September 18 - Everyone ready for the Friday Highlight? It's ready for you here!

The unfortunate increase in Rabbit holes

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Comments

  • knuckledusterknuckleduster Posts: 1,257 Member
    It is funny how the older versions of the Sims never had to rely on rabbit holes and were far more engaging.

    I wonder why that is...
  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 1,599 Member
    edited September 17
    I stopped buying packs and playing Sims 3 because of rabbit holes. It was my biggest complaint about that game. The open world was cool, but I hated not being able to go into restaurants and other locations. The only rabbit hole I don't mind is the one for attending lectures. I usually play a single sim household because I like to build their families using NPCs they meet along the way, so it is super boring to sit there and wait for them to come out of places. I spent most of my game play with the clock sped all the way up. I spent more time watching people walk around, cars drive by, and my sim sleep than anything else. I went back to Sims 2 pretty quickly.

    TS3 basegame had all the rabbitholes, but the devs brought active versions of the bookstore, grocery, cinema, relic stores and other stuff in EPs (as early as the first EP, World Adventures) and the Sims 3 Store. Modders also contributed to making active restaurants and improved active stores. Zerbu also made a mod that turned all rabbithole careers active, whether Maxis-made or fan-made. You can even build a university or college right in your own hometowns with all the features of the university world so entire generations of a town can go to school together.

    So TS3 DID have active versions of all the rabbitholes. You just didn't realize it.


    All the customization of TS3 to make it the way I want is why I love that iteration the most. 😍❤🥰


    Just got my health certificate and police clearance! I get to go home to the US in 2 weeks!

    Daughtry - Home


  • popstarsleypopstarsley Posts: 1,025 Member
    The Sims team’s “explanations” for just about anything rarely add up. Too much PR spin on glitches and failed features! 🤯🤯🤯
  • izecsonizecson Posts: 1,539 Member
    I was also frustrated when they say the class is going to be rabbithole, we have loading screens everywhere yet they can implement class to be like a get to work career, what i even more disturbed with rabbithole in sims 4 is that it's dead silent, you dont hear anything, in sims 3 if your sims enter rabbithole such as hospital, you can hear its ambient sound, or when you enter school you can hear students pulling prank, or teacher do the teaching and writing in the chalkboard.
    When can we get personality system for TS4?
  • bookish_sammybookish_sammy Posts: 42 Member
    edited September 17
    TS3 basegame had all the rabbitholes, but the devs brought active versions of the bookstore, grocery, cinema, relic stores and other stuff in EPs (as early as the first EP, World Adventures) and the Sims 3 Store. Modders also contributed to making active restaurants and improved active stores. Zerbu also made a mod that turned all rabbithole careers active, whether Maxis-made or fan-made. You can even build a university or college right in your own hometowns with all the features of the university world so entire generations of a town can go to school together.

    So TS3 DID have active versions of all the rabbitholes. You just didn't realize it.

    All the customization of TS3 to make it the way I want is why I love that iteration the most. 😍❤🥰

    I owned World Adventures, Late Night, Generations, Pets, Seasons, University Life, and Barnacle Bay. I do remember the "restaurant" in Paris, but it was more like a cafeteria and didn't have waiters. It has been a long time since I played the game and lost my discs recently, so I am unable to go back to it or add the packs I never bought to see how much it changed. There were things I loved about it, but the rabbit holes were a big reason I gave up on it.
  • bookish_sammybookish_sammy Posts: 42 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    I was also frustrated when they say the class is going to be rabbithole, we have loading screens everywhere yet they can implement class to be like a get to work career, what i even more disturbed with rabbithole in sims 4 is that it's dead silent, you dont hear anything, in sims 3 if your sims enter rabbithole such as hospital, you can hear its ambient sound, or when you enter school you can hear students pulling prank, or teacher do the teaching and writing in the chalkboard.

