As far as I'm concerned, you can't sit there and be outraged now that they don't listen, if you haven't been outraged at their not listening (and they do to a degree) since the beginning of TS3. It's a contradiction in terms. Doesn't matter how awesome the game might be or not. The same solution should apply. You either stand there screaming about it, or you try and find a way of fixing it. If you can't fix it then you accept it, but you can't be outraged for something they've been doing for years.
Simple.
Erm ... really? That isn't a contradiction in terms, that's just a different way of responding to something that may've very well been going on for much longer than TS4, but is nonetheless something very, very real to people. And of course it matters how awesome the game is? Look, if a company doesn't listen to me but puts out a product decent enough for me to enjoy at least 80 to 90% of it, I'm not going to spend my time on forums complaining about bugs. That doesn't mean that when that same company, still not listening to me, puts out another product in that same series that is content-wise far less good but charged at a much higher price, I am not allowed to respond differently this time around. The "silence" isn't all we're responding to. There's nothing contradictory about that. It means that no matter what they weren't listening to the first time clearly bothered me (and many, many others) far less. You don't lose your right to have an opinion or to complain about certain company practices just because they haven't bothered you from the very first moment they started happening. That makes absolutely no sense, I'm sorry.
I didn't say you lose your right to your opinion. Now you're dissatisfied, it's more important that they listen. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the time limited offer of your feedback however. It doesn't change that you won't get an answer, and it doesn't change that it doesn't change the game.
The old forums weren't exactly sunshine and lollipops, but I think that depends on who's opinion you ask. You're still talking to somebody who made a positivity thread one day because everyone was complaining that day.
I wish everyone good luck with their shouting and outrage. I don't think anybody's getting an apology for anything. I'm out.
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
My impression is that there's been a phasing in of the regulations. I didn't see in what I read what portions were older, what were not-till-2018. And I do have the impression that it's pretty common to not wait till the last minute to switch systems, and that once you have, you have. That's as much as I know about the situation, though. Most of what I've seen written up in the business press has been larger-scale issues around the process of getting to new standards in the first place.
That booklet is a whole new law not to go into affect until 2018. Just keep in mind even that is not set in stone as these things can be amended and changed many times before they go into effective law... in otherwise until that date comes, period. They could even be tossed out - especially in the light of a major change in government. You never know - so it is rather foolish to adhere to something that does not even exist as of yet. The rest of EA does not seem to follow any of this as of yet.
I might have misunderstood the phase-in bit. I doubt that any of this is getting tossed out, though - this is, IIRC, part of a set of standards that's involved complex international legislation. And yes, it exists. The deadline for implementation is a deadline, not a beginning. I would imagine few companies are waiting for the deadline and then hitting "go" on the new system. That can go wrong. (I've seen it happen in other kinds of regulation-change scenarios with a deadline for implementation.) I'd be concerned if I knew a company I invested in was waiting to the deadline to implement a major shift in regulatory standards that they'd had years to phase in.
I don't follow other parts of EA to know who's using this, looking at announcement times of basegame updates. (Most of what's in the regulations is going to be invisible to consumers, from what I looked at.) Which other of their products make major basegame changes that consumers would hear about in advance?
All their sports games for one thing - have new main game every year....
Those are new games, not updates.
(Typo. On so few words. Coffee.)
Not actually they are a series only they result in a new base game every year. Believe me many family members buy many of the EA Sports games. They just get a new base game every year while we get a new base game every 4-6 years. They at least always, always keep the old but improve on all the new and overall game appearance, making it better and better constantly - as a base game should be. They are graphically improved - new players added as the real sport adds them, as are new rules as the real sport adds them... as any series base game usually evolves.
Honestly - my husbands Madden games - he could have one being played from 12 years ago and then put in the newest version and visibly there is not a whole lot different to me other then much more realistic look. Same game, same uniforms pretty much, just some different players. It looks a bit more like watching the game on tv as the graphics are amazing now - but other than that - not much has changed in years. Still he buys the new version every year. He's a sport nut. LOL. Oh and anything new in the game he knows before he's bought it. No secrets at EA Sports. The new one comes tomorrow - but on EA sports there is a section called what is new in Madden 17 and it lists/shows all that is new. I assure you my hubby will not go into any Madden game and say "where's this or that? Why are we missing_____ (anything)? There is no question. Nothing is ever missing they are not made aware of before the game and if it is missing it is because the games rules changed and not because EA wanted to change things. They know better then just change up a sports game because they felt like it.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Yes, your opinions and concerns are valid but in a way they do have an expiration date.
I cannot be the only one whose stomach hurts badly when reading that our opinions and concerns have an expiration date. Oh my gosh, this cannot be true.
Our opinions and concerns shall expire just because they have not been adressed for two years now? Honestly?
I really love TS4, but this way of treating the issue gives me severe headaches.
There´s no way to accuse everyone disagreing with EAs current vision of living in the past.
Now now EA, don't be stinking up our lovely lavender bath with your shopping fart. - My TS4 mods - Gallery ID: 83bienchen
As far as I'm concerned, you can't sit there and be outraged now that they don't listen, if you haven't been outraged at their not listening (and they do to a degree) since the beginning of TS3. It's a contradiction in terms. Doesn't matter how awesome the game might be or not. The same solution should apply. You either stand there screaming about it, or you try and find a way of fixing it. If you can't fix it then you accept it, but you can't be outraged for something they've been doing for years.
Simple.
Erm ... really? That isn't a contradiction in terms, that's just a different way of responding to something that may've very well been going on for much longer than TS4, but is nonetheless something very, very real to people. And of course it matters how awesome the game is? Look, if a company doesn't listen to me but puts out a product decent enough for me to enjoy at least 80 to 90% of it, I'm not going to spend my time on forums complaining about bugs. That doesn't mean that when that same company, still not listening to me, puts out another product in that same series that is content-wise far less good but charged at a much higher price, I am not allowed to respond differently this time around. The "silence" isn't all we're responding to. There's nothing contradictory about that. It means that no matter what they weren't listening to the first time clearly bothered me (and many, many others) far less. You don't lose your right to have an opinion or to complain about certain company practices just because they haven't bothered you from the very first moment they started happening. That makes absolutely no sense, I'm sorry.
I didn't say you lose your right to your opinion. Now you're dissatisfied, it's more important that they listen. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the time limited offer of your feedback however. It doesn't change that you won't get an answer, and it doesn't change that it doesn't change the game.
The old forums weren't exactly sunshine and lollipops, but I think that depends on who's opinion you ask. You're still talking to somebody who made a positivity thread one day because everyone was complaining that day.
I wish everyone good luck with their shouting and outrage. I don't think anybody's getting an apology for anything. I'm out.
I wonder why quite a few people on here seem to think that someone disagreeing with them (no matter how strongly) is the equivalent of shouting, but alright. And I don't mind if people want to make both positive and negative threads, I can very well allow for diversity of opinion - even within one and the same person (I don't actually know if that's what you meant or not with your second paragraph, it was a little confusing to me). Also, perhaps we won't get an apology, but really, what do you care if people would still like to share their disappointment with the gurus & with each other? For the most part, this thread has been quite alright in terms of politeness, and there's really nothing wrong with talking about this. So if you don't like it, just don't read it...? But anyway, g'night
Also, perhaps we won't get an apology, but really, what do you care if people would still like to share their disappointment with the gurus & with each other? For the most part, this thread has been quite alright in terms of politeness, and there's really nothing wrong with talking about this.
I agree. For an Internet thread where there are many dissatisfied customers voicing their frustrations, this one has had a lot of well-reasoned and interesting posts to read. And I also feel that there IS a point in continuing to express our frustrations, even if it gets repetitive - for example, I demanded answers about relationship culling/Sim culling/inactive played relationship decay and why they hadn't been announced in the patch notes, and though it felt like pulling teeth, we did finally get to the point where @SimGuruDrake has scheduled a meeting about it and will be working on getting some answers. In the chaos of a forum full of feedback, amidst the chaos of an Internet full of feedback, it can take some repetition to get your concerns addressed.
