@mirta000 Thank you! That's the point I keep trying to make. I understand Drake's instinct to defend herself and EA. I get that there are things about game development and EA that we don't know, so when we complain it's frustrating for EA because they can't always give us what we want...but it doesn't matter. You don't fix these problems by rabidly defending the company that is creating the issues. People are furious and frustrated, and that's all that SimGuruDrake should focus on. EA needs to look at WHY people are angry...we aren't expecting anything absurd or crazy. When a video game is good, people love it and their communities are positive. If EA wants The Sims community to stop complaining, then they have to fix the game.
I guess they could just say "Tough luck ha ha no toddlers for you-oo" or "So abjectly sorry we didn't give you toddlers, we should all lose our jobs or kill ourselves" and it would still all be the same outcome. Some people would go on ranting about toddlers while some people told the ranters to shut up, and guess what? We will still either get or not get toddlers some time in the future just the same as if they'd said nothing.
i agree inge i think some people are being demanding about toddlers bordering on obesssive that may sound harsh but i think its true abusing moderators on the forum wont give people toddlers i sort of see it as people having a tantrum i understand people wanting toddlers but it was made clear long ago for sims 4 that toddlers would not be in basegame and possibly not at all because of the outdated engine they used for sims 4
outdated engine for Sims 4, thought they said they created a new game engine specifically for Sims 4 ?
@mirta000 Thank you! That's the point I keep trying to make. I understand Drake's instinct to defend herself and EA. I get that there are things about game development and EA that we don't know, so when we complain it's frustrating for EA because they can't always give us what we want...but it doesn't matter. You don't fix these problems by rabidly defending the company that is creating the issues. People are furious and frustrated, and that's all that SimGuruDrake should focus on. EA needs to look at WHY people are angry...we aren't expecting anything absurd or crazy. When a video game is good, people love it and their communities are positive. If EA wants The Sims community to stop complaining, then they have to fix the game.
I'll have a try.
There are a few issues with that.
As I understand it, her job isn't to make us happy. It never has been. It never will be. Her job (remember as I understand it) is to take our feedback and tell it to the team. She does that. Between our feedback, the devs feedback and varying needs a pack is born. Upon taking your feedback, when put in a constructive fashion, as far as she's concerned her job is done and your complaints become invalid (sorry), which is the point (I think) she was trying to make. You (broad you, not specific), however consider her job done when your complaints are acted upon, which the chances of happening are low, and thus you still complain, and your cycle of negativity is born. You sort of have to have a look at your complaints within the scope of her job and think yourselves happy after you've stated them (again sorry). She honestly wasn't trying to be offensive.
That was pretty much my take on what she said.
Also, you are expecting something absurd. You're expecting an answer to a question they can't answer (for a start). You have to accept that they can't answer it, but when they can, they will.
Also, you are expecting something absurd. You're expecting an answer to a question they can't answer (for a start). You have to accept that they can't answer it, but when they can, they will.
silence is better than defensiveness of this level. Never seen a company representative let their emotions run to a point where they would go "you will just never be happy".
Also, you are expecting something absurd. You're expecting an answer to a question they can't answer (for a start). You have to accept that they can't answer it, but when they can, they will.
silence is better than defensiveness of this level. Never seen a company representative let their emotions run to a point where they would go "you will just never be happy".
It wasn't defensiveness or her being overemotional. However I'm not going to talk myself in circles all day. I've said all I'm saying about it
I see that a lot of simmers take issue with how much EA focuses on the Influencers and wanting to maintain and develop relationships with current and future Influencers. Take a look at one of the most well-known and liked Influencers for the Sims 4.
Over 346,000 subscribers to her Sims YouTube channel.
Now suppose instead of limiting yourselves to comments on these forums one of you decided to start a YouTube channel showcasing what you think are all the flaws and problems with Sims 4. Let's Plays that show how you feel about the sims 4 emotions, or lack thereof, the repetitive tasks, the musical chairs, the sims culling, the relationship culling, no toddlers in a life simulator, etc. Let's Plays similar to @EmberDahl's Psychosausage thread. All of these features could result in some awesomely funny stories highlighting what you think is wrong with the Sims 4. Develop a Social Media presence in order to reach like minded simmers. How about that? Do something that's going to make EA/Maxis stand up and notice.
I see that a lot of simmers take issue with how much EA focuses on the Influencers and wanting to maintain and develop relationships with current and future Influencers. Take a look at one of the most well-known and liked Influencers for the Sims 4.
never take youtubers as your main source of influence. Quite simply if its a themed well known channel, just like with developers, the game is their livelyhood. If the game fails, their revenue fails. Meaning some will even fake excitement for certain features just to make sure that their viewership doesn't fall. You can see it the clearest with WoW themed channels. Most of them by now privately had stated that they can't stand the game, but their viewerbase would not take a game change, so they have to be falsely positive. Similar to how one of my friends had to close his channel, because he wanted to do FFXIV stuff, but his fanbase would only accept TF2, despite him no longer liking the game.
I just want to continue addressing comments that were made back on page 10.
A day away from Maxis makes a huge difference in what I initially wanted to say. So, I will address this.
Quote from SGDrake's remarks to customers.
And Lastly:
'Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.'
I'm going to answer this with all the graciousness I can muster at this time. First, if when someone tells someone they have bent over backwards with them you are not building any bridges. You are fueling the flames. The above statement to look at ourselves in a mirror is more vitriol that has come from you since day one. How are you winning hearts and minds with that sort of backhanded insult? Granted I am no happy camper but let me tell you what you can do to make me happy.
