lol forgot about that (carnt be to hard for a big company to talk to someone in the Aboriginal community) it is double and would fit in with the cultural diversity theme.
lol forgot about that (carnt be to hard for a big company to talk to someone in the Aboriginal community) it is double and would fit in with the cultural diversity theme.
You're assuming they're a singular community. They're not. Just because one community says yes, doesn't mean all the others would agree.
Hate to say it, but neither of these answers make me any clearer on the holdup. Since when can you copyright an instrument? And so what if it's an indigenous cultural item?
Hate to say it, but neither of these answers make me any clearer on the holdup. Since when can you copyright an instrument? And so what if it's an indigenous cultural item?
You can get the pants sued off you for disrespecting an indigenous culture. We're talking about an instrument that comes from a very small part of an indigenous culture, it's not from anywhere else, and it is of great significance to them. It's not a mass produced item.
Other peoples culture is not a plaything. Why do you think such a big deal has been made about wearing certain costumes at halloween?
Try to have a little respect. They have the oldest ongoing culture in the world, and it's been trampled on too much in the last couple of hundred years.
You can get the pants sued off you for disrespecting an indigenous culture. We're talking about an instrument that comes from a very small part of an indigenous culture, it's not from anywhere else, and it is of great significance to them. It's not a mass produced item.
Other peoples culture is not a plaything. Why do you think such a big deal has been made about wearing certain costumes at halloween?
Try to have a little respect. They have the oldest ongoing culture in the world, and it's been trampled on too much in the last couple of hundred years.
So would it be disrespectful just to use the instrument and have sims be capable of playing music on it? That seems utterly ridiculous to me.
Try not to assume I'm disrespectful automatically because I don't immediately fall into step with what you believe.
Should the cellphone obsession in American culture (and others like it) not be referenced because "other peoples' culture is not a plaything"? Where do you suddenly get permission to include one bit of culture, but not another? Who is drawing the line?
And I know some people make a big deal about costumes, but I think the upset about it is absurd. People do it to have fun. They aren't making a political statement. It's part of their culture. Or are they supposed to change their culture because it accidentally might offend someone else's culture? You see how absurd this kind of thinking can start getting? In fact, you can see it linked to a kind of belief of superiority, most likely going back to the colonial period. It assumes that "western" culture is the default one and all others are secondary, so it's the job of westerners to adapt their culture to make sure they aren't making fun of these "inferior" cultures. As if these "secondary" cultures are too weak and fragile to handle another culture misunderstanding some aspect of what they are. Even though these "secondary" cultures undoubtedly misunderstand aspects of other cultures themselves. As all cultures do.
I'm sorry it's been trampled on, but it's not one culture's job to tiptoe around everybody else. That kind of thinking is what gets cultures so terribly disrespected in the first place. You might gain people not portraying things in pop culture in an "offensive" manner, but you lose perspective in the process and you end up with the same problem that got you there in the first place; people thinking that their culture is primary and others are secondary because it's their job to "watch over" and "take care of" the "lesser" cultures.
It's far more effective to simply find ways to teach people about other cultures in accurate detail, so that they have an understanding of them beyond stereotypes. And a mass market video game is probably not going to be the place that happens.
Oh and one more thought... regarding it being a "plaything." Some years ago, I learned a little bit (mostly forgotten now as a lot of my education's details are) about the Didgeridoo in a college class). I thought it was cool and fascinating. I think it'd be cool to be able to play that kind of music in a game like this. That's not me treating a culture as a plaything, that's me taking an interest in their culture.
And speaking of respect, what is defined as respectful is going to vary from culture to culture, which makes the whole thing so much more complicated than either of us are making it sound.
There are didgeridoo festivals all over Europe, for example in Austria, Germany, Switzerland and Spain. Lots of practitioners have no indigenous background, and you can buy "didgeridoos" as touristy items, though they're not quite the authentic style hand crafted by Aboriginals.
I don't understand this moaning most of the time about "It's my culture, get away from it !" I don't understand why everyone can't share in wonderful cultural aspects, as long as it's done respectfully, rather than having people always shoo others away from it all the time.
And i its the case of copyrighting instruments, why hasn't Italy forbidden anyone from adding piano's , violin's , cello's or viola's to any games, or restricted people from playing it ?