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
My impression is that there's been a phasing in of the regulations. I didn't see in what I read what portions were older, what were not-till-2018. And I do have the impression that it's pretty common to not wait till the last minute to switch systems, and that once you have, you have. That's as much as I know about the situation, though. Most of what I've seen written up in the business press has been larger-scale issues around the process of getting to new standards in the first place.
That booklet is a whole new law not to go into affect until 2018. Just keep in mind even that is not set in stone as these things can be amended and changed many times before they go into effective law... in otherwise until that date comes, period. They could even be tossed out - especially in the light of a major change in government. You never know - so it is rather foolish to adhere to something that does not even exist as of yet. The rest of EA does not seem to follow any of this as of yet.
I might have misunderstood the phase-in bit. I doubt that any of this is getting tossed out, though - this is, IIRC, part of a set of standards that's involved complex international legislation. And yes, it exists. The deadline for implementation is a deadline, not a beginning. I would imagine few companies are waiting for the deadline and then hitting "go" on the new system. That can go wrong. (I've seen it happen in other kinds of regulation-change scenarios with a deadline for implementation.) I'd be concerned if I knew a company I invested in was waiting to the deadline to implement a major shift in regulatory standards that they'd had years to phase in.
I don't follow other parts of EA to know who's using this, looking at announcement times of basegame updates. (Most of what's in the regulations is going to be invisible to consumers, from what I looked at.) Which other of their products make major basegame changes that consumers would hear about in advance?
All their sports games for one thing - have new main game every year....
Those are new games, not updates.
(Typo. On so few words. Coffee.)
Not actually they are a series only they result in a new base game every year. Believe me many family members buy many of the EA Sports games. They just get a new base game every year while we get a new base game every 4-6 years. They at least always, always keep the old but improve on all the new and overall game appearance, making it better and better constantly - as a base game should be. They are graphically improved - new players added as the real sport adds them, as are new rules as the real sport adds them... as any series base game usually evolves.
Honestly - my husbands Madden games - he could have one being played from 12 years ago and then put in the newest version and visibly there is not a whole lot different to me other then much more realistic look. Same game, same uniforms pretty much, just some different players. It looks a bit more like watching the game on tv as the graphics are amazing now - but other than that - not much has changed in years. Still he buys the new version every year. He's a sport nut. LOL. Oh and anything new in the game he knows before he's bought it. No secrets at EA Sports. The new one comes tomorrow - but on EA sports there is a section called what is new in Madden 17 and it lists/shows all that is new. I assure you my hubby will not go into any Madden game and say "where's this or that? Why are we missing_____ (anything)? There is no question. Nothing is ever missing they are not made aware of before the game and if it is missing it is because the games rules changed and not because EA wanted to change things. They know better then just change up a sports game because they felt like it.
Oh and they sell something like 20 million or more a year easily right out of the gate.
A new base game is a new base game, whether it's a series or not, so no, it's not covered by the same restrictions on discussion as free updates to a game are. There's nothing in the regulations to say that some new software will be considered as if it's an update to software that was already for sale because some elements got recycled for it. FIFA 2015 is not a patch on FIFA 2014.
What I was wondering is what other EA products have updates like Sims 4 does. Not just new games in a series (which are base games), not just paid add-ons.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
i actully blame those people in the sims 3 period that tried to play the sims 3 on not good enough computers and whined all over the orginal sims 3 forums and hence the sims 4 was dumbed down for people with low spec computers it made it so people with high spec computers found it boring
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
My impression is that there's been a phasing in of the regulations. I didn't see in what I read what portions were older, what were not-till-2018. And I do have the impression that it's pretty common to not wait till the last minute to switch systems, and that once you have, you have. That's as much as I know about the situation, though. Most of what I've seen written up in the business press has been larger-scale issues around the process of getting to new standards in the first place.
That booklet is a whole new law not to go into affect until 2018. Just keep in mind even that is not set in stone as these things can be amended and changed many times before they go into effective law... in otherwise until that date comes, period. They could even be tossed out - especially in the light of a major change in government. You never know - so it is rather foolish to adhere to something that does not even exist as of yet. The rest of EA does not seem to follow any of this as of yet.
I might have misunderstood the phase-in bit. I doubt that any of this is getting tossed out, though - this is, IIRC, part of a set of standards that's involved complex international legislation. And yes, it exists. The deadline for implementation is a deadline, not a beginning. I would imagine few companies are waiting for the deadline and then hitting "go" on the new system. That can go wrong. (I've seen it happen in other kinds of regulation-change scenarios with a deadline for implementation.) I'd be concerned if I knew a company I invested in was waiting to the deadline to implement a major shift in regulatory standards that they'd had years to phase in.
I don't follow other parts of EA to know who's using this, looking at announcement times of basegame updates. (Most of what's in the regulations is going to be invisible to consumers, from what I looked at.) Which other of their products make major basegame changes that consumers would hear about in advance?
All their sports games for one thing - have new main game every year....
Those are new games, not updates.
(Typo. On so few words. Coffee.)
Not actually they are a series only they result in a new base game every year. Believe me many family members buy many of the EA Sports games. They just get a new base game every year while we get a new base game every 4-6 years. They at least always, always keep the old but improve on all the new and overall game appearance, making it better and better constantly - as a base game should be. They are graphically improved - new players added as the real sport adds them, as are new rules as the real sport adds them... as any series base game usually evolves.
Honestly - my husbands Madden games - he could have one being played from 12 years ago and then put in the newest version and visibly there is not a whole lot different to me other then much more realistic look. Same game, same uniforms pretty much, just some different players. It looks a bit more like watching the game on tv as the graphics are amazing now - but other than that - not much has changed in years. Still he buys the new version every year. He's a sport nut. LOL. Oh and anything new in the game he knows before he's bought it. No secrets at EA Sports. The new one comes tomorrow - but on EA sports there is a section called what is new in Madden 17 and it lists/shows all that is new. I assure you my hubby will not go into any Madden game and say "where's this or that? Why are we missing_____ (anything)? There is no question. Nothing is ever missing they are not made aware of before the game and if it is missing it is because the games rules changed and not because EA wanted to change things. They know better then just change up a sports game because they felt like it.
Oh and they sell something like 20 million or more a year easily right out of the gate.
A new base game is a new base game, whether it's a series or not, so no, it's not covered by the same restrictions on discussion as free updates to a game are. There's nothing in the regulations to say that some new software will be considered as if it's an update to software that was already for sale because some elements got recycled for it. FIFA 2015 is not a patch on FIFA 2014.
What I was wondering is what other EA products have updates like Sims 4 does. Not just new games in a series (which are base games), not just paid add-ons.
All their big games seem to - Like Battlefield, Titanfall, Star Wars, Mass Effect - Need for Speed etc. Sort of - anyway. They all also have ample DLC and pack updates. There are tons just for Battlefield over on Origin. Like the Free "On the House" games Origin gives away - lately it seems to constantly be Battlefield packs as it tells you that you must own the base game to download these free game packs. Not right now though, but check just battlefield or any big EA game and it will list the expansions and even stuff like packs for those games.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
My impression is that there's been a phasing in of the regulations. I didn't see in what I read what portions were older, what were not-till-2018. And I do have the impression that it's pretty common to not wait till the last minute to switch systems, and that once you have, you have. That's as much as I know about the situation, though. Most of what I've seen written up in the business press has been larger-scale issues around the process of getting to new standards in the first place.
That booklet is a whole new law not to go into affect until 2018. Just keep in mind even that is not set in stone as these things can be amended and changed many times before they go into effective law... in otherwise until that date comes, period. They could even be tossed out - especially in the light of a major change in government. You never know - so it is rather foolish to adhere to something that does not even exist as of yet. The rest of EA does not seem to follow any of this as of yet.
