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Do you still have hope?

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  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 1,317 Member
    Yes i feel like this will be fixed
    Cynna wrote: »

    I wasn't properly clear, I apologize.

    What I was talking about wasn't the underlying engine and what it can and cannot handle in terms of things like snow depth or multitasking or world sizes (because yeah, there are definitely things that should work better).
    I meant the initial code which, as far as I'm aware, has been repurposed from what was initially supposed to be an MMO game which would have a whole different base - there's a vast difference between a game that expects constant player input and doesn't have the mechanics at the core for autonomous story progression for NPCs (and even played Sims) when none of them were originally *meant to* have that ability.

    The fact that that's what, supposedly, happened is why I can see them not admitting it. That move (I mean, someone could prove me wrong if that's not what happened but everything in the game tells me it was) was absolutely a bad one.

    Using your examples though: there's a difference between fixing something that is purely aesthetic like the design of a specific item and something that would affect a much bigger amount of things in the game: animations in the deeper snow, interaction with existing objects etc. The engine making things easier doesn't mean everything is easy. (and for what it's worth, I think the counter thing was a case of the wrong items being put into the game at first, which is a whole different kind of mess up that shouldn't have happened and has a lot to do with outsourcing of certain elements of the development).

    I like to refer to the corporate as TPTB |(The Powers That Be), which I picked up years ago in a non-gaming media. And it never has a good connotation because they never do have the end consumer in mind, only the bottom line. It's, unfortunately, something that's been happening for a long time and just keeps getting worse.
    To clarify: I'm not either excusing it or existentially accepting it as inevitable in terms of it never changing again. Just being aware of the probable (very likely) reasons behind what's ultimately business decisions.

    Honesty would indeed be nice, I agree. Indie games, where the creators and owners are not quite as bound by the "think of the bottom line" restrictions, tend to be a lot more forthright about the ability and limitations of their product. In a way, I guess I'm resigned to a degree of "it is what it is" when it comes to that: a straightforward "no" is always seen as a failure in those kind of circles (EA, other big producers, big companies in general), for all the wrong reasons.

    I agree about the game's origin. However, despite that well known 'secret', the origin of the game and the sudden change of horses midstream has not stopped EA reps from continuing to sell TS4 as the best of an impressive bunch. If it can't accomplish the foundational mechanics that older games have been able to manage or replace them with something better, it really isn't.

    The continued dishonesty is as disheartening as the lack of substantive gameplay. That's why I decided to start focusing on indie games and leaving so-called AAA games alone. The Sims series is the last one that I've stubbornly tried to hold onto. Yet, I don't hold much hope for this installment or any installment in the future.

    That's understandable. I tend to not listen much to things that are inevitably marketing spin (don't always succeed but at least I try) because that's what advertising always was and will be. The business machine is one that's hard to derail, unfortunately, so it'll take a while for change to happen, even if the push against it has been going on for a while.

    It's hard to let go of the Sims, mostly because there really isn't anything else like that out there. Yet.
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 1,925 Member
    No it’s to late

    That's understandable. I tend to not listen much to things that are inevitably marketing spin (don't always succeed but at least I try) because that's what advertising always was and will be. The business machine is one that's hard to derail, unfortunately, so it'll take a while for change to happen, even if the push against it has been going on for a while.

    It's hard to let go of the Sims, mostly because there really isn't anything else like that out there. Yet.

    The 'Yet' is what I'm counting on. :)

    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • bekkasanbekkasan Posts: 8,074 Member
    No it’s to late

    @Cynna
    I disagree with the idea that there is nothing that we, as consumers, can do. Consumers built this industry. We can also starve it.

    I foresee that, rather than being forced to play cloud-based games, people will start moving more towards indie games or raiding bargain bins and eBay for older titles that have cracks and patches to allow them to work on present-day OS's. Or, in order to get their gaming fix, folks might start dusting off those old PCs and boxed games that they've had stocked away in attics or basements.

    I'd give up gaming on PC altogether if it meant having to be constantly attached to the internet and having someone else in total control of my saves and/or gameplay. Especially since I'm the kind of player that really enjoys the added dimension that mods can bring to a game.

    I've been gaming for some forty years. However, gaming isn't everything. If I have to give it up in favor of an old or a new hobby, I'll be sorry to see it go, but so be it.

