Ok. I'll be honest. I've played The Sims since I was a toddler. Sims kept getting better and better and when Sims 3 was released my mind was blown! It was the best Sims game EVER! (and yes, most of the glory goes to horses and open world). I loved the Sims and I loved how the game grew. It became better and better.
And then one glorious day they announced Sims 4. I was surprised and I remember telling my cousin, "Well, I don't know how they're going to top Sims 3. I think Sims 4 is going to be a flop." My cousin looked at me and she said, "We also didn't think they'll be able to top Sims 2, but here we are". At that moment I decided to give Sims 4 a chance and on release date, I got my copy of the game. Huge disappointment. I played it for like a week and then decided it was trash. I uninstalled the game and kept playing the Sims 3.
Well... With the release for Sims 4 for PS4, I got a copy of the game for my PS4 again and somehow the improvement in just the base game itself was remarkable. I then started playing Sims 4 on PC again an bought all of the EP, GP and some SP to spice the game up a bit. And honestly now I just can't get enough. The Sims 4 has done it again! They made a better game than Sims 3. So yes, give them all the time in the world that they need to finish the Sims 4. I'll wait, because it's worth it.
Here is my opinion: The Sims 4 has so many small (and even hidden) details. These details might not be noticed by all, but they still take time to perfect and put in the game. They are what makes this game more realistic and the closest to a life simulation than the Sims team has ever been before. These little details are just perfect to me. I mean sure, Sims 3 went all out and had amazing features that would make Sims 4 an even better game if brought into the Sims 4, but they didn't and it's ok. The Sims 4 is it's own game. It's a new game. It's a detailed and fantastic game. It's a life simulation like no other. It's The Sims 4 and not The Sims 3, The Sims 2 or The Sims. It's perfect and every EP and GP that get's added just makes this game better and better
I respect you love the game but think of what I just posted, then tell me later, after about $1,000 or more if you thought it was worth the price tag, when the seven years have ended and you have seen the same emotions, traits, aspirations, and using the Sim pc over and over for everything if you would have paid that or would have gladly given $40 for a more entertaining, fuller, more indepth base.
With respect. Why should anyone answer you? It's becoming like bringing homework to the teacher.
It's our money and if it does last out the seven years that money has been well spent if you enjoy the game as it is.
Because the thread is about after four years, should it continue since it is still lacking most of everything (AI, objects, gameplay, Animations, Interactions, packs) the others had by this time, and they didn't cost an arm and a leg. ETA: Point to get most of that you or some would have paid out triple and seven years of your life, just askin' if that seems reasonable to you.
I've already answered the reasonable question .. yes for me it is. Everything is smoother animated and more involved than my Sims 2 gameplay ever was. I can tell more stories and delve deeper into playing different characters types as these packs come out. I can have them do things that for story purposes are way more involved. I like the current system that takes an idea and fleshes it out. I have many for instances but yoga is a good stereotypical for instance for me. I can make a more new-agey type that is into yoga and wellness, eats vegan, grows and splices their indoor garden, keeps bees for honey, collects crystals, burns incense, meditates, maybe practices massage and dresses the part (in different ways even) all while looking wonderful doing it with great, smooth animations to watch and back up my story. If I go in game I bet I can list a few other things that help that stereotype along actually or take it down diverging paths. In Sims 2 I could have them practice goofy yoga anywhere in a sweatsuit if there was more to it I never ran across it or couldn't find enough to make that character work or even contemplate having that type in my game. Other iterations at least the ones I played didn't have this by that time.. they never had this at this level. Do I have to play for it .. umm yes. You gotta pay for most stuff you want in this world. Do I want more fleshing out for different characters like I have for that new agey character... oh yes. I already have many other types in my game actually that way surpassed what I had in the last games I played and I want more for them even, because all those little details make the story bigger.
As for what @Simburian said... I do agree actually. There is no need to justify and many smarter simmers than me that enjoy Sims 4 just stay away from feedback threads like this at this point. It's been happening for awhile now... I'm learning, albeit slowly. This isn't an overview of what simmers in general want or even those on this form want. It's a thread about being disgruntled with what is happening in this game and series and that's okay. But don't expect that people will flock to the thread to tell you why this series should last longer. They are giving their attention to the game or other things that matter to them.
That probably is the difference between the way you and I play.
I get zero fulfillment out of watching a Sim do yoga and burn incense. That, to me, is not fun at all. I do like telling stories in my game, but even that's a challenge with the random, wacky emotion system of TS4, Sims that I can't truly personalize the way I'd like, and the necessity for me to use an overwhelming amount of my own imagination because the game is frequently doing its own thing.
I think that really highlights the issue with TS4, though. It's too focused on material things -- buying a $20 pack solely to watch your Sims go do yoga and head to a spa that offers no significant gameplay depth other than just sitting there and watching them get moodlets from animations. Spending $20 to watch them take a whole day to eat food at a fancy restaurant. Spending $10 to watch them bowl.
Dine Out has much more than just eating at a restaurant, it offers the type of in depth customization you'd expect from The Sims building or running it. I loathed how restaurants were rabbit holes before, that was just disgusting even the bistro store set. Same with spas, rabbit holes. That is 0 gameplay. I welcome such additions and hopefully I never have to see rabbit holes for such things ever again in future iterations.
But yeah, comes down to play style. I don't create stories, I don't use my imagination, I play for content and things to do and skills to obtain. I play it more like a sandbox simulation, and to me I try to make or mod the sims to be more dynamic and smarter and let the game do its thing while I control my own household. Same way I used the SP mod in TS3 to let the game do its own thing and stories. I also enjoy themes and having a sim centered around being outdorsy or a complete wellness freak that likes to bathe in rose petals and meditate on top of a zen garden then paint while breathing some incense is wildly pleasurable for me as well.
This is backtracking a few posts to @Goldmoldar 's recent post (which I agree with) but there was an influx of responses, so I'm late.
I don't think that Sims 4, any Sims game, now or in the future, should be designed to run on some of the lower end computers that some people use. Because mid-range computers as a whole are much more capable than mid-range computers were a decade ago. I don't know much about computers, but I think that that much is true. And if we assume that Sims 4 players operate on a normal bell curve like most things in life, most people probably have these types of computers or higher.
Now, if this is flat out wrong and most players (not only us on the forum) actually use lower end computers, then I stand corrected and you can forget I mentioned anything. But if my suspicion is correct, I see no reason to limit the game for people. If their computers can't handle it, they know that. They'll limit expansions and lower graphics, but they'll still play the game. I've been that person with the lower end computer, and it didn't stop me from playing or make me love the game any less. At most, it caused occasional annoyance with my computer. I wouldn't want the game to become a shell (del sol valley lots are the timeless example) simply because I couldn't play on the highest settings or have all the packs. I'd want it to be awesome regardless (in this context, my definition of awesome is a game that is not pre-limited in what it can do for people. Pre-limited: Instead of us picking and choosing great things we can manage to run, we get everything which is mediocre. Again, opinion, moving on...)
Again I could be off base, but that's just my opinion. Please feel free to educate me and disagree with me. I'm not looking for a fight.
No, you are right in thinking that for technology has moved fast forward than what was available back then and some people as well as some devs are afraid to move with what is available. All you have to do is look at what devs are requesting some are asking for i5 and i7 and not being held back if someone is using an older processor if you do not have it than it is the customer's problem and not thiers and they are doing very well. Looking at Sims 4 you just have program that runs well but nothing to test it prowess. wow no one you should built an system just to play Sims4 because sooner or later one may want to play other games and they agin have to bump up thier systems. Another as far as mid range systems goes there are some mid range systems that are not expensive.
You do not need to spend thousands to play Sims 4 as there is hardly any features in it that affects the performance and in an way it is not an plus as some would like to see better features as there is an precedence that was set since Sims 2 and 3 and they snatched what features that was worthwhile instead of tweaking it and here today we have Sims 4 which is toned down. Sims 4 is not necessairly an bad game it just loses it punch sooner than other games for me and the only time some may get an pep is the introduction of an new pack and it may be toned down as the other packs therefore for some it becomes an drag sooner than later. It's motto "Challenge Everything" is no more for I can't really challenge it or create as I see fit. But again you are right if that is your opinion for Sims 4 is not for every one and I can't accept anything less than what I experienced in the past especially if all my systems can run anything I throw at it, sorry to be long winded and all posted is my opinion.
Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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@Cinebar The social media phenomena you site is an interesting insight that I had not considered. Interesting viewpoint on the emotional investment we see here.