I might have misunderstood the phase-in bit. I doubt that any of this is getting tossed out, though - this is, IIRC, part of a set of standards that's involved complex international legislation. And yes, it exists. The deadline for implementation is a deadline, not a beginning. I would imagine few companies are waiting for the deadline and then hitting "go" on the new system. That can go wrong. (I've seen it happen in other kinds of regulation-change scenarios with a deadline for implementation.) I'd be concerned if I knew a company I invested in was waiting to the deadline to implement a major shift in regulatory standards that they'd had years to phase in.
I don't follow other parts of EA to know who's using this, looking at announcement times of basegame updates. (Most of what's in the regulations is going to be invisible to consumers, from what I looked at.) Which other of their products make major basegame changes that consumers would hear about in advance?
All their sports games for one thing - have new main game every year....
Those are new games, not updates.
(Typo. On so few words. Coffee.)
Not actually they are a series only they result in a new base game every year. Believe me many family members buy many of the EA Sports games. They just get a new base game every year while we get a new base game every 4-6 years. They at least always, always keep the old but improve on all the new and overall game appearance, making it better and better constantly - as a base game should be. They are graphically improved - new players added as the real sport adds them, as are new rules as the real sport adds them... as any series base game usually evolves.
Honestly - my husbands Madden games - he could have one being played from 12 years ago and then put in the newest version and visibly there is not a whole lot different to me other then much more realistic look. Same game, same uniforms pretty much, just some different players. It looks a bit more like watching the game on tv as the graphics are amazing now - but other than that - not much has changed in years. Still he buys the new version every year. He's a sport nut. LOL. Oh and anything new in the game he knows before he's bought it. No secrets at EA Sports. The new one comes tomorrow - but on EA sports there is a section called what is new in Madden 17 and it lists/shows all that is new. I assure you my hubby will not go into any Madden game and say "where's this or that? Why are we missing_____ (anything)? There is no question. Nothing is ever missing they are not made aware of before the game and if it is missing it is because the games rules changed and not because EA wanted to change things. They know better then just change up a sports game because they felt like it.
Oh and they sell something like 20 million or more a year easily right out of the gate.
A new base game is a new base game, whether it's a series or not, so no, it's not covered by the same restrictions on discussion as free updates to a game are. There's nothing in the regulations to say that some new software will be considered as if it's an update to software that was already for sale because some elements got recycled for it. FIFA 2015 is not a patch on FIFA 2014.
What I was wondering is what other EA products have updates like Sims 4 does. Not just new games in a series (which are base games), not just paid add-ons.
All their big games seem to - Like Battlefield, Titanfall, Star Wars, Mass Effect - Need for Speed etc. Sort of - anyway. They all also have ample DLC and pack updates. There are tons just for Battlefield over on Origin.
Ok. I think it was Battlefield someone was posting an example of earlier, saying they'd announced in July something coming out in September... within the quarter. But I can't recall if it was purchased DLC or a free update - a patch. And it's patches that this is about. (Where it would affect paid DLC would be if part of the content shown was actually getting patched into the game, and that was known or - I suspect - had cause to be assumed.)
Making optional, normally-paid DLC free ("on the house") isn't equivalent to changing the game as already available for sale.
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@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
My impression is that there's been a phasing in of the regulations. I didn't see in what I read what portions were older, what were not-till-2018. And I do have the impression that it's pretty common to not wait till the last minute to switch systems, and that once you have, you have. That's as much as I know about the situation, though. Most of what I've seen written up in the business press has been larger-scale issues around the process of getting to new standards in the first place.
That booklet is a whole new law not to go into affect until 2018. Just keep in mind even that is not set in stone as these things can be amended and changed many times before they go into effective law... in otherwise until that date comes, period. They could even be tossed out - especially in the light of a major change in government. You never know - so it is rather foolish to adhere to something that does not even exist as of yet. The rest of EA does not seem to follow any of this as of yet.
I might have misunderstood the phase-in bit. I doubt that any of this is getting tossed out, though - this is, IIRC, part of a set of standards that's involved complex international legislation. And yes, it exists. The deadline for implementation is a deadline, not a beginning. I would imagine few companies are waiting for the deadline and then hitting "go" on the new system. That can go wrong. (I've seen it happen in other kinds of regulation-change scenarios with a deadline for implementation.) I'd be concerned if I knew a company I invested in was waiting to the deadline to implement a major shift in regulatory standards that they'd had years to phase in.
I don't follow other parts of EA to know who's using this, looking at announcement times of basegame updates. (Most of what's in the regulations is going to be invisible to consumers, from what I looked at.) Which other of their products make major basegame changes that consumers would hear about in advance?
All their sports games for one thing - have new main game every year....
Those are new games, not updates.
(Typo. On so few words. Coffee.)
Not actually they are a series only they result in a new base game every year. Believe me many family members buy many of the EA Sports games. They just get a new base game every year while we get a new base game every 4-6 years. They at least always, always keep the old but improve on all the new and overall game appearance, making it better and better constantly - as a base game should be. They are graphically improved - new players added as the real sport adds them, as are new rules as the real sport adds them... as any series base game usually evolves.
Honestly - my husbands Madden games - he could have one being played from 12 years ago and then put in the newest version and visibly there is not a whole lot different to me other then much more realistic look. Same game, same uniforms pretty much, just some different players. It looks a bit more like watching the game on tv as the graphics are amazing now - but other than that - not much has changed in years. Still he buys the new version every year. He's a sport nut. LOL. Oh and anything new in the game he knows before he's bought it. No secrets at EA Sports. The new one comes tomorrow - but on EA sports there is a section called what is new in Madden 17 and it lists/shows all that is new. I assure you my hubby will not go into any Madden game and say "where's this or that? Why are we missing_____ (anything)? There is no question. Nothing is ever missing they are not made aware of before the game and if it is missing it is because the games rules changed and not because EA wanted to change things. They know better then just change up a sports game because they felt like it.
Oh and they sell something like 20 million or more a year easily right out of the gate.
A new base game is a new base game, whether it's a series or not, so no, it's not covered by the same restrictions on discussion as free updates to a game are. There's nothing in the regulations to say that some new software will be considered as if it's an update to software that was already for sale because some elements got recycled for it. FIFA 2015 is not a patch on FIFA 2014.
What I was wondering is what other EA products have updates like Sims 4 does. Not just new games in a series (which are base games), not just paid add-ons.
All their big games seem to - Like Battlefield, Titanfall, Star Wars, Mass Effect - Need for Speed etc. Sort of - anyway. They all also have ample DLC and pack updates. There are tons just for Battlefield over on Origin.
I don't play the other games but I can tell you now that we have had VERY little info on the upcoming Mass Effect game. And it's a base game so, technically, they can legally talk about it. I will be interested to see how they handle dlc for it, though. I will say that with DAI, we didn't hear details about upcoming dlc until, at the very most, a couple of months before it was released. We did hear leaks about some of them (I seem to recall hearing leaks about the last dlc several months before it was released) but I'm fairly sure we didn't get any official info about the dlc earlier than 2 months or so on each one. In fact, if I recall correctly for the first or second dlc, they didn't tell us about it until a week or two before it was released.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
@Terra indeed, sometimes people just have to keep fighting to be heard, as saying and doing nothing certainly won't solve the problem either. And you'd think the sims forums would be exactly where you go to do that. Plus, even if nothing changes about TS4 because they can't or won't implement / change anything, maybe they'll keep it in mind for TS5 if and when that game ever comes along
@carlymichelle that may not be so far from the truth actually ... too bad they had to sacrifice basic content just to attract a wide array of customers - even if most players of pretty much any other game know that to play computer games you need ... a good computer.
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
My impression is that there's been a phasing in of the regulations. I didn't see in what I read what portions were older, what were not-till-2018. And I do have the impression that it's pretty common to not wait till the last minute to switch systems, and that once you have, you have. That's as much as I know about the situation, though. Most of what I've seen written up in the business press has been larger-scale issues around the process of getting to new standards in the first place.