    That was a cool feature of the Sims 3 rabbit holes. I will give them that.
  • PlayerSinger2010PlayerSinger2010 Posts: 2,448 Member
    I love rabbit holes! I love being able to shove my kids/teens off to school and focus on their parent/toddler siblings. And vice versa for parents/their kids.
  • BrittanyChick22BrittanyChick22 Posts: 2,049 Member
    edited September 17
    wrong post
    qHqq7Xx.png


  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 1,599 Member
    edited September 17
    TS3 basegame had all the rabbitholes, but the devs brought active versions of the bookstore, grocery, cinema, relic stores and other stuff in EPs (as early as the first EP, World Adventures) and the Sims 3 Store. Modders also contributed to making active restaurants and improved active stores. Zerbu also made a mod that turned all rabbithole careers active, whether Maxis-made or fan-made. You can even build a university or college right in your own hometowns with all the features of the university world so entire generations of a town can go to school together.

    So TS3 DID have active versions of all the rabbitholes. You just didn't realize it.

    All the customization of TS3 to make it the way I want is why I love that iteration the most. 😍❤🥰

    I owned World Adventures, Late Night, Generations, Pets, Seasons, University Life, and Barnacle Bay. I do remember the "restaurant" in Paris, but it was more like a cafeteria and didn't have waiters. It has been a long time since I played the game and lost my discs recently, so I am unable to go back to it or add the packs I never bought to see how much it changed. There were things I loved about it, but the rabbit holes were a big reason I gave up on it.


    Just from the packs you bought, you already had the items you needed to set up a bookstore and grocery. For the restaurants, all you needed was the rabbithole rugs or doors for the bistro or diner and a few mods to help set up an active restaurant with a waiter.

    I'll write up tutorials for them when I get back to the States. They're really fun and add to the immersion of the game!


    Just got my health certificate and police clearance! I get to go home to the US in 2 weeks!

    Daughtry - Home


  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,397 Member
    I love rabbit holes! I love being able to shove my kids/teens off to school and focus on their parent/toddler siblings. And vice versa for parents/their kids.

    @PlayerSinger2010 Again this is not about school or classes. It's about the fact that even though rabbit holes are easy to make and not time comsuming the Sims team doesn't seem to be investing that time into giving us more than just 3 places to go in a University pack...

    Also an option to either go with your sim or let them go alone is a good compromise but the team won't do that either.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,028 Member
    It is funny how the older versions of the Sims never had to rely on rabbit holes and were far more engaging.

    I wonder why that is...

    This statement is half true. TS3 was arguably more engaging (than TS4) however, it is heavily reliant on rabbit holes. The base game is nothing but rabbit holes and some packs add features later but that game was built on them. ;)
    Origin ID: Peapod79
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,397 Member
    Camkat wrote: »
    It is funny how the older versions of the Sims never had to rely on rabbit holes and were far more engaging.

    I wonder why that is...

    This statement is half true. TS3 was arguably more engaging (than TS4) however, it is heavily reliant on rabbit holes. The base game is nothing but rabbit holes and some packs add features later but that game was built on them. ;)

    @Camkat At least it had places to go and explore so that made up for the rabbit holes really. Even the base game, which had several rabbit holes, had some active lots as well.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 3,948 Member
    I personally am fine with the University rabbit classes, I couldn't imagine having to sit thru that, I would be as bored as in IRL school. Same reason I 99% of the time never have active careers because boooooooooooooooooooring.

    IMHO of course.

    I also absolutely loathed you had to go buy stuff in Sims 2. I love just adding clothes, for free, in CAS instead of having to go to a clothes store.
    Origin ID: A_Bearded_Geek
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 1,562 Member
    edited September 17
    amberlunez wrote: »
    I was disappointed in that, as well as a lot of the 'explore' mode options (using the rocket, going through caves in Sulani, etc). I get that seeing everything is not feasible, but it's like every cool thing in a new pack is something that you only experience through really basic text notifications.

