especially since people been asking for this since the SIMS 1...
And there's been as many, if not more, saying, "no, we don't want it"
Do you really want to take this escape away from people who have serious health problems? If it's done wrong, it's not going to be fun for them.
If it's to be added, it has to be done very carefully. It needs to be done in a way that you can only have it in your game if you actively engage it. It should not automatically appear.
Personally, I'd rather there be more basic, illness and injury added, and the need to visit a doctor or hospital on occasion. Bunk beds should be added, with the risk that children can fall from them and break a limb, and be in a plaster cast for a couple of sim days. More light hearted stuff, not the cruel seriousness of terminal illness, disability, and mental health problems.
especially since people been asking for this since the SIMS 1...
And there's been as many, if not more, saying, "no, we don't want it"
Do you really want to take this escape away from people who have serious health problems? If it's done wrong, it's not going to be fun for them.
If it's to be added, it has to be done very carefully. It needs to be done in a way that you can only have it in your game if you actively engage it. It should not automatically appear.
Personally, I'd rather there be more basic, illness and injury added, and the need to visit a doctor or hospital on occasion. Bunk beds should be added, with the risk that children can fall from them and break a limb, and be in a plaster cast for a couple of sim days. More light hearted stuff, not the cruel seriousness of terminal illness, disability, and mental health problems.
So what about the people who either a)want to be able make themselves in a wheelchair or b) with a prohtiesic limb? Don't they have the right to be able to create themselves and hate having to make a "not them" simself? Since they might view the wheelchair as a part of them like I do with my glasses (so I hate it when my simself changes into work clothes I'm suddenly wearing contacts??).
Actually I seen more people asking for disablties then I seen people opposed to it-there were 5-6 if not more different threads during the Sims 3 time and most of Sims 4 threads about the topic disappeared because of I believe SimtafferJessica only one didn't and that was because of a different ex-staffer who had to close it. You DO realize that the Sims team are/will be talking to DISABLED SIMMERS about how to add disabilities to the game? Grant said that they had talked to some wheelchair simmers to help with a design issue they're had, and he also mentioned in another tweet he's willing to listen to disabled people.
Most people are okay with wheelchairs and other things that are highly visible. It'll take a massive amount of animator time and no small amount of work from the rest of the dev staff, but in principle your sim should be allowed to have a wheelchair. And if glasses are part of how you see a sim, it's totally fair to ask one of the gurus to let them stick around even through work costume changes.
Terminal illnesses and mental disabilities are the parts where pretty much any way EA tries to do them will go poorly, that's what most of the pushback is against.
Okay, time to chime in my two Simoleans worth like I did with another thread.
I do not want any kind of disabilities or terminal illnesses in a game I play to escape from life. I've dealt with disabilities all my life, depression for the last 15+ years and now anxiety, I don't want this in my game. I lost my Dad to cancer nine years ago- I don't need or want to see my Sims suffer a long-term terminal illness.
I can get behind making better use of the hospital/doctor career that came with GTW- give us broken bones and temporary injuries that make our sims need use crutches or even wheelchairs or take medication. Let our sims be able to visit the doctor when they're sick and get checkups. But no disabilities in any form please.
especially since people been asking for this since the SIMS 1...
And there's been as many, if not more, saying, "no, we don't want it"
Do you really want to take this escape away from people who have serious health problems? If it's done wrong, it's not going to be fun for them.
If it's to be added, it has to be done very carefully. It needs to be done in a way that you can only have it in your game if you actively engage it. It should not automatically appear.
Personally, I'd rather there be more basic, illness and injury added, and the need to visit a doctor or hospital on occasion. Bunk beds should be added, with the risk that children can fall from them and break a limb, and be in a plaster cast for a couple of sim days. More light hearted stuff, not the cruel seriousness of terminal illness, disability, and mental health problems.
So what about the people who either a)want to be able make themselves in a wheelchair or b) with a prohtiesic limb? Don't they have the right to be able to create themselves and hate having to make a "not them" simself? Since they might view the wheelchair as a part of them like I do with my glasses (so I hate it when my simself changes into work clothes I'm suddenly wearing contacts??).
Actually I seen more people asking for disablties then I seen people opposed to it-there were 5-6 if not more different threads during the Sims 3 time and most of Sims 4 threads about the topic disappeared because of I believe SimtafferJessica only one didn't and that was because of a different ex-staffer who had to close it. You DO realize that the Sims team are/will be talking to DISABLED SIMMERS about how to add disabilities to the game? Grant said that they had talked to some wheelchair simmers to help with a design issue they're had, and he also mentioned in another tweet he's willing to listen to disabled people.
You know something, I think TS4 is about the only game where people make a lot of Simselves. I've been around a very long time and it seems to me TS4 is the game where people want to make themselves instead of playing Sims. I was on all the forums over the years, remember a lot about all those other forums and I rarely saw anyone in those older games creating themselves. We usually played Sims. Not ourselves. I wonder why that is? Just rambling, TS4 seems to make people want to play themselves where the other games were about Sims not real people and we all understood they lived in different world than our own, and though they mimicked life, they weren't us, and we weren't them. ETA: And I'm wondering if that mind set of they aren't us isn't healtheir than trying to play our avatar.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
especially since people been asking for this since the SIMS 1...