Seriously folks, don't go jumping down my throat about this just because I pointed out that they'd have to seek permission from the indigenous culture that, for whom the instrument has cultural significance.
If you have issue with the concept, take it up with the indigenous communities of Australia.
That's not me treating a culture as a plaything, that's me taking an interest in their culture.
Playing with a culturally significant item in a game, is very much so treating a culture as a plaything.
If you have interest in their culture, come visit, money from tourism does a lot more to help them than ripping off their artefacts in a game.
There are didgeridoo festivals all over Europe, for example in Austria, Germany, Switzerland and Spain. Lots of practitioners have no indigenous background, and you can buy "didgeridoos" as touristy items, though they're not quite the authentic style hand crafted by Aboriginals.
I don't understand this moaning most of the time about "It's my culture, get away from it !" I don't understand why everyone can't share in wonderful cultural aspects, as long as it's done respectfully, rather than having people always shoo others away from it all the time.
The cheap knockoffs take from the income of the indigenous artists.
You can buy the real deal from them, and they're ok with sharing their culture that way. But the mass produced crap versions don't do anything to help them.
And i its the case of copyrighting instruments, why hasn't Italy forbidden anyone from adding piano's , violin's , cello's or viola's to any games, or restricted people from playing it ?
Perhaps because they don't have the same cultural significance? Perhaps because they've already been sharing their instruments since they were invented. Perhaps because their instruments don't contain sacred imagery? Perhaps because "Italy" was a part of the holy roman empire, and was under rule of German emperors?
Take it up with the italians if you want the full story, I'm just some stupid Aussie who get's jumped on for pointing out a little detail.
And getting back on topic.
DRUMS!
I've been wanting a drum kit included since forever.
Seriously folks, don't go jumping down my throat about this just because I pointed out that they'd have to seek permission from the indigenous culture that, for whom the instrument has cultural significance.
If you have issue with the concept, take it up with the indigenous communities of Australia.
Playing with a culturally significant item in a game, is very much so treating a culture as a plaything.
If you have interest in their culture, come visit, money from tourism does a lot more to help them than ripping off their artefacts in a game.
The cheap knockoffs take from the income of the indigenous artists.
You can buy the real deal from them, and they're ok with sharing their culture that way. But the mass produced plum versions don't do anything to help them.
Perhaps because they don't have the same cultural significance? Perhaps because they've already been sharing their instruments since they were invented. Perhaps because their instruments don't contain sacred imagery? Perhaps because "Italy" was a part of the holy roman empire, and was under rule of German emperors?
Take it up with the italians if you want the full story, I'm just some plum Aussie who get's jumped on for pointing out a little detail.
And getting back on topic.
DRUMS!
I've been wanting a drum kit included since forever.
Getting jumped on? You said to me, "Try to have a little respect" because I asked a question that you didn't like. Don't go acting like you're getting jumped on when your position is challenged.
And again, statements like, "money from tourism does a lot more to help them than ripping off their artefacts in a game." You're making it sound like 1) They need the help of "more capable" cultures and 2) their "artifacts" are just merchandise that they have to use to stay together financially by selling to tourists, not the special cultural artifact that you make it out to be.
Both might have some truth to them, but it just conveys the idea that they are a helpless people who need other cultures to take care of them.
Furthermore, if they do gain from people buying authentically-made didgeridoo's, why would portraying them in a virtual game hurt them? Wouldn't it give more exposure and cause more people to want to pay them a visit and buy an authentic didgeridoo?
If you want to present an argument that they are being taken advantage of by other cultures, that's one thing and it may be true (though this probably isn't the place to do it). However, putting responsibility on individuals who happen to belong to a particular culture is asinine. It is not my responsibility to financially support other cultures. I have enough problems of my own to worry about. If I was wealthy, sure, prod me about it all you want. Most people aren't.
Both might have some truth to them, but it just conveys the idea that they are a helpless people who need other cultures to take care of them.
They're not helpless, and their culture is valued a great deal more here in Aussieland than some make it out to be. But there's always someone ready to scream "cultural appropriation / disrespect / this weeks buzzword!!" the moment you try to participate in what actually is a really awesome and beautiful culture.
