@Arletta you know I said nowhere in my post that it was wrong for the OP to have their opinion-I said there was nothing wrong with mine. I said I am sick of people having to worry about having to validate their own versions of any type of play style. They don't. It is no one else's business how they play and what makes them happy is just that-what makes them happy.
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
@Arletta you know I said nowhere in my post that it was wrong for the OP to have their opinion-I said there was nothing wrong with mine. I said I am sick of people having to worry about having to validate their own versions of any type of play style. They don't. It is no one else's business how they play and what makes them happy is just that-what makes them happy.
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
Please try reading comprehension. Where did I say ALL toddler fans? Nowhere. I put a qualifier in my definition (toddler fans who use toddlers as the be all and end all of family playto the exclusion of everything else) and even took pains to make clear that I feel with players who want them.
Your defensive reaction only strenghtens my point.
I am in the camp where I would be happy if toddlers came back, but if they didn't it wouldn't break my heart. I agree that toddlers are instrumental to family play, especially if you are a generational player and love to enjoy every single life stage. But for me family play isn't just about toddlers. For example, I love the children in TS4 as there's load of skills for them to learn, whereas in TS3 they were so boring. I will give you that teens are a bit boring in TS4 and they drastically need improvements. What we are really lacking are more family orientated interactions. I'm not saying that these are absent in TS4 because I am more family orientated in this game than any of the others and I enjoy all the interactions we currently have, but we could definitely do with more. It's so much easier to retain relationships in TS4 than any of the other games I find because all the sims are really social. I have my fingers and toes crossed that the next EP will be family orientated.
Just because someone says the game is shallow, doesn't mean they think you are shallow for liking it. I would personally say that I'm an educated person, but I do enjoy some Trash TV from time to time.
Also, of course there are families without toddlers, but you won't find a family where the kids skipped the toddler stage and magically learnt to walk and stuff.
@MorriSan I agree with you mostly. I do want toddlers, but family play is still lacking even if we get toddlers. I want my young lovers and life partners to be able to spend the quiet times together too, not just the noisy club scene or the on-the-job stuff. I'd love the option to have my life partnered sims walk hand in hand or paint a nursery together, or cuddle up on the sofa and watch a movie instead of chair hopping and ignoring it.
I'd like to see my sims teach their children to walk and talk, drive, love, be loved tell stories and give advice, maybe I ask for too much... Maybe a family picnic with all the generations young and old actually interacting like family instead of strangers who have similar faces.
I'd like my elders to be able to relate to their family's generations instead of just retire and wait to die. Knit a blanket, rock in a rocking chair on the porch, show off family pictures to their bridge club.. Anything.
I don't think the sims is only about parties. I did at one point but not anymore. I just don't think there's really ANY type of family interaction and simply adding toddlers isn't going to fix it.
Loving yourself is the most simple and complicated thing you can do for you.
@Arletta you know I said nowhere in my post that it was wrong for the OP to have their opinion-I said there was nothing wrong with mine. I said I am sick of people having to worry about having to validate their own versions of any type of play style. They don't. It is no one else's business how they play and what makes them happy is just that-what makes them happy.
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
Please try reading comprehension. Where did I say ALL toddler fans? Nowhere. I put a qualifier in my definition (toddler fans who use toddlers as the be all and end all of family playto the exclusion of everything else) and even took pains to make clear that I feel with players who want them.
Your defensive reaction only strenghtens my point.
Edit for typo and highlighting.
To make it clear, I don’t think that people are deliberately insulting but sometimes they don’t know how they come across....
You don't mean it in a insulting way, but `there’s no family play because there are no toddlers’ mirrors exactly the sort of situation I've described above. Before you get angry, that is not what I think toddler fans want to express whenever they insist that the next thing please, please, please has to be toddlers, they just want to play the way that is most entertaining to them.
I have perfectly good reading comprehension thank you very much. Perhaps we could leave out the personal comments? Thank you.
Now like you say in your initial post perhaps you don't mean this thread to come across in the way it does in the same way you think maybe toddler fans don't mean to be deliberately insulting?
The fact is I don't think toddlers are *it* for family play as your response attempts to indicate. But they are integral to the whole experience for me-same as if babies/kids/teens/adults/elders are-because they represent whole years of each sims life. You see I enjoy my sims lives from cradle to grave.
You are taking someone else's subjective experiences and then deciding they mean to be personally insulting to your subjective experience. You are judging that-you don't know if they mean anything to anyone else's experiences.
If you want to enjoy your subjective experiences without people interfering there comes the responsibility to allow others their experiences and their opinions too.
Like I said in my pervious post-it's noone business for anyone to tell you your subjectI've experience is wrong-the same as it would be wrong for you to do the same to others. It cuts both ways you see-it has zero to do with toddlers and everything to do with people being able to enjoy the sims any way you see fit as a player. There is never a 'wrong' way to play the sims so it follows that there is no 'wrong' way to feel about certain features.
Perhaps you needed me to clarify. But my point is this-you are absolutely entitled to your subjective sims experience and I will support that always. What I don't support from anyone is telling other people that their subjective experience is wrong. Part of that falls under that toddlers make a game for some people. Same as from what you've written I see you enjoy building-so I would never support someone telling you a game without it is sufficient for you.
You are the one making the judgement if whether it's a personal comment on your experience when someone says 'no family play without toddlers'. That may well be their subjectove experience and that's totally allowed. It's only ever an issue if they then come out and tell you that how you are playing is wrong. Then I'd say that's wrong too.
