I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
I did say some gets cycled back into the employees. Some back into equipment and I'm sure there's building rent too (which I did not mention). 1.6m is a lot though and there is a lot left over. A lot. Likely some of those employees (I would hope) make a bit more that $15/hr as well. Again though, none of their cost would equal 1.6m unless they were grossly mismanaged. That was the point. Also, that's just one EP. They are definitely flush enough with just that math (with allowing the costs of course to make it) to do way better than they are (as far as quality goes). It does show just how well they are doing and how far from dead this franchise is.
To me it's like TV shows, that know when to quit while they are ahead. They are smart enough not to drag it out and then ruin a reputation of a good show by just going on and on for years and it's core base loosing interest and no longer tuning in and or not remembering it fondly years later. They run a high risk of TS4's somewhat shaky reputation of being damaged further by keeping it going. It only runs the risk of more and more complaints, more and more rose colored glasses being removed, and more and more of the actual fanbase that loves it, becoming jaded and disillusioned. Five years is very long time for a game to endure all that. And usually, it's a good time to stop (four or five years) with this series and bring out some new engine and gameplay possibilites. But EA and Maxis have decided this cow had more milk, but it seems the more they milk even those who like the milk are starting to think it's souring, and it really should dawn on EA (at least) if not Maxis, the new is wearing off, the time for potential has long since past, and the only thing they are going to have left are those (even those who really enjoy TS4) starting to become tired with it, wanting more, deeper gameplay it can't do, and or won't do, and they have forgotten a very good lesson in entertainment, leave them laughing and always wanting more. It's time they really start considering why run it into the ground.
ETA: Consider this Maxis, with the three or four big packs (or ideas) out of the way what has TS4 done that is so amazing to justify 29+ packs, (to it's players) rather than fill your purses? If we remove the three or four big things players always will want, Seasons, Pets, University or Education packs, and some sort of OFB ability pack, what has TS4 done with all the other packs that are so amazing and innovative no one could have lived without them? Not much. Group activity is ok but it doesn't actually work half the time, so trying to be fair, there was nothing in TS4 (other than big packs they will always want) to have justified milking the public.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I think half the issue and the reason for complaint is because no matter how well you guide your sim, the responses are always the same.
I.e I make Bob cheat on Eliza. Eliza may do an angry stomp but she will still get whims to flirt with Bob afterwards and will happily woohoo with him.
I make Bella cheat on Mortimer with Bob. Mortimer may do an angry stomp but he will still get whims to flirt with Bella and will happily woohoo with her.
(He will even text Bob and congratulate him on his new girlfriend Bella)
Cassandra and Alexander simply will not care or react to the fact their Mother has left them and ran away to StrangerVille with Bob.
Mortimer dies when the kids are at school. The kids come home and they they don’t notice nor care. Apparently they are sad but the little blue sad moodlet is lost in amongst the happy moodlets. Better make the kids go and notice and react because they won’t do it themselves!
For me, the above examples demonstrate exactly why blame is put at the games door. It deserves it. Those examples may be extreme but this is a life simulation game (allegedly) and any sim in those scenarios always behave the exact same way. The player should not have to imagine sims have emotional responses to life events and life in general when emotions were a big selling point of this game. If the player has to tell their characters how to respond and they don’t believe in their emotional responses then that’s a huge problem. Blame the game, not the player for game design like lack of consequence. I think it says everything when there are mods out there designed to give your sims consequences.
This reminds me about the time I had a vampire and human soulmate sims out on a date. And another vampire went into an outrage and bit the human girlfriend sim. All the while standing right next to her was her vampire boyfriend still smiling listlessly into the air while she got but until she fainted with her butt sticking up into the air like sims do.
I'm like sooooooo..... your not gonna react in any shape or form? Not angry at the other vampire? Not concerned or sad about his girlfriend or ANYTHING at all! It totally kicked me out of the immersion and I went back to poses and imagination. 😑
I think half the issue and the reason for complaint is because no matter how well you guide your sim, the responses are always the same.
I.e I make Bob cheat on Eliza. Eliza may do an angry stomp but she will still get whims to flirt with Bob afterwards and will happily woohoo with him.
I make Bella cheat on Mortimer with Bob. Mortimer may do an angry stomp but he will still get whims to flirt with Bella and will happily woohoo with her.
(He will even text Bob and congratulate him on his new girlfriend Bella)
Cassandra and Alexander simply will not care or react to the fact their Mother has left them and ran away to StrangerVille with Bob.
Mortimer dies when the kids are at school. The kids come home and they they don’t notice nor care. Apparently they are sad but the little blue sad moodlet is lost in amongst the happy moodlets. Better make the kids go and notice and react because they won’t do it themselves!