Some folks seem to want to treat cultural aspects like a museum piece. Look but don't touch. And that's sad.
Getting jumped on? You said to me, "Try to have a little respect" because I asked a question that you didn't like. Don't go acting like you're getting jumped on when your position is challenged.
I was speaking in general.
Do you have respect for indigenous cultures? Perhaps you're feeling the way you do, because you do not.
So, please, try to have a little respect. Just try it, just a little bit.
And again, statements like, "money from tourism does a lot more to help them than ripping off their artefacts in a game." You're making it sound like 1) They need the help of "more capable" cultures and 2) their "artifacts" are just merchandise that they have to use to stay together financially by selling to tourists, not the special cultural artifact that you make it out to be.
Learn more about them, and maybe you'd understand.
Both might have some truth to them, but it just conveys the idea that they are a helpless people who need other cultures to take care of them.
Read up on recent history, and maybe you'd understand.
Furthermore, if they do gain from people buying authentically-made didgeridoo's, why would portraying them in a virtual game hurt them? Wouldn't it give more exposure and cause more people to want to pay them a visit and buy an authentic didgeridoo?
Are they going to get paid for the virtual version?
It's like that "do your art/craft for free, for me, and I'll promote your work, it'll give you more exposure" that arts and crafts people hear all the time. Exposure doesn't pay the bills.
If you want to present an argument that they are being taken advantage of by other cultures
The point I was making, is that other peoples cultures, their art, their items, their clothing, are not for your(as in anyones) entertainment.
Their cultural items have significance to them, and as such, should be respected. For the item to be used in the game, permission would have to be sought, but may not be granted, or may run into conflict if communities do not agree on said permission.
I wasn't trying to start an argument, just pointing out the reality of wanting to use items from a culture that does not like to have their culture used in such a way.
Now, please, can we return to the awesome topic of DRUMS?
(Cos drums are cool, and really are what matters in this thread)
Sorry to everyone about the bit of derailing that occurred.
Getting jumped on? You said to me, "Try to have a little respect" because I asked a question that you didn't like. Don't go acting like you're getting jumped on when your position is challenged.
I was speaking in general.
Do you have respect for indigenous cultures? Perhaps you're feeling the way you do, because you do not.
So, please, try to have a little respect. Just try it, just a little bit.
And again, statements like, "money from tourism does a lot more to help them than ripping off their artefacts in a game." You're making it sound like 1) They need the help of "more capable" cultures and 2) their "artifacts" are just merchandise that they have to use to stay together financially by selling to tourists, not the special cultural artifact that you make it out to be.
Learn more about them, and maybe you'd understand.
Both might have some truth to them, but it just conveys the idea that they are a helpless people who need other cultures to take care of them.
Read up on recent history, and maybe you'd understand.
Furthermore, if they do gain from people buying authentically-made didgeridoo's, why would portraying them in a virtual game hurt them? Wouldn't it give more exposure and cause more people to want to pay them a visit and buy an authentic didgeridoo?
Are they going to get paid for the virtual version?
It's like that "do your art/craft for free, for me, and I'll promote your work, it'll give you more exposure" that arts and crafts people hear all the time. Exposure doesn't pay the bills.
If you want to present an argument that they are being taken advantage of by other cultures
The point I was making, is that other peoples cultures, their art, their items, their clothing, are not for your(as in anyones) entertainment.
Their cultural items have significance to them, and as such, should be respected. For the item to be used in the game, permission would have to be sought, but may not be granted, or may run into conflict if communities do not agree on said permission.
I wasn't trying to start an argument, just pointing out the reality of wanting to use items from a culture that does not like to have their culture used in such a way.
Now, please, can we return to the awesome topic of DRUMS?
Both might have some truth to them, but it just conveys the idea that they are a helpless people who need other cultures to take care of them.
They're not helpless, and their culture is valued a great deal more here in Aussieland than some make it out to be. But there's always someone ready to scream "cultural appropriation / disrespect / this weeks buzzword!!" the moment you try to participate in what actually is a really awesome and beautiful culture.
Some folks seem to want to treat cultural aspects like a museum piece. Look but don't touch. And that's sad.
Political correctness in action.