You can stop saying what all you have done for the community when I haven't seen any results. You can stop pointing out what type of Community Manager you were before or within this first year here, because guess what customers care about a product not what you do. Is that speaking plainly enough? I speak plainly and I see Maxis disrespecting it's customers like they are mindless teens who can't see the vicious, lack of respect you have for those who keep you in business.
Yes, there are a zillion things developers can do for players. Like remove relationship culling and decay. Remove decorative buffs that override traits. Build a better game. Stop putting out bug ridden packs, that only break more stuff and bring more culling, and stop telling me I'm the problem. No, sorry, it's you and the head of Maxis, the Creative Director and I would never blame those down in the trenches because I know they are probably capable of building a better game. But not sure about the head of Maxis, the previous Creative Director, not seen any proof the new one is going to be any better, and you. When you all get off your high horse and stop patronizing us like we are two year olds and talk to me like I'm an adult because I'm not going to cheer when you tell me what all you had to do and give up your weekends etc. If you don't like that, quit. Now, is that plain enough?
Have a fun day. Because I won't be with TS4.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
This talk about not telling us anything... Well, I must say I am tired of hearing, "We're Listening." I've had to Listen to that since before the game was released.
When the hated Yibsims- not hated by me- came back from the 1st Gamescom, they told everyone that Maxis was Listening, that they do "Get it" what we were saying but it was not true. Maxis only said that when we gave feedback about what was told them from their groups. The standard reply was, "We hear you," "We get it," "We're Listening."
When I hear that from Maxis, I know it's their standard reply and it means nothing.
Yet, Yet... once word was spread that they, "Get" that we (from a lot of people) loved CASt and Open Worlds, they did come out and say there would be no CASt and the world would not be open. They actually said it, they told us. That was good to know. Kept me from getting excited about the game again.
And still, yet again, they will not say either if they are or are not working on the big "T." Is that good or is that bad? Is it to keep people hanging on and not leaving or because they still just haven't been able to get them to work. It would be sad if they can't get them to work in their own game. As we know there is only 1 life stage in this game- YA. Babies are just tied to a bassinet.
*I will add that Toddlers are not what I hold as dear in this game. I hold it dear for all the players who have begged to know just a hint on if they are working or are not working on them. One little leaked- Maxis style leak- picture of them being worked on would be such a positive move by them... even if they said they don't know when or how they would be added.
Me?~ the game is weak, boring, monotonous, overly happy, too saturated, too easy, too the same Sim feel to each, too low detailed, too... not me yet. Maybe one day .... there is always tomorrow.
Maybe one day.. But a lot of simmers has left, or is about to leave. It's far harder to bring back disappointed players than it is to attract them in the first place.
And if Sims 4 is following the earlier sims games lifespans, there's only about 2 years and 7 months left to try to wow the fans.
As a comparison, within the first 2 years of Sims 2 we got really meety, full of gameplay EP:s - University, Nightlife, Open for business and also Pets just one month after the 2 year mark.
I have absolutely nothing against the "Influencers." They're doing what works for them, I respect their opinion, and I'm glad they like the game. But if EA/Maxis wants to really impress me and motivate me to remain loyal and interested in their product, they could do a lot by winning back the interest of former Influencers who now share and voice the concerns I have with Sims 4. THAT would make me stand up and take notice.
Influencers, to me means Maxis is expecting them to influence the populous to buy. No thanks, I never watch Let's Play (boring, old man snoring) videos, never would though I caught a few because someone ask me to take a look. Some people are funny but I go to sleep during those things. Maxis doesn't realize there is a sect of people (young people) who will say they have played a game because they watched a Youtuber do a Let's Play. lol How is that working Maxis? Did it result in money for you? I mean they think they have played it after all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Influencers, to me means Maxis is expecting them to influence the populous to buy. No thanks, I never watch Let's Play (boring, old man snoring) videos, never would though I caught a few because someone ask me to take a look. Some people are funny but I go to sleep during those things. Maxis doesn't realize there is a sect of people (young people) who will say they have played a game because they watched a Youtuber do a Let's Play. lol How is that working Maxis? Did it result in money for you? I mean they think they have played it after all.
I stopped watching Let's Plays. I kept wanting to grab their mouse and slap them upside the head for playing wrong. Not worth getting bent out of shape with frustration for.
Seriously?
What is the point of asking questions when we know all are we gonna get is "We cannot talk about future content"!!
Then what are you going to talk about?? An SP that was released 2 months ago??
No, they're going to talk about the decision process for inviting someone to be an Influencer, and the role they play, I think. This is actually of interest to those people who wish to join that group and be invited to future EA events, so it has its place.
You mean to be EA's unofficial advertiser and go ga ga over things like:
"oh I can't believe how awesome is the culling feature in my game"
"Yaay no more headache with more life stages, this is the best game, go and buy it!
"Who needs weather, rain or snow, everybody is happy with a sunny day"
"SP no.17 is way better than the last EP we got two years ago, go and get it"
No thanks, no body is going to have influence on me. The product itself will and it keeps failing to grow as they promised.
Their "strong foundation" was just a thing to make us buy it.
This made me laugh so hard
Peter Moore said "I'm not too sure, that press conferences have a future".
All this just sounds fishy to me, as if they expect bad reviews or something.
With no E3 press conference or other media coverage, I might not even find out about that upcoming game, and it's perhaps just as well then. I certainly wouldn't go to an influencers site if I wanted to see unbiased opinions.
EA did have a big Press Conference also for the E3 - as well. The day before the E3 began I believe it was.
Actually EA did do a press conference at Gamescom after all, about THEIR, I guess, more important BIG games. MAXIS of course was absent from both.
