I am confused. Do you mean that they can one day shut down the server, like they have for other games? I suppose legally they can if they are losing money, but I don't think that is a worry here. Not every sims player is a gamer. For some it is more like a hobby and a way to use their creative outlets to build, storytelling, etc. People spend a great deal on this game so it would be more prudent to find another alternative.
For years I’ve seen comments slating and bashing Sims 3 for having so many bugs (and rightly so). And now all of a sudden it’s:
I pay and know bugs are possible
I don't expect anything to get released "bug-free" as the OP puts it
Bug free games don't exist.
And no game is totally 'bug-free'.
Bugs in Sims 3: horrible, unplayable, unacceptable!!
Bugs in Sims 4: ah, yeah, that can happen.
Must be awesome for EA to read fans are finally ok with it. “I sincerely hope it doesn't resemble 3 after these next few years.”
Seems to me it already does. “You don't have to pay for the DLC if you don't want it.”
And if you do want it? Isn’t that the whole point in this topic? Wanting DLC but not the bugs?
You're right @JoAnne65 that bugs are not in and of themselves acceptable, not any more in 4 than in 3. But I do find that most of the bugs I encounter in 4 do eventually get fixed, sometimes right away in post-EP emergency patches, and sometimes 1-2 months later in big bug fix patches. Most of the bugs I ever saw in 3 are still there and can often only be fully fixed with mods (NRaas, for example). That's kind of the difference I tried to point out. It's not that I enjoy the bugs that I have, but I do see them getting fixed and I currently have barely any at all. So yes, it's a bit subjective in the end, and perhaps also depends on how many you encounter.
You're right @JoAnne65 that bugs are not in and of themselves acceptable, not any more in 4 than in 3. But I do find that most of the bugs I encounter in 4 do eventually get fixed, sometimes right away in post-EP emergency patches, and sometimes 1-2 months later in big bug fix patches. Most of the bugs I ever saw in 3 are still there and can often only be fully fixed with mods (NRaas, for example). That's kind of the difference I tried to point out. It's not that I enjoy the bugs that I have, but I do see them getting fixed and I currently have barely any at all. So yes, it's a bit subjective in the end, and perhaps also depends on how many you encounter.
Quite recently this mod was brought to my attention. That was a gasp moment for me, because that’s exactly what Sims 4 is about for me and one of the reasons I’m unable to get into the game, sims just standing there doing nothing. It’s so lifeless, so... dull. Completely clueless why people constantly claim these sims are so lively and active, they aren’t in my game. So, apparently we need that mod for that and if I’ll ever open my Sims 4 game again, I’ll make sure to install it. But why hasn’t EA? I see bugs being a problem all the time here. People hoping a particular bug will be fixed, being diappointed when it’s not adressed in a next patch, being happy when it is, being disappointed when it breaks again in a next pack or patch.
I completely understand why people accept this. When you love a game you do, you’ll have to. But the excusing I really don’t understand. Not in a “then you’ll have to excuse it for Sims 3 as well” kind of way but in a “no, in Sims 4 it’s not justifiable or defensible either” kind of way.
All of these community fixes are superb, and I'm always deeply thankful when someone takes the time and effort to produce something like a simulation lag fix, but the fact that members of the community even have to do this to make the game playable for some is what gets me. It's essentially players doing what Maxis/EA should be doing in the first place. At the very least they should take these community made fixes and incorporate them into the game officially in some way.
Wait, so, ... we’re all cool and understanding about bugs now? *pinches herself* *nope, not dreaming*
As far as understanding- I am still not sure who this was directed at, are you agreeing that the amount of bugs is unacceptable, and the product is not ready for release to the paying public? My comment stands. And when I said " I am also able to discuss the issues that I find unethical, and make comments so that other (potential) purchasers are aware of what, exactly, they are to expect." I meant that (potential) purchasers should be aware of what to expect (meaning: Expect, at the price these packs cost, expect far better quality, and far less bugs).
You're right @JoAnne65 that bugs are not in and of themselves acceptable, not any more in 4 than in 3. But I do find that most of the bugs I encounter in 4 do eventually get fixed, sometimes right away in post-EP emergency patches, and sometimes 1-2 months later in big bug fix patches. Most of the bugs I ever saw in 3 are still there and can often only be fully fixed with mods (NRaas, for example). That's kind of the difference I tried to point out. It's not that I enjoy the bugs that I have, but I do see them getting fixed and I currently have barely any at all. So yes, it's a bit subjective in the end, and perhaps also depends on how many you encounter.