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
Both might have some truth to them, but it just conveys the idea that they are a helpless people who need other cultures to take care of them.
They're not helpless, and their culture is valued a great deal more here in Aussieland than some make it out to be. But there's always someone ready to scream "cultural appropriation / disrespect / this weeks buzzword!!" the moment you try to participate in what actually is a really awesome and beautiful culture.
Some folks seem to want to treat cultural aspects like a museum piece. Look but don't touch. And that's sad.
Political correctness in action.
I would like to add that I would love to see drums in the game!
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
I wonder by the way if the creators realized the sensibilities concerning the instrument in my avatar (the pungi). Apparently those are part of some serious animal cruelty. As for the didgeridoo, I’m with Pary and ehaught58 here. I genuinely wonder if this political correctness has something to do with some severe incorrectness in the past more than anything else
Just because we can doesn't mean we should!
I've never seen anyone playing drums on street corners and I don't want this to become a thing in my game either.
Next thing you know a guest could come to your house and start playing drums in your kitchen. It was in his pocket!
the solution would be options for the player, as with everything in a sims game
the devs "could" make ALL things taggable as "carryables" if not tagged then a sim wouldn't carry that object at all
but i suppose - as with every option in TS4 - either it won't be included (bc too hard & too expensive ), even if in best case it takes YEARS to accomplish it & then it will be another portal for more new bugs crawling the game
i still don't think, less options, less objects, less interactions, less gameplay, less things to do for sims is the right direction making most simmers happy
& they should also add bongos btw
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
Comments
lol forgot about that (carnt be to hard for a big company to talk to someone in the Aboriginal community) it is double and would fit in with the cultural diversity theme.
You're assuming they're a singular community. They're not. Just because one community says yes, doesn't mean all the others would agree.
(edit for typo)
Copyright laws is why.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Other peoples culture is not a plaything. Why do you think such a big deal has been made about wearing certain costumes at halloween?
Try to have a little respect. They have the oldest ongoing culture in the world, and it's been trampled on too much in the last couple of hundred years.
Try not to assume I'm disrespectful automatically because I don't immediately fall into step with what you believe.
Should the cellphone obsession in American culture (and others like it) not be referenced because "other peoples' culture is not a plaything"? Where do you suddenly get permission to include one bit of culture, but not another? Who is drawing the line?
And I know some people make a big deal about costumes, but I think the upset about it is absurd. People do it to have fun. They aren't making a political statement. It's part of their culture. Or are they supposed to change their culture because it accidentally might offend someone else's culture? You see how absurd this kind of thinking can start getting? In fact, you can see it linked to a kind of belief of superiority, most likely going back to the colonial period. It assumes that "western" culture is the default one and all others are secondary, so it's the job of westerners to adapt their culture to make sure they aren't making fun of these "inferior" cultures. As if these "secondary" cultures are too weak and fragile to handle another culture misunderstanding some aspect of what they are. Even though these "secondary" cultures undoubtedly misunderstand aspects of other cultures themselves. As all cultures do.
I'm sorry it's been trampled on, but it's not one culture's job to tiptoe around everybody else. That kind of thinking is what gets cultures so terribly disrespected in the first place. You might gain people not portraying things in pop culture in an "offensive" manner, but you lose perspective in the process and you end up with the same problem that got you there in the first place; people thinking that their culture is primary and others are secondary because it's their job to "watch over" and "take care of" the "lesser" cultures.
It's far more effective to simply find ways to teach people about other cultures in accurate detail, so that they have an understanding of them beyond stereotypes. And a mass market video game is probably not going to be the place that happens.
Oh and one more thought... regarding it being a "plaything." Some years ago, I learned a little bit (mostly forgotten now as a lot of my education's details are) about the Didgeridoo in a college class). I thought it was cool and fascinating. I think it'd be cool to be able to play that kind of music in a game like this. That's not me treating a culture as a plaything, that's me taking an interest in their culture.
And speaking of respect, what is defined as respectful is going to vary from culture to culture, which makes the whole thing so much more complicated than either of us are making it sound.
I don't understand this moaning most of the time about "It's my culture, get away from it !" I don't understand why everyone can't share in wonderful cultural aspects, as long as it's done respectfully, rather than having people always shoo others away from it all the time.