    I don’t mind rabbit holes so much, including the rocket/ space ships. There is a chance the rocket will send you to Sixam if you have GTW installed.
    Chazzzy wrote: »
    I adore the rabbit holes. The last thing I wanna do is control my Sims at every single moment. I very much like that I can send them off somewhere and do other things with other Sims.

    I find it great that you guys like rabbit holes. I personally don't but this is not why I made this thread. I wrote this because if you remember when the Sims 4 was released the team promised us that since they have reduced to amount of openess in the game and included the loading screens they will be able to do so much more in the active lots than in previous games, make them more interactive and complex.
    A rabbit hole unfortunately doesn't fit the definition of interactive, so my question is why aren't we getting what they said we would?

    I made this thread not as a why to ask people if they like the rabbit holes or not (which of course everyone is free to express anyway, I have nothing against that) but I would also like an answer as to why, in a game so restricted (loading screens), are we getting more restrictions (rabbit holes) as well?

    I could be totally wrong but it is my opinion that the reason is just limitations due to the engine especially as the game grows. I think in the beginning they didn't realize exactly how limited until it kept growing and naturally things get more complicated. We could not even have real soccer. I'm a bit dissapointed they just kick it back and forth. And then add deadlines, budgets and limited animators on top of that.
    That's why I "believe" the team always delivers the best that they can according to what they are working with.

    I think rabbit holes only work in an open world. I don't like them myself.

    Btw I think batu was an exception for Disney. I don't think we will see that many rabbit holes in one pack in the future.
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 1,397 Member
    amberlunez wrote: »
    I was disappointed in that, as well as a lot of the 'explore' mode options (using the rocket, going through caves in Sulani, etc). I get that seeing everything is not feasible, but it's like every cool thing in a new pack is something that you only experience through really basic text notifications.

    I don’t mind rabbit holes so much, including the rocket/ space ships. There is a chance the rocket will send you to Sixam if you have GTW installed.
    Chazzzy wrote: »
    I adore the rabbit holes. The last thing I wanna do is control my Sims at every single moment. I very much like that I can send them off somewhere and do other things with other Sims.

    I find it great that you guys like rabbit holes. I personally don't but this is not why I made this thread. I wrote this because if you remember when the Sims 4 was released the team promised us that since they have reduced to amount of openess in the game and included the loading screens they will be able to do so much more in the active lots than in previous games, make them more interactive and complex.
    A rabbit hole unfortunately doesn't fit the definition of interactive, so my question is why aren't we getting what they said we would?

    I made this thread not as a why to ask people if they like the rabbit holes or not (which of course everyone is free to express anyway, I have nothing against that) but I would also like an answer as to why, in a game so restricted (loading screens), are we getting more restrictions (rabbit holes) as well?

    I could be totally wrong but it is my opinion that the reason is just limitations due to the engine especially as the game grows. I think in the beginning they didn't realize exactly how limited until it kept growing and naturally things get more complicated. We could not even have real soccer. I'm a bit dissapointed they just kick it back and forth. And then add deadlines, budgets and limited animators on top of that.
    That's why I "believe" the team always delivers the best that they can according to what they are working with.

    I think rabbit holes only work in an open world. I don't like them myself.

    @Babykittyjade I think this could totally be the case. I'm just dissapointed because in 2014 they said the restrictions the game has will let them expand in other areas like the open-world but I guess what they didn't see coming was the engine crumbling.

    I wish a Guru would talk to us about this. And not in PR talk.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • Lady_BalloraLady_Ballora Posts: 455 Member
    JACKIEJOY wrote: »
    My opinion, the engine is overloaded/cracking. Some how I don't think that 6 years ago when they repurposed this engine that they planned on so much content over such a long time, or that they coded for all this stuff. Its just going to get worse until they hit the wall. Same reason for all the bugs we deal with.


    I agree 100% with Jackie...the engine is becoming overloaded,and it's showing its age. Who can even play the game with all the bugs and glitches piling on? I know some people really like Sims 4,but unless EA/Maxis gives the engine a complete overhaul(which I don't see happening),then it's pointless to keep Sims 4 going on for more years. The frequent patches only break mods and custom content,and wind up giving us more bugs and problems,which require MORE patches and gives us MORE bugs.

