Did you ever get to play TS2? Toddlers were a huge part of family play not only because they were new, but because of the level of detail and unique interactions they had. Toddlers playing with other toddlers were freaking cute, and child sims interacting with toddlers were natural and very sweet. Then you had toddlers playing with pets and toddlers interacting with their parents. You never had to leave the house and you could still have a ton of fun.
FYI: I'm not saying your argument isn't valid, but we are definitely missing out on a HUGE chunk of gameplay here that you can't replace with a few more "fun" items like the outdoor movie set. And evidently, I'm not the only one who thinks this- the 'EA Silence on Family Play' thread has reached over 1200 pages: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/801025/ea-silence-on-family-play-and-family-play-fans/p1
I've played since the original Sims, second or third EP. 1, 2 and three are sharing space in my bookcase. I loved toddlers in sims2 and was mostly frustrated with them in 3, mostly for the details you pointed out.
I remember the conservatories in Sims2 and my kids tending the plants without anyone telling them to, it was cute. If the devs give us something that can match 2 or even surpase it, maybe I'll spend more times on toddlers but I was always more of a builder. I love creatign environments and then placing Sims in it to see how they like it. I don't tend to influence them much with commands. I mostly like to watch the adults, they are more interesting to me. If I had to guess, 50% adult watching, 10% for all other life stages and the rest of the time the game is running without me supervising until I come back to check what happened.
I get it that people who don't share my priorities want other things than I.
I was curious when the word 'toddler' first entered the English language but when I typed it into Google I kept getting links to varies threads from the forum...
On a serious note though, when was there an actual definition for toddlers IRL such as babies where sometimes called 'infants' although the term infant seems to have been extended beyond being a baby as in the UK there are 'Infant Schools' which traditionally cover the ages 4-7 years old.
I was curious when the word 'toddler' first entered the English language but when I typed it into Google I kept getting links to varies threads from the forum...
On a serious note though, when was there an actual definition for toddlers IRL such as babies where sometimes called 'infants' although the term infant seems to have been extended beyond being a baby as in the UK there are 'Infant Schools' which traditionally cover the ages 4-7 years old.
toddle (v.) Look up toddle at Dictionary.com
"to run or walk with short, unsteady steps," c. 1600, Scottish and northern British, of uncertain origin, possibly related to totter (1530s); an earlier sense of "to toy, play" is found c. 1500. Related: Toddled; toddling.
toddler (n.) Look up toddler at Dictionary.com
1793, agent noun from toddle. Toddlekins is from 1839.
@MorriSan I agree with your idea of family play ... as a matter of fact, I have lots of family play in game without toddlers, and my feeling about it is that it's much more family play with children, because, speaking from experiance, the toddler stage (in real life and in game) is more of a chore, a duty as a parent, a goal oriented life stage with a being that doesn't have much personality yet and is all about development. Babies and toddlers don't add anything special to the family play in this game beside being present and have parents taking care of them 24/7, whereas children are much more indipendent and you can express more of your creativity through them.
Personally, I do want toddlers to be in the game. Not much because it's the most important life stage - I don't believe it is, like, at all -, but because it is a life stage, a very big age gap that's currently missing in the game. If my young adult sim would jump from young adult to elder, I would be pretty mad about it, since it breaks immersion.
This is basically why I'm still waiting for toddlers. I want a life simulation game to cover life and its most crucial stages, even if I'm not going to love all of them at the same way.
Will toddlers change my family play? Nope. At all. But it will make immersion much much better and give those who want to play with the earliest life stages more fun.
What she said. I'd like to see toddlers back in game (especially if they're more like Sims 2 toddlers that could make messes and get into mischief) but I've had plenty of family play without toddlers. I'd be more interested in freeing the babies from the bassinet so we could have strollers to take them to the park or a neighborhood stroll, or even just take them downstairs and hold them in the lap while watching TV.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
evidently, I'm not the only one who thinks this - the 'EA Silence on Family Play' thread has reached over 1200 pages.
True, but I have also seen something evident:
That sort of blows it out of the water, doesn't it?
Judging from what I have seen, there are a lot more people interested in a form of Create-A-World than toddlers. I'm not saying toddlers should never be implemented into the game, but it is obvious how much of an interest there is, and then there is how much you're trying to make it to be. Now, I'm also not saying your feelings don't matter, but I think saying...
we are definitely missing out on a HUGE chunk of gameplay here that you can't replace with a few more "fun" items like the outdoor movie set.
