I think the intention behind this move may have been good, but the outcome was not. In an apparent effort to stand up for and ostracized and marginalized group they made them feel even more so. So I think they should admit their mistake and reverse the decision, also Origin lumps Belarus, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan into the same region as Russia and so now they’re also left out even if they don’t have the same laws. It just seems really unfair and also wrong that a game that claims to pride itself on inclusion for all would exclude so many. ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🖤🤍🤎
I think you may be misunderstanding the situation. The Sims Team has taken a woke stance by refusing to release the pack to Russia because they have laws restricting LGBT+ in advertising. Russian simmers are sharing their understanding of these laws and it’s confusing where the problem lies because the Sims Team hasn’t been explicit in exactly who is pressuring them to “erase” Cam and Dom from the cover. There’s also a question of where it is actually necessary to do so, because the Russian law only applies to advertising to minors, but this game is already rated 18+ over there and they’re advertising it on Origin. So why not release it if they can advertise it?
The woke side wants to withhold this pack from simmers in an attempt to protest the Russian law and refuse to censor LGBT+ imagery. Because activism is more important to them than simmers being able to access this pack. But apparently the homophobes in Russia are celebrating alongside them in this decision. Huh.
My Wedding Stories is going to be sold in Ukraine, and there is Russian localization (at least the game is in the language option). EA Cade (one of the the forum mods) said there is Russian localization, whatever that means, but he can’t say anything else.
I wonder if there is a deeper lawsuit-like situation regarding My Wedding Stories and EA gurus just can’t say anything in detail right now.
It’s why I’m waiting for a statement.
EA is surely seeing the controversy and tenseness of the Sims community all over social media, so they have to say something eventually (and if lawyers or whoever’s holding back in communications would allow them).
I don't even know what 'woke' means, except as it pertains to sleeping...
Most of the time when I see people use the term, all I really see is a choice between being a decent, compassionate human-being or not.
Exactly. Many who use the term mean it as a sneer or insult.
Woke nowadays refers to being aware or well informed in a political or cultural sense, especially regarding issues surrounding marginalized communities.
I don't even know what 'woke' means, except as it pertains to sleeping...
Most of the time when I see people use the term, all I really see is a choice between being a decent, compassionate human-being or not.
Could not agree more. Same thing with "Politically correct." I usually see it as being compassionate and understanding towards people instead of being selfish and rude.
Originally, I supported the decision based on the information they gave, tbh. I think the ban is dangerous and incites hatred to LGBTQ+ people and violates freedom of speech. Also, we need to protect our storytellers, both their stories and the freedom they used to create and express them, and we need to protect their stories from being altered in foreign markets. We can't sacrifice those democratic rights just to sell games in other countries. I find it very strange how playing this game is being presented as if it is saving LGBTQ+ people in Russia, that's what Refugee and Asylum protection does, not playing a game. Also, Russia put a rocket in outer space. They know how to make their own video games. They don't need the game, they just want it, and I totally understand, it's the best game.
I absolutely 100% don't think the company should have to change their story to sell the game in another country. I studied literature at university and know how hard was the struggle to express not just LGBTQ+ stories, but any story that offended some ruling political party. Authors were killed, beaten, jailed and imprisoned in mental hospitals, riots and uprising happened over free speech in Western Europe in the previous centuries. It's not just a Canadian white picket fence privilege as one Russian put it in another topic, it's actually a right that was fought and died for and needs to be protected here. But I don't think we should impose our culture or laws on Russia or other countries. They should choose if they want to import our products and not try to alter or erase the creative contents to suit their national, cultural, religious or political ideals. I'm happy we take all LGBTQ+ refugees to Canada from Russia, and of course they are a very small percentage compared to our LGBTQ+ refugees from Muslim countries, actually I've only met gay Muslim refugees, so I get the anger from Russians over that. You just can't compare the two situations, but we don't discriminate in the application process here between Russians suffering from the ban and Muslims in places where homosexuality is illegal.