Quite recently this mod was brought to my attention. That was a gasp moment for me, because that’s exactly what Sims 4 is about for me and one of the reasons I’m unable to get into the game, sims just standing there doing nothing. It’s so lifeless, so... dull. Completely clueless why people constantly claim these sims are so lively and active, they aren’t in my game. So, apparently we need that mod for that and if I’ll ever open my Sims 4 game again, I’ll make sure to install it. But why hasn’t EA? I see bugs being a problem all the time here. People hoping a particular bug will be fixed, being diappointed when it’s not adressed in a next patch, being happy when it is, being disappointed when it breaks again in a next pack or patch.
I completely understand why people accept this. When you love a game you do, you’ll have to. But the excusing I really don’t understand. Not in a “then you’ll have to excuse it for Sims 3 as well” kind of way but in a “no, in Sims 4 it’s not justifiable or defensible either” kind of way.
Hmm yes that is indeed annoying. I have to admit though that I haven't encountered that the last times I played. I did for a while though so I totally get the frustration. I also think I stopped playing for a while then. But right now it isn't an issue, although I concur it's not an uncommon one and it's a thing devs should fix. I'm never for modders doing the company's job which is why I totally agreed with your previous points. Games riddled with bugs aren't okay. It's just that I'm personally under the impression that they do try to fix them.
Wait, so, ... we’re all cool and understanding about bugs now? *pinches herself* *nope, not dreaming*
Oh, so you thought it was cute to be condescending... Got it. As far as understanding- yes, I do, the amount of bugs is unacceptable, and the product is not ready for release to the paying public. My comment stands. And when I said " I am also able to discuss the issues that I find unethical, and make comments so that other (potential) purchasers are aware of what, exactly, they are to expect." I meant that (potential) purchasers should be aware of what to expect (meaning: Expect, at the price these packs cost, expect far better quality, and far less bugs).
Wait, so, ... we’re all cool and understanding about bugs now? *pinches herself* *nope, not dreaming*
Oh, so you thought it was cute to be condescending... Got it. As far as understanding- yes, I do, the amount of bugs is unacceptable, and the product is not ready for release to the paying public. My comment stands. And when I said " I am also able to discuss the issues that I find unethical, and make comments so that other (potential) purchasers are aware of what, exactly, they are to expect." I meant that (potential) purchasers should be aware of what to expect (meaning: Expect, at the price these packs cost, expect far better quality, and far less bugs).
I think she agrees with you
I decided to ask, again, because it was still not clear if she was agreeing with me (the "original OP").
All of these community fixes are superb, and I'm always deeply thankful when someone takes the time and effort to produce something like a simulation lag fix, but the fact that members of the community even have to do this to make the game playable for some is what gets me. It's essentially players doing what Maxis/EA should be doing in the first place. At the very least they should take these community made fixes and incorporate them into the game officially in some way.
Completely agree, and have a tonne of respect for the community members who take time to make (free) mods to help so many other (non-coders) simmers.
I run a vanlla game. No mods or custum content, so I get to see it for what it really is. I agree that it has too many bugs and they need to be addressed. Third party mods should not be the answer to this.
No. One I am not renting the game, I own them once they are bought and two I am realistic. Nothing is ever bug-free (ever tried coding and programming?). As long as they fix them when reported, that is what I care about and not everyone gets the same bugs either (the biggest ones had emergency patches). I never had some of the problems people mentioned in the past (half the problems people have is often due to mods, so that is to be expected and the risk people take). By the way, nobody wants bugs but every game I played had some at some point and some never been fixed. That is not ideal, but it happens. People just want fixes when they do happen. Sims 3 hasn't been fixed and won't now, that is the problem
As for prices, that is due to the economy and typical for new games. You can wait for sales, look around for better deals or try to enter contests. Shop wisely and it would mean saving money and sometimes pain.
