@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
I sort of thought they would do better (because yes, I raved on TS3, too) when Andrew Wilson promised they would but I guess that doesn't apply to The Sims Studio under the guise of being called Maxis.
You know what happens when you get a new boss. They go "Yes, we shall fix all that the old boss did wrong. We have learned our lesson. It won't happen again". It doesn't happen. It's just words. It makes you nod and buy things, basically, and makes the new boss sound good.
I have worked in a few places where the new boss always comes in to 'fix the previous manager's mistakes'
Within a few weeks though the new boss could be as bad, if not worse than the previous which leaves me thinking 'how on Earth do these people get the job?'
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
As for me, I was their hostage, I had no choice. I played, things broke, I picked up the pieces and I continued because Sims 3 was a great game apart from bugs and other mechanical issues. This time it's the gameplay that's the problem.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
I sort of thought they would do better (because yes, I raved on TS3, too) when Andrew Wilson promised they would but I guess that doesn't apply to The Sims Studio under the guise of being called Maxis.
You know what happens when you get a new boss. They go "Yes, we shall fix all that the old boss did wrong. We have learned our lesson. It won't happen again". It doesn't happen. It's just words. It makes you nod and buy things, basically, and makes the new boss sound good.
I have worked in a few places where the new boss always comes in to 'fix the previous manager's mistakes'
Within a few weeks though the new boss could be as bad, if not worse than the previous which leaves me thinking 'how on Earth do these people get the job?'
Good question from a consumer point of view. But probably great for their own purse and EA making billions.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got to jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen. Also, if you're using mods or a bazillion fixes then it's not the game you actually like but the mods (and fixes) that change it.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
I have no answers for some of the things you talked about because I seem to be in the minority when it comes to TS3.....although I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
I never had to mod TS3. Once the last release and patch was out I added some mods to add game play. (What can I say?....I like murder mysteries and true crime. )
If I had the problems with TS3 that I have with TS4 there is no doubt in my mind that I would have been very vocal in the forum and more than likely not bought TS4.
I actually like Barnacle Bay. Yep...I do. I've spent a lot of hours playing there and remaking the world....and saying that brings up some of "what's wrong with TS4 for me.
For me it's not about toddlers. It would be very nice for family players, but it's not breaking my heart. I miss my tool box....esp. the world editor and the fact that I can edit so little of TS4 worlds. I'm stuck with the backgrounds and I can't edit all parts of TS4 worlds and make them my own.
I love CAS and the team gets kudos from me for their gender patch....but it's not enough to make up for the fact that the Sims themselves are so shallow. There is little difference in their personalities and so many interactions are broken or missing.
There have been things broken for a long time and recently we're actually been told that some of these are actually "working as intended?. So if I don't want Sims to disappear or get amnesia I need to go to a third party to fix it?
Do I expect EA to apologize? Not really. Then again publicly they don't see anything wrong. But maybe, just maybe, that after two years someone, somewhere might take notice and take a closer look at what's going on.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
@luthienrising They've said why? What am I missing? Are you're referring to the toddlers/pools/basements statement?
And what does that mean for pets and weather? You know, at this point, I need EA to come out and say, we will not have XYZ in the game, ever. It's not possible. I would be ok with that, but if EA knows that they will not have certain features, and they're not telling customers, just to continue making a buck off of them, that's dishonest.
Has EA ever made an official statement saying that there will NEVER be cars, toddlers, pets, or seasons?
There've been multiple explanations in the forum over the months. Unfortunately, I didn't bookmark them, and the forum search for anything of the sort turns up waaaaay too much to wade through. Maybe someone else has it all bookmarked.
Look, I've known you for a while on this forum, and while I see you as someone who is very supportive EA, TS4, etc., I also consider you a very smart person, who also happens to be very good with computers, much better than I am.
And, you know as well as I do, that there is not one official statement from EA that says: There will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ. Not one.
Let's bury the myth that all those asking for answers are just not smart enough to read, or to comprehend, or to research. It's insulting to people who keep asking EA questions, that have stayed unanswered. You cannot treat customers like pesky flies and turn around and ask for respect in return. That's not how real life works.
