Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
It is my belief that the folks saying they will not purchase are not making threats they are stating that they are that unhappy about the issue. Where I live, if the consumer doesn't like something, they do not purchase it. If they had liked it at one time, but changes turned them away, they state that will no longer purchase the product. IF a consumer care teams take the idea If consumers say negative things about my product; I will ignore them, then the consumer care team is missing a great opportunity for consumer feedback that could result in thier company developing a better product.
@Writin_Reg well said! If a huge company like EA find it too hard and expensive to make games with all the resources and access to the best and brightest staff that comes with their position in the market then they are in serious trouble.
But look at their other games-they aren't doing this elsewhere!
I mean if they can hand on heart say this is the best they are capable of for the sims I feel sorry for them. Fact is we've seen some of the same staff doing much better things when they were new to the job! Something is preventing them from greatness. Don't care what it is. Just want it fixed. And I do not want to hear any more excuses. If all you have are excuses EA I think it's time you offered refunds to those of us who bought under promises you've been incapable of fulfilling.
I think EA are treating the sims game like a Z grade title. I just dont understand why?
Are they doing this with The Sims 4 because they know the game is not getting any better so they just dont want to spend on it anymore?
The half baked stuff they keep releasing every month, the ignorance to what players demand!
I just don't know what to say. I think before the players EA itself has given up on The Sims 4. So when they did that why should we players have any hope that this game will get any better?
Right now it is just the matter of releasing small packs every month and making fast money of them.
Hypothetically it may well be that their cost benefit analysis shows them that it's not worth salvaging things for those they haven't catered to. We've seen the devs talk about how limiting the engine is and sometimes it is more expensive to try to fix something than it is to start from scratch. I suspect that they may be having issues given the explanation they gave for babies stuck to a bassinet.
They may have expected better returns in profits for the game and the issues may have meant they don't have as much access to further funds to fix the issues.
If that's the case I wish they would just come out and say it and stop stringing people along.
Yes I think the game has been given a potato budget!
Whatever difficulty the developers are saying they have is mainly because of the budget. It is a big shame since this is an A grade title. or better to say was an A grade title
Do yo really think that EA should have hired an even bigger team of highly educated professionals?
It is not me who says "No this is expensive"
It is the gurus!
A bear animation was called very expensive
A beard of a certain style expensive
A certain way of sitting on the lounge is very expensive
We are in 2015 and these expensive excuses are getting too old. Game budget has been definitely very much below all the previous sims games.
Heavy animation cut from the game due to this excuse!
I think it is a big shame when developers keep giving us the expensive excuse for animation when we see normal people can do wonders with animation.
I am sure bear animation would not be as complex as this dancing animation that a normal person did to a Sims 4 model. And yea even the hair animates! Something that we had in TS2 and the developers decided to ditch it in TS3 and TS4. This franchise has been going backwards heavily
@Writin_Reg well said! If a huge company like EA find it too hard and expensive to make games with all the resources and access to the best and brightest staff that comes with their position in the market then they are in serious trouble.
But look at their other games-they aren't doing this elsewhere!
I mean if they can hand on heart say this is the best they are capable of for the sims I feel sorry for them. Fact is we've seen some of the same staff doing much better things when they were new to the job! Something is preventing them from greatness. Don't care what it is. Just want it fixed. And I do not want to hear any more excuses. If all you have are excuses EA I think it's time you offered refunds to those of us who bought under promises you've been incapable of fulfilling.
I think EA are treating the sims game like a Z grade title. I just dont understand why?
Are they doing this with The Sims 4 because they know the game is not getting any better so they just dont want to spend on it anymore?
The half baked stuff they keep releasing every month, the ignorance to what players demand!
I just don't know what to say. I think before the players EA itself has given up on The Sims 4. So when they did that why should we players have any hope that this game will get any better?
Right now it is just the matter of releasing small packs every month and making fast money of them.
Hypothetically it may well be that their cost benefit analysis shows them that it's not worth salvaging things for those they haven't catered to. We've seen the devs talk about how limiting the engine is and sometimes it is more expensive to try to fix something than it is to start from scratch. I suspect that they may be having issues given the explanation they gave for babies stuck to a bassinet.
They may have expected better returns in profits for the game and the issues may have meant they don't have as much access to further funds to fix the issues.
If that's the case I wish they would just come out and say it and stop stringing people along.
Yes I think the game has been given a potato budget!
Whatever difficulty the developers are saying they have is mainly because of the budget. It is a big shame since this is an A grade title. or better to say was an A grade title
Do yo really think that EA should have hired an even bigger team of highly educated professionals?
It is not me who says "No this is expensive"
It is the gurus!
A bear animation was called very expensive
A beard of a certain style expensive
A certain way of sitting on the lounge is very expensive
We are in 2015 and these expensive excuses are getting too old. Game budget has been definitely very much below all the previous sims games.
Heavy animation cut from the game due to this excuse!
I think it is a big shame when developers keep giving us the expensive excuse for animation when we see normal people can do wonders with animation.
I am sure bear animation would not be as complex as this dancing animation that a normal person did to a Sims 4 model. And yea even the hair animates! Something that we had in TS2 and the developers decided to ditch it in TS3 and TS4. This franchise has been going backwards heavily
Something to keep in mind, however, is that fans have the opportunity to decide for themselves how much time and money to spend on a project. Employees do not have that opportunity. Then have focus assignments with a budget.
That's also why there is hardly any simulation. That data requires a lot of processing power which isn't available on low end machines.
The processing requirements for a "sims level" simulation isn't all that much. Computers today are capable of much more than TS4 even begins to touch. TS2 simulation aspect was so far beyond what the TS4 has that its not even comparable, and it managed to do it on much older and severely less capable hardware. Adding TS2 level sim intelligence and interactions to TS4 wouldn't even be a blip on today's hardware.
It simply takes dedication from the developers to do it. I'm sure for them it would be more work, but hardware isn't even remotely the limiting factor in this case.
That's also why there is hardly any simulation. That data requires a lot of processing power which isn't available on low end machines.
The processing requirements for a "sims level" simulation isn't all that much. Computers today are capable of much more than TS4 even begins to touch. TS2 simulation aspect was so far beyond what the TS4 has that its not even comparable, and it managed to do it on much older and severely less capable hardware. Adding TS2 level sim intelligence and interactions to TS4 wouldn't even be a blip on today's hardware.
It simply takes dedication from the developers to do it. I'm sure for them it would be more work, but hardware isn't even remotely the limiting factor in this case.
It's not just processing power, however, it is also available RAM and graphic abilities, as well as hard drive space.
lighting, texture, coded objects (clickable objects) can pull very heavily and RAM and graphics.
Edited to remove a double quote that keeps happening because I need a new mouse.
