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please make the sims in sims 4 more alive

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  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 273 Member
    edited August 24
    Logisitcs wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    "Stories of creating/playing with Sims of real life family (getting back at Mom/Dad, Sibling rivalry)" <- this is the *only* mention of this whole big thing about what kinda stories they were looking for in the ad. Stories meant as anecdotes, in the section that specifically veered away from serious themes. Listed along with "Creating and pull the strings in a home filled with Drama". Which is something that Sims Let's Plays frequently thrive on. Not a huge main point like some here made it to be.

    The narrative I was referring to was from comments like Cinebar's earlier in this thread:
    Hey kids tell us about how you made your friends and put them in the game and 'got even with them'. That's EA's new ad.
    Because no, that's not what the video was about, not even remotely. None of those kinds of stories were even *in* the video at all.

    For me, the video was a testimonial from players who found that the game helped them and wanted to share that story, maybe to show others that it might help them too. I'm someone who found Sims equally helpful at a time when I needed it, so I connected with it.

    If you don't like it and find it distasteful, that's your opinion. We can agree to disagree on that.

    There are some here who definitely present things as facts (and thus a narrative) that are just as much an opinion and a guess as to what the intent of the video was. And as I mentioned above, it's definitely misrepresenting things when someone claims that the entire testimonial video was aimed at luring in kids who want to get even/get revenge on someone. That was my entire point.

    As for what the intent of the video was? To me it was to show the amount of good impact SIms had over the years. For some, it hit the mark. For others, it clearly didn't. Would I have liked if they chose a wider variety of stories and age groups? It likely would've gotten the point across better, though I'm sure there would be some who'd still find a way to make EA into the evil overlord they think it is. (we can also only guess where this idea came from initially, which is a whole different topic altogether).

    I have my opinions, you have yours. All I was trying to clear up is the misrepresentation of the casting call and the resulting video, since they somehow snowballed into something it definitely wasn't.
    Young-Simmers-Only.jpg
    On the right.

    What the plum is wrong with them? Just make a plum-ing full-fledged SEQUEL and stop trying to peddle diversity and inclusivity in a life simulator!!! It's not the platform nor is it appropriate!
    Hestia wrote: »
    @Logisitcs As I’ve said in other threads.... SJW pandering.

    https://gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-08-23-the-joyful-representation-of-the-sims

    "Diversity and inclusion are things we care a lot about and there's always work to be done, and I feel the same way about our game," he says. "We're not there yet. But we're going to keep taking steps and I want to keep taking even more steps to be inclusive."

    "One of the biggest challenges we run into as we try to do more things for diversity and inclusion is making sure we handle it in an appropriate way."

    "When we did support for non-binary gender, we had a lot of conversations with GLAAD about the right way to represent that. How do we do it in a way that feels inclusive and welcoming and not dictating our viewpoint?"
    (I would argue forcing players to have politically charged content in their game is "dictating" your viewpoint)

    "And it's a very hard thing. More recently, we added a bunch of Pride flags to the game, and we did a lot of research and worked with the It Gets Better Project, but when it came out our community let us know that they thought we missed the mark. We got a lot of pushback over not including a lesbian Pride flag. We thought we had done the homework, but what we heard from our community was that no, that doesn't cut it. Our lesbian players didn't feel adequately represented. "So we moved quickly to try and add one, but what we discovered was there isn't a clear consensus on the lesbian pride flag. There's actually a lot of debate. So we found ourselves asking, 'What's the right one?' The last thing I want to do is choose one and alienate half of this audience I'm trying to make it right with. So we ended up adding three from our research that felt inclusive. And we spoke not only with our partner, but also with our internal group at EA, our employee resource groups. Our goal was to make sure no matter who you were or what your viewpoint on the subject, one of those felt right to you."

    "That's how we ended up solving it, but it just demonstrates how difficult it can be to do this in a way that feels inclusive and welcoming. A lot of care goes into these, and it's the reason we can't add everything at once. And that may be part of why we don't see a lot of people doing this, because it's not easy."

    "I think everyone's life would be better if they had the opportunity to spend some time in The Sims."
    "It's a special place."

    "We make more than a game."

