don't even have hands, so don't ask me how I'm typing this; I don't know! How am I even sentient?!?
I see your lights are on. Clearly someone is home.
No girl. This is not what it is about. Nobody here is being inconsiderate or discriminatory. When it comes down to it I feel like our expectations have become so huge that we see fault, racism and controversy even in a video game.
And the game lacks in variables for creating more diverse sims.
Also, why can we not have snakebite piercings? I miss mine, and want to live vicariously through putting more holes in my sims.
This is the case where I live (I don't live in the US).
I think Sims players of different backgrounds making themselves known to the developers as an audience of the game could never be a bad thing, especially if it makes it richer in future iterations.
And, man, unconscious biases are so hard to grasp (I mean, I keep discovering new ones of mine every week).
wow a magic building
I can see why people want better customization for darker skinned sims. They aren't shy when it comes to pointing that out directly. They want the ability to create a sim of themselves, and will accuse EA/Maxis of being racist until they are given the tools to achieve their whim. And anyone who denies, or speaks against their desire will also be labeled as racist..... or... of a default standard that simply doesn't understand.
If the argument was about the darker swatches being of poor quality for the sims. Then that would be a fair argument. But no, it has to be about someone's brother from Kenya or something. Or because people can't create "themselves" to their satisfaction.
The sims game wasn't designed to be a professional graphics arts tool. Its not for the purpose of recreating the human race. If someone can recreate themselves in CAS, that's great. But it wasn't designed for that. It was designed for the creation of the Sims.
IMO, this nonsense about the lack of ability to clone ourselves in a sims game, and using that as an excuse to spark an argument about racial inequality... that's a slap in the face to those suffering from the real issues happening around us every day. It's on TV. Its in the newspapers. Its on the very streets we walk on. And because of our modern age.... its all over the internet. Those are the issues we should be fighting against.
Here's the simple truth. There is a possibility that you might not be able to successfully recreate yourself in the sims' CAS. And the reason for that is.... the sims CAS wasn't created for that purpose. Its not because you are African American. Its not because you are an Indian. Its not because you are Latino. Its because.... the sims game is about ..... creating sims.... not the human race.
The sooner people stop making the sims game all about themselves, and get back to just creating a bunch of blue and green sims.... the sooner we can move on to fight the real racial issues.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 you guys/girls are cracking me up. This was my laugh for the weekend
That reminds me of:
I swear she's your spirit animal. Now that's representation.
That's a nice thought. If everyone remembered that more often, we probably wouldn't have all the issues we've had for centuries, but we do. Where I'm from, some people are definitely not treated like we all come from the same place, our socioeconomical system does benefit people who look like one certain way, not out of deliberate hate, it's just the way it's been for too long and people have a hard recognizing it.
Yes!, the scientific racist beliefs jumped out to me from that comment. The categorization of humans is so creepy. And always bad.
You haven't commented yet and I can imagine that a lot of the dialogue in this thread must be an overwhelming response to your original post.
A lot of folks seem to appreciate your concern, even if not everyone completely agrees with it (me included).
That being said, I'm wondering what your standpoint is. Have you been able to look at things in a different light or did the conversation end here for you?
YAAAAAASSS!! She is my Familiar! We are twin souls! I have found her at last and the world will be ours!!
Its actually very tiresome. And theres a phrase for it. But im about tired of going back and forth, so im going to just ignore and block ppl.
Then go play your game? What's the point in trying to shoo people away who care about these issues when you can easily ignore it. There are obviously many people who are against diversity changes for this game and that's fine. I will not argue with people over that but to go the extra mile to try to shut down all discussion about these issues is insane to me.
There are or 3 or 4 for African American.
Generic Latino/Hispanic There really is a difference between Mexican. Puerto Rican, Cuban etc.
1 for Indian (India)
1 Japanese
1 Chinese
1 Generic Asian
1 Generic Middle Eastern
A lot of European head presets
I can't find any for Canada's First People
I can't find any Native American head presets to use that doesn't have a wrench
I prefer starting with presets then tweaking them out since we aren't given a head void of race or ethnicity that is void of any human skin tone and use sliders to solely shape a head and facial features then choose our skin tone which I wouldn't mind doing. That would be the dev's easiest solution because it would allow for sliders (which again need to be improved greatly) to determine the race/ethnicity of the sim we are creating.
I don't want anybody's race/ethnicity to be left out. As the white Youtubers said we should all have the option of being able to create ourselves as sims. For some, this can be fixed with improved and added skin tones and hair. We really need improved skin tones. We really need more skin tones. We really need more hairstyles especially 4a, 4b, 4c, 3a, 3b. 3c hair that isn't stereotyped and looks beautiful. To me, I think if they add in stereotyped 3a, 3b, 3c, 4a, 4b, 4c hair it'll create more problems than it can it solve. If they are wise they will ask for feedback the whole way through.
I am happy that EA supports Black Lives Matter and the African American Community. A tip of the hat to them for that. I honestly can't say enough nice things about supporting this cause.
However African American isn't the only minority out there. There are Middle Easterners but are represented in a somewhat stereotypical fashion in the sims. There are Latinos/Hispanics and Asians that need better representation in the sims. Native Americans and Canada's First People which have no representation from my observation even though some of you say there is. I'm not doubting you. I just can't find the head presets, cheek presets, nose presets etc to properly represent them however if I just use sliders in advanced mode I can do a better job unless I use custom presets. Samoans and Polynesians need both better representation and representation too. Other minorities need better presentation and representation too.