The same questions have been asked a million times. The same questions have been ignored by EA. All it takes for EA is a simple yes or no. Someone at EA decided that silence would make pesky questions go away, and this approach has not worked in their favor.
And every time someone raises questions on this forum, you see people coming to EA's defense. Why? This is who you're defending:
Electronic Arts Reports Q3 FY16 Financial Results
Delivers Record Quarterly Operating Cash Flow of $889 Million
$889 million record quarterly cash flow for Q3 FY2016. Does EA really need any more defending?
How about customers who saved their pennies to help generate that number? Don't you think that those customers could use somebody to defend them? Don't you think that their voices should be heard, even though they don't have a PR team behind them? Don't you think that they deserve that same "respect" that people love to cite when anyone speaks ill of EA? A corporation with $889 million cash flow?
Who made this success happen for EA? You don't think that customers are the reason why game developers have jobs in the first place, or why companies like EA exist, or any companies for that matter?
Who needs defending in this picture? Do you really think it's EA?
"Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning." - William Henry Gates III
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen.
We can argue the genre of game another time.
But this whole thread is about the genre of the game, and why we feel this particular reiteration deviates from what it used to be. I'm not a huge fan of using mods either, and although TS3 certainly had a lot of bugs they should've fixed better, we still have the unfixed-bugs-issue with TS4 - just that on top of that, we now have a game that is fundamentally lacking in basic content as well.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen.
We can argue the genre of game another time.
Honestly as far as I am concerned, the bugs in TS3 such as car spawning and my missing butler (due to WA travel bug which btw I never had WA) kept me from buying more of TS3. Just like relationship culling and relationship decay will keep me from continuing to buy for this game. I do have some lines, and sometimes game companies cross them with either by how they treat consumers or by their shoddy work.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Has EA ever made an official statement saying that there will NEVER be cars, toddlers, pets, or seasons?
Nope.
And I think that is why some players are annoyed as they have never actually said 'no' to anything...
And that's why I've stopped spending.
If they can't tell me if toddlers will be in the game, I can't spend any money on the game.
I am also concerned about seasonal weather, culling, and I am wondering what else this series can't do.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen.
We can argue the genre of game another time.
But this whole thread is about the genre of the game, and why we feel this particular reiteration deviates from what it used to be. I'm not a huge fan of using mods either, and although TS3 certainly had a lot of bugs they should've fixed better, we still have the unfixed-bugs-issue with TS4 - just that on top of that, we now have a game that is fundamentally lacking in basic content as well.
:P Q&A for Gamescom, it started out as. Just turned into a whole mess, largely a demand for toddlers (again, who would've thought. It also got folk an answer they were offended by). I can't be bothered. It's a subjective opinion. You want to argue it, be my guest, but I won't argue back. To me, it's like sitting there trying to argue what's better, black or white.
I play it much like I did TS3, so it can't have changed that much.
Has EA ever made an official statement saying that there will NEVER be cars, toddlers, pets, or seasons?
Nope.
And I think that is why some players are annoyed as they have never actually said 'no' to anything...
And that's why I've stopped spending.
If they can't tell me if toddlers will be in the game, I can't spend any money on the game.
I am also concerned about seasonal weather, culling, and I am wondering what else this series can't do.
Do you think it's more likely 'weather' will be in destination spots like OR rather than a full EP? I do, just like The Sims had. I'm not sure (no evidence to convince me other wise) weather is possible in this game without being in specific areas. Or I should call that seasons and a destination for snow events, one for rainy events etc or maybe not rain at all.
ETA: My suspicions are more or less confirmed (to me) because SGDaniel said swimming in existing ocean worlds was 'unlikely' and they would have to create the terrain well that would mean new place/world/spot and that means a destination to me. I'm not as naïve as gurus want to make me out to be by shutting down that thread.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got to jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen. Also, if you're using mods or a bazillion fixes then it's not the game you actually like but the mods (and fixes) that change it.
We can argue the genre of game another time.
I did not and still do not use a single mod. I fixed my game.
I agree I should not had to, but the fact remained I wanted to enjoy playing my game - so I could sit there screaming about it - or find the solutions to fixing it. So I did. I did not stop there I also wrote many articles on step by step instructions to help other players fix there own games as well. Another simmer took all my many hours of hard work and gathered them all together and posted them in a thread to help others. So I did not just do it for me.