All that being said, the Russian simmers are saying it is just the picture on the box that needed to be changed. To me, that is just packaging and not the actual story. I don't understand why they don't want to use a picture of a wedding cake or wedding rings so Russians can enjoy the game too. To me, this is just wrapping that gets tossed out after purchase. I really wish they would explain in more detail why they made this decision, but obviously that doesn't seem to be going to happen. In their letter they opined dramatically about how their story, and all the stories of all the Simmers in all the whole world, and the creative freedom to tell them, was threatened by Russia ... and I was crying, believe me, until the Russians showed up to say they are exaggerating wildly. I just don't understand how the story or the freedom to create it was threatened. I can't support a decision I don't fully understand or that seems very extreme and aggressive. If this is just to apply economic pressure to help push the ban being lifted, I also don't think that can work. The majority of Russians support him. Putin is just laughing at us.
I'm so sorry for the Russians who can't play this game. I hope once all this blows over they quietly change their mind and send the game to Russia with a picture of a Russian wedding cake on it, and if not, at least explain better why they can't.
This seems unnecessary and it’s definitely unkind. It’s not about being “woke” it’s simply about accepting people as they are. All anyone wants no matter their race, gender, religion or orientation it to feel seen, heard, and accepted. There’s room for all of us to belong and have our voices heard.
My Wedding Stories is going to be sold in Ukraine, and there is Russian localization (at least the game is in the language option). EA Cade (one of the the forum mods) said there is Russian localization, whatever that means, but he can’t say anything else.
I wonder if there is a deeper lawsuit-like situation regarding My Wedding Stories and EA gurus just can’t say anything in detail right now.
It’s why I’m waiting for a statement.
EA is surely seeing the controversy and tenseness of the Sims community all over social media, so they have to say something eventually (and if lawyers or whoever’s holding back in communications would allow them).
From my memory of an ex simguru's twitter who worked on the pack prior to leaving, there was already a bit of work done towards getting it ready for release for the russian version of the pack prior to the decision to opt out. I dont know the exact details of what work was specifically done, but I think localization/translation for the Russian language of the game text was one of them. Basically work that separate departments do in advance or alongside a pack's development.
The Russian translation will be available upon release (Im assuming you can change it via Origin), just the pack won't be available to Russian players specifically.
Edit: as for reason of omittance, imo its more likely contract restrictions (can only say so much on certain developing or soon to be released projects). They're probably going to wait until the pack is released to give any further information on it, *if* they decide to do so at all.
As a poster in another thread asked, how would people react if a country required them to erase black people from the advertising and cover?
(I'm not comparing one type of hate to the other - racism is awful in the US. I'm only saying that anti-LGTBQ behaviour should be called out.)
They don't just decide these things in the marketing department. They do have lawyers who are well-versed in the laws of the countries in which they sell the product.
However, it could be US that has the laws that would be violated. There is no federal law protecting LGTBQ people, but there was a significant US Supreme Court decision last year, and EA might be affected by an executive order. Finally, California does have laws protecting LGTBQ people, and I expect that this would extend to a non-LGTBQ person being asked to do something they felt was discriminatory.
To go back to a cover in which black people are erased, I absolutely expect that I could refuse to do that because it would be hostile toward my African-American co-workers, and I'd win in court if my employer took action against me. An employer that actually cares about an inclusive environment isn't going to let it get to a court case because it isn't going to ask its employees to do that in the first place.
This isnt a fair comparison for multiple reasons but the main thing I have to say is that according to various Russian simmers; the cover really shouldn't be an issue as long as it has an 18+ age rating (which it does). In fact, people on twitter have posted getting advertisements for the pack on their Russian origin page. A pack theyre not going to even be able to buy.
There could be other aspects at play, but we've gotten no official explanation. The statement they released is too vague.
How is this not a fair comparison? I think this is exactly the right question.
Even if EA doesn't have to change anything, the acceptance of the 18+ verdict alone is giving in to a scandalous narrative: that the lgbt content the creators made could be rightfully seen as dirty and dangerous. They have every right in the world to refuse this.
The strange and dubious side of EA's decision is however that they obviously didn't care about this in the recent 8 years. Why now? That's what they have to explain.
I really have to question what it was that made them make this decision. Whatever it was, excluding an entire country of people sounds like way too high of a price to pay for getting a pack made, no matter what content that was in it.