Ah ok, because we “a hard-core bunch, a very hard-core bunch” because we expect a next-generation Sims game to not be watered down and to build upon previous iterations of the game.
I see that a lot of simmers take issue with how much EA focuses on the Influencers and wanting to maintain and develop relationships with current and future Influencers. Take a look at one of the most well-known and liked Influencers for the Sims 4.
Over 346,000 subscribers to her Sims YouTube channel.
Now suppose instead of limiting yourselves to comments on these forums one of you decided to start a YouTube channel showcasing what you think are all the flaws and problems with Sims 4. Let's Plays that show how you feel about the sims 4 emotions, or lack thereof, the repetitive tasks, the musical chairs, the sims culling, the relationship culling, no toddlers in a life simulator, etc. Let's Plays similar to @EmberDahl's Psychosausage thread. All of these features could result in some awesomely funny stories highlighting what you think is wrong with the Sims 4. Develop a Social Media presence in order to reach like minded simmers. How about that? Do something that's going to make EA/Maxis stand up and notice.
People do this effectively in the forums. Some users spend the majority of their hours at the forum solely for this. They do it with great effort, dedication to the franchise, and in a mature manner, with no intention other than improving the game for themselves, their friends, and the rest of the community.
There is no reason why someone should have to dedicate hours upon hours of their life to develop a persona online, and upload videos of themselves doing nothing but playing the game. Why should that be necessary to have a voice within the development of the game? How come EVERY SINGLE OTHER video game I follow incorporates ALL of their fans' feedback into the development process? Why is it EA that thinks this is any better, when their PR following TS3 up till now has been absolute garbage?
People had issues with the YibSims(Sibs?) from the get go. Nobody likes having random YouTubers or Internet personalities speak for them. A lot of these personalities, might I add, are similar in many ways, and the Influencer selection does not seem to be diverse enough.
EA has this feedback category of the forums which seems like nothing more than a venting category when you look and see they are STILL maintaining this influencer/YibSim garbage. Their choice in not scrapping the initiative, but actually RENAMING it and continuing it on is pretty symbolic of just a portion of their flaws with The Sims as of late.
Maybe after those who attend the panel talk about what we shared you might understand how our development works and why we wait to talk about content until we are ready to (and this panel is going to be the most insight you will probably ever get about how our production / development works). If you still think we aren't being transparent after that then I honestly don't know what to say.
*you meaning our "core" fans as a collective meaning but in know way means it represents everyone
@SimGuruDrake Here is a major problem that I am not sure has been discussed: most people did not have access to this panel. For whatever reasons, the bozos over at EA decided not to broadcast nor record the panel for public viewing. We have to dig up blog posts that may or may not have the correct information and quoting in order to understand this process. Do you understand how inaccessible this is? You don't know why people don't think you are transparent? Here's a tip: don't create a panel that gives lots of information that is also closed to the public for viewing. Why would you not make it available for everyone to see? It literally makes no sense at all. This contradicts your statement on how you want to be open and transparent. It also has the potential for confusion if one of the attendees misquotes you or one of your colleagues. The panel was poorly executed for anyone else who wasn't in the room at Gamescom (newsflash: you have American fans too). Honestly, the only way for me to think about it is that this was just a really stupid mistake that apparently nobody thought about. If you have any information on why it was executed this way, please enlighten me. I really don't see any reason why it couldn't be done for everyone (especially if it has information extremely pertinent to the community).
Influencers, to me means Maxis is expecting them to influence the populous to buy. No thanks, I never watch Let's Play (boring, old man snoring) videos, never would though I caught a few because someone ask me to take a look. Some people are funny but I go to sleep during those things. Maxis doesn't realize there is a sect of people (young people) who will say they have played a game because they watched a Youtuber do a Let's Play. lol How is that working Maxis? Did it result in money for you? I mean they think they have played it after all.
I stopped watching Let's Plays. I kept wanting to grab their mouse and slap them upside the head for playing wrong. Not worth getting bent out of shape with frustration for.
Generally I'll watch LGR review a pack because he'll do it with humor, doesn't take forever and will tell how he honestly feels. Once in a while I'll watch a LP by Pushing up roses because she also approaches it all from a humorous point of view but she tends to make them too long and I end up losing interest.
As for the others, I get tired of the lack of professionalism and the um, er kind of voice over....some of these can also take f-o-r-e-v-e-r or have a really irritating rah, rah, cheerleader quality that is more abrasive than informative.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
Gawh! I've tried to talk into a mic for How To videos on CAW but I'm Not Goodly at talkin' and really have no desire to be popular. I never feel right putting a "Donate" button on my blog for all the worlds I made so I never did. If I never felt right about that, how would I be able to put up ads for people to watch me have fun makin' worlds to get paid- which most of them do or want to do.
So, yeaah - I don't think Everyone has the looks or charisma to make it in the world of let's plays. I doubt I could get anyone to watch me make worlds since I always ended up not saying much through the whole video. It was Zen for me.... O.O
Surprised at how they don't at least use Gamescom to show some béhind the scenes game decelopment stuff, instead of telling is what game packs are…
If they're not gonna show future content, at least show us what it's like to make past content. Like modeling, texturing, audio recording, world and outfit designs, etc…
~I just like lifestates. Is that too much to ask for?~
Personally I do sometimes enjoy watching the You tubers do their thing with the various Sims games as I do sometimes enjoy watching their build and even get a kick out of some of their play styles - but it does not mean I adopt any of their play style of course, as I have my own style I enjoy playing - but yeah - it is sometimes fun to take another persons take on the game.