The very first week Sims 4 came out simmers started an official formal petition for Toddlers and pools came out around the 8th of September - that had garnered 25,914 signatures that was sent to the Sims team - so don't say it is a few hundred people and that was just the first week Sims 4 had been out. Since that time many, and i do mean a great deal many more people have grown dissatisfied and unhappy with the direction of this game as well as the Sims team still ignoring our calls for toddlers among other things. Saying "I hear you" and here it is over a year later and we have not been proven they heard us at all as we are still without the very things that was on that list.
Anyone who denies the sheer numbers of dissatisfied players - in my view just hasn't been paying attention - never mind blind to the growing numbers now spread around the globe on Sims sites every where. You cannot go on a Sims 4 site anywhere now a days and not see the unrest and the people getting beyond weary - but outright fed up with waiting for things that never come. If anyone can not see it - they are in total denial. The flag ship is on fire in a bad way - and without the proper response to any big fire we all know what happens. Denial will not change that one iota - saying we are few does not wash when you have been riding this trail this entire past year no matter how hard someone tries to convince others - there comes a point when one in denial just has to omit they are wrong - the game is in trouble - and the very fact the one fighting so hard to say it isn't so - can't even enjoy the game themselves - is far more telling than any words anyone really has to say. If you cannot enjoy the game you highly defend - how the heck can you not see it going up in flames?
It's beyond a shame too - because not one of us want to see the Sims go up in flames or end. We've love this game for so long and so faithfully none of us ever could have imagined it would ever be treated so shallowly and disrespected like it has - never mind constantly getting no acceptable encouragement from it's creators, or anyone acknowledging something is actually being done to fix it. No comments are even more shallow than saying no comment - and don't even get me started on being reminded we are heard. When one does not "SEE" we are being heard - by the results not being in the game - over a year after we were first "heard" - the words mean nothing.
But it is bad enough we are actually fighting for the life of the Sims to make it great - to make it the game it was and can be, by including ALL play styles as it has been for the last 10 years - when the game went from being a good game to a great game - that everyone can enjoy.
The fact remains when someone persists in going in the wrong direction, and totally away from the road needed to travel on, they will just continue down an endless spiral to nowhere - and will never arrive at their sought out destination. Fact is if one needs to go east/west, and they keep moving north/south - they will never get anywhere but eventually reach the end of the line and possibly just fall off a cliff. You cannot climb a mountain by going around it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Is the Sims 4 what it is because it was supposed to be on-line? Because on-line was scrapped and they wanted to get the game released fast so they could make money back on it? Was the budget so low they decided not to give us open world, create-a-style and all the life stages because of that or because they didn't want to bother; removing them got the game released faster? They seem to have a lot of excuses why they couldn't do this or that and they are still making excuses. I think they are just playing us, I have a hard time believing anything on Twitter (not that I twitter but what's posted on here) and I don't trust that toddlers, pets or seasons will be coming anytime soon, if at all. Of course, they can certainly feel free to prove me wrong.
Is the Sims 4 what it is because it was supposed to be on-line? Because on-line was scrapped and they wanted to get the game released fast so they could make money back on it? Was the budget so low they decided not to give us open world, create-a-style and all the life stages because of that or because they didn't want to bother; removing them got the game released faster? They seem to have a lot of excuses why they couldn't do this or that and they are still making excuses. I think they are just playing us, I have a hard time believing anything on Twitter (not that I twitter but what's posted on here) and I don't trust that toddlers, pets or seasons will be coming anytime soon, if at all. Of course, they can certainly feel free to prove me wrong.
There is a saying I am sure we have all heard - Excuses. Everybody has one.
But the truth around excuses is they get you no where. It is the one making the excuse to try and find acceptance for not completing what ever it was they did not complete. Excuses are flimsy things and to rely on something so shallow and flimsy is a bit like bordering on insanity. Excuse may work a few times - but after a while - they become just excuses. We know how far excuses get us if we keep relying on them almost anywhere in real life. You can get demoted or even fired in jobs - sometimes they don't even accept a single excuse - so it is rather chancey to even use an excuse for not doing what is expected of you. In school excuses get you a zero, detention, maybe even thrown out of school when you use them one too many times. it is just plain better not to have to use an excuse and own up to why you didn't get the job done that should have been done to start with.
Even the best excuses are never good enough. Not very long ago my husband was in an accident during an ice storming blizzard that resulted in putting him in the hospital with a broken hip which had to be replaced and eventual months of therapy. You can definitely say he had a good excuse not to be at work It was not even his fault, and it was his day off from work the day it happened. But he lost his job because no matter how good his excuse was the company he worked for needed him at work to man their servers and computerized equipment or no body else worked - and of course he was in the hospital. So even the best excuses - the ones you can do nothing about makes one excused and accepted - why on earth should we accept excuse after shallow excuse for missing things in a game?
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
It is my belief that the folks saying they will not purchase are not making threats they are stating that they are that unhappy about the issue. Where I live, if the consumer doesn't like something, they do not purchase it. If they had liked it at one time, but changes turned them away, they state that will no longer purchase the product. IF a consumer care teams take the idea If consumers say negative things about my product; I will ignore them, then the consumer care team is missing a great opportunity for consumer feedback that could result in thier company developing a better product.
When I bought the base game and found how much was missing from it, I decided I wouldn't spend any more on the Sims 4 as I can not, at this stage, imaging the addition of extra content will ever make it into a game that I would want to play. Then I saw the boycott thread and I said I would boycott the next EP to support those who were trying to show just how unhappy many of us are with the game in its current state.
As a result of that boycott many simmers have expressed relief that they now realise they are not alone in their feelings about the Sims 4 game.
The boycott thread has made them feel it is not something missing in them but that the game is shallow and unsuited to the preferred playstyles of many people. Therefore, in my opinion the boycott succeeded regardless of the effect it may have on the future of the Sims 4 game or on EA.
People who were hanging in there hoping they might one day 'get it' have now decided to go back to play other iterations of the game while they watch and wait to see if EA ever does anything about fixing the Sims 4 to turn it into a game they would enjoy playing. And in the meantime they are buying more of other Sims games so EA is still making money from a lot of us. It just isn't going into The Sims 4 which is where most of the boycotting people would have preferred to be spending their money.
I think TS4 sales were much higher than even EA anticipated during the last quarter. They seem really surprised by it, IMO.
However, and of course this is just my opinion, but I doubt those higher sales can be maintained. There are too many players who have given up, and more continue to give up each day. I know I'm only one person, but I bought OR and GTW because I'm a Simmer and really tried to like this game, but haven't purchased anything since and won't be buying any of it. There are others out there who have bought the game but aren't buying anything now.