    I agree 100%. I have not spent one penny on Sims4 and I am sure that they do not miss my drop in the bucket. I will not spend a penny on Sims5 either if it is tied to Origin or the internet or the cloud to play it. I will play Sims 3 until the disks break and I am no longer able to play it. I have many other interests that I can go back to when that happens. Yes, I will miss it, but I will not be forced to play tied to origin or the net thank you very much...but no thank you. Someday other gamers will wake up and realize what they gave up by allowing the gaming companies to take this kind of control over our games. Privacy for one. I hope I am still around to watch the tide turn.
  • ChadSims2ChadSims2 Posts: 3,278 Member
    I don’t know i hope so
    Cynna wrote: »

    Just to clarify, I think part of the "they can't" is due to TS4's initial setup, which I think is part of why some things are either hard to do or flat out impossible. And well, the issues with that are a whole different discussion (look, I like the game, but I'm aware of its start and how it was supposed to be something else - something that I hope they'll never consider again, thank you very much).

    What I find frustrating is that, if the game isn't capable of accomplishing certain things, why not say so?

    Just as an example: when Seasons was about to launch, the word went out that there would be no depth to the snow. The rep said that it wasn't because the engine couldn't handle the snow, it simply didn't look satisfactory. To me, that smacks of spin. If it were only a matter of aesthetics, why hasn't the snow been fixed yet? Furniture has improved, the ball pit was fixed STAT. Likewise, the counters in IL were fixed as soon as there was a disquieting rumble amongst the Game Changers. So, what happened to the snow?

    The reps keep touting that TS4 has the best engine within the entire series, smarter Sims, actual emotions (as if the series never had that before) and yet, the things that have been staples of the series have turned out to be too difficult, too costly, or whatever the reasoning is for any given issue.. If this is supposed to be a much better engine that makes creating easier, why is that?

    All I ask for is honesty. Being forthright gets you a lot more leeway than 'Yeah, we can do it' then not coming through. EA/Maxis used to be a really honest company that told the community when there were problems and everyone celebrated together when/if the problem was solved.

    The corporate "character" (at the moment, I can't think of the phrase that I really want to use) is very different now. Nowadays we get 'We want it to be the best that it can possibly be, using the hallmark function that is the basis of the game'. Nearly six years later, you get the lounge chair that does no such thing. It's dishonest.
    I feel so lied to when they said "You should know that we're building an incredibly strong foundation that is capable of fulfilling every one of your desires in the years to come. The future of The Sims 4 is bright!" 5 years later and I'm waiting for that "strong foundation" to kick in it sure is not coming with the Sims themselves they still cant truly interact with other Sims beyond talking to them, absolutely no awareness of the world or other Sims they still cant even dance together. No cars burglars or fear of anything and I sure hope we can all agree we were lied to our Sims do not have emotions.
    Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
  • Evil_OneEvil_One Posts: 4,407 Member
    edited October 13
    No it’s to late
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    Cynna wrote: »

    Just to clarify, I think part of the "they can't" is due to TS4's initial setup, which I think is part of why some things are either hard to do or flat out impossible. And well, the issues with that are a whole different discussion (look, I like the game, but I'm aware of its start and how it was supposed to be something else - something that I hope they'll never consider again, thank you very much).

    What I find frustrating is that, if the game isn't capable of accomplishing certain things, why not say so?

    Just as an example: when Seasons was about to launch, the word went out that there would be no depth to the snow. The rep said that it wasn't because the engine couldn't handle the snow, it simply didn't look satisfactory. To me, that smacks of spin. If it were only a matter of aesthetics, why hasn't the snow been fixed yet? Furniture has improved, the ball pit was fixed STAT. Likewise, the counters in IL were fixed as soon as there was a disquieting rumble amongst the Game Changers. So, what happened to the snow?

    The reps keep touting that TS4 has the best engine within the entire series, smarter Sims, actual emotions (as if the series never had that before) and yet, the things that have been staples of the series have turned out to be too difficult, too costly, or whatever the reasoning is for any given issue.. If this is supposed to be a much better engine that makes creating easier, why is that?

    All I ask for is honesty. Being forthright gets you a lot more leeway than 'Yeah, we can do it' then not coming through. EA/Maxis used to be a really honest company that told the community when there were problems and everyone celebrated together when/if the problem was solved.