For me, the above examples demonstrate exactly why blame is put at the games door. It deserves it. Those examples may be extreme but this is a life simulation game (allegedly) and any sim in those scenarios always behave the exact same way. The player should not have to imagine sims have emotional responses to life events and life in general when emotions were a big selling point of this game. If the player has to tell their characters how to respond and they don’t believe in their emotional responses then that’s a huge problem. Blame the game, not the player for game design like lack of consequence. I think it says everything when there are mods out there designed to give your sims consequences.
This reminds me about the time I had a vampire and human soulmate sims out on a date. And another vampire went into an outrage and bit the human girlfriend sim. All the while standing right next to her was her vampire boyfriend still smiling listlessly into the air while she got but until she fainted with her butt sticking up into the air like sims do.
I'm like sooooooo..... your not gonna react in any shape or form? Not angry at the other vampire? Not concerned or sad about his girlfriend or ANYTHING at all! It totally kicked me out of the immersion and I went back to poses and imagination. 😑
I haven’t had that exact scenario but I can truely believe it. I see it in other people’s games where sims just stood there watching with dumb expressions on their faces whilst a sim cast magical spells outside of RoM. I had a kid sitting on the couch eating ice cream watching his Dad make out with the mail carrier whilst his Mother was in the next room. Kid just sat there with a vacant, soul less, dead behind the eyes expression. That just wouldn’t have happened in the sims 2. A game ten years older still beats the latest game hands down. That’s sad, in fact it’s pathetic. I even had a situation where my own vampire sim broke into a sims house and i was really pleased as I didn’t know that was a thing; only for it to be ruined when my vampire became energised for whatever reason and did the energised walk proudly up to Eliza and hip bumped her. Which Eliza was cool with. Because obviously it’s perfectly normal for a vampire to break in the wee small hours and come over and hip bump you. Happens all the time right?
No wonder we can’t/don’t have burglars. Sims don’t give a rats backside. And if they don’t care? Why should we care? I’m a writer, if I write a scene I want my readers to feel something for the characters, I want my characters emotions to flow off the page. If I wrote what I described above as a scene in a book the characters would be the flattest, one dimensional characters ever that no one would care for.
I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
I did say some gets cycled back into the employees. Some back into equipment and I'm sure there's building rent too (which I did not mention). 1.6m is a lot though and there is a lot left over. A lot. Likely some of those employees (I would hope) make a bit more that $15/hr as well. Again though, none of their cost would equal 1.6m unless they were grossly mismanaged. That was the point. Also, that's just one EP. They are definitely flush enough with just that math (with allowing the costs of course to make it) to do way better than they are (as far as quality goes). It does show just how well they are doing and how far from dead this franchise is.
Your math is still not right. Or rather, your view of what's a lot of money in these things. 1.6mil really isn't as much money as you think, not in a company this big. Not with the operating costs that they have.
How many of EA's 9000 employees are working on The Sims? It's not 50. Which is the number of employees who would be paid for a year if they were only earning 15$/hr. That's it, that's all that the 1.6mil pays for. This is a company that deals in billions, not millions.
Is enough of the income from Sims being put back into the development of the game? Probably not. That's not what I was addressing
My point is that no, 1.6mil really isn't all that much money considering the size of the team & the costs to pay them. It's a lot of money for a regular person, sure. But a company with 9k employees? 1.6mil is a drop in the ocean.
Think this way: they have, supposedly, 200million active players. If even a tenth of them buys the new EP, it's 800 million. Now THAT is a number that is a lot. How much of that goes back into the development of the next pack is anyone's guess (besides "could be more" which is always true). But that's not the point I was making.
I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
Developers don't make $15.00 an hour. They make way beyond that, and if they don't, they change jobs to find someone who will pay them more. I don't think EA pays by the hour anymore, not since they were criticized and fined for working employess overtime and not paying (weekends etc.) years ago. I'm pretty sure developers are on a salary/contract. EA's TS4 made one billion last year. That was probably across all platforms it is currently on, but a billion is no drop in the bucket for one title. Then there are EA's other titles. EA isn't a little indie game company, but a Multi-Billion Dollar enterprise. TS4 bringing home 1 Billion of that multi billions.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
Developers don't make $15.00 an hour. They make way beyond that, and if they don't, they change jobs to find someone who will pay them more. I don't think EA pays by the hour anymore, not since they were criticized and fined for working employess overtime and not paying (weekends etc.) years ago. I'm pretty sure developers are on a salary/contract. EA's TS4 made one billion last year. That was probably across all platforms it is currently on, but a billion is no drop in the bucket for one title. Then there are EA's other titles. EA isn't a little indie game company, but a Multi-Billion Dollar enterprise. TS4 bringing home 1 Billion of that multi billions.
And my point was that even IF they were paid ONLY 15$/hr, then 1.6mil would be peanuts and no way enough to cover the costs of one EP.
