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please make the sims in sims 4 more alive

Comments

  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,463 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    [

    The difference between my moral compass and EA's? Hey kids tell us about how you made your friends and put them in the game and 'got even with them'. That's EA's new ad.

    My moral compass, no, I have never made anyone I know in real life to put in game to get even with them. Even I have my principles. Now, who has the moral highground?

    It never ceases to amaze me how some can totally misrepresent things to suit their own narrative. The purpose of the new ad is to reach out to those who may be dealing with challenges and allow those players to feel comfortable with whatever scenario that brings them pain in real life. Not to exact revenge on anyone.
    What narrative? The one where recognizable real life people are exposed without giving permission, without being warned even, because their 16 yr old relative was given the opportunity to give their bitter and one sided vision on things in a world wide ad? There never is one truth, every coin has two sides. It’s unbelievable a gaming company invites young people to present just one side of that coin behind the backs of their parents/siblings/school mates/whatever with only one actual goal: to sell their game. That is my narrative and you’re welcome to disagree but that doesn’t make it “misrepresenting” per se. It just means you see it differently. “Getting back at” was literally in that casting ad. How is that not revenge?

    For me "getting back at" is as simple as being allowed to live your life the way you want to and not letting negative, unsupportive forces hold you back. Not tormenting those who refuse to accept you as you are. So I agree we do see it differently. Living well is the best revenge.
    As you may know English isn’t my first language so you made me doubt, but when I google the phrasing, every dictionary says it means something along the lines of “to punish someone because that person has done something wrong to you”, or “take revenge on, be revenged on, exact/wreak revenge on, get one's revenge on, avenge oneself on, take vengeance on, get even with, settle a/the score with, pay back, pay out, retaliate on/against, take reprisals against, exact retribution on, let someone see how it feels, give someone their just deserts, give someone a dose/taste of their own medicine, give as good as one gets; give/return like for like, give tit for tat, take an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth); get, give someone their comeuppance; get one's own back on”. Punish, revenge. I appreciate that for you the phrasing doesn’t necessarily mean that, but for me a lot of what was asked there felt... not right.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,463 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    [

    The difference between my moral compass and EA's? Hey kids tell us about how you made your friends and put them in the game and 'got even with them'. That's EA's new ad.

    My moral compass, no, I have never made anyone I know in real life to put in game to get even with them. Even I have my principles. Now, who has the moral highground?

    It never ceases to amaze me how some can totally misrepresent things to suit their own narrative. The purpose of the new ad is to reach out to those who may be dealing with challenges and allow those players to feel comfortable with whatever scenario that brings them pain in real life. Not to exact revenge on anyone.

    Video games are not a healthy substitute for therapy. I don’t care how much comfort someone gets from a video game, that doesn’t enable the studio developing the game to prey on those traumas in order to sell copies of their game. It’s amazing how marketing can make predatory ads like that appear normal. It’s advertising a bad message that this is more than a video game but also some sort of therapeutic thing. Hardly a stance this studio should be peddling to kids (who more often than not vastly exaggerate their “trauma”).

    I wasn't commenting on the effectiveness of video games as therapy. Just that the purpose of the ad was not to entice players to play in order to seek revenge on their adversaries.

    Well she does have a point about “getting revenge” or whatever being explicitly part of the casting call. Hard to deny that.

    The video itself is to entice people to buy this game because it will help their problems. That’s the message they are sending. Not “hey this game is so much fun!” Instead it’s along the lines of “I was bullied, I did not fit in, I was different and Sims fixed that”. I don’t care what they were trying to do, because what they actually did was make an ad in incredibly poor taste that’s ONLY purpose is to manipulate emotionally fragile people and especially kids into thinking this game will make them happy and fix their self-proclaimed terrible lives. Terrible message to send!
    And I can’t help strongly agreeing with this.
  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 891 Member
    What I don't understand is where this whole "the ad is about getting revenge at someone" narrative is coming from.
    The ad for the casting call has one point in a list of 20 examples that mentioned "getting back at" someone. Everything else was aimed at how Sims provided an outlet that players often can't find in their immediate surroundings. Things like coming out, being bullied, exploring creativity and career directions, etc.