I think there's more to it than that though, on both sides of the schism of opinions on TS4. I think we see the emotional investment that we do because the differences in game design style between TS3 and TS4 is SO large that players who are fans of the franchise, on both sides of the debate, have a real fear that the franchise will go in a direction they do not support.
For those who are not fans of 4 (such as yourself) it is already happening and has been for several years. This whole thread is testament to that.
For the people who disagree with you, there is assuredly at least some degree of fear that the ideas which you present will take hold and we WON'T see 3 more years of content. Those folks want 3 more years, or more, of new stuff.
What the two sides of the debate have in common is a love of the game franchise and worry that the future of it won't suit their personal preferences. Natural that it will provoke some emotional responses from either side.
I'd like 3 more years of content myself, not really ready for a Sims 5 or even sure I ever will be, but now that TS4 has seasons and toddlers...the game is 'complete' for me, so anything more is just icing. But I also agree with many of your opinions and would hope that when TS4 finally ends, and TS5 comes, they do a much, much better job of making a game that is inclusive to all of our various preferences as a community. The two sides of this debate have more in common than not, it is entirely possible if the developers have the will to do so.
I give you an A+ here. I do worry that the game may take a different direction next time. This is my game now and for me it's become the one that tops the rest because of the detail that it has. It allows me to tell stories closer to how I always wanted to and I want more of it.
I walked away from the Sims during the Sims 3 run and I can only assume that it might happen again and I will be facing a long dry spell eventually. So I'm going to make hay while the sun shines and enjoy myself with this game while I have the chance. I want this time to last for that reason. I might have to rely on this game for years if the next iteration doesn't suit me. It's not that I don't feel for other members in the community that want different things, but I'm not going to throw what I want under the bus or step aside for anyone. I already had to do that. I've become a Sims prepper.
I do have to say though I'm not afraid this thought in this thread will take hold and bring Sims 4 to a grinding halt. I'm certain it won't actually but it is feedback... and that along with other feedback (including positive feedback), telemetry and sales will probably help them decide what direction to go in next time.
@Cinebar The social media phenomena you site is an interesting insight that I had not considered. Interesting viewpoint on the emotional investment we see here.
I think there's more to it than that though, on both sides of the schism of opinions on TS4. I think we see the emotional investment that we do because the differences in game design style between TS3 and TS4 is SO large that players who are fans of the franchise, on both sides of the debate, have a real fear that the franchise will go in a direction they do not support.
For those who are not fans of 4 (such as yourself) it is already happening and has been for several years. This whole thread is testament to that.
For the people who disagree with you, there is assuredly at least some degree of fear that the ideas which you present will take hold and we WON'T see 3 more years of content. Those folks want 3 more years, or more, of new stuff.
What the two sides of the debate have in common is a love of the game franchise and worry that the future of it won't suit their personal preferences. Natural that it will provoke some emotional responses from either side.
I'd like 3 more years of content myself, not really ready for a Sims 5 or even sure I ever will be, but now that TS4 has seasons and toddlers...the game is 'complete' for me, so anything more is just icing. But I also agree with many of your opinions and would hope that when TS4 finally ends, and TS5 comes, they do a much, much better job of making a game that is inclusive to all of our various preferences as a community. The two sides of this debate have more in common than not, it is entirely possible if the developers have the will to do so.
I give you an A+ here. I do worry that the game may take a different direction next time. This is my game now and for me it's become the one that tops the rest because of the detail that it has. It allows me to tell stories closer to how I always wanted to and I want more of it.
I walked away from the Sims during the Sims 3 run and I can only assume that it might happen again and I will be facing a long dry spell eventually. So I'm going to make hay while the sun shines and enjoy myself with this game while I have the chance. I want this time to last for that reason. I might have to rely on this game for years if the next iteration doesn't suit me. It's not that I don't feel for other members in the community that want different things, but I'm not going to throw what I want under the bus or step aside for anyone. I already had to do that. I've become a Sims prepper.
I do have to say though I'm not afraid this thought in this thread will take hold and bring Sims 4 to a grinding halt. I'm certain it won't actually but it is feedback... and that along with other feedback (including positive feedback), telemetry and sales will probably help them decide what direction to go in next time.
I think that's why many are not so happy with TS4, because they didn't like this direction they took with it, making it more goal focused than ever before. That seems to be it's core and not much but some light fluff ever gets released to make it similar to the other games. I don't think many can argue that isn't it's core when Graham did say they is it's purpose to be more goal focused than the others.
But anyway, I don't think I was ever able to actually adjust to motives no longer mattered. I didn't see much purpose in gaining friends or speaking to friends or family when social is always full. Or to hang out with Sim friends or family when fun was always full. It sort of defeated the reason to leave the house in my opinion. Hunger was never going to be a problem, so it didn't matter much if you fixed a meal or not. See, I played the Sims the way it was intended to motivate them because of their motives. However, the emotions were so redundant in my opinion there wasn't even a reason to build a confident Sim when I could just use object decor or interaction to gain that buff.. so no need to give a Sim that trait. Redundancy.
I steered away from the cheerful trait after seeing they would never stop smiling that huge, frozen grin, like the Joker in Batman, I had to stop using that trait as it was very annoying no matter what was happening they had that frozen smile plastered on their face. I never play on ultra speed so maybe I see more annoying things than others. Not even when skilling would I play any of these games on ultra speed. So, I might notice something more than others would.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@Cinebar The social media phenomena you site is an interesting insight that I had not considered. Interesting viewpoint on the emotional investment we see here.
I think there's more to it than that though, on both sides of the schism of opinions on TS4. I think we see the emotional investment that we do because the differences in game design style between TS3 and TS4 is SO large that players who are fans of the franchise, on both sides of the debate, have a real fear that the franchise will go in a direction they do not support.
For those who are not fans of 4 (such as yourself) it is already happening and has been for several years. This whole thread is testament to that.
For the people who disagree with you, there is assuredly at least some degree of fear that the ideas which you present will take hold and we WON'T see 3 more years of content. Those folks want 3 more years, or more, of new stuff.
What the two sides of the debate have in common is a love of the game franchise and worry that the future of it won't suit their personal preferences. Natural that it will provoke some emotional responses from either side.
I'd like 3 more years of content myself, not really ready for a Sims 5 or even sure I ever will be, but now that TS4 has seasons and toddlers...the game is 'complete' for me, so anything more is just icing. But I also agree with many of your opinions and would hope that when TS4 finally ends, and TS5 comes, they do a much, much better job of making a game that is inclusive to all of our various preferences as a community. The two sides of this debate have more in common than not, it is entirely possible if the developers have the will to do so.
I give you an A+ here. I do worry that the game may take a different direction next time. This is my game now and for me it's become the one that tops the rest because of the detail that it has. It allows me to tell stories closer to how I always wanted to and I want more of it.
I walked away from the Sims during the Sims 3 run and I can only assume that it might happen again and I will be facing a long dry spell eventually. So I'm going to make hay while the sun shines and enjoy myself with this game while I have the chance. I want this time to last for that reason. I might have to rely on this game for years if the next iteration doesn't suit me. It's not that I don't feel for other members in the community that want different things, but I'm not going to throw what I want under the bus or step aside for anyone. I already had to do that. I've become a Sims prepper.
I do have to say though I'm not afraid this thought in this thread will take hold and bring Sims 4 to a grinding halt. I'm certain it won't actually but it is feedback... and that along with other feedback (including positive feedback), telemetry and sales will probably help them decide what direction to go in next time.
I just wanted to join in because this quote right here is extremely important, and as someone who sits right on top of the fence, jumping into each yard now and then to add both constructive criticism and high praise as I feel it's warranted, I want to address it.
I saw some people questioning why others feel the need to defend the game. I also saw the response about the emotional investment in Simmers with developers that are seen as "friends", and I have to say that's a very interesting observation and one to think about, because I'm sure it's part of the EA marketing strategy. I don't think it's necessarily a bad strategy in a community that demands communication, and it has done a lot to fill in some of the quiet blocks that we get, as well as give some deeper insights here and there as to the workings of development and what's possible.
But going back to why people defend the game, and @Hermitgirl 's quote, I've noticed that sometimes people seem to think that criticism is the only way to give constructive feedback, and this misconception can actually be damaging to future games. It's actually equally important to let development know when we feel that something is done right, so that the beloved feature can continue through to the next series and not be scrapped for something else. I'll give what I think is a really good example... open world.