I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
Developers don't make $15.00 an hour. They make way beyond that, and if they don't, they change jobs to find someone who will pay them more. I don't think EA pays by the hour anymore, not since they were criticized and fined for working employess overtime and not paying (weekends etc.) years ago. I'm pretty sure developers are on a salary/contract. EA's TS4 made one billion last year. That was probably across all platforms it is currently on, but a billion is no drop in the bucket for one title. Then there are EA's other titles. EA isn't a little indie game company, but a Multi-Billion Dollar enterprise. TS4 bringing home 1 Billion of that multi billions.
And my point was that even IF they were paid ONLY 15$/hr, then 1.6mil would be peanuts and no way enough to cover the costs of one EP.
One EP for TS4 is never going to cost this team 1.6 million. How about mere thousands is closer to the truth. That would also include a lion's share going to marketing and PR. What you may not understand is everyone is paid and keeps working even if they aren't on a current EP etc. But are making content or running code for another pack. Yes, that costs money for those salaries to continue. However, Maxis also out sources a lot of this game to freelance developers or companies. It isn't costing them 1.6 million to build any EP in TS4. Maybe less than half of that for all costs.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
Developers don't make $15.00 an hour. They make way beyond that, and if they don't, they change jobs to find someone who will pay them more. I don't think EA pays by the hour anymore, not since they were criticized and fined for working employess overtime and not paying (weekends etc.) years ago. I'm pretty sure developers are on a salary/contract. EA's TS4 made one billion last year. That was probably across all platforms it is currently on, but a billion is no drop in the bucket for one title. Then there are EA's other titles. EA isn't a little indie game company, but a Multi-Billion Dollar enterprise. TS4 bringing home 1 Billion of that multi billions.
And my point was that even IF they were paid ONLY 15$/hr, then 1.6mil would be peanuts and no way enough to cover the costs of one EP.
One EP for TS4 is never going to cost this team 1.6 million. How about mere thousands is closer to the truth. That would also include a lion's share going to marketing and PR. What you may not understand is everyone is paid and keeps working even if they aren't on a current EP etc. But are making content or running code for another pack. Yes, that costs money for those salaries to continue. However, Maxis also out sources a lot of this game to freelance developers or companies. It isn't costing them 1.6 million to build any EP in TS4. Maybe less than half of that for all costs.
I replied to someone who claimed that 1.6mil is way above what an EP production costs are. Complete and full production costs. Including payment for stuff that is outsourced, wages for their in-house employees, costs related to the building they are in, expenses.
If you think that that money would cover the development of a pack that takes well over a year to bring from concept to release, good for you.
So, okay, since the coders are absolutely not paid 15$/hr. Let's say it's 30$hr. Say they work 40hr/week, 50 weeks in a year. THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL.
1.6mil covers those wages for 25 employees for a year. Or 50 for 6 months. That's just wages for in-house employees.
Say and EP takes 2 years to make. That massive 1.6mil? Only covers wages for 12 people for that time and nothing else. So is each EP only produced by 12 people on their own, sitting in a field with no electricity, water, or other amenities?
Also, those freelancers and other companies that Maxis outsources to? They don't work for free and that payment counts as production costs.
In a company this big, 1.6mil is not enough to cover the production costs of anything.
Sounds like the same complaints we heard with Sims 3 - but I think if people who feel that way they need to go find a different game for a while. I love the Sims games and do not feel that way at all. I enjoy every day I get to play my Sims games so i fail to understand that statement. The games do not play themselves they play as we guide them to play so why blame just the games?
They do and are still told not to support the EA Listen and EA Abuse movement. There is no pleasing Simmers no matter which Sims game they play. But yes a lot of the problems that the Sims 3 had, the Sims 4 is still doing and staying silent didn't solve anything either.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Developers don't make $15.00 an hour. They make way beyond that, and if they don't, they change jobs to find someone who will pay them more. I don't think EA pays by the hour anymore, not since they were criticized and fined for working employess overtime and not paying (weekends etc.) years ago. I'm pretty sure developers are on a salary/contract. EA's TS4 made one billion last year. That was probably across all platforms it is currently on, but a billion is no drop in the bucket for one title. Then there are EA's other titles. EA isn't a little indie game company, but a Multi-Billion Dollar enterprise. TS4 bringing home 1 Billion of that multi billions.
Yeah that is still more money than I'll see in a life time. Then again there are still some rich Simmers that still profit off the Sims name too with playing forced ads on their site which I don't think it is right for them to complain about financial issues too especially if they buy their friends through giveaways and force ads through illegal means while also promoting pirating on their sites.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Sounds like the same complaints we heard with Sims 3 - but I think if people who feel that way they need to go find a different game for a while. I love the Sims games and do not feel that way at all. I enjoy every day I get to play my Sims games so i fail to understand that statement. The games do not play themselves they play as we guide them to play so why blame just the games?
They do and are still told not to support the EA Listen and EA Abuse movement. There is no pleasing Simmers no matter which Sims game they play. But yes a lot of the problems that the Sims 3 had, the Sims 4 is still doing and staying silent didn't solve anything either.