That much said though - I don't feel any of them could speak for me or feel the depth of play I feel playing my own game. It does not mean I can't enjoy watching another person play though. Having 31 Simmers in my own family - believe me I have ample opportunities to observe how others of ALL AGES play the game - first hand. I do know that unlike previous The Sims series games, most of my family has not stayed with the Sims 4 - just one lone player out of 31 still plays Sims 4 rather regularly (it's not me, I am playing both Sims 2 and Sims 3). At most I play the challenges if freebies are involved. LOL.
The other 30 of us have stopped buying and either returned to Sims 3, a few to Sims 2 (no one to Sims 1 - lol) or gave up on the Sims period - that is just 5 of them who all vow they want to come back if the game ever gets its act together. One thing in common in my family is everyone - all 31 are mad about no toddlers and no cars.
Not all of us watch the Sims series you tubers - but some of us do. Oh and just to add - I am the only one of the 31 that frequents the forum everyday - the one still playing used to come on the Sims 2 and 3 forum - but she never comes to the Sims 4 forum because she said all her forum friends won't play Sims 4.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Surprised at how they don't at least use Gamescom to show some béhind the scenes game decelopment stuff, instead of telling is what game packs are…
If they're not gonna show future content, at least show us what it's like to make past content. Like modeling, texturing, audio recording, world and outfit designs, etc…
Pay no attention to the little people behind the curtain.
Post edited by A_Culler on
Loneliness is a tax we have to pay to atone for a certain complexity of mind.
"I have yet to find a gold so pure that it's worth it's weight in dog."
To all the people who said they're tired of complaints about toddlers / toddlers hijacking the conversation about what's lacking in TS4: I really do not on principle disagree with you. I like toddlers in TS3, but I don't love them, and if they'd be the only thing missing from TS4, I don't think I would care very much at all. I know there'd still be people who'd be very unhappy about that, and I do not on principle disagree with them either, but I wouldn't spend my time responding to these kinds of thread if that'd be all the game was missing. I'd be playing TS4 instead.
But what someone said about toddlers (or even CAW) being a symbol? Yeah, kind of. It's not that they're necessarily a symbol for what "the sims" is, but they're definitely a symbol for what's wrong with TS4: the fact that this is not a life simulation game, because it lacks - in nearly every area - the very complexity necessary to imitate life at all.
See when I complain about "what TS4 lacks in essential features", I actually rarely think of toddlers first, if at all. The thing that bugs me most about TS4 is its simplicity. The fact that it skips over an entire life stage, jumping from baby to a perfectly happy child whose traits I can always choose (regardless of how much time I spent with the baby) isn't the cause for this game's emptiness. It's a glaring symptom. Besides, this 'baby' isn't even a sim at all (that's why it has no needs & can't be carried around), It's an in-game object, pure and simple, and my sim can interact with it to produce simple in-game animations. Just like bird-feeding, really. Nothing more. It has no memories, no personality, and no actual needs. But when I speak of TS4 being an empty, unfinished game, I do not relate this to toddlers. That is where this simplicity problem sticks out to some. To others, it's tools like CAW. To me, it's mostly these three things: interactions, autonomous actions & emotions.
First, autonomous actions simply don't happen in TS4. You know, in TS3, a supernatural fan pretty much has to be kept from discussing magic and casting spells 24/7. A workaholic has to be kept from his computer because whenever you stop watching them, there they sit working instead of taking care of their children. Gardeners go out and garden. Neat sims get up and make their bed. Every. single. time. Sure, this system wasn't perfect. But honestly, in TS4, it doesn't exist. They almost always play computer games when left to their own devices (uch), or are on their phones. They rarely ever do things autonomously that you'd think their traits would make them do.
Next, Interactions have been reduced to ash. For one, because I feel there are far less interactions available to your sims in the first place, and for another because the "special" interactions we saw in TS3 (which were interactions available to specific traits) do in a way still exist, but most of them are not exclusively available to only those sims that have the right traits. Most of them, in fact, are just as readily available to all other sims, no matter how different they are, if they get into specific moods. So although there are still special interactions in TS4 (even if they're not grouped together as they were before), a huge amount of these interactions will be just as accessible to other sims who have completely different traits. This combined with the fact that here are far less interactions to choose from in the first place, means that you'll quickly cycle through all the available traits & interactions multiple times.
That is because the traits' primary objective is to boost specific emotions & to make the interactions related to these emotions always readily available to that sim (with a few exceptions, like the kleptomaniac trait whose interaction to swipe cannot be caused by emotions either - but this is, again, an exception). And this is generally a huge problem with TS4's emotional system. It's not that I don't like it in principle, but it's executed extremely superficially. Emotions do not do anything but create whims (wants to play an instrument, wants to flirt, wants to do this/that) & slightly augment the performance of certain actions (build skills faster, write books that fit that mood faster, work out better, etc. etc.). That is it. That is literally all they do. The only difference is that they're now spilled out for us as emotions (although "sad" sims existed before) and subdivided into a few categories (inspired, happy, flirty, sad, etc.): combined with a whole set of objects & moodlets (also not new) that can cause a subset of emotions. Sims before were either happy or not. So yes, that decor can trigger 'inspired' or 'flirty feelings' specifically is sort of new. But none of the interactions related to these emotional buffs are new. None of the actions are either. And many of the things that cause them also aren't. That's why so many keep saying that emotions add nothing fundamental to the game that didn't in principle exist in the sims before. They're just categorized differently.