    This is all relevant because this is what they spend their time on. This is their focus. If only there was this much passion for giving Sims unique personalities or interesting backstories, actual consequences, life simulation, traits that mean something outside of being moodlet triggers or meaningful relationships that take time and effort. Thinking of the time and resources spent on obsessing over inclusivity when the series has been inclusive since day one back in 2000 is ridiculous. They need to focus more on making a game that's actually interesting to play for more than 15 minutes outside of CAS or build mode.

    They have their own priorities and listening to players with concerns over shallow gameplay and lifeless Sims isn't one of them.
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    Simming since 2000
  • DoodlyDoofusDoodlyDoofus Posts: 480 Member
    I feel as if at this point, Sims needs competition to whip them into shape. Kinda like how Cities Skylines came out after the latest SimCity game flopped hard. Except this time I hope EA doesn't pull an EA and just kill the Sims franchise as well and instead tries to learn from the fact that they're not the only life simulator out there....who am I kidding, EA would just make an even more stripped down version of Sims 5.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,459 Member
    edited August 24
    It’s like they witnessed something happening (and it does for some, no denying that), a side affect, and decided to turn it into a selling point. They shouldn’t in my view, it’s way too delicate and fragile and personal (!) for that. Plus, the game has always had this affect, also the versions where this wasn’t a focus for them yet. Sims is playing with life, leaving everything that happens to the player. Thát’s what causes the effect for many players they’re trying to exploit now. Funny detail: sims having a personality and reactions and a game that links consequences to actions to me seems essential for that.

    (“We thought we had done the homework, but what we heard from our community was that no, that doesn't cut it”, that’s just pathetic, sorry, and exactly what I mean; STOP doing that kind of ‘homework’, you’re just killing your goose that lays the golden eggs guys, stop trying so hard)

    ETA: a more personal note: they’re pretending to go for diversity, but in what way am I, a 50+ lady, represented in this game? I’m not. If I’d make my simself (I don’t, for me Sims isn’t about that, but for the sake of argument) I simply can’t. I can’t even pick my newspaper from the doorstep anymore :weary: And I’m constantly taking selfies, like everyone hahaaHHaHAha *sigh*
  • Evil_OneEvil_One Posts: 4,397 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    When I played Sims 2, at one point a woman knocked on my sims’ door and she was quite unpleasant (a character thing, bad mood, I don’t know). I went along with it and made my sim join in the insults, so it became a fight (a very funny one by the way). When the woman left, she threatened to spread the word in public that my sim was an awful person and she’d notice the consequences. A day later my sim got a call: the woman was offering to make it up again. So I agreed and they had a conversation and the relationship indeed improved. It’s a kind of mechanic Sims 4 most definitely doesn’t have, but neither does Sims 3. In Sims 3 it does matter if they make an enemy, but the game will completely leave it up to the player what to do with it (or ignore it, which is only impossible when they meet somewhere). I liked it when the game (Sims 2) actively tried to influence things, yet still allowing me to make the decisions where it came to the outcome.

    That's another thing unique to TS2... The Sims could experience regret and would actually act correctly depending on their personality.

    raw
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    edited August 24
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    It’s like they witnessed something happening (and it does for some, no denying that), a side affect, and decided to turn it into a selling point. They shouldn’t in my view, it’s way too delicate and fragile and personal (!) for that. Plus, the game has always had this affect, also the versions where this wasn’t a focus for them yet. Sims is playing with life, leaving everything that happens to the player. Thát’s what causes the effect for many players they’re trying to exploit now. Funny detail: sims having a personality and reactions and a game that links consequences to actions to me seems essential for that.

    (“We thought we had done the homework, but what we heard from our community was that no, that doesn't cut it”, that’s just pathetic, sorry, and exactly what I mean; STOP doing that kind of ‘homework’, you’re just killing your goose that lays the golden eggs guys, stop trying so hard)

    ETA: a more personal note: they’re pretending to go for diversity, but in what way am I, a 50+ lady, represented in this game? I’m not. If I’d make my simself (I don’t, for me Sims isn’t about that, but for the sake of argument) I simply can’t. I can’t even pick my newspaper from the doorstep anymore :weary: And I’m constantly taking selfies, like everyone hahaaHHaHAha *sigh*

    @JoAnne65 I am in my late twenties and even I agree with you.