I worked with that simmer many time when new issues cropped up helping others even when I did not have their issues - find solutions. The fact remains they were fixable - but were a lot of work and I highly doubt Maxis could have gotten the okay to rework every single world and reissue them to the players - as to why we never received official fixes. I can't say for sure that is why but it seems logically an answer I suspect. But done right - no mods are needed.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Let's bury the myth that all those asking for answers are just not smart enough to read, or to comprehend, or to research. It's insulting to people who keep asking EA questions, that have stayed unanswered. You cannot treat customers like pesky flies and turn around and ask for respect in return. That's not how real life works.
The same questions have been asked a million times. The same questions have been ignored by EA. All it takes for EA is a simple yes or no. Someone at EA decided that silence would make pesky questions go away, and this approach has not worked in their favor.
And every time someone raises questions on this forum, you see people coming to EA's defense. Why? This is who you're defending:
Electronic Arts Reports Q3 FY16 Financial Results
Delivers Record Quarterly Operating Cash Flow of $889 Million
$889 million record quarterly cash flow for Q3 FY2016. Does EA really need any more defending?
How about customers who saved their pennies to help generate that number? Don't you think that those customers could use somebody to defend them? Don't you think that their voices should be heard, even though they don't have a PR team behind them?
^ This!
I totally agree with you, it's beyond me how some people seem to think EA needs to be defended because they're just "doing their best to keep us happy". No, just like any other big (and often small) company in the world, what EA defends is its own wallet. And it doesn't really matter to them whether people are ultimately happy with the product they've spent their money on, or not. As long as the money's in at the end of the day. Just look at their whole DLC strategy, it's unnerving.
You know, technically, DLC should be added content to a game that should be entirely playable and enjoyable without it.
DLC enhances the experience, yes, but if you're going to put out a product for 60 or more, the customer's basic expectation rightly is that he/she can play that game without having to shell out lots of extra cash to complete it with DLC. DLC, in short, should add to an already existing & finished base game, not complete it afterwards.
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
The game should be playable from the start on its own. But every single time you turn around something else breaks. Even changing a simple phone cover causes the phone not to work for any of the sims. Then you have to fiddle with that. Mods should never have to fix the game. They should only enhance it. Mods that fix things are not a excuse to continue putting out a poor product.
@luthienrising They've said why? What am I missing? Are you're referring to the toddlers/pools/basements statement?
And what does that mean for pets and weather? You know, at this point, I need EA to come out and say, we will not have XYZ in the game, ever. It's not possible. I would be ok with that, but if EA knows that they will not have certain features, and they're not telling customers, just to continue making a buck off of them, that's dishonest.
Has EA ever made an official statement saying that there will NEVER be cars, toddlers, pets, or seasons?
There've been multiple explanations in the forum over the months. Unfortunately, I didn't bookmark them, and the forum search for anything of the sort turns up waaaaay too much to wade through. Maybe someone else has it all bookmarked.
May I ask you a serious question? Not to point you out but seriously curious. Why do you enter every thread (if you aren't aware) to defend EA, Maxis and gurus who sometimes blatantly insult customers. EA is famous for this if you don't know their long seedy history. Just ask anyone who was ever insulted by an employee of EA's whether that was from Maxis, FIFA, SC, or those other MMO forums. It's known and widely known. Why do you think Andrew Wilson made a public statement about EA's bad reputation and from now on, (after he took over as CEO) things would change and no longer would 'customers' feel like they were last but would be first. There must have been a reason behind it. And there is, EA's reputation. You seem to spend hours researching proof to debunk anything anyone ever says no matter if it's just their 'opinion' or if that is how they really 'feel'. It doesn't stop you from playing and enjoying a game so I can't quite grasp why you feel you need to be Maxis' or EA's Don Quixote and go out and fight Maxis/EA windmills. Because you still have your game and you can still play so being EA's researcher isn't really helping those who are negative and unhappy get their games fixed, or things implemented or changed to suit them. It's really baffling why someone (a fan) would spend so much time running down quotes and defending EA and or Maxis or any of their other franchises. That won't make players happy, a better game makes players happy. Not nonsensical trivia.