Saying "we" I'm assuming you mean the other people who strongly feel like toddlers are the ONLY priority? I know toddlers are a life stage and have value, but it is not a HUGE chunk of gameplay, because everyone plays the game differently.
And FYI: The amount of pages a thread has does not determine the priority of something over the other. I can guarantee most of those pages are debates.
I’m not replying to anyone in my post, I’m just making a general statement of how I feel and think on this subject.
I’ve read posts on this forum that Racheal Franklin says this game isn’t a life simulation game. But if you look at the TS4 official site this game is advertised as a life simulation. Toddlers are part of life, this stage in life is when a person begins to grow and learn and develops what kind of person they will be when they grow up.
We have had toddlers in the last two games so there isn’t anything wrong with people expecting them to be here for this game. It’s unfortunate that people who do want toddlers have to justify why to everyone who doesn’t.
The Sims has always had lots of options to accommodate many different playstyles. And there are many people that have more than one play style. Example if I am playing a rotational world I have several different types of households to add to the diversity. Some of these households have growing families and some don’t.
For people that don’t want toddlers it’s unfair for you to wish that they never come for those that do. Why? Because you are enjoying the game as is and wishing other people won’t have that opportunity. Because possibly you would have to age them up to avoid them? Seems like a small price to pay for your fellow simmers to have them. Toddlers should be a given, they are a life stage not optional content. However I wouldn't mind the toggles people are asking for I wouldn't mind instant age up without punishment for those that use it.
Yes there are many ways to play families, toddlers are not required for some types of family play. I have read where some people are offended when the term “family play” is linked to having toddlers. Didn't this term come about around the time that the TS2 trailer was introduced, how I love that trailer. I feel when people are referring to family play they are referring to a cradle to grave experience.
Unfortunately for me this type of family play is not in this version of The Sims. I believe people want that connection that type of family play to be available. Family play for me, for my households that I am playing this way is all about parenting. And for this version there is very little parenting going on in the game. The baby being an object that ages into a school age child that is way too independent. I want my sim parents to actually raise their sim kids, teaching them, scolding them, telling them what to do. I want those sim kids to have different behaviors in how they respond to their parents raising them. There should be consequences for bad behavior, and praise for good behavior. The Sim parents and grandparents should have more control of the families they are raising.
As an aside, the toddler petition thread title hasn't been updated, the OP ends at 104 signatures, and it looks like it was last updated in early January, there's been many more "signatures" since. The CAW petition was also made about a year before the toddler one.
(Just a point, not trying to pitch for a side or anything)
OP you are right, toddlers are not the only variable included in family play, and their exclusion is not the only thing hindering my ability to play families in an acceptable way.
Babies are essentially objects with very limited functionality. Socialize, feed, change. There is no holding your baby it has to stay in it's bassinet for the duration of the age.
Toddlers are not a thing in Sims 4. So your tiny little infant, which has seen nothing more than the ceiling of whatever room it's crib is in, transforms into a fully developed child that already knows how to talk, use the bathroom and walk. That's a big problem for me, as I cannot stand the age jump.
Teens, YA, Adults and elders are literally the same. There are minor differences, but the models are the same. The clothing items are the same, the interactions are the same, and their wants are all the same. Some people don't mind, but I think it's an obvious shortcut that was taken. Not one that I am particularly fond of.
Why even have anything beyond the YA stage when they are all essentially the same thing. Teens and adults are nearly indistinguishable (which is why they added an age tag).
Sure there are some interactions that work terrific for families, but for a game that offers generational gameplay I think they did a terrible job diversifying their older age groups and providing content that is family oriented. No doubt they will add more interactions, but the basic set the game came with is very disappointing and has really not improved.
evidently, I'm not the only one who thinks this - the 'EA Silence on Family Play' thread has reached over 1200 pages.
True, but I have also seen something evident:
That sort of blows it out of the water, doesn't it?
Judging from what I have seen, there are a lot more people interested in a form of Create-A-World than toddlers. I'm not saying toddlers should never be implemented into the game, but it is obvious how much of an interest there is, and then there is how much you're trying to make it to be. Now, I'm also not saying your feelings don't matter, but I think saying...
we are definitely missing out on a HUGE chunk of gameplay here that you can't replace with a few more "fun" items like the outdoor movie set.