We got jailed for that kind of protesting in Sims 3. Several of my dear friends got jailed for speaking up and never came back they were embarassed by the jailing business.
ETA - I went back to my Sims 3 page and all my messages are gone. So i guess I cannot prove anything.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I'd like to turn that around: they shouldn't have permabanned those people back then, if that indeed happened for merely being critical. I have been jailed and banned as well by the way. It hasn't chased me away, doing that's a member's own call, can't blame others for that.
People should not be banned for criticising the sims 4. That’s ridiculous and childish. People have different opinions and it’s more than a little dictatorship like to suggest that someone with a differing opinion should be banned.
I slept over it and woke up still not believing how someone is actually advocating for fellow simmers to be permabanned, just for having an opinion. I also find it hard to believe people were ever (perma)banned just for criticizing Sims 3 to be honest. When I joined here in 2013, Sims 3 bashing was a sport, a fashion. There definitely wasn’t an atmosphere of ‘oh we rather shouldn’t do that because we might get into trouble’, I was literally attacked and ridiculed for merely loving the game. It’s possible Sims 3 bashing suited EA by then of course, with Sims 4 in the making.
I slept over it and woke up still not believing how someone is actually advocating for fellow simmers to be permabanned, just for having an opinion. I also find it hard to believe people were ever (perma)banned just for criticizing Sims 3 to be honest. When I joined here in 2013, Sims 3 bashing was a sport, a fashion. There definitely wasn’t an atmosphere of ‘oh we rather shouldn’t do that because we might get into trouble’, I was literally attacked and ridiculed for merely loving the game. It’s possible Sims 3 bashing suited EA by then of course, with Sims 4 in the making.
I find it hard to believe that people were actually jailed over opinions that were negative on TS3. I was on the BBS for TS2 and the forums for TS3 and I do remember a lot of people being critical of both games. Some might have been banned for being rude while making a point?
I did some math the other day. I watched that release trailer for DU. So did 40k other people. 40k x $40... you can do the math just as easy as I can, and in no way did one DLC cost them 1.6 million to make so you can imagine the types of profits they are seeing. (Of course not all of those people will buy it at full price, and others who didn't watch it will so it will likely equal out or be even more money in their pockets, certainly not less than that I would imagine). Yes there's employees to pay, equipment for work etc, but again, not 1.6m worth. I'm thinking EA can very well afford to pump some money back into bug fixes and fix TS4, probably even re-work it so it's not so shallow. Much more than what we actually see for fixes, and now they even save money on packing because they're not shipping discs! (Oh and the money saved on discs too!) Will they though? Likely not.
All that money though, in no way is this franchise dead. Probably far from it. Some of us are tired of their shenanigans but 40k people just to watch one release trailer (and that's just as it launched, never mind after)... Some of us might not like the direction it's going, but I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon either. For every me they lose, they probably just gain 2 or 3 more.
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
Developers don't make $15.00 an hour. They make way beyond that, and if they don't, they change jobs to find someone who will pay them more. I don't think EA pays by the hour anymore, not since they were criticized and fined for working employess overtime and not paying (weekends etc.) years ago. I'm pretty sure developers are on a salary/contract. EA's TS4 made one billion last year. That was probably across all platforms it is currently on, but a billion is no drop in the bucket for one title. Then there are EA's other titles. EA isn't a little indie game company, but a Multi-Billion Dollar enterprise. TS4 bringing home 1 Billion of that multi billions.
And my point was that even IF they were paid ONLY 15$/hr, then 1.6mil would be peanuts and no way enough to cover the costs of one EP.
One EP for TS4 is never going to cost this team 1.6 million. How about mere thousands is closer to the truth. That would also include a lion's share going to marketing and PR. What you may not understand is everyone is paid and keeps working even if they aren't on a current EP etc. But are making content or running code for another pack. Yes, that costs money for those salaries to continue. However, Maxis also out sources a lot of this game to freelance developers or companies. It isn't costing them 1.6 million to build any EP in TS4. Maybe less than half of that for all costs.
I replied to someone who claimed that 1.6mil is way above what an EP production costs are. Complete and full production costs. Including payment for stuff that is outsourced, wages for their in-house employees, costs related to the building they are in, expenses.
If you think that that money would cover the development of a pack that takes well over a year to bring from concept to release, good for you.
So, okay, since the coders are absolutely not paid 15$/hr. Let's say it's 30$hr. Say they work 40hr/week, 50 weeks in a year. THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL.
1.6mil covers those wages for 25 employees for a year. Or 50 for 6 months. That's just wages for in-house employees.
Say and EP takes 2 years to make. That massive 1.6mil? Only covers wages for 12 people for that time and nothing else. So is each EP only produced by 12 people on their own, sitting in a field with no electricity, water, or other amenities?