    The corporate "character" (at the moment, I can't think of the phrase that I really want to use) is very different now. Nowadays we get 'We want it to be the best that it can possibly be, using the hallmark function that is the basis of the game'. Nearly six years later, you get the lounge chair that does no such thing. It's dishonest.
    I feel so lied to when they said "You should know that we're building an incredibly strong foundation that is capable of fulfilling every one of your desires in the years to come. The future of The Sims 4 is bright!" 5 years later and I'm waiting for that "strong foundation" to kick in it sure is not coming with the Sims themselves they still cant truly interact with other Sims beyond talking to them, absolutely no awareness of the world or other Sims they still cant even dance together. No cars burglars or fear of anything and I sure hope we can all agree we were lied to our Sims do not have emotions.

    If this is their idea of an "incredibly strong foundation", I'd hate to see what their idea of an incredibly weak one is.

    Alternatively, perhaps they were using the other definition of incredible:

    Incredible

    adjective

    in·​cred·​i·​ble | \ (ˌ)in-ˈkre-də-bəl \

    Definition of incredible

    1 : too extraordinary and improbable to be believed
    making incredible claims


    2 : AMAZING, EXTRAORDINARY
    incredible skill
    an incredible appetite
    met an incredible woman
    raw
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 1,925 Member
    No it’s to late
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    I feel so lied to when they said "You should know that we're building an incredibly strong foundation that is capable of fulfilling every one of your desires in the years to come. The future of The Sims 4 is bright!" 5 years later and I'm waiting for that "strong foundation" to kick in it sure is not coming with the Sims themselves they still cant truly interact with other Sims beyond talking to them, absolutely no awareness of the world or other Sims they still cant even dance together. No cars burglars or fear of anything and I sure hope we can all agree we were lied to our Sims do not have emotions.

    Exactly.
    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,882 Member
    edited October 13
    I don’t think anything needs to be fixed
    Cynna wrote: »
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    I feel so lied to when they said "You should know that we're building an incredibly strong foundation that is capable of fulfilling every one of your desires in the years to come. The future of The Sims 4 is bright!" 5 years later and I'm waiting for that "strong foundation" to kick in it sure is not coming with the Sims themselves they still cant truly interact with other Sims beyond talking to them, absolutely no awareness of the world or other Sims they still cant even dance together. No cars burglars or fear of anything and I sure hope we can all agree we were lied to our Sims do not have emotions.

    Exactly.

    I find this message weird - fighting the fight I am living - Sims is just a game. I live with hope every day just to stay alive so I find this sims thing a bit offputting when the words hope come into the picture. I am losing my battle but yet the sims go unchanged and steady for me. What's more the game actually keeps me sane - where as life itself is my battle.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • CynnaCynna Posts: 1,925 Member
    No it’s to late
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    I find this message weird - fighting the fight I am living - Sims is just a game. I live with hope every day just to stay alive so I find this sims thing a bit offputting when the words hope come into the picture. I am losing my battle but yet the sims go unchanged and steady for me. What's more the game actually keeps me sane - where as life itself is my battle.

    I don't usually like speaking about things like this in public. However, since you quoted me directly, I'll tell you exactly what I told you privately on your page: I'm very sorry that you are ill. I hope that you fight like hell, with everything that you've got, unceasingly, unwaveringly!

    Having said that, I will also say that hope comes in varying degrees and in varying situations. So does acquiescence. We are allowed to hope for whatever we wish as well as to realize that some hopes, big or small, may never become reality. So please, don't judge others because of your illness, it's unfair.

    You're in the fight of your life and I hold out hope for you. My hope for you is a big one and on that, I will not acquiesce because there is a difference between hoping for you to win your life and losing hope that TS4 will ever be the game that I'd like it to be. There are magnitudes of difference between the two and, in your pain, I hope that you can understand that.

    In the meantime, I'll keep right on hoping and praying for you despite your sense that you are 'losing'. You're still here with us and so long as you are, hope lives. ;) <3
    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 17,456 Member
    No it’s to late
    I do know when I joined the Sims community back in December 2014 I was told by doctors that there was a high chance I wouldn't survive my gallbladder removal surgery because it had gotten so bad. So I had one month to ask for toddlers and I joined the family play thread. Of course I was bullied when I had joined. I didn't let my health prevent me from wanting to leave a legacy for future Simmers. I knew even though I would not make the new year I wanted the next generation of Simmers to experience toddlers including my nephews who were my inspiration. I am not going to judge what others do with their remaining time, but that is how I spent mine. I am a little miracle survivor and have been since I was born with cords around my neck. I have lost far too many friends early this year due to death. I just lost my next door neighbor I grew up with to a brain tumor at only age 38. Only thing about life I can advise is cherish every moment. You may survive you may not, but don't forget to have fun and enjoy your family and friends along the way. I will miss you @Writin_Reg but I will try my best to honor your legacy as a fellow Simmer. I learned a lot from you and I cherish the time we are able to chat together.
    "The Sneetches got really quite smart on that day. The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches. And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches. That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars." -Dr. Seuss

    Everyone is a Simmer.
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,882 Member
    I don’t think anything needs to be fixed
    Cynna wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    I find this message weird - fighting the fight I am living - Sims is just a game. I live with hope every day just to stay alive so I find this sims thing a bit offputting when the words hope come into the picture. I am losing my battle but yet the sims go unchanged and steady for me. What's more the game actually keeps me sane - where as life itself is my battle.

