I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
@luthienrising I posted early in this thread a link to a Tweet Grant did and the Tweet Grant answer too was "I hope we don't have to pay for this" and the reply back was "We wouldn't charge for it" which sounds likely it would be coming in a patch simliar to the hoilday packs we gotten and the LBTQ patch
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
@luthienrising I posted early in this thread a link to a Tweet Grant did and the Tweet Grant answer too was "I hope we don't have to pay for this" and the reply back was "We wouldn't charge for it" which sounds likely it would be coming in a patch simliar to the hoilday packs we gotten and the LBTQ patch
That's awesome! I think that either something like the optional holiday packs or the LGBTQ patch, which is optional in its own way, would work for this. I hope they can find a way to get this into the game. I'm really curious to see how it would end up being done!
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
The solutions are bloody obvious.
so just because YOU don't want disabilities means the ones who want it (like me?) have to use non-moveable *bacon* CC? You know you can just ignore the *bacon* option?? I don't see when the LBTG patch had ever caused a problem OR the Hoilday packs..
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
The solutions are bloody obvious.
Of course. I'm just curious which they'll work with, and how. That's all. The gender patch worked in a way that you effectively have to toggle it on. How they decide to do this pack may be different; it really would, I imagine, come down to a similar balancing of the needs of all the different communities involved, and that balance may not work out the same as the gender options balance did. It could end up being a patch with an "off" switch, even. But I'm sure they've heard loud and clear that just as it's important for many Simmers with disabilities to represent themselves in game, it's also important to many others to not do that. We'll never know from things like discussion forums and online surveys which is a larger proportion of Simmers, or what outside groups representing communities with disabilities advise.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
The solutions are bloody obvious.
Of course. I'm just curious which they'll work with, and how. That's all. The gender patch worked in a way that you effectively have to toggle it on. How they decide to do this pack may be different; it really would, I imagine, come down to a similar balancing of the needs of all the different communities involved, and that balance may not work out the same as the gender options balance did. It could end up being a patch with an "off" switch, even. But I'm sure they've heard loud and clear that just as it's important for many Simmers with disabilities to represent themselves in game, it's also important to many others to not do that. We'll never know from things like discussion forums and online surveys which is a larger proportion of Simmers, or what outside groups representing communities with disabilities advise.
Thanks for that @luthienrising I just wish people would stop saying "use CC" since when something like CC wheelchairs can;t you know move?
I'm definitely interested to see how they tackle this, assuming they're going to. It's obviously a difficult subject with a lot of things to consider and I'm curious as to what they'll include and what they won't.
Personally, I think it'd be cool to see things like wheelchairs in the game, but I don't want to get bogged down with the specifics of why they're in a wheelchair or naming specific disorders. The options there would be to either do a lot of research into real life disorders and most likely be unable to implement it correctly, or make up fake disorders (like in Theme Hospital) which would seem kind of like making it a joke. For that reason, I also don't really want to see mental health disorders. Take depression for example - what could they do with it? The only way I can see to put that into sims 4 is by making a sim more prone to the sad emotion, which isn't what depression is (and also is just the gloomy trait). I just don't think that sims 4 is built to deal with these kinds of topics in depth. But I wouldn't mind seeing a more generic 'this sim needs a wheelchair' or 'this sim can only use sign language' thing without getting too caught up the little details.
When Grant talks about terminal disease is where I get a bit antsy. I know we have death in the Sims and clearly some people like to kill their Sims off (I don't) but I'd prefer to not have a Sim disease that's "like cancer but not" in my game. So I would hope that toggles would be available for this.
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
The solutions are bloody obvious.
so just because YOU don't want disabilities means the ones who want it (like me?) have to use non-moveable *bacon* CC? You know you can just ignore the *bacon* option?? I don't see when the LBTG patch had ever caused a problem OR the Hoilday packs..
No.
You're not seeing what I'm saying.
If disabilities are to be included, then they need to be optional
If it's a free pack, it should be optional to download, and put in your game. Don't force it.
Or, if we are forced to download it, there needs to be toggles than you need to toggle on to make it work (kinda like the gender stuff)
Disabilities are a very sensitive issue, and could be done in a very bad way.
When Grant talks about terminal disease is where I get a bit antsy. I know we have death in the Sims and clearly some people like to kill their Sims off (I don't) but I'd prefer to not have a Sim disease that's "like cancer but not" in my game. So I would hope that toggles would be available for this.