Also, those freelancers and other companies that Maxis outsources to? They don't work for free and that payment counts as production costs.
In a company this big, 1.6mil is not enough to cover the production costs of anything.
Over on glassdoor site you can see what EA pays it's employees. True they aren't making as much as the CEO nor are they living high on a hog, compared to other type work that requires coding, however, what they do make (yearly salary) is double what someone where I live would make digging a ditch or hard labor. So, where I live, what they make is considered 'rich' and living on easy street for sitting in a big building, having fun and goofing off with trying to dress a gord or something, (shown over on twitter) and lots of perks such as games and activities going on in the building, and lots of freedom to experiment and try things. Where I live these type jobs would be considered pie jobs. An intern at EA get paid by the hour, most everyone else is on a salary with lots of perks. And as I said the greatest share or best salary seems go to a CM or someone in marketing etc. I know they have to pay people, and keep operations going. I did attend business college at one time, but I sincerely doubt it costs EA 1.6 million for a TS4 EP. It might cost that or double that for DLC to one of their other games, but I doubt it does for TS4. If it does someone is over paid. That 1.6 million cost for one DLC isn't the whole yearly profit and loss. They are making money in so many other ways. And why they can boast of one billion for TS4. EA would drop TS4 in a heartbeat if it was a negative if it was costing them more to make than to sell.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I slept over it and woke up still not believing how someone is actually advocating for fellow simmers to be permabanned, just for having an opinion. I also find it hard to believe people were ever (perma)banned just for criticizing Sims 3 to be honest. When I joined here in 2013, Sims 3 bashing was a sport, a fashion. There definitely wasn’t an atmosphere of ‘oh we rather shouldn’t do that because we might get into trouble’, I was literally attacked and ridiculed for merely loving the game. It’s possible Sims 3 bashing suited EA by then of course, with Sims 4 in the making.
Sims 3 bashing is still very much a sport here and in many other forums and even now EA encourage it. Especially on social media. I wouldn’t have thought it was a good marketing tool to criticise your own product but then again EA has some bizarre practices.
And for what it’s worth when I was joined this forum back in Feb 2015 I criticised the sims 3- I didn’t get banned. I probably criticised it at some point when it had its own forum and when I was on the BBS and I didn’t get banned, warned or anything. I suggest it’s a case of not what you say, but how it’s said that most likely cause a ban.
@Cinebar I don't know what you're considering production costs of an EP, honestly.
We know that an EP takes way longer than 6 months. Probably somewhere around 2 years, rounded up. We also know that devs get paid somewhere in the region of 100k per year. That's 200k for one dev for an EP. Do you think it's only 8 people working on a pack?
This is basic math.
100,000$ for one dev
2 years per EP
1,600,000$ = salary for 8 people working on a pack. No other expenses.
We're talking 1.6 MILLION dollars. Not billion.
For what it's worth, they most definitely make way more than that money per each pack. My point though is literally only that the 1.6million mentioned in this conversation is by far not too much cost per expansion or game pack. Not about who's overpaid, what's mismanaged, how much EA actually makes per pack.
Just that the production costs - which include staff salaries, location expenses, outsourced content, marketing and more - of an EP are way above 1.6million.
ETA: Consider this Maxis, with the three or four big packs (or ideas) out of the way what has TS4 done that is so amazing to justify 29+ packs, (to it's players) rather than fill your purses? If we remove the three or four big things players always will want, Seasons, Pets, University or Education packs, and some sort of OFB ability pack, what has TS4 done with all the other packs that are so amazing and innovative no one could have lived without them? Not much. Group activity is ok but it doesn't actually work half the time, so trying to be fair, there was nothing in TS4 (other than big packs they will always want) to have justified milking the public.
This. This is it right here. Aside from the myriad other problems that TS4 suffers from, I think that you've put your finger on what stands out about TS4 -- nothing.
Each sequel in the series had a signature innovation. TS2 went full 3-D. Plus, families became truly generational as aging and several new life-stages were introduced. TS3 introduced open worlds, plus a great transportation system that included fully functional bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, taxis, and personal cars.
On the other hand, I have to think really hard about what signature gameplay innovations there have been for TS4. There is not one overarching innovation that was introduced in the Sims 4 base game, not one. CAS is great and so is the build mode. However, what was introduced in TS4 that made the game decidedly unique and a step forward from the other games? I can't think anything that doesn't require paid DLC.
In my estimation, the only thing that makes TS4 unique is that the base game was so stripped down that features that were considered base game in previous games now requires additional infusions of cash.
ETA: Consider this Maxis, with the three or four big packs (or ideas) out of the way what has TS4 done that is so amazing to justify 29+ packs, (to it's players) rather than fill your purses? If we remove the three or four big things players always will want, Seasons, Pets, University or Education packs, and some sort of OFB ability pack, what has TS4 done with all the other packs that are so amazing and innovative no one could have lived without them? Not much. Group activity is ok but it doesn't actually work half the time, so trying to be fair, there was nothing in TS4 (other than big packs they will always want) to have justified milking the public.