And there's been as many, if not more, saying, "no, we don't want it"
Do you really want to take this escape away from people who have serious health problems? If it's done wrong, it's not going to be fun for them.
If it's to be added, it has to be done very carefully. It needs to be done in a way that you can only have it in your game if you actively engage it. It should not automatically appear.
Personally, I'd rather there be more basic, illness and injury added, and the need to visit a doctor or hospital on occasion. Bunk beds should be added, with the risk that children can fall from them and break a limb, and be in a plaster cast for a couple of sim days. More light hearted stuff, not the cruel seriousness of terminal illness, disability, and mental health problems.
So what about the people who either a)want to be able make themselves in a wheelchair or b) with a prohtiesic limb? Don't they have the right to be able to create themselves and hate having to make a "not them" simself? Since they might view the wheelchair as a part of them like I do with my glasses (so I hate it when my simself changes into work clothes I'm suddenly wearing contacts??).
Actually I seen more people asking for disablties then I seen people opposed to it-there were 5-6 if not more different threads during the Sims 3 time and most of Sims 4 threads about the topic disappeared because of I believe SimtafferJessica only one didn't and that was because of a different ex-staffer who had to close it. You DO realize that the Sims team are/will be talking to DISABLED SIMMERS about how to add disabilities to the game? Grant said that they had talked to some wheelchair simmers to help with a design issue they're had, and he also mentioned in another tweet he's willing to listen to disabled people.
You know something, I think TS4 is about the only game where people make a lot of Simselves. I've been around a very long time and it seems to me TS4 is the game where people want to make themselves instead of playing Sims. I was on all the forums over the years, remember a lot about all those other forums and I rarely saw anyone in those older games creating themselves. We usually played Sims. Not ourselves. I wonder why that is? Just rambling, TS4 seems to make people want to play themselves where the other games were about Sims not real people and we all understood they lived in different world than our own, and though they mimicked life, they weren't us, and we weren't them. ETA: And I'm wondering if that mind set of they aren't us isn't healtheir than trying to play our avatar.
I saw a million different threads during the Sims 3 which had people who wanted to make their simselves with disabilities. One person even stated in one thread that they asked way at the beginning of the Sims series..about disabilities in the game but back then you had to eat only at the table or something to eat. Unlike now if we have a bathtub or something they're can eat there or on the toilet. One person said that during the Sims 2 they kept trying to take their simselves' leg off because that person was born with only one leg but he kept ending up as ghost.
especially since people been asking for this since the SIMS 1...
And there's been as many, if not more, saying, "no, we don't want it"
Do you really want to take this escape away from people who have serious health problems? If it's done wrong, it's not going to be fun for them.
If it's to be added, it has to be done very carefully. It needs to be done in a way that you can only have it in your game if you actively engage it. It should not automatically appear.
Personally, I'd rather there be more basic, illness and injury added, and the need to visit a doctor or hospital on occasion. Bunk beds should be added, with the risk that children can fall from them and break a limb, and be in a plaster cast for a couple of sim days. More light hearted stuff, not the cruel seriousness of terminal illness, disability, and mental health problems.
So what about the people who either a)want to be able make themselves in a wheelchair or b) with a prohtiesic limb? Don't they have the right to be able to create themselves and hate having to make a "not them" simself? Since they might view the wheelchair as a part of them like I do with my glasses (so I hate it when my simself changes into work clothes I'm suddenly wearing contacts??).
Actually I seen more people asking for disablties then I seen people opposed to it-there were 5-6 if not more different threads during the Sims 3 time and most of Sims 4 threads about the topic disappeared because of I believe SimtafferJessica only one didn't and that was because of a different ex-staffer who had to close it. You DO realize that the Sims team are/will be talking to DISABLED SIMMERS about how to add disabilities to the game? Grant said that they had talked to some wheelchair simmers to help with a design issue they're had, and he also mentioned in another tweet he's willing to listen to disabled people.
You know something, I think TS4 is about the only game where people make a lot of Simselves. I've been around a very long time and it seems to me TS4 is the game where people want to make themselves instead of playing Sims. I was on all the forums over the years, remember a lot about all those other forums and I rarely saw anyone in those older games creating themselves. We usually played Sims. Not ourselves. I wonder why that is? Just rambling, TS4 seems to make people want to play themselves where the other games were about Sims not real people and we all understood they lived in different world than our own, and though they mimicked life, they weren't us, and we weren't them. ETA: And I'm wondering if that mind set of they aren't us isn't healtheir than trying to play our avatar.
I saw a million different threads during the Sims 3 which had people who wanted to make their simselves with disabilities. One person even stated in one thread that they asked way at the beginning of the Sims series..about disabilities in the game but back then you had to eat only at the table or something to eat. Unlike now if we have a bathtub or something they're can eat there or on the toilet. One person said that during the Sims 2 they kept trying to take their simselves' leg off because that person was born with only one leg but he kept ending up as ghost.