It just makes me very uncomfortable to watch a thread where the theme is that you want your subjective experience but if someone else's doesn't fit yours then that is 'wrong'. I.e it being wrong that toddlers make someone else's sims family play complete. It may well do and it's not up to anyone else to tell them that's not right.
*oh and it's nothing to do with real life*. I don't have kids and I don't support anyone telling others how to live anyway. Live and let live.
@Arletta you know I said nowhere in my post that it was wrong for the OP to have their opinion-I said there was nothing wrong with mine. I said I am sick of people having to worry about having to validate their own versions of any type of play style. They don't. It is no one else's business how they play and what makes them happy is just that-what makes them happy.
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
Please try reading comprehension. Where did I say ALL toddler fans? Nowhere. I put a qualifier in my definition (toddler fans who use toddlers as the be all and end all of family playto the exclusion of everything else) and even took pains to make clear that I feel with players who want them.
Your defensive reaction only strenghtens my point.
Edit for typo and highlighting.
and for the sake of others I hope you get your toddlers so you can have a choice too, to play them or not to play them, but at the moment I'm more sympathetic to players who want pets or seasons
I think that it does come off as if you are categorizing Simmers who want toddlers when you say things like
I'm more sympathetic to players who want pets or seasons
I'm not saying thats what you mean but it does come off like that.
I want toddlders and I also want seasons pets, but I feel that Sims should come first since it is about them. I'm sympathetic for anyone who feels their game isn't complete. What makes it harder for all of us is the fact that EA won't share any info. A lot drama wouldn't even be in these forums if EA just be honest with us.
I don't see many toddler threads anymore since they have the pinned thread. I do see people annoyed or upset about people wanting toddlers type threads more so.
PLEASE FIX TEENS IN TS4! I NEED YOUNGER TEENS NOT YA TEENS! (^_^)Please add Music Bands with lead singers! Please add vehicles and garages! Vehicles have always been part of The Sims.
When I play with my sim family I want to see realistic growth. Sims 4 does not provide that. I've moved on and enjoying what I have in the game and I'm pretty glad sims 4 exist.
@Arletta you know I said nowhere in my post that it was wrong for the OP to have their opinion-I said there was nothing wrong with mine. I said I am sick of people having to worry about having to validate their own versions of any type of play style. They don't. It is no one else's business how they play and what makes them happy is just that-what makes them happy.
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
Please try reading comprehension. Where did I say ALL toddler fans? Nowhere. I put a qualifier in my definition (toddler fans who use toddlers as the be all and end all of family playto the exclusion of everything else) and even took pains to make clear that I feel with players who want them.
Your defensive reaction only strenghtens my point.
Edit for typo and highlighting.
To make it clear, I don’t think that people are deliberately insulting but sometimes they don’t know how they come across....
You don't mean it in a insulting way, but `there’s no family play because there are no toddlers’ mirrors exactly the sort of situation I've described above. Before you get angry, that is not what I think toddler fans want to express whenever they insist that the next thing please, please, please has to be toddlers, they just want to play the way that is most entertaining to them.
I have perfectly good reading comprehension thank you very much. Perhaps we could leave out the personal comments? Thank you.
Now like you say in your initial post perhaps you don't mean this thread to come across in the way it does in the same way you think maybe toddler fans don't mean to be deliberately insulting?
The fact is I don't think toddlers are *it* for family play as your response attempts to indicate. But they are integral to the whole experience for me-same as if babies/kids/teens/adults/elders are-because they represent whole years of each sims life. You see I enjoy my sims lives from cradle to grave.
You are taking someone else's subjective experiences and then deciding they mean to be personally insulting to your subjective experience. You are judging that-you don't know if they mean anything to anyone else's experiences.
If you want to enjoy your subjective experiences without people interfering there comes the responsibility to allow others their experiences and their opinions too.
Like I said in my pervious post-it's noone business for anyone to tell you your subjectI've experience is wrong-the same as it would be wrong for you to do the same to others. It cuts both ways you see-it has zero to do with toddlers and everything to do with people being able to enjoy the sims any way you see fit as a player. There is never a 'wrong' way to play the sims so it follows that there is no 'wrong' way to feel about certain features.
Perhaps you needed me to clarify. But my point is this-you are absolutely entitled to your subjective sims experience and I will support that always. What I don't support from anyone is telling other people that their subjective experience is wrong. Part of that falls under that toddlers make a game for some people. Same as from what you've written I see you enjoy building-so I would never support someone telling you a game without it is sufficient for you.
You are the one making the judgement if whether it's a personal comment on your experience when someone says 'no family play without toddlers'. That may well be their subjectove experience and that's totally allowed. It's only ever an issue if they then come out and tell you that how you are playing is wrong. Then I'd say that's wrong too.
It just makes me very uncomfortable to watch a thread where the theme is that you want your subjective experience but if someone else's doesn't fit yours then that is 'wrong'. I.e it being wrong that toddlers make someone else's sims family play complete. It may well do and it's not up to anyone else to tell them that's not right.
*oh and it's nothing to do with real life*. I don't have kids and I don't support anyone telling others how to live anyway. Live and let live.
Well said.
I feel the same way as @sparkfairy1 do on this subject. Don't take what people say about this game into your personal life. It isn't fair for you. I'm not married nor do I have kids (and I'm very happy). If someone says that "there is no family play without toddlers" then that is them. As long as they didn't insult you directly.
There is no need to be rude on these forums. Saying things like "Please try reading comprehension." is to me a direct insult towards Sparkfairy.