Even I wouldn't want a disease in the game where the player couldn't use their gray matter and figure out how to cure them. That might be a bit much. Even in the older original and TS2 though our Sim would die if we didn't get to their illness on time, and we never knew how long they had we could cure them, so, I'm not sure I would ever want something in the game where players had absolutely no way to save their Sim. It doesn't have to be so easy as the later games, but I think even I would be bothered by my favorite Sims (which I rarely let age) meet a death I couldn't cure. I think that one should be up to players, and not sure a toggle would be the right answer but maybe some strategy. And you are right, deaths in these games have been sort of silly, an incurable disease seems morbid and maybe too mature when we' ve always found a way to fix it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I’m not fond of the disabilities, but Grant’s mention of the terminal disease is too much for me. The whole idea of the Sims is that I’m playing “God” - me, not the devs that have included a disease. I want to be the one to decide when and how my Sims die and whether I cure them or not.
I feel these thing drift too far into realism, away from the sandbox game the Sims originally was.
Simmer since 2000! Sims 1, Sims, 2, Sims 3, Sims 4. Legacy player at heart.
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
The solutions are bloody obvious.
Of course. I'm just curious which they'll work with, and how. That's all. The gender patch worked in a way that you effectively have to toggle it on. How they decide to do this pack may be different; it really would, I imagine, come down to a similar balancing of the needs of all the different communities involved, and that balance may not work out the same as the gender options balance did. It could end up being a patch with an "off" switch, even. But I'm sure they've heard loud and clear that just as it's important for many Simmers with disabilities to represent themselves in game, it's also important to many others to not do that. We'll never know from things like discussion forums and online surveys which is a larger proportion of Simmers, or what outside groups representing communities with disabilities advise.
I hope that people remember that some disabled people use the game as an escape from their disability, they do not want disabilities in their game.
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
The solutions are bloody obvious.
Of course. I'm just curious which they'll work with, and how. That's all. The gender patch worked in a way that you effectively have to toggle it on. How they decide to do this pack may be different; it really would, I imagine, come down to a similar balancing of the needs of all the different communities involved, and that balance may not work out the same as the gender options balance did. It could end up being a patch with an "off" switch, even. But I'm sure they've heard loud and clear that just as it's important for many Simmers with disabilities to represent themselves in game, it's also important to many others to not do that. We'll never know from things like discussion forums and online surveys which is a larger proportion of Simmers, or what outside groups representing communities with disabilities advise.
Where is a toggle for gender patch?
there isn't the only toggle is choosing NOT to use female hair on male sims or vice versa
There aren't any buttons you can press to turn the gender patch off, but unless you deliberately and specifically chose to engage the advanced gender options they never get used. Systems that are wholly opt in are even better than pressing a button for a toggle.
I don’t want disabilities in the game. And I say that as someone with one. Terminal illnesses? No way. Not keen on mental illness being portrayed either for the same reason. Some of us play video games to escape not to bring real life issues into what would no doubt be a dumbed down, utopia version of it. The sims should remain a game and stop trying to be something that it isn’t so they can say “We are sooooo inclusive, give us a pat on the back” I don’t think it will be educational or enlightening for those who don’t have these problems and I would argue that’s it’s not the games place to do that, it’s just a way so they can look good.
Hm... I'll have to wait and see how this is implemented in the game before I can determine how much I want it. My probem is not with the idea itself. In theory I'd like to have disabled sims, they're just as much a part of the real world as various ethnicities and sexualities, and as long as they're an option instead of being forced on people who don't want to play with them for any reason whatsoever - so far, so good.
The problem I see is with playability. Even completely able-bodied sims take forever to do what you tell them, randomly drop things out of their queue, have routing issues, stupidly choose the bathroom sink five miles away to wash their dishes in rather than the perfectly functional dishwasher in the kitchen, etc. This is especially annoying when you have to be somewhere at a certain time (like work), and you theoretically did plan far enough ahead to make it, but your sims are still late because of their own stupidity. Now imagine the same thing with a blind or paraplegic sim... oh dear. That poor soul would never get anything done.
But hey, if that's an incentive for the developers to fix the sims' weird and unresponsive behaviour, then everyone would benefit from it, right?