That may be true, but for me and only me, holding Sims at arm's length is a healthier place to be. They aren't me, I'm not them, and why silly or desperate things happening to them doesn't make me reflect all that much about life, and or real life, other than some human emotions and movements. The players I knew from the other games didn't consider the Sims extentions of themselves or anyone they knew, and why those games are much more quirky than these in many ways.
This game could be called The Avatar Game. It makes people want to be in the game themselves, and it blurs the lines of real and not real. Not so sure that is very healthy. Holding a game at arm's length allows the game to branch into places (like illness and silly deaths etc.) a more mature game about real life hardships would be too much to bear for some. And why it's better in my opinion to remember it's The Sims not you or me.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Just chiming because I think Cinebar is absolutely right. Sims aren’t people and people aren’t Sims. The supposed level if realism of disabilities and (God forbid) mental or terminal illnesses goes too far, imho. The game might be a life simulator, but does it need to simulate our whole life, misery and all?
Simmer since 2000! Sims 1, Sims, 2, Sims 3, Sims 4. Legacy player at heart.
There isn't one way to play or one way to process or feel. For me I want it for stories... I process emotions through that in some sense and of course entertain myself that way. Others may want it to live out something they don't have or relive it .. I remember seeing posts when toddlers where missing about things like this.. some simply wanted/needed them because they couldn't have kids. So if you want it to tell stories, or to represent yourself or someone in your life (and maybe to feel it's alright because you can), or to relive and possibly process something, or just to see some variation in life. It's all good.
There just is no right or wrong way.
With the controversy though I hope they do it like the gender patch. You chose if you want to make it happen in your game if you want. I think the free download idea is good except that people might want to use some of what is provided but not all.. perhaps they want to only use the some stuff as props. So those folks might miss out on tools or props if they refuse to download it because they don't want to see disability in their game. Something tells me though those that are against it.. many will still use it when it comes. In their own way.
Just chiming because I think Cinebar is absolutely right. Sims aren’t people and people aren’t Sims. The supposed level if realism of disabilities and (God forbid) mental or terminal illnesses goes too far, imho. The game might be a life simulator, but does it need to simulate our whole life, misery and all?
The Sims was quirky though they looked and acted like people and I don't recall too many people crying because their Sim burned up especially since it was all very quirky and Sims crying because some Sad Clown wouldn't shut up crying was hilarious.
That's life to the extreme and I do agree some things like an illness no one can cure isn't even a game I would play unless it had M on it, and I understood that may happen, and then that is a darker side of life in my opinion.
I think Sims are a god game and a life simulator but it's not all that disturbing to see a Sim die from laughter or see a Sim get fried because they used the energizer in TS2 at the wrong time. That was sort of funny. lol like cartoons, but seeing Sims suffer in human way and not some silly exaggeration is probably something I wouldn't play ,either. Not unless I was warned it was rated M. And I am a deviant player, I reserve all that darker stuff to custom content and even I have seen some stuff that was too gory and won't download it. Too bloody and gory. But for a story, maybe but probably not something I would have in my game all the time.
I just don't think it's very healthy, for me, to think of Sims as extentions of myself, because they aren't and I never want those lines blurred.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
If you consider that there are hundrends, if not thousands, of different disabilities that can be doubled if you think that each disabled human being has different degrees and shapes of the same disabilities it would take more than a single expansion pack to add it to the game. Also, each body deformation or mutilation would require new animations and each new expansion apck would require not jsut regular animations, but also variations of said animations for those body disabilities.
I mean, thats cool that they want to be inclusive, but at the same time its like trying to move a bee hive to a suitable place instead of your house... You have a great chance of being attacked by a revolted swarm despite trying to do the right thing.
You may say, "but you could hire professionals to deal with the bee hive/disabilities in game", but its not that easy if you don't have the proper amount of money to do they job. I think that no amout of money would be enough to implement such thing in the game without something being off.
Also, I have an ocular deformity that makes it difficult for me to see, and... hm... i dont know if i want to recreate that in the game. I used to recreate my self from time to time, but i wish i was able to have a good eyesight! Its sad, and frustrating, and its hard for me to study or read... I don't want to reacreate my self ill in the game.
If you consider that there are hundrends, if not thousands, of different disabilities that can be doubled if you think that each disabled human being has different degrees and shapes of the same disabilities it would take more than a single expansion pack to add it to the game. Also, each body deformation or mutilation would require new animations and each new expansion apck would require not jsut regular animations, but also variations of said animations for those body disabilities.
I mean, thats cool that they want to be inclusive, but at the same time its like trying to move a bee hive to a suitable place instead of your house... You have a great chance of being attacked by a revolted swarm despite trying to do the right thing.
You may say, "but you could hire professionals to deal with the bee hive/disabilities in game", but its not that easy if you don't have the proper amount of money to do they job. I think that no amout of money would be enough to implement such thing in the game without something being off.