PLEASE FIX TEENS IN TS4! I NEED YOUNGER TEENS NOT YA TEENS! (^_^)Please add Music Bands with lead singers! Please add vehicles and garages! Vehicles have always been part of The Sims.
Toddles or not family stuff is still pretty lacking. Not a lot of unique or meaningful interactions between family members and not enough kids activities and a unique teen stuff.
I get more bored of the kids having one trait and the same 4 aspirations before anything else
I just think it is all subjective to how someone feels about toddlers IRL, and not necessarily in-game. Many people on here and admittedly myself forget to NOT put their own biased opinions first and "facts" later.
For example, I remember babysitting a friend's toddler and I thought I was going to lose my mind. I thought being a teacher's assistant was bad, until you're home alone with two toddlers screaming in your ear. A first impression like that sort of sticks with you.
I digress; toddlers would be a nice addition to the game even if I don't use it personally (much like how some people aren't using this recent update, for different circumstances of course). I don't think it's fair to say that toddlers are necessary for family play though, because a lot of families may not want or be able to have a child or children, and that is just how they want to have their family.
@Arletta you know I said nowhere in my post that it was wrong for the OP to have their opinion-I said there was nothing wrong with mine. I said I am sick of people having to worry about having to validate their own versions of any type of play style. They don't. It is no one else's business how they play and what makes them happy is just that-what makes them happy.
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
Please try reading comprehension. Where did I say ALL toddler fans? Nowhere. I put a qualifier in my definition (toddler fans who use toddlers as the be all and end all of family playto the exclusion of everything else) and even took pains to make clear that I feel with players who want them.
Your defensive reaction only strenghtens my point.
Edit for typo and highlighting.
To make it clear, I don’t think that people are deliberately insulting but sometimes they don’t know how they come across....
You don't mean it in a insulting way, but `there’s no family play because there are no toddlers’ mirrors exactly the sort of situation I've described above. Before you get angry, that is not what I think toddler fans want to express whenever they insist that the next thing please, please, please has to be toddlers, they just want to play the way that is most entertaining to them.
I have perfectly good reading comprehension thank you very much. Perhaps we could leave out the personal comments? Thank you.
Now like you say in your initial post perhaps you don't mean this thread to come across in the way it does in the same way you think maybe toddler fans don't mean to be deliberately insulting?
The fact is I don't think toddlers are *it* for family play as your response attempts to indicate. But they are integral to the whole experience for me-same as if babies/kids/teens/adults/elders are-because they represent whole years of each sims life. You see I enjoy my sims lives from cradle to grave.
You are taking someone else's subjective experiences and then deciding they mean to be personally insulting to your subjective experience. You are judging that-you don't know if they mean anything to anyone else's experiences.
If you want to enjoy your subjective experiences without people interfering there comes the responsibility to allow others their experiences and their opinions too.
Like I said in my pervious post-it's noone business for anyone to tell you your subjectI've experience is wrong-the same as it would be wrong for you to do the same to others. It cuts both ways you see-it has zero to do with toddlers and everything to do with people being able to enjoy the sims any way you see fit as a player. There is never a 'wrong' way to play the sims so it follows that there is no 'wrong' way to feel about certain features.
Perhaps you needed me to clarify. But my point is this-you are absolutely entitled to your subjective sims experience and I will support that always. What I don't support from anyone is telling other people that their subjective experience is wrong. Part of that falls under that toddlers make a game for some people. Same as from what you've written I see you enjoy building-so I would never support someone telling you a game without it is sufficient for you.
You are the one making the judgement if whether it's a personal comment on your experience when someone says 'no family play without toddlers'. That may well be their subjectove experience and that's totally allowed. It's only ever an issue if they then come out and tell you that how you are playing is wrong. Then I'd say that's wrong too.
It just makes me very uncomfortable to watch a thread where the theme is that you want your subjective experience but if someone else's doesn't fit yours then that is 'wrong'. I.e it being wrong that toddlers make someone else's sims family play complete. It may well do and it's not up to anyone else to tell them that's not right.
*oh and it's nothing to do with real life*. I don't have kids and I don't support anyone telling others how to live anyway. Live and let live.
*sigh* I think me questioning your reading comprehension is just as insulting as you accusing me of calling out toddler fans for prefering toddlers to anything else. Let's leave it at that.
I'll try to illustrate what made me make this post, ok?
I'm friends with some players who want to see toddlers patched in before any other content, because that's what would make them happiest. I was prepared to root for them when I entered this forums. I wanted pools more (yes, that far back) and longed for basements but ok, EA would deside.
Then I began to read and people even told me, in private posts or in case of my friends personally over facebook, for my own peace of mind to stay in the creative corner because of toddler fans. My toddler loving fans told me to be prepared! I never had opened my mouth a handful of times at that point of time.
But I'm not only a builder, I love to play too so I wanted to read about other players' experiences.
I'm entitled to my subjective sims experience, you say. I think everyone is also entitled to their community experience. Some (note, not all! did I make myself clear? All that I say from now on is coined to them) practically held conversations hostage with their demands for toddlers.
Have you seen the livestream of Dine Out, just as a recent and fairly minor community event? Have you seen the toddler!!!!! spams? I have. Seasons and pets too but the majority? Toddler spams. I used full screen to escape the rolling words but that took away some of the fun, I wanted to read the questions people came up with too and the answers the mod was giving. That stream was not about future content and the mods said it beforehand but it didn't help. Would you jump into a conversation about movies and insist that the speaker elaborates on politics? Maybe it got better but the first five minutes were crazy.