I'm not defending, I'm explaining, on particular things. I look stuff like the regulations up because I'm personally curious about stuff like that and enjoy learning it. The business world, economics, law, and data stuff generally intrigue me, have for years now - if I weren't deep into a second career already and paying my kids' tuition, I'd be back in school, though more likely for economics or stats than law (a friend my age went back for law - it's tough to get started as a new lawyer no matter how much other experience you have). It really does not take hours if you spend enough time doing it anyway (which I do, sometimes for work, sometimes just because it's lunch, which I save the business section of paper for). Mostly, I've answered to stuff about this particular regulation lately because I've been asked to, after having gotten my head around it out of curiosity in the first place.
You know, you could have phrased that question more nicely. How about you just put me on Ignore, since you are so offended by the fact that I choose to acquire and share this particular area of knowledge? Other people seem to have appreciated that someone chose to make the effort so they didn't have to.
I don't want to put you on ignore I would have months ago. I like to listen to everyone even if I may never agree with them. That is the sort of person I am even if it doesn't appear to be so, here. I don't need a 'safe space' I like to engage in discussions and good, healthy debates, and sometimes yes, those can get heated but everyone deserves to be heard in my book. And I was just curious and I may have pointed out you do enter threads and do defend some things, but I suppose that is your freedom to do that. Just as much as it is mine to explain for the hundredth time how they could make this game better. And from the bottom of my heart, I hope you do go back to school and make your dreams come true.
Thank you. It would be a huge endeavour, though. I've forgotten all my calculus and most of my algebra from 30+ years ago. Though I suppose if I were to win a lottery, I could hire a tutor to help me catch up again.
Oh! And buy a serious gaming laptop just to play the Sims in the living room. That would be fun
Back to today's not so much fun work.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen.
We can argue the genre of game another time.
But this whole thread is about the genre of the game, and why we feel this particular reiteration deviates from what it used to be. I'm not a huge fan of using mods either, and although TS3 certainly had a lot of bugs they should've fixed better, we still have the unfixed-bugs-issue with TS4 - just that on top of that, we now have a game that is fundamentally lacking in basic content as well.
:P Q&A for Gamescom, it started out as. Just turned into a whole mess, largely a demand for toddlers (again, who would've thought. It also got folk an answer they were offended by). I can't be bothered. It's a subjective opinion. You want to argue it, be my guest, but I won't argue back. To me, it's like sitting there trying to argue what's better, black or white.
I play it much like I did TS3, so it can't have changed that much.
Let me know when kids in this game stop being mini adults and wanting a mud bath, and actually get up and go outside to play tag, play with the sprinklers, or play hide and seek instead of leaning back in the hot tub wishing they were at a spa.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
@luthienrising I understand completely, both legally and logically, why there are reasons not to announce what may or may not be coming. However what is the reasoning behind not acknowledging the things that are broken and when or if they will/can be fixed? Maybe questions like is it possible to add a world editor? Is it possible to ever create a CAW program? Is it even possible to stop culling?
These are the things I'd really like to know.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
As far as I'm concerned, you can't sit there and be outraged now that they don't listen, if you haven't been outraged at their not listening (and they do to a degree) since the beginning of TS3. It's a contradiction in terms. Doesn't matter how awesome the game might be or not. The same solution should apply. You either stand there screaming about it, or you try and find a way of fixing it. If you can't fix it then you accept it, but you can't be outraged for something they've been doing for years.
@luthienrising They've said why? What am I missing? Are you're referring to the toddlers/pools/basements statement?
And what does that mean for pets and weather? You know, at this point, I need EA to come out and say, we will not have XYZ in the game, ever. It's not possible. I would be ok with that, but if EA knows that they will not have certain features, and they're not telling customers, just to continue making a buck off of them, that's dishonest.
Has EA ever made an official statement saying that there will NEVER be cars, toddlers, pets, or seasons?
All it takes for EA is a simple yes or no.
But can we even be sure that their "yes" (if so) would be true? I mean, we all know how tricky EA is. So I just imagine them saying "yes, we'll add toddlers, seasons, etc. etc. in the game" but eventually we will not have them still. And what will they say? Probably something like "well, we've told you that things might not work out" or "our plans have changed" and we'll just be there with nothing of what was promised.