    The bottom line is, the game does help people get away from a reality where they're facing stress (and honestly, to diminish people's stressors as "self-proclaimed" and "exaggerated" is as insensitive as this one ad supposedly is). 100% escapism isn't healthy, no, but it's a valid mechanism that does help people get from a point where they don't know how else to cope to a point where they can. And for a lot of people, depending on their surroundings, a fantasy world is the only accessible way to make that transition.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,662 Member
    What I don't understand is where this whole "the ad is about getting revenge at someone" narrative is coming from.
    The ad for the casting call has one point in a list of 20 examples that mentioned "getting back at" someone. Everything else was aimed at how Sims provided an outlet that players often can't find in their immediate surroundings. Things like coming out, being bullied, exploring creativity and career directions, etc.

    The bottom line is, the game does help people get away from a reality where they're facing stress (and honestly, to diminish people's stressors as "self-proclaimed" and "exaggerated" is as insensitive as this one ad supposedly is). 100% escapism isn't healthy, no, but it's a valid mechanism that does help people get from a point where they don't know how else to cope to a point where they can. And for a lot of people, depending on their surroundings, a fantasy world is the only accessible way to make that transition.

    Again, there is no reason for Maxis, EA, The Sims, anyone to glorify or beautify running away from your problems using a video game. If someone uses it that way, good for them, but as the development studio actually making the game it’s NOT appropriate to cash in on circumstances of some players to sell this game to other players who feel they share those same issues. This manipulative ad is being hidden behind “inclusion”, but it’s not! It’s pandering dangerous ideals to people who clearly are in a vulnerable mental states. If you’re going to throw around what I say in quotes at least understand the issue at hand before you do that.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,463 Member
    What I don't understand is where this whole "the ad is about getting revenge at someone" narrative is coming from.
    The ad for the casting call has one point in a list of 20 examples that mentioned "getting back at" someone. Everything else was aimed at how Sims provided an outlet that players often can't find in their immediate surroundings. Things like coming out, being bullied, exploring creativity and career directions, etc.

    The bottom line is, the game does help people get away from a reality where they're facing stress (and honestly, to diminish people's stressors as "self-proclaimed" and "exaggerated" is as insensitive as this one ad supposedly is). 100% escapism isn't healthy, no, but it's a valid mechanism that does help people get from a point where they don't know how else to cope to a point where they can. And for a lot of people, depending on their surroundings, a fantasy world is the only accessible way to make that transition.
    It’s not, the only thing that rubs people like me the wrong way I mean. That was the point that got denied here, while, as you say, it’s literally said in the ad. So, that’s one. It’s not a ‘narrative’, it’s literally in the ad. Together with ‘not fitting in your own family’ (mind you, this is asked to 16 yr olds, who often are still living at home, it’s not in the past, if it will ever be because most people don’t shake off family like some unfitting coat), whose family was unstable/dysfunctional (we’re talking about real life families here, when a family is dysfunctional, it’s also quite often very vulnerable, as is the kid who’s being asked to publically spill the beans). To me it comes across as if some advertisement department got this great idea, based on the fact some people indeed use the game to come to terms with things in real life, without taking the responsibility to properly think it through. Whether it’s ethical. In my view it’s absolutely not. That is my (and other people’s) opinion and I think it’s uncalled for to dismiss that as misrepresenting things to suit our own narrative. Suggesting we have some kind of agenda here. No, we genuinely have this opinion.

    It’s like @drake_mccarty says, things like that are very sensitive, personal, often requiring a professional approach. NO advertisement material, in the hands of marketing people who only want to use it to sell a game. It’s great the game has this impact on people, but you don’t advertise with it, you just don’t. And you don’t invite young people (kids) to openly pillory whoever wronged (or misunderstood) them in life. If you want people to play the game, show us why it’s fun to play. Leave traumas and issues to the professionals.