Personally I went back to playing TS3, since they couldn't be bothered to actually make an improved, upgraded game this time around.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Is the Sims 4 what it is because it was supposed to be on-line? Because on-line was scrapped and they wanted to get the game released fast so they could make money back on it? Was the budget so low they decided not to give us open world, create-a-style and all the life stages because of that or because they didn't want to bother; removing them got the game released faster? They seem to have a lot of excuses why they couldn't do this or that and they are still making excuses. I think they are just playing us, I have a hard time believing anything on Twitter (not that I twitter but what's posted on here) and I don't trust that toddlers, pets or seasons will be coming anytime soon, if at all. Of course, they can certainly feel free to prove me wrong.
There is a saying I am sure we have all heard - Excuses. Everybody has one.
But the truth around excuses is they get you no where. It is the one making the excuse to try and find acceptance for not completing what ever it was they did not complete. Excuses are flimsy things and to rely on something so shallow and flimsy is a bit like bordering on insanity. Excuse may work a few times - but after a while - they become just excuses. We know how far excuses get us if we keep relying on them almost anywhere in real life. You can get demoted or even fired in jobs - sometimes they don't even accept a single excuse - so it is rather chancey to even use an excuse for not doing what is expected of you. In school excuses get you a zero, detention, maybe even thrown out of school when you use them one too many times. it is just plain better not to have to use an excuse and own up to why you didn't get the job done that should have been done to start with.
Even the best excuses are never good enough. Not very long ago my husband was in an accident during an ice storming blizzard that resulted in putting him in the hospital with a broken hip which had to be replaced and eventual months of therapy. You can definitely say he had a good excuse not to be at work It was not even his fault, and it was his day off from work the day it happened. But he lost his job because no matter how good his excuse was the company he worked for needed him at work to man their servers and computerized equipment or no body else worked - and of course he was in the hospital. So even the best excuses - the ones you can do nothing about makes one excused and accepted - why on earth should we accept excuse after shallow excuse for missing things in a game?
I have a feeling your husband would have gotten to work if he could have and most certainly tried his best to get there. My parents always told me to do my best at whatever it was I decided to do. EA has not given me it's best with Sims 4. But somehow they think that it is their best or at least acceptable and that we should be happy with what we got. At least that's how I feel. Not only do I try and do my best but I don't settle. If I'm paying hard-earned money for a product it had better be a good one.
Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
I understand your argument, but I think you are operating under a false assumption - that forum users are the only people who were disappointed with the game.
It is convenient to argue that everyone outside of the forums is happy, since it is not something you can measure. However, the chances of that being true are slim. The disappointment with TS4 is not exclusive to the forums - you can see it on almost every feedback channel available. So as much as you may wish it was true, I don't think we're dealing with just a "few hundred" unhappy players.
While you used EA's financial report in an attempt to enhance your view, I think it did the opposite. The business model for the Sims has always been based around add-ons, whether it was Expansions, DLC, or whatever. The real potential of the franchise has never been the base game. Therefore, I think a reduced earnings forecast for this quarter would suggest that the sales for TS4 EP's and GP's have been weak. If that's true, it means that players are not sticking with the game, or don't like it enough to spend more money to enhance it.
With the Sims, EA made their money off the hardcore players who would spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars over the lifecycle of the game (a market who's views, I believe, are well represented in places like the forums). So I disagree that EA only cares about the casual pre-teen market. I think what really happened is that they underestimated how upset the hardcore fanbase would get. I think they expected it to blow over, and it hasn't.
Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
I understand your argument, but I think you are operating under a false assumption - that forum users are the only people who were disappointed with the game.
It is convenient to argue that everyone outside of the forums is happy, since it is not something you can measure. However, the chances of that being true are slim. The disappointment with TS4 is not exclusive to the forums - you can see it on almost every feedback channel available. So as much as you may wish it was true, I don't think we're dealing with just a "few hundred" unhappy players.
While you used EA's financial report in an attempt to enhance your view, I think it did the opposite. The business model for the Sims has always been based around add-ons, whether it was Expansions, DLC, or whatever. The real potential of the franchise has never been the base game. Therefore, I think a reduced earnings forecast for this quarter would suggest that maybe the sales for TS4 add-ons have not been strong.
With the Sims, EA made their money off the hardcore players who would spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars over the lifecycle of the game (a market who's views, I believe, are well represented in places like the forums). So I disagree that EA only cares about the casual pre-teen market. I think what really happened is that they underestimated how upset the hardcore fanbase would get. I think they expected it to blow over, and it hasn't.
I totally agree @Gthompkins48 and ive seen disappointment everywhere too. Facebook is worse than here!
My analysis of the article:
1. Before launch there were controversies around The Sims 4
Regarding changing from online to offline (if it is true) and toddlers, lots of game companies change the strategies they use in the development of a game during its early development. If EA is wrong than all gaming companies are wrong because a lot do this. I don't see what the big uproar was about.
EA is a publicly traded company so the developers are only going to release information when they legally can not when players demand the information to be released. Also, they have to market the game like any other company has to market a product. They are not an indie development company so their strategies for releasing information is going to be different. There really is no point in complaining that not enough information is released when they are going to release it when they can and they want.
2. The ‘Vision’
The vision of the game is basically clear. They were going for quirky and wilder stories with The Sims 4. Also, I wouldn't consider The Sims 4 a true sequel because the game is a sandbox game and it doesn't follow a storyline. It is more like the 4th installment in a series.
3. Giving funds from The Sims to Titanfall and other titles
Lot of businesses use their profits to fund other projects. This is how a company grows. I don't see the problem with this. In fact, it would be bad business for a company like EA to not expand its offerings.
To better make this argument, you should have complained that the employees should take a pay-cut and receive less pay. The biggest expense for companies are usually employee expenses. Since The Sims 3 employment expenses have risen in California as well as utility and other expenses. The best response would be for the company to move to a cheaper state, the company to layoff employees, or the company to cut employee wages.
4. ‘A truly stable base game’
Not every player has had a game riddled with bugs. The game is stable and that means that it won't have a ton of random crashes caused by bugs. None of the glitches you mentioned cause the game to crash constantly. The game runs stable on my computer. I haven't even had the incest bug you mentioned.
The issue with culling is the game is designed to run on older computers. It isn't a glitch it is rather an annoyance to players. Glitches and annoyances are two different things. The feature works as intended but since players don't like how the feature works, the developers are looking to improve it. I don't see the big issue.
5. ‘We are listening’
Their customer base expands to more than who is on the forums. I do think the SimGurus are listening to players but they aren't going to make a game that every player is going to enjoy. There are also several group of players with conflicting opinions. Just because a group does not feel like they are being listened to right now, does not mean they will never be listened to or they are just being ignored.
Also, EA does not have to act on every opinion the fans throw out at them. If they weren't listening to players, they would not send out surveys and ask opinions on certain issues on the forums. Also, you contradict yourself because in #5 you said the developers were looking into the culling issue. If they weren't listening, they would not be looking into a game mechanic that is working like it is supposed to work.