I'm going to assume they do the bare minium. Some Sims in a wheelchair, but animations will cost money and there are those who would have preferred something else, and some Sims who are deaf and can use some sort of Sim sign language. Someone in this thread said one of the gurus had said steps would just turn into a ramp when a Sim in a chair approached it. Not sure how that would look or if it would be for all stair types in game or a particular set. I think whatever they do is going to use up resources and time and talent and deduct from other things other people were hoping to see. So, some will get what they wanted to play as a story, though they may not even be disabled but want this to tell stories, and others will be out of luck for things they were waiting to see, because as we all know things cost money, and time and resources, we saw that with how they created the laundry pack, so I'm not sure anyone wins here when maybe things like this should be considered at the beginning of a game's developement and not created later taking time out of other projects. But I'm sure it won't be as nice as some were hoping or what they expected, might be nice for those who want it, but then again it might wind up being disappointing and not what they expected> the gender patch clothes are a good example of disappointing for many. They are off and no way to look at it and doesn't even look like proper clothing fitting like it should look in size and how it folds around the body etc. I will say the reason is for shoehorning it in, in the first place, when if at the beginning of development they could have done some of those tops correctly.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
If you consider that there are hundrends, if not thousands, of different disabilities that can be doubled if you think that each disabled human being has different degrees and shapes of the same disabilities it would take more than a single expansion pack to add it to the game. Also, each body deformation or mutilation would require new animations and each new expansion apck would require not jsut regular animations, but also variations of said animations for those body disabilities.
I mean, thats cool that they want to be inclusive, but at the same time its like trying to move a bee hive to a suitable place instead of your house... You have a great chance of being attacked by a revolted swarm despite trying to do the right thing.
You may say, "but you could hire professionals to deal with the bee hive/disabilities in game", but its not that easy if you don't have the proper amount of money to do they job. I think that no amout of money would be enough to implement such thing in the game without something being off.
I'm going to assume they do the bare minium. Some Sims in a wheelchair, but animations will cost money and there are those who would have preferred something else, and some Sims who are deaf and can use some sort of Sim sign language. Someone in this thread said one of the gurus had said steps would just turn into a ramp when a Sim in a chair approached it. Not sure how that would look or if it would be for all stair types in game or a particular set. I think whatever they do is going to use up resources and time and talent and deduct from other things other people were hoping to see. So, some will get what they wanted to play as a story, though they may not even be disabled but want this to tell stories, and others will be out of luck for things they were waiting to see, because as we all know things cost money, and time and resources, we saw that with how they created the laundry pack, so I'm not sure anyone wins here when maybe things like this should be considered at the beginning of a game's developement and not created later taking time out of other projects. But I'm sure it won't be as nice as some were hoping or what they expected, might be nice for those who want it, but then again it might wind up being disappointing and not what they expected> the gender patch clothes are a good example of disappointing for many. They are off and no way to look at it and doesn't even look like proper clothing fitting like it should look in size and how it folds around the body etc. I will say the reason is for shoehorning it in, in the first place, when if at the beginning of development they could have done some of those tops correctly.
I've not read the thread or plan on commenting on the disabilities. I just need to say I have come to dislike the gender patch so much. I was happy at the idea of having more clothes and hair for both genders. That turned into frustration with how the clothes look and with that some clothes are marked for both genders even when they are clearly female. I've noticed the same with hairs from males, they look awful on female sims and are there just to annoy me so some unsuspecting townie can look annoying XD
If you consider that there are hundrends, if not thousands, of different disabilities that can be doubled if you think that each disabled human being has different degrees and shapes of the same disabilities it would take more than a single expansion pack to add it to the game. Also, each body deformation or mutilation would require new animations and each new expansion apck would require not jsut regular animations, but also variations of said animations for those body disabilities.
I mean, thats cool that they want to be inclusive, but at the same time its like trying to move a bee hive to a suitable place instead of your house... You have a great chance of being attacked by a revolted swarm despite trying to do the right thing.
You may say, "but you could hire professionals to deal with the bee hive/disabilities in game", but its not that easy if you don't have the proper amount of money to do they job. I think that no amout of money would be enough to implement such thing in the game without something being off.
I'm going to assume they do the bare minium. Some Sims in a wheelchair, but animations will cost money and there are those who would have preferred something else, and some Sims who are deaf and can use some sort of Sim sign language. Someone in this thread said one of the gurus had said steps would just turn into a ramp when a Sim in a chair approached it. Not sure how that would look or if it would be for all stair types in game or a particular set. I think whatever they do is going to use up resources and time and talent and deduct from other things other people were hoping to see. So, some will get what they wanted to play as a story, though they may not even be disabled but want this to tell stories, and others will be out of luck for things they were waiting to see, because as we all know things cost money, and time and resources, we saw that with how they created the laundry pack, so I'm not sure anyone wins here when maybe things like this should be considered at the beginning of a game's developement and not created later taking time out of other projects. But I'm sure it won't be as nice as some were hoping or what they expected, might be nice for those who want it, but then again it might wind up being disappointing and not what they expected> the gender patch clothes are a good example of disappointing for many. They are off and no way to look at it and doesn't even look like proper clothing fitting like it should look in size and how it folds around the body etc. I will say the reason is for shoehorning it in, in the first place, when if at the beginning of development they could have done some of those tops correctly.