Are you serious? All the developers would have to do is rate it 18+ in order to release it in Russia, I'm sorry but voting no for simmers to play a pack ? really
Are you serious? All the developers would have to do is rate it 18+ in order to release it in Russia, I'm sorry but voting no for simmers to play a pack ? really
You start a poll and then criticize the participants for giving the "wrong" answer ? Not really democratic. 😉
I think this whole thing illustrates the skepticism towards ‘woke’ activism. People who don’t identify as ‘woke’ don’t necessarily disagree with the ideals in question, but in the way it’s being handled. It’s not:
Are you serious? All the developers would have to do is rate it 18+ in order to release it in Russia, I'm sorry but voting no for simmers to play a pack ? really
You start a poll and then criticize the participants for giving the "wrong" answer ? Not really democratic. 😉
You had to put 2 options, good job I'm not politician 😆 and I'm kind of curious why someone would vote no
I remember when that stupid word was some obscure graffiti I'd just so happened to catch a glimpse of.
I remember when "incel" was a shortening, and not a criticism.
I remember when "misogyny" was a word I'd never seen used outside of Webster's dictionary.
The terms have wound up in a weird place wherein they are lobbied like grenades at anyone who says something some specific group doesn't like, even if it doesn't fall under what one would reasonably associate with such. The levels of "reaching" people on the internet do when they don't particularly like something, is akin to the abilities of Reed Richards.
As for my reasoning, I want to see EA suffer, and it's a piece of art that they're withholding. Art shouldn't be withheld, as it is the love-child of dreams and imagination. It's bad enough things are behind paywalls (and worse still, that such an interactive art form has such a short shelf-life), but for some company to arbitrarily withhold the ability to at least rent it (as we do with games these days) is something I can't stand.
I'm not a decent human being. I'm an idealist whose canvas is in within The Sims.
Check out my 'Simming Tips' for detailed tips and tricks (TS4).
My Wedding Stories is going to be sold in Ukraine, and there is Russian localization (at least the game is in the language option). EA Cade (one of the the forum mods) said there is Russian localization, whatever that means, but he can’t say anything else.
I wonder if there is a deeper lawsuit-like situation regarding My Wedding Stories and EA gurus just can’t say anything in detail right now.
It’s why I’m waiting for a statement.
EA is surely seeing the controversy and tenseness of the Sims community all over social media, so they have to say something eventually (and if lawyers or whoever’s holding back in communications would allow them).
From my memory of an ex simguru's twitter who worked on the pack prior to leaving, there was already a bit of work done towards getting it ready for release for the russian version of the pack prior to the decision to opt out. I dont know the exact details of what work was specifically done, but I think localization/translation for the Russian language of the game text was one of them. Basically work that separate departments do in advance or alongside a pack's development.
The Russian translation will be available upon release (Im assuming you can change it via Origin), just the pack won't be available to Russian players specifically.
Edit: as for reason of omittance, imo its more likely contract restrictions (can only say so much on certain developing or soon to be released projects). They're probably going to wait until the pack is released to give any further information on it, *if* they decide to do so at all.
Yeah, I’m waiting for more information or an in-depth explanation of why this particular pack is causing problems.
Meanwhile, I’m staying neutral because I don’t want to get harassed or deal with hostile simmers on this issue.
For me: As long as the cover is not censored, then EA should try to figure out whatever other way they can do it in order to make the pack available to Russian players.
I assume there has to be a more deeper and more complex legal issue that is involved than just putting an 18+ Label, and the gurus are bound by US law (and the US corporation) not to say. I wonder if this is because this is the most explicit LGBT+ cover in Sims 4 ever…?
So, yeah, I’m just waiting to see if there is more to this issue.
I think @GalacticGal is entitled to her opinion. Rather one might see it as wrong or right doesn't matter because it's still HER OPINION. This a poll and it didn't have a disclaimer stating that you would be ganged up on if you chose the wrong answer. The majority agrees that it should be released to Russia including me. But not everyone has to agree. No one should get attacked for their opinions.