Take any post that deals with wished for content that doesn't deal with toddlers. (Not, make me make myself clear again, general I wish for or toddler wish threads) and people popped in and derailed any conversation to toddlers and why they should be next and not terrain elevation, cars, open world or (insert wish here). It was as if any wish other than toddler was threatening the possible success of theirs. And one of their main arguements tended to be toddlers to offset the shallow. 'Why do you want XY, toddlers are more important?!? No family play without toddlers!'
And whenever someone complained about how they acted they were chastised because 'everyone has the right to complain, you are complaining about complaining, you hypocrite!' and overlooked that it wasn't about that at all but about rude conversation behaviour.
@Arletta you know I said nowhere in my post that it was wrong for the OP to have their opinion-I said there was nothing wrong with mine. I said I am sick of people having to worry about having to validate their own versions of any type of play style. They don't. It is no one else's business how they play and what makes them happy is just that-what makes them happy.
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
Please try reading comprehension. Where did I say ALL toddler fans? Nowhere. I put a qualifier in my definition (toddler fans who use toddlers as the be all and end all of family playto the exclusion of everything else) and even took pains to make clear that I feel with players who want them.
Your defensive reaction only strenghtens my point.
Edit for typo and highlighting.
To make it clear, I don’t think that people are deliberately insulting but sometimes they don’t know how they come across....
You don't mean it in a insulting way, but `there’s no family play because there are no toddlers’ mirrors exactly the sort of situation I've described above. Before you get angry, that is not what I think toddler fans want to express whenever they insist that the next thing please, please, please has to be toddlers, they just want to play the way that is most entertaining to them.
I have perfectly good reading comprehension thank you very much. Perhaps we could leave out the personal comments? Thank you.
Now like you say in your initial post perhaps you don't mean this thread to come across in the way it does in the same way you think maybe toddler fans don't mean to be deliberately insulting?
The fact is I don't think toddlers are *it* for family play as your response attempts to indicate. But they are integral to the whole experience for me-same as if babies/kids/teens/adults/elders are-because they represent whole years of each sims life. You see I enjoy my sims lives from cradle to grave.
You are taking someone else's subjective experiences and then deciding they mean to be personally insulting to your subjective experience. You are judging that-you don't know if they mean anything to anyone else's experiences.
If you want to enjoy your subjective experiences without people interfering there comes the responsibility to allow others their experiences and their opinions too.
Like I said in my pervious post-it's noone business for anyone to tell you your subjectI've experience is wrong-the same as it would be wrong for you to do the same to others. It cuts both ways you see-it has zero to do with toddlers and everything to do with people being able to enjoy the sims any way you see fit as a player. There is never a 'wrong' way to play the sims so it follows that there is no 'wrong' way to feel about certain features.
Perhaps you needed me to clarify. But my point is this-you are absolutely entitled to your subjective sims experience and I will support that always. What I don't support from anyone is telling other people that their subjective experience is wrong. Part of that falls under that toddlers make a game for some people. Same as from what you've written I see you enjoy building-so I would never support someone telling you a game without it is sufficient for you.
You are the one making the judgement if whether it's a personal comment on your experience when someone says 'no family play without toddlers'. That may well be their subjectove experience and that's totally allowed. It's only ever an issue if they then come out and tell you that how you are playing is wrong. Then I'd say that's wrong too.
It just makes me very uncomfortable to watch a thread where the theme is that you want your subjective experience but if someone else's doesn't fit yours then that is 'wrong'. I.e it being wrong that toddlers make someone else's sims family play complete. It may well do and it's not up to anyone else to tell them that's not right.
*oh and it's nothing to do with real life*. I don't have kids and I don't support anyone telling others how to live anyway. Live and let live.
*sigh* I think me questioning your reading comprehension is just as insulting as you accusing me of calling out toddler fans for prefering toddlers to anything else. Let's leave it at that.
I'll try to illustrate what made me make this post, ok?
I'm friends with some players who want to see toddlers patched in before any other content, because that's what would make them happiest. I was prepared to root for them when I entered this forums. I wanted pools more (yes, that far back) and longed for basements but ok, EA would deside.
Then I began to read and people even told me, in private posts or in case of my friends personally over facebook, for my own peace of mind to stay in the creative corner because of toddler fans. My toddler loving fans told me to be prepared! I never had opened my mouth a handful of times at that point of time.
But I'm not only a builder, I love to play too so I wanted to read about other players' experiences.
I'm entitled to my subjective sims experience, you say. I think everyone is also entitled to their community experience. Some (note, not all! did I make myself clear? All that I say from now on is coined to them) practically held conversations hostage with their demands for toddlers.
Have you seen the livestream of Dine Out, just as a recent and fairly minor community event? Have you seen the toddler!!!!! spams? I have. Seasons and pets too but the majority? Toddler spams. I used full screen to escape the rolling words but that took away some of the fun, I wanted to read the questions people came up with too and the answers the mod was giving. That stream was not about future content and the mods said it beforehand but it didn't help. Would you jump into a conversation about movies and insist that the speaker elaborates on politics? Maybe it got better but the first five minutes were crazy.
Take any post that deals with wished for content that doesn't deal with toddlers. (Not, make me make myself clear again, general I wish for or toddler wish threads) and people popped in and derailed any conversation to toddlers and why they should be next and not terrain elevation, cars, open world or (insert wish here). It was as if any wish other than toddler was threatening the possible success of theirs. And one of their main arguements tended to be toddlers to offset the shallow. 'Why do you want XY, toddlers are more important?!? No family play without toddlers!'