I've not read the thread or plan on commenting on the disabilities. I just need to say I have come to dislike the gender patch so much. I was happy at the idea of having more clothes and hair for both genders. That turned into frustration with how the clothes look and with that some clothes are marked for both genders even when they are clearly female. I've noticed the same with hairs from males, they look awful on female sims and are there just to annoy me so some unsuspecting townie can look annoying XD
I just mentioned it because it was an idea they had after the base was already created, and some of those tops if males wear them look horrible. There have been many complaints about the shading around the chest and breats of those tops and it might have been better to fix that stuff before the game was ever released. I can see where a Sim who is disabled in a chair might need more animation adjustments added and not sure if they will remember all animations, object use and or things and interactions that happen in the game. That seems like a heck of a lot of work for a free patch. And well, gender patch clothes didn't turn out as well as most expected.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I do not understand why some of the simmers who don't want disability in the game appear to want to prevent those of us who do want it from having it.
It's exactly the same as if those who wanted toddlers, or vampires, or aliens, etc., were told by other simmers that they shouldn't be able to have those types of sims because the other simmers didn't approve of having those sims in the game. Exactly the same.
I am disabled. I have family members with psychiatric disabilities. I want both kinds of disabilities in my game, if EA is able to provide that.
At the same time, I don't want it forced on anyone who doesn't want it. Luckily, there are several possible (and proven) ways EA can put disabilities in the game for those of us who want that, while keeping disabilities out of the game for those of you who don't want it.
So why the insistence, from some simmers posting here, that those of us who want it must not be allowed to have it?
That, to me, isn't right. Each of us should be able to play the game as we like. I'm not trying to interfere in your game. Please, fellow simmers, don't try to interfere in mine.
eta: btw, I don't play simselves; my sims are imaginary people, not based on specific people I know.
I do not understand why some of the simmers who don't want disability in the game appear to want to prevent those of us who do want it from having it.
It's exactly the same as if those who wanted toddlers, or vampires, or aliens, etc., were told by other simmers that they shouldn't be able to have those types of sims because the other simmers didn't approve of having those sims in the game. Exactly the same.
I am disabled. I have family members with psychiatric disabilities. I want both kinds of disabilities in my game, if EA is able to provide that.
At the same time, I don't want it forced on anyone who doesn't want it. Luckily, there are several possible (and proven) ways EA can put disabilities in the game for those of us who want that, while keeping disabilities out of the game for those of you who don't want it.
So why the insistence, from some simmers posting here, that those of us who want it must not be allowed to have it?
That, to me, isn't right. Each of us should be able to play the game as we like. I'm not trying to interfere in your game. Please, fellow simmers, don't try to interfere in mine.
eta: btw, I don't play simselves; my sims are imaginary people, not based on specific people I know.
I think people don't want to be forced to play a particular way. I have no qualms if someone wants to play an entire vampire hood. Or one race over another. It's their game they should be able to play how ever they see fit. But what I have seen here is people who wanted diversity of just about everything we can think of look down upon others who didn't want it, no matter if it was a diverse population or vampires, or aliens or toddlers or whatever. I think this game has a way of making people feel bad about themselves when they don't want something and or want to play 'that' whatever it is.
It's sort of like pushing political correctness on them, and personally I feel that is wrong. Those who don't want something are just as equal to those who do want the game changed to something else. (I think some things belong in a more mature game.) And there are a lot of people not represented in this game, and the more reality you add the more you take away from quirkiness. It's a fine line.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@Cinebar - I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't and don't judge anyone for not wanting to have disabled sims in their game (or any other kind of sim).
EA has proven ways they can use to give us the option to have disabled sims in our game. As long as it's optional, both those who want it and those who don't can be accommodated.
@Cinebar - I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't and don't judge anyone for not wanting to have disabled sims in their game (or any other kind of sim).
EA has proven ways they can use to give us the option to have disabled sims in our game. As long as it's optional, both those who want it and those who don't can be accommodated.
Yes, I would assume they handle this through CAS and let players choose which disability their Sim has. I would guess that would be a way to do it. But then there will be those who won't feel represented if they don't see townies generated as disabled. Sometimes, and it's probably just me, I wish they would think of this stuff at the beginning instead of changing the game I buy and changing it up later. If that makes sense.
And this is very trival compared to disabilty discussions but like how they patched out alien abduction pregnancy (to non existance) later. I bought that pack for that very thing among other things. But it's so rare I only had one in three years. I just wish they would think of major changes first before we invest and play. Maybe in a future game it could be more mature and represent all sorts of people, bikers, criminals, murderers, disabled, terminally ill, really homeless etc. The hardships real people face, shoehorning stuff in later doesn't seem like it works for everybody.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@Cinebar - oh, is that why I've never had an alien-abduction pregnancy? Thought it was just my bad luck.
After the November patch, and after I see if Target/BestBuy/etc have a 50% sale for GF (missed the one for JA; still waiting for another half-off sale on that) -- I'm probably going to start using MCCC. I've enjoyed not having to use a mod to control bugs (Twallian saved my TS3 game with NRAAs), but now I need it to enjoy all the features, as well as to control some of the bugs.
Agree with you that it would have been much better if many of these options had been made toggable options, available at the start of either the BG or the pack they came with. To me, that's part of a sandbox game, after all.