Saying "we" I'm assuming you mean the other people who strongly feel like toddlers are the ONLY priority? I know toddlers are a life stage and have value, but it is not a HUGE chunk of gameplay, because everyone plays the game differently.
And FYI: The amount of pages a thread has does not determine the priority of something over the other. I can guarantee most of those pages are debates.
That matches my perception as well but I have to add that I really don't trust such surveys. Without knowing what is really in the next Stuff pack which is said to be about kids, I doubt that it has the size to include toddlers. What it has is, I think, the potential to show how much interest and money is really behind the kid fans. If it is selling like mad it might tell EA that expanding on the theme will make them more money and they'll make a toddler addon or patch a priority. The reverse is true too.
I never felt like ts3 didn't have much family play until generations and even then I didn't feel like it had much since it seemed like most things where separated by age. I feel like I have more family play in ts4 even with the lack of toddlers. The reason I feel this way is because kids and teens aren't restricted as much as they were back then. I mean kids can use hot tubs now and use the fossball table. Though those aren't what most people think of when they think family it can be used in family play. A family that like to spend their days challenging each other to a game of foosball or wind down from a busy day by relaxing in the hot tub. And with each pack they have been expanding on it, though maybe not obvious. Cool kitchen; eat ice cream as a family, Movie hangout; have a family movie night, Romantic garden; play in the fountain at the local park, spa day; relax in the family sauna, dine out; enjoy a nice dinner at your local mom & pop eatery.
I think this "ts4=young adult party simulator" is just because what they have been releasing is just more obvious to use on adults but really most of it can be used with any age.
I do want to see toddlers return and I hope when they do they make them compatible with most of the items that have been released in the already released packs. Imagine your little toddler playing in the fountain or watching a movie with the rest of their family.
I also hope that preteen finally make an introduction to the series because just as @Maylee2 has pointed out that toddlers are an important stage in human development so are preteens. When kids hit what not really a kid but not yet a teen stage of life it's also when they start evaluating where they fit in the world and how the world around them fits with them. Most kids at those stage of life haven't or are just barely starting puberty. I'd say they teens we have now are in the late part of adolescence where puperty has hit and they have devolved a pretty good sense of who they are but still haven't a clue how the world works or how it can affect them. So we really need this early adolescence stage in game.
Word! I agree with you on all points.
The way they presented the new content in form of the-party-that-shall-not-be-named wasn't helpful either.
I would totally love if they included early teens, age 10-15 something like that, in the game. I believe that this is one of the most formative ages.
It would add a lot of possible interactions to the game. They can do a lot on their own or accompanied and are not as involved in adult life yet. Some sort of summer camp in Granite Falls, temper tantrums, moody sulcks, being told of for not tidying up their rooms, dragging home hurt pets, scrapped knees, mooning over their first crush and annoying everyone with talk about some teeny show on TV. First little romance? Lots.
And we could have them interact in most expansions with the new content, something a toddler can't.
Toddlers are very selfcontained content. They won't influence the gameplay (note that I don't say the parent sims!).
Toddlerproving your appartment is the same on good old earth than in a space station. They won't explore the station outside their caretaker's arms, much to dangerous and not interact with new content.
Raising a toddler is the same no matter the weather apart from rainproving your strolley. Kids play outside, Teenagers too. Toddlers won't do much more than grasping at the snow, crawling through it or smashing their fists in a puddle of water, and those are things I want to see!
Pets and toddlers? Not much possible interaction apart from pulled tails.
Toddlers and supernaturals? Not much difference.
Toddlers and dystopia? I don't think I have to say much about that, hm?
Toddlers and vacations? Learn to swim is the only difference I see and that can be done at home at the pool.
Toddlers at university? Ok, Young mothers and fathers are a fact of life but apart from stress to find and finance a babysitter...
Toddlers and magic? Too young!
For those who want them, I hope that they will add toddlers in a patch. They aren't enticing enough for me to pay for them.
Pre-teens would be something new, and could definitely add to the family experience. I see them as sort of being a cross between teens and children -- they could still play with children's toys and the play equipment, but they'd get embarrassed if one of their peers catches them doing so, that sort of thing.