That booklet is a whole new law not to go into affect until 2018. Just keep in mind even that is not set in stone as these things can be amended and changed many times before they go into effective law... in otherwise until that date comes, period. They could even be tossed out - especially in the light of a major change in government. You never know - so it is rather foolish to adhere to something that does not even exist as of yet. The rest of EA does not seem to follow any of this as of yet.
I might have misunderstood the phase-in bit. I doubt that any of this is getting tossed out, though - this is, IIRC, part of a set of standards that's involved complex international legislation. And yes, it exists. The deadline for implementation is a deadline, not a beginning. I would imagine few companies are waiting for the deadline and then hitting "go" on the new system. That can go wrong. (I've seen it happen in other kinds of regulation-change scenarios with a deadline for implementation.) I'd be concerned if I knew a company I invested in was waiting to the deadline to implement a major shift in regulatory standards that they'd had years to phase in.
I don't follow other parts of EA to know who's using this, looking at announcement times of basegame updates. (Most of what's in the regulations is going to be invisible to consumers, from what I looked at.) Which other of their products make major basegame changes that consumers would hear about in advance?
All their sports games for one thing - have new main game every year....
Those are new games, not updates.
(Typo. On so few words. Coffee.)
Not actually they are a series only they result in a new base game every year. Believe me many family members buy many of the EA Sports games. They just get a new base game every year while we get a new base game every 4-6 years. They at least always, always keep the old but improve on all the new and overall game appearance, making it better and better constantly - as a base game should be. They are graphically improved - new players added as the real sport adds them, as are new rules as the real sport adds them... as any series base game usually evolves.
Honestly - my husbands Madden games - he could have one being played from 12 years ago and then put in the newest version and visibly there is not a whole lot different to me other then much more realistic look. Same game, same uniforms pretty much, just some different players. It looks a bit more like watching the game on tv as the graphics are amazing now - but other than that - not much has changed in years. Still he buys the new version every year. He's a sport nut. LOL. Oh and anything new in the game he knows before he's bought it. No secrets at EA Sports. The new one comes tomorrow - but on EA sports there is a section called what is new in Madden 17 and it lists/shows all that is new. I assure you my hubby will not go into any Madden game and say "where's this or that? Why are we missing_____ (anything)? There is no question. Nothing is ever missing they are not made aware of before the game and if it is missing it is because the games rules changed and not because EA wanted to change things. They know better then just change up a sports game because they felt like it.
Oh and they sell something like 20 million or more a year easily right out of the gate.
A new base game is a new base game, whether it's a series or not, so no, it's not covered by the same restrictions on discussion as free updates to a game are. There's nothing in the regulations to say that some new software will be considered as if it's an update to software that was already for sale because some elements got recycled for it. FIFA 2015 is not a patch on FIFA 2014.
What I was wondering is what other EA products have updates like Sims 4 does. Not just new games in a series (which are base games), not just paid add-ons.
All their big games seem to - Like Battlefield, Titanfall, Star Wars, Mass Effect - Need for Speed etc. Sort of - anyway. They all also have ample DLC and pack updates. There are tons just for Battlefield over on Origin.
Ok. I think it was Battlefield someone was posting an example of earlier, saying they'd announced in July something coming out in September... within the quarter. But I can't recall if it was purchased DLC or a free update - a patch. And it's patches that this is about. (Where it would affect paid DLC would be if part of the content shown was actually getting patched into the game, and that was known or - I suspect - had cause to be assumed.)
Making optional, normally-paid DLC free ("on the house") isn't equivalent to changing the game as already available for sale.
Here - maybe this is what you are talking about - as I questioned her on this - and she replied - in that long thread:
Writin_Reg wrote: »
Been thinking about this all day - and you know what burns my psyche to the core is the fact it seems these "rules" just apply to Maxis and The Sims 4 - and not EA. I find it extremely odd that we cannot even have a single answer to anything regarding future content - but EA on the other hand can go massively live - world wide with their big games - like Battlefield 4, Titanfall 2, the New Star Wars - the coming FIFA - not only with info but trailers and on top of that literally days of play with thousands of players at both the E3 private conference & 3 day event and the Gamescom 2016.
I just checked on just Titanfall 2 is slated to be released October 28th, 2016 - it was first played and viewed June 12th- the 14th, 2016 and now again for another 3 days August 16-18th. What gives on the parent company and it's numerous other studios not having the same rules as Maxis then. Seems to me they are straddling numerous quarters with all EA's game but we can't know a thing about Sims 4.
I fail to get this and I read that whole post Graham linked to. It would be a different matter if EA who owns Maxis lived under the same rules - but seems Maxis is special and has a special set of rules all to themselves.
@Writin_Reg Every one of those games you mentioned would be considered new base games. People haven't been able to purchase any of them yet and you can promote them for as much as you want for as long as you want without having to risk rev rec issues. They are in no way similar to us. We also would be completely overshadowed if we made any kind of announcement of anything when competing for air time with the likes of Battlefield, Titanfall, FIFA, and [c]especially[/b] Star Wars. We are also the only franchise under EA that releases so many different types of content so yea, in a way, we are a special butterfly. Lastly, announcements for new paid content can be announced at any time in or outside the quarter it would be released, doesn't mean it will.
As you can see she plainly states things can be said about paid content - regardless of quarter - but it does not mean it will be.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
@Writin_Reg That's what I'm referring to re. all those being base games and therefore not under the same corner of the regulation that prevents out-of-quarter announcement. And yeah, paid content can be spoken of. @SimGuruGraham had made the connection at one point - this was quite a while ago, now, in the early spring? - about paid content having associated free content causing complications, so I was happy to learn that it's not always that way. (And of course there can be other reasons not to make announcements extra early - content not being final yet, for example.) The game update to a different EA game was discussed sometime within the last few weeks but I'm not sure exactly where anymore.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
@Writin_Reg & @luthienrising even if these rules did apply to everyone already (and not just by 2018), it's still possible that people who play those other games aren't exactly waiting for DLC just to make them interesting enough to play, so it might not matter to some, or even a lot, of their players when they do or don't announce new content to them, at least not as much as it seems to matter to many of us, happy or not, here (plus, they seem to be getting tons of expansion stuff for free lately, it's disheartening lol). I know my bf plays this game religiously, but it's usually me who tells him that he can get EPs on the house, which makes me think that EP's aren't something he's actively waiting for. It's not something he needs to enhance the game he's actually paid for. See, this whole "we can't announce anything"-stuff is so frustrating because simmers really seem to need new stuff to keep their games interesting. I don't consider desperately waiting for a new EP pretty much constantly to be a very good indicator of the base game's success.
(ETA to all my current posts because I'm apparently too tired to type coherent sentences ... )
Here's a good question for the Simgurus at Gamescon: Without going into specifics, are you ever disappointed by decisions made by management?
However, they might not even be able to answer that one. Almost every single employee of a publicly held corporation has been disappointed with decisions made by management at one time or another, but they generally cannot represent that to the public. Right, @SimGuruDrake ? @SimGuruGraham ?
I have been playing The Sims since 2001, when Livin Large came out. My avatar deliberately looks like Chris Roomies from TS1.
@SimsILikeSims That is a good question actually but would they be allowed to answer? I am sure that the devs and other employees of EA have their own ideas as much as players do so it would be interesting to hear what they like or don't like from the series.
Island Paradise and Into the Future were announced without screens and videos. They teased us for months about basketball and other things when they were marketing the base game, SimGuruGrant had to say on Twitter "Things change". Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines and even Microsoft (Windows Insider) have a open relationship with their community, announcing and showing content in development.