I do not understand why some of the simmers who don't want disability in the game appear to want to prevent those of us who do want it from having it.
I think you're misreading some of what is being said.
I am disabled. I have family members with psychiatric disabilities. I want both kinds of disabilities in my game, if EA is able to provide that.
Imagine how including these things may effect someone who has them and uses the game as an escape from them.
At the same time, I don't want it forced on anyone who doesn't want it.
That's better.
Too many people seem to be on the verge of throwing a tantrum because they want to be represented, without sparing a thought for those who don't want their disabilities in the game.
Luckily, there are several possible (and proven) ways EA can put disabilities in the game for those of us who want that, while keeping disabilities out of the game for those of you who don't want it.
The trans stuff seems to have worked ok. You have to actively engage the system to have any of it in your game. If they were to repeat it in that manner, then it might work.
So why the insistence, from some simmers posting here, that those of us who want it must not be allowed to have it?
Because of the reverse?
People are playing the game fine without it.
Why should other people have their safe space disrupted just for the sake of a small percentage of the population?
That, to me, isn't right. Each of us should be able to play the game as we like.
The game is lacking a hell of a lot to be as I would like it. Where are my bands? Drums? Werewolves?
I'm not trying to interfere in your game.
But you are, if it's executed poorly.
Remember how vampires turned out? Sure they're awesome, but not everyone wants them in every game, and yet they still invade the homes of sims in saves where they have never been interacted with.
I really do question the developers ability to get it right.
They haven't even added more options for stair styles, how the heck would they include wheelchairs?
Mental illnesses are an incredibly sensitive topic, are they going to go dead serious with them, or purely cartoony? Any middle ground is likely to be highly offensive.
As I've mentioned before (either in this thread, or in others), I think they may be better off trialling shorter term debilitating illness and injuries. How would a sim with a broken leg get around? How would a sim with a broken arm do things? What if a sim was temporarily bed bound? How would that work?
I think an interesting way to implement it would be an area where you could decide your sims health. Neurodivergent? If so, it’ll take you to a list of symptoms you can click on to personalize the disability. For example a sim could be touch adverse and said sim would have a higher chance of rejecting a social involving touch and if initiated by that sim they could become tense. The player could buy gloves off the computer that can be worn by sims interacting with the touch averse sim or vise versa. This can make the TA sim react normally. The feature would extremely useful when dealing with a TA toddler.
Seeing the lazyness also the pseudo respectful of Maxis, if disabilities comes as part of a patch, as will no have an on/off option I bet the only disabled sims will be CAS made or downloaded from gallery, no generated in-game as npc or born
I honestly don't believe that they'll add in disabilities. At most maybe a cast for a few days on the arm or leg from a slip/fall or an elderly with a hearing aid. Anything bigger than that could cause a lot of controversy, with too many people offended if they went too far left or right on the disabilities. It's such a fine line to walk to be sensitive yet inclusive that I'm not sure they could pull it off.
I've suffered from depression for 10 years but I really don't want mental disabilities. I already pretend that the "Gloomy" trait is depression and that the trait which gives you quick changes in mood (both sad and happy, don't remember the name) is bipolar disorder etc.
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Do you really want to take this escape away from people who have serious health problems? If it's done wrong, it's not going to be fun for them.
If it's to be added, it has to be done very carefully. It needs to be done in a way that you can only have it in your game if you actively engage it. It should not automatically appear.
Personally, I'd rather there be more basic, illness and injury added, and the need to visit a doctor or hospital on occasion. Bunk beds should be added, with the risk that children can fall from them and break a limb, and be in a plaster cast for a couple of sim days. More light hearted stuff, not the cruel seriousness of terminal illness, disability, and mental health problems.
So what about the people who either a)want to be able make themselves in a wheelchair or b) with a prohtiesic limb? Don't they have the right to be able to create themselves and hate having to make a "not them" simself? Since they might view the wheelchair as a part of them like I do with my glasses (so I hate it when my simself changes into work clothes I'm suddenly wearing contacts??).
Actually I seen more people asking for disablties then I seen people opposed to it-there were 5-6 if not more different threads during the Sims 3 time and most of Sims 4 threads about the topic disappeared because of I believe SimtafferJessica only one didn't and that was because of a different ex-staffer who had to close it. You DO realize that the Sims team are/will be talking to DISABLED SIMMERS about how to add disabilities to the game? Grant said that they had talked to some wheelchair simmers to help with a design issue they're had, and he also mentioned in another tweet he's willing to listen to disabled people.
Terminal illnesses and mental disabilities are the parts where pretty much any way EA tries to do them will go poorly, that's what most of the pushback is against.
I do not want any kind of disabilities or terminal illnesses in a game I play to escape from life. I've dealt with disabilities all my life, depression for the last 15+ years and now anxiety, I don't want this in my game. I lost my Dad to cancer nine years ago- I don't need or want to see my Sims suffer a long-term terminal illness.
I can get behind making better use of the hospital/doctor career that came with GTW- give us broken bones and temporary injuries that make our sims need use crutches or even wheelchairs or take medication. Let our sims be able to visit the doctor when they're sick and get checkups. But no disabilities in any form please.