Also just because YOU didn't ask for something, doesn't mean others don't want it. The beauty is you don't have to buy everything. I had to wait a long time but finally getting Island Living and Realm of Magic like I been wanting personally. Different people may want different things. Personally, I don't understand the hype of University (farming even less so. I guess people really like chores? They voted for laundry....I don't know why, but each their own) unless they have an overall education overhaul and add some new careers that we can't enter with a degree. Reasons to want it.
would include "Hey Simmers! We really listened to you guys, and have decided that you do not have to pay UnSimly amounts of money to 'rent' the game (and small packs)... You guys (simmers) actually own your games (because it's a normal thing). We also are releasing a completely bug-free game/ packs from now on!... We also listened to your huge disappointment in releasing a DLC for a DLC (the embarrassing "My first pets stuff" incident).... And one last HUGE surprise.. the "motherlode" (*crowd laughs)... We have been making these tiny TS4 games/packs in order to work on fixing alllll the issues in TS3 (and TS4 for those who prefer it), and you are all getting a (free) update!"
Anyone else??.... Just me?
As with most digital games, you buy the right to play and use them, not own them, because then you could resell it. So I do not believe it is much different from owning digital games on steam.
My first pet stuff is sort of a running joke that they have mentioned before, no real need to do it now, it is also a DLC that was criticized a lot by the community but also one of their best selling (according to the simgurus) so they making fun it would not be a smart thing to do.
As with bug fixing, I agree, I wish there could be more focus on it and more people working on it over at Answer HQ but I do not think bug fixing is something that you would mention at EA play. It is not new or exiting unfortunately and does not showcase their game positively. I have sent them feedback on answer hq that they should assign more people to do bug fixing and keep us more updated but we can only hope.
No. One I am not renting the game, I own them once they are bought and two I am realistic. Nothing is ever bug-free (ever tried coding and programming?). As long as they fix them when reported, that is what I care about and not everyone gets the same bugs either (the biggest ones had emergency patches). I never had some of the problems people mentioned in the past (half the problems people have is often due to mods, so that is to be expected and the risk people take). By the way, nobody wants bugs but every game I played had some at some point and some never been fixed. That is not ideal, but it happens. People just want fixes when they do happen. Sims 3 hasn't been fixed and won't now, that is the problem
As for prices, that is due to the economy and typical for new games. You can wait for sales, look around for better deals or try to enter contests. Shop wisely and it would mean saving money and sometimes pain.
Also just because YOU didn't ask for something, doesn't mean others don't want it. The beauty is you don't have to buy everything. I had to wait a long time but finally getting Island Living and Realm of Magic like I been wanting personally. Different people may want different things. Personally, I don't understand the hype of University (farming even less so. I guess people really like chores? They voted for laundry....I don't know why, but each their own) unless they have an overall education overhaul and add some new careers that we can't enter with a degree. Reasons to want it.
The "games as service" model does mean we do not technically own the game. So in a way, it is a one time rental fee. I miss the offline only physical copy way of things that we don't have to connect to the internet, as that was true ownership.
Wait, so, ... we’re all cool and understanding about bugs now? *pinches herself* *nope, not dreaming*
As far as understanding- I am still not sure who this was directed at, are you agreeing that the amount of bugs is unacceptable, and the product is not ready for release to the paying public? My comment stands. And when I said " I am also able to discuss the issues that I find unethical, and make comments so that other (potential) purchasers are aware of what, exactly, they are to expect." I meant that (potential) purchasers should be aware of what to expect (meaning: Expect, at the price these packs cost, expect far better quality, and far less bugs).
Yes, sorry for the confusion but my somewhat startled utterance was based on what came after your OP. I'm with you.
Sims 4 was enjoyable at the start because it was (mostly) bug free. Now there are more issues, I have to use reset sim once in a while.
So yeah would be nice the the higher up would give a bit of "stabilization time".
Must add that this for me isn't true either. Sims 4's basegame was a complete bore. Way too empty. If I have to choose I prefer a temperamental game that I love to play (well, I am choosing, I've been doing that for 9,5 years now) to a smooth experience that's so somnolent that I close after 15 minutes, regretting the wasted time. That not an excuse for way too many bugs in any game though, making sure it's fun and rich.
Wild thought perhaps, but could the fact they develop this game based on one foundation and then all those packs that keep piling up be the actual problem? That sure is something we can blame on EA, because it's a strategy with just one goal: making more money and keep the fans stay tuned and spending.