I think when they decided to make young adult an actual life stage (rather than just limit it to University as they did in Sims 2) is where things started to go a bit off-kilter. There's more need for pre-teens and teens (especially in Sims 4 where teens wear the exact same clothes as adults, or vice versa) than there is for two different adult life stages, at least until they have a bit more clear delineation between the two. The recent patch where adult Sims develop a few more lines and wrinkles helps a bit; I used to use CASt in Sims 3 to add some streaks of white/grey hair to dark-haired Sims when they aged into Adult. But more could be done -- maybe make it harder for Sims to conceive when they hit Adult (more Try for Baby fails), or make adult Sims more likely to get fatigued when working out.
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For people that don’t want toddlers it’s unfair for you to wish that they never come for those that do. Why? Because you are enjoying the game as is and wishing other people won’t have that opportunity.
Where have you seen someone say that in this thread? Why do you jump to the assumption that there are people here who are enjoying not having toddlers but want people who do want toddlers to suffer and not play the game?
For people that don’t want toddlers it’s unfair for you to wish that they never come for those that do. Why? Because you are enjoying the game as is and wishing other people won’t have that opportunity.
Where have you seen someone say that in this post?? What?? Why do you jump to the assumption that there are people here who are enjoying not having toddlers but want people who do want toddlers to suffer and not play the game?
I didn't say suffer. And yep I've seen this posted in several toddler threads.
evidently, I'm not the only one who thinks this - the 'EA Silence on Family Play' thread has reached over 1200 pages.
True, but I have also seen something evident:
That sort of blows it out of the water, doesn't it?
Judging from what I have seen, there are a lot more people interested in a form of Create-A-World than toddlers. I'm not saying toddlers should never be implemented into the game, but it is obvious how much of an interest there is, and then there is how much you're trying to make it to be. Now, I'm also not saying your feelings don't matter, but I think saying...
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
evidently, I'm not the only one who thinks this - the 'EA Silence on Family Play' thread has reached over 1200 pages.
True, but I have also seen something evident:
That sort of blows it out of the water, doesn't it?
Judging from what I have seen, there are a lot more people interested in a form of Create-A-World than toddlers. I'm not saying toddlers should never be implemented into the game, but it is obvious how much of an interest there is, and then there is how much you're trying to make it to be. Now, I'm also not saying your feelings don't matter, but I think saying...
we are definitely missing out on a HUGE chunk of gameplay here that you can't replace with a few more "fun" items like the outdoor movie set.
Saying "we" I'm assuming you mean the other people who strongly feel like toddlers are the ONLY priority? I know toddlers are a life stage and have value, but it is not a HUGE chunk of gameplay, because everyone plays the game differently.
And FYI: The amount of pages a thread has does not determine the priority of something over the other. I can guarantee most of those pages are debates.
Not to mention that thread is also essentially a twitter/chat room place, with several posts talking about the weather in various locations and having nothing to do with the game on the latest page (1242), members' personal lives instead of the game on the page before (along with more weather), and so on. A few pages before that nearly all the posts were about a member of the forum. If the posts not related to the game and thread topic weren't counted, I have a feeling the page count would be much smaller than it is.
There's also the fact that a large portion of the posts there are made by the same select few people anyway, so it's not like 1200 different individuals are there either.
Pre-teens would be something new, and could definitely add to the family experience. I see them as sort of being a cross between teens and children -- they could still play with children's toys and the play equipment, but they'd get embarrassed if one of their peers catches them doing so, that sort of thing.
I think when they decided to make young adult an actual life stage (rather than just limit it to University as they did in Sims 2) is where things started to go a bit off-kilter. There's more need for pre-teens and teens (especially in Sims 4 where teens wear the exact same clothes as adults, or vice versa) than there is for two different adult life stages, at least until they have a bit more clear delineation between the two. The recent patch where adult Sims develop a few more lines and wrinkles helps a bit; I used to use CASt in Sims 3 to add some streaks of white/grey hair to dark-haired Sims when they aged into Adult. But more could be done -- maybe make it harder for Sims to conceive when they hit Adult (more Try for Baby fails), or make adult Sims more likely to get fatigued when working out.
I agree. I would, for example, like to have a middle age for adults. 40-60, something like that. I would love to see how Sims deal with midlife crisis, the first grey hair and approaching retirement. But mainly I want them to have golden years without looking like they are about to keel over (with a smooth face).