And they are caused by way too many things because "the new emotions are cool". That's exactly why an embarrassed sim who's also got a happy buff for food and an inspired buff for his nicely decorated bedroom simply won't feel embarrassed. You won't see a sim failing at social interactions and walking around ashamed for two days like you did in TS 3 when their stuff was taken by the repo guy (again, which gave them new interactions). The good always outweighs the bad. And that empties the entire game. So if you realize that emotions add nothing fundamentally different to the game, and instead just repackage what was already in the games before, and that these repackaged things, interactions/actions/traits have been extremely watered down, you realize you're playing an extremely simplified and dumbed-down version of a game you used to love. And yeah, maybe EA should just at some point admit that they took a highly beloved game and turned it into something else, something less substantial than it was before, and that they're either committed to fixing it, or not.
Alright whatever. This post is way too long, I'm sorry, but I hate this discussion being reduced to toddlers. I don't want EA to think that toddlers alone would be enough to fix what so many people feel to be wrong with this game. Toddlers will NEVER FIX any of these flaws. Toddlers are a symptom of the same disease: superficiality. An unfinished game that was designed to be played on mobile (therefore having all the flaws other mobile games have too). It's a game that doesn't allow you to create sims with depth. Sims who lead bad lives, who are unlucky. Or sims who are anything else either to an extreme. They're all slightly differentiated flavors of utterly boring sameness. And this wasn't the case in any other sims game. That is why sandbox is gone, that is why people are frustrated, that is why a missing life stage is so symptomatic of all these discussions - why they do in fact hijack the conversation. Because we want that depth back, to play a life simulation game. And not a mobile platform game that is easy, happy, fast, and beyond anything that resembles life.
But I will stop here because it's so, so, so hard for me to explain this at all.... and I feel like this post is already way longer than I intended it to be ...
I just want to continue addressing comments that were made back on page 10.
A day away from Maxis makes a huge difference in what I initially wanted to say. So, I will address this.
Quote from SGDrake's remarks to customers.
And Lastly:
'Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.'
I'm going to answer this with all the graciousness I can muster at this time. First, if when someone tells someone they have bent over backwards with them you are not building any bridges. You are fueling the flames. The above statement to look at ourselves in a mirror is more vitriol that has come from you since day one. How are you winning hearts and minds with that sort of backhanded insult? Granted I am no happy camper but let me tell you what you can do to make me happy.
You can stop saying what all you have done for the community when I haven't seen any results. You can stop pointing out what type of Community Manager you were before or within this first year here, because guess what customers care about a product not what you do. Is that speaking plainly enough? I speak plainly and I see Maxis disrespecting it's customers like they are mindless teens who can't see the vicious, lack of respect you have for those who keep you in business.
Yes, there are a zillion things developers can do for players. Like remove relationship culling and decay. Remove decorative buffs that override traits. Build a better game. Stop putting out bug ridden packs, that only break more stuff and bring more culling, and stop telling me I'm the problem. No, sorry, it's you and the head of Maxis, the Creative Director and I would never blame those down in the trenches because I know they are probably capable of building a better game. But not sure about the head of Maxis, the previous Creative Director, not seen any proof the new one is going to be any better, and you. When you all get off your high horse and stop patronizing us like we are two year olds and talk to me like I'm an adult because I'm not going to cheer when you tell me what all you had to do and give up your weekends etc. If you don't like that, quit. Now, is that plain enough?
Have a fun day. Because I won't be with TS4.
This is the most epic post ever!
I'm sorry, @SimGuruDrake ...I really am. I wanted to be nice and respectful but I've had it with the backhanded insults. All you do is complain about how hard EA works and how terrible and ignorant and stubborn the fans are. Enough. The game is broken. Stop blaming us. Stop saying that you aren't blaming us, because you saying it doesn't make it true. We're all angry, as you can see, so obviously something isn't working with the communications strategy.
Stop defending yourself...we don't want to hear it. We don't want excuses. We want change. We want real transparency...not the kind that you tout, the kind that is really just you explaining why EA can't tell us anything. It's been two years and the information we've gotten has been completely unacceptable. The quality of the game is completely unacceptable.
And I genuinely do not understand how you can tell us that we aren't being kept in the dark with a straight face. How can you say that? How can you say that we need to be patient? We've waited and hoped for two years, and there's still absolutely no hope of any of our prayers being answered. We feel like fools for wasting that time hoping for something that would never come. We don't trust EA anymore. And most of all, we're tired. So, so tired. I spend so much of my life running Sims4News. I have over 25,000 dedicated followers who are, for the most part, as frustrated as I am. Don't say that we aren't patient. Don't tell us that we aren't trying. We all want to love the game. That's why I'm sitting here right now writing this.
Stop defending yourself. Stop shutting us down. Stop trying to convince us not to be angry. We are angry for a reason. Focus on that reason. Focus on the issues with the game, not the fans. If the game is good, most of us will be happy.
Comments
outdated engine for Sims 4, thought they said they created a new game engine specifically for Sims 4 ?
ETA: they did say the game engine for Sims 4 was new
http://honeywellsims4news.tumblr.com/page/46
Ryan Vaughan calls it "new technology" http://simsvip.com/2013/08/31/sims-4-interview-wryan-vaughan/
http://gamerant.com/the-sims-4-reviews/
http://simsvip.com/2013/08/25/sims-4-game-engine-smartsim-technology/
This site also says "new technology"
I'll have a try.
There are a few issues with that.