I'll start off by saying that I'm not a fan of Sims 3's open world because, when the game released, it came at the cost of rotational gameplay, which was an immediate deal breaker for me. Also, rabbit hole buildings made me feel shortchanged and I hated them . But so many players loved it, and the game was a success despite my personal grievances. Now, as the game went on, many players who loved the open world started having a lot of issues because of it, and the company started getting tons of negative feedback about all of these problems. So when the next game came around, it was ditched altogether for smoother performance, rather than improved on. It simply didn't seem worth the troubles that came with it. But with the release of Sims 4, suddenly many Sims 3 players were outraged that we had returned to loading screens and neighborhood regions and single lot play. Sure, performance was great, but was the cost worth it? Not to some people. But it's possible that the company heard way more negative feedback than positive, so the decision to ditch the feature seemed wise at the time. Maybe things would have been different if there had been an equal mass of praise for the open world concept. Maybe open world just turned out to be way too problematic to work consistently with a game as intricate as The Sims, and maintenance got overly complicated with each DLC. We obviously don't know. But I do know that there was also an outcry for the loss of rotational play in Sims 3, and it was added back into the game later, as well as it could be, although it was clunky and not without its own penalties. But lo and behold, in Sims 4, rotational play is back and very prominent, but now at the cost of story progression, which was also a complaint in the Sims 3 days. And some people miss that, too.
This is exactly why I think Maxis keeps reiterating constructive feedback. If people only know how to tell them what they don't like, how are they going to know what Simmers do like? This can result in them making decisions for the next game that don't make sense to a lot of players, because the only information they had to go on was critical feedback and telemetry. And I have a lot of doubts about the accuracy of telemetry. I may use a feature or a life stage very sparingly, but it could still be something extremely important to me. So I don't really like the reliance of telemetry. But anyway, this is why I try to be equally loud about the features I think are awesome, because I don't want to see them left out of future games, or changed in this game, and I imagine it's the same reason that "happy" Simmers defend the game when they see people slinging mud at it. They want the things they enjoy to carry forward.
Essentially, we all want what we want, and we all wish to be heard so that the future of this game, or new iterations of the game, will still appeal to us. It's unfortunate that the difference of preferences have a tendency to cause a lot of discord between players. But that's going to happen when you have a game that's come this far (almost 20 years!) and has gone through a variety of metamorphoses. Players are going to want different things. It's a tough balance, and now with Sims 4 added to the mix, it's going to be even more complicated when considering Sims 5 because there are new features to debate for future development, and a whole new fan base to please (or disappoint).
@Cinebar The social media phenomena you site is an interesting insight that I had not considered. Interesting viewpoint on the emotional investment we see here.
I think there's more to it than that though, on both sides of the schism of opinions on TS4. I think we see the emotional investment that we do because the differences in game design style between TS3 and TS4 is SO large that players who are fans of the franchise, on both sides of the debate, have a real fear that the franchise will go in a direction they do not support.
For those who are not fans of 4 (such as yourself) it is already happening and has been for several years. This whole thread is testament to that.
For the people who disagree with you, there is assuredly at least some degree of fear that the ideas which you present will take hold and we WON'T see 3 more years of content. Those folks want 3 more years, or more, of new stuff.
What the two sides of the debate have in common is a love of the game franchise and worry that the future of it won't suit their personal preferences. Natural that it will provoke some emotional responses from either side.
I'd like 3 more years of content myself, not really ready for a Sims 5 or even sure I ever will be, but now that TS4 has seasons and toddlers...the game is 'complete' for me, so anything more is just icing. But I also agree with many of your opinions and would hope that when TS4 finally ends, and TS5 comes, they do a much, much better job of making a game that is inclusive to all of our various preferences as a community. The two sides of this debate have more in common than not, it is entirely possible if the developers have the will to do so.
I give you an A+ here. I do worry that the game may take a different direction next time. This is my game now and for me it's become the one that tops the rest because of the detail that it has. It allows me to tell stories closer to how I always wanted to and I want more of it.
I walked away from the Sims during the Sims 3 run and I can only assume that it might happen again and I will be facing a long dry spell eventually. So I'm going to make hay while the sun shines and enjoy myself with this game while I have the chance. I want this time to last for that reason. I might have to rely on this game for years if the next iteration doesn't suit me. It's not that I don't feel for other members in the community that want different things, but I'm not going to throw what I want under the bus or step aside for anyone. I already had to do that. I've become a Sims prepper.
I do have to say though I'm not afraid this thought in this thread will take hold and bring Sims 4 to a grinding halt. I'm certain it won't actually but it is feedback... and that along with other feedback (including positive feedback), telemetry and sales will probably help them decide what direction to go in next time.
I just wanted to join in because this quote right here is extremely important, and as someone who sits right on top of the fence, jumping into each yard now and then to add both constructive criticism and high praise as I feel it's warranted, I want to address it.
I saw some people questioning why others feel the need to defend the game. I also saw the response about the emotional investment in Simmers with developers that are seen as "friends", and I have to say that's a very interesting observation and one to think about, because I'm sure it's part of the EA marketing strategy. I don't think it's necessarily a bad strategy in a community that demands communication, and it has done a lot to fill in some of the quiet blocks that we get, as well as give some deeper insights here and there as to the workings of development and what's possible.
But going back to why people defend the game, and @Hermitgirl 's quote, I've noticed that sometimes people seem to think that criticism is the only way to give constructive feedback, and this misconception can actually be damaging to future games. It's actually equally important to let development know when we feel that something is done right, so that the beloved feature can continue through to the next series and not be scrapped for something else. I'll give what I think is a really good example... open world.
I'll start off by saying that I'm not a fan of Sims 3's open world because, when the game released, it came at the cost of rotational gameplay, which was an immediate deal breaker for me. Also, rabbit hole buildings made me feel shortchanged and I hated them . But so many players loved it, and the game was a success despite my personal grievances. Now, as the game went on, many players who loved the open world started having a lot of issues because of it, and the company started getting tons of negative feedback about all of these problems. So when the next game came around, it was ditched altogether for smoother performance, rather than improved on. It simply didn't seem worth the troubles that came with it. But with the release of Sims 4, suddenly many Sims 3 players were outraged that we had returned to loading screens and neighborhood regions and single lot play. Sure, performance was great, but was the cost worth it? Not to some people. But it's possible that the company heard way more negative feedback than positive, so the decision to ditch the feature seemed wise at the time. Maybe things would have been different if there had been an equal mass of praise for the open world concept. Maybe open world just turned out to be way too problematic to work consistently with a game as intricate as The Sims, and maintenance got overly complicated with each DLC. We obviously don't know. But I do know that there was also an outcry for the loss of rotational play in Sims 3, and it was added back into the game later, as well as it could be, although it was clunky and not without its own penalties. But lo and behold, in Sims 4, rotational play is back and very prominent, but now at the cost of story progression, which was also a complaint in the Sims 3 days. And some people miss that, too.
This is exactly why I think Maxis keeps reiterating constructive feedback. If people only know how to tell them what they don't like, how are they going to know what Simmers do like? This can result in them making decisions for the next game that don't make sense to a lot of players, because the only information they had to go on was critical feedback and telemetry. And I have a lot of doubts about the accuracy of telemetry. I may use a feature or a life stage very sparingly, but it could still be something extremely important to me. So I don't really like the reliance of telemetry. But anyway, this is why I try to be equally loud about the features I think are awesome, because I don't want to see them left out of future games, or changed in this game, and I imagine it's the same reason that "happy" Simmers defend the game when they see people slinging mud at it. They want the things they enjoy to carry forward.
Essentially, we all want what we want, and we all wish to be heard so that the future of this game, or new iterations of the game, will still appeal to us. It's unfortunate that the difference of preferences have a tendency to cause a lot of discord between players. But that's going to happen when you have a game that's come this far (almost 20 years!) and has gone through a variety of metamorphoses. Players are going to want different things. It's a tough balance, and now with Sims 4 added to the mix, it's going to be even more complicated when considering Sims 5 because there are new features to debate for future development, and a whole new fan base to please (or disappoint).