I just feel like I won't even believe any official statements. As they will ever happen, tho...
Sorry, I failed with this quote feature but can't edit the post. Still a newbie trying to understand how exactly it works.
@SimmieSims , that's what I wanted to tell you:
But can we even be sure that their "yes" (if so) would be true? I mean, we all know how tricky EA is. So I just imagine them saying "yes, we'll add toddlers, seasons, etc. etc. in the game" but eventually we will not have them still. And what will they say? Probably something like "well, we've told you that things might not work out" or "our plans have changed" and we'll just be there with nothing of what was promised.
I just feel like I won't even believe any official statements. As they will ever happen, tho...
@SimmieSims I am not defending anybody (except today, it seems, myself). The only thing I have done recently that seems to annoy some people is to add some detail to the explanations that SimGurus, not me, gave about the regulations that prevent them, as a publicly traded company, from saying certain things - detail I looked up because it was a set of regulations I didn't know about, and I was interested in knowing more. It doesn't matter how much money a company has: it can't just wish away those regulations. I suppose that EA could take itself private - buy out all the stockholders - and no longer have to abide by those regulations. But then it wouldn't have that money to put into development. I've explained earlier some ways in which those regulations are in consumers' interest, not against us; I'm not going to repeat myself.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
@mattandphilsims2 excellent video btw, thanks a lot for making it & sharing it with the community! You're absolutely right about their weird way of focusing on what their customers do / say / interpret wrong instead of on what they could actually do to fix the problems they're talking about. And yes, that "expiration date" comment really got to me as well. It was perhaps one of the most offensive sentences in there, because when my customers ask me to do something, and I don't comply for months, I don't end up turning it against them saying "look, I know this project was important to you and your concerns are valid, but hey, your whining's got an expiration date, so pay me for what I did cause I sure as plum ain't gonna do what you've asked me to do from the very beginning." .......... ?
Also I don't know who of you's been following the "Should The Sims 4 End Here" thread, but it recently got reopened after being closed, with this particularly interesting disclaimer:
I'm reopening this thread, but please keep the following in mind:
We're all here because we love The Sims, and all opinions are welcome; our only caveat is that posts must be respectfully expressed and on-topic with the thread. To make sure that a post is respectful and on-topic, go through this list of my golden rules:
If you are posting about a person in the thread, you should not click "Post comment"
If you are posting negative comments about any person or organization, you should not click "Post comment"
As much as we all love a good meme image, if that is the content of your post, you should not click "Post comment"
If your post doesn't meet this criteria, remember that not posting on a particular topic is always an option.
We will be monitoring this thread, and further disruption will probably result in it permanently being closed.
Are these people kidding us? What exactly do "negative comments about an organization" entail? Does this mean we shouldn't be critical anymore, as clearly they think a lot of us who're trying to be constructively critical (up to a point at least) are spreading negativity and being whiny customers? Afaik you're very well allowed to say something negative about EA on most other forums, but maybe I'm wrong... It says a lot about what kind of "freedom of expression" they'd prefer to see in our posts. lol
Calling people and/or the company who makes the game, or it's parent company lazy. as an example. Comments that they're only in it for the money, and so on.
You can be critical without being insulting, which is how these threads turn out (taking this one as an example). No, they don't. They're asking you to consider what will happen if the game doesn't become what you want, imo (My opinion only but people have taken it way too personally). You don't have 'freedom of expression' on a forum. It's limited to whatever that forums rules are.
To add: There's a difference between:
You plums aren't putting in what I want. Get off your lazy behinds and do it now. If you can't do it, I want to know why and I want to know why now. Don't tell me you can't say, that you'll be fired, arrested and sued. I don't want excuses. Just get it done!
and
I was thinking and I really think <feature> would be a good addition to this game because <reason>. Would you give consideration to this. Thanks
I know you weren't talking to me but I'm going to interject this. I've spent two years explaining what I think some of the shortcomings are and what could improve it for me. I've never called any one lazy...in fact to best of my ability I can't even remember saying any of the staff didn't care about what fans wanted. I'm not the only one who has done this and it's still all business as usual.