As I understand it, her job isn't to make us happy. It never has been. It never will be. Her job (remember as I understand it) is to take our feedback and tell it to the team. She does that. Between our feedback, the devs feedback and varying needs a pack is born. Upon taking your feedback, when put in a constructive fashion, as far as she's concerned her job is done and your complaints become invalid (sorry), which is the point (I think) she was trying to make. You (broad you, not specific), however consider her job done when your complaints are acted upon, which the chances of happening are low, and thus you still complain, and your cycle of negativity is born. You sort of have to have a look at your complaints within the scope of her job and think yourselves happy after you've stated them (again sorry). She honestly wasn't trying to be offensive.
That was pretty much my take on what she said.
Also, you are expecting something absurd. You're expecting an answer to a question they can't answer (for a start). You have to accept that they can't answer it, but when they can, they will.
silence is better than defensiveness of this level. Never seen a company representative let their emotions run to a point where they would go "you will just never be happy".
It wasn't defensiveness or her being overemotional. However I'm not going to talk myself in circles all day. I've said all I'm saying about it
Over 346,000 subscribers to her Sims YouTube channel.
Now suppose instead of limiting yourselves to comments on these forums one of you decided to start a YouTube channel showcasing what you think are all the flaws and problems with Sims 4. Let's Plays that show how you feel about the sims 4 emotions, or lack thereof, the repetitive tasks, the musical chairs, the sims culling, the relationship culling, no toddlers in a life simulator, etc. Let's Plays similar to @EmberDahl's Psychosausage thread. All of these features could result in some awesomely funny stories highlighting what you think is wrong with the Sims 4. Develop a Social Media presence in order to reach like minded simmers. How about that? Do something that's going to make EA/Maxis stand up and notice.
never take youtubers as your main source of influence. Quite simply if its a themed well known channel, just like with developers, the game is their livelyhood. If the game fails, their revenue fails. Meaning some will even fake excitement for certain features just to make sure that their viewership doesn't fall. You can see it the clearest with WoW themed channels. Most of them by now privately had stated that they can't stand the game, but their viewerbase would not take a game change, so they have to be falsely positive. Similar to how one of my friends had to close his channel, because he wanted to do FFXIV stuff, but his fanbase would only accept TF2, despite him no longer liking the game.
A day away from Maxis makes a huge difference in what I initially wanted to say. So, I will address this.
Quote from SGDrake's remarks to customers.
And Lastly:
'Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.'
I'm going to answer this with all the graciousness I can muster at this time. First, if when someone tells someone they have bent over backwards with them you are not building any bridges. You are fueling the flames. The above statement to look at ourselves in a mirror is more vitriol that has come from you since day one. How are you winning hearts and minds with that sort of backhanded insult? Granted I am no happy camper but let me tell you what you can do to make me happy.
You can stop saying what all you have done for the community when I haven't seen any results. You can stop pointing out what type of Community Manager you were before or within this first year here, because guess what customers care about a product not what you do. Is that speaking plainly enough? I speak plainly and I see Maxis disrespecting it's customers like they are mindless teens who can't see the vicious, lack of respect you have for those who keep you in business.
Yes, there are a zillion things developers can do for players. Like remove relationship culling and decay. Remove decorative buffs that override traits. Build a better game. Stop putting out bug ridden packs, that only break more stuff and bring more culling, and stop telling me I'm the problem. No, sorry, it's you and the head of Maxis, the Creative Director and I would never blame those down in the trenches because I know they are probably capable of building a better game. But not sure about the head of Maxis, the previous Creative Director, not seen any proof the new one is going to be any better, and you. When you all get off your high horse and stop patronizing us like we are two year olds and talk to me like I'm an adult because I'm not going to cheer when you tell me what all you had to do and give up your weekends etc. If you don't like that, quit. Now, is that plain enough?
Have a fun day. Because I won't be with TS4.
This talk about not telling us anything... Well, I must say I am tired of hearing, "We're Listening." I've had to Listen to that since before the game was released.
When the hated Yibsims- not hated by me- came back from the 1st Gamescom, they told everyone that Maxis was Listening, that they do "Get it" what we were saying but it was not true. Maxis only said that when we gave feedback about what was told them from their groups. The standard reply was, "We hear you," "We get it," "We're Listening."
When I hear that from Maxis, I know it's their standard reply and it means nothing.
Yet, Yet... once word was spread that they, "Get" that we (from a lot of people) loved CASt and Open Worlds, they did come out and say there would be no CASt and the world would not be open. They actually said it, they told us. That was good to know. Kept me from getting excited about the game again.
And still, yet again, they will not say either if they are or are not working on the big "T." Is that good or is that bad? Is it to keep people hanging on and not leaving or because they still just haven't been able to get them to work. It would be sad if they can't get them to work in their own game. As we know there is only 1 life stage in this game- YA. Babies are just tied to a bassinet.
*I will add that Toddlers are not what I hold as dear in this game. I hold it dear for all the players who have begged to know just a hint on if they are working or are not working on them. One little leaked- Maxis style leak- picture of them being worked on would be such a positive move by them... even if they said they don't know when or how they would be added.
Me?~ the game is weak, boring, monotonous, overly happy, too saturated, too easy, too the same Sim feel to each, too low detailed, too... not me yet. Maybe one day .... there is always tomorrow.
And if Sims 4 is following the earlier sims games lifespans, there's only about 2 years and 7 months left to try to wow the fans.
As a comparison, within the first 2 years of Sims 2 we got really meety, full of gameplay EP:s - University, Nightlife, Open for business and also Pets just one month after the 2 year mark.
Daily Deals Rotation Thread
Love kids stuff? Check this out!
Cascades & Daily Deals-Get the best bang for your simpoints
I stopped watching Let's Plays. I kept wanting to grab their mouse and slap them upside the head for playing wrong. Not worth getting bent out of shape with frustration for.