    Again, that’s my opinion and I don’t have any secret agenda to hold on to it. It’s not a narrative, it’s an opinion.
  • PrincessSaturnPrincessSaturn Posts: 563 Member
    SimChi wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    There is no simulating life when you avoid the misery. Misery and misfortune and cheating are as much a part of life as rainbows and roses are, as is death.

    Have to disagree. Life is not misery, misfortune and cheating. Those things are the opposite of life (and by life I mean vitality, liveliness). And yes, again, when people are making fun of burning sims (or killing them) in horrific ways, they are mentally unhealthy, and they are making light of tragedy.

    To address burning books (from the other simmers comment). Yes. I do think maybe books should be burned, because they really are vile. I never used to think that way (about burning books), and I really thought that people would never make such gross literature (or books for entertainment)... but after having been exposed to far too many vile things I have since changed my mind- and realized that I would not have some of the added trauma that I have today if I had not ever seen/read those things. The thought of having a life where I'd never been exposed to those things, and the thought of a world where they don't/can't even exist, makes me unbelievably happy.... Which is why I don't want them in a game either.


    You sound extremely biased and judgmental. Your personal experiences aren't for you to generalize and project on a whole group of people, especially by calling them "mentally ill". Do you not hear how ridiculous you sound? Mental illness isn't a joke or to be used as an insult by you to people who just don't see eye to eye with you.

    But you're welcome to bury your head in the sand, just don't blame everyone else for it.
    ___________________________
    OUTER SENSHI PRIDE
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  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 891 Member
    "Stories of creating/playing with Sims of real life family (getting back at Mom/Dad, Sibling rivalry)" <- this is the *only* mention of this whole big thing about what kinda stories they were looking for in the ad. Stories meant as anecdotes, in the section that specifically veered away from serious themes. Listed along with "Creating and pull the strings in a home filled with Drama". Which is something that Sims Let's Plays frequently thrive on. Not a huge main point like some here made it to be.

    The narrative I was referring to was from comments like Cinebar's earlier in this thread:
    Hey kids tell us about how you made your friends and put them in the game and 'got even with them'. That's EA's new ad.
    Because no, that's not what the video was about, not even remotely. None of those kinds of stories were even *in* the video at all.

    For me, the video was a testimonial from players who found that the game helped them and wanted to share that story, maybe to show others that it might help them too. I'm someone who found Sims equally helpful at a time when I needed it, so I connected with it.

    If you don't like it and find it distasteful, that's your opinion. We can agree to disagree on that.

    There are some here who definitely present things as facts (and thus a narrative) that are just as much an opinion and a guess as to what the intent of the video was. And as I mentioned above, it's definitely misrepresenting things when someone claims that the entire testimonial video was aimed at luring in kids who want to get even/get revenge on someone. That was my entire point.

    As for what the intent of the video was? To me it was to show the amount of good impact SIms had over the years. For some, it hit the mark. For others, it clearly didn't. Would I have liked if they chose a wider variety of stories and age groups? It likely would've gotten the point across better, though I'm sure there would be some who'd still find a way to make EA into the evil overlord they think it is. (we can also only guess where this idea came from initially, which is a whole different topic altogether).

    I have my opinions, you have yours. All I was trying to clear up is the misrepresentation of the casting call and the resulting video, since they somehow snowballed into something it definitely wasn't.
  • SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 502 Member
    Sims 4 is more like rated 10+ because the Sims go out to drink juices, the fights are just Sims batting their hands, & the woohoo in beds are just the Sims moving around under the blankets. Only naughty mods corupes the Sims.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,662 Member
    edited August 13
    Can’t say I’ve seen any other video games using this tactic to sell games. Sims is hardly the only video game you can lose yourself in, or use to escape your problems, but you don’t see other publishers making manipulative videos like that - because it’s in poor taste. Regardless of the intentions, there are lines you shouldn’t cross and they went too far with this ad.

    It preys on vulnerability. That is undeniable. If they wanted to make a video that wasn’t pandering unhealthy ideals they could have picked more than your run of the mill, 21st century trauma. It’s not my intention to offend anyone, but EA selected what content they wanted to put in the ad and they crafted the ad with those stories for a reason. Hell, they were only looking for specific stories to tell in this ad and all of them were about using Sims to get a reprieve from a terrible life. Missing their mark is the least of the videos problems.