You know something, I think TS4 is about the only game where people make a lot of Simselves. I've been around a very long time and it seems to me TS4 is the game where people want to make themselves instead of playing Sims. I was on all the forums over the years, remember a lot about all those other forums and I rarely saw anyone in those older games creating themselves. We usually played Sims. Not ourselves. I wonder why that is? Just rambling, TS4 seems to make people want to play themselves where the other games were about Sims not real people and we all understood they lived in different world than our own, and though they mimicked life, they weren't us, and we weren't them. ETA: And I'm wondering if that mind set of they aren't us isn't healtheir than trying to play our avatar.
I saw a million different threads during the Sims 3 which had people who wanted to make their simselves with disabilities. One person even stated in one thread that they asked way at the beginning of the Sims series..about disabilities in the game but back then you had to eat only at the table or something to eat. Unlike now if we have a bathtub or something they're can eat there or on the toilet. One person said that during the Sims 2 they kept trying to take their simselves' leg off because that person was born with only one leg but he kept ending up as ghost.
That may be true, but for me and only me, holding Sims at arm's length is a healthier place to be. They aren't me, I'm not them, and why silly or desperate things happening to them doesn't make me reflect all that much about life, and or real life, other than some human emotions and movements. The players I knew from the other games didn't consider the Sims extentions of themselves or anyone they knew, and why those games are much more quirky than these in many ways.
This game could be called The Avatar Game. It makes people want to be in the game themselves, and it blurs the lines of real and not real. Not so sure that is very healthy. Holding a game at arm's length allows the game to branch into places (like illness and silly deaths etc.) a more mature game about real life hardships would be too much to bear for some. And why it's better in my opinion to remember it's The Sims not you or me.
There just is no right or wrong way.
With the controversy though I hope they do it like the gender patch. You chose if you want to make it happen in your game if you want. I think the free download idea is good except that people might want to use some of what is provided but not all.. perhaps they want to only use the some stuff as props. So those folks might miss out on tools or props if they refuse to download it because they don't want to see disability in their game. Something tells me though those that are against it.. many will still use it when it comes. In their own way.
The Sims was quirky though they looked and acted like people and I don't recall too many people crying because their Sim burned up especially since it was all very quirky and Sims crying because some Sad Clown wouldn't shut up crying was hilarious.
That's life to the extreme and I do agree some things like an illness no one can cure isn't even a game I would play unless it had M on it, and I understood that may happen, and then that is a darker side of life in my opinion.
I think Sims are a god game and a life simulator but it's not all that disturbing to see a Sim die from laughter or see a Sim get fried because they used the energizer in TS2 at the wrong time. That was sort of funny. lol like cartoons, but seeing Sims suffer in human way and not some silly exaggeration is probably something I wouldn't play ,either. Not unless I was warned it was rated M. And I am a deviant player, I reserve all that darker stuff to custom content and even I have seen some stuff that was too gory and won't download it. Too bloody and gory. But for a story, maybe but probably not something I would have in my game all the time.
I just don't think it's very healthy, for me, to think of Sims as extentions of myself, because they aren't and I never want those lines blurred.
I mean, thats cool that they want to be inclusive, but at the same time its like trying to move a bee hive to a suitable place instead of your house... You have a great chance of being attacked by a revolted swarm despite trying to do the right thing.
You may say, "but you could hire professionals to deal with the bee hive/disabilities in game", but its not that easy if you don't have the proper amount of money to do they job. I think that no amout of money would be enough to implement such thing in the game without something being off.
Also, I have an ocular deformity that makes it difficult for me to see, and... hm... i dont know if i want to recreate that in the game. I used to recreate my self from time to time, but i wish i was able to have a good eyesight! Its sad, and frustrating, and its hard for me to study or read... I don't want to reacreate my self ill in the game.
I'm going to assume they do the bare minium. Some Sims in a wheelchair, but animations will cost money and there are those who would have preferred something else, and some Sims who are deaf and can use some sort of Sim sign language. Someone in this thread said one of the gurus had said steps would just turn into a ramp when a Sim in a chair approached it. Not sure how that would look or if it would be for all stair types in game or a particular set. I think whatever they do is going to use up resources and time and talent and deduct from other things other people were hoping to see. So, some will get what they wanted to play as a story, though they may not even be disabled but want this to tell stories, and others will be out of luck for things they were waiting to see, because as we all know things cost money, and time and resources, we saw that with how they created the laundry pack, so I'm not sure anyone wins here when maybe things like this should be considered at the beginning of a game's developement and not created later taking time out of other projects. But I'm sure it won't be as nice as some were hoping or what they expected, might be nice for those who want it, but then again it might wind up being disappointing and not what they expected> the gender patch clothes are a good example of disappointing for many. They are off and no way to look at it and doesn't even look like proper clothing fitting like it should look in size and how it folds around the body etc. I will say the reason is for shoehorning it in, in the first place, when if at the beginning of development they could have done some of those tops correctly.