And whenever someone complained about how they acted they were chastised because 'everyone has the right to complain, you are complaining about complaining, you hypocrite!' and overlooked that it wasn't about that at all but about rude conversation behaviour.
The way you deal with rude behaviour is going to the mods.
I absolutely do not support this theory that because *some* toddler fans cannot behave then other toddler fans should be 'punished' in some way. Which is where this thread is headed and the themes you have just suggested in your reply.
You know it's all individuals right?
You happening to share a desire for the game with someone else doesn't make you guilty for the behaviour of others who behave badly who also like that feature.
I have no control over other people-same as you don't. I don't see why I should continually be subject to the 'but one time I saw someone who wants toddlers act in this bad way' as an excuse for treating others less well.
My point stands. It's nothing to do with toddlers and everything to do with subjective experiences with any features you could name.
Because other people find toddlers integral to their subjective experience isn't wrong. Same as your way to play isn't either. What's wrong is when one or another tells the other their subjective experience is wrong. That's stepping over the line into personal comments.
Instead of talking about the game you are discussing the players.
*Oh and everyone here has dealt with poor behaviour. I've been subject to it more times than you can count. I don't put that on other players who happen to like/dislike what others like.*
I just think it is all subjective to how someone feels about toddlers IRL, and not necessarily in-game. Many people on here and admittedly myself forget to NOT put their own biased opinions first and "facts" later.
For example, I remember babysitting a friend's toddler and I thought I was going to lose my mind. I thought being a teacher's assistant was bad, until you're home alone with two toddlers screaming in your ear. A first impression like that sort of sticks with you.
I digress; toddlers would be a nice addition to the game even if I don't use it personally (much like how some people aren't using this recent update, for different circumstances of course). I don't think it's fair to say that toddlers are necessary for family play though, because a lot of families may not want or be able to have a child or children, and that is just how they want to have their family.
@Noogster you put it better and shorter than I can. And just like with the gender stuff people are arguing.
I just think it is all subjective to how someone feels about toddlers IRL, and not necessarily in-game. Many people on here and admittedly myself forget to NOT put their own biased opinions first and "facts" later.
For example, I remember babysitting a friend's toddler and I thought I was going to lose my mind. I thought being a teacher's assistant was bad, until you're home alone with two toddlers screaming in your ear. A first impression like that sort of sticks with you.
I digress; toddlers would be a nice addition to the game even if I don't use it personally (much like how some people aren't using this recent update, for different circumstances of course). I don't think it's fair to say that toddlers are necessary for family play though, because a lot of families may not want or be able to have a child or children, and that is just how they want to have their family.
@Noogster you put it better and shorter than I can. And just like with the gender stuff people are arguing. I had a fairly heated conversation with someone who I thought had too much emphasis on a functional plum as a definition of female. Ah well, she had her opinion, I had mine.
But where are people saying it's wrong for families to be any definition?! I honestly don't understand this.
Why would it be wrong for a player who currently has a toddler to say she can't play her family play because they don't exist in TS4? That doesn't mean anything to anyone else's games?!
If anyone tells you how you play is wrong then they are in the wrong. End of story.
It's pretty simple for me.
I dislike TS4 age stages so much (no toddlers/old looking teens) that I don't bother to have sims get married and have children.
Therefore I have no family play. (Actually I have no play at all because I have stopped playing.)
I am waiting to see if EA makes Generations as their marketing survey defined it.
That will fix family play for me.
Why would it be wrong for a player who currently has a toddler to say she can't play her family play because they don't exist in TS4? That doesn't mean anything to anyone else's games?!
No, but a lot of people who want toddlers complain that TS4 is losing family value (as a whole), leaving it up to ones own assumption that that also means family play is only family play when there are toddlers involved. People have been making that clear in the thread already so I just restated it with my own two cents.
It's not wrong for someone to say they can't play their game in a family-oriented way, but that's not fair when they say family play in general, not even referring to their own way of playing.
It's pretty simple for me.
I dislike TS4 age stages so much (no toddlers/old looking teens) that I don't bother to have sims get married and have children.
Therefore I have no family play. (Actually I have no play at all because I have stopped playing.)
I am waiting to see if EA makes Generations as their marketing survey defined it.
That will fix family play for me.
An example of exactly how I feel. I'm into enjoying every diverse age stage in a sims life too.
I just think it is all subjective to how someone feels about toddlers IRL, and not necessarily in-game. Many people on here and admittedly myself forget to NOT put their own biased opinions first and "facts" later.
For example, I remember babysitting a friend's toddler and I thought I was going to lose my mind. I thought being a teacher's assistant was bad, until you're home alone with two toddlers screaming in your ear. A first impression like that sort of sticks with you.
I digress; toddlers would be a nice addition to the game even if I don't use it personally (much like how some people aren't using this recent update, for different circumstances of course). I don't think it's fair to say that toddlers are necessary for family play though, because a lot of families may not want or be able to have a child or children, and that is just how they want to have their family.
@Noogster you put it better and shorter than I can. And just like with the gender stuff people are arguing. I had a fairly heated conversation with someone who I thought had too much emphasis on a functional plum as a definition of female. Ah well, she had her opinion, I had mine.
But where are people saying it's wrong for families to be any definition?! I honestly don't understand this.