    ETA: Maybe EA should hire some people with a background in social work. Maybe then they would understand the issues they’re tackling head on in that ad are very serious, and they can have serious long-term implications if they aren’t dealt with! Suggesting this game will help, we’ll you know what that is irresponsible and frankly it’s social commentary the studio doesn’t need to get involved in - but they LOVE inserting social commentary into everything these days.
  • LquinnLquinn Posts: 210 Member
    Maybe a slider should be added to the game that increases or decreases random events based on the play style of the gamer. Could be a big code change, but I am not sure. I am a Systems Analysis not a programmer.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,941 Member
    Wow. There's a lot of people in this thread taking the perception of Sims games and marketing to a whole new dramatic level. "But...think of the children!!" :D

    Kids are a lot more resilient than folks are giving them credit for. Some of them actually played Sims 1 back in the day and came out just fine, lol. These days they're all playing GTA V or whatever. I think they can handle death, fire and consequences in Sims 4 and some cheesy marketing ads. It's not that deep.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,662 Member
    edited August 13
    @LiELF please refrain from generalizing like that. Go work a few years in social work and you will see kids are as resilient as the household they come from. Broken homes more often than not result in broken kids/teens/adults who NEED help of some sort. That is fact, it’s not 100% but it’s rare to have a broken home result in someone with no issues stemming from that whatsoever.

    Yeah kids can handle those themes. That isn’t the issue here, the issue is hot topic social issues being exploited for a quick buck by a company that would rather glorify unhealthy behavior than encourage overcoming it.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,941 Member
    @LiELF please refrain from generalizing like that. Go work a few years in social work and you will see kids are as resilient as the household they come from. Broken homes more often than not result in broken kids/teens/adults who NEED help of some sort. That is fact, it’s not 100% but it’s rare to have a broken home result in someone with no issues stemming from that whatsoever.

    Yeah kids can handle those themes. That isn’t the issue here, the issue is hot topic social issues being exploited for a quick buck by a company that would rather glorify unhealthy behavior than encourage overcoming it.

    I'm well aware of the realities of the downtrodden, I assure you. And in fact, it's because of this that I think it's a little vulgar and distasteful to use such examples just to bash EA marketing, just as I find that other poster's exaggerated accusations of mental instability in deviant players to be very distasteful as well. We're talking about a game and corporate marketing and people have gone off the deep end with the level of conspiracy just to make a point. The thing is, people can make perfectly good points without resulting to exaggerations of offensive influence.

    Because yes, I agree, EA's ad is a little bit exploitative to the modern young generations in order to get them in the feels. The sensitive music, the close-ups of body language, and the sob stories are all clever manipulations to get the teens and preteens of today to relate, while the company collects empathy points from its newest consumers. But neither am I surprised nor offended because that's just how marketing works, they haven't done anything new or particularly vile. Maybe living in the US has desensitized me to it because gross corporate marketing runs rampant here and we have ads within ads all over the place trying to get their target's attention in any way they can. It's practically Dystopian. But I also think it's a stretch to say they were "glorifying" unhealthy behavior due to one line in the whole ad. By that token, Sims players have been doing that themselves for years on these very forums anyway, haven't they? Technically, the EA ad didn't even promote anything different than what we've been seeing Simmers promote on the public forums since its inception.

  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,463 Member
    "Stories of creating/playing with Sims of real life family (getting back at Mom/Dad, Sibling rivalry)" <- this is the *only* mention of this whole big thing about what kinda stories they were looking for in the ad. Stories meant as anecdotes, in the section that specifically veered away from serious themes. Listed along with "Creating and pull the strings in a home filled with Drama". Which is something that Sims Let's Plays frequently thrive on. Not a huge main point like some here made it to be.

    The narrative I was referring to was from comments like Cinebar's earlier in this thread:
    Hey kids tell us about how you made your friends and put them in the game and 'got even with them'. That's EA's new ad.
    Because no, that's not what the video was about, not even remotely. None of those kinds of stories were even *in* the video at all.