I really don't want to see long term, terminal disease in the game at all. I almost didn't buy Get to Work just because I hated the inclusion of silly, everyday diseases that I can cure in seconds. It's one thing to make something an option in CAS. It's another to push it on existing Sims.
@MidnightAura I'm willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt that they really do mean to make more people feel included and represented in the game and weren't just going for a pat-on-the-back sort of thing. I'm not by any stretch saying that means they'll automatically do a great job, just that I believe intentions are good here. There's a ton of different feelings from people with a huge range of life experiences, and it seems to be something they're putting a lot of thought into and getting a lot of feedback on before they decide for sure.
Watch me mash together Sims and Pokémon to tell a story about battling glitches in Penny Saves Paldea. Updated every other Thursday.
I really don't want to see long term, terminal disease in the game at all. I almost didn't buy Get to Work just because I hated the inclusion of silly, everyday diseases that I can cure in seconds. It's one thing to make something an option in CAS. It's another to push it on existing Sims.
@MidnightAura I'm willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt that they really do mean to make more people feel included and represented in the game and weren't just going for a pat-on-the-back sort of thing. I'm not by any stretch saying that means they'll automatically do a great job, just that I believe intentions are good here. There's a ton of different feelings from people with a huge range of life experiences, and it seems to be something they're putting a lot of thought into and getting a lot of feedback on before they decide for sure.
especially since people been asking for this since the SIMS 1...
> @Irdiwen said: > I’m not fond of the disabilities, but Grant’s mention of the terminal disease is too much for me. The whole idea of the Sims is that I’m playing “God” - me, not the devs that have included a disease. I want to be the one to decide when and how my Sims die and whether I cure them or not. > > I feel these thing drift too far into realism, away from the sandbox game the Sims originally was.
I agree. I'm rather impartial about the disabilities, especially if there's a toggle option in case I don't like how it's incorporated, but I will absolutely not play a sims games that has terminal disease. I steer clear of fictional TV shows/books with that involved due to it hitting too close to home, and I certainly don't want to be forced to have it in my sims game.
Give me drama.....Give me burglars and break-ins, let me have sims angry for days over affairs and divorces, give me some more of the taste of darkness Vampires brought back to the series, even put disabilities on me if I can control them. But for the love of all that is decent, don't foist terminal illnesses on me.
I lost my Dad to cancer, I've lost other relatives and friends to long-term illnesses, and I currently spend five days a week caring for my elderly mother. When I fire up this game at the end of a long day, I just want to immerse myself in either building or playing out my silly sims' silly lives. I deal with so much in real life that I absolutely refuse to have it in my hobby too.
Comments
I suspect that part of the discussion that seems to be going on at Maxis (at least it sounds like that's happening) is working out how to take this into account, whether that's through an on/off switch or making it not a basegame patch but a paid pack or freepack. I'm sure they're going to work on getting this right like they did the gender addition.
@luthienrising I posted early in this thread a link to a Tweet Grant did and the Tweet Grant answer too was "I hope we don't have to pay for this" and the reply back was "We wouldn't charge for it" which sounds likely it would be coming in a patch simliar to the hoilday packs we gotten and the LBTQ patch
That's awesome! I think that either something like the optional holiday packs or the LGBTQ patch, which is optional in its own way, would work for this. I hope they can find a way to get this into the game. I'm really curious to see how it would end up being done!
A free pack that you aren't forced to download?
Actually including toggles, that you have to toggle ON to have the content included?
The solutions are bloody obvious.
so just because YOU don't want disabilities means the ones who want it (like me?) have to use non-moveable *bacon* CC? You know you can just ignore the *bacon* option?? I don't see when the LBTG patch had ever caused a problem OR the Hoilday packs..
Of course. I'm just curious which they'll work with, and how. That's all. The gender patch worked in a way that you effectively have to toggle it on. How they decide to do this pack may be different; it really would, I imagine, come down to a similar balancing of the needs of all the different communities involved, and that balance may not work out the same as the gender options balance did. It could end up being a patch with an "off" switch, even. But I'm sure they've heard loud and clear that just as it's important for many Simmers with disabilities to represent themselves in game, it's also important to many others to not do that. We'll never know from things like discussion forums and online surveys which is a larger proportion of Simmers, or what outside groups representing communities with disabilities advise.