And i its the case of copyrighting instruments, why hasn't Italy forbidden anyone from adding piano's , violin's , cello's or viola's to any games, or restricted people from playing it ?
PoppySims Archive
InnaLisa Pose Archive
Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
I ♡ Pudding
If you have issue with the concept, take it up with the indigenous communities of Australia.
Playing with a culturally significant item in a game, is very much so treating a culture as a plaything.
If you have interest in their culture, come visit, money from tourism does a lot more to help them than ripping off their artefacts in a game.
The cheap knockoffs take from the income of the indigenous artists.
You can buy the real deal from them, and they're ok with sharing their culture that way. But the mass produced crap versions don't do anything to help them.
Perhaps because they don't have the same cultural significance? Perhaps because they've already been sharing their instruments since they were invented. Perhaps because their instruments don't contain sacred imagery? Perhaps because "Italy" was a part of the holy roman empire, and was under rule of German emperors?
Take it up with the italians if you want the full story, I'm just some stupid Aussie who get's jumped on for pointing out a little detail.
And getting back on topic.
DRUMS!
I've been wanting a drum kit included since forever.
And again, statements like, "money from tourism does a lot more to help them than ripping off their artefacts in a game." You're making it sound like 1) They need the help of "more capable" cultures and 2) their "artifacts" are just merchandise that they have to use to stay together financially by selling to tourists, not the special cultural artifact that you make it out to be.
Both might have some truth to them, but it just conveys the idea that they are a helpless people who need other cultures to take care of them.
Furthermore, if they do gain from people buying authentically-made didgeridoo's, why would portraying them in a virtual game hurt them? Wouldn't it give more exposure and cause more people to want to pay them a visit and buy an authentic didgeridoo?
If you want to present an argument that they are being taken advantage of by other cultures, that's one thing and it may be true (though this probably isn't the place to do it). However, putting responsibility on individuals who happen to belong to a particular culture is asinine. It is not my responsibility to financially support other cultures. I have enough problems of my own to worry about. If I was wealthy, sure, prod me about it all you want. Most people aren't.
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They're not helpless, and their culture is valued a great deal more here in Aussieland than some make it out to be. But there's always someone ready to scream "cultural appropriation / disrespect / this weeks buzzword!!" the moment you try to participate in what actually is a really awesome and beautiful culture.
Some folks seem to want to treat cultural aspects like a museum piece. Look but don't touch. And that's sad.
PoppySims Archive
InnaLisa Pose Archive
Devolution of Sims - a once customisable open world sandbox which has become a DLC Party catalog in a shoebox
I ♡ Pudding
Do you have respect for indigenous cultures? Perhaps you're feeling the way you do, because you do not.
So, please, try to have a little respect. Just try it, just a little bit.
Learn more about them, and maybe you'd understand.
Read up on recent history, and maybe you'd understand.
Are they going to get paid for the virtual version?
It's like that "do your art/craft for free, for me, and I'll promote your work, it'll give you more exposure" that arts and crafts people hear all the time. Exposure doesn't pay the bills.
The point I was making, is that other peoples cultures, their art, their items, their clothing, are not for your(as in anyones) entertainment.
Their cultural items have significance to them, and as such, should be respected. For the item to be used in the game, permission would have to be sought, but may not be granted, or may run into conflict if communities do not agree on said permission.
I wasn't trying to start an argument, just pointing out the reality of wanting to use items from a culture that does not like to have their culture used in such a way.
Now, please, can we return to the awesome topic of DRUMS?
(Cos drums are cool, and really are what matters in this thread)
Sorry to everyone about the bit of derailing that occurred.
Ok.
DRUMS!!!!
Political correctness in action.
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
the solution would be options for the player, as with everything in a sims game
the devs "could" make ALL things taggable as "carryables" if not tagged then a sim wouldn't carry that object at all
but i suppose - as with every option in TS4 - either it won't be included (bc too hard & too expensive
i still don't think, less options, less objects, less interactions, less gameplay, less things to do for sims is the right direction making most simmers happy
& they should also add bongos btw
To be fair, Sims 4 is the base game with the most instruments, although so far the only EP "instrument" is singing.
Race Against the Clock: Can your elder sim turn back the clock before their time runs out?