    For me, the video was a testimonial from players who found that the game helped them and wanted to share that story, maybe to show others that it might help them too. I'm someone who found Sims equally helpful at a time when I needed it, so I connected with it.

    If you don't like it and find it distasteful, that's your opinion. We can agree to disagree on that.

    There are some here who definitely present things as facts (and thus a narrative) that are just as much an opinion and a guess as to what the intent of the video was. And as I mentioned above, it's definitely misrepresenting things when someone claims that the entire testimonial video was aimed at luring in kids who want to get even/get revenge on someone. That was my entire point.

    As for what the intent of the video was? To me it was to show the amount of good impact SIms had over the years. For some, it hit the mark. For others, it clearly didn't. Would I have liked if they chose a wider variety of stories and age groups? It likely would've gotten the point across better, though I'm sure there would be some who'd still find a way to make EA into the evil overlord they think it is. (we can also only guess where this idea came from initially, which is a whole different topic altogether).

    I have my opinions, you have yours. All I was trying to clear up is the misrepresentation of the casting call and the resulting video, since they somehow snowballed into something it definitely wasn't.
    Young-Simmers-Only.jpg
    On the right.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,463 Member
    edited August 13
    LiELF wrote: »
    Wow. There's a lot of people in this thread taking the perception of Sims games and marketing to a whole new dramatic level. "But...think of the children!!" :D

    Kids are a lot more resilient than folks are giving them credit for. Some of them actually played Sims 1 back in the day and came out just fine, lol. These days they're all playing GTA V or whatever. I think they can handle death, fire and consequences in Sims 4 and some cheesy marketing ads. It's not that deep.
    Not sure what you’re referring to so maybe my response won’t adress what you mean, but being asked about personal things in your real life that didn’t go too well, provoking kids to expose people who are near to them, is not the same thing as playing a game with some political incorrect elements. I’m all for that.
  • PrincessSaturnPrincessSaturn Posts: 563 Member

    Young-Simmers-Only.jpg



    Whoa, I hadn't seen these images before!
    ...its kind of disgusting.
    ___________________________
    OUTER SENSHI PRIDE
    tumblr_o6xw8n9C001si7rwuo1_540.gif
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,062 Member
    Young-Simmers-Only.jpg



    Whoa, I hadn't seen these images before!
    ...its kind of disgusting.

    It honestly just seems weird and forced to go and provide a specific list like that for this purpose.
  • TwicelikeyTwicelikey Posts: 126 Member
    SERVERFRA wrote: »
    Sims 4 is more like rated 10+ because the Sims go out to drink juices, the fights are just Sims batting their hands, & the woohoo in beds are just the Sims moving around under the blankets. Only naughty mods corupes the Sims.

    I'm quite positive that this is practically the same for every sims..
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,662 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Young-Simmers-Only.jpg



    Whoa, I hadn't seen these images before!
    ...its kind of disgusting.

    It honestly just seems weird and forced to go and provide a specific list like that for this purpose.

    It’s called an agenda
  • sweetface44sweetface44 Posts: 2,938 Member
    LexiBai wrote: »
    sims 4 gameplay, in general, will never measure up to previous sims games, S4 was created for kids and pre-teens to play, not for the loyal dedicated fan base of sims players who've been playing since the early 2000s
    I agree so why could they not make 2 versions beginners and advanced players would be nice I really think the sims 4 is gorgeous but the sims don’t do the game any justice.. it’s just lacking in so much detail and character.. it’s like if you don’t have a million mods the game is not even worth loading

  • WaitWhatYTWaitWhatYT Posts: 414 Member
    edited August 14
    ...Man, this thread really went places, lol.

    Just peeked in to add my support to the OP, even if it's already too late for this to happen in Sims 4 (maybe 5 but this is EA we're talking about, I'm not holding my breath).