6. It goes far beyond ‘just’ toddlers, Create a Style or the myriad of other missing content
There is no proof all these features were cut from development. The list are features that we had in previous Sims games that were not appearing in The Sims 4. The developers said from the beginning there would be no Create-a-Style and never said a lot of the other features would be in the base game. You are misdirecting people making it seem like the developers promised these features and then removed them which was not the case. Also, The Sims 4 actually had more features than The Sims 3 base game.
7. Simulation
This is basically an opinion. I disagree with this because I can tell my Sims apart based on their traits and emotions. It could be better but to say all Sims act the same is a huge stretch. I also haven't seen a ton of children wandering my world during school hours. When my Sims stays home from school, most of their friends are usually unavailable during school hours. Also, I really don't care if children wander the streets during school hours because maybe they took a vacation day from school like my Sims.
8. ‘Modder friendly’
You aren't really clear on your argument here. What versions of the game are unplayable with mods? What do you mean by EA is packing up?
9. All customers who give you feedback should be appreciated
This is more of an opinion and it isn't realistic. No company does this so why should EA?
10. The legacy of SimCity 2013
SimCity 2013 and The Sims 4 are two different games made by two different teams. I also just checked my SimCity game and the online features still work and it is not shut down. The statement that the game was shut down is very misleading. Also, I don't understand the comparison when The Sims 4 doesn't have any online features that will impact gameplay.
The game is not perfect but no game is perfect. For what the game has to offer, I think it is a pretty good game.
Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
I understand your argument, but I think you are operating under a false assumption - that forum users are the only people who were disappointed with the game.
It is convenient to argue that everyone outside of the forums is happy, since it is not something you can measure. However, the chances of that being true are slim. The disappointment with TS4 is not exclusive to the forums - you can see it on almost every feedback channel available. So as much as you may wish it was true, I don't think we're dealing with just a "few hundred" unhappy players.
While you used EA's financial report in an attempt to enhance your view, I think it did the opposite. The business model for the Sims has always been based around add-ons, whether it was Expansions, DLC, or whatever. The real potential of the franchise has never been the base game. Therefore, I think a reduced earnings forecast for this quarter would suggest that the sales for TS4 EP's and GP's have been weak. If that's true, it means that players are not sticking with the game, or don't like it enough to spend more money to enhance it.
With the Sims, EA made their money off the hardcore players who would spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars over the lifecycle of the game (a market who's views, I believe, are well represented in places like the forums). So I disagree that EA only cares about the casual pre-teen market. I think what really happened is that they underestimated how upset the hardcore fanbase would get. I think they expected it to blow over, and it hasn't.
Something that has surprised me is the number of New Members with Old accounts why say they've been reading the forums for years but have never posted before and are now posting for the first time in their lives to express their negative feelings about the Sims 4.
Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
I understand your argument, but I think you are operating under a false assumption - that forum users are the only people who were disappointed with the game.
It is convenient to argue that everyone outside of the forums is happy, since it is not something you can measure. However, the chances of that being true are slim. The disappointment with TS4 is not exclusive to the forums - you can see it on almost every feedback channel available. So as much as you may wish it was true, I don't think we're dealing with just a "few hundred" unhappy players.
While you used EA's financial report in an attempt to enhance your view, I think it did the opposite. The business model for the Sims has always been based around add-ons, whether it was Expansions, DLC, or whatever. The real potential of the franchise has never been the base game. Therefore, I think a reduced earnings forecast for this quarter would suggest that the sales for TS4 EP's and GP's have been weak. If that's true, it means that players are not sticking with the game, or don't like it enough to spend more money to enhance it.
With the Sims, EA made their money off the hardcore players who would spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars over the lifecycle of the game (a market who's views, I believe, are well represented in places like the forums). So I disagree that EA only cares about the casual pre-teen market. I think what really happened is that they underestimated how upset the hardcore fanbase would get. I think they expected it to blow over, and it hasn't.
Something that has surprised me is the number of New Members with Old accounts why say they've been reading the forums for years but have never posted before and are now posting for the first time in their lives to express their negative feelings about the Sims 4.
That's also why there is hardly any simulation. That data requires a lot of processing power which isn't available on low end machines.
The processing requirements for a "sims level" simulation isn't all that much. Computers today are capable of much more than TS4 even begins to touch. TS2 simulation aspect was so far beyond what the TS4 has that its not even comparable, and it managed to do it on much older and severely less capable hardware. Adding TS2 level sim intelligence and interactions to TS4 wouldn't even be a blip on today's hardware.
It simply takes dedication from the developers to do it. I'm sure for them it would be more work, but hardware isn't even remotely the limiting factor in this case.
Not exactly. You are still thinking of closed worlds and keeping things the way they are now. I was thinking more of getting with the times and bringing back an open world. The processing power it took to run TS3, because of how the data for the whole town is loaded and stored in the memory all at once took a toll. That's why most people complain about lag and stuttering or crashing. They simply didn't have the processor to run it. Not to mention that the devs did a poor job at managing it and when they created the base game, they weren't thinking about the impact of expansions and store content.
TS4 is just a tablet game in disguise. There isn't much to it and what little there is is not complex enough to store. The memory is dumped every time you travel through a load screen. That's also when culling happens and when the game makes changes in the background. This is a very simple game.
My analysis of the article:
1. Before launch there were controversies around The Sims 4
Regarding changing from online to offline (if it is true) and toddlers, lots of game companies change the strategies they use in the development of a game during its early development. If EA is wrong than all gaming companies are wrong because a lot do this. I don't see what the big uproar was about.
EA is a publicly traded company so the developers are only going to release information when they legally can not when players demand the information to be released. Also, they have to market the game like any other company has to market a product. They are not an indie development company so their strategies for releasing information is going to be different. There really is no point in complaining that not enough information is released when they are going to release it when they can and they want.
2. The ‘Vision’
The vision of the game is basically clear. They were going for quirky and wilder stories with The Sims 4. Also, I wouldn't consider The Sims 4 a true sequel because the game is a sandbox game and it doesn't follow a storyline. It is more like the 4th installment in a series.
3. Giving funds from The Sims to Titanfall and other titles
Lot of businesses use their profits to fund other projects. This is how a company grows. I don't see the problem with this. In fact, it would be bad business for a company like EA to not expand its offerings.
To better make this argument, you should have complained that the employees should take a pay-cut and receive less pay. The biggest expense for companies are usually employee expenses. Since The Sims 3 employment expenses have risen in California as well as utility and other expenses. The best response would be for the company to move to a cheaper state, the company to layoff employees, or the company to cut employee wages.
4. ‘A truly stable base game’
Not every player has had a game riddled with bugs. The game is stable and that means that it won't have a ton of random crashes caused by bugs. None of the glitches you mentioned cause the game to crash constantly. The game runs stable on my computer. I haven't even had the incest bug you mentioned.