    A little off-topic here,but Nintendo has completely pulled the plug on the 3DS/2DS...EA/Maxis will soon have to pull the plug on Sims 4 an give us Sims 5. Hopefully,Sims 5 will be like Sims 1-3 and give players all the fun of the older Sims games.



    Why do you hide inside these walls?
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,927 Member
    Camkat wrote: »
    It is funny how the older versions of the Sims never had to rely on rabbit holes and were far more engaging.

    I wonder why that is...

    This statement is half true. TS3 was arguably more engaging (than TS4) however, it is heavily reliant on rabbit holes. The base game is nothing but rabbit holes and some packs add features later but that game was built on them. ;)

    Literally every single Sims game relies on rabbit holes for the exact same things. Sims 3 had physical locations for them, the rest don’t, but that hardly means the whole game was built on rabbit holes. You are correct when you said they listened and developed actual locations for a few of them though.
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 2,117 Member

    @Babykittyjade I think this could totally be the case. I'm just dissapointed because in 2014 they said the restrictions the game has will let them expand in other areas like the open-world but I guess what they didn't see coming was the engine crumbling.

    I wish a Guru would talk to us about this. And not in PR talk.

    I agree that being honest could go a long way. All I want to know is: are they really working to improve the foundation of the game (the Sims) and if so, what are they doing to improve it.

    No more excuses and empty platitudes. What I genuinely need is information.
    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • RBLamberthRBLamberth Posts: 12 New Member
    > @bookish_sammy said:
    > What they did with Batuu is unacceptable. I won't buy a single pack from this point forward if they continue to give us worlds where we can't enter more buildings. I'm still mad that they couldn't even bother to give our sims a vacation house on Batuu that isn't a rabbit hole. There is no excuse for that. It is one of the many reasons I won't buy that pack.

    I bought the Star Wars gamepack because i could get it cheap with an expansion and a stuff pack in a build a bundle. I thought Star Wars would have a real vacation home. Maybe with some of the residents (which would be fun) but the fact that almost every build is a rabbit hole! It just disappoint me.....

    i was really excited to see how the sims team would build the vacationhomes, which beds they would use, counters and more. But apparently there's only 3, 4 lots (sorry if i'm wrong) make me feel like they didn't even bother and it was EA trying to earn the money they lost on some of the other star wars games.
  • bookish_sammybookish_sammy Posts: 42 Member
    @RBLamberth I'm sorry that you're disappointed with the pack. I agree, it would have been nice to see what a Star Wars vacation home would look like.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,001 Member
    edited September 19
    I was extremely harsh about TS3 rabbit holes in the base because there were only three or four open lots possible in the base IIRC. Museum, Library, and Gyms (?). No bars, restaurants, nightclubs, shopping centers, etc. Oh, and don't forget an overload (in my opinion) of park recreation without much to do in them. :/

    However, career rabbit holes were not a bad idea, since Sims just walk off a lot in TS1 and TS2. But it wasn't the rabbit hole itself that bothered me, I didn't want to even see or hear my Sims when they have to go to work. Yes, I want rid of them, lol. I didn't want to have to care for any Sim while I was taking care of a Sim still at home. With rabbit holes as actual buildings it was annoying to me that I hadn't actually gotten rid of some of the Sims in the home and they were still in the world. lol I wanted them to go off world. Color me weird but I liked it that way to get some Sims out of my hair and they stay off world until an appointed time to come home. And of course I was peeved for not even having a place to shop for clothes, and or groceries like in TS2's base. (Open lots).

    But I was still in aw of watching townies/neighbors leaving their homes and going off to work or the grocery store, so I stuck with that base until they decided to make WA, and I quit for a very long time. Until LN, I think. Or maybe it was a pre generation patch to check out the memory system in that patch, which I found disappointing. Then maybe I waited til LN or vice versa.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


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