Are you serious? All the developers would have to do is rate it 18+ in order to release it in Russia, I'm sorry but voting no for simmers to play a pack ? really
You start a poll and then criticize the participants for giving the "wrong" answer ? Not really democratic. 😉
You had to put 2 options, good job I'm not politician 😆 and I'm kind of curious why someone would vote no
You could have kept the voting private or added an "undecided or other" option. If no's showed up then you could have asked why and maybe someone would answer you with their reasonings if they were inclined. Just a suggestion. Not a criticism.
"Every child matters. If we fail our children, we are bound to fail our present, our future, faith, cultures, and civilizations as well."
I think @GalacticGal is entitled to her opinion. Rather one might see it as wrong or right doesn't matter because it's still HER OPINION. This a poll and it didn't have a disclaimer stating that you would be ganged up on if you chose the wrong answer. The majority agrees that it should be released to Russia including me. But not everyone has to agree. No one should get attacked for their opinions.
People reacted to her comment. Not the fact that she voted no. She used the term in an insulting manner applied to everyone who had voted yes. So actually she attacked first.
I think Russia should get the pack.
In another thread, I feel that EA/Sims team can keep their cover, but just use a blacked out cover over the actual cover to fit in within the Russian laws.
Recently I've learned it's not the cover, all the developers would have to do is rate it 18+ the sims 4 is 18+ anyways in Russia @Umbreon12
I see, I don't see why they don't just rate it 18+ when it is already 18+ in Russia.
That makes it kind of worse, because the rating wouldn't change what the game is already there. So, that makes it even more confusing as to why they don't give it to the Russian players.
Comments
Are you serious?
The woke side wants to withhold this pack from simmers in an attempt to protest the Russian law and refuse to censor LGBT+ imagery. Because activism is more important to them than simmers being able to access this pack. But apparently the homophobes in Russia are celebrating alongside them in this decision. Huh.
I’m waiting to see EA’s explanation, though.
(She/her)
Wouldn't it be more "woke" if they stuck to their original decision?
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Most of the time when I see people use the term, all I really see is a choice between being a decent, compassionate human-being or not.
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I wonder if there is a deeper lawsuit-like situation regarding My Wedding Stories and EA gurus just can’t say anything in detail right now.
It’s why I’m waiting for a statement.
EA is surely seeing the controversy and tenseness of the Sims community all over social media, so they have to say something eventually (and if lawyers or whoever’s holding back in communications would allow them).
(She/her)
Exactly. Many who use the term mean it as a sneer or insult.
Woke nowadays refers to being aware or well informed in a political or cultural sense, especially regarding issues surrounding marginalized communities.
Could not agree more. Same thing with "Politically correct." I usually see it as being compassionate and understanding towards people instead of being selfish and rude.
I absolutely 100% don't think the company should have to change their story to sell the game in another country. I studied literature at university and know how hard was the struggle to express not just LGBTQ+ stories, but any story that offended some ruling political party. Authors were killed, beaten, jailed and imprisoned in mental hospitals, riots and uprising happened over free speech in Western Europe in the previous centuries. It's not just a Canadian white picket fence privilege as one Russian put it in another topic, it's actually a right that was fought and died for and needs to be protected here. But I don't think we should impose our culture or laws on Russia or other countries. They should choose if they want to import our products and not try to alter or erase the creative contents to suit their national, cultural, religious or political ideals. I'm happy we take all LGBTQ+ refugees to Canada from Russia, and of course they are a very small percentage compared to our LGBTQ+ refugees from Muslim countries, actually I've only met gay Muslim refugees, so I get the anger from Russians over that. You just can't compare the two situations, but we don't discriminate in the application process here between Russians suffering from the ban and Muslims in places where homosexuality is illegal.
All that being said, the Russian simmers are saying it is just the picture on the box that needed to be changed. To me, that is just packaging and not the actual story. I don't understand why they don't want to use a picture of a wedding cake or wedding rings so Russians can enjoy the game too. To me, this is just wrapping that gets tossed out after purchase. I really wish they would explain in more detail why they made this decision, but obviously that doesn't seem to be going to happen. In their letter they opined dramatically about how their story, and all the stories of all the Simmers in all the whole world, and the creative freedom to tell them, was threatened by Russia ... and I was crying, believe me, until the Russians showed up to say they are exaggerating wildly. I just don't understand how the story or the freedom to create it was threatened. I can't support a decision I don't fully understand or that seems very extreme and aggressive. If this is just to apply economic pressure to help push the ban being lifted, I also don't think that can work. The majority of Russians support him. Putin is just laughing at us.