    The simplification of The Sims 4 is what took away a lot of what made past iterations so unique, immersive and “personal”. I don’t think that the game needs to go back and become as stupidly difficult as The Sims 1 (but then again what did they have other than the ideas and resources of that era?)

    I wouldn’t be as critical if they just made The Sims 4 into a spin off with a different name to prepare for an *actual* sequel. The Sims 3 was abandoned with countless bugs that were easily fixed by the modding community when all the cool expansions were settled in.

    It’s highly unbelievable that a AAA development company is incapable of fixing those things when UNPAID modders can figure it out.
    OriginID: hestiah23 | Showcase
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,459 Member
    Hestia wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    It’s like they witnessed something happening (and it does for some, no denying that), a side affect, and decided to turn it into a selling point. They shouldn’t in my view, it’s way too delicate and fragile and personal (!) for that. Plus, the game has always had this affect, also the versions where this wasn’t a focus for them yet. Sims is playing with life, leaving everything that happens to the player. Thát’s what causes the effect for many players they’re trying to exploit now. Funny detail: sims having a personality and reactions and a game that links consequences to actions to me seems essential for that.

    (“We thought we had done the homework, but what we heard from our community was that no, that doesn't cut it”, that’s just pathetic, sorry, and exactly what I mean; STOP doing that kind of ‘homework’, you’re just killing your goose that lays the golden eggs guys, stop trying so hard)

    ETA: a more personal note: they’re pretending to go for diversity, but in what way am I, a 50+ lady, represented in this game? I’m not. If I’d make my simself (I don’t, for me Sims isn’t about that, but for the sake of argument) I simply can’t. I can’t even pick my newspaper from the doorstep anymore :weary: And I’m constantly taking selfies, like everyone hahaaHHaHAha *sigh*

    @JoAnne65 I am in my late twenties and even I agree with you.

    The simplification of The Sims 4 is what took away a lot of what made past iterations so unique, immersive and “personal”. I don’t think that the game needs to go back and become as stupidly difficult as The Sims 1 (but then again what did they have other than the ideas and resources of that era?)

    I wouldn’t be as critical if they just made The Sims 4 into a spin off with a different name to prepare for an *actual* sequel. The Sims 3 was abandoned with countless bugs that were easily fixed by the modding community when all the cool expansions were settled in.

    It’s highly unbelievable that a AAA development company is incapable of fixing those things when UNPAID modders can figure it out.
    That’s probably because most of us love to have all life stages represented, not just our own. As a player I prefer playing from the perspective of young adults (the Sims 3/4 version, in Sims 2 that would be adults because YA’s are in college I believe?), people in their twenties and thirties. But I want those (Y)A’s to have kids that are fun to play with, and (grand)parents that represent their life stage properly, realistically. Sims isn’t necessarily about playing yourself (for me actually it’s not, I don’t have to, I’m myself all day long).
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    edited August 24
    I agree with a lot here especially regarding Sims needing more personality. But to say the devs are pandering to SJW and having diversity really makes some of you sound like you think The Sims is for you only. Talking about they rather spend time on being diverse than having meaningful gameplay. Hello white cis-gendered ppl have need overrepresented since Europeans started colonizing the entire world. Y'all feeling left out of those casting calls? How about the majority of every single hair, makeup swatch, skin tone, etc has catered to white players/white Sims for the most part. You talk about a life simulator? Non white ppl are a huge part of this community. I constantly see ppl in The community since CL complain there are no "English" names there's even mods to add these kind of names which I have too thanks to slavery. But maybe some of you feeling left out and complaining about a very important thing the devs are doing can finally understand maybe a little what other Simmers of color and other groups have felt about a lack of inclusion. Yes we can talk about the Sims needing personalities all day here, but the game is not suffering because the devs are trying to be more inclusive. Yes its a life simulator that means everyone should have equal representation in this game.
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    edited August 24
    lasummerb wrote: »
    I agree with a lot here especially regarding Sims needing more personality. But to say the devs are pandering to SJW and having diversity really makes some of you sound like you think The Sims is for you only. Talking about they rather spend time on being diverse than having meaningful gameplay. Hello white cis-gendered ppl have need overrepresented since Europeans started colonizing the entire world. Y'all feeling left out of those casting calls? How about the majority of every single hair, makeup swatch, skin tone, etc has catered to white players/white Sims for the most part. You talk about a life simulator? Non white ppl are a huge part of this community. I constantly see ppl in The community since CL complain there are no "English" names there's even mods to add these kind of names which I have too thanks to slavery. But maybe some of you feeling left out and complaining about a very important thing the devs are doing can finally understand maybe a little what other Simmers of color and other groups have felt about a lack of inclusion. Yes we can talk about the Sims needing personalities all day here, but the game is not suffering because the devs are trying to be more inclusive. Yes its a life simulator that means everyone should have equal representation in this game.