The issue with culling is the game is designed to run on older computers. It isn't a glitch it is rather an annoyance to players. Glitches and annoyances are two different things. The feature works as intended but since players don't like how the feature works, the developers are looking to improve it. I don't see the big issue.
5. ‘We are listening’
Their customer base expands to more than who is on the forums. I do think the SimGurus are listening to players but they aren't going to make a game that every player is going to enjoy. There are also several group of players with conflicting opinions. Just because a group does not feel like they are being listened to right now, does not mean they will never be listened to or they are just being ignored.
Also, EA does not have to act on every opinion the fans throw out at them. If they weren't listening to players, they would not send out surveys and ask opinions on certain issues on the forums. Also, you contradict yourself because in #5 you said the developers were looking into the culling issue. If they weren't listening, they would not be looking into a game mechanic that is working like it is supposed to work.
6. It goes far beyond ‘just’ toddlers, Create a Style or the myriad of other missing content
There is no proof all these features were cut from development. The list are features that we had in previous Sims games that were not appearing in The Sims 4. The developers said from the beginning there would be no Create-a-Style and never said a lot of the other features would be in the base game. You are misdirecting people making it seem like the developers promised these features and then removed them which was not the case. Also, The Sims 4 actually had more features than The Sims 3 base game.
7. Simulation
This is basically an opinion. I disagree with this because I can tell my Sims apart based on their traits and emotions. It could be better but to say all Sims act the same is a huge stretch. I also haven't seen a ton of children wandering my world during school hours. When my Sims stays home from school, most of their friends are usually unavailable during school hours. Also, I really don't care if children wander the streets during school hours because maybe they took a vacation day from school like my Sims.
8. ‘Modder friendly’
You aren't really clear on your argument here. What versions of the game are unplayable with mods? What do you mean by EA is packing up?
9. All customers who give you feedback should be appreciated
This is more of an opinion and it isn't realistic. No company does this so why should EA?
10. The legacy of SimCity 2013
SimCity 2013 and The Sims 4 are two different games made by two different teams. I also just checked my SimCity game and the online features still work and it is not shut down. The statement that the game was shut down is very misleading. Also, I don't understand the comparison when The Sims 4 doesn't have any online features that will impact gameplay.
The game is not perfect but no game is perfect. For what the game has to offer, I think it is a pretty good game.
In regards to #3:
The problem with Sim money being funneled into other projects is that Maxis proceeded to claim that they were forced to leave out content because of resources and funding. This is a slap in the face to fans who have spent billions of dollars on the franchise. I don't think it is appropriate to use revenues for other projects while simultaneously under-funding the future games.
Ouch - sorry, responded before reminder. Erpe has brought a lot of good ideas to the table, and I was responding based on that, no malice meant. There is a lot of sense about business ideas and how the gaming market is changing.
No offense taken
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues. Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
I understand your argument, but I think you are operating under a false assumption - that forum users are the only people who were disappointed with the game.
It is convenient to argue that everyone outside of the forums is happy, since it is not something you can measure. However, the chances of that being true are slim. The disappointment with TS4 is not exclusive to the forums - you can see it on almost every feedback channel available. So as much as you may wish it was true, I don't think we're dealing with just a "few hundred" unhappy players.
While you used EA's financial report in an attempt to enhance your view, I think it did the opposite. The business model for the Sims has always been based around add-ons, whether it was Expansions, DLC, or whatever. The real potential of the franchise has never been the base game. Therefore, I think a reduced earnings forecast for this quarter would suggest that the sales for TS4 EP's and GP's have been weak. If that's true, it means that players are not sticking with the game, or don't like it enough to spend more money to enhance it.
With the Sims, EA made their money off the hardcore players who would spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars over the lifecycle of the game (a market who's views, I believe, are well represented in places like the forums). So I disagree that EA only cares about the casual pre-teen market. I think what really happened is that they underestimated how upset the hardcore fanbase would get. I think they expected it to blow over, and it hasn't.
Something that has surprised me is the number of New Members with Old accounts why say they've been reading the forums for years but have never posted before and are now posting for the first time in their lives to express their negative feelings about the Sims 4.
Hah, like me. I think I had two or three posts before Sims 4. I was definitely a new member when Sims 4 came out.
My analysis of the article:
1. Before launch there were controversies around The Sims 4
Regarding changing from online to offline (if it is true) and toddlers, lots of game companies change the strategies they use in the development of a game during its early development. If EA is wrong than all gaming companies are wrong because a lot do this. I don't see what the big uproar was about.
EA is a publicly traded company so the developers are only going to release information when they legally can not when players demand the information to be released. Also, they have to market the game like any other company has to market a product. They are not an indie development company so their strategies for releasing information is going to be different. There really is no point in complaining that not enough information is released when they are going to release it when they can and they want.
2. The ‘Vision’
The vision of the game is basically clear. They were going for quirky and wilder stories with The Sims 4. Also, I wouldn't consider The Sims 4 a true sequel because the game is a sandbox game and it doesn't follow a storyline. It is more like the 4th installment in a series.
3. Giving funds from The Sims to Titanfall and other titles
Lot of businesses use their profits to fund other projects. This is how a company grows. I don't see the problem with this. In fact, it would be bad business for a company like EA to not expand its offerings.
To better make this argument, you should have complained that the employees should take a pay-cut and receive less pay. The biggest expense for companies are usually employee expenses. Since The Sims 3 employment expenses have risen in California as well as utility and other expenses. The best response would be for the company to move to a cheaper state, the company to layoff employees, or the company to cut employee wages.
4. ‘A truly stable base game’
Not every player has had a game riddled with bugs. The game is stable and that means that it won't have a ton of random crashes caused by bugs. None of the glitches you mentioned cause the game to crash constantly. The game runs stable on my computer. I haven't even had the incest bug you mentioned.
The issue with culling is the game is designed to run on older computers. It isn't a glitch it is rather an annoyance to players. Glitches and annoyances are two different things. The feature works as intended but since players don't like how the feature works, the developers are looking to improve it. I don't see the big issue.
5. ‘We are listening’
Their customer base expands to more than who is on the forums. I do think the SimGurus are listening to players but they aren't going to make a game that every player is going to enjoy. There are also several group of players with conflicting opinions. Just because a group does not feel like they are being listened to right now, does not mean they will never be listened to or they are just being ignored.
Also, EA does not have to act on every opinion the fans throw out at them. If they weren't listening to players, they would not send out surveys and ask opinions on certain issues on the forums. Also, you contradict yourself because in #5 you said the developers were looking into the culling issue. If they weren't listening, they would not be looking into a game mechanic that is working like it is supposed to work.