I don't mind the baby-kid gap so much because I tend to play with adult sims fresh out the CAS. They don't even have the earlier stages and I don't care. But I follow them from adult to grave.
evidently, I'm not the only one who thinks this - the 'EA Silence on Family Play' thread has reached over 1200 pages.
True, but I have also seen something evident:
That sort of blows it out of the water, doesn't it?
Judging from what I have seen, there are a lot more people interested in a form of Create-A-World than toddlers. I'm not saying toddlers should never be implemented into the game, but it is obvious how much of an interest there is, and then there is how much you're trying to make it to be. Now, I'm also not saying your feelings don't matter, but I think saying...
we are definitely missing out on a HUGE chunk of gameplay here that you can't replace with a few more "fun" items like the outdoor movie set.
Saying "we" I'm assuming you mean the other people who strongly feel like toddlers are the ONLY priority? I know toddlers are a life stage and have value, but it is not a HUGE chunk of gameplay, because everyone plays the game differently.
And FYI: The amount of pages a thread has does not determine the priority of something over the other. I can guarantee most of those pages are debates.
There was a petition before the game launched with over 25 thousand signatures calling for pools and toddlers to be added to the game free of charge. I signed it, and Maxis knew very well of it's existence. I'm not going to sign another petition, when the first resulted in nothing. I figure a lot of players feel similarly.
As a consumer you only have so many options getting your voice, and concerns heard. The fact we're approaching 2 years this month since said petition was created tells me that Maxis has been, and continues to ignore the players who want toddlers. If they took the petition seriously, we would have toddlers in game now.
It's all a matter or priority, and what Maxis is prioritizing might be great for you, but other players matter too. You seem to be offended that others feel Maxis should prioritize toddlers, but are others not supposed to feel the same when you say they should not? At the end of the day complaining about others wanting content you don't want is a waste of time. Maxis has a vision, and how accurately that vision fits the way you play, I play, and everybody plays is still up in the air. We don't know their vision, they haven't specified other than Rachel Franklin saying the community doesn't get it.
Toddlers made the game more REALISTIC to the family play.
An infant growing straight to a child?
Unreasonable, considering the gameplay we had with toddlers for Sims 2 and 3.
I still play The Sims 3.
I would like to play The Sims 4.
But I can't. I haven't even bought the expansion packs. Only the original Sims 4, just to give it a try.
I don't know WHEN Maxis/EA will FINALLY give us an answer on the toddler thing - but this is borderline disrespectful to the fans. Who have supported them for YEARS. Just be UP FRONT about it, already.
For people that don’t want toddlers it’s unfair for you to wish that they never come for those that do. Why? Because you are enjoying the game as is and wishing other people won’t have that opportunity.
Where have you seen someone say that in this post?? What?? Why do you jump to the assumption that there are people here who are enjoying not having toddlers but want people who do want toddlers to suffer and not play the game?
I didn't say suffer. And yep I've seen this posted in several toddler threads.
I, too, have managed to play families without toddlers. However, the lack of them makes a difference in my game, to be sure. EA dumbed them down in Sims3, sorry to say, which is why, I think, some people hated that life stage, or simply aged them to child immediately. It did become tedious after a time. But I played on Epic and adjusted the length of each life stage to my own liking. Enough time to train the toddlers without it getting too boring. What we needed was for the toddlers to be more like toddlers, not less. They should 'get into trouble' like they could in Sims2. They should be able to climb onto the furniture, crawl up and down the stairs and then navigate them after they can walk. I know it's a lot of coding, so we'll likely never see it in the game.
But, just like the latest patch, where the player has the option, (THANK YOU EA for that), perhaps those who don't wish to play toddlers can either age them up quickly, as was done in the past, or toggle a switch to keep things as they are now. I'm all about choice in this.
Having toddlers, also makes it easier, in my opinion, to space the children in the family. I like about 1-3 years (Sim days) tops between my children. It's all guess work in Sims4, unless you make the whole family in CAS and then age them up with the cake, individually.
But, I do appreciate your argument, OP. When I was struggling to have children, for years, it was a slap in my face whenever we played Mattel's Game of Life. I couldn't even have children in a board game. Nor was I ever able to adopt. That space kept eluding me. It was very painful.