This. This is it right here. Aside from the myriad other problems that TS4 suffers from, I think that you've put your finger on what stands out about TS4 -- nothing.
Each sequel in the series had a signature innovation. TS2 went full 3-D. Plus, families became truly generational as aging and several new life-stages were introduced. TS3 introduced open worlds, plus a great transportation system that included fully functional bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, taxis, and personal cars.
On the other hand, I have to think really hard about what signature gameplay innovations there have been for TS4. There is not one overarching innovation that was introduced in the Sims 4 base game, not one. CAS is great and so is the build mode. However, what was introduced in TS4 that made the game decidedly unique and a step forward from the other games? I can't think anything that doesn't require paid DLC.
In my estimation, the only thing that makes TS4 unique is that the base game was so stripped down that features that were considered base game in previous games now requires additional infusions of cash.
Cinebar, you hit the nail right on the head.
Well - like all other products now a days that give less for your money (everything does even look how much smaller content amounts are in almost all products) - you can always choose not to buy. I buy because the game still keeps me occupied and still offers enough play I am usually satisfied but if I felt like you do - I'd probably not buy. I am glad I don't feel that way and do still enjoy the games.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
@Writin_Reg
I didn't want to bring food into this conversation but I swear I was complaining about that to my family! I was telling them this game is exactly like all of the amazing foods I use to love, they either stopped making them or reduced in quality. As well as movies, books, etc. Its all about visuals these day but the quality is lacking. That's why I have no faith in TS5. I just try to enjoy the game for what it is. It's funny you mentioned that.
Hey, thought i'd add my two cents, If I can play a game fer 6-8 hours, go to bed and wake up wanting to play some more fer months on end, then that to me is a good game. I could play the sims 4 on my old computer before sims 3, so I feel they did a good job making the game more accessable fer people who don't have the money fer new computers (or know how fer new parts). I also appreciate how beautiful sims 4 is, definitely the most visually appealing . As far as content, I saw someone saying if you took out some key packs it wouldn't have good playability, but Jungle Adventure (is fun and beautiful), Strangertown (is fun and weird) and GTW (love being a scientist) are all great in their own ways too (even if you took seasons or pets away). This is all just my opinion of course and i'm not trying to invalidate anyone elses opinion, but fer me this franchise is still wonderful and I always look forward to whatever they come out with next. It'd be nice if they introduce an option to load whole neighbourhoods one day though, lol.
Comments
That's interesting math but it's not like they take in that whole amount of money as it is.
I'm not saying that EA doesn't make ridiculous amounts of money, but simplifying it to this... that's not how it works.
For what it's worth, that 1.6mil pays 50 employees on 15$/hr for a year. 1) no way are most of the employees on that hourly rate, 2) no way is there only 50 employees on the Sims team 3) it takes months to make one pack, from inception to release likely well over a year.
So no, even if all the 40k people who watched the trailer bought the EP on release date and at full price, it wouldn't pay for it.
Of course, they make way more money than that, they pay out way more money for wages and other expenses. They could and should invest more back into the game. But the math you did? That's not it.
I did say some gets cycled back into the employees. Some back into equipment and I'm sure there's building rent too (which I did not mention). 1.6m is a lot though and there is a lot left over. A lot. Likely some of those employees (I would hope) make a bit more that $15/hr as well. Again though, none of their cost would equal 1.6m unless they were grossly mismanaged. That was the point. Also, that's just one EP. They are definitely flush enough with just that math (with allowing the costs of course to make it) to do way better than they are (as far as quality goes). It does show just how well they are doing and how far from dead this franchise is.
ETA: Consider this Maxis, with the three or four big packs (or ideas) out of the way what has TS4 done that is so amazing to justify 29+ packs, (to it's players) rather than fill your purses? If we remove the three or four big things players always will want, Seasons, Pets, University or Education packs, and some sort of OFB ability pack, what has TS4 done with all the other packs that are so amazing and innovative no one could have lived without them? Not much. Group activity is ok but it doesn't actually work half the time, so trying to be fair, there was nothing in TS4 (other than big packs they will always want) to have justified milking the public.
This reminds me about the time I had a vampire and human soulmate sims out on a date. And another vampire went into an outrage and bit the human girlfriend sim. All the while standing right next to her was her vampire boyfriend still smiling listlessly into the air while she got but until she fainted with her butt sticking up into the air like sims do.