Grant is right, things do change in game development all the time, and those communities you gave an example for are more willing to understand the intricacies of game development and don't go attacking the devs on a personal level because those things changed in development that those teams don't have control over. If the Sims community could also ingest that and accept that game development isn't a straight line from point A to point B and is rather a very curvy line that has lots of loop-de-loops then maybe we could have an open relationship. As it is now we get shot down multiple times when we talk about what goes into making The Sims, told we are just making excuses, that the team is lazy, that the team has no heart, that the team doesn't listen, and the list goes on and on.
I hope I am allowed to share some feedback on this particular statement even tho I might be some days late.
I can see what you mean about the communities rather negative attitude towards the devs and other things concerning Sims 4. I have been a member for a long time and I have seen that this community can be rather nasty and offensive towards the game, the devs and as well as each other. However, the reason why this has happened (this is an explaining not an excuse, it is never okay to insult anyone!) is bred of the silence we had early on from you guys, as well as miscommunication. First you guys said one thing, then you said another, you were rarely clear about exactly with what you meant or were silent about it (assuming you were busy or dealing with other things) So people got frustrated and angry, and started to vent on the forums in hope to get just some answers from you guys, instead they were met with other frustrated and angry people and it all crashes into one big mess. People here just want answers, they want to be part of sims (this includes the development) and you guys are getting better at communicating and I hope it continues.
My feedback I wish to give is, that you guys should consider getting a bigger team of community managers to talk and be part of the community as well as the devs on Sims. You are doing a good job @SimGuruDrake, but we only see you on the forums and you are but one human in a large community, you shouldn't be alone dealing with this. A bigger community team would allow you guys to talk to more people, be part of it, as well as having the community be part of the development of Sims 4 and if people keeps shooting you down and/or get a negative attitude against anyone or anything, then stand up, find out why and speak up about it or take the appropriate action needed to make sure that people get a positive teamwork with everyone (including the devs and the community team) It might take some time getting everything settled down, but you just have to keep talking, keep allowing people to be part of Sims, and keep being part of us (the community) and I am sure things will smoothed out.
@Writin_Reg & @luthienrising even if these rules did apply to everyone already (and not just by 2018), it's still possible that people who play those other games aren't exactly waiting for DLC just to make them interesting enough to play, so it might not matter to some, or even a lot, of their players when they do or don't announce new content to them, at least not as much as it seems to matter to many of us, happy or not, here (plus, they seem to be getting tons of expansion stuff for free lately, it's disheartening lol). I know my bf plays this game religiously, but it's usually me who tells him that he can get EPs on the house, which makes me think that EP's aren't something he's actively waiting for. It's not something he needs to enhance the game he's actually paid for. See, this whole "we can't announce anything"-stuff is so frustrating because simmers really seem to need new stuff to keep their games interesting. I don't consider desperately waiting for a new EP pretty much constantly to be a very good indicator of the base game's success.
(ETA to all my current posts because I'm apparently too tired to type coherent sentences ... )
Yeah, I can see that. It would make it a non-issue there but an issue here. Like Drake said, Sims is a bit of a special snowflake.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
So we finally get one of the Gurus to speak up and what do they do? Write up a passive-aggressive tirade and tell everyone to shut up and be patient. In other words after more than 200 replies to this thread we got absolutely nowhere.
Outstanding. Simply outstanding.
Someone with some guts. I was going to remark several pages back after reading those rants about more or less don't let the door hit you in the rear, but decided attitudes from Maxis is the reason I don't want to post here anymore and has been for a very long time. Others may not see or just don't want to believe it or want to be 'friends' with gurus when I see a business relationship as just that and I'm never shocked anymore at the total disrespect I see coming out of some guru's mouth. Maybe corporate or at the next stock holders meeting should be told why people left here and are going to leave here, and gathering up or building more promotional sites like SimsVIP isn't going to work for this game when Maxis employees can't keep their mouth's shut and run off communities with exactly what you said. Glad to know I didn't say it, and others are waking up and this is exactly why many left for the total disrespect they received.
Let me see if I got this right, from reading post from those who attended like Crinrict and others in their own blogs. From what I gathered this was more or less a promotional meeting of how they could get more fan created websites up and running to promote the game, talk about the positives of the game and not focus on the failures and so Maxis could sell more games? Yep, I'm pretty sure that was the heart of the matter.
She did a write up in German and someone translated it for us here, and it's posted here somewhere and btw, she wasn't the only one. I think I got the gest of the meeting to build more websites to promote the game. How hidden was that? Not very.
@crinrict isn't SimTimes.de. Also, there's nothing at all about building more websites to promote the game in that blog post.
What? Do my awesomes bother you? You do know they are used to be laughed at now don't you? It may not be agrees of what I said but laughter. I never look at people's awesomes, funny you do.
It's often agrees, usually after someone has made a scathing remark in response to someone. It's essentially this GIF whenever that happens.
For me it boils down to the very fact that Maxis calls these people/sites "influencers". Are they supposed to be influencing Maxis or us?
If they are supposed to be influencing Maxis then what they say to Maxis should carry more "weight" so to speak. Are they not giving feedback on toddlers, additional color selections, supernaturals, cars, build tools, CAW, culling, etc.? Do these things not bother the influencers? This brings me to my next point. Once you decide that the opinions of a certain few carry more weight than other people you start to alienate people. It's no longer about what's best for the playerbase. It becomes about what's best for the influencers and that's not how you foster a sense of community.
If these influencers are indeed telling Maxis all of this, and/or their job is really to influence us, this whole "influencer" business then becomes condescending. As in we Sims players are not smart enough to make our own decisions about what to buy that they need community celebrities to convince us that this game is worth throwing our money into.
Either way, this whole thing comes across as being very divisive and hostile for the community.
@Phantomflex Influencers / Content Creators are normally people with very large social followings who do have an "influence" over those who follow them. The individuals who follow them trust their opinions on things like beauty products, clothing, books, art supplies, video games, etc. Companies work with these individuals because their one voice can reach hundreds of thousands of people who feel their views align with this individual.
Influencers are also used as "beta testers" to get hands on with products early (like some of what I listed above) as they have built trust with the companies that work with them to not break NDA's or Embargoes and to think about not only what they personally like or don't like about something but also remarking on areas where they could improve to attract even more people to the product by thinking of some of the big sticking points that those who follow them constantly talk about.
Working with individuals who have a large reach is part of any companies strategy and it is a major part of my job to foster relationships and trust with every one of those individuals that I work with and would like to work with. The fact is that there will always be people who get more access to things than someone else. It's not done out of spite or to be "divisive" it is simply another way to not only promote the product but to empower these individuals to be the liaisons for their community and to pass along their feedback to us. They are basically like me in a way, I am your representative in studio as I am the one that takes your feedback from here to those who need to hear it. I am also the one that would flag stuff if I feel something would rub you the wrong way or needs to be clarified more because it seems confusing.
Been thinking about this all day - and you know what burns my psyche to the core is the fact it seems these "rules" just apply to Maxis and The Sims 4 - and not EA. I find it extremely odd that we cannot even have a single answer to anything regarding future content - but EA on the other hand can go massively live - world wide with their big games - like Battlefield 4, Titanfall 2, the New Star Wars - the coming FIFA - not only with info but trailers and on top of that literally days of play with thousands of players at both the E3 private conference & 3 day event and the Gamescom 2016.
I just checked on just Titanfall 2 is slated to be released October 28th, 2016 - it was first played and viewed June 12th- the 14th, 2016 and now again for another 3 days August 16-18th. What gives on the parent company and it's numerous other studios not having the same rules as Maxis then. Seems to me they are straddling numerous quarters with all EA's game but we can't know a thing about Sims 4.
I fail to get this and I read that whole post Graham linked to. It would be a different matter if EA who owns Maxis lived under the same rules - but seems Maxis is special and has a special set of rules all to themselves.