As far as EA. They are not being altruistic when they create games. They are in it for the income. They have stockholders to satisfy.
The thing that I'll say is in this case it doesn't feel like they are particularly concerned about how we, as consumers, feel. That's not a good feeling for someone who has given them money in the past and wishes the product was still good enough to keep buying from them.
Here's the thing, and part of the reason I don't get the outrage when they say that our complaints have an expiration date, which I get, they've never cared how we as consumers feel, not really. They've never gone out of their way to fix what we thought what was wrong. Ranging from 'vacation or staycation' in the first town we paid for (name escapes me) something Bay, that a whole bunch of people brought believing that it could be used as another WA world, to the hot air balloon that went up a minute amount in the air, to the store town with one nice looking lawn in winter, the cars that got stuck everywhere, the issues with Isla Paradiso and the city town (name escapes me again), which some couldn't play. And the list goes on.
Never have they once gone "Oh, yes, well, with TS3 we slipped up. We'll issue fixes. We'll do better with TS4". And now when it's confirmed that they'll only listen to the complaints for a limited time, we've got outrage, really? What? Where were you lot over the past 7 years?
The absence of toddlers and other 'missing items', along with a little bit of misunderstanding at launch isn't going to make them apologise or fix anything now either. You're mistaken if you believe it will happen if you shout loud enough.
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen.
We can argue the genre of game another time.
But this whole thread is about the genre of the game, and why we feel this particular reiteration deviates from what it used to be. I'm not a huge fan of using mods either, and although TS3 certainly had a lot of bugs they should've fixed better, we still have the unfixed-bugs-issue with TS4 - just that on top of that, we now have a game that is fundamentally lacking in basic content as well.
:P Q&A for Gamescom, it started out as. Just turned into a whole mess, largely a demand for toddlers (again, who would've thought. It also got folk an answer they were offended by). I can't be bothered. It's a subjective opinion. You want to argue it, be my guest, but I won't argue back. To me, it's like sitting there trying to argue what's better, black or white.
I play it much like I did TS3, so it can't have changed that much.
Let me know when kids in this game stop being mini adults and wanting a mud bath, and actually get up and go outside to play tag, play with the sprinklers, or play hide and seek instead of leaning back in the hot tub wishing they were at a spa.
Mine only played tag when I wasn't looking, so the absence of that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Had them play catch a fair amount so I miss that. Same applies for the sprinklers. You'd turn around to do something unrelated and a sim'd have their backside in the thing. Drove me nuts, and is possibly why I'm not big on gardening in the sims.
Comments
I have worked in a few places where the new boss always comes in to 'fix the previous manager's mistakes'
Within a few weeks though the new boss could be as bad, if not worse than the previous which leaves me thinking 'how on Earth do these people get the job?'
Where were we lot - we were busy fixing our own darn games because maybe there was issues but the big difference is even the player could rework the entire game practically and fix the problems that plagued most of the worlds that had issues. As most of the issues were due to routing in many cases (holes in the maps routing grid), a couple of issues with a couple of the rabbithole buildings (remove them fixes that), and a few families with issues like the Scotts in IP (make them leave or kill them off), abandoned car issues - get rid of parking lots. But because it was possible to totally remake any world or simply make your own or move things out - rebuild - redo, in Sims 3 we did not have to live with the issues permanently. But Sims 4 - we cannot add toddlers, have proper cemeteries, or do any of the missing as they require programming in the game to fix any of Sims 4s issues - never mind be unable to do anything at all worth doing outside of you own lot. So much for the creativity the Sims is also very much known for. The Sims was a life simulation with endless creativity - it is not that any more. It's something else and definitely not fixable by the player.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Good question from a consumer point of view. But probably great for their own purse and EA making billions.
And to quote quite a few people 'You shouldn't have to use mods, or go through a whole bunch of fixes to make the game playable'. You can't have it both ways. It's either ultra awesome that you've got to jump a bazillion hoops to make a game more playable, or it's terrible and shouldn't happen. Also, if you're using mods or a bazillion fixes then it's not the game you actually like but the mods (and fixes) that change it.
We can argue the genre of game another time.