I've not read the thread or plan on commenting on the disabilities. I just need to say I have come to dislike the gender patch so much. I was happy at the idea of having more clothes and hair for both genders. That turned into frustration with how the clothes look and with that some clothes are marked for both genders even when they are clearly female. I've noticed the same with hairs from males, they look awful on female sims and are there just to annoy me so some unsuspecting townie can look annoying XD
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I just mentioned it because it was an idea they had after the base was already created, and some of those tops if males wear them look horrible. There have been many complaints about the shading around the chest and breats of those tops and it might have been better to fix that stuff before the game was ever released. I can see where a Sim who is disabled in a chair might need more animation adjustments added and not sure if they will remember all animations, object use and or things and interactions that happen in the game. That seems like a heck of a lot of work for a free patch. And well, gender patch clothes didn't turn out as well as most expected.
It's exactly the same as if those who wanted toddlers, or vampires, or aliens, etc., were told by other simmers that they shouldn't be able to have those types of sims because the other simmers didn't approve of having those sims in the game. Exactly the same.
I am disabled. I have family members with psychiatric disabilities. I want both kinds of disabilities in my game, if EA is able to provide that.
At the same time, I don't want it forced on anyone who doesn't want it. Luckily, there are several possible (and proven) ways EA can put disabilities in the game for those of us who want that, while keeping disabilities out of the game for those of you who don't want it.
So why the insistence, from some simmers posting here, that those of us who want it must not be allowed to have it?
That, to me, isn't right. Each of us should be able to play the game as we like. I'm not trying to interfere in your game. Please, fellow simmers, don't try to interfere in mine.
eta: btw, I don't play simselves; my sims are imaginary people, not based on specific people I know.
I think people don't want to be forced to play a particular way. I have no qualms if someone wants to play an entire vampire hood. Or one race over another. It's their game they should be able to play how ever they see fit. But what I have seen here is people who wanted diversity of just about everything we can think of look down upon others who didn't want it, no matter if it was a diverse population or vampires, or aliens or toddlers or whatever. I think this game has a way of making people feel bad about themselves when they don't want something and or want to play 'that' whatever it is.
It's sort of like pushing political correctness on them, and personally I feel that is wrong. Those who don't want something are just as equal to those who do want the game changed to something else. (I think some things belong in a more mature game.) And there are a lot of people not represented in this game, and the more reality you add the more you take away from quirkiness. It's a fine line.
EA has proven ways they can use to give us the option to have disabled sims in our game. As long as it's optional, both those who want it and those who don't can be accommodated.
Yes, I would assume they handle this through CAS and let players choose which disability their Sim has. I would guess that would be a way to do it. But then there will be those who won't feel represented if they don't see townies generated as disabled. Sometimes, and it's probably just me, I wish they would think of this stuff at the beginning instead of changing the game I buy and changing it up later. If that makes sense.
And this is very trival compared to disabilty discussions but like how they patched out alien abduction pregnancy (to non existance) later. I bought that pack for that very thing among other things. But it's so rare I only had one in three years. I just wish they would think of major changes first before we invest and play. Maybe in a future game it could be more mature and represent all sorts of people, bikers, criminals, murderers, disabled, terminally ill, really homeless etc. The hardships real people face, shoehorning stuff in later doesn't seem like it works for everybody.
After the November patch, and after I see if Target/BestBuy/etc have a 50% sale for GF (missed the one for JA; still waiting for another half-off sale on that) -- I'm probably going to start using MCCC. I've enjoyed not having to use a mod to control bugs (Twallian saved my TS3 game with NRAAs), but now I need it to enjoy all the features, as well as to control some of the bugs.
Agree with you that it would have been much better if many of these options had been made toggable options, available at the start of either the BG or the pack they came with. To me, that's part of a sandbox game, after all.
Imagine how including these things may effect someone who has them and uses the game as an escape from them.
That's better.
Too many people seem to be on the verge of throwing a tantrum because they want to be represented, without sparing a thought for those who don't want their disabilities in the game.
The trans stuff seems to have worked ok. You have to actively engage the system to have any of it in your game. If they were to repeat it in that manner, then it might work.
Because of the reverse?
People are playing the game fine without it.
Why should other people have their safe space disrupted just for the sake of a small percentage of the population?
The game is lacking a hell of a lot to be as I would like it. Where are my bands? Drums? Werewolves?
But you are, if it's executed poorly.
Remember how vampires turned out? Sure they're awesome, but not everyone wants them in every game, and yet they still invade the homes of sims in saves where they have never been interacted with.
I really do question the developers ability to get it right.
They haven't even added more options for stair styles, how the heck would they include wheelchairs?
Mental illnesses are an incredibly sensitive topic, are they going to go dead serious with them, or purely cartoony? Any middle ground is likely to be highly offensive.
As I've mentioned before (either in this thread, or in others), I think they may be better off trialling shorter term debilitating illness and injuries. How would a sim with a broken leg get around? How would a sim with a broken arm do things? What if a sim was temporarily bed bound? How would that work?
Seeing the lazyness also the pseudo respectful of Maxis, if disabilities comes as part of a patch, as will no have an on/off option I bet the only disabled sims will be CAS made or downloaded from gallery, no generated in-game as npc or born
it would be a tiny London with the sims 4