6. It goes far beyond ‘just’ toddlers, Create a Style or the myriad of other missing content
There is no proof all these features were cut from development. The list are features that we had in previous Sims games that were not appearing in The Sims 4. The developers said from the beginning there would be no Create-a-Style and never said a lot of the other features would be in the base game. You are misdirecting people making it seem like the developers promised these features and then removed them which was not the case. Also, The Sims 4 actually had more features than The Sims 3 base game.
7. Simulation
This is basically an opinion. I disagree with this because I can tell my Sims apart based on their traits and emotions. It could be better but to say all Sims act the same is a huge stretch. I also haven't seen a ton of children wandering my world during school hours. When my Sims stays home from school, most of their friends are usually unavailable during school hours. Also, I really don't care if children wander the streets during school hours because maybe they took a vacation day from school like my Sims.
8. ‘Modder friendly’
You aren't really clear on your argument here. What versions of the game are unplayable with mods? What do you mean by EA is packing up?
9. All customers who give you feedback should be appreciated
This is more of an opinion and it isn't realistic. No company does this so why should EA?
10. The legacy of SimCity 2013
SimCity 2013 and The Sims 4 are two different games made by two different teams. I also just checked my SimCity game and the online features still work and it is not shut down. The statement that the game was shut down is very misleading. Also, I don't understand the comparison when The Sims 4 doesn't have any online features that will impact gameplay.
The game is not perfect but no game is perfect. For what the game has to offer, I think it is a pretty good game.
Fair points. I say, though, that it's not enough to judge a game only by what it offers, but by what it could have offered, and didn't.
@Writin_Reg well said! If a huge company like EA find it too hard and expensive to make games with all the resources and access to the best and brightest staff that comes with their position in the market then they are in serious trouble.
But look at their other games-they aren't doing this elsewhere!
I mean if they can hand on heart say this is the best they are capable of for the sims I feel sorry for them. Fact is we've seen some of the same staff doing much better things when they were new to the job! Something is preventing them from greatness. Don't care what it is. Just want it fixed. And I do not want to hear any more excuses. If all you have are excuses EA I think it's time you offered refunds to those of us who bought under promises you've been incapable of fulfilling.
I think EA are treating the sims game like a Z grade title. I just dont understand why?
Are they doing this with The Sims 4 because they know the game is not getting any better so they just dont want to spend on it anymore?
The half baked stuff they keep releasing every month, the ignorance to what players demand!
I just don't know what to say. I think before the players EA itself has given up on The Sims 4. So when they did that why should we players have any hope that this game will get any better?
Right now it is just the matter of releasing small packs every month and making fast money of them.
Hypothetically it may well be that their cost benefit analysis shows them that it's not worth salvaging things for those they haven't catered to. We've seen the devs talk about how limiting the engine is and sometimes it is more expensive to try to fix something than it is to start from scratch. I suspect that they may be having issues given the explanation they gave for babies stuck to a bassinet.
They may have expected better returns in profits for the game and the issues may have meant they don't have as much access to further funds to fix the issues.
If that's the case I wish they would just come out and say it and stop stringing people along.
Yes I think the game has been given a potato budget!
Whatever difficulty the developers are saying they have is mainly because of the budget. It is a big shame since this is an A grade title. or better to say was an A grade title
Do yo really think that EA should have hired an even bigger team of highly educated professionals?
It is not me who says "No this is expensive"
It is the gurus!
A bear animation was called very expensive
A beard of a certain style expensive
A certain way of sitting on the lounge is very expensive
We are in 2015 and these expensive excuses are getting too old. Game budget has been definitely very much below all the previous sims games.
Heavy animation cut from the game due to this excuse!
I think it is a big shame when developers keep giving us the expensive excuse for animation when we see normal people can do wonders with animation.
I am sure bear animation would not be as complex as this dancing animation that a normal person did to a Sims 4 model. And yea even the hair animates! Something that we had in TS2 and the developers decided to ditch it in TS3 and TS4. This franchise has been going backwards heavily
Okay if my Sim could dance like that and have motion in their hair (Props to the person that made the video it is stunning)..I might rethink my views on game 4. To make money you need to spend money ..The creator of this 1 single video brought life to game 4 Sim... There are other games that bring life to their pixel people... This video .. It made me drop my jaw how smooth and real the game 4 could of been.. Even in its cartoon state that little video make the Sim feel real and interesting and I wanted more...
That movement including hair was just stunning..I am not sure if anyone will get what I mean.. that is okay..because I can't describe what that simple video did for me and my feelings on it compared to the slap stick silly toons that are in Sims 4..
I guess the creator made me feel the emotions of the sim dancing...but it goes deeper but that will do for the simpler version...
Comments
What I wrote about "a few hundred" was an evaluation of the number of unsatisfied TS4 customers in this forum. You are probably right that there are a little more than that if your calculation also include people who don't visit the forum.
But this still isn't anything compared with the following statements from EA's CFO Blake Jorgenson who seems to explain differences of at least a hundred million dollars between two quarters with sales numbers from TS4:
"Guidance for our second quarter is for non-GAAP net revenue to be $1.075 billion, 12% lower than last year’s $1.22 billion. In this Q2, we are launching Madden NFL, FIFA, Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, NHL and NBA Live. While last year’s Q2 saw the launches of our major sports titles, it also included The Sims 4. In addition, FX presents a year-on-year impact of around $100 million to Q2 revenues.
Non–GAAP gross margin is forecasted to be 63.0%. Again, the main difference between this quarter and the year-ago quarter is the launch of The Sims 4."
So TS4 seems to have sold so well that it's release last year meant that EA's net revenue last year for July to September is expected to drop 12% from $1.22 billion to $1.075 billion for the same months this year. The difference between those numbers are actually $145 million.
I know that we still don't have exact numbers. But my point is that the revenue from TS4 still seems to be so high that purchases from people in this forum don't matter very much. (I doubt that that the people in this forum totally even have bought TS4 basegames for just one million dollars.) So EA still has no big problem about ignoring our writings here. Therefore I don't agree with people who seem to think that they can obtain anything with threats about not buying more Sims games until they get free toddlers and more - and I understand why the gurus just ignore us as long as people still think that such "threats" have any chance of working.
It is my belief that the folks saying they will not purchase are not making threats they are stating that they are that unhappy about the issue. Where I live, if the consumer doesn't like something, they do not purchase it. If they had liked it at one time, but changes turned them away, they state that will no longer purchase the product. IF a consumer care teams take the idea If consumers say negative things about my product; I will ignore them, then the consumer care team is missing a great opportunity for consumer feedback that could result in thier company developing a better product.
It is not me who says "No this is expensive"
It is the gurus!
A bear animation was called very expensive
A beard of a certain style expensive
A certain way of sitting on the lounge is very expensive
We are in 2015 and these expensive excuses are getting too old. Game budget has been definitely very much below all the previous sims games.
Heavy animation cut from the game due to this excuse!
I think it is a big shame when developers keep giving us the expensive excuse for animation when we see normal people can do wonders with animation.