I have to say I held my breath with this latest patch, fearing my world would become overrun with a lifestyle I can't appreciate. I thought my days of playing this game were over. I'm very glad EA played it cool. We have control and that's a very good thing.
Perhaps when toddlers are returned, EA will be equally cool in their handling of it.
I'm very sorry that you experienced such hardship.
I fully agree with your opinion about how toddlers should be implemented, as a choice. I too thought that Sims3 really didn't do the lifestage any favours, it was indeed very tedious. It would have been amusing to watch them get into trouble or climbing the furniture, oh yes. Instead- I tried it a few times and it was like deciding between a rock and a hard place when it came to them learnign to walk, for example. You either had the issue of the adults carrying and leavng the kids at random places or the kids getting underfood. I really hope that a) they are optional to toggle like werewolves, and b) better thought out.
One of the prevailing themes in the ideas at a glance toddler thread is to be able to play 'as' the toddler rather than just having them needing to be interacted with by care givers. I think that's a way to make them far better than ever and clearly a lot of other playerd think so too.
Excellent idea! Kind of like being able to play as the pet in Sims3. I would love to direct the toddler to get into some kind of mischief. LOL That would make them a more viable and fun life stage, too.
To be fair there has been toddler petitions off this website that have as many as 25k signatures. At the end of the day I don't care which has more signatures. Toddlers can be a huge chunk of game play to some as create a world is a huge chunk to others. That's not up for anyone else to decide besides the individual themselves.
Hell I have a secret obsession with Sim gardening, and if it was left out I would be pretty upset but it would not be fair for others to say it isn't a big deal and to get over it. (paraphrasing here) So I absolutely understand how toddlers can be important to players enjoyment as gardening plays a pretty huge part in my enjoyment of the sims game.
That includes pools into the petition as well, which I can imagine a lot of users signing only for that, however that is quite remarkable.
Still, what have EA & Maxis done? They updated pools into the base-game but that was that.
They could be working on toddlers, but like I have stated several times it does not seem to be their priority, and are focusing more on children instead of a whole new life stage.
For people that don’t want toddlers it’s unfair for you to wish that they never come for those that do. Why? Because you are enjoying the game as is and wishing other people won’t have that opportunity.
Where have you seen someone say that in this post?? What?? Why do you jump to the assumption that there are people here who are enjoying not having toddlers but want people who do want toddlers to suffer and not play the game?
I didn't say suffer. And yep I've seen this posted in several toddler threads.
In several, but what about this one?
If you read my entire post you will see that the first line states " I’m not replying to anyone in my post, I’m just making a general statement of how I feel and think on this subject".
Comments
I've played since the original Sims, second or third EP. 1, 2 and three are sharing space in my bookcase. I loved toddlers in sims2 and was mostly frustrated with them in 3, mostly for the details you pointed out.
I remember the conservatories in Sims2 and my kids tending the plants without anyone telling them to, it was cute. If the devs give us something that can match 2 or even surpase it, maybe I'll spend more times on toddlers but I was always more of a builder. I love creatign environments and then placing Sims in it to see how they like it. I don't tend to influence them much with commands. I mostly like to watch the adults, they are more interesting to me. If I had to guess, 50% adult watching, 10% for all other life stages and the rest of the time the game is running without me supervising until I come back to check what happened.
I get it that people who don't share my priorities want other things than I.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
On a serious note though, when was there an actual definition for toddlers IRL such as babies where sometimes called 'infants' although the term infant seems to have been extended beyond being a baby as in the UK there are 'Infant Schools' which traditionally cover the ages 4-7 years old.
In german the equivalent of toddler is Kleinkind. Small child. I searched for toddle in my ethymology books, then tried an online version to verify: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=toddle
toddle (v.) Look up toddle at Dictionary.com
"to run or walk with short, unsteady steps," c. 1600, Scottish and northern British, of uncertain origin, possibly related to totter (1530s); an earlier sense of "to toy, play" is found c. 1500. Related: Toddled; toddling.
toddler (n.) Look up toddler at Dictionary.com
1793, agent noun from toddle. Toddlekins is from 1839.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
What she said.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Tired of babies just having enormous growth spurts into fully grown kids.
True, but I have also seen something evident:
That sort of blows it out of the water, doesn't it?