It never even crossed my mind, tbh. I've been playing video games for decades -- never saw one without bugs. Even Stardew Valley has bugs.
I have seen plenty of "bug free" video games. Maybe it is because I do not really like online games, as I love single player offline video games.
I play only single player offline games as well and have encountered bugs in literally all of them, even in things like Horizon Zero Dawn and God of War which are two insanely well optimized games. Bug free simply doesn't exist, unless the games are so extremely short and simple in design that there isn't much that can go wrong in the first place. And that's not necessarily a problem as long as these bugs are acknowledged and fixed as much as possible. But bugs that go ignored and are plenty - yes that's a problem.
You're right @JoAnne65 that bugs are not in and of themselves acceptable, not any more in 4 than in 3. But I do find that most of the bugs I encounter in 4 do eventually get fixed, sometimes right away in post-EP emergency patches, and sometimes 1-2 months later in big bug fix patches. Most of the bugs I ever saw in 3 are still there and can often only be fully fixed with mods (NRaas, for example). That's kind of the difference I tried to point out. It's not that I enjoy the bugs that I have, but I do see them getting fixed and I currently have barely any at all. So yes, it's a bit subjective in the end, and perhaps also depends on how many you encounter.
Quite recently this mod was brought to my attention. That was a gasp moment for me, because that’s exactly what Sims 4 is about for me and one of the reasons I’m unable to get into the game, sims just standing there doing nothing. It’s so lifeless, so... dull. Completely clueless why people constantly claim these sims are so lively and active, they aren’t in my game. So, apparently we need that mod for that and if I’ll ever open my Sims 4 game again, I’ll make sure to install it. But why hasn’t EA? I see bugs being a problem all the time here. People hoping a particular bug will be fixed, being diappointed when it’s not adressed in a next patch, being happy when it is, being disappointed when it breaks again in a next pack or patch.
I completely understand why people accept this. When you love a game you do, you’ll have to. But the excusing I really don’t understand. Not in a “then you’ll have to excuse it for Sims 3 as well” kind of way but in a “no, in Sims 4 it’s not justifiable or defensible either” kind of way.
I'm confused. What am I supposed to be looking at in that mod? What's so different between the mod vs the regular game?
They have been reworking all that. That won't usually be part of announcements but several devs have mentioned it. I am sure there is a lot more to come.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
You're right @JoAnne65 that bugs are not in and of themselves acceptable, not any more in 4 than in 3. But I do find that most of the bugs I encounter in 4 do eventually get fixed, sometimes right away in post-EP emergency patches, and sometimes 1-2 months later in big bug fix patches. Most of the bugs I ever saw in 3 are still there and can often only be fully fixed with mods (NRaas, for example). That's kind of the difference I tried to point out. It's not that I enjoy the bugs that I have, but I do see them getting fixed and I currently have barely any at all. So yes, it's a bit subjective in the end, and perhaps also depends on how many you encounter.
Quite recently this mod was brought to my attention. That was a gasp moment for me, because that’s exactly what Sims 4 is about for me and one of the reasons I’m unable to get into the game, sims just standing there doing nothing. It’s so lifeless, so... dull. Completely clueless why people constantly claim these sims are so lively and active, they aren’t in my game. So, apparently we need that mod for that and if I’ll ever open my Sims 4 game again, I’ll make sure to install it. But why hasn’t EA? I see bugs being a problem all the time here. People hoping a particular bug will be fixed, being diappointed when it’s not adressed in a next patch, being happy when it is, being disappointed when it breaks again in a next pack or patch.
I completely understand why people accept this. When you love a game you do, you’ll have to. But the excusing I really don’t understand. Not in a “then you’ll have to excuse it for Sims 3 as well” kind of way but in a “no, in Sims 4 it’s not justifiable or defensible either” kind of way.
I'm confused. What am I supposed to be looking at in that mod? What's so different between the mod vs the regular game?
It reduces simulation lag. You can see it in the comparison video. On the left a lot of the sims are just sitting or standing there, doing nothing, as if they're waiting for something. On the right everyone is interacting or doing something (like the bartender). Plus it's in the description?
I'm just gonna point out that you don't have to buy digital copies of the games. You can always purchase a disk version at stores like target, walmart, and bestbuy. I have half the collection on dvd rom disks that I purchased in a store not online.