@Writin_Reg Every one of those games you mentioned would be considered new base games. People haven't been able to purchase any of them yet and you can promote them for as much as you want for as long as you want without having to risk rev rec issues. They are in no way similar to us. We also would be completely overshadowed if we made any kind of announcement of anything when competing for air time with the likes of Battlefield, Titanfall, FIFA, and [c]especially[/b] Star Wars. We are also the only franchise under EA that releases so many different types of content so yea, in a way, we are a special butterfly. Lastly, announcements for new paid content can be announced at any time in or outside the quarter it would be released, doesn't mean it will.
Honestly when plenty of customers are telling you than they consider that EA have been far from transparent (yes since you've arrived it's got slightly better and well done on that) and then the response is that you reject those concerns completely and say that EA believe they have it makes it worse for the customer who feels that way. Nowhere is there a 'sorry you feel this way, can you explain why and I'll take it to those who have the power for future decisions or road maps to try to avoid these feelings in the future'. It's a flat out rejection. This is why people feel let down by Maxis and EA. It's the total rejection of concerns because your company believes otherwise. You know how customer experiences improve? By learning about what works, what doesn't work, how different methods of communication translate in reality to the customer base by listening, taking the time to be understanding and by having an open mind to listen to what the reality is for your customers.
See it's a similar vein to your statement the other day about being negative. You told someone if they were negative then they likely wouldn't have a positive experience. I'd say this situation and similar ones come across to customers as EA having a negative attitude toward any complaints or concerns raised so when things could be learnt and handled better in the future those lessons won't be learnt because the prevailing reaction to those being raised is a negative one. When I say negative I'm talking about the rejection of some customers experiences based on how your company felt it was doing and often myths about why these concerns are raised. Another example-the 'TS3 mindset' comment in the press, the inference in another interview that people don't know what a base is like after many of them have experienced up to 4 bases!
For me, as your customer, it's experiences of rejection of concerns and complaints which have absolutely contributed to my breakdown of trust in the company, the product and the team. I wouldn't have bought the base if I didn't trust you guys to make good on what you ran out of time with and I preordered so I paid a premium to support the studio despite the issues. I was more than willing to support you and wait. But I'm beyond disappointed at the reaction to valid concerns and it has been these instances that has actually caused more damage to the situation and my trust (which you had a lot of given i supported Maxis since before The Sims existed) than the shock of the poor experience with the game. In two years this situation has turned around decades of accumulated goodwill.
In terms of customer service and experience when 'themes' of issues with your product or how the translation of your methods occur in real life amongst the customer base are raised unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers. Every one of them. Doing the opposite just shows a lack of care towards the customer being dismissed. Whether the company agrees or not is beside the point. They should be striving to deal with these issues to improve the situation for all their customers.
@sparkfairy1 I wanted to address the bolded sections in the first quote and this specific portion of the second.
1. How many times have I asked people to explain why they feel the way they do? That I would take my feedback to the team? I've even reached out to several individuals in these forums privately to have a more 1:1 conversation to figure out how we can mend that relationship. Too many people here stay in the past. Yes, your opinions and concerns are valid but in a way they do have an expiration date. If someone, like myself, is speaking directly to you almost every day all day to engage and mend relationships, comment on things that they are able, to hunt for the answers to the questions they can answer for you, and are an advocate for you to fight to make sure we are being as transparent as possible and people STILL try and say that we aren't being transparent or are hiding things or are trying to find double meaning in their words than they would clearly rather stay negative than even try to let their past issues go and look to the future.
It doesn't mean they no longer care about the issues they had in the past, it's that they themselves acknowledge that they are willing to accept the olive branch being given. If they swipe it away and "scream" and "yell" about things from the past they clearly want to stay there and we can never change their minds. I spent my first year as the Community Manager working to mend relationships with those who felt disenfranchised; those individuals took up a lot of my time (including time I should have been spending with my significant other) because I felt it was important to spend my first year trying to mend relationships and really learn about what those who feel upset / completely unsatisfied were coming from so we could work towards making "peace" and starting a new. Now that my position has gotten bigger and I have to think globally I can no longer just focus on those individuals anymore.
2. That particular individual wasn't giving feedback. They were, in a way, yelling into a room and were dismissing everything I've said before. It is one thing to be frustrated and to share that frustration in a constructive and controlled manner, it's another to yell "in someone's face" and not be willing to hear anything the other side has to say.
3. As for the final quote: It is absolutely impossible to make every single person who plays our game happy. Additionally, the same mention of "unless you listen with an open mind then you'll never learn how to make the experience better for your customers" can be said for the customers as well. If you aren't willing to listen to what we say with an open mind when we are providing you with straight answers and way more insight into things then we are even obligated to give you you will never learn to trust that we are being honest with you within the constraints that we can and you won't improve the relationship with the team you say you want to have hear you. There also comes a point where you are in a lose lose situation with those who are unhappy and you simply have to move on because nothing you say or do will please them--its never something you want to do but sometimes it's more worthwhile to engage with those who are willing to provide constructive feedback over ones who just want to yell.
Island Paradise and Into the Future were announced without screens and videos. They teased us for months about basketball and other things when they were marketing the base game, SimGuruGrant had to say on Twitter "Things change". Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines and even Microsoft (Windows Insider) have a open relationship with their community, announcing and showing content in development.
Grant is right, things do change in game development all the time, and those communities you gave an example for are more willing to understand the intricacies of game development and don't go attacking the devs on a personal level because those things changed in development that those teams don't have control over. If the Sims community could also ingest that and accept that game development isn't a straight line from point A to point B and is rather a very curvy line that has lots of loop-de-loops then maybe we could have an open relationship. As it is now we get shot down multiple times when we talk about what goes into making The Sims, told we are just making excuses, that the team is lazy, that the team has no heart, that the team doesn't listen, and the list goes on and on.
While that may be true, we're already two years in. Maybe they should've started working on including all the basic stuff people are actually missing instead of one SP after another. I think a lot of people could've done with far less SPs if instead they'd gotten back the content they want... but that's just an opinion of course Maybe for TS5 they should think about the kind of game development Planet Coaster & Parkitect have chosen. I like co-creation & asking the people who'll eventually buy the game to chime in & help make it what they like - instead of telling them "here you have a fabulous engine that will make all your dreams possible" only to then never add the things people say they dream of.
See the problem with only focusing on the people who, as you say, will eventually buy the game is that you completely limit yourself from appealing to a wider audience. You HAVE to think bigger to remain in this industry, you HAVE to evolve, and you CANT just focus on the ones you "know will eventually buy the game". This is why so many games on Steam Green Light / Early Access never get out of Early Access because you have too many cooks in the kitchen.
And Lastly:
Before anyone tries to say I am "blaming the customer" at some point you will have to take a hard look at yourself and wonder if anything we do will ever truly make you happy when you can clearly see we are trying our hardest to try and mend relations with you. Still refusing to acknowledge it, want to call us liars, want to make things personal, and just ultimately want to not listen or learn from the things we are telling you--a perfect example is the unwillingness to even accept or acknowledge that we gave insight into HOW we go about making games and why we don't just tell you things to just tell you and are told that we are simply making excuses, why didn't we tell you this before, etc. tells me that nothing we do will change your mind.
With all of that I am off for the rest of the day as I am going to be on a long flight back to EARS tomorrow. I bid all of you a good evening / morning and I hope that you have a wonderful weekend
Thank you for taking your time to tell us all of this. I am on neither side of the devs of simmers because I just can't.
1. Maxis, you won't do anything to please some of your fans. If you know about the whole toddler situation, then just don't sit there and do nothing. Do something about it. Be honest with us. A true game company never let down their real fans. You guess just need to give us a simple answer: Are toddlers coming or not? If they are coming, will they be in development sometime soon? Simple as that. Everyone wouldn't fuss so much if you would just tell us in the beginning. Now I don't know if the City ep is real but I am disappointed if it's not Generation this time. It's been two whole years and all we got was bull from fans. Your silence made us so angry that we ranted all over the forum. Now come on. You are obviously trying to bring your fans down instead of up. I know you are listening to us but it seems like you aren't. Why do we have all these unwanted stuff packs or announcements? You know we want plumming toddlers and you REFUSE to give to us still.