Judging from what I have seen, there are a lot more people interested in a form of Create-A-World than toddlers. I'm not saying toddlers should never be implemented into the game, but it is obvious how much of an interest there is, and then there is how much you're trying to make it to be. Now, I'm also not saying your feelings don't matter, but I think saying...
Saying "we" I'm assuming you mean the other people who strongly feel like toddlers are the ONLY priority? I know toddlers are a life stage and have value, but it is not a HUGE chunk of gameplay, because everyone plays the game differently.
And FYI: The amount of pages a thread has does not determine the priority of something over the other. I can guarantee most of those pages are debates.
I’ve read posts on this forum that Racheal Franklin says this game isn’t a life simulation game. But if you look at the TS4 official site this game is advertised as a life simulation. Toddlers are part of life, this stage in life is when a person begins to grow and learn and develops what kind of person they will be when they grow up.
We have had toddlers in the last two games so there isn’t anything wrong with people expecting them to be here for this game. It’s unfortunate that people who do want toddlers have to justify why to everyone who doesn’t.
The Sims has always had lots of options to accommodate many different playstyles. And there are many people that have more than one play style. Example if I am playing a rotational world I have several different types of households to add to the diversity. Some of these households have growing families and some don’t.
For people that don’t want toddlers it’s unfair for you to wish that they never come for those that do. Why? Because you are enjoying the game as is and wishing other people won’t have that opportunity. Because possibly you would have to age them up to avoid them? Seems like a small price to pay for your fellow simmers to have them. Toddlers should be a given, they are a life stage not optional content. However I wouldn't mind the toggles people are asking for I wouldn't mind instant age up without punishment for those that use it.
Yes there are many ways to play families, toddlers are not required for some types of family play. I have read where some people are offended when the term “family play” is linked to having toddlers. Didn't this term come about around the time that the TS2 trailer was introduced, how I love that trailer. I feel when people are referring to family play they are referring to a cradle to grave experience.
Unfortunately for me this type of family play is not in this version of The Sims. I believe people want that connection that type of family play to be available. Family play for me, for my households that I am playing this way is all about parenting. And for this version there is very little parenting going on in the game. The baby being an object that ages into a school age child that is way too independent. I want my sim parents to actually raise their sim kids, teaching them, scolding them, telling them what to do. I want those sim kids to have different behaviors in how they respond to their parents raising them. There should be consequences for bad behavior, and praise for good behavior. The Sim parents and grandparents should have more control of the families they are raising.
(Just a point, not trying to pitch for a side or anything)
Babies are essentially objects with very limited functionality. Socialize, feed, change. There is no holding your baby it has to stay in it's bassinet for the duration of the age.
Toddlers are not a thing in Sims 4. So your tiny little infant, which has seen nothing more than the ceiling of whatever room it's crib is in, transforms into a fully developed child that already knows how to talk, use the bathroom and walk. That's a big problem for me, as I cannot stand the age jump.
Teens, YA, Adults and elders are literally the same. There are minor differences, but the models are the same. The clothing items are the same, the interactions are the same, and their wants are all the same. Some people don't mind, but I think it's an obvious shortcut that was taken. Not one that I am particularly fond of.
Why even have anything beyond the YA stage when they are all essentially the same thing. Teens and adults are nearly indistinguishable (which is why they added an age tag).
Sure there are some interactions that work terrific for families, but for a game that offers generational gameplay I think they did a terrible job diversifying their older age groups and providing content that is family oriented. No doubt they will add more interactions, but the basic set the game came with is very disappointing and has really not improved.
That matches my perception as well but I have to add that I really don't trust such surveys. Without knowing what is really in the next Stuff pack which is said to be about kids, I doubt that it has the size to include toddlers. What it has is, I think, the potential to show how much interest and money is really behind the kid fans. If it is selling like mad it might tell EA that expanding on the theme will make them more money and they'll make a toddler addon or patch a priority. The reverse is true too.
People vote with their valets.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
Pre-teens would be something new, and could definitely add to the family experience. I see them as sort of being a cross between teens and children -- they could still play with children's toys and the play equipment, but they'd get embarrassed if one of their peers catches them doing so, that sort of thing.