I am sure bear animation would not be as complex as this dancing animation that a normal person did to a Sims 4 model. And yea even the hair animates! Something that we had in TS2 and the developers decided to ditch it in TS3 and TS4. This franchise has been going backwards heavily
Nice animation.
Something to keep in mind, however, is that fans have the opportunity to decide for themselves how much time and money to spend on a project. Employees do not have that opportunity. Then have focus assignments with a budget.
The processing requirements for a "sims level" simulation isn't all that much. Computers today are capable of much more than TS4 even begins to touch. TS2 simulation aspect was so far beyond what the TS4 has that its not even comparable, and it managed to do it on much older and severely less capable hardware. Adding TS2 level sim intelligence and interactions to TS4 wouldn't even be a blip on today's hardware.
It simply takes dedication from the developers to do it. I'm sure for them it would be more work, but hardware isn't even remotely the limiting factor in this case.
It's not just processing power, however, it is also available RAM and graphic abilities, as well as hard drive space.
lighting, texture, coded objects (clickable objects) can pull very heavily and RAM and graphics.
Edited to remove a double quote that keeps happening because I need a new mouse.
Anyone who denies the sheer numbers of dissatisfied players - in my view just hasn't been paying attention - never mind blind to the growing numbers now spread around the globe on Sims sites every where. You cannot go on a Sims 4 site anywhere now a days and not see the unrest and the people getting beyond weary - but outright fed up with waiting for things that never come. If anyone can not see it - they are in total denial. The flag ship is on fire in a bad way - and without the proper response to any big fire we all know what happens. Denial will not change that one iota - saying we are few does not wash when you have been riding this trail this entire past year no matter how hard someone tries to convince others - there comes a point when one in denial just has to omit they are wrong - the game is in trouble - and the very fact the one fighting so hard to say it isn't so - can't even enjoy the game themselves - is far more telling than any words anyone really has to say. If you cannot enjoy the game you highly defend - how the heck can you not see it going up in flames?
It's beyond a shame too - because not one of us want to see the Sims go up in flames or end. We've love this game for so long and so faithfully none of us ever could have imagined it would ever be treated so shallowly and disrespected like it has - never mind constantly getting no acceptable encouragement from it's creators, or anyone acknowledging something is actually being done to fix it. No comments are even more shallow than saying no comment - and don't even get me started on being reminded we are heard. When one does not "SEE" we are being heard - by the results not being in the game - over a year after we were first "heard" - the words mean nothing.
But it is bad enough we are actually fighting for the life of the Sims to make it great - to make it the game it was and can be, by including ALL play styles as it has been for the last 10 years - when the game went from being a good game to a great game - that everyone can enjoy.
The fact remains when someone persists in going in the wrong direction, and totally away from the road needed to travel on, they will just continue down an endless spiral to nowhere - and will never arrive at their sought out destination. Fact is if one needs to go east/west, and they keep moving north/south - they will never get anywhere but eventually reach the end of the line and possibly just fall off a cliff. You cannot climb a mountain by going around it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
There is a saying I am sure we have all heard - Excuses. Everybody has one.
But the truth around excuses is they get you no where. It is the one making the excuse to try and find acceptance for not completing what ever it was they did not complete. Excuses are flimsy things and to rely on something so shallow and flimsy is a bit like bordering on insanity. Excuse may work a few times - but after a while - they become just excuses. We know how far excuses get us if we keep relying on them almost anywhere in real life. You can get demoted or even fired in jobs - sometimes they don't even accept a single excuse - so it is rather chancey to even use an excuse for not doing what is expected of you. In school excuses get you a zero, detention, maybe even thrown out of school when you use them one too many times. it is just plain better not to have to use an excuse and own up to why you didn't get the job done that should have been done to start with.
Even the best excuses are never good enough. Not very long ago my husband was in an accident during an ice storming blizzard that resulted in putting him in the hospital with a broken hip which had to be replaced and eventual months of therapy. You can definitely say he had a good excuse not to be at work It was not even his fault, and it was his day off from work the day it happened. But he lost his job because no matter how good his excuse was the company he worked for needed him at work to man their servers and computerized equipment or no body else worked - and of course he was in the hospital. So even the best excuses - the ones you can do nothing about makes one excused and accepted - why on earth should we accept excuse after shallow excuse for missing things in a game?
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
there are no toddlers
telemetry forbids them
your mute vision reigns
When I bought the base game and found how much was missing from it, I decided I wouldn't spend any more on the Sims 4 as I can not, at this stage, imaging the addition of extra content will ever make it into a game that I would want to play. Then I saw the boycott thread and I said I would boycott the next EP to support those who were trying to show just how unhappy many of us are with the game in its current state.
As a result of that boycott many simmers have expressed relief that they now realise they are not alone in their feelings about the Sims 4 game.
The boycott thread has made them feel it is not something missing in them but that the game is shallow and unsuited to the preferred playstyles of many people. Therefore, in my opinion the boycott succeeded regardless of the effect it may have on the future of the Sims 4 game or on EA.
People who were hanging in there hoping they might one day 'get it' have now decided to go back to play other iterations of the game while they watch and wait to see if EA ever does anything about fixing the Sims 4 to turn it into a game they would enjoy playing. And in the meantime they are buying more of other Sims games so EA is still making money from a lot of us. It just isn't going into The Sims 4 which is where most of the boycotting people would have preferred to be spending their money.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuW44b3uCMtCSaq4gwC8EZg
However, and of course this is just my opinion, but I doubt those higher sales can be maintained. There are too many players who have given up, and more continue to give up each day. I know I'm only one person, but I bought OR and GTW because I'm a Simmer and really tried to like this game, but haven't purchased anything since and won't be buying any of it. There are others out there who have bought the game but aren't buying anything now.
Personally I went back to playing TS3, since they couldn't be bothered to actually make an improved, upgraded game this time around.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I have a feeling your husband would have gotten to work if he could have and most certainly tried his best to get there. My parents always told me to do my best at whatever it was I decided to do. EA has not given me it's best with Sims 4. But somehow they think that it is their best or at least acceptable and that we should be happy with what we got. At least that's how I feel. Not only do I try and do my best but I don't settle. If I'm paying hard-earned money for a product it had better be a good one.
I understand your argument, but I think you are operating under a false assumption - that forum users are the only people who were disappointed with the game.
It is convenient to argue that everyone outside of the forums is happy, since it is not something you can measure. However, the chances of that being true are slim. The disappointment with TS4 is not exclusive to the forums - you can see it on almost every feedback channel available. So as much as you may wish it was true, I don't think we're dealing with just a "few hundred" unhappy players.