Why would it be wrong for a player who currently has a toddler to say she can't play her family play because they don't exist in TS4? That doesn't mean anything to anyone else's games?!
If anyone tells you how you play is wrong then they are in the wrong. End of story.
The difference between:
'I want toddlers because they are essential for my play' <-opinion and feeling, totally awesome in my opinion
and
'I want toddlers because they are what makes a family.' <- excluding anyone who has a family but not a toddler.
I was a family player in TS3. I found the children to be the most annoying lifespan. I don't know why, I just didn't like them at that age. They did annoying things (preside over court, joy ride on sofa) and their interactions were limited. And I think I just didn't like the way they looked. I couldn't wait for them to age up. I didn't mind toddlers though. They were more demanding, but at least they were cute, haha.
When I first started really getting into this game, I found it a bit odd to get used to the age from baby into child, but I'm okay with it now. I like the kids, they're cute and I can do a lot more with them than in TS3. A lot of my saves have been singles under one roof, but I did play some family households as well. It would be nice to have toddlers again. I don't see it as the single most important life stage, but I would like to see something in between babies and children. Family play for me always includes pets too, so I'd definitely want to see pets back in the game as well. Pets were always part of my family growing up so I like my sim families to have pets as well.
OP, your title is provoking.
I have not even read your post.
While toddlers is not all family play, I agree, but a simulation game is broken when a 7 year old child jumps from the bassinet and when the same 7 year old suddenly becomes an adult.
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for this broken and half baked aging system in a simulation game about people and specially in a Sims game.
No matter what you say you cannot deny that:
The Sims 4 has taken the sims franchise backwards when it comes to life stages.
I said more than enough
Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
Why would it be wrong for a player who currently has a toddler to say she can't play her family play because they don't exist in TS4? That doesn't mean anything to anyone else's games?!
No, but a lot of people who want toddlers complain that TS4 is losing family value (as a whole), leaving it up to ones own assumption that that also means family play is only family play when there are toddlers involved. People have been making that clear in the thread already so I just restated it with my own two cents.
It's not wrong for someone to say they can't play their game in a family-oriented way, but that's not fair when they say family play in general, not even referring to their own way of playing.
But yet that's taking individual opinions and placing it to apply to an artificial group again.
People do speak to their own opinions or experiences as a matter of course. Do people really have to add *for my version of this playstyle* to stop others getting offended unintentionally? If someone says 'there's no family play without toddlers' then it's the person interpreting it as applying to others when in fact they may be talking to their own experiences. It's fine to ask people to clarify in that situation.
But also I reiterate over and over again. If someone tells you the way that you play is wrong they are in the wrong. That's not okay. I don't know many sims fans who would support that sort of behaviour.
I just think it is all subjective to how someone feels about toddlers IRL, and not necessarily in-game. Many people on here and admittedly myself forget to NOT put their own biased opinions first and "facts" later.
For example, I remember babysitting a friend's toddler and I thought I was going to lose my mind. I thought being a teacher's assistant was bad, until you're home alone with two toddlers screaming in your ear. A first impression like that sort of sticks with you.
I digress; toddlers would be a nice addition to the game even if I don't use it personally (much like how some people aren't using this recent update, for different circumstances of course). I don't think it's fair to say that toddlers are necessary for family play though, because a lot of families may not want or be able to have a child or children, and that is just how they want to have their family.
@Noogster you put it better and shorter than I can. And just like with the gender stuff people are arguing. I had a fairly heated conversation with someone who I thought had too much emphasis on a functional plum as a definition of female. Ah well, she had her opinion, I had mine.
But where are people saying it's wrong for families to be any definition?! I honestly don't understand this.
Why would it be wrong for a player who currently has a toddler to say she can't play her family play because they don't exist in TS4? That doesn't mean anything to anyone else's games?!
If anyone tells you how you play is wrong then they are in the wrong. End of story.
The difference between:
'I want toddlers because they are essential for my play' <-opinion and feeling, totally awesome in my opinion
and
'I want toddlers because they are what makes a family.' <- excluding anyone who has a family but not a toddler.
But yet you are the one interpreting this @MorriSan statement two may be a reference to their particular experience as in 'they are what makes a family... complete' (and they may have toddler family member they are referring to)
You are choosing to take people's statements and applying to your experience without knowing if that user intends it to come across that way.
I don't support anyone telling anyone how to live in real life.
Like I've said I don't have kids. I don't intend to discuss my personal circumstances. But because someone else feels their experience isn't complete means nothing to my game or subjective experience.
Comments
The issue I have with this is that instead of dealing with the individuals who have said that there is no family play the OP is lumping everyone who wants toddlers in together as an artificial group and 'punishing' them by making a thread dedicated to calling toddler fans out for something they may not have ever said.
If someone is happy without toddlers that is fine. If someone thinks no toddlers breaks their version of family play then that is true too. It is all subjective.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Please try reading comprehension. Where did I say ALL toddler fans? Nowhere. I put a qualifier in my definition (toddler fans who use toddlers as the be all and end all of family play to the exclusion of everything else) and even took pains to make clear that I feel with players who want them.
Your defensive reaction only strenghtens my point.
Edit for typo and highlighting.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
Also, of course there are families without toddlers, but you won't find a family where the kids skipped the toddler stage and magically learnt to walk and stuff.
The Essence
How To Lose Your Ugliness in Ten Generations
I'd like to see my sims teach their children to walk and talk, drive, love, be loved tell stories and give advice, maybe I ask for too much... Maybe a family picnic with all the generations young and old actually interacting like family instead of strangers who have similar faces.