I have no answers for some of the things you talked about because I seem to be in the minority when it comes to TS3.....although I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
I never had to mod TS3. Once the last release and patch was out I added some mods to add game play. (What can I say?....I like murder mysteries and true crime. )
If I had the problems with TS3 that I have with TS4 there is no doubt in my mind that I would have been very vocal in the forum and more than likely not bought TS4.
I actually like Barnacle Bay. Yep...I do. I've spent a lot of hours playing there and remaking the world....and saying that brings up some of "what's wrong with TS4 for me.
For me it's not about toddlers. It would be very nice for family players, but it's not breaking my heart. I miss my tool box....esp. the world editor and the fact that I can edit so little of TS4 worlds. I'm stuck with the backgrounds and I can't edit all parts of TS4 worlds and make them my own.
I love CAS and the team gets kudos from me for their gender patch....but it's not enough to make up for the fact that the Sims themselves are so shallow. There is little difference in their personalities and so many interactions are broken or missing.
There have been things broken for a long time and recently we're actually been told that some of these are actually "working as intended?. So if I don't want Sims to disappear or get amnesia I need to go to a third party to fix it?
Do I expect EA to apologize? Not really. Then again publicly they don't see anything wrong. But maybe, just maybe, that after two years someone, somewhere might take notice and take a closer look at what's going on.
Look, I've known you for a while on this forum, and while I see you as someone who is very supportive EA, TS4, etc., I also consider you a very smart person, who also happens to be very good with computers, much better than I am.
And, you know as well as I do, that there is not one official statement from EA that says: There will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ. Not one.
Let's bury the myth that all those asking for answers are just not smart enough to read, or to comprehend, or to research. It's insulting to people who keep asking EA questions, that have stayed unanswered. You cannot treat customers like pesky flies and turn around and ask for respect in return. That's not how real life works.
The same questions have been asked a million times. The same questions have been ignored by EA. All it takes for EA is a simple yes or no. Someone at EA decided that silence would make pesky questions go away, and this approach has not worked in their favor.
And every time someone raises questions on this forum, you see people coming to EA's defense. Why? This is who you're defending:
Electronic Arts Reports Q3 FY16 Financial Results
Delivers Record Quarterly Operating Cash Flow of $889 Million
$889 million record quarterly cash flow for Q3 FY2016. Does EA really need any more defending?
How about customers who saved their pennies to help generate that number? Don't you think that those customers could use somebody to defend them? Don't you think that their voices should be heard, even though they don't have a PR team behind them? Don't you think that they deserve that same "respect" that people love to cite when anyone speaks ill of EA? A corporation with $889 million cash flow?
Who made this success happen for EA? You don't think that customers are the reason why game developers have jobs in the first place, or why companies like EA exist, or any companies for that matter?
Who needs defending in this picture? Do you really think it's EA?
But this whole thread is about the genre of the game, and why we feel this particular reiteration deviates from what it used to be. I'm not a huge fan of using mods either, and although TS3 certainly had a lot of bugs they should've fixed better, we still have the unfixed-bugs-issue with TS4 - just that on top of that, we now have a game that is fundamentally lacking in basic content as well.
Honestly as far as I am concerned, the bugs in TS3 such as car spawning and my missing butler (due to WA travel bug which btw I never had WA) kept me from buying more of TS3. Just like relationship culling and relationship decay will keep me from continuing to buy for this game. I do have some lines, and sometimes game companies cross them with either by how they treat consumers or by their shoddy work.
And that's why I've stopped spending.
If they can't tell me if toddlers will be in the game, I can't spend any money on the game.
I am also concerned about seasonal weather, culling, and I am wondering what else this series can't do.
:P Q&A for Gamescom, it started out as. Just turned into a whole mess, largely a demand for toddlers (again, who would've thought. It also got folk an answer they were offended by). I can't be bothered. It's a subjective opinion. You want to argue it, be my guest, but I won't argue back. To me, it's like sitting there trying to argue what's better, black or white.
I play it much like I did TS3, so it can't have changed that much.
Do you think it's more likely 'weather' will be in destination spots like OR rather than a full EP? I do, just like The Sims had. I'm not sure (no evidence to convince me other wise) weather is possible in this game without being in specific areas. Or I should call that seasons and a destination for snow events, one for rainy events etc or maybe not rain at all.