When you have an precedence that is an hard obstacle to get over, some adapt and some don't. Just like those same folks that are unhappy and slinging mud at something that they feel is not what they expected, they as well expected some features that they felt were worthwhile to be carried forward and it wasn't and I am loud when I see the features that Sims 2 and Sims 3 had were awesome as the features you are saying Sims 4 are. As far as Sims 5 yes, you can bet your last dollar that they are going to have to think real long and hard about do they follow the same path as Sims 4 or do they chuck that path and put in some meaty features and move forward with what technology is available at that time. Yes, they can get away with it with Sims 4 but as far any other games like Battlefield series no they won't for they know they can't come half stepping. Oh yes, you are right there is another way of giving constructive criticism and that is by not putting money in something that one feel is not worth it. You see for every criticism, there is another that can be given and it goes on and on, for every positive there is an negative and so on and so on. Sims 4 just like Sims 3 is not immune to it and SIms 4 has it's own reasons for be an program that has it's own controversy. Sims 4 would not be critized as it is if there was no Sims 2 or Sims 3 because there would be no back story or no comparsions and Sims 4 may have been the game of choice then.
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But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
@simgirl1010 I agree with everything you said in your last post. I don't let motives dictate what I have my sim doing either. Matter of fact, I use the game's cheats to keep my sim's needs full so that I can use what precious time there is in a sim day to be able to have the time to have my sim doing whatever it is that I want my sim to be doing. Which for me, is usually going out on a date or going to a hot spot to socialize. I found out a long time ago that by the time my sim sleeps, eats, showers, and uses the bathroom when I don't use cheats, there's very little time left in the sim day to actually do anything "fun". For me, I just don't enjoy playing the game as much when I don't use cheats.
I really like TS4's aspiration system. I like that I can change aspirations at anytime so I can fulfill aspirations to reward my sim while still doing what my sim would normally be doing. I hope TS5 keeps that system in some way.
In the past, I really liked having my sim form a band and making money while playing in the park until they got skilled enough to start playing gigs. I really miss not being able to do that in TS4. Hopefully, they will bring back the ability to form a band in TS5. I had a lot of fun with the singer career as well, but the acrobat, magician careers didn't really appeal to me. I'm sure there were lots of other simmers who liked those careers though.
I hope TS5 also brings back the doorbell. It's just one more example of how TS4 overlooked what I consider to be a really simple thing to have in the game due to rushing the product out the door to make money. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine any simmer not wanting a doorbell to let them know when somebody is at their door while they are not on the main floor of their house.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
I love the motive thing myself in this game. It doesn't drive the gameplay nearly as hard as in the past. With the addition of bought traits you can make them even more of super sims if you want too.. although I don't do that as much as I did when I first started playing this game. If you want your sim to eat and they are full.. chose low cal or no cal options .. they are there, to me that adds to the gameplay as you have to think out and learn those choices as the player. They are easy to learn and make sense too for the most part. Well not the no calorie food part.. but I'm glad for that option too. If you want your sim to suffer the consequences of overeating like many of us real people do, there are lots of ways to accomplish it in this game and you even can see the results gradually happening. Along with muscle mass gain and loss driven by the choices you make for your sims, or they might make for that matter.
Do they work out at inappropriate times? Yeah they do - if they have the active trait. Do they pull out that phone too often... actually for me they don't I think it's linked to the gaming skill which my sims rarely work on so they rarely use their phones autonomously... well unless I've left them out alone somewhere down the street. When in the house they chose to do other things first .. especially things I've directed them too learn about when I first started "training" them.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
No I don't see what you're saying. I didn't say my sim goes to a restaurant with a full stomach. I said I don't look at her hunger bar and think, "Oh, she's hungry. Maybe now is a good time to send her to a restaurant." I might decide in the morning to send her and husband on a date that evening to a restaurant and I'll keep an eye on their needs throughout the day so they're reasonably hungry when they arrive. If the bar is dropping and its almost dinner time they might have a piece of fruit or other snack. Have never had a sim gain weight due to overeating. And again the purpose of my game is not simply to obsessively focus on a motive and try to fill it. That just seems to be boring and motive directed for me.
Yes, but just as before, we all spent hundreds (maybe) on the other three games per version, and they were ending by this time and much,much fuller at the four year mark. And had much more in their three - four year life spans than TS4 would possibly have after seven years. I was making the point of how much more there is to the other games at four year's end than in TS4.
This is the first sims game I bought and invested in with my own money, before it was my parents who bought sims (sims1 & sims2) for me when each came out with the deluxe game version and that didn't cost them hundreds. Well I probably have spent hundreds on sims4 after buying all these packs, I def will not be leaving that behind anytime soon and starting over. I've always been late to each game anyhow - I started playing 4 two years ago, and I skipped 3 all together. So I'm not ready to leave behind sims 4, I enjoy the game and still have hope for its future. If they launched Sims 5 this year, I won't be making the leap forward for at least a few years, if at all *shrugs*
If they ended TS4 now, I'd lose all trust in this company and not a way in plum buy TS5. Who's to say they wouldn't just do the same and ditch that when it's still incomplete.
TS4 is not complete, and I really wish people would stop calling for TS5 before it is. People have been asking for TS5 almost since release, honestly, so I just think that people are toxic toward TS4 and don't regard the people who actually like it and want their money to pay off.
If they ended TS4 now, I'd lose all trust in this company and not a way in plum buy TS5. Who's to say they wouldn't just do the same and ditch that when it's still incomplete.
TS4 is not complete, and I really wish people would stop calling for TS5 before it is. People have been asking for TS5 almost since release, honestly, so I just think that people are toxic toward TS4 and don't regard the people who actually like it and want their money to pay off.
It all comes down to how one feel if it is incomplete for them and done for them and if it is not incomplete for you then it is not, even though EA/Maxis is the one who decides when Sims 4 or even when the Sims series is done. The reason some are say incomplete or done it may be that Sims 4 is lacking features that they wish to see in the game. I really do not care if Sims 5 comes about or not and even if the Sims series comes to an close this is not the only game in the ocean of games being made. Sims 4 has an lot of controversy surrounding itself and will continue to have until this game cease publication. When an person puts Sims 4 in an negative light it is not toxic being it would be depending on the language used, is the language vulgar, words used that is not allowed under the current TOS? If not then that post that is negative is considered feedback and that is what the post is conveying. Guess hater turned to toxic for I see the word toxic being thrown around. The negative comments will not cease as postive comments will not cease.
Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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I love the motive thing myself in this game. It doesn't drive the gameplay nearly as hard as in the past. With the addition of bought traits you can make them even more of super sims if you want too.. although I don't do that as much as I did when I first started playing this game. If you want your sim to eat and they are full.. chose low cal or no cal options .. they are there, to me that adds to the gameplay as you have to think out and learn those choices as the player. They are easy to learn and make sense too for the most part. Well not the no calorie food part.. but I'm glad for that option too. If you want your sim to suffer the consequences of overeating like many of us real people do, there are lots of ways to accomplish it in this game and you even can see the results gradually happening. Along with muscle mass gain and loss driven by the choices you make for your sims, or they might make for that matter.
Do they work out at inappropriate times? Yeah they do - if they have the active trait. Do they pull out that phone too often... actually for me they don't I think it's linked to the gaming skill which my sims rarely work on so they rarely use their phones autonomously... well unless I've left them out alone somewhere down the street. When in the house they chose to do other things first .. especially things I've directed them too learn about when I first started "training" them.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
To me without fast falling motives this game is less simulation and more just an interactive desktop. I don't want my sims to only eat one meal a day as in a proper diet there should be breakfast, dinner, lunch. I also don't' want them to take 2 hours at breakfast, just because they decided to do something else at breakfast, because they have other responsibilities to attend to.
I love the motive thing myself in this game. It doesn't drive the gameplay nearly as hard as in the past. With the addition of bought traits you can make them even more of super sims if you want too.. although I don't do that as much as I did when I first started playing this game. If you want your sim to eat and they are full.. chose low cal or no cal options .. they are there, to me that adds to the gameplay as you have to think out and learn those choices as the player. They are easy to learn and make sense too for the most part. Well not the no calorie food part.. but I'm glad for that option too. If you want your sim to suffer the consequences of overeating like many of us real people do, there are lots of ways to accomplish it in this game and you even can see the results gradually happening. Along with muscle mass gain and loss driven by the choices you make for your sims, or they might make for that matter.
Do they work out at inappropriate times? Yeah they do - if they have the active trait. Do they pull out that phone too often... actually for me they don't I think it's linked to the gaming skill which my sims rarely work on so they rarely use their phones autonomously... well unless I've left them out alone somewhere down the street. When in the house they chose to do other things first .. especially things I've directed them too learn about when I first started "training" them.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
To me without fast falling motives this game is less simulation and more just an interactive desktop. I don't want my sims to only eat one meal a day as in a proper diet there should be breakfast, dinner, lunch. I also don't' want them to take 2 hours at breakfast, just because they decided to do something else at breakfast, because they have other responsibilities to attend to.
This is sort of what I meant, too. I like to know why I'm feeding my Sim, lol. I had a story going on in TS4, and it mattered to me that I wanted to take one friend to lunch at one type restaurant, and another to dinner at another type restaurant and also to build friendships. That seems normal, right? But these Sims were not that hungry so yes, they gain weight, and I like in the past, I order for my Sim what I wanted them to eat, not what the game would think would be good for them in case the other dish would make them gain weight. So, after awhile if I returned to them on rotation they had gained a lot of weight since they would be at the restuarants or cafes when I went there with another Sim. I have never liked the strict gameplay of having to fill motives ever hour or so, it's true that is annoying, but I also liked food points in older games, knowing if they ate turkey, yes, they were going to get fatter, but just seeing one at the cafe all the time shouldn't put that much weight on them. One at the salad bar restuarant shouldn't put weight on them when you go back to playing them but it does.
It's the core of the Sims to make them successful and happier inspite of all the chaos, motives and troubles that come their way. TS4 to me, was more of a dress up, pose, take a screen shot type game. Or on the flip side grind and grind to fill redundant goals and levels. There is little sandbox inside this game, considering things like family can't even keep rewards if the one who had those rewards dies, nor pass along knowledge, or inheritance, heck we can just delete grandma, and or the heir if we want. It seems pretty shallow still yet, even after it's four year reign. And honestly to me it seems like they have run out of good ideas when they have to say the last world was tiny due to performance, but don't worry some worlds won't be so small..when that was supposed to be a big city with famous residents. None of that made any sense to me, and showed me they are just about out of any good ideas to bring depth and expansion to the game when what they do churn out slowly is less than it was before. Festival use of base game objects proves the ideas aren't flowing. ETA: And after all the tweets, ideas here, feedback here and many other fansites, they still have to take surveys and ask how to improve it. It starts to look like they can't hear or see. ETA: Or they have to take an easier route of what is easier to do..more check lists.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
No I don't see what you're saying. I didn't say my sim goes to a restaurant with a full stomach. I said I don't look at her hunger bar and think, "Oh, she's hungry. Maybe now is a good time to send her to a restaurant." I might decide in the morning to send her and husband on a date that evening to a restaurant and I'll keep an eye on their needs throughout the day so they're reasonably hungry when they arrive. If the bar is dropping and its almost dinner time they might have a piece of fruit or other snack. Have never had a sim gain weight due to overeating. And again the purpose of my game is not simply to obsessively focus on a motive and try to fill it. That just seems to be boring and motive directed for me.
It's a reason to get them out of bed, lol. Or send them to a community lot. If my Sim's fun is full (with nothing in their home to fill it) then what is the point of going out at night? Sure, I can build a story in my head, but I'm conditioned to want to fill the motive (if it's empty) rather than grind on an emotional buff to gain a level. I couldn't care less about some emotional buff, my Sims' traits should be setting their emotional behaviour not the other way around. Bascially, you have swaped the grind of motives to the grind of emotional buffs to gain goals. It's the same difference, and I'm not a player who must fill all aspiratoins, levels and goals. The game to me was always about what happens along the way, but in TS4 not much is happening other than noticing all Sims are the same. One who has a confident trait, will also roll the whim to fix a perfect meal or something like that as one who has a confident emotional buff, and or the creativity trait ETA: And with the one who has a cooking skill....Redundant.
And just off the top of my head, so will the Sim who has the perfectionist trait. So, that there is like four different Sims rolling same whims or doing the same things. And they must not have much confidence these were not redundant if players can just turn off whims now...what, hide the redundancy? It is the least thought out game ever as far as Sim stories are concerned to me. And quite boring to say the least.
ETA: While it's on my mind, the game also forces all Sims to be the same by giving them a charisma skill which some players might not want one Sim to have any at all...but if they tell a joke autonomously bam! they get a point. How about letting players decide what skill they would like their Sims to have?
This is constructive feedback, it points out all the problems with personalites which is what players have been demanding to be changed since day one. There have been dozens and dozens of threads concerning personality. And that is the Sim and it's failure of them to understand or listen. Anyone want more of this? How about these Sims aren't even aware someone else is cooking a meal and they all go in to fix something to eat. Where is the wait for meal like in TS2? Why aren't these Sims smarter than a game from 2004? I will say it again, they can't even face each other and leave out a crowd while they are dancing or on a date....too silly to know how or care how ridiculous this looks to a player let alone how annoying it is when the whole room is dancing with a couple and speaking to a couple.
I have to go today, didn't mean to ramble on, but I don't have much time today. I will just add this too, the code to me seems like total mayhem with very little focus on actual visuals, conceptions, and perceptions. I'm under the impression they have no idea how this game really looks to the player or how it acutally plays out or works.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
The problem for me is the time speed. This franchise has always had this issue for me. Time moves too fast. Well in TS2 you would travel to another lot then be back home at the original time you left so in a way I liked that, it meant going out for lunch did not swallow 5 hours of daytime. In TS3 I used Nraas Relativity to make time half speed. Vanilla speed is just not enough for how long it has always taken sims to do basic things like go to the bathroom (10-15 minutes), shower (30+ minutes), etc.
I don't care much for motives though, they feel restricting at times. I want my sims to do what I want, not do things based on their needs all the time given all the hobbies and side activities that take copious amounts of time or even retail i.e.
Sadly I'm still waiting for someone to do a mod like relativity for TS4, as MCCC is not relative and scales length of actions too.
@Archieonic No one will do a mod like relativity for TS4 because of how the game itself works internally. Check out the explanation in MCCC's documentation (the F.A.Q.) regarding why the slow down function works the way it does in MCCC for the explanation as to why that is. Its pretty clear that he would have preferred to have it work more like Relativity but what he did is the closest thing that is at all possible.
Using MCCC to adjust game time speed does allow for more to be done in a day, btw. Although the game ties interactions to the clock speed, certain things like how long it takes to walk between two points do take less time.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
The Sims is a time management game. At its core it’s about keeping your sims alive while balancing whatever story you are wanting to tell. Sims 4 is very unbalanced in that regard. Needs require little involvement from the player, because they decay so slowly and because sims can pretty much fulfill them all on their own. This makes story telling super easy, which for people looking to do that is great, but for people who are looking for a game and not an interactive story book it’s kind of boring. For me TS4 drags in live mode. With Sims 2 and especially 3 I would play live mode for hours and I would never feel like I have done everything there is to do or get bored of playing the game. With Sims 4 I can play live mode for 30 min to an hour before I finally turn it off. It’s a boring game where nothing really happens unless you go out of your way to make it happen. Some people like that, and some people don’t. I’m on the side of the fence that wants more of a game, not a make your own story book. However, seeing how this game was designed as an online multiplayer hangout game and not a life simulator I’m not surprised it’s strong points appeal to players more interested in the story telling aspects than the actual time management features that make it more of a game.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
The Sims is a time management game. At its core it’s about keeping your sims alive while balancing whatever story you are wanting to tell. Sims 4 is very unbalanced in that regard. Needs require little involvement from the player, because they decay so slowly and because sims can pretty much fulfill them all on their own. This makes story telling super easy, which for people looking to do that is great, but for people who are looking for a game and not an interactive story book it’s kind of boring. For me TS4 drags in live mode. With Sims 2 and especially 3 I would play live mode for hours and I would never feel like I have done everything there is to do or get bored of playing the game. With Sims 4 I can play live mode for 30 min to an hour before I finally turn it off. It’s a boring game where nothing really happens unless you go out of your way to make it happen. Some people like that, and some people don’t. I’m on the side of the fence that wants more of a game, not a make your own story book. However, seeing how this game was designed as an online multiplayer hangout game and not a life simulator I’m not surprised it’s strong points appeal to players more interested in the story telling aspects than the actual time management features that make it more of a game.
The direction of the sims franchise from a life simulation game to an iPad-esque, time management game was unfortunate. The game became less deeply immersive and unique for me and nigh impossible for me to support.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
The Sims is a time management game. At its core it’s about keeping your sims alive while balancing whatever story you are wanting to tell. Sims 4 is very unbalanced in that regard. Needs require little involvement from the player, because they decay so slowly and because sims can pretty much fulfill them all on their own. This makes story telling super easy, which for people looking to do that is great, but for people who are looking for a game and not an interactive story book it’s kind of boring. For me TS4 drags in live mode. With Sims 2 and especially 3 I would play live mode for hours and I would never feel like I have done everything there is to do or get bored of playing the game. With Sims 4 I can play live mode for 30 min to an hour before I finally turn it off. It’s a boring game where nothing really happens unless you go out of your way to make it happen. Some people like that, and some people don’t. I’m on the side of the fence that wants more of a game, not a make your own story book. However, seeing how this game was designed as an online multiplayer hangout game and not a life simulator I’m not surprised it’s strong points appeal to players more interested in the story telling aspects than the actual time management features that make it more of a game.
The direction of the sims franchise from a life simulation game to an iPad-esque, time management game was unfortunate. The game became less deeply immersive and unique for me and nigh impossible for me to support.
I would argue that Sims 4 is less of a time management game than others. In previous games it was all about balancing what you needed to do to keep your sims needs met and giving them a life to live. Sims 4 is more casual, it’s less time management and more just picking something that looks fun and doing it. Great for story tellers, but bad for people looking to play a game.
@Archieonic No one will do a mod like relativity for TS4 because of how the game itself works internally. Check out the explanation in MCCC's documentation (the F.A.Q.) regarding why the slow down function works the way it does in MCCC for the explanation as to why that is. Its pretty clear that he would have preferred to have it work more like Relativity but what he did is the closest thing that is at all possible.
Using MCCC to adjust game time speed does allow for more to be done in a day, btw. Although the game ties interactions to the clock speed, certain things like how long it takes to walk between two points do take less time.
What I understood was not that it was impossible but much more time consuming than just changing the simulation ticks. You would have to individually change each interaction's speed, and given there are hundreds...well, yeah.
Tedious, yes, but it is tempting and I might just dive into it using MCCC as a reference point.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
The Sims is a time management game. At its core it’s about keeping your sims alive while balancing whatever story you are wanting to tell. Sims 4 is very unbalanced in that regard. Needs require little involvement from the player, because they decay so slowly and because sims can pretty much fulfill them all on their own. This makes story telling super easy, which for people looking to do that is great, but for people who are looking for a game and not an interactive story book it’s kind of boring. For me TS4 drags in live mode. With Sims 2 and especially 3 I would play live mode for hours and I would never feel like I have done everything there is to do or get bored of playing the game. With Sims 4 I can play live mode for 30 min to an hour before I finally turn it off. It’s a boring game where nothing really happens unless you go out of your way to make it happen. Some people like that, and some people don’t. I’m on the side of the fence that wants more of a game, not a make your own story book. However, seeing how this game was designed as an online multiplayer hangout game and not a life simulator I’m not surprised it’s strong points appeal to players more interested in the story telling aspects than the actual time management features that make it more of a game.
The direction of the sims franchise from a life simulation game to an iPad-esque, time management game was unfortunate. The game became less deeply immersive and unique for me and nigh impossible for me to support.
I would argue that Sims 4 is less of a time management game than others. In previous games it was all about balancing what you needed to do to keep your sims needs met and giving them a life to live. Sims 4 is more casual, it’s less time management and more just picking something that looks fun and doing it. Great for story tellers, but bad for people looking to play a game.
Perhaps. But the shallow content of ts4 really shows the skeletal leanness of its time management bones more than ts2 or ts3... in my humble opinion. Unlike with ts4, I did not feel that time management was the only reason my sims existed in the ts2 or ts3.
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But yeah, comes down to play style. I don't create stories, I don't use my imagination, I play for content and things to do and skills to obtain. I play it more like a sandbox simulation, and to me I try to make or mod the sims to be more dynamic and smarter and let the game do its thing while I control my own household. Same way I used the SP mod in TS3 to let the game do its own thing and stories. I also enjoy themes and having a sim centered around being outdorsy or a complete wellness freak that likes to bathe in rose petals and meditate on top of a zen garden then paint while breathing some incense is wildly pleasurable for me as well.
No, you are right in thinking that for technology has moved fast forward than what was available back then and some people as well as some devs are afraid to move with what is available. All you have to do is look at what devs are requesting some are asking for i5 and i7 and not being held back if someone is using an older processor if you do not have it than it is the customer's problem and not thiers and they are doing very well. Looking at Sims 4 you just have program that runs well but nothing to test it prowess. wow no one you should built an system just to play Sims4 because sooner or later one may want to play other games and they agin have to bump up thier systems. Another as far as mid range systems goes there are some mid range systems that are not expensive.
You do not need to spend thousands to play Sims 4 as there is hardly any features in it that affects the performance and in an way it is not an plus as some would like to see better features as there is an precedence that was set since Sims 2 and 3 and they snatched what features that was worthwhile instead of tweaking it and here today we have Sims 4 which is toned down. Sims 4 is not necessairly an bad game it just loses it punch sooner than other games for me and the only time some may get an pep is the introduction of an new pack and it may be toned down as the other packs therefore for some it becomes an drag sooner than later. It's motto "Challenge Everything" is no more for I can't really challenge it or create as I see fit. But again you are right if that is your opinion for Sims 4 is not for every one and I can't accept anything less than what I experienced in the past especially if all my systems can run anything I throw at it, sorry to be long winded and all posted is my opinion.
I give you an A+ here. I do worry that the game may take a different direction next time. This is my game now and for me it's become the one that tops the rest because of the detail that it has. It allows me to tell stories closer to how I always wanted to and I want more of it.
I walked away from the Sims during the Sims 3 run and I can only assume that it might happen again and I will be facing a long dry spell eventually. So I'm going to make hay while the sun shines and enjoy myself with this game while I have the chance. I want this time to last for that reason. I might have to rely on this game for years if the next iteration doesn't suit me. It's not that I don't feel for other members in the community that want different things, but I'm not going to throw what I want under the bus or step aside for anyone. I already had to do that. I've become a Sims prepper.
I do have to say though I'm not afraid this thought in this thread will take hold and bring Sims 4 to a grinding halt. I'm certain it won't actually but it is feedback... and that along with other feedback (including positive feedback), telemetry and sales will probably help them decide what direction to go in next time.
I think that's why many are not so happy with TS4, because they didn't like this direction they took with it, making it more goal focused than ever before. That seems to be it's core and not much but some light fluff ever gets released to make it similar to the other games. I don't think many can argue that isn't it's core when Graham did say they is it's purpose to be more goal focused than the others.
But anyway, I don't think I was ever able to actually adjust to motives no longer mattered. I didn't see much purpose in gaining friends or speaking to friends or family when social is always full. Or to hang out with Sim friends or family when fun was always full. It sort of defeated the reason to leave the house in my opinion. Hunger was never going to be a problem, so it didn't matter much if you fixed a meal or not. See, I played the Sims the way it was intended to motivate them because of their motives. However, the emotions were so redundant in my opinion there wasn't even a reason to build a confident Sim when I could just use object decor or interaction to gain that buff.. so no need to give a Sim that trait. Redundancy.
I steered away from the cheerful trait after seeing they would never stop smiling that huge, frozen grin, like the Joker in Batman, I had to stop using that trait as it was very annoying no matter what was happening they had that frozen smile plastered on their face. I never play on ultra speed so maybe I see more annoying things than others. Not even when skilling would I play any of these games on ultra speed. So, I might notice something more than others would.
But back to motives, because they are soooo easy, I would like to have seen them set back to the TS2 ratio, it was pointless to call up a friend to take them to dinner, to build relationship, have fun, and fill hunger when 90% if the time the Sim had ruined my plans by pulling out the phone and filling up the small about of fun they needed, social was topped out no need to talk to anyone, and had pulled imaginary food from their rear end and no longer hungry. I think the direction of the game has already been changed to make some of us who enjoyed the past hiarchy of the original concept to feel this game sort of tore all that apart, and made it about goals to fill, over relationships to build or reasons to leave the house. By removing comfort they also sort of defeated the reason to buy better furniture, since these Sims are happy, happy with a two dollar picture, and a $1 bed. Or no bed at all. Or half built homes with unfinished walls, or perfectly happy sleeping on benches in the game, where as I was hoping I could make one miserable and cry all the time but living on a vacant lot didn't phase them much. And I have yet to have a Sim die in TS4 other than old age. I don't know if that means I'm just too clever of how to care for them or if it's just ABC easy, and any first grader could manage it.
I just wanted to join in because this quote right here is extremely important, and as someone who sits right on top of the fence, jumping into each yard now and then to add both constructive criticism and high praise as I feel it's warranted, I want to address it.
I saw some people questioning why others feel the need to defend the game. I also saw the response about the emotional investment in Simmers with developers that are seen as "friends", and I have to say that's a very interesting observation and one to think about, because I'm sure it's part of the EA marketing strategy. I don't think it's necessarily a bad strategy in a community that demands communication, and it has done a lot to fill in some of the quiet blocks that we get, as well as give some deeper insights here and there as to the workings of development and what's possible.
But going back to why people defend the game, and @Hermitgirl 's quote, I've noticed that sometimes people seem to think that criticism is the only way to give constructive feedback, and this misconception can actually be damaging to future games. It's actually equally important to let development know when we feel that something is done right, so that the beloved feature can continue through to the next series and not be scrapped for something else. I'll give what I think is a really good example... open world.
I'll start off by saying that I'm not a fan of Sims 3's open world because, when the game released, it came at the cost of rotational gameplay, which was an immediate deal breaker for me. Also, rabbit hole buildings made me feel shortchanged and I hated them . But so many players loved it, and the game was a success despite my personal grievances. Now, as the game went on, many players who loved the open world started having a lot of issues because of it, and the company started getting tons of negative feedback about all of these problems. So when the next game came around, it was ditched altogether for smoother performance, rather than improved on. It simply didn't seem worth the troubles that came with it. But with the release of Sims 4, suddenly many Sims 3 players were outraged that we had returned to loading screens and neighborhood regions and single lot play. Sure, performance was great, but was the cost worth it? Not to some people. But it's possible that the company heard way more negative feedback than positive, so the decision to ditch the feature seemed wise at the time. Maybe things would have been different if there had been an equal mass of praise for the open world concept. Maybe open world just turned out to be way too problematic to work consistently with a game as intricate as The Sims, and maintenance got overly complicated with each DLC. We obviously don't know. But I do know that there was also an outcry for the loss of rotational play in Sims 3, and it was added back into the game later, as well as it could be, although it was clunky and not without its own penalties. But lo and behold, in Sims 4, rotational play is back and very prominent, but now at the cost of story progression, which was also a complaint in the Sims 3 days. And some people miss that, too.
This is exactly why I think Maxis keeps reiterating constructive feedback. If people only know how to tell them what they don't like, how are they going to know what Simmers do like? This can result in them making decisions for the next game that don't make sense to a lot of players, because the only information they had to go on was critical feedback and telemetry. And I have a lot of doubts about the accuracy of telemetry. I may use a feature or a life stage very sparingly, but it could still be something extremely important to me. So I don't really like the reliance of telemetry. But anyway, this is why I try to be equally loud about the features I think are awesome, because I don't want to see them left out of future games, or changed in this game, and I imagine it's the same reason that "happy" Simmers defend the game when they see people slinging mud at it. They want the things they enjoy to carry forward.
Essentially, we all want what we want, and we all wish to be heard so that the future of this game, or new iterations of the game, will still appeal to us. It's unfortunate that the difference of preferences have a tendency to cause a lot of discord between players. But that's going to happen when you have a game that's come this far (almost 20 years!) and has gone through a variety of metamorphoses. Players are going to want different things. It's a tough balance, and now with Sims 4 added to the mix, it's going to be even more complicated when considering Sims 5 because there are new features to debate for future development, and a whole new fan base to please (or disappoint).
When you have an precedence that is an hard obstacle to get over, some adapt and some don't. Just like those same folks that are unhappy and slinging mud at something that they feel is not what they expected, they as well expected some features that they felt were worthwhile to be carried forward and it wasn't and I am loud when I see the features that Sims 2 and Sims 3 had were awesome as the features you are saying Sims 4 are. As far as Sims 5 yes, you can bet your last dollar that they are going to have to think real long and hard about do they follow the same path as Sims 4 or do they chuck that path and put in some meaty features and move forward with what technology is available at that time. Yes, they can get away with it with Sims 4 but as far any other games like Battlefield series no they won't for they know they can't come half stepping. Oh yes, you are right there is another way of giving constructive criticism and that is by not putting money in something that one feel is not worth it. You see for every criticism, there is another that can be given and it goes on and on, for every positive there is an negative and so on and so on. Sims 4 just like Sims 3 is not immune to it and SIms 4 has it's own reasons for be an program that has it's own controversy. Sims 4 would not be critized as it is if there was no Sims 2 or Sims 3 because there would be no back story or no comparsions and Sims 4 may have been the game of choice then.
For me fulfilling motives are actually secondary to my gameplay. Just because my sim's fun bar is in the green doesn't mean I'm going to have her sit at home staring at the wall as opposed to visiting a friend. Just because her hunger bar isn't in the red doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to meet a friend for lunch or accept an invitation to meet at a restaurant. Just because her social is in the green doesn't mean I'm not going to send her out to a bar or lounge to have fun. To me that type of gameplay seems more forced and goal oriented. Everything revolves around your sim's motives. My sims do what I want them to do and fulfilling motives is rarely a consideration when I'm selecting activities for my sims. It all just seems to fall into place. As for purchasing furniture there are cheap beds that provide less comfort and energy and sims wake up tense and sore. So just because there's no longer a comfort motive doesn't mean they aren't effected by the quality of the furniture.
I really like TS4's aspiration system. I like that I can change aspirations at anytime so I can fulfill aspirations to reward my sim while still doing what my sim would normally be doing. I hope TS5 keeps that system in some way.
In the past, I really liked having my sim form a band and making money while playing in the park until they got skilled enough to start playing gigs. I really miss not being able to do that in TS4. Hopefully, they will bring back the ability to form a band in TS5. I had a lot of fun with the singer career as well, but the acrobat, magician careers didn't really appeal to me. I'm sure there were lots of other simmers who liked those careers though.
I hope TS5 also brings back the doorbell. It's just one more example of how TS4 overlooked what I consider to be a really simple thing to have in the game due to rushing the product out the door to make money. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine any simmer not wanting a doorbell to let them know when somebody is at their door while they are not on the main floor of their house.
Then it becomes redundancy. Eat when not hungry and the Sim gets fat. Work out and you will have to push them to lose weight. Then there they go doing push ups at a formal event or dinner party or on a date. Do you see what I'm saying? Motives to me made more sense than pushing a Sim to obtain some emotional buff in order to fill a goal to level up and rinse and repeat. I'm not saying they should have lowered motives down to where The Sims were originally, because those were extremely annoying and frustrating sometimes especially since fun, hunger, energy, etc. were not that easily managed in that game when objects or interactions barely moved the needle. However, I think TS2's levels were very managable and more realisitic to me. Some Sim who is rarely hungry, rarely needs to be around anyone, or to talk or to have fun is one boring dress up game. I'm looking at it from the point of the Sim, it's hardly necessary if I want to watch animations to ski or use a water slide etc. (not in this game btw) when they don't even want to have any fun...and if they did, even with free will off, they may whip out that phone and fill it or keep on using it, even when fun is full.
I love the motive thing myself in this game. It doesn't drive the gameplay nearly as hard as in the past. With the addition of bought traits you can make them even more of super sims if you want too.. although I don't do that as much as I did when I first started playing this game. If you want your sim to eat and they are full.. chose low cal or no cal options .. they are there, to me that adds to the gameplay as you have to think out and learn those choices as the player. They are easy to learn and make sense too for the most part. Well not the no calorie food part.. but I'm glad for that option too. If you want your sim to suffer the consequences of overeating like many of us real people do, there are lots of ways to accomplish it in this game and you even can see the results gradually happening. Along with muscle mass gain and loss driven by the choices you make for your sims, or they might make for that matter.
Do they work out at inappropriate times? Yeah they do - if they have the active trait. Do they pull out that phone too often... actually for me they don't I think it's linked to the gaming skill which my sims rarely work on so they rarely use their phones autonomously... well unless I've left them out alone somewhere down the street. When in the house they chose to do other things first .. especially things I've directed them too learn about when I first started "training" them.
I don't want the motives to backtrack in future games. I hope they don't. I don't like strict time management scenarios.. That's a huge grind to me. It's hard to tell stories that way to me or have my sims live how I want them to live, and I hate to cheat the needs. I will but I don't like it to be part of my normal gameplay. What's funny to me is when I see people complaining that the needs/motives are too hard to do now.
No I don't see what you're saying. I didn't say my sim goes to a restaurant with a full stomach. I said I don't look at her hunger bar and think, "Oh, she's hungry. Maybe now is a good time to send her to a restaurant." I might decide in the morning to send her and husband on a date that evening to a restaurant and I'll keep an eye on their needs throughout the day so they're reasonably hungry when they arrive. If the bar is dropping and its almost dinner time they might have a piece of fruit or other snack. Have never had a sim gain weight due to overeating. And again the purpose of my game is not simply to obsessively focus on a motive and try to fill it. That just seems to be boring and motive directed for me.
This is the first sims game I bought and invested in with my own money, before it was my parents who bought sims (sims1 & sims2) for me when each came out with the deluxe game version and that didn't cost them hundreds. Well I probably have spent hundreds on sims4 after buying all these packs, I def will not be leaving that behind anytime soon and starting over. I've always been late to each game anyhow - I started playing 4 two years ago, and I skipped 3 all together. So I'm not ready to leave behind sims 4, I enjoy the game and still have hope for its future. If they launched Sims 5 this year, I won't be making the leap forward for at least a few years, if at all *shrugs*
TS4 is not complete, and I really wish people would stop calling for TS5 before it is. People have been asking for TS5 almost since release, honestly, so I just think that people are toxic toward TS4 and don't regard the people who actually like it and want their money to pay off.
Pirates!! http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/906481/pirate-gp-smuggling-dueling-live-on-ship-or-build-own-and-more#latest
It all comes down to how one feel if it is incomplete for them and done for them and if it is not incomplete for you then it is not, even though EA/Maxis is the one who decides when Sims 4 or even when the Sims series is done. The reason some are say incomplete or done it may be that Sims 4 is lacking features that they wish to see in the game. I really do not care if Sims 5 comes about or not and even if the Sims series comes to an close this is not the only game in the ocean of games being made. Sims 4 has an lot of controversy surrounding itself and will continue to have until this game cease publication. When an person puts Sims 4 in an negative light it is not toxic being it would be depending on the language used, is the language vulgar, words used that is not allowed under the current TOS? If not then that post that is negative is considered feedback and that is what the post is conveying. Guess hater turned to toxic for I see the word toxic being thrown around. The negative comments will not cease as postive comments will not cease.
To me without fast falling motives this game is less simulation and more just an interactive desktop. I don't want my sims to only eat one meal a day as in a proper diet there should be breakfast, dinner, lunch. I also don't' want them to take 2 hours at breakfast, just because they decided to do something else at breakfast, because they have other responsibilities to attend to.
This is sort of what I meant, too. I like to know why I'm feeding my Sim, lol. I had a story going on in TS4, and it mattered to me that I wanted to take one friend to lunch at one type restaurant, and another to dinner at another type restaurant and also to build friendships. That seems normal, right? But these Sims were not that hungry so yes, they gain weight, and I like in the past, I order for my Sim what I wanted them to eat, not what the game would think would be good for them in case the other dish would make them gain weight. So, after awhile if I returned to them on rotation they had gained a lot of weight since they would be at the restuarants or cafes when I went there with another Sim. I have never liked the strict gameplay of having to fill motives ever hour or so, it's true that is annoying, but I also liked food points in older games, knowing if they ate turkey, yes, they were going to get fatter, but just seeing one at the cafe all the time shouldn't put that much weight on them. One at the salad bar restuarant shouldn't put weight on them when you go back to playing them but it does.
It's the core of the Sims to make them successful and happier inspite of all the chaos, motives and troubles that come their way. TS4 to me, was more of a dress up, pose, take a screen shot type game. Or on the flip side grind and grind to fill redundant goals and levels. There is little sandbox inside this game, considering things like family can't even keep rewards if the one who had those rewards dies, nor pass along knowledge, or inheritance, heck we can just delete grandma, and or the heir if we want. It seems pretty shallow still yet, even after it's four year reign. And honestly to me it seems like they have run out of good ideas when they have to say the last world was tiny due to performance, but don't worry some worlds won't be so small..when that was supposed to be a big city with famous residents. None of that made any sense to me, and showed me they are just about out of any good ideas to bring depth and expansion to the game when what they do churn out slowly is less than it was before. Festival use of base game objects proves the ideas aren't flowing. ETA: And after all the tweets, ideas here, feedback here and many other fansites, they still have to take surveys and ask how to improve it. It starts to look like they can't hear or see. ETA: Or they have to take an easier route of what is easier to do..more check lists.
It's a reason to get them out of bed, lol. Or send them to a community lot. If my Sim's fun is full (with nothing in their home to fill it) then what is the point of going out at night? Sure, I can build a story in my head, but I'm conditioned to want to fill the motive (if it's empty) rather than grind on an emotional buff to gain a level. I couldn't care less about some emotional buff, my Sims' traits should be setting their emotional behaviour not the other way around. Bascially, you have swaped the grind of motives to the grind of emotional buffs to gain goals. It's the same difference, and I'm not a player who must fill all aspiratoins, levels and goals. The game to me was always about what happens along the way, but in TS4 not much is happening other than noticing all Sims are the same. One who has a confident trait, will also roll the whim to fix a perfect meal or something like that as one who has a confident emotional buff, and or the creativity trait ETA: And with the one who has a cooking skill....Redundant.
And just off the top of my head, so will the Sim who has the perfectionist trait. So, that there is like four different Sims rolling same whims or doing the same things. And they must not have much confidence these were not redundant if players can just turn off whims now...what, hide the redundancy? It is the least thought out game ever as far as Sim stories are concerned to me. And quite boring to say the least.
ETA: While it's on my mind, the game also forces all Sims to be the same by giving them a charisma skill which some players might not want one Sim to have any at all...but if they tell a joke autonomously bam! they get a point. How about letting players decide what skill they would like their Sims to have?
This is constructive feedback, it points out all the problems with personalites which is what players have been demanding to be changed since day one. There have been dozens and dozens of threads concerning personality. And that is the Sim and it's failure of them to understand or listen. Anyone want more of this? How about these Sims aren't even aware someone else is cooking a meal and they all go in to fix something to eat. Where is the wait for meal like in TS2? Why aren't these Sims smarter than a game from 2004? I will say it again, they can't even face each other and leave out a crowd while they are dancing or on a date....too silly to know how or care how ridiculous this looks to a player let alone how annoying it is when the whole room is dancing with a couple and speaking to a couple.
I have to go today, didn't mean to ramble on, but I don't have much time today. I will just add this too, the code to me seems like total mayhem with very little focus on actual visuals, conceptions, and perceptions. I'm under the impression they have no idea how this game really looks to the player or how it acutally plays out or works.
I don't care much for motives though, they feel restricting at times. I want my sims to do what I want, not do things based on their needs all the time given all the hobbies and side activities that take copious amounts of time or even retail i.e.
Sadly I'm still waiting for someone to do a mod like relativity for TS4, as MCCC is not relative and scales length of actions too.
Using MCCC to adjust game time speed does allow for more to be done in a day, btw. Although the game ties interactions to the clock speed, certain things like how long it takes to walk between two points do take less time.
The Winters family Tree --- My Mods
The Sims is a time management game. At its core it’s about keeping your sims alive while balancing whatever story you are wanting to tell. Sims 4 is very unbalanced in that regard. Needs require little involvement from the player, because they decay so slowly and because sims can pretty much fulfill them all on their own. This makes story telling super easy, which for people looking to do that is great, but for people who are looking for a game and not an interactive story book it’s kind of boring. For me TS4 drags in live mode. With Sims 2 and especially 3 I would play live mode for hours and I would never feel like I have done everything there is to do or get bored of playing the game. With Sims 4 I can play live mode for 30 min to an hour before I finally turn it off. It’s a boring game where nothing really happens unless you go out of your way to make it happen. Some people like that, and some people don’t. I’m on the side of the fence that wants more of a game, not a make your own story book. However, seeing how this game was designed as an online multiplayer hangout game and not a life simulator I’m not surprised it’s strong points appeal to players more interested in the story telling aspects than the actual time management features that make it more of a game.
The direction of the sims franchise from a life simulation game to an iPad-esque, time management game was unfortunate. The game became less deeply immersive and unique for me and nigh impossible for me to support.
I would argue that Sims 4 is less of a time management game than others. In previous games it was all about balancing what you needed to do to keep your sims needs met and giving them a life to live. Sims 4 is more casual, it’s less time management and more just picking something that looks fun and doing it. Great for story tellers, but bad for people looking to play a game.
What I understood was not that it was impossible but much more time consuming than just changing the simulation ticks. You would have to individually change each interaction's speed, and given there are hundreds...well, yeah.
Tedious, yes, but it is tempting and I might just dive into it using MCCC as a reference point.
Perhaps. But the shallow content of ts4 really shows the skeletal leanness of its time management bones more than ts2 or ts3... in my humble opinion. Unlike with ts4, I did not feel that time management was the only reason my sims existed in the ts2 or ts3.