I'd like my elders to be able to relate to their family's generations instead of just retire and wait to die. Knit a blanket, rock in a rocking chair on the porch, show off family pictures to their bridge club.. Anything.
I don't think the sims is only about parties. I did at one point but not anymore. I just don't think there's really ANY type of family interaction and simply adding toddlers isn't going to fix it.
I have perfectly good reading comprehension thank you very much. Perhaps we could leave out the personal comments? Thank you.
Now like you say in your initial post perhaps you don't mean this thread to come across in the way it does in the same way you think maybe toddler fans don't mean to be deliberately insulting?
The fact is I don't think toddlers are *it* for family play as your response attempts to indicate. But they are integral to the whole experience for me-same as if babies/kids/teens/adults/elders are-because they represent whole years of each sims life. You see I enjoy my sims lives from cradle to grave.
You are taking someone else's subjective experiences and then deciding they mean to be personally insulting to your subjective experience. You are judging that-you don't know if they mean anything to anyone else's experiences.
If you want to enjoy your subjective experiences without people interfering there comes the responsibility to allow others their experiences and their opinions too.
Like I said in my pervious post-it's noone business for anyone to tell you your subjectI've experience is wrong-the same as it would be wrong for you to do the same to others. It cuts both ways you see-it has zero to do with toddlers and everything to do with people being able to enjoy the sims any way you see fit as a player. There is never a 'wrong' way to play the sims so it follows that there is no 'wrong' way to feel about certain features.
Perhaps you needed me to clarify. But my point is this-you are absolutely entitled to your subjective sims experience and I will support that always. What I don't support from anyone is telling other people that their subjective experience is wrong. Part of that falls under that toddlers make a game for some people. Same as from what you've written I see you enjoy building-so I would never support someone telling you a game without it is sufficient for you.
You are the one making the judgement if whether it's a personal comment on your experience when someone says 'no family play without toddlers'. That may well be their subjectove experience and that's totally allowed. It's only ever an issue if they then come out and tell you that how you are playing is wrong. Then I'd say that's wrong too.
It just makes me very uncomfortable to watch a thread where the theme is that you want your subjective experience but if someone else's doesn't fit yours then that is 'wrong'. I.e it being wrong that toddlers make someone else's sims family play complete. It may well do and it's not up to anyone else to tell them that's not right.
*oh and it's nothing to do with real life*. I don't have kids and I don't support anyone telling others how to live anyway. Live and let live.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I think that it does come off as if you are categorizing Simmers who want toddlers when you say things like
I'm not saying thats what you mean but it does come off like that.
I want toddlders and I also want seasons pets, but I feel that Sims should come first since it is about them. I'm sympathetic for anyone who feels their game isn't complete. What makes it harder for all of us is the fact that EA won't share any info. A lot drama wouldn't even be in these forums if EA just be honest with us.
I don't see many toddler threads anymore since they have the pinned thread. I do see people annoyed or upset about people wanting toddlers type threads more so.
Babies
More interactions or at least removed them from the basket.
Baby changing station
Baby Carriers
Toddlers
In game would be nice.
Strollers for toddlers and babies.
Children
Bring back private school gameplay scenario.
Military School.
Greeting parents
School Bus
Excited kids show parents they got a good grade.
Teens
Alter the height to break it up from Young Adults, Adults & Elders.
Bring back Ache
Teenage tantrums
Run Away teens
Young Adults & Adults
More facial details for vary aging.
Mid life Crisis scenario.
Elders
Walking sticks & canes brought back.
Vary elder walk styles.
More aged facial detail options.
Good & Bad Death i.e Hulu girls & suitcase.
YouTube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwUE8EBk9VunVA_wkDFVRUw
Well said.
I feel the same way as @sparkfairy1 do on this subject. Don't take what people say about this game into your personal life. It isn't fair for you. I'm not married nor do I have kids (and I'm very happy). If someone says that "there is no family play without toddlers" then that is them. As long as they didn't insult you directly.
There is no need to be rude on these forums. Saying things like "Please try reading comprehension." is to me a direct insult towards Sparkfairy.
I get more bored of the kids having one trait and the same 4 aspirations before anything else
For example, I remember babysitting a friend's toddler and I thought I was going to lose my mind. I thought being a teacher's assistant was bad, until you're home alone with two toddlers screaming in your ear. A first impression like that sort of sticks with you.
I digress; toddlers would be a nice addition to the game even if I don't use it personally (much like how some people aren't using this recent update, for different circumstances of course). I don't think it's fair to say that toddlers are necessary for family play though, because a lot of families may not want or be able to have a child or children, and that is just how they want to have their family.
*sigh* I think me questioning your reading comprehension is just as insulting as you accusing me of calling out toddler fans for prefering toddlers to anything else. Let's leave it at that.
I'll try to illustrate what made me make this post, ok?
I'm friends with some players who want to see toddlers patched in before any other content, because that's what would make them happiest. I was prepared to root for them when I entered this forums. I wanted pools more (yes, that far back) and longed for basements but ok, EA would deside.
Then I began to read and people even told me, in private posts or in case of my friends personally over facebook, for my own peace of mind to stay in the creative corner because of toddler fans. My toddler loving fans told me to be prepared! I never had opened my mouth a handful of times at that point of time.
But I'm not only a builder, I love to play too so I wanted to read about other players' experiences.