I agree that the devs need to get it together and focus on fixing the content they've already released versus releasing new content. Especially since bugs and bug fixes can have ripple effects throughout the code causing other issues. It's gonna get harder for them to find and fix the bugs if they just keep adding piles of code on top of it... which is basically where they're already at.
However, I'm not 🐸🐸🐸🐸 off. I'm not angry with the devs. I still choose to play the sims because I like to play the sims. I have so much time and content invested in my game that I accept the bugs and glitches because I've allowed those when I chose to open my game to full creativity. Sure, I could play vanilla and have a much more boring experience but I choose not to.. and I can't really blame that on the devs. They didn't force custom content and mods on us. They let us alter and change the game that they created and put money, time, and work into. Yeah they didn't listen to every single thing the fans said but just think about it for a minute ..the sims came a really long way since the initial release of the game. Just the abilities we have to mod and change our gameplay have gone from minimal to so many possibilities. I'll take a few bugs (that don't cause my game to crash) and be happy with it because I have way more control over my game play now than ever before.
But I don't think its fair to say they are unethical in any way. In fact, I'm not even sure what you mean by unethical considering that statement doesn't even agree with the definition of the word.
It never even crossed my mind, tbh. I've been playing video games for decades -- never saw one without bugs. Even Stardew Valley has bugs.
I have seen plenty of "bug free" video games. Maybe it is because I do not really like online games, as I love single player offline video games.
Yes, me too, I own hundreds of them. (Truth)
I do as well, and so do the many gamers that I know- people who would hold companies accountable for their product, because players actually pay for that. The mentality (today) with accepting poor business models is shocking.
No. One I am not renting the game, I own them once they are bought and two I am realistic. Nothing is ever bug-free (ever tried coding and programming?).
Also just because YOU didn't ask for something, doesn't mean others don't want it.
1: Owning something means that you can do with it what you choose.. Eg: I own a vehicle, and can resell it, or paint it, or give it to someone else who needs a vehicle. I own a home, and I can sell it, give it to someone who maybe can't own a home (because people insist on driving prices up to unreachable heights), etc.
2: You'd be surprised what I know. I guess one never knows who they are addressing behind the Sim.
3: I never said I didn't ask. I also never said that I didn't want Island based play- or magic. Never said others don't want it, nor did I ever slam people for wanting what they want.... The statement was "Was anyone else hoping that the announcement would INCLUDE ...".
Comments
Bugs in Sims 3: horrible, unplayable, unacceptable!!
Bugs in Sims 4: ah, yeah, that can happen.
Must be awesome for EA to read fans are finally ok with it.
“I sincerely hope it doesn't resemble 3 after these next few years.”
Seems to me it already does.
“You don't have to pay for the DLC if you don't want it.”
And if you do want it? Isn’t that the whole point in this topic? Wanting DLC but not the bugs?
I completely understand why people accept this. When you love a game you do, you’ll have to. But the excusing I really don’t understand. Not in a “then you’ll have to excuse it for Sims 3 as well” kind of way but in a “no, in Sims 4 it’s not justifiable or defensible either” kind of way.
As far as understanding- I am still not sure who this was directed at, are you agreeing that the amount of bugs is unacceptable, and the product is not ready for release to the paying public? My comment stands. And when I said " I am also able to discuss the issues that I find unethical, and make comments so that other (potential) purchasers are aware of what, exactly, they are to expect." I meant that (potential) purchasers should be aware of what to expect (meaning: Expect, at the price these packs cost, expect far better quality, and far less bugs).
Hmm yes that is indeed annoying. I have to admit though that I haven't encountered that the last times I played. I did for a while though so I totally get the frustration. I also think I stopped playing for a while then. But right now it isn't an issue, although I concur it's not an uncommon one and it's a thing devs should fix. I'm never for modders doing the company's job which is why I totally agreed with your previous points. Games riddled with bugs aren't okay. It's just that I'm personally under the impression that they do try to fix them.
I think she agrees with you
I decided to ask, again, because it was still not clear if she was agreeing with me (the "original OP").
Completely agree, and have a tonne of respect for the community members who take time to make (free) mods to help so many other (non-coders) simmers.
I have seen plenty of "bug free" video games. Maybe it is because I do not really like online games, as I love single player offline video games.