EA did have a big Press Conference also for the E3 - as well. The day before the E3 began I believe it was.
Actually EA did do a press conference at Gamescom after all, about THEIR, I guess, more important BIG games. MAXIS of course was absent from both.
It starts around the 25 minute area of this stream -
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
People do this effectively in the forums. Some users spend the majority of their hours at the forum solely for this. They do it with great effort, dedication to the franchise, and in a mature manner, with no intention other than improving the game for themselves, their friends, and the rest of the community.
There is no reason why someone should have to dedicate hours upon hours of their life to develop a persona online, and upload videos of themselves doing nothing but playing the game. Why should that be necessary to have a voice within the development of the game? How come EVERY SINGLE OTHER video game I follow incorporates ALL of their fans' feedback into the development process? Why is it EA that thinks this is any better, when their PR following TS3 up till now has been absolute garbage?
People had issues with the YibSims(Sibs?) from the get go. Nobody likes having random YouTubers or Internet personalities speak for them. A lot of these personalities, might I add, are similar in many ways, and the Influencer selection does not seem to be diverse enough.
EA has this feedback category of the forums which seems like nothing more than a venting category when you look and see they are STILL maintaining this influencer/YibSim garbage. Their choice in not scrapping the initiative, but actually RENAMING it and continuing it on is pretty symbolic of just a portion of their flaws with The Sims as of late.
@SimGuruDrake Here is a major problem that I am not sure has been discussed: most people did not have access to this panel. For whatever reasons, the bozos over at EA decided not to broadcast nor record the panel for public viewing. We have to dig up blog posts that may or may not have the correct information and quoting in order to understand this process. Do you understand how inaccessible this is? You don't know why people don't think you are transparent? Here's a tip: don't create a panel that gives lots of information that is also closed to the public for viewing. Why would you not make it available for everyone to see? It literally makes no sense at all. This contradicts your statement on how you want to be open and transparent. It also has the potential for confusion if one of the attendees misquotes you or one of your colleagues. The panel was poorly executed for anyone else who wasn't in the room at Gamescom (newsflash: you have American fans too). Honestly, the only way for me to think about it is that this was just a really stupid mistake that apparently nobody thought about. If you have any information on why it was executed this way, please enlighten me. I really don't see any reason why it couldn't be done for everyone (especially if it has information extremely pertinent to the community).
Generally I'll watch LGR review a pack because he'll do it with humor, doesn't take forever and will tell how he honestly feels. Once in a while I'll watch a LP by Pushing up roses because she also approaches it all from a humorous point of view but she tends to make them too long and I end up losing interest.
As for the others, I get tired of the lack of professionalism and the um, er kind of voice over....some of these can also take f-o-r-e-v-e-r or have a really irritating rah, rah, cheerleader quality that is more abrasive than informative.
So, yeaah - I don't think Everyone has the looks or charisma to make it in the world of let's plays. I doubt I could get anyone to watch me make worlds since I always ended up not saying much through the whole video. It was Zen for me.... O.O
If they're not gonna show future content, at least show us what it's like to make past content. Like modeling, texturing, audio recording, world and outfit designs, etc…
That much said though - I don't feel any of them could speak for me or feel the depth of play I feel playing my own game. It does not mean I can't enjoy watching another person play though. Having 31 Simmers in my own family - believe me I have ample opportunities to observe how others of ALL AGES play the game - first hand. I do know that unlike previous The Sims series games, most of my family has not stayed with the Sims 4 - just one lone player out of 31 still plays Sims 4 rather regularly (it's not me, I am playing both Sims 2 and Sims 3). At most I play the challenges if freebies are involved. LOL.
The other 30 of us have stopped buying and either returned to Sims 3, a few to Sims 2 (no one to Sims 1 - lol) or gave up on the Sims period - that is just 5 of them who all vow they want to come back if the game ever gets its act together. One thing in common in my family is everyone - all 31 are mad about no toddlers and no cars.
Not all of us watch the Sims series you tubers - but some of us do. Oh and just to add - I am the only one of the 31 that frequents the forum everyday - the one still playing used to come on the Sims 2 and 3 forum - but she never comes to the Sims 4 forum because she said all her forum friends won't play Sims 4.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Pay no attention to the little people behind the curtain.
"I have yet to find a gold so pure that it's worth it's weight in dog."
Generally my You Tube watching is more centered around RL such as crafts, etc.
But what someone said about toddlers (or even CAW) being a symbol? Yeah, kind of. It's not that they're necessarily a symbol for what "the sims" is, but they're definitely a symbol for what's wrong with TS4: the fact that this is not a life simulation game, because it lacks - in nearly every area - the very complexity necessary to imitate life at all.
See when I complain about "what TS4 lacks in essential features", I actually rarely think of toddlers first, if at all. The thing that bugs me most about TS4 is its simplicity. The fact that it skips over an entire life stage, jumping from baby to a perfectly happy child whose traits I can always choose (regardless of how much time I spent with the baby) isn't the cause for this game's emptiness. It's a glaring symptom. Besides, this 'baby' isn't even a sim at all (that's why it has no needs & can't be carried around), It's an in-game object, pure and simple, and my sim can interact with it to produce simple in-game animations. Just like bird-feeding, really. Nothing more. It has no memories, no personality, and no actual needs. But when I speak of TS4 being an empty, unfinished game, I do not relate this to toddlers. That is where this simplicity problem sticks out to some. To others, it's tools like CAW. To me, it's mostly these three things: interactions, autonomous actions & emotions.