I'm entitled to my subjective sims experience, you say. I think everyone is also entitled to their community experience. Some (note, not all! did I make myself clear? All that I say from now on is coined to them) practically held conversations hostage with their demands for toddlers.
Have you seen the livestream of Dine Out, just as a recent and fairly minor community event? Have you seen the toddler!!!!! spams? I have. Seasons and pets too but the majority? Toddler spams. I used full screen to escape the rolling words but that took away some of the fun, I wanted to read the questions people came up with too and the answers the mod was giving. That stream was not about future content and the mods said it beforehand but it didn't help. Would you jump into a conversation about movies and insist that the speaker elaborates on politics? Maybe it got better but the first five minutes were crazy.
Take any post that deals with wished for content that doesn't deal with toddlers. (Not, make me make myself clear again, general I wish for or toddler wish threads) and people popped in and derailed any conversation to toddlers and why they should be next and not terrain elevation, cars, open world or (insert wish here). It was as if any wish other than toddler was threatening the possible success of theirs. And one of their main arguements tended to be toddlers to offset the shallow. 'Why do you want XY, toddlers are more important?!? No family play without toddlers!'
And whenever someone complained about how they acted they were chastised because 'everyone has the right to complain, you are complaining about complaining, you hypocrite!' and overlooked that it wasn't about that at all but about rude conversation behaviour.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
The way you deal with rude behaviour is going to the mods.
I absolutely do not support this theory that because *some* toddler fans cannot behave then other toddler fans should be 'punished' in some way. Which is where this thread is headed and the themes you have just suggested in your reply.
You know it's all individuals right?
You happening to share a desire for the game with someone else doesn't make you guilty for the behaviour of others who behave badly who also like that feature.
I have no control over other people-same as you don't. I don't see why I should continually be subject to the 'but one time I saw someone who wants toddlers act in this bad way' as an excuse for treating others less well.
My point stands. It's nothing to do with toddlers and everything to do with subjective experiences with any features you could name.
Because other people find toddlers integral to their subjective experience isn't wrong. Same as your way to play isn't either. What's wrong is when one or another tells the other their subjective experience is wrong. That's stepping over the line into personal comments.
Instead of talking about the game you are discussing the players.
*Oh and everyone here has dealt with poor behaviour. I've been subject to it more times than you can count. I don't put that on other players who happen to like/dislike what others like.*
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
@Noogster you put it better and shorter than I can. And just like with the gender stuff people are arguing.
edit to delet stuff that didn't belong here.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
But where are people saying it's wrong for families to be any definition?! I honestly don't understand this.
Why would it be wrong for a player who currently has a toddler to say she can't play her family play because they don't exist in TS4? That doesn't mean anything to anyone else's games?!
If anyone tells you how you play is wrong then they are in the wrong. End of story.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I dislike TS4 age stages so much (no toddlers/old looking teens) that I don't bother to have sims get married and have children.
Therefore I have no family play. (Actually I have no play at all because I have stopped playing.)
I am waiting to see if EA makes Generations as their marketing survey defined it.
That will fix family play for me.
No, but a lot of people who want toddlers complain that TS4 is losing family value (as a whole), leaving it up to ones own assumption that that also means family play is only family play when there are toddlers involved. People have been making that clear in the thread already so I just restated it with my own two cents.
It's not wrong for someone to say they can't play their game in a family-oriented way, but that's not fair when they say family play in general, not even referring to their own way of playing.
An example of exactly how I feel. I'm into enjoying every diverse age stage in a sims life too.
I hope you get what will fix it for you
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
The difference between:
'I want toddlers because they are essential for my play' <-opinion and feeling, totally awesome in my opinion
and
'I want toddlers because they are what makes a family.' <- excluding anyone who has a family but not a toddler.
Morri’s Showcase Thread
When I first started really getting into this game, I found it a bit odd to get used to the age from baby into child, but I'm okay with it now. I like the kids, they're cute and I can do a lot more with them than in TS3. A lot of my saves have been singles under one roof, but I did play some family households as well. It would be nice to have toddlers again. I don't see it as the single most important life stage, but I would like to see something in between babies and children. Family play for me always includes pets too, so I'd definitely want to see pets back in the game as well. Pets were always part of my family growing up so I like my sim families to have pets as well.
I have not even read your post.
While toddlers is not all family play, I agree, but a simulation game is broken when a 7 year old child jumps from the bassinet and when the same 7 year old suddenly becomes an adult.
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for this broken and half baked aging system in a simulation game about people and specially in a Sims game.
No matter what you say you cannot deny that:
I said more than enough
But yet that's taking individual opinions and placing it to apply to an artificial group again.
People do speak to their own opinions or experiences as a matter of course. Do people really have to add *for my version of this playstyle* to stop others getting offended unintentionally? If someone says 'there's no family play without toddlers' then it's the person interpreting it as applying to others when in fact they may be talking to their own experiences. It's fine to ask people to clarify in that situation.
But also I reiterate over and over again. If someone tells you the way that you play is wrong they are in the wrong. That's not okay. I don't know many sims fans who would support that sort of behaviour.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Its sad really
But yet you are the one interpreting this @MorriSan statement two may be a reference to their particular experience as in 'they are what makes a family... complete' (and they may have toddler family member they are referring to)
You are choosing to take people's statements and applying to your experience without knowing if that user intends it to come across that way.
I don't support anyone telling anyone how to live in real life.
Like I've said I don't have kids. I don't intend to discuss my personal circumstances. But because someone else feels their experience isn't complete means nothing to my game or subjective experience.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1