ETA: My suspicions are more or less confirmed (to me) because SGDaniel said swimming in existing ocean worlds was 'unlikely' and they would have to create the terrain well that would mean new place/world/spot and that means a destination to me. I'm not as naïve as gurus want to make me out to be by shutting down that thread.
I did not and still do not use a single mod. I fixed my game.
I agree I should not had to, but the fact remained I wanted to enjoy playing my game - so I could sit there screaming about it - or find the solutions to fixing it. So I did. I did not stop there I also wrote many articles on step by step instructions to help other players fix there own games as well. Another simmer took all my many hours of hard work and gathered them all together and posted them in a thread to help others. So I did not just do it for me.
I worked with that simmer many time when new issues cropped up helping others even when I did not have their issues - find solutions. The fact remains they were fixable - but were a lot of work and I highly doubt Maxis could have gotten the okay to rework every single world and reissue them to the players - as to why we never received official fixes. I can't say for sure that is why but it seems logically an answer I suspect. But done right - no mods are needed.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
^ This!
I totally agree with you, it's beyond me how some people seem to think EA needs to be defended because they're just "doing their best to keep us happy". No, just like any other big (and often small) company in the world, what EA defends is its own wallet. And it doesn't really matter to them whether people are ultimately happy with the product they've spent their money on, or not. As long as the money's in at the end of the day. Just look at their whole DLC strategy, it's unnerving.
You know, technically, DLC should be added content to a game that should be entirely playable and enjoyable without it.
DLC enhances the experience, yes, but if you're going to put out a product for 60 or more, the customer's basic expectation rightly is that he/she can play that game without having to shell out lots of extra cash to complete it with DLC. DLC, in short, should add to an already existing & finished base game, not complete it afterwards.
FWIW, I assume that they haven't said there will never be cars, toddlers, pets, seasons, or XYZ in the game because those things could come to the game. (The first four have also been included in surveys, and the game is only just approaching two years into what previously has been a five-year cycle.) And FWIW, we got pets two and two and half years into Sims 2 and 3, respectively; we got weather three and three and a half years in. Cars and toddlers would be similarly intensive design and development jobs, so I don't expect that if we are going to get all those things, it's going to happen all at once. Additions will likely to be spread over the life of the game, like always. I hope you get the ones you want instead of being told they're never coming.
Thank you. It would be a huge endeavour, though. I've forgotten all my calculus and most of my algebra from 30+ years ago. Though I suppose if I were to win a lottery, I could hire a tutor to help me catch up again.
Oh! And buy a serious gaming laptop just to play the Sims in the living room. That would be fun
Back to today's not so much fun work.
Let me know when kids in this game stop being mini adults and wanting a mud bath, and actually get up and go outside to play tag, play with the sprinklers, or play hide and seek instead of leaning back in the hot tub wishing they were at a spa.
I read the same post that Graham linked to and did you also note none of that goes fully into effect until 2018? Yes the GAP/NONGAP reporting does go into affect shortly - but the rules by what the Sims 4 is being made at present is using language not in affect until 2018 regardless. Only accounting right now has a concern - which by the way is not even covered in that writ but I was made aware of it on the Stock market and the August Conference Call for EA even before this discussion.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
These are the things I'd really like to know.
Simple.
@SimmieSims , that's what I wanted to tell you:
But can we even be sure that their "yes" (if so) would be true? I mean, we all know how tricky EA is. So I just imagine them saying "yes, we'll add toddlers, seasons, etc. etc. in the game" but eventually we will not have them still. And what will they say? Probably something like "well, we've told you that things might not work out" or "our plans have changed" and we'll just be there with nothing of what was promised.
I just feel like I won't even believe any official statements. As they will ever happen, tho...
I noticed and I am a bit perplexed by that tbh. It seems Maxis have self-imposed this by choice rather early...?
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
Mine only played tag when I wasn't looking, so the absence of that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Had them play catch a fair amount so I miss that. Same applies for the sprinklers. You'd turn around to do something unrelated and a sim'd have their backside in the thing. Drove me nuts, and is possibly why I'm not big on gardening in the sims.