    But everone doesn't have equal representation in this game-- not the "white cis-gendered" people or anyone else. EA has gotten so wrapped up in widow dressing that they abandoned game mechanics. Sure, they had tons of conversations with GLAAD, but when did they have conversations with players? That's not equal representation. When every townie the game generates is named Pajeet, that's not equal representation. When there's a total of maybe three hairstyles appropriate for African sims, that's not equal representation. When toddlers are so well developed and no other life state is, that's not equal representation. The problem is that EA has taken their definitions of diversity to an extreme while ignoring critical aspects of the sims experience. It is empty. No one cares what sims look like or if two men or two women can have a baby if they just start doing push-ups five seconds later. Diversity means nothing when it's just a cover up for poor workmanship.

    @LordOfTendons

    Don't be obtuse, white Simmers have vastly been represented more than any other group. And you all act like the same ppl working on the games are the ones marketing and doing casting calls. And when every single townie had an English name, ppl of non English origin didn't have representation either. And as a Black Simmer, don't you think I realize there wasn't enough hairs that represented my own? Why do you think Simmers like myself, Mira the creator of The Black Simmer forum and others demanded more representation? All of this is needed in a life simulator. As far as them having conversations with Simmers? They have had conversations with Simmers like Mira, who even visited EA to talk about this very thing. How is diversity extreme? You mean you want it back to the way that is most comfortable. EA trying to be inclusive is not taking away the development of this game. Because before the gender update ppl were still complaining about what this game lacks. The can both work on giving us a meaningful game as far as the ones who are programming and developing and the ppl in charge of reaching out to the community can do it at the same time. A lot of Simmers complained called Black Simmers and others like transgender and gay Simmers special snowflakes when they were asking for representation. Now because CL introduced Asian names on every townie and the casting calls call for ppl from all walks of life, you are concerned about equal representation? Diversity is not a cover nor is the reason why this game is lacking.


  • LordOfTendonsLordOfTendons Posts: 210 Member
    lasummerb wrote: »
    lasummerb wrote: »
    I agree with a lot here especially regarding Sims needing more personality. But to say the devs are pandering to SJW and having diversity really makes some of you sound like you think The Sims is for you only. Talking about they rather spend time on being diverse than having meaningful gameplay. Hello white cis-gendered ppl have need overrepresented since Europeans started colonizing the entire world. Y'all feeling left out of those casting calls? How about the majority of every single hair, makeup swatch, skin tone, etc has catered to white players/white Sims for the most part. You talk about a life simulator? Non white ppl are a huge part of this community. I constantly see ppl in The community since CL complain there are no "English" names there's even mods to add these kind of names which I have too thanks to slavery. But maybe some of you feeling left out and complaining about a very important thing the devs are doing can finally understand maybe a little what other Simmers of color and other groups have felt about a lack of inclusion. Yes we can talk about the Sims needing personalities all day here, but the game is not suffering because the devs are trying to be more inclusive. Yes its a life simulator that means everyone should have equal representation in this game.

    But everone doesn't have equal representation in this game-- not the "white cis-gendered" people or anyone else. EA has gotten so wrapped up in widow dressing that they abandoned game mechanics. Sure, they had tons of conversations with GLAAD, but when did they have conversations with players? That's not equal representation. When every townie the game generates is named Pajeet, that's not equal representation. When there's a total of maybe three hairstyles appropriate for African sims, that's not equal representation. When toddlers are so well developed and no other life state is, that's not equal representation. The problem is that EA has taken their definitions of diversity to an extreme while ignoring critical aspects of the sims experience. It is empty. No one cares what sims look like or if two men or two women can have a baby if they just start doing push-ups five seconds later. Diversity means nothing when it's just a cover up for poor workmanship.