    And to whoever thought it was a good idea to call people mentally unhealthy and advocate burning books, get a grip, people are able and SHOULD BE ABLE to distinguish between fantasy and real life without people attacking them for it. Now I understand who they sanitized the game for, it was never children, but the overly-sensitive adults, as usual 👀
  • SweetKarma13SweetKarma13 Posts: 9 New Member
    > @babsjean said:
    > I really want to love sims 4 as much as sims 2 because sims 4 is so nice to look at and has so much content and calendars and awesome add ons but...... My sims in sim 4 are so lifeless. Like robots or walking dead. I can play a family in sims 2 for 10 minutes and be totally invested in all of them. I have some sims 4 families and singles that I've been playing for hours and hours and I just don't care about them. I wish I could put my finger on what is missing.

    For me it's the wants and fears system as well as turn on/turn offs. There could be more, but this was a big part which I would like them to bring back.
  • WaitWhatYTWaitWhatYT Posts: 414 Member
    > @babsjean said:
    > I really want to love sims 4 as much as sims 2 because sims 4 is so nice to look at and has so much content and calendars and awesome add ons but...... My sims in sim 4 are so lifeless. Like robots or walking dead. I can play a family in sims 2 for 10 minutes and be totally invested in all of them. I have some sims 4 families and singles that I've been playing for hours and hours and I just don't care about them. I wish I could put my finger on what is missing.

    For me it's the wants and fears system as well as turn on/turn offs. There could be more, but this was a big part which I would like them to bring back.

    For me it's all of that, plus the memory system. Some of the fun with the Sims 2 premades was scouring their memories for all the family drama 👀

    That and somehow, the emotions actually felt weightier in 2 than they do in 4. Remember sims being furious with each other, or going into aspiration failure and needing you to pull them out of the depths of their own misery? Good times, good times...
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,941 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Wow. There's a lot of people in this thread taking the perception of Sims games and marketing to a whole new dramatic level. "But...think of the children!!" :D

    Kids are a lot more resilient than folks are giving them credit for. Some of them actually played Sims 1 back in the day and came out just fine, lol. These days they're all playing GTA V or whatever. I think they can handle death, fire and consequences in Sims 4 and some cheesy marketing ads. It's not that deep.
    Not sure what you’re referring to so maybe my response won’t adress what you mean, but being asked about personal things in your real life that didn’t go too well, provoking kids to expose people who are near to them, is not the same thing as playing a game with some political incorrect elements. I’m all for that.

    It's a casting call. A casting call is completely optional. A company puts out the information for what they are looking for, and people choose to respond. Then the company interviews/auditions the responders, who all volunteer their information (often they are paid to participate), and selects people from the lot. It's the exact same process for any media, including commercials, films, TV and even radio. The fact that they put exactly what they were looking for in their casting call means that they weren't misleading, coercing or "provoking" anyone. It's actually professional and transparent. All of those "kids" are at least sixteen, and depending on the local laws, most of the time anyone under eighteen requires parental consent anyway.

    Seriously, you guys are just putting this under a magnifying glass and trying to find cracks. It's getting kind of silly. Not only that, it's way off topic to this thread, so in response to that, I'll voice my support that Sims definitely need more "life" in them. And I wholeheartedly agree that Sims 2 Sims had amazing personalities and I would love if we got some of that flavor into Sims 4. Especially Fears, Turn-Ons and Turn-Offs, and the Chemistry system. Sims 4 Sims are desperate for individuality and some unpredictability. They need some systems that distinctly distinguish one from another. Something that override those annoying generic emotions.
  • FreechheitFreechheit Posts: 74 Member
    EA please can you make the sims more alive and fun sims 4 has basically turned into a virtual doll house only really too perfect not enough drama..

    Yes, please!
    Usually, there is not much drama in my game and I'm okay with that. But when I want drama and my game decides that it doesn't want drama... Argh!
    I downloaded the Pleasant family and wanted Angela and Lilith to dislike each other, but every second I didn't have my eyes on them and triggered mean interactions, they would start telling jokes to each other or even hug.
    Mary-Sue forbade Lilith to watch TV, but when Lilith did it anyway and Mary-Sue confronted her, they were both smiling and Lilith seemed to respond politely to her mothers suggestion, to maybe turn of the TV... It was really annoying. I wanted them to be angry. -.-
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