As for prices, that is due to the economy and typical for new games. You can wait for sales, look around for better deals or try to enter contests. Shop wisely and it would mean saving money and sometimes pain.
Also just because YOU didn't ask for something, doesn't mean others don't want it. The beauty is you don't have to buy everything. I had to wait a long time but finally getting Island Living and Realm of Magic like I been wanting personally. Different people may want different things. Personally, I don't understand the hype of University (farming even less so. I guess people really like chores? They voted for laundry....I don't know why, but each their own) unless they have an overall education overhaul and add some new careers that we can't enter with a degree. Reasons to want it.
Lets make this a reality!
As with most digital games, you buy the right to play and use them, not own them, because then you could resell it. So I do not believe it is much different from owning digital games on steam.
My first pet stuff is sort of a running joke that they have mentioned before, no real need to do it now, it is also a DLC that was criticized a lot by the community but also one of their best selling (according to the simgurus) so they making fun it would not be a smart thing to do.
As with bug fixing, I agree, I wish there could be more focus on it and more people working on it over at Answer HQ but I do not think bug fixing is something that you would mention at EA play. It is not new or exiting unfortunately and does not showcase their game positively. I have sent them feedback on answer hq that they should assign more people to do bug fixing and keep us more updated but we can only hope.
So yeah would be nice the the higher up would give a bit of "stabilization time".
The "games as service" model does mean we do not technically own the game. So in a way, it is a one time rental fee. I miss the offline only physical copy way of things that we don't have to connect to the internet, as that was true ownership.
Wild thought perhaps, but could the fact they develop this game based on one foundation and then all those packs that keep piling up be the actual problem? That sure is something we can blame on EA, because it's a strategy with just one goal: making more money and keep the fans stay tuned and spending.
Yes, me too, I own hundreds of them. (Truth)
I play only single player offline games as well and have encountered bugs in literally all of them, even in things like Horizon Zero Dawn and God of War which are two insanely well optimized games. Bug free simply doesn't exist, unless the games are so extremely short and simple in design that there isn't much that can go wrong in the first place. And that's not necessarily a problem as long as these bugs are acknowledged and fixed as much as possible. But bugs that go ignored and are plenty - yes that's a problem.
I'm confused. What am I supposed to be looking at in that mod? What's so different between the mod vs the regular game?
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I couldn't see a difference, either...?
The Venegas-Chan Family Tree
I agree that the devs need to get it together and focus on fixing the content they've already released versus releasing new content. Especially since bugs and bug fixes can have ripple effects throughout the code causing other issues. It's gonna get harder for them to find and fix the bugs if they just keep adding piles of code on top of it... which is basically where they're already at.
However, I'm not 🐸🐸🐸🐸 off. I'm not angry with the devs. I still choose to play the sims because I like to play the sims. I have so much time and content invested in my game that I accept the bugs and glitches because I've allowed those when I chose to open my game to full creativity. Sure, I could play vanilla and have a much more boring experience but I choose not to.. and I can't really blame that on the devs. They didn't force custom content and mods on us. They let us alter and change the game that they created and put money, time, and work into. Yeah they didn't listen to every single thing the fans said but just think about it for a minute ..the sims came a really long way since the initial release of the game. Just the abilities we have to mod and change our gameplay have gone from minimal to so many possibilities. I'll take a few bugs (that don't cause my game to crash) and be happy with it because I have way more control over my game play now than ever before.
But I don't think its fair to say they are unethical in any way. In fact, I'm not even sure what you mean by unethical considering that statement doesn't even agree with the definition of the word.
I do as well, and so do the many gamers that I know- people who would hold companies accountable for their product, because players actually pay for that. The mentality (today) with accepting poor business models is shocking.
1: Owning something means that you can do with it what you choose.. Eg: I own a vehicle, and can resell it, or paint it, or give it to someone else who needs a vehicle. I own a home, and I can sell it, give it to someone who maybe can't own a home (because people insist on driving prices up to unreachable heights), etc.
2: You'd be surprised what I know.
3: I never said I didn't ask. I also never said that I didn't want Island based play- or magic. Never said others don't want it, nor did I ever slam people for wanting what they want.... The statement was "Was anyone else hoping that the announcement would INCLUDE ...".