Thanks for that @luthienrising I just wish people would stop saying "use CC" since when something like CC wheelchairs can;t you know move?
Personally, I think it'd be cool to see things like wheelchairs in the game, but I don't want to get bogged down with the specifics of why they're in a wheelchair or naming specific disorders. The options there would be to either do a lot of research into real life disorders and most likely be unable to implement it correctly, or make up fake disorders (like in Theme Hospital) which would seem kind of like making it a joke. For that reason, I also don't really want to see mental health disorders. Take depression for example - what could they do with it? The only way I can see to put that into sims 4 is by making a sim more prone to the sad emotion, which isn't what depression is (and also is just the gloomy trait). I just don't think that sims 4 is built to deal with these kinds of topics in depth. But I wouldn't mind seeing a more generic 'this sim needs a wheelchair' or 'this sim can only use sign language' thing without getting too caught up the little details.
No.
You're not seeing what I'm saying.
If disabilities are to be included, then they need to be optional
If it's a free pack, it should be optional to download, and put in your game. Don't force it.
Or, if we are forced to download it, there needs to be toggles than you need to toggle on to make it work (kinda like the gender stuff)
Disabilities are a very sensitive issue, and could be done in a very bad way. And that worked reasonably well. It's the most obvious solution, to repeat a system that already works.
Which would be fantastic.
I wish they could also do the same with vampires, cos as much as I love them, I don't want them in every save
And it would be a patch the size of several EPs if they were do do it right.
Even I wouldn't want a disease in the game where the player couldn't use their gray matter and figure out how to cure them. That might be a bit much. Even in the older original and TS2 though our Sim would die if we didn't get to their illness on time, and we never knew how long they had we could cure them, so, I'm not sure I would ever want something in the game where players had absolutely no way to save their Sim. It doesn't have to be so easy as the later games, but I think even I would be bothered by my favorite Sims (which I rarely let age) meet a death I couldn't cure. I think that one should be up to players, and not sure a toggle would be the right answer but maybe some strategy. And you are right, deaths in these games have been sort of silly, an incurable disease seems morbid and maybe too mature when we' ve always found a way to fix it.
I feel these thing drift too far into realism, away from the sandbox game the Sims originally was.
Where is a toggle for gender patch?
there isn't the only toggle is choosing NOT to use female hair on male sims or vice versa
The problem I see is with playability. Even completely able-bodied sims take forever to do what you tell them, randomly drop things out of their queue, have routing issues, stupidly choose the bathroom sink five miles away to wash their dishes in rather than the perfectly functional dishwasher in the kitchen, etc. This is especially annoying when you have to be somewhere at a certain time (like work), and you theoretically did plan far enough ahead to make it, but your sims are still late because of their own stupidity. Now imagine the same thing with a blind or paraplegic sim... oh dear. That poor soul would never get anything done.
But hey, if that's an incentive for the developers to fix the sims' weird and unresponsive behaviour, then everyone would benefit from it, right?
Something wicked this way comes!
I don't use MCCC.
@MidnightAura I'm willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt that they really do mean to make more people feel included and represented in the game and weren't just going for a pat-on-the-back sort of thing. I'm not by any stretch saying that means they'll automatically do a great job, just that I believe intentions are good here. There's a ton of different feelings from people with a huge range of life experiences, and it seems to be something they're putting a lot of thought into and getting a lot of feedback on before they decide for sure.
especially since people been asking for this since the SIMS 1...
> I’m not fond of the disabilities, but Grant’s mention of the terminal disease is too much for me. The whole idea of the Sims is that I’m playing “God” - me, not the devs that have included a disease. I want to be the one to decide when and how my Sims die and whether I cure them or not.
>
> I feel these thing drift too far into realism, away from the sandbox game the Sims originally was.
I agree. I'm rather impartial about the disabilities, especially if there's a toggle option in case I don't like how it's incorporated, but I will absolutely not play a sims games that has terminal disease. I steer clear of fictional TV shows/books with that involved due to it hitting too close to home, and I certainly don't want to be forced to have it in my sims game.
I lost my Dad to cancer, I've lost other relatives and friends to long-term illnesses, and I currently spend five days a week caring for my elderly mother. When I fire up this game at the end of a long day, I just want to immerse myself in either building or playing out my silly sims' silly lives. I deal with so much in real life that I absolutely refuse to have it in my hobby too.