"You say you want something to happen but you never really do anything about it."
- Unknown
"Stop wishing something to happen. Make a move and do it"
-Unknown
"If you really want to do something you will find a way. If you'll don't, you will find an excuse."
-Unknown
"You have today. You are here. Do something."
-Rozine
"Don't talk about something just do it! I fought with all of my brains until a bullet went through it."
-Abraham Lincoln from ERB
"Do something today that your future self will thank you for"
-Unknown
Come on Maxis, this can't keep happening forever.
Fans:
Stop acting so childish and support Maxis rather than going against them. Real fans don't bash on devs or even other fans. We are supposed to act civilize for heaven sakes. Most of us are grown bass adults with children or no children. God there are children and teenagers on here for the love of Christ. You are being a bad role model for them because of how childish you act. We aren't children. We are supposed to help Maxis and EA. What I learned from here you guys are nothing but haters and some of you are cruel people.
The ones that don't like toddlers or don't care: I understand. Real life children can be a pain so you don't want to tolerate it in a virtual game. I've been there too. I have three nieces and nephews. Yes we don't get along everyday and we fight but that doesn't stop making me want children on an online virtual game. For the ones that keep going against people who want toddlers, stop it right now. You have no right to tell us what we can't have or what's not coming. Stop bashing on every thread having to do with something about toddlers. Stop saying "I don't want toddlers in the Sims 4" or "I hop they'll never come" or "NO TODDLERS! I HATE THEM" on a thread or your own thread. Quite acting like crying babies and grow the fuzzy wuzzy up. Toddlers are going to be everywhere no matter where you go regardless in real life or a simulation game. This is not a childless world and it will never be.
Now can we all agree to make a change instead being complete 🐸🐸🐸🐸.S and do nothing about sim forum world issues.
"People aren't against you. They are for themselves"
-Anonymous
"We either live together as brothers or perish together as fools"
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
"Success is simple. Do what's right, the right way, at the right time."
-Arnold H. Glasow
This one is for everyone out here:
We should not make war but only peace. Fans, stop this. We can make things better if we all stay positive. Maxis, be wise and make that move. I'm tired of all the whining. Why can't we all people happy for the love of this planet. Things will keep getting worse if we won't do nothing about this toddler issue.
All of us, devs and fans, need to stop. This is getting ridiculous and I come on here and see this stuff everyday. Every single day. When Maxis makes something not having to do with toddlers, we complain and they seem like ignoring us.
Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, all comments on Sims accounts about toddlers. Toddlers toddlers toddlers. How long will this keep going? Until death do us a part?
One last thing, this makes me so sad. Nothing seems to be working out...it's nothing but shame. The past of toddlers of Sims keeps haunting in my mind foever....
@AnnMaria Yes I am a grown woman but also never have bashed people here...posters or employees. Many times I disagree but that's not bashing. I've told them what I think is wrong and what I'd like to see.
.........but here's the thing......the people who work for Maxis are not my "buds". They develop and market a game that I have liked. They didn't do it as a favor. The company paid them and charged me money for what I got. If I feel it's not up to the past standards of the franchise then I have space here to give feedback.....okay?
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
Comments
I didn't say you lose your right to your opinion. Now you're dissatisfied, it's more important that they listen. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the time limited offer of your feedback however. It doesn't change that you won't get an answer, and it doesn't change that it doesn't change the game.
The old forums weren't exactly sunshine and lollipops, but I think that depends on who's opinion you ask. You're still talking to somebody who made a positivity thread one day because everyone was complaining that day.
I wish everyone good luck with their shouting and outrage. I don't think anybody's getting an apology for anything. I'm out.
Not actually they are a series only they result in a new base game every year. Believe me many family members buy many of the EA Sports games. They just get a new base game every year while we get a new base game every 4-6 years. They at least always, always keep the old but improve on all the new and overall game appearance, making it better and better constantly - as a base game should be. They are graphically improved - new players added as the real sport adds them, as are new rules as the real sport adds them... as any series base game usually evolves.
Honestly - my husbands Madden games - he could have one being played from 12 years ago and then put in the newest version and visibly there is not a whole lot different to me other then much more realistic look. Same game, same uniforms pretty much, just some different players. It looks a bit more like watching the game on tv as the graphics are amazing now - but other than that - not much has changed in years. Still he buys the new version every year. He's a sport nut. LOL. Oh and anything new in the game he knows before he's bought it. No secrets at EA Sports. The new one comes tomorrow - but on EA sports there is a section called what is new in Madden 17 and it lists/shows all that is new. I assure you my hubby will not go into any Madden game and say "where's this or that? Why are we missing_____ (anything)? There is no question. Nothing is ever missing they are not made aware of before the game and if it is missing it is because the games rules changed and not because EA wanted to change things. They know better then just change up a sports game because they felt like it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I cannot be the only one whose stomach hurts badly when reading that our opinions and concerns have an expiration date. Oh my gosh, this cannot be true.
Our opinions and concerns shall expire just because they have not been adressed for two years now? Honestly?
I really love TS4, but this way of treating the issue gives me severe headaches.
There´s no way to accuse everyone disagreing with EAs current vision of living in the past.
I wonder why quite a few people on here seem to think that someone disagreeing with them (no matter how strongly) is the equivalent of shouting, but alright. And I don't mind if people want to make both positive and negative threads, I can very well allow for diversity of opinion - even within one and the same person (I don't actually know if that's what you meant or not with your second paragraph, it was a little confusing to me). Also, perhaps we won't get an apology, but really, what do you care if people would still like to share their disappointment with the gurus & with each other? For the most part, this thread has been quite alright in terms of politeness, and there's really nothing wrong with talking about this. So if you don't like it, just don't read it...? But anyway, g'night
I agree. For an Internet thread where there are many dissatisfied customers voicing their frustrations, this one has had a lot of well-reasoned and interesting posts to read. And I also feel that there IS a point in continuing to express our frustrations, even if it gets repetitive - for example, I demanded answers about relationship culling/Sim culling/inactive played relationship decay and why they hadn't been announced in the patch notes, and though it felt like pulling teeth, we did finally get to the point where @SimGuruDrake has scheduled a meeting about it and will be working on getting some answers. In the chaos of a forum full of feedback, amidst the chaos of an Internet full of feedback, it can take some repetition to get your concerns addressed.
Add Manage Neighbourhood Options - assign your own Sim to NPC jobs!
The Problems with Death in The Sims 4
Distinguish Elder gameplay with Elder-only reward traits
Filter Rugs by Room Size
A new base game is a new base game, whether it's a series or not, so no, it's not covered by the same restrictions on discussion as free updates to a game are. There's nothing in the regulations to say that some new software will be considered as if it's an update to software that was already for sale because some elements got recycled for it. FIFA 2015 is not a patch on FIFA 2014.
What I was wondering is what other EA products have updates like Sims 4 does. Not just new games in a series (which are base games), not just paid add-ons.
That's possible.
All their big games seem to - Like Battlefield, Titanfall, Star Wars, Mass Effect - Need for Speed etc. Sort of - anyway. They all also have ample DLC and pack updates. There are tons just for Battlefield over on Origin. Like the Free "On the House" games Origin gives away - lately it seems to constantly be Battlefield packs as it tells you that you must own the base game to download these free game packs. Not right now though, but check just battlefield or any big EA game and it will list the expansions and even stuff like packs for those games.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Ok. I think it was Battlefield someone was posting an example of earlier, saying they'd announced in July something coming out in September... within the quarter. But I can't recall if it was purchased DLC or a free update - a patch. And it's patches that this is about. (Where it would affect paid DLC would be if part of the content shown was actually getting patched into the game, and that was known or - I suspect - had cause to be assumed.)