I think when they decided to make young adult an actual life stage (rather than just limit it to University as they did in Sims 2) is where things started to go a bit off-kilter. There's more need for pre-teens and teens (especially in Sims 4 where teens wear the exact same clothes as adults, or vice versa) than there is for two different adult life stages, at least until they have a bit more clear delineation between the two. The recent patch where adult Sims develop a few more lines and wrinkles helps a bit; I used to use CASt in Sims 3 to add some streaks of white/grey hair to dark-haired Sims when they aged into Adult. But more could be done -- maybe make it harder for Sims to conceive when they hit Adult (more Try for Baby fails), or make adult Sims more likely to get fatigued when working out.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Where have you seen someone say that in this thread? Why do you jump to the assumption that there are people here who are enjoying not having toddlers but want people who do want toddlers to suffer and not play the game?
I didn't say suffer. And yep I've seen this posted in several toddler threads.
There was an early off-site petitions - summer-fall 2014 - with more like thousands of signatures.
https://www.change.org/p/the-sims-team-include-toddlers-and-pools-in-the-sims-4-base-game
Not to mention that thread is also essentially a twitter/chat room place, with several posts talking about the weather in various locations and having nothing to do with the game on the latest page (1242), members' personal lives instead of the game on the page before (along with more weather), and so on. A few pages before that nearly all the posts were about a member of the forum. If the posts not related to the game and thread topic weren't counted, I have a feeling the page count would be much smaller than it is.
There's also the fact that a large portion of the posts there are made by the same select few people anyway, so it's not like 1200 different individuals are there either.
I agree. I would, for example, like to have a middle age for adults. 40-60, something like that. I would love to see how Sims deal with midlife crisis, the first grey hair and approaching retirement. But mainly I want them to have golden years without looking like they are about to keel over (with a smooth face).
I don't mind the baby-kid gap so much because I tend to play with adult sims fresh out the CAS. They don't even have the earlier stages and I don't care. But I follow them from adult to grave.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
There was a petition before the game launched with over 25 thousand signatures calling for pools and toddlers to be added to the game free of charge. I signed it, and Maxis knew very well of it's existence. I'm not going to sign another petition, when the first resulted in nothing. I figure a lot of players feel similarly.
As a consumer you only have so many options getting your voice, and concerns heard. The fact we're approaching 2 years this month since said petition was created tells me that Maxis has been, and continues to ignore the players who want toddlers. If they took the petition seriously, we would have toddlers in game now.
It's all a matter or priority, and what Maxis is prioritizing might be great for you, but other players matter too. You seem to be offended that others feel Maxis should prioritize toddlers, but are others not supposed to feel the same when you say they should not? At the end of the day complaining about others wanting content you don't want is a waste of time. Maxis has a vision, and how accurately that vision fits the way you play, I play, and everybody plays is still up in the air. We don't know their vision, they haven't specified other than Rachel Franklin saying the community doesn't get it.
An infant growing straight to a child?
Unreasonable, considering the gameplay we had with toddlers for Sims 2 and 3.
I still play The Sims 3.
I would like to play The Sims 4.
But I can't. I haven't even bought the expansion packs. Only the original Sims 4, just to give it a try.
I don't know WHEN Maxis/EA will FINALLY give us an answer on the toddler thing - but this is borderline disrespectful to the fans. Who have supported them for YEARS. Just be UP FRONT about it, already.
In several, but what about this one?
Excellent idea! Kind of like being able to play as the pet in Sims3. I would love to direct the toddler to get into some kind of mischief. LOL That would make them a more viable and fun life stage, too.
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To be fair there has been toddler petitions off this website that have as many as 25k signatures. At the end of the day I don't care which has more signatures. Toddlers can be a huge chunk of game play to some as create a world is a huge chunk to others. That's not up for anyone else to decide besides the individual themselves.
Hell I have a secret obsession with Sim gardening, and if it was left out I would be pretty upset but it would not be fair for others to say it isn't a big deal and to get over it. (paraphrasing here) So I absolutely understand how toddlers can be important to players enjoyment as gardening plays a pretty huge part in my enjoyment of the sims game.
That includes pools into the petition as well, which I can imagine a lot of users signing only for that, however that is quite remarkable.
Still, what have EA & Maxis done? They updated pools into the base-game but that was that.
They could be working on toddlers, but like I have stated several times it does not seem to be their priority, and are focusing more on children instead of a whole new life stage.
If you read my entire post you will see that the first line states " I’m not replying to anyone in my post, I’m just making a general statement of how I feel and think on this subject".
What were they thinking?