While you used EA's financial report in an attempt to enhance your view, I think it did the opposite. The business model for the Sims has always been based around add-ons, whether it was Expansions, DLC, or whatever. The real potential of the franchise has never been the base game. Therefore, I think a reduced earnings forecast for this quarter would suggest that the sales for TS4 EP's and GP's have been weak. If that's true, it means that players are not sticking with the game, or don't like it enough to spend more money to enhance it.
With the Sims, EA made their money off the hardcore players who would spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars over the lifecycle of the game (a market who's views, I believe, are well represented in places like the forums). So I disagree that EA only cares about the casual pre-teen market. I think what really happened is that they underestimated how upset the hardcore fanbase would get. I think they expected it to blow over, and it hasn't.
I totally agree @Gthompkins48 and ive seen disappointment everywhere too. Facebook is worse than here!
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
1. Before launch there were controversies around The Sims 4
Regarding changing from online to offline (if it is true) and toddlers, lots of game companies change the strategies they use in the development of a game during its early development. If EA is wrong than all gaming companies are wrong because a lot do this. I don't see what the big uproar was about.
EA is a publicly traded company so the developers are only going to release information when they legally can not when players demand the information to be released. Also, they have to market the game like any other company has to market a product. They are not an indie development company so their strategies for releasing information is going to be different. There really is no point in complaining that not enough information is released when they are going to release it when they can and they want.
2. The ‘Vision’
The vision of the game is basically clear. They were going for quirky and wilder stories with The Sims 4. Also, I wouldn't consider The Sims 4 a true sequel because the game is a sandbox game and it doesn't follow a storyline. It is more like the 4th installment in a series.
3. Giving funds from The Sims to Titanfall and other titles
Lot of businesses use their profits to fund other projects. This is how a company grows. I don't see the problem with this. In fact, it would be bad business for a company like EA to not expand its offerings.
To better make this argument, you should have complained that the employees should take a pay-cut and receive less pay. The biggest expense for companies are usually employee expenses. Since The Sims 3 employment expenses have risen in California as well as utility and other expenses. The best response would be for the company to move to a cheaper state, the company to layoff employees, or the company to cut employee wages.
4. ‘A truly stable base game’
Not every player has had a game riddled with bugs. The game is stable and that means that it won't have a ton of random crashes caused by bugs. None of the glitches you mentioned cause the game to crash constantly. The game runs stable on my computer. I haven't even had the incest bug you mentioned.
The issue with culling is the game is designed to run on older computers. It isn't a glitch it is rather an annoyance to players. Glitches and annoyances are two different things. The feature works as intended but since players don't like how the feature works, the developers are looking to improve it. I don't see the big issue.
5. ‘We are listening’
Their customer base expands to more than who is on the forums. I do think the SimGurus are listening to players but they aren't going to make a game that every player is going to enjoy. There are also several group of players with conflicting opinions. Just because a group does not feel like they are being listened to right now, does not mean they will never be listened to or they are just being ignored.
Also, EA does not have to act on every opinion the fans throw out at them. If they weren't listening to players, they would not send out surveys and ask opinions on certain issues on the forums. Also, you contradict yourself because in #5 you said the developers were looking into the culling issue. If they weren't listening, they would not be looking into a game mechanic that is working like it is supposed to work.
6. It goes far beyond ‘just’ toddlers, Create a Style or the myriad of other missing content
There is no proof all these features were cut from development. The list are features that we had in previous Sims games that were not appearing in The Sims 4. The developers said from the beginning there would be no Create-a-Style and never said a lot of the other features would be in the base game. You are misdirecting people making it seem like the developers promised these features and then removed them which was not the case. Also, The Sims 4 actually had more features than The Sims 3 base game.
7. Simulation
This is basically an opinion. I disagree with this because I can tell my Sims apart based on their traits and emotions. It could be better but to say all Sims act the same is a huge stretch. I also haven't seen a ton of children wandering my world during school hours. When my Sims stays home from school, most of their friends are usually unavailable during school hours. Also, I really don't care if children wander the streets during school hours because maybe they took a vacation day from school like my Sims.
8. ‘Modder friendly’
You aren't really clear on your argument here. What versions of the game are unplayable with mods? What do you mean by EA is packing up?
9. All customers who give you feedback should be appreciated
This is more of an opinion and it isn't realistic. No company does this so why should EA?
10. The legacy of SimCity 2013
SimCity 2013 and The Sims 4 are two different games made by two different teams. I also just checked my SimCity game and the online features still work and it is not shut down. The statement that the game was shut down is very misleading. Also, I don't understand the comparison when The Sims 4 doesn't have any online features that will impact gameplay.
The game is not perfect but no game is perfect. For what the game has to offer, I think it is a pretty good game.
Something that has surprised me is the number of New Members with Old accounts why say they've been reading the forums for years but have never posted before and are now posting for the first time in their lives to express their negative feelings about the Sims 4.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuW44b3uCMtCSaq4gwC8EZg
Which was me. I rarely posted pre TS4.
@SweetieTreats thank you for your feedback.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Not exactly. You are still thinking of closed worlds and keeping things the way they are now. I was thinking more of getting with the times and bringing back an open world. The processing power it took to run TS3, because of how the data for the whole town is loaded and stored in the memory all at once took a toll. That's why most people complain about lag and stuttering or crashing. They simply didn't have the processor to run it. Not to mention that the devs did a poor job at managing it and when they created the base game, they weren't thinking about the impact of expansions and store content.
TS4 is just a tablet game in disguise. There isn't much to it and what little there is is not complex enough to store. The memory is dumped every time you travel through a load screen. That's also when culling happens and when the game makes changes in the background. This is a very simple game.
In regards to #3:
The problem with Sim money being funneled into other projects is that Maxis proceeded to claim that they were forced to leave out content because of resources and funding. This is a slap in the face to fans who have spent billions of dollars on the franchise. I don't think it is appropriate to use revenues for other projects while simultaneously under-funding the future games.
Hah, like me. I think I had two or three posts before Sims 4. I was definitely a new member when Sims 4 came out.
Fair points. I say, though, that it's not enough to judge a game only by what it offers, but by what it could have offered, and didn't.
@sparkfairy1
Thanks for that article, you nailed it!
Thank you @JoxerTM22
Thank you for giving the full point of that section as intended @GThompkins48
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Okay if my Sim could dance like that and have motion in their hair (Props to the person that made the video it is stunning)..I might rethink my views on game 4. To make money you need to spend money ..The creator of this 1 single video brought life to game 4 Sim... There are other games that bring life to their pixel people... This video .. It made me drop my jaw how smooth and real the game 4 could of been.. Even in its cartoon state that little video make the Sim feel real and interesting and I wanted more...
That movement including hair was just stunning..I am not sure if anyone will get what I mean.. that is okay..because I can't describe what that simple video did for me and my feelings on it compared to the slap stick silly toons that are in Sims 4..
I guess the creator made me feel the emotions of the sim dancing...but it goes deeper but that will do for the simpler version...