I'm like sooooooo..... your not gonna react in any shape or form? Not angry at the other vampire? Not concerned or sad about his girlfriend or ANYTHING at all! It totally kicked me out of the immersion and I went back to poses and imagination. 😑
I haven’t had that exact scenario but I can truely believe it. I see it in other people’s games where sims just stood there watching with dumb expressions on their faces whilst a sim cast magical spells outside of RoM. I had a kid sitting on the couch eating ice cream watching his Dad make out with the mail carrier whilst his Mother was in the next room. Kid just sat there with a vacant, soul less, dead behind the eyes expression. That just wouldn’t have happened in the sims 2. A game ten years older still beats the latest game hands down. That’s sad, in fact it’s pathetic. I even had a situation where my own vampire sim broke into a sims house and i was really pleased as I didn’t know that was a thing; only for it to be ruined when my vampire became energised for whatever reason and did the energised walk proudly up to Eliza and hip bumped her. Which Eliza was cool with. Because obviously it’s perfectly normal for a vampire to break in the wee small hours and come over and hip bump you. Happens all the time right?
No wonder we can’t/don’t have burglars. Sims don’t give a rats backside. And if they don’t care? Why should we care? I’m a writer, if I write a scene I want my readers to feel something for the characters, I want my characters emotions to flow off the page. If I wrote what I described above as a scene in a book the characters would be the flattest, one dimensional characters ever that no one would care for.
Your math is still not right. Or rather, your view of what's a lot of money in these things. 1.6mil really isn't as much money as you think, not in a company this big. Not with the operating costs that they have.
How many of EA's 9000 employees are working on The Sims? It's not 50. Which is the number of employees who would be paid for a year if they were only earning 15$/hr. That's it, that's all that the 1.6mil pays for. This is a company that deals in billions, not millions.
Is enough of the income from Sims being put back into the development of the game? Probably not. That's not what I was addressing
My point is that no, 1.6mil really isn't all that much money considering the size of the team & the costs to pay them. It's a lot of money for a regular person, sure. But a company with 9k employees? 1.6mil is a drop in the ocean.
Think this way: they have, supposedly, 200million active players. If even a tenth of them buys the new EP, it's 800 million. Now THAT is a number that is a lot. How much of that goes back into the development of the next pack is anyone's guess (besides "could be more" which is always true). But that's not the point I was making.
Developers don't make $15.00 an hour. They make way beyond that, and if they don't, they change jobs to find someone who will pay them more. I don't think EA pays by the hour anymore, not since they were criticized and fined for working employess overtime and not paying (weekends etc.) years ago. I'm pretty sure developers are on a salary/contract. EA's TS4 made one billion last year. That was probably across all platforms it is currently on, but a billion is no drop in the bucket for one title. Then there are EA's other titles. EA isn't a little indie game company, but a Multi-Billion Dollar enterprise. TS4 bringing home 1 Billion of that multi billions.
And my point was that even IF they were paid ONLY 15$/hr, then 1.6mil would be peanuts and no way enough to cover the costs of one EP.
One EP for TS4 is never going to cost this team 1.6 million. How about mere thousands is closer to the truth. That would also include a lion's share going to marketing and PR. What you may not understand is everyone is paid and keeps working even if they aren't on a current EP etc. But are making content or running code for another pack. Yes, that costs money for those salaries to continue. However, Maxis also out sources a lot of this game to freelance developers or companies. It isn't costing them 1.6 million to build any EP in TS4. Maybe less than half of that for all costs.
I replied to someone who claimed that 1.6mil is way above what an EP production costs are. Complete and full production costs. Including payment for stuff that is outsourced, wages for their in-house employees, costs related to the building they are in, expenses.
If you think that that money would cover the development of a pack that takes well over a year to bring from concept to release, good for you.
So, okay, since the coders are absolutely not paid 15$/hr. Let's say it's 30$hr. Say they work 40hr/week, 50 weeks in a year. THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL.
1.6mil covers those wages for 25 employees for a year. Or 50 for 6 months. That's just wages for in-house employees.
Say and EP takes 2 years to make. That massive 1.6mil? Only covers wages for 12 people for that time and nothing else. So is each EP only produced by 12 people on their own, sitting in a field with no electricity, water, or other amenities?
Also, those freelancers and other companies that Maxis outsources to? They don't work for free and that payment counts as production costs.
In a company this big, 1.6mil is not enough to cover the production costs of anything.
Factor in the rent in the area:
https://www.zillow.com/homes/redwood-city,-CA_rb/
Yeah that is still more money than I'll see in a life time. Then again there are still some rich Simmers that still profit off the Sims name too with playing forced ads on their site which I don't think it is right for them to complain about financial issues too especially if they buy their friends through giveaways and force ads through illegal means while also promoting pirating on their sites.
We got jailed for that kind of protesting in Sims 3. Several of my dear friends got jailed for speaking up and never came back they were embarassed by the jailing business.
ETA - I went back to my Sims 3 page and all my messages are gone. So i guess I cannot prove anything.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Wow.
I find it hard to believe that people were actually jailed over opinions that were negative on TS3. I was on the BBS for TS2 and the forums for TS3 and I do remember a lot of people being critical of both games. Some might have been banned for being rude while making a point?