I'm so sorry for the Russians who can't play this game. I hope once all this blows over they quietly change their mind and send the game to Russia with a picture of a Russian wedding cake on it, and if not, at least explain better why they can't.
This seems unnecessary and it’s definitely unkind. It’s not about being “woke” it’s simply about accepting people as they are. All anyone wants no matter their race, gender, religion or orientation it to feel seen, heard, and accepted. There’s room for all of us to belong and have our voices heard.
From my memory of an ex simguru's twitter who worked on the pack prior to leaving, there was already a bit of work done towards getting it ready for release for the russian version of the pack prior to the decision to opt out. I dont know the exact details of what work was specifically done, but I think localization/translation for the Russian language of the game text was one of them. Basically work that separate departments do in advance or alongside a pack's development.
The Russian translation will be available upon release (Im assuming you can change it via Origin), just the pack won't be available to Russian players specifically.
Edit: as for reason of omittance, imo its more likely contract restrictions (can only say so much on certain developing or soon to be released projects). They're probably going to wait until the pack is released to give any further information on it, *if* they decide to do so at all.
How is this not a fair comparison? I think this is exactly the right question.
Even if EA doesn't have to change anything, the acceptance of the 18+ verdict alone is giving in to a scandalous narrative: that the lgbt content the creators made could be rightfully seen as dirty and dangerous. They have every right in the world to refuse this.
The strange and dubious side of EA's decision is however that they obviously didn't care about this in the recent 8 years. Why now? That's what they have to explain.
Are you serious? All the developers would have to do is rate it 18+ in order to release it in Russia, I'm sorry but voting no for simmers to play a pack ? really
You start a poll and then criticize the participants for giving the "wrong" answer ? Not really democratic. 😉
… to me it’s about the measures one is willing to take to bring forth change.
You had to put 2 options, good job I'm not politician 😆 and I'm kind of curious why someone would vote no
I remember when "incel" was a shortening, and not a criticism.
I remember when "misogyny" was a word I'd never seen used outside of Webster's dictionary.
The terms have wound up in a weird place wherein they are lobbied like grenades at anyone who says something some specific group doesn't like, even if it doesn't fall under what one would reasonably associate with such. The levels of "reaching" people on the internet do when they don't particularly like something, is akin to the abilities of Reed Richards.
As for my reasoning, I want to see EA suffer, and it's a piece of art that they're withholding. Art shouldn't be withheld, as it is the love-child of dreams and imagination. It's bad enough things are behind paywalls (and worse still, that such an interactive art form has such a short shelf-life), but for some company to arbitrarily withhold the ability to at least rent it (as we do with games these days) is something I can't stand.
I'm not a decent human being. I'm an idealist whose canvas is in within The Sims.
Yeah, I’m waiting for more information or an in-depth explanation of why this particular pack is causing problems.
Meanwhile, I’m staying neutral because I don’t want to get harassed or deal with hostile simmers on this issue.
For me: As long as the cover is not censored, then EA should try to figure out whatever other way they can do it in order to make the pack available to Russian players.
I assume there has to be a more deeper and more complex legal issue that is involved than just putting an 18+ Label, and the gurus are bound by US law (and the US corporation) not to say. I wonder if this is because this is the most explicit LGBT+ cover in Sims 4 ever…?
So, yeah, I’m just waiting to see if there is more to this issue.
(She/her)
You could have kept the voting private or added an "undecided or other" option. If no's showed up then you could have asked why and maybe someone would answer you with their reasonings if they were inclined. Just a suggestion. Not a criticism.
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People reacted to her comment. Not the fact that she voted no. She used the term in an insulting manner applied to everyone who had voted yes. So actually she attacked first.
That makes it kind of worse, because the rating wouldn't change what the game is already there. So, that makes it even more confusing as to why they don't give it to the Russian players.