Making optional, normally-paid DLC free ("on the house") isn't equivalent to changing the game as already available for sale.
I don't play the other games but I can tell you now that we have had VERY little info on the upcoming Mass Effect game. And it's a base game so, technically, they can legally talk about it.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
@carlymichelle that may not be so far from the truth actually ... too bad they had to sacrifice basic content just to attract a wide array of customers - even if most players of pretty much any other game know that to play computer games you need ... a good computer.
Here - maybe this is what you are talking about - as I questioned her on this - and she replied - in that long thread:
Writin_Reg wrote: »
Been thinking about this all day - and you know what burns my psyche to the core is the fact it seems these "rules" just apply to Maxis and The Sims 4 - and not EA. I find it extremely odd that we cannot even have a single answer to anything regarding future content - but EA on the other hand can go massively live - world wide with their big games - like Battlefield 4, Titanfall 2, the New Star Wars - the coming FIFA - not only with info but trailers and on top of that literally days of play with thousands of players at both the E3 private conference & 3 day event and the Gamescom 2016.
I just checked on just Titanfall 2 is slated to be released October 28th, 2016 - it was first played and viewed June 12th- the 14th, 2016 and now again for another 3 days August 16-18th. What gives on the parent company and it's numerous other studios not having the same rules as Maxis then. Seems to me they are straddling numerous quarters with all EA's game but we can't know a thing about Sims 4.
I fail to get this and I read that whole post Graham linked to. It would be a different matter if EA who owns Maxis lived under the same rules - but seems Maxis is special and has a special set of rules all to themselves.
@Writin_Reg Every one of those games you mentioned would be considered new base games. People haven't been able to purchase any of them yet and you can promote them for as much as you want for as long as you want without having to risk rev rec issues. They are in no way similar to us. We also would be completely overshadowed if we made any kind of announcement of anything when competing for air time with the likes of Battlefield, Titanfall, FIFA, and [c]especially[/b] Star Wars. We are also the only franchise under EA that releases so many different types of content so yea, in a way, we are a special butterfly. Lastly, announcements for new paid content can be announced at any time in or outside the quarter it would be released, doesn't mean it will.
As you can see she plainly states things can be said about paid content - regardless of quarter - but it does not mean it will be.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
(ETA to all my current posts because I'm apparently too tired to type coherent sentences ...
However, they might not even be able to answer that one. Almost every single employee of a publicly held corporation has been disappointed with decisions made by management at one time or another, but they generally cannot represent that to the public. Right, @SimGuruDrake ? @SimGuruGraham ?
I can see what you mean about the communities rather negative attitude towards the devs and other things concerning Sims 4. I have been a member for a long time and I have seen that this community can be rather nasty and offensive towards the game, the devs and as well as each other. However, the reason why this has happened (this is an explaining not an excuse, it is never okay to insult anyone!) is bred of the silence we had early on from you guys, as well as miscommunication. First you guys said one thing, then you said another, you were rarely clear about exactly with what you meant or were silent about it (assuming you were busy or dealing with other things) So people got frustrated and angry, and started to vent on the forums in hope to get just some answers from you guys, instead they were met with other frustrated and angry people and it all crashes into one big mess. People here just want answers, they want to be part of sims (this includes the development) and you guys are getting better at communicating and I hope it continues.
My feedback I wish to give is, that you guys should consider getting a bigger team of community managers to talk and be part of the community as well as the devs on Sims. You are doing a good job @SimGuruDrake, but we only see you on the forums and you are but one human in a large community, you shouldn't be alone dealing with this. A bigger community team would allow you guys to talk to more people, be part of it, as well as having the community be part of the development of Sims 4 and if people keeps shooting you down and/or get a negative attitude against anyone or anything, then stand up, find out why and speak up about it or take the appropriate action needed to make sure that people get a positive teamwork with everyone (including the devs and the community team) It might take some time getting everything settled down, but you just have to keep talking, keep allowing people to be part of Sims, and keep being part of us (the community) and I am sure things will smoothed out.
Ideas on how to improve babies.
Yeah, I can see that. It would make it a non-issue there but an issue here. Like Drake said, Sims is a bit of a special snowflake.
Anyway, seems this thread's carried over a little to this place, though I haven't read all of it & probably won't tonight. It's been enough of this for today ha
I wish you all a very lovely night!
Omg I love you guys!!! xD
Thank you for taking your time to tell us all of this. I am on neither side of the devs of simmers because I just can't.
1. Maxis, you won't do anything to please some of your fans. If you know about the whole toddler situation, then just don't sit there and do nothing. Do something about it. Be honest with us. A true game company never let down their real fans. You guess just need to give us a simple answer: Are toddlers coming or not? If they are coming, will they be in development sometime soon? Simple as that. Everyone wouldn't fuss so much if you would just tell us in the beginning. Now I don't know if the City ep is real but I am disappointed if it's not Generation this time. It's been two whole years and all we got was bull from fans. Your silence made us so angry that we ranted all over the forum. Now come on. You are obviously trying to bring your fans down instead of up. I know you are listening to us but it seems like you aren't. Why do we have all these unwanted stuff packs or announcements? You know we want plumming toddlers and you REFUSE to give to us still.
"You say you want something to happen but you never really do anything about it."
- Unknown
"Stop wishing something to happen. Make a move and do it"
-Unknown
"If you really want to do something you will find a way. If you'll don't, you will find an excuse."
-Unknown
"You have today. You are here. Do something."
-Rozine
"Don't talk about something just do it! I fought with all of my brains until a bullet went through it."
-Abraham Lincoln from ERB
"Do something today that your future self will thank you for"
-Unknown
Come on Maxis, this can't keep happening forever.
Fans:
Stop acting so childish and support Maxis rather than going against them. Real fans don't bash on devs or even other fans. We are supposed to act civilize for heaven sakes. Most of us are grown bass adults with children or no children. God there are children and teenagers on here for the love of Christ. You are being a bad role model for them because of how childish you act. We aren't children. We are supposed to help Maxis and EA. What I learned from here you guys are nothing but haters and some of you are cruel people.
The ones that don't like toddlers or don't care: I understand. Real life children can be a pain so you don't want to tolerate it in a virtual game. I've been there too. I have three nieces and nephews. Yes we don't get along everyday and we fight but that doesn't stop making me want children on an online virtual game. For the ones that keep going against people who want toddlers, stop it right now. You have no right to tell us what we can't have or what's not coming. Stop bashing on every thread having to do with something about toddlers. Stop saying "I don't want toddlers in the Sims 4" or "I hop they'll never come" or "NO TODDLERS! I HATE THEM" on a thread or your own thread. Quite acting like crying babies and grow the fuzzy wuzzy up. Toddlers are going to be everywhere no matter where you go regardless in real life or a simulation game. This is not a childless world and it will never be.
Now can we all agree to make a change instead being complete 🐸🐸🐸🐸.S and do nothing about sim forum world issues.
"People aren't against you. They are for themselves"
-Anonymous
"We either live together as brothers or perish together as fools"
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
"Success is simple. Do what's right, the right way, at the right time."
-Arnold H. Glasow
This one is for everyone out here:
We should not make war but only peace. Fans, stop this. We can make things better if we all stay positive. Maxis, be wise and make that move. I'm tired of all the whining. Why can't we all people happy for the love of this planet. Things will keep getting worse if we won't do nothing about this toddler issue.
All of us, devs and fans, need to stop. This is getting ridiculous and I come on here and see this stuff everyday. Every single day. When Maxis makes something not having to do with toddlers, we complain and they seem like ignoring us.
Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, all comments on Sims accounts about toddlers. Toddlers toddlers toddlers. How long will this keep going? Until death do us a part?
.........but here's the thing......the people who work for Maxis are not my "buds". They develop and market a game that I have liked. They didn't do it as a favor. The company paid them and charged me money for what I got. If I feel it's not up to the past standards of the franchise then I have space here to give feedback.....okay?