Over on glassdoor site you can see what EA pays it's employees. True they aren't making as much as the CEO nor are they living high on a hog, compared to other type work that requires coding, however, what they do make (yearly salary) is double what someone where I live would make digging a ditch or hard labor. So, where I live, what they make is considered 'rich' and living on easy street for sitting in a big building, having fun and goofing off with trying to dress a gord or something, (shown over on twitter) and lots of perks such as games and activities going on in the building, and lots of freedom to experiment and try things. Where I live these type jobs would be considered pie jobs. An intern at EA get paid by the hour, most everyone else is on a salary with lots of perks. And as I said the greatest share or best salary seems go to a CM or someone in marketing etc. I know they have to pay people, and keep operations going. I did attend business college at one time, but I sincerely doubt it costs EA 1.6 million for a TS4 EP. It might cost that or double that for DLC to one of their other games, but I doubt it does for TS4. If it does someone is over paid. That 1.6 million cost for one DLC isn't the whole yearly profit and loss. They are making money in so many other ways. And why they can boast of one billion for TS4. EA would drop TS4 in a heartbeat if it was a negative if it was costing them more to make than to sell.
Sims 3 bashing is still very much a sport here and in many other forums and even now EA encourage it. Especially on social media. I wouldn’t have thought it was a good marketing tool to criticise your own product but then again EA has some bizarre practices.
And for what it’s worth when I was joined this forum back in Feb 2015 I criticised the sims 3- I didn’t get banned. I probably criticised it at some point when it had its own forum and when I was on the BBS and I didn’t get banned, warned or anything. I suggest it’s a case of not what you say, but how it’s said that most likely cause a ban.
We know that an EP takes way longer than 6 months. Probably somewhere around 2 years, rounded up. We also know that devs get paid somewhere in the region of 100k per year. That's 200k for one dev for an EP. Do you think it's only 8 people working on a pack?
This is basic math.
100,000$ for one dev
2 years per EP
1,600,000$ = salary for 8 people working on a pack. No other expenses.
We're talking 1.6 MILLION dollars. Not billion.
For what it's worth, they most definitely make way more than that money per each pack. My point though is literally only that the 1.6million mentioned in this conversation is by far not too much cost per expansion or game pack. Not about who's overpaid, what's mismanaged, how much EA actually makes per pack.
Just that the production costs - which include staff salaries, location expenses, outsourced content, marketing and more - of an EP are way above 1.6million.
This. This is it right here. Aside from the myriad other problems that TS4 suffers from, I think that you've put your finger on what stands out about TS4 -- nothing.
Each sequel in the series had a signature innovation. TS2 went full 3-D. Plus, families became truly generational as aging and several new life-stages were introduced. TS3 introduced open worlds, plus a great transportation system that included fully functional bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, taxis, and personal cars.
On the other hand, I have to think really hard about what signature gameplay innovations there have been for TS4. There is not one overarching innovation that was introduced in the Sims 4 base game, not one. CAS is great and so is the build mode. However, what was introduced in TS4 that made the game decidedly unique and a step forward from the other games? I can't think anything that doesn't require paid DLC.
In my estimation, the only thing that makes TS4 unique is that the base game was so stripped down that features that were considered base game in previous games now requires additional infusions of cash.
Cinebar, you hit the nail right on the head.
Well - like all other products now a days that give less for your money (everything does even look how much smaller content amounts are in almost all products) - you can always choose not to buy. I buy because the game still keeps me occupied and still offers enough play I am usually satisfied but if I felt like you do - I'd probably not buy. I am glad I don't feel that way and do still enjoy the games.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I didn't want to bring food into this conversation but I swear I was complaining about that to my family! I was telling them this game is exactly like all of the amazing foods I use to love, they either stopped making them or reduced in quality. As well as movies, books, etc. Its all about visuals these day but the quality is lacking. That's why I have no faith in TS5. I just try to enjoy the game for what it is. It's funny you mentioned that.
If I can play a game fer 6-8 hours, go to bed and wake up wanting to play some more fer months on end, then that to me is a good game.
I could play the sims 4 on my old computer before sims 3, so I feel they did a good job making the game more accessable fer people who don't have the money fer new computers (or know how fer new parts).
I also appreciate how beautiful sims 4 is, definitely the most visually appealing .
As far as content, I saw someone saying if you took out some key packs it wouldn't have good playability, but Jungle Adventure (is fun and beautiful), Strangertown (is fun and weird) and GTW (love being a scientist) are all great in their own ways too (even if you took seasons or pets away).
This is all just my opinion of course and i'm not trying to invalidate anyone elses opinion, but fer me this franchise is still wonderful and I always look forward to whatever they come out with next.
It'd be nice if they introduce an option to load whole neighbourhoods one day though, lol.