    @LordOfTendons

    Don't be obtuse, white Simmers have vastly been represented more than any other group. And you all act like the same ppl working on the games are the ones marketing and doing casting calls. And when every single townie had an English name, ppl of non English origin didn't have representation either. And as a Black Simmer, don't you think I realize there wasn't enough hairs that represented my own? Why do you think Simmers like myself, Mira the creator of The Black Simmer forum and others demanded more representation? All of this is needed in a life simulator. As far as them having conversations with Simmers? They have had conversations with Simmers like Mira, who even visited EA to talk about this very thing. How is diversity extreme? You mean you want it back to the way that is most comfortable. EA trying to be inclusive is not taking away the development of this game. Because before the gender update ppl were still complaining about what this game lacks. The can both work on giving us a meaningful game as far as the ones who are programming and developing and the ppl in charge of reaching out to the community can do it at the same time. A lot of Simmers complained called Black Simmers and others like transgender and gay Simmers special snowflakes when they were asking for representation. Now because CL introduced Asian names on every townie and the casting calls call for ppl from all walks of life, you are concerned about equal representation? Diversity is not a cover nor is the reason why this game is lacking.


    Diversity is the diversion. It's how they keep us fighting with each other instead of demanding that they fix the broken product they sold us.
    I am but a simple demigod
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    But before this gets off track more than it has, this will be all I will have to say on this subject. This thread is about Sims personalities and what the game lacks.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,459 Member
    edited August 25
    Why on earth are we suddenly ending up in a black and white and privilege discussion here? Accusing people of opinions they don’t have and never expressed, just because they want EA to focus on gameplay instead of diversity. That doesn’t mean they want to go back to a certain situation, but enough is enough. Of course the game should represent all colours and orientations, but isn’t that the case already? And what on earth did those flags bring us? Everything within proportion, that’s all people are asking for. You don’t even know what colour or race or sexual preference simmers here have, you’re just jumping to the conclusion we must all be white and cis.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    edited August 25
    @JoAnne65 I don’t know about you, but all races, genders, cultures and ethnicities have been beautifully represented throughout The Sims series. At the end of the day, everything looks gorgeous but behind that curtain is just shallow gameplay.

    All the traits are based on emotions rather than personality. This is why none of the Sims appear unique at all. They’re all exactly identical no matter what trait is chosen for them.

    They don’t refuse to do something, sigh or get upset when they are forced to do something, they get along well with Sims of opposite traits, specific traits don’t have autonomous desires to do things unique to their personality... I really could list way too many.

    @lasummerb I am an islander with a natural tanned skin with volume curly hair. I have my complaints about this game. A lot. :)

    It’s all about how it is represented. If one pushed an agenda too far, they do end up forgetting the core features of what defines The Sims series.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,459 Member
    @Hestia Exactly. One reservation: actually I think races weren’t represented well in Sims 3, I need CC to create proper oriental sims for instance (while their first EP had China as a theme, which is just weird). I think the complaint from the community about that was a valid one and a needed one (as was the complaint about certain hairstyles being under-represented). But they totally made up for that flaw when they created Sims 4 and that is also not what people in this topic are objecting against.
  • LogisitcsLogisitcs Posts: 1,126 Member
    I don’t know how anyone can be happy with EA’s “diversity”. Skin tones in game for Caribbean and African descent are atrocious and insulting. Nobody has that chalky dark skin tone in real life yet they’ve done nothing to fix that. How is that being diverse? They can’t even get the hairs right.

    There’s also not even a hint of Native Indian in the game. We’re they forgotten?

    Point is, they can’t do it properly and it becomes a slippery slope. They should have just focused on building deep gameplay with proper meaningful sims and let the COMMUNITY fill in the diversity gap with cc. But no.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    edited August 25
    @Logisitcs I’m sorry if I seem too critical on this but that “dark red” sort of skin tone is insulting LMAO 😂

    I couldn’t agree more about the strange “chalkiness”. If they could at least let us use a color wheel or color slider for skin tones, that would honestly suffice...
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  • EA_MaiEA_Mai Posts: 920 EA Community Manager
    Hey everyone,

    I'm going to lock this thread here. Things have gone way off-topic pages ago. If you want to continue the discussion/feedback sharing of any of the topics in here, please, open a specific topic for them. Let's also remember to keep things on-topic, and respect and be nice to each other.

    Thanks!
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