    I don't usually like speaking about things like this in public. However, since you quoted me directly, I'll tell you exactly what I told you privately on your page: I'm very sorry that you are ill. I hope that you fight like hell, with everything that you've got, unceasingly, unwaveringly!

    Having said that, I will also say that hope comes in varying degrees and in varying situations. So does acquiescence. We are allowed to hope for whatever we wish as well as to realize that some hopes, big or small, may never become reality. So please, don't judge others because of your illness, it's unfair.

    You're in the fight of your life and I hold out hope for you. My hope for you is a big one and on that, I will not acquiesce because there is a difference between hoping for you to win your life and losing hope that TS4 will ever be the game that I'd like it to be. There are magnitudes of difference between the two and, in your pain, I hope that you can understand that.

    In the meantime, I'll keep right on hoping and praying for you despite your sense that you are 'losing'. You're still here with us and so long as you are, hope lives. ;) <3

    Thank you.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,882 Member
    I don’t think anything needs to be fixed
    Scobre wrote: »
    I do know when I joined the Sims community back in December 2014 I was told by doctors that there was a high chance I wouldn't survive my gallbladder removal surgery because it had gotten so bad. So I had one month to ask for toddlers and I joined the family play thread. Of course I was bullied when I had joined. I didn't let my health prevent me from wanting to leave a legacy for future Simmers. I knew even though I would not make the new year I wanted the next generation of Simmers to experience toddlers including my nephews who were my inspiration. I am not going to judge what others do with their remaining time, but that is how I spent mine. I am a little miracle survivor and have been since I was born with cords around my neck. I have lost far too many friends early this year due to death. I just lost my next door neighbor I grew up with to a brain tumor at only age 38. Only thing about life I can advise is cherish every moment. You may survive you may not, but don't forget to have fun and enjoy your family and friends along the way. I will miss you @Writin_Reg but I will try my best to honor your legacy as a fellow Simmer. I learned a lot from you and I cherish the time we are able to chat together.

    Thank you...

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • ScobreScobre Posts: 17,456 Member
    No it’s to late
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    I do know when I joined the Sims community back in December 2014 I was told by doctors that there was a high chance I wouldn't survive my gallbladder removal surgery because it had gotten so bad. So I had one month to ask for toddlers and I joined the family play thread. Of course I was bullied when I had joined. I didn't let my health prevent me from wanting to leave a legacy for future Simmers. I knew even though I would not make the new year I wanted the next generation of Simmers to experience toddlers including my nephews who were my inspiration. I am not going to judge what others do with their remaining time, but that is how I spent mine. I am a little miracle survivor and have been since I was born with cords around my neck. I have lost far too many friends early this year due to death. I just lost my next door neighbor I grew up with to a brain tumor at only age 38. Only thing about life I can advise is cherish every moment. You may survive you may not, but don't forget to have fun and enjoy your family and friends along the way. I will miss you @Writin_Reg but I will try my best to honor your legacy as a fellow Simmer. I learned a lot from you and I cherish the time we are able to chat together.

    Thank you...
    You got this though. You've battled it before and you can battle it again. Don't let doctors discourage you from losing hope.
    "The Sneetches got really quite smart on that day. The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches. And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches. That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars." -Dr. Seuss

    Everyone is a Simmer.
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 1,925 Member
    edited October 14
    No it’s to late
    Scobre wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    Thank you...
    You got this though. You've battled it before and you can battle it again. Don't let doctors discourage you from losing hope.

    Indeed!

    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • Evil_OneEvil_One Posts: 4,407 Member
    No it’s to late
    Cynna wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    Thank you...
    You got this though. You've battled it before and you can battle it again. Don't let doctors discourage you from losing hope.

    Indeed!

    Yeah, doctors are still people at the end of the day, they're as fallible as anyone else.
    raw
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