First, autonomous actions simply don't happen in TS4. You know, in TS3, a supernatural fan pretty much has to be kept from discussing magic and casting spells 24/7. A workaholic has to be kept from his computer because whenever you stop watching them, there they sit working instead of taking care of their children. Gardeners go out and garden. Neat sims get up and make their bed. Every. single. time. Sure, this system wasn't perfect. But honestly, in TS4, it doesn't exist. They almost always play computer games when left to their own devices (uch), or are on their phones. They rarely ever do things autonomously that you'd think their traits would make them do.
Next, Interactions have been reduced to ash. For one, because I feel there are far less interactions available to your sims in the first place, and for another because the "special" interactions we saw in TS3 (which were interactions available to specific traits) do in a way still exist, but most of them are not exclusively available to only those sims that have the right traits. Most of them, in fact, are just as readily available to all other sims, no matter how different they are, if they get into specific moods. So although there are still special interactions in TS4 (even if they're not grouped together as they were before), a huge amount of these interactions will be just as accessible to other sims who have completely different traits. This combined with the fact that here are far less interactions to choose from in the first place, means that you'll quickly cycle through all the available traits & interactions multiple times.
That is because the traits' primary objective is to boost specific emotions & to make the interactions related to these emotions always readily available to that sim (with a few exceptions, like the kleptomaniac trait whose interaction to swipe cannot be caused by emotions either - but this is, again, an exception). And this is generally a huge problem with TS4's emotional system. It's not that I don't like it in principle, but it's executed extremely superficially. Emotions do not do anything but create whims (wants to play an instrument, wants to flirt, wants to do this/that) & slightly augment the performance of certain actions (build skills faster, write books that fit that mood faster, work out better, etc. etc.). That is it. That is literally all they do. The only difference is that they're now spilled out for us as emotions (although "sad" sims existed before) and subdivided into a few categories (inspired, happy, flirty, sad, etc.): combined with a whole set of objects & moodlets (also not new) that can cause a subset of emotions. Sims before were either happy or not. So yes, that decor can trigger 'inspired' or 'flirty feelings' specifically is sort of new. But none of the interactions related to these emotional buffs are new. None of the actions are either. And many of the things that cause them also aren't. That's why so many keep saying that emotions add nothing fundamental to the game that didn't in principle exist in the sims before. They're just categorized differently.
And they are caused by way too many things because "the new emotions are cool". That's exactly why an embarrassed sim who's also got a happy buff for food and an inspired buff for his nicely decorated bedroom simply won't feel embarrassed. You won't see a sim failing at social interactions and walking around ashamed for two days like you did in TS 3 when their stuff was taken by the repo guy (again, which gave them new interactions). The good always outweighs the bad. And that empties the entire game. So if you realize that emotions add nothing fundamentally different to the game, and instead just repackage what was already in the games before, and that these repackaged things, interactions/actions/traits have been extremely watered down, you realize you're playing an extremely simplified and dumbed-down version of a game you used to love. And yeah, maybe EA should just at some point admit that they took a highly beloved game and turned it into something else, something less substantial than it was before, and that they're either committed to fixing it, or not.
Alright whatever. This post is way too long, I'm sorry, but I hate this discussion being reduced to toddlers. I don't want EA to think that toddlers alone would be enough to fix what so many people feel to be wrong with this game. Toddlers will NEVER FIX any of these flaws. Toddlers are a symptom of the same disease: superficiality. An unfinished game that was designed to be played on mobile (therefore having all the flaws other mobile games have too). It's a game that doesn't allow you to create sims with depth. Sims who lead bad lives, who are unlucky. Or sims who are anything else either to an extreme. They're all slightly differentiated flavors of utterly boring sameness. And this wasn't the case in any other sims game. That is why sandbox is gone, that is why people are frustrated, that is why a missing life stage is so symptomatic of all these discussions - why they do in fact hijack the conversation. Because we want that depth back, to play a life simulation game. And not a mobile platform game that is easy, happy, fast, and beyond anything that resembles life.
But I will stop here because it's so, so, so hard for me to explain this at all.... and I feel like this post is already way longer than I intended it to be ...
This is the most epic post ever!
I'm sorry, @SimGuruDrake ...I really am. I wanted to be nice and respectful but I've had it with the backhanded insults. All you do is complain about how hard EA works and how terrible and ignorant and stubborn the fans are. Enough. The game is broken. Stop blaming us. Stop saying that you aren't blaming us, because you saying it doesn't make it true. We're all angry, as you can see, so obviously something isn't working with the communications strategy.
Stop defending yourself...we don't want to hear it. We don't want excuses. We want change. We want real transparency...not the kind that you tout, the kind that is really just you explaining why EA can't tell us anything. It's been two years and the information we've gotten has been completely unacceptable. The quality of the game is completely unacceptable.
And I genuinely do not understand how you can tell us that we aren't being kept in the dark with a straight face. How can you say that? How can you say that we need to be patient? We've waited and hoped for two years, and there's still absolutely no hope of any of our prayers being answered. We feel like fools for wasting that time hoping for something that would never come. We don't trust EA anymore. And most of all, we're tired. So, so tired. I spend so much of my life running Sims4News. I have over 25,000 dedicated followers who are, for the most part, as frustrated as I am. Don't say that we aren't patient. Don't tell us that we aren't trying. We all want to love the game. That's why I'm sitting here right now writing this.
Stop defending yourself. Stop shutting us down. Stop trying to convince us not to be angry. We are angry for a reason. Focus on that reason. Focus on the issues with the game, not the